KG (almost same age as Duncan) dropped 28pts 18rbs tonight, Duncan couldn't do 1/2

[Basketball Power]

It's sad to see how much better KG right now then TD, pathetic almost. TD couldn't even pull out 1 20pt game in the playoffs while getting serious minutes, and don't talk about touches, when he gets the ball he gets bullied

[dbreiden83080]

And KG is where compared to Duncan in terms of legacy?

KG is like the 20th best of his generation..

[peskypesky]

zzzzzzz

[ChumpDumper]

lol power

[LnGrrrR]

And KG is where compared to Duncan in terms of legacy?

KG is like the 20th best of his generation..

Name ten.

[SinBAD]

boy you're dumb obviosuly.Who is KG playing against?Chris bush and joel Anothony?Seriously.2 bad defenders.Did you see what Pau did to KG last year?Duncan played against Marc Gasol and Randolph 2 huge bodies on a team that bangs a lot.His overall numbers are still better than KG

[dbreiden83080]

Name ten.

There are like 7 in the playoffs alone... 1 he is playing with..

[DesignatedT]

Name ten.

Only 1 matters. Duncan>>>>KG and it isn't even close.

[dbreiden83080]

There are like 7 in the playoffs alone... 1 he is playing with..

Check that

2 he is playing with..

[LnGrrrR]

There are like 7 in the playoffs alone... 1 he is playing with..

Name 7 then.

[LnGrrrR]

Check that

2 he is playing with..

You think Ray Allen and Paul Pierce's careers are better than KGs overall?

[LnGrrrR]

Only 1 matters. Duncan>>>>KG and it isn't even close.

Ain't close how? Statistically speaking or ring-wise?

[GSH]

For most of his career, Duncan outweighed Garnett by at least 50 pounds. Garnett played a finesse game, and didn't spend every night getting beaten on by the biggest guy on the opposing team. It took a toll on Tim's knees. And when Tim played through some injuries, to help the team win, it took even more of a toll on his knees.

Duncan has just under 7,000 minutes in playoff games. Garnett has just under 4,000. That's A LOT more wear and tear.

Over the last several seasons, Garnett has had guys like Big Baby, Kendrick Perkins, Rasheed Wallace, and Leon Powe to help him out around the basket. And Paul Pierce and Ray Allen on the outside, to keep them from collapsing on him. If Duncan had more help over the years, he wouldn't have so much hard mileage.

Most of all... what's your fucking point? There's no rule that says Boston can't take on one new fan. Go watch Garnett.

[LnGrrrR]

Over the last several seasons, Garnett has had guys like Big Baby, Kendrick Perkins, Rasheed Wallace, and Leon Powe to help him out around the basket. And Paul Pierce and Ray Allen on the outside, to keep them from collapsing on him. If Duncan had more help over the years, he wouldn't have so much hard mileage.

Yeah. Too bad Spurs only had Manu, Parker, D-Rob...

[Sean Cagney]

Blahhhhhhhhhh. Tim has played alot longer as far as mins go in the playoffs and went deeper almost every year until the last few.

[dbreiden83080]

Name 7 then.

Duncan
Shaq
Pierce
Kobe
Allen (Not far behind KG)

Wade
Lebron (Not totally his generation but have already had better careers than KG IMO

So there is 6 1/2 ..

KG was never much more than a jump-shooter who could not take Minnesota anywhere in a decade..

[dbreiden83080]

You think Ray Allen and Paul Pierce's careers are better than KGs overall?

Pierce and Shaq

duh..

[LnGrrrR]

Duncan
Shaq
Pierce - How is Pierce's career better?
Kobe
Allen (Not far behind KG) - But he's still behind him? That defeats your point

Wade (Not his generation)
Lebron (Not totally his generation but have already had better careers than KG IMO

So there is 6 1/2 ..

KG was never much more than a jump-shooter who could not take Minnesota anywhere in a decade..

So you said there were 20, and so far, you've been able to name 3 that fit. Only four more! You can do this.

[LnGrrrR]

Pierce and Shaq

duh..

Sorry, I forgot Shaq for a moment. He hasn't played in awhile (barring tonight) after all.

[GSH]

Yeah. Too bad Spurs only had Manu, Parker, D-Rob...

Ummm... you're a Celtics fan, right? And I tipped my hat to the talent the team has. Take a chill pill.

D-Rob was at the end of his career, and was only there for the beginning of Tim's. Since then, the best help Tim has had inside was probably McDyess - who was also at the end of his career. Manu has spent a lot of time injured in the last several years, and Tony does most of his damage in the paint, which doesn't exactly pull defenders very far from Tim.

Tim took a lot more abuse over the years than Garnett. They played a different style game. That's no knock on Garnett, it's just the reason why Tim's knees are old, compared to Garnett's. That plus carrying an extra 50-60 pounds up and down the floor. Bigger body, more wear and tear. Surely this isn't the first time you've heard anyone discuss that?

Now take another chill pill.

[LnGrrrR]

Ummm... you're a Celtics fan, right? And I tipped my hat to the talent the team has. Take a chill pill.

D-Rob was at the end of his career, and was only there for the beginning of Tim's. Since then, the best help Tim has had inside was probably McDyess - who was also at the end of his career. Manu has spent a lot of time injured in the last several years, and Tony does most of his damage in the paint, which doesn't exactly pull defenders very far from Tim.

Tim took a lot more abuse over the years than Garnett. They played a different style game. That's no knock on Garnett, it's just the reason why Tim's knees are old, compared to Garnett's. That plus carrying an extra 50-60 pounds up and down the floor. Bigger body, more wear and tear. Surely this isn't the first time you've heard anyone discuss that?

Now take another chill pill.

I'm not saying that KG is better than TD. I'm just saying that Dbreiden's assertion that he's maybe in the Top 20 of his generation is laughable.

And I think TD has had at least as much help as KG has had, but your comment on different style games is true.

[Proxy]

You guys are acting a fool. Without KG, Boston doesn't compete.

And give credit where it's due. KG has aged better than TD has.... doesn't mean he's better overall in terms of career ranking, but he's better right now.... he's meaner and more motivated too, bitches.

[Proxy]

Shaq and TD are interchangeable.... then Kobe and Dirk.... then KG at 5 for the post-MJ era

[Bill_Brasky]

Do you guys think KG could do that against Gasol/Randolph?

It still saddens me that TD looked so bad against those guys. Prime Timmy woulda shitted all over 'em.

[Cane]

Tonight was one hell of a game for KG but lets not forget his relatively unimpressive Games 1 and 2, first game he had something like 6 points and 8 boards in 37 mins.

Also the Miami Heat frontcourt really don't compare to the physical widebodies the Grizz have who are also making things difficult for OKC bigs such as Perkins and Ibaka.

[TD 21]

For most of his career, Duncan outweighed Garnett by at least 50 pounds. Garnett played a finesse game, and didn't spend every night getting beaten on by the biggest guy on the opposing team. It took a toll on Tim's knees. And when Tim played through some injuries, to help the team win, it took even more of a toll on his knees.

Duncan has just under 7,000 minutes in playoff games. Garnett has just under 4,000. That's A LOT more wear and tear.

Over the last several seasons, Garnett has had guys like Big Baby, Kendrick Perkins, Rasheed Wallace, and Leon Powe to help him out around the basket. And Paul Pierce and Ray Allen on the outside, to keep them from collapsing on him. If Duncan had more help over the years, he wouldn't have so much hard mileage.

Most of all... what's your fucking point? There's no rule that says Boston can't take on one new fan. Go watch Garnett.

"At least 50 pounds"? According to their listings, the biggest difference between them was 28 pounds (248 to 220). That was when they were young. Then it was 7 pounds (260 to 253). Now it's 2 pounds (255 to 253). Garnett is also really 7-1 (it's been said many times), not 6-11, like Duncan.

Because Duncan does center-like things, people act as if he's 7-1, 275. But in reality, he's smaller than Garnett and Nowitzki. He is the strongest of the three, but the point is, he played bigger than he actually was for years. And because he was so ridiculously dominant, this organization took him for granted and didn't get him proper help as he aged. Now we're seeing the effects of him having to carry far too heavy a load for too long. He played hard, grinding minutes, many of which came in the playoffs, which are harder minutes to begin with, for various reasons.

Nowadays, it oftentimes makes sense for Duncan to guard centers (not against true centers with skill, though), because of his declining mobility, but he's really a four and a half. The difference between him and guys like Garnett, Nowitzki and Gasol is, their teams never asked those guys to act as full time centers. In the case of Garnett and Nowitzki, they were never asked to act as even part time centers. They played far easier minutes. That's why Nowitzki in particular hasn't declined. Nothing he ever did lends itself to physical deterioration.

Even with a far heavier load and more hard miles on him, Duncan has drastically outperformed Garnett since he became a Celtic. Even this season, with Garnett supposedly bouncing back and Duncan having his worst season ever, he was still slightly better than him. The only two things Garnett has on Duncan are mid range shooting and face up defense.

[GSH]

I'm not saying that KG is better than TD. I'm just saying that Dbreiden's assertion that he's maybe in the Top 20 of his generation is laughable.

And I think TD has had at least as much help as KG has had, but your comment on different style games is true.

20 is still some rare company. I don't know the exact number, but I guess it depends on how you define "generation". You forget that Garnett got knocked out of the playoffs at least twice by Hakeem Olajuwan. Once by a Houston team that included Hakeem, Barkley, and Clyde Drexler. Garnett was in the league for at least half of Scottie Pippin's career, and a good part of Karl Malone's. If you accept those guys as part of KG's generation, he falls further down the list. I don't know how many more I could come up with, but there are more than a couple. (And that doesn't count the ones already mentioned in this thread.)

And as much as I respect Garnett's game, if it's a choice between him and Nowitzki, I'll take Dirk. I'd have to consider Nash, too, even though I still think it's a big man's game. Top 20 in his generation is a pretty amazing thing. Much more than that is pushing it.

[TheSpursFNRule]

wow, really really bad thread.

[LnGrrrR]

20 is still some rare company. I don't know the exact number, but I guess it depends on how you define "generation". You forget that Garnett got knocked out of the playoffs at least twice by Hakeem Olajuwan. Once by a Houston team that included Hakeem, Barkley, and Clyde Drexler. Garnett was in the league for at least half of Scottie Pippin's career, and a good part of Karl Malone's. If you accept those guys as part of KG's generation, he falls further down the list. I don't know how many more I could come up with, but there are more than a couple. (And that doesn't count the ones already mentioned in this thread.)

And as much as I respect Garnett's game, if it's a choice between him and Nowitzki, I'll take Dirk. I'd have to consider Nash, too, even though I still think it's a big man's game. Top 20 in his generation is a pretty amazing thing. Much more than that is pushing it.

Eh, I think basketball "generations" tend to be 5-7 years apart. When I think of generations, I think of star players who were in their prime together. (ie, Dirk, Kobe, KG, TD, etc etc). Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Jordan were part of a different generation (the late 80's/early 90s). You could argue that Jordan was part of two generations (the early/mid 80s, dominated by Bird/Magic) but he made his name in the late 80s/early 90s.

[daslicer]

Garnett had a few days off so he had more energy today. I will be impressed if the celtics play that well on Monday with just a day. Garnett has always had a better jumpshot then Duncan due to being a finesse player and that is why he has aged better then Duncan. Garnett relied heavily on that jumper so when he got old he could still shoot while Duncan never relied on jumpshooting thus once he got old his offensive game took a huge hit.

[NRHector]

Duncan played more playoffs game than KG. When Garnett went to the Celtics that's when he started playing more playoffs game. I don't think he played too many playoffs games when Garnett was in Minnesota.

[dbreiden83080]

So you said there were 20, and so far, you've been able to name 3 that fit. Only four more! You can do this.

If you really wanna get into this lets look at the last 20 years or so and tell me where KG ranks

Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan
Robinson
Ewing
Barkley
Malone
Kobe
Jordan
Pippen

Currently..

Wade
Lebron

Maybe 20 was harsh but he is nowhere near an all time great list and will never breath the elite all time air Duncan breathe's..

[LnGrrrR]

If you really wanna get into this lets look at the last 20 years or so and tell me where KG ranks

Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan
Robinson
Ewing
Barkley
Malone
Kobe
Jordan
Pippen

Currently..

Wade
Lebron

Maybe 20 was harsh but he is nowhere near an all time great list and will never breath the elite all time air Duncan breathe's..

:lol I don't think you can count NBA generations in 20 year intervals.

And sure, KG's lack of rings definitely hurts him. Won't deny that.

[dbreiden83080]

:lol I don't think you can count NBA generations in 20 year intervals.

And sure, KG's lack of rings definitely hurts him. Won't deny that.

My point was about Duncan

And Duncan is better than 90% of that list

KG not so much..

[dbreiden83080]

Duncan is easily top 10-12 all time

KG is maybe top 50..

[Kermit]

And KG is where compared to Duncan in terms of legacy?

KG is like the 20th best of his generation..

WTF? This is one of the stupidest things ever written on this site and that's saying a lot.

[dbreiden83080]

WTF? This is one of the stupidest things ever written on this site and that's saying a lot.

You don't visit very often then..

[Kermit]

No. It was fucking stupid.

[mystargtr34]

1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. KG
5. Dirk

That's the rankings for the post Jordan era IMO..

[drok210]

Garnett couldn't get 1/2 of Duncan's championships even with the help of two hall of famers. :toast

[mystargtr34]

That's not including guys like LeBron and Wade since they were borderline different era.. otherwise u can argue LeBron and Wade above Dirk and maybe KG

[Spurtacus]

It's sad to see how much better KG right now then TD, pathetic almost. TD couldn't even pull out 1 20pt game in the playoffs while getting serious minutes, and don't talk about touches, when he gets the ball he gets bullied

this thread is pathetic

[NickiRasgo]

lol

[TE]

"At least 50 pounds"? According to their listings, the biggest difference between them was 28 pounds (248 to 220). That was when they were young. Then it was 7 pounds (260 to 253). Now it's 2 pounds (255 to 253). Garnett is also really 7-1 (it's been said many times), not 6-11, like Duncan.

Because Duncan does center-like things, people act as if he's 7-1, 275. But in reality, he's smaller than Garnett and Nowitzki. He is the strongest of the three, but the point is, he played bigger than he actually was for years. And because he was so ridiculously dominant, this organization took him for granted and didn't get him proper help as he aged. Now we're seeing the effects of him having to carry far too heavy a load for too long. He played hard, grinding minutes, many of which came in the playoffs, which are harder minutes to begin with, for various reasons.

Nowadays, it oftentimes makes sense for Duncan to guard centers (not against true centers with skill, though), because of his declining mobility, but he's really a four and a half. The difference between him and guys like Garnett, Nowitzki and Gasol is, their teams never asked those guys to act as full time centers. In the case of Garnett and Nowitzki, they were never asked to act as even part time centers. They played far easier minutes. That's why Nowitzki in particular hasn't declined. Nothing he ever did lends itself to physical deterioration.

Even with a far heavier load and more hard miles on him, Duncan has drastically outperformed Garnett since he became a Celtic. Even this season, with Garnett supposedly bouncing back and Duncan having his worst season ever, he was still slightly better than him. The only two things Garnett has on Duncan are mid range shooting and face up defense.

/ thread.

[NewcastleKEG]

And KG is where compared to Duncan in terms of legacy?

KG is like the 20th best of his generation..
While I am a big Duncan > Shaq > Kobe homer

The gap is shrinking.

ESPN list in 2005, so before KG got his ring and anchored the 2 Finals appearances
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2074360

[NewcastleKEG]

1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. KG
5. Dirk

That's the rankings for the post Jordan era IMO..
Nash and his 2 MVP's still gotta put him above Dirk at the moment. A Finals appearance and I think you can rank Dirk above

Then you have the LeBron, Wade, Mello working up

[Capt Bringdown]

Sad to say, but Duncan won't be putting up those kinds of numbers in the playoffs ever again. Props to Garnett, a very impressive performance.

[Chief]

LOL easy to play fresh when for the better part of your career, you've only played until the first round of the playoffs, this topic is a joke.

[100%duncan]

4>>>>>1 fuck you

[ajballer4]

While I am a big Duncan > Shaq > Kobe homer

The gap is shrinking.

ESPN list in 2005, so before KG got his ring and anchored the 2 Finals appearances
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2074360

This is for best of all time? I cant take it seriously, with Amare almost cracking the top ten

[mingus]

KG's still very athletic & he has a great mid-range game. it's why he's been better than Duncan for the last 2 years. it's allowed him to play very effectively well into his 30's. every year before that though id' take Duncan.

[Proxy]

If you really wanna get into this lets look at the last 20 years or so and tell me where KG ranks

Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan
Robinson
Ewing
Barkley
Malone
Kobe
Jordan
Pippen

Currently..

Wade
Lebron

Maybe 20 was harsh but he is nowhere near an all time great list and will never breath the elite all time air Duncan breathe's..

WTF? This is weak shit. The majority of those players are MJ era. We are talking POST-MJ ERA.... this list is fucking dumb.

Shaq, TD, Kobe, Dirk, KG, Nash... these are the immortals of the passing generation.

[mingus]

post-mj era:

1a: Shaq
1b: Duncan

2: Kobe (his passenger seat championships don't mean shit).

3. KG
4. Nowitzki
5. Nash

[NewcastleKEG]

Garnett vs Robinson

Comparing their numbers - I'll give D.Rob a break and compare their best 7 consecutive seasons in the league (Both 24-30 yrs old)
(1989-96)Robinson: 25.5 PPG, 11.8 RPG, 3.08 APG, 1.68 SPG, 3.61 BPG
(2000-07)Garnett: 22.4 PPG, 12.8 RPG, 5.01 APG, 1.37 SPG, 1.67 BPG


Career Averages
(987 games)Robinson:21.1 PPG, 10.6 RPG, 2.5 APG, 1.4 SPG, 3.0 BPG
(1195 games)Garnett: 19.5 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 4.1 APG, 1.3 SPG, 1.5 BPG



Playoff Averages
(123 games)Robinson: 18.1 PPG, 10.6 RPG, 2.3 APG, 1.22 SPG, 2.53 BPG
(102 games)Garnett: 19.7 PPG, 11.1 RPG, 3.9 APG, 1.31 SPG, 1.40 BPG

[024]

everyone can say duncan was the overall superior player but no one can deny that KG has become a better than duncan currently. it's a sad fact.

[spurspokesman]

For most of his career, Duncan outweighed Garnett by at least 50 pounds. Garnett played a finesse game, and didn't spend every night getting beaten on by the biggest guy on the opposing team. It took a toll on Tim's knees. And when Tim played through some injuries, to help the team win, it took even more of a toll on his knees.

Duncan has just under 7,000 minutes in playoff games. Garnett has just under 4,000. That's A LOT more wear and tear.

Over the last several seasons, Garnett has had guys like Big Baby, Kendrick Perkins, Rasheed Wallace, and Leon Powe to help him out around the basket. And Paul Pierce and Ray Allen on the outside, to keep them from collapsing on him. If Duncan had more help over the years, he wouldn't have so much hard mileage.

Most of all... what's your fucking point? There's no rule that says Boston can't take on one new fan. Go watch Garnett.
This

[dbreiden83080]

WTF? This is weak shit. The majority of those players are MJ era. We are talking POST-MJ ERA.... this list is fucking dumb.

Shaq, TD, Kobe, Dirk, KG, Nash... these are the immortals of the passing generation.

KG was playing when most of those players were still in the NBA dumb-ass.. And what about Wade and Lebron they started their careers in 03 when KG was in his prime.. They both already are ahead of him.. I am mainly talking about Duncan's career compared to KG and he unlike KG can be viewed on the all time lists where it does not have to be broken down to era's.. I said before maybe KG is top 50

maybe.. Hell i would take Pippen over him in a heart-beat..

[Kyle Orton]

lol dbreiden
lol mmgay fan

[Greg Oden]

good god just when you think the guy that gets all hot and bothered watching sweaty men roll around can't top his other retarded posts, he does.

[dbreiden83080]

good god just when you think the guy that gets all hot and bothered watching sweaty men roll around can't top his other retarded posts, he does.


lol dbreiden
lol mmgay fan

Oh please stop trolls

I can't take it anymore..

[LnGrrrR]

KG>Wade

[Greg Oden]

Oh please stop trolls

I can't take it anymore..

who's the one trolling here, you retarded faggot? I'm not the one claiming KG is in the same generation as several players who were drafted 10+ years before him.

[dbreiden83080]

who's the one trolling here, you retarded faggot

That would be you..

[MateoNeygro]

Lol KG is def one of the top 5-10 big men of this decade easily. Not close to Duncan in rings so I'd give a huge edge to Duncan. =

[Greg Oden]

That would be you..

:lmao great retort.

KG is part of the same generation as players drafted in the 80s :lmao

[MateoNeygro]

Duncan has way more minutes thus having way more wear and tear. Plus Duncan played more of a physical role in his prime. Garnett has always been better facing up than banging inside end of story. However, Garnett is def top 10-20 of the past decade.

[Proxy]

KG was playing when most of those players were still in the NBA dumb-ass.. And what about Wade and Lebron they started their careers in 03 when KG was in his prime.. They both already are ahead of him.. I am mainly talking about Duncan's career compared to KG and he unlike KG can be viewed on the all time lists where it does not have to be broken down to era's.. I said before maybe KG is top 50

maybe.. Hell i would take Pippen over him in a heart-beat..

Who gives a fuck if they played in the league at the same time stupid bitch. You think comparing a rookie KG to gramps Pippen is logical? NO. It isn't.

Hakeem, Admiral, Mailman, Chuck, Kemp, MJ, Miller, Stockton, Glove, Rodman, Pippen, Zo

these players are separated by era in which they were dominant

TD, Dirk, KG, Nash, Kobe, Truth, AI, Yao, T-Mac, Shaq, Kidd, C-Webb

KG is better than Malone and Chuck.... and this is by the same logic you use to put TD in the top 10.... dominant stats, and a ring.... with RING being the ultimate factor in putting him right behind Duncan in all-time PFs list.... so if you can argue that he's better than Dirk, Malone, and Chuck, then he is EASILY in the top 50. Stop embarrassing Spurs nation with your biased bullshit.

[spurs10]

Tim Duncan's career is about as excellent as you will find. Kevin Garnett would be the first person to tell you that.

[rmt]

Duncan's career speaks for itself. He was great from the beginning of his NBA career and went deep into the playoffs for a loooong time. KG - not so. It's no wonder that the mileage has caught up with him. He's 35 years old and should be getting help, not covering for Bonner and Blair. Wish TD had the kind of help KG's had in recent years - Perkins, Baby Davis, Shaq, J O'Neal instead of you-know-who. Give him a break.

[Hoops Czar]

And KG is where compared to Duncan in terms of legacy?

KG is like the 20th best of his generation..

Yes, because playing for the Minnesota Timberwolves with a bunch of dead heads for the better part of his career has a way of taking the starch out of anybody's legacy.

[Hoops Czar]

KG was playing when most of those players were still in the NBA dumb-ass.. And what about Wade and Lebron they started their careers in 03 when KG was in his prime.. They both already are ahead of him.. I am mainly talking about Duncan's career compared to KG and he unlike KG can be viewed on the all time lists where it does not have to be broken down to era's.. I said before maybe KG is top 50

maybe.. Hell i would take Pippen over him in a heart-beat..

And many of them were well past their prime. Ewing better than Garnett.:lol

[GrandeDavid]

Tim has played many more games with playoffs and Spurs don't go through Tim that much and that consistently anymore. Duncan is the greatest power forward ever and is immune to criticism.

[20beastie45]

Grizzlies!!!!!!

[crc21209]

And KG is where compared to Duncan in terms of legacy?

KG is like the 20th best of his generation..

KG is basically a stand-still jump shooter and doesnt bang in the post like Duncan has for his whole career....

[Buddy Holly]

It's sad to see how much better KG right now then TD, pathetic almost. TD couldn't even pull out 1 20pt game in the playoffs while getting serious minutes, and don't talk about touches, when he gets the ball he gets bullied

Amazing what never getting out of the first round a majority of your career can do to your lifespan in the NBA.

[jhuan16]

Duncan can score 40 if Bosh is guarding him.

[Spurs da champs]

"At least 50 pounds"? According to their listings, the biggest difference between them was 28 pounds (248 to 220). That was when they were young. Then it was 7 pounds (260 to 253). Now it's 2 pounds (255 to 253). Garnett is also really 7-1 (it's been said many times), not 6-11, like Duncan.

Because Duncan does center-like things, people act as if he's 7-1, 275. But in reality, he's smaller than Garnett and Nowitzki. He is the strongest of the three, but the point is, he played bigger than he actually was for years. And because he was so ridiculously dominant, this organization took him for granted and didn't get him proper help as he aged. Now we're seeing the effects of him having to carry far too heavy a load for too long. He played hard, grinding minutes, many of which came in the playoffs, which are harder minutes to begin with, for various reasons.

Nowadays, it oftentimes makes sense for Duncan to guard centers (not against true centers with skill, though), because of his declining mobility, but he's really a four and a half. The difference between him and guys like Garnett, Nowitzki and Gasol is, their teams never asked those guys to act as full time centers. In the case of Garnett and Nowitzki, they were never asked to act as even part time centers. They played far easier minutes. That's why Nowitzki in particular hasn't declined. Nothing he ever did lends itself to physical deterioration.

Even with a far heavier load and more hard miles on him, Duncan has drastically outperformed Garnett since he became a Celtic. Even this season, with Garnett supposedly bouncing back and Duncan having his worst season ever, he was still slightly better than him. The only two things Garnett has on Duncan are mid range shooting and face up defense.
Tim is really 7'0. Draftexpress confirms this but I agree with what you say Tim is really a hybrid forward-center and he's a banger. KG is soft in comparison.

[TDfan2007]

Tim has played many more games with playoffs and Spurs don't go through Tim that much and that consistently anymore. Duncan is the greatest power forward ever and is immune to criticism.

This. The Spurs didn't go to Tim in the Memphis series, especially after game 3 when he turned his ankle again. It's a shame really. This whole season's been a complete waste thanks to VERY poorly-timed injuries to our two best players. If Tim's ankle is 100% and Manu's elbow doesn't get sprained in a freak accident type of injury we beat Memphis. Not sure about OKC though...they would've been a match up nightmare for us.

[Budkin]

Duncan had about 10 times the playoff games as Garnett... those runs add up.

[ffadicted]

KG has been better then duncan since he returned from the injury imo, on both ends of the floor. Duncan can still post up numbers every once in a while and he started strong last year, but like people have said, much more wear and tear.

[jermaine]

It's sad to see how much better KG right now then TD, pathetic almost. TD couldn't even pull out 1 20pt game in the playoffs while getting serious minutes, and don't talk about touches, when he gets the ball he gets bullied

It's because Tim has 3 more championship rings weighing him down. While TIM was playin in the playoffs(win or lose) KG was at home watching Timmy in anger cuz he could never be him.

[spurtech09]

how many nba titles does kg and how many does tim duncan have.....

[Jace]

It IS sad, but Duncan has had more wear and tear plus some guys just age better than others. Tim never had the best body, he was never the greatest athlete, Garnett on the other hand is a physical freak

[Hoops Czar]

how many nba titles does kg and how many does tim duncan have.....

Since 2008? You can Duncan's championships on your knuckle. Don't discount KG's years with Minnesota. Odds are TD wouldn't have had much success playing for a dreadful franchise with a bunch of dead heads. Give KG a supporting cast and all of a sudden its 2 finals appearances in 3 years.

[ohmwrecker]

Also, Rondo's elbow popped out so he rubbed a little dirt and spit on it and played with one goddamn arm.

Manu gets a bruise, sits out a game, then plays with some kind of robo-limb taking a whole game to figure out he can shoot one handed free throws.

How the fuck did the Spurs win so many games?!

[Thomas82]

because duncan does center-like things, he played bigger than he actually was for years. And because he was so ridiculously dominant, this organization took him for granted and didn't get him proper help as he aged. Now we're seeing the effects of him having to carry far too heavy a load for too long. He played hard, grinding minutes, many of which came in the playoffs, which are harder minutes to begin with, for various reasons.

Even with a far heavier load and more hard miles on him, duncan has drastically outperformed garnett since he became a celtic. Even this season, with garnett supposedly bouncing back and duncan having his worst season ever, he was still slightly better than him. The only two things garnett has on duncan are mid range shooting and face up defense.


+1

[Brutalis]

KG has athleticism, and has his whole career. Which comes in handy when you get old. Duncan never had that luxury.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Marc Gasol, perhaps the best post defensive centers in the league right now, versus, Chris Bosh, one of the softest bigs in the league.

That is the difference. Lets see KG try that against Marc Gasol then there will be room to talk.

[GSH]

"At least 50 pounds"? According to their listings, the biggest difference between them was 28 pounds (248 to 220). That was when they were young. Then it was 7 pounds (260 to 253). Now it's 2 pounds (255 to 253). Garnett is also really 7-1 (it's been said many times), not 6-11, like Duncan.

Because Duncan does center-like things, people act as if he's 7-1, 275. But in reality, he's smaller than Garnett and Nowitzki. He is the strongest of the three, but the point is, he played bigger than he actually was for years.




50 lbs. may have been a stretch, but 40 isn't. I said "a lot of his career". Garnett played for a lot of years at about 220-225. Doesn't matter if you believe it or not. Go back and look at old pictures, and old listings. He was skinny. Tim bulked up for those center-like assignments, and was playing around 265 - until he lost weight to take some of the load off his knees. It's not hard to figure out. He's around 250 now, and he lost around 15 pounds after the tendinosis was diagnosed. People (and listings) can't agree on how tall they are, much less their weights. Look at some photos of them together. Different body type. Saying they are almost the same is silly.

That's just arguing over trivia, though. The hard minutes (and hours, and seasons) Tim spent banging with the giants took its toll. Anyone who has followed the Spurs knows that. Garnett has played a different game. He's gotten a lot of his blocks from the weak side, not facing up centers. It's just a different game.

As for "generation"? There's no law on how it's defined. If someone wants to define it as a 7 year stretch, I guess they can. I think that if two players overlap for half of their respective careers, it's legitimate to compare them. Luc Longley was part of the Jordan era. (He was on 3 of the Bulls' championship teams.) He was drafted just 4 years before Garnett.

So let's see... Vlade Divac was drafted just 3 years before Shaq. They have to be part of the same generation, don't they? And Duncan was drafted 5 years after Shaq, so they are part of the same generation. But Duncan and Divac aren't part of the same generation, because they are 8 years apart? If that helps you sell your story, I guess go with what you know.

Whatever. When things get that ridiculously stupid, they just bore me. It's like kids arguing over whether Batman could beat up Aquaman. I didn't like those arguments when I was 10.

[TD 21]

Tim is really 7'0. Draftexpress confirms this but I agree with what you say Tim is really a hybrid forward-center and he's a banger. KG is soft in comparison.

I presume you're referring to their listing him as 6-11 barefoot, which would make him 7-0 in shoes (most players listings are in shoes). But he's not a full 7-0. He's noticeably smaller than Robinson, O'Neal, Garnett and Gasol.

That's exactly what he is; a hybrid forward-center, who combines center and guard like skills. That's why, among other reasons, he was always better than O'Neal and Garnett. O'Neal is all power, Garnett is all finesse; Duncan is the perfect mix of the two.

[TD 21]

50 lbs. may have been a stretch, but 40 isn't. I said "a lot of his career". Garnett played for a lot of years at about 220-225. Doesn't matter if you believe it or not. Go back and look at old pictures, and old listings. He was skinny. Tim bulked up for those center-like assignments, and was playing around 265 - until he lost weight to take some of the load off his knees. It's not hard to figure out. He's around 250 now, and he lost around 15 pounds after the tendinosis was diagnosed. People (and listings) can't agree on how tall they are, much less their weights. Look at some photos of them together. Different body type. Saying they are almost the same is silly.

That's just arguing over trivia, though. The hard minutes (and hours, and seasons) Tim spent banging with the giants took its toll. Anyone who has followed the Spurs knows that. Garnett has played a different game. He's gotten a lot of his blocks from the weak side, not facing up centers. It's just a different game.

As for "generation"? There's no law on how it's defined. If someone wants to define it as a 7 year stretch, I guess they can. I think that if two players overlap for half of their respective careers, it's legitimate to compare them. Luc Longley was part of the Jordan era. (He was on 3 of the Bulls' championship teams.) He was drafted just 4 years before Garnett.

So let's see... Vlade Divac was drafted just 3 years before Shaq. They have to be part of the same generation, don't they? And Duncan was drafted 5 years after Shaq, so they are part of the same generation. But Duncan and Divac aren't part of the same generation, because they are 8 years apart? If that helps you sell your story, I guess go with what you know.

Whatever. When things get that ridiculously stupid, they just bore me. It's like kids arguing over whether Batman could beat up Aquaman. I didn't like those arguments when I was 10.

I'm aware they have different body types. My point is, though, that despite their different body types and style of play, one is not some physically overwhelming player and the other some skeleton. Garnett is actually the taller player, at 7-1 and has played at (supposedly) 253 for years now. If you don't believe he's 7-1 (it's been said many times), just YouTube Duncan-Garnett '01. Click on part one and watch the first five seconds.

Duncan had a few years, roughly 05-08, where he had noticeably put on weight. But if you go back and look at him in his younger days and look at him now, he's a long, skinny guy, just like Garnett. Only his team is asking him to act as if he's some traditional center and then when he get's physically overwhelmed by a Howard, Bogut, Bynum, Milicic or M. Gasol, people go "he's old and washed up". When in actuality, that has more to do with the fact that he's just not a true center. You don't see the Celtics or Mavs asking Garnett or Nowitzki to guard those types and the Lakers try to limit Gasol's minutes on them.

I have no idea what you're referring to with this "generation" talk.

[Spurs da champs]

I presume you're referring to their listing him as 6-11 barefoot, which would make him 7-0 in shoes (most players listings are in shoes). But he's not a full 7-0. He's noticeably smaller than Robinson, O'Neal, Garnett and Gasol.

That's exactly what he is; a hybrid forward-center, who combines center and guard like skills. That's why, among other reasons, he was always better than O'Neal and Garnett. O'Neal is all power, Garnett is all finesse; Duncan is the perfect mix of the two.

Well the thing is with Tim he always has his head down in a slouching position realize that 2. When he stands straight up tall like KG does all the time I promise you Tim is at least 7'0. I'm starting to think Tim has back or neck problems. :lol

But good point, couldn't of said it any better.

Tho What you say about those big centers, Tim doesn't get overwhelmed by them because he's not a true center, but because he's old & not as quick as he was before.

Tim would've of had all of those scrubs you mentioned for breakfast back in his prime, especially Howard Tim towers over him.

[Sean Cagney]

Hope whoever wrote this is seeing his 1-10 tonight! LIGHTS OUT!

[Agloco]

You guys are acting a fool. Without KG, Boston doesn't compete.

And give credit where it's due. KG has aged better than TD has.... doesn't mean he's better overall in terms of career ranking, but he's better right now.... he's meaner and more motivated too, bitches.


For most of his career, Duncan outweighed Garnett by at least 50 pounds. Garnett played a finesse game, and didn't spend every night getting beaten on by the biggest guy on the opposing team. It took a toll on Tim's knees. And when Tim played through some injuries, to help the team win, it took even more of a toll on his knees.

Duncan has just under 7,000 minutes in playoff games. Garnett has just under 4,000. That's A LOT more wear and tear.

Over the last several seasons, Garnett has had guys like Big Baby, Kendrick Perkins, Rasheed Wallace, and Leon Powe to help him out around the basket. And Paul Pierce and Ray Allen on the outside, to keep them from collapsing on him. If Duncan had more help over the years, he wouldn't have so much hard mileage.

Most of all... what's your fucking point? There's no rule that says Boston can't take on one new fan. Go watch Garnett.

/thread

[Spurtacus]

Rofl

kg 1-10

[J_Paco]

Since 2008? You can Duncan's championships on your knuckle. Don't discount KG's years with Minnesota. Odds are TD wouldn't have had much success playing for a dreadful franchise with a bunch of dead heads. Give KG a supporting cast and all of a sudden its 2 finals appearances in 3 years.


Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Tim Duncan: 4 championships
Kevin Garnett: 1 championship
Cleveland Cavaliers: O championships

Wow, Kevin's 4 points, on 1/10 shooting, and 10 rebounds really was great. Give either guy two or more days of rest and they'll perform well. Give them less then that and they'll perform average or worse. That's what happens with age and injury. Or do people already forget Garnett dragging one leg around against L.A. in the Finals last June???

[TD 21]

Well the thing is with Tim he always has his head down in a slouching position realize that 2. When he stands straight up tall like KG does all the time I promise you Tim is at least 7'0. I'm starting to think Tim has back or neck problems. :lol

But good point, couldn't of said it any better.

Tho What you say about those big centers, Tim doesn't get overwhelmed by them because he's not a true center, but because he's old & not as quick as he was before.

Tim would've of had all of those scrubs you mentioned for breakfast back in his prime, especially Howard Tim towers over him.

True. He might be 7-0 in shoes, but even if he is, he's noticeably smaller than Robinson, O'Neal, Garnett, Gasol, Bynum, etc. If he were of equal height to them or an inch smaller than some, it wouldn't be noticeable. I don't think he has back or neck problems, I just think he's not particularly comfortable standing out. And what stands out more than a guy who's around 7-0 tall? O'Neal, on the other hand, relishes being that big.

Defensively, he get's overwhelmed by them because he's not a true center. Those guys are bigger and stronger and they know they can overpower him, which is why all of them aggressively take it at him. Offensively, when he was younger, he'd have destroyed these types, by first hitting a few jumpers and then, once they start respecting that, beating them off the dribble. But now, he lacks the elevation to shoot as well from mid range and the quickness and explosion to beat them off the dribble. And obviously, he's not strong enough to back them down, or long enough to shoot up over the top of them. So he really has no advantage over them, which is why he struggles with them.

That's why this team needs to, in addition to starting Splitter next to him, bring in, if not a true center, at least a third center sized, rotation caliber big, so that Duncan doesn't have to be the primary defender against these types.

[TJastal]

True. He might be 7-0 in shoes, but even if he is, he's noticeably smaller than Robinson, O'Neal, Garnett, Gasol, Bynum, etc. If he were of equal height to them or an inch smaller than some, it wouldn't be noticeable. I don't think he has back or neck problems, I just think he's not particularly comfortable standing out. And what stands out more than a guy who's around 7-0 tall? O'Neal, on the other hand, relishes being that big.

Defensively, he get's overwhelmed by them because he's not a true center. Those guys are bigger and stronger and they know they can overpower him, which is why all of them aggressively take it at him. Offensively, when he was younger, he'd have destroyed these types, by first hitting a few jumpers and then, once they start respecting that, beating them off the dribble. But now, he lacks the elevation to shoot as well from mid range and the quickness and explosion to beat them off the dribble. And obviously, he's not strong enough to back them down, or long enough to shoot up over the top of them. So he really has no advantage over them, which is why he struggles with them.

That's why this team needs to, in addition to starting Splitter next to him, bring in, if not a true center, at least a third center sized, rotation caliber big, so that Duncan doesn't have to be the primary defender against these types.

Duncan may be a shade shorter than Garnett (and the others mentioned) but his standing reach (which is superior to all of them I would be willing to bet) more than makes up for that inch he's giving up. And the only reason he's been getting bullied around is because he lost weight to take the stress off the knees. You're absolutely right though that he cannot guard these big hogs of the league like Bynum/Gasol/Howard/Oden/etc playing at 240. He needs some help.

[Nathan89]

:lmao This thread.

The guy went 1-10 the next game because he is a jump-shooter. A damn good one but Tim is still a better option for the Spurs than him.

[mosdef17]

It's quite a stupid argument to go by one big game that Garnett happened to have in the Playoffs, using one game a sample size or example in any situation is irrational. The simple answer as to why KG will age better then Tim is that his body type is more receptive to it. KG is more of an athlete, his wiry build will obviously adapt better to ageing.

[Mal]

Sad, but Garnett is same old shit , just like Duncan. They both cant compete with younger big mens.

[Cane]

And give credit where it's due. KG has aged better than TD has.... doesn't mean he's better overall in terms of career ranking, but he's better right now.... he's meaner and more motivated too, bitches.

Depends how you qualify that since KG's missed more games than Duncan has in the past few years. KG had to get knee surgery a couple of seasons ago and was hobbling for a season after as well.

[K-State Spur]

Since 2008? You can Duncan's championships on your knuckle. Don't discount KG's years with Minnesota. Odds are TD wouldn't have had much success playing for a dreadful franchise with a bunch of dead heads.

Doubtful Duncan wins any titles with KG's supporting cast in Minny (with the possible exception of 2004). But there is no way that a prime Duncan led team ever misses the playoffs - which KG did 3 consecutive years.

While Robinson was still solid at the very beginning of Tim's career and Parker/Ginobili eventually developed into all-star caliber players - people forget some of the shit that Duncan had surrounding him for some of his best years.

The 2002 roster was especially brutal: MVP Duncan + a couple of has-beens + a couple of not yets (nobody other than Tim was anything more than a role player on that team) = 58 wins and second round.

The bottom line is, and there's really no way around this, only one team with KG as the best player ever advanced past the first round of the playoffs. That in no way diminishes KG's outstanding career - but it does remove any comparability between him and TD.

[K-State Spur]

everyone can say duncan was the overall superior player but no one can deny that KG has become a better than duncan currently. it's a sad fact.

I'd give KG a slight edge - but only that, much slighter than a lot of people are making out.

KG's aged a lot more than a lot of posters on here seem to realize. People want to call Duncan washed up after going for 13 & 9 this year. Well, KG only went for 15 & 9 - and missed twice as many games as Duncan did.

KG is definitely still able to defend the PnR better than Tim (who has dropped off quite a bit in that regard) - but Duncan is still a better/stronger post defender and much superior shot blocker (KG's shot blocking has dwindled significantly the past few years - Duncan had almost 3x as many blocks this year).

KG did have the one big game in the playoffs (against a terrible defensive 4) where he put the team on his back (which Tim wasn't able to do) - but he followed that up with an absolutely brutal performance where Boston would have won handedly if he just played bad instead of terrible.

As I said, I give KG a slight edge at this juncture - but it's ridiculous to think it's anything more than that. We can't look at the areas of decline in TD's game and then blatantly ignore than KG's got his areas where age has diminished him.

[cheguevara]

do any of you realize KG is going vs. Bosh and a bunch of garbage the Heat frontline has? Timmy was going vs. the best frontline in the NBA right now. :rolleyes

[zrinkill]

Name ten.

Tim Duncan
Shaq
Kobe Bryant
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Jason Kidd
Grant Hill
Allen Iverson
Paul Pierce

All I could think of from his "generation"