Is Kobe a Top 10 player of all time?

[ChrisRichards]

2 Time defending champs "leader" and "MVP" allowed his team to get swept in the 2nd round and worse, it was a 36 (?) point blowout?

Kobe is also the leader in 3 of the most humiliating/emabarrasing blowout losses in elimination games in Lakers history.

2006 Game 7 against the Suns
2008 Game 6 against Boston
2011 Game 4 against Mavericks

In all 3 games, Kobe also had a sub par game. Not the type og game you would expect from a Top 10 player of all time.

Whee does Kobe rank right now all time?


I'll say 14 or 15.

[Splits]

He is the GOAT: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/04/goat_death/


Cross-dresser kills goat while high on bath salts

A 19-year-old American man has blamed the narcotic effects of bath salts* for sparking an episode that resulted in the death of a pygmy goat.
Mark L Thompson of Alum Creek, West Virginia, was arrested on Monday after police had been called by the owner of a pygmy goat, a neighbour of Thompson's, who had complained that the 19-year-old was holding the beast captive in his home.

http://ad.uk.doubleclick.net/ad/reg.oddsandsods.4159/bootnotes;tile=2;pos=top;dcove=d;sz=336x280;ord=Tc eH-sCoAT8AADuQvfIAAAF2? (http://ad.uk.doubleclick.net/jump/reg.oddsandsods.4159/bootnotes;tile=2;pos=top;dcove=d;sz=336x280;ord=Tc eH-sCoAT8AADuQvfIAAAF2?)
The neighbour's nephew and two women went into Thompson's house. Thompson warned them off, saying he was naked.

When they pushed Thompson's bedroom door open, the neighbour told The Charleston Gazette (http://wvgazette.com/News/201105020871): "He was standing there with his pants down. He had on women's clothing and the goat was dead and there was blood everywhere. It was just a scene."
A pornographic photo was apparently found lying near the carcass of the goat.
Thompson took to his heels, still in bra and panties, and police spent several hours scouring local woods for the cross-dressing caprine killer.
When they cornered him eventually, Thompson told police he had been high on bath salts for several days.
The teenager is being held on animal cruelty charges. He was taken into custody by Adult Protective Services. ®
* "Bath salts", a designer drug, has become the latest legal high worry for the authorities on both sides of the Atlantic. It is typically based on methylenedioxypyrovalerone (MDPV) and is also known as Magic and Super Coke. It induces similar effects to mephedrone, the last big legal high worry. It is not actually recommended for use as part of a beauty regime, but rather is sold in packaging that mimics that of a beauty product... Lawmakers are working towards a total ban. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/31/us-drugs-bathsalts-odds-idUSTRE70U4YE20110131) ®

[Man In Black]

Add his first foray into trying to be Batman instead of Robin with that abysmal stinker of a series against the Pistons in 04.
He pretty much sucks. But since the 4-letter loves to suck LAL cock...we're told he's a top 5 talent. He'll never be better than the 2nd best SG of all time. And as it stands, it's easy to knock him down the SG list despite the number of titles, especially the ones he's the primary lead. He's failed more times than he's won as top leader of the LAL.

[BRHornet45]

no goddamn it .. stop with the trolling already. sick of this idiotic question

[baseline bum]

2 Time defending champs "leader" and "MVP" allowed his team to get swept in the 2nd round and worse, it was a 36 (?) point blowout?

Kobe is also the leader in 3 of the most humiliating/emabarrasing blowout losses in elimination games in Lakers history.

2006 Game 7 against the Suns
2008 Game 6 against Boston
2011 Game 4 against Mavericks

In all 3 games, Kobe also had a sub par game. Not the type og game you would expect from a Top 10 player of all time.

Whee does Kobe rank right now all time?


I'll say 14 or 15.

You forgot 110-82 ('03) and 100-87 ('04; final score was a lot closer than the actual game).

[TDMVPDPOY]

you also forgot the 04 finals against the pistons...the blowout lost due to him going jordan

[Sean Cagney]

Kobe and Tim both top 15 of all times, it's that simple! PERIOD! IMO anyways.

[ImDaNuts]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI&feature=related

[baseline bum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI&feature=related

He also thinks Matt Bonner and Michael Finley are talented power forwards.

[Baseline]

Bryant is a Top 50 player all-time IF AND ONLY IF he is playing beside a dominant big man.

In this series against Dallas, Gasol didn't play like a dominant big man. So what happened? LA got swept, further proving that Bryant is not a truly special player in his own right.

In last year's Celtic series, Bryant went 6-24 in Game 7. That was one of the worst Game 7 performances of all time, if not the worst by a "susperstar" player. Gasol was actually the MVP of that series, although of course Bryant was gifted the award.

[NewcastleKEG]

Christian Laettner > Kobe

DREAM TEAM BABY ! DAAAA DUUUUUKIES !

[TDMVPDPOY]

kobe is a good player when he has a top3 big man next to him....

coat riding

[elemento]

of course not

sidekicks cant be top10 players.

[greyforest]

No.

[unforeseen]

No but his career is not finished yet.

[Capt Bringdown]

A lot was riding on this year in terms of Kobe's legacy, and now the jury's in: with a complete, healthy roster, the best the Lakers have had in years, Kobe couldn't deliver the necessary leadership. In fact, all he did was lead the Lakers to a humiliating sweep/epic beatdown. As Gasol faltered, so did the Lakers.

Kobe's a great talent, a second-tier superstar similar to our very own Gervin, Bob Mcadoo, and of course Scotty Pippen. He doesn't belong in the pantheon of great leaders. A damn good bit player & sidekick, though.

[DMC]

If you have to ask....

[mystargtr34]

He probably is.. somewhere from 7-10 imo..

[HarlemHeat37]

Yes, he definitely is..while he's definitely overrated, as he has shown in big games/elimination games, I can't put players like Oscar Robertson and Jerry West ahead of him..I can see an argument for Moses Malone, but nobody else..

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol his all defensive team....lol reputation hasnt done shit

[DPG21920]

I agree with Harlem. Kobe is top 10.

[Venti Quattro]

He is. 6-10 range.

[TheGreatest23]

Kobe's definately top 10... just alot of circle jerking in this thread. But thats why all the well respected posters in this thread say he is.

[Axe Murderer]

sons Kobe was an OUTSTANDING 3 option for all 5 of those title teams. That's gotta count for something right. I'll go ahead and put him in my top 250

[Leetonidas]

Talent wise he is. But career wise and in terms of him making his teammates better, leadership, poise, etc...definitely not. I think Kobe is extremely talented offensively much like Iverson and McGrady. The difference is he played with Shaq and Pau Gasol/Andrew Bynum/Lamar Odom while AI played with Dikembe and Nene and McGrady had no one in Orlando and was constantly injured alongside Yao in Houston.

Kobe is basically a taller, glorified Allen Iverson.

[JamStone]

Arguably top 10. I can understand the argument against it. Certainly top 15. But he absolutely has some big disappointments/failures that go against him.

[TheMACHINE]

Talent wise he is. But career wise and in terms of him making his teammates better, leadership, poise, etc...definitely not. I think Kobe is extremely talented offensively much like Iverson and McGrady. The difference is he played with Shaq and Pau Gasol/Andrew Bynum/Lamar Odom while AI played with Dikembe and Nene and McGrady had no one in Orlando and was constantly injured alongside Yao in Houston.

Kobe is basically a taller, glorified Allen Iverson.

lol making it seem like Gasol, Bynum and Odom are HOF greats.

[Venti Quattro]

Gasol will enter the HOF at his combined NBA + international resume. It will happen even if he's a fuckin sissy for crying about his girlfriend in the middle of a playoff series.

Bynum and Odom... mental midgets

[TheMACHINE]

Arguably top 10. I can understand the argument against it. Certainly top 15. But he absolutely has some big disappointments/failures that go against him.

true...im gonna take Magic Johnson out of the top 10 cuz he has some failures and disappointments too.

[Warlord23]

Imagine Kobe is Artest, and the top 10 list is the hoop ...

http://209.160.24.97/ds_img_direct.php?i=artest.gif&t=8&d=1fjdcjav7c&x=360&y=480&l1=169&l2=61

[JamStone]

he ain't gettin ranked above:

chamberlain
bird
russell
mj
magic
kareem
hakeem
shaq
gervin
erving
robertson
duncan
west
pippen
Baylor
rick barry
moses malone

no fucking WAY is the chucking fraud better than ANY of those guys

Fairly ridiculous on the bolded players.

More than arguable on the italicized players.

Has a probably losing argument against Shaq and Duncan, but there is an argument.

Leaves him a borderline top 10 player.

[Ashy Larry]

of course not

sidekicks cant be top10 players.


so sidekicks average 33 points per game against the mighty Spurs in the WCF ???



Is he top 10? Probably not but I can see him 11-15

[TinTin]

so sidekicks average 33 points per game against the mighty Spurs in the WCF ???



Is he top 10? Probably not but I can see him 11-15

Don't be a faggot, he is top 10 :toast

[Cry Havoc]

Fairly ridiculous on the bolded players.

More than arguable on the italicized players.

Has a probably losing argument against Shaq and Duncan, but there is an argument.

Leaves him a borderline top 10 player.

Yep. His career isn't over. He's almost certainly going to be top 10 all-time when he's done, but I can't really see him getting much higher than 7, at the most generous. Right now I'd probably have him anywhere from 10-15.

[Koolaid_Man]

2 Time defending champs "leader" and "MVP" allowed his team to get swept in the 2nd round and worse, it was a 36 (?) point blowout?

Kobe is also the leader in 3 of the most humiliating/emabarrasing blowout losses in elimination games in Lakers history.

2006 Game 7 against the Suns
2008 Game 6 against Boston
2011 Game 4 against Mavericks

In all 3 games, Kobe also had a sub par game. Not the type og game you would expect from a Top 10 player of all time.

Whee does Kobe rank right now all time?


I'll say 14 or 15.


Cry me a fucking river...:lol Kobe is better than any player you've ever had on your teams...Suck it Bitches...:lol

Top 5...

MJ
Kareem
Kobe
Magic
Wilt


that's it and that's all...

History will will remember Top 3 in scoring all time before it's done, Top 30 in assists(currently top 50) ...5+ rings...

Like fat man Barkley says in this case I agree with his sentiment...If Kobe is the closet thing since MJ then he's automatically #2. :lmao

AyhX2YMgNvs

[Koolaid_Man]

Kenny Smith lol - I will agree with you if say 6....lol

[Ashy Larry]

he ain't gettin ranked above:

chamberlain
bird
russell
mj
magic
kareem
hakeem
shaq
gervin
erving
robertson
duncan
west
pippen
Baylor
rick barry
moses malone

no fucking WAY is the chucking fraud better than ANY of those guys


lol @ rick barry :rollin




chamberlain
bird
russell
mj
magic
kareem
_______________ those 6 are untouchable

moses malone
duncan
hakeem
shaq
robertson - people talk shit about Bean coat tailing. The Big O, though he did put up ungodly numbers, didn't get his ring until he hooked up with Kareem.

I can say he would go into this group right here. considering dude is already the second greatest 2 guard in league history.

_______________




gervin - lol @ iceman .... play defense you cold fuck, something Kobe has done


erving - since you loving talking about coat tailing, dude had to coattail moses and didn't get his title until Big Mo arrived.

west - Kobe already passed up the logo in practically every statistical category and the man basically said Kobe was better than he ever was.

pippen - Scottie definitely is in the 11-15 slot .... strong defensively and also remember for getting crossed up by Bean with that lob to Shaquille. Something he wasn't able to do that Kobe has done, be the Alpha Male and lead his team to a title. Couldn't do it as a Bull or with the Blazers.


Baylor - The OG high flyer. Left the game ringless. Sucks for him because the year he retired during the season, the 72 Lakers won 33 straight without him and the ring.


rick barry - lol ..... play defense

[Leetonidas]

lol making it seem like Gasol, Bynum and Odom are HOF greats.

Gasol will be in the HOF, but the point is, that is the best frontline trio in the NBA easily.

[ambchang]

so sidekicks average 33 points per game against the mighty Spurs in the WCF ???



Is he top 10? Probably not but I can see him 11-15

Amare averaged 37ppg vs. the Spurs. He was a Nash sidekick.

[Koolaid_Man]

kobe has yet to prove anything without riding the coattails of the most dominant big man of all time, or at least with the help of by FAR the best frontcourt tandem in the league. dude just got swept and humiliated. there are a multitude of other players who could have won those rings if they were in kobe's position. hell, clyde drexxler could have won those rings playing next to shaq and bynum/odom/gasol. yeah gasol laid a turd but for the past couple of years he was the best scoring big man in the league. kobe is overrated as fuck, i'm not sure why he has so many nut huggers. i guess he appeals to the crowd that thinks chucking shots, acting like a jackass and making weird faces with your jaw is the cool thing to do.


:lol that's sounds good but here's what the facts show.....Shaq played with a stacked team in Orlando...You forget about Mr. Penny Hardaway...:lol and all those bulls eye shooters he had on that team...He didn't ring....:lol

He also played with All-stars gaurds in VanExcell and Eddie Jones and guess what he didn't ring....

When did he ring? gotdam you smart you guessed right....:lmao

Kobe 5 and take your pick....:lol

Duncan 4
Dirk 0
Wade 1
Lebron 0
Yao Ming 0
Hornets 0
Kings 0
BLazers 0
OKC 0
Suns 0
Boston's Trio - 1
Rose - 0

[Ashy Larry]

hard to believe that Del Harris had better talent than Phil and didn't win shit ........

down down down, Utah's doing down........ :(

[TheMACHINE]

kobe luva is telling me

how the hell you think pippen being better than kobe is "ridiculous" is beyond me. pippen was probably the greatest defender of all time and had a HUGE impact on ball games. see, i don't look at whos better by flashiness or ability to chuck up fadeaways..i evaluate a player on how much of a total positive impact they have for their team when they're on the court. pippen is MILES ahead of kobe defensively, and his unselfishness translates to better team play. when jordan was gone, pippen went further than kobe ever did during the dark years when he could barely make the playoffs with relatively equal talent around him. it sure as hell isn't "ridiculous" by any stretch, pippen dominated and impacted ball games.

wow..Tyson trying to troll here...no way he believes this shit.

Trying to say Pippens Bulls team = Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Smush Parker, Shamond Willams, Luke Walton and Brian Cook. :rollin :lol

Good one, Tyson.

[TheMACHINE]

Gasol will be in the HOF, but the point is, that is the best frontline trio in the NBA easily.

who cares if its the best frontline in the NBA. Theres other teams who made changes with just as good players aswell.

[Cry Havoc]

wow..Tyson trying to troll here...no way he believes this shit.

Trying to say Pippens Bulls team = Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Smush Parker, Shamond Willams, Luke Walton and Brian Cook. :rollin :lol

Good one, Tyson.

Name the 3rd and 4th best players on that Bulls team when Jordan was out.

[Ashy Larry]

third best player was probably bj armstrong since they did send three players to the all-star game and also brought in ron harper before the injuries ....


pippen grant and armstrong were all stars the year mj was gone

[hater]

no way he is top 10. he is definitely in the next 10 though

[TheMACHINE]

ill give you the rosters, and you compare for yourself. I'd like to hear why you think the two teams are equal?

Armstrong, B.J.
Kerr, Steve
Grant, Horace
Blount, Corie
Kukoc, Toni
Longley, Luc
Paxson, John
Perdue, Will
Cartwright, Bill
English, Jo Jo
Johnson, Dave
King, Stacey
Myers, Pete
Wennington, Bill
Williams, Scott


Brian Grant
Lamar Odom
Kwame Brown
Devean George
Chris Mihm
Stanislav Medvedenko
Aaron McKie
Vlade Divac
Andrew Bynum
Luke Walton
Brian Cook
Sasha Vujacic
Smush Parker
Laron Profit
Devin Green
Von Wafer

[hater]

it's pretty equal talent tbh.

Pippen was better than bean that season.

[Cry Havoc]

ill give you the rosters, and you compare for yourself. I'd like to hear why you think the two teams are equal?

Armstrong, B.J.
Kerr, Steve
Grant, Horace
Blount, Corie
Kukoc, Toni
Longley, Luc
Paxson, John
Perdue, Will
Cartwright, Bill
English, Jo Jo
Johnson, Dave
King, Stacey
Myers, Pete
Wennington, Bill
Williams, Scott


Brian Grant
Lamar Odom
Kwame Brown
Devean George
Chris Mihm
Stanislav Medvedenko
Aaron McKie
Vlade Divac
Andrew Bynum
Luke Walton
Brian Cook
Sasha Vujacic
Smush Parker
Laron Profit
Devin Green
Von Wafer

Lamar Odom absolutely destroys anyone on Chicago not named Pippen.

[Cry Havoc]

it's pretty equal talent tbh.

Pippen was better than bean that season.

Also, Pippen's team actually made the playoffs. :lol

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Imagine Kobe is Artest, and the top 10 list is the hoop ...

http://209.160.24.97/ds_img_direct.php?i=artest.gif&t=8&d=1fjdcjav7c&x=360&y=480&l1=169&l2=61

:lol

[Spurtacus]

Top 20, maybe top 15. Not top 10. He can't win without Phil and a All-Star big.

[Ashy Larry]

ill give you the rosters, and you compare for yourself. I'd like to hear why you think the two teams are equal?

Armstrong, B.J. - all star
Kerr, Steve
Grant, Horace - all star
Blount, Corie
Kukoc, Toni - damn near an all-star
Longley, Luc
Paxson, John
Perdue, Will
Cartwright, Bill
English, Jo Jo
Johnson, Dave
King, Stacey
Myers, Pete
Wennington, Bill
Williams, Scott


Brian Grant
Lamar Odom
Kwame Brown
Devean George
Chris Mihm
Stanislav Medvedenko
Aaron McKie
Vlade Divac
Andrew Bynum
Luke Walton
Brian Cook
Sasha Vujacic
Smush Parker
Laron Profit
Devin Green
Von Wafer


those rosters arent even close. and hell, compare the role players. :rollin

the only one worth keeping was Lamar and maybe Sasha. Either the Laker roster were too young or too old. lol @ vlade and mckie

[mavsfan1000]

Based on what I saw these last 4 games, no he isn't. He is the most overhyped player of all-time imo.

[TheGreatest23]

Also, Pippen's team actually made the playoffs. :lol


it's pretty equal talent tbh.

Pippen was better than bean that season.

Spurs fan are classy but sure are dumbasses

[TheGreatest23]

Based on what I saw these last 4 games, no he isn't. He is the most overhyped player of all-time imo.

He sucked this year, yes. But doesnt mean he is over hyped. He is hyped cuz of his accolades, which is well deserve.

[ImDaNuts]

Without him Shaq wouldn't of 3 peated...guaranteed. How we forget how dominant he was in his prime. He was also the main guy for his B2B...

Watch his clutch performances in the playoffs ...yes he has had his failures but a lot of the 'top 25' players have as well.

[JamStone]

kobe luva is telling me

how the hell you think pippen being better than kobe is "ridiculous" is beyond me. pippen was probably the greatest defender of all time and had a HUGE impact on ball games. see, i don't look at whos better by flashiness or ability to chuck up fadeaways..i evaluate a player on how much of a total positive impact they have for their team when they're on the court. pippen is MILES ahead of kobe defensively, and his unselfishness translates to better team play. when jordan was gone, pippen went further than kobe ever did during the dark years when he could barely make the playoffs with relatively equal talent around him. it sure as hell isn't "ridiculous" by any stretch, pippen dominated and impacted ball games.

It's ridiculous to me. I can post career stats, career playoff stats, and honors/awards/accolades, and it's decisively in Kobe's favor. Kobe's league MVP and two Finals MVPs pretty much ends the debate completely. But even if you want to go deeper, all you can argue is that Scottie was a better defender, more versatile. Kobe even has Pippen beat out in PER and Win Shares/48 (for all the basketball stats geeks) in both the regular season and in the playoffs.

I wouldn't say Pippen is anywhere close to in the conversation as greatest defender of all time, but you're entitled to think that if you wish. Being more unselfish doesn't translate into being better.

As for 1993-94 Pippen and 2004-05 Kobe, Scottie did a better job, I guess. But if you want to get into who had a better team around him, you have to also take into consideration the competition in the league. Pippen led that Bulls team farther than Kobe did his Lakers. But Pippen was also in a league and, more importantly, in a conference much weaker in 1993-94 than Kobe was in 2004-05.

Scottie was a better defender, more unselfish. I don't think there's even the slightest bit of an argument to prove he was the better player than Kobe. I do think it's ridiculous.

[TheGreatest23]

Also...if Pippen is really greather then Kobe....then Jordan was one lucky mother fucker to be paired up with a TOP 10 player right?

[lefty]

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Russell
Kareem
Olajuwon
Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
Isiah Thomas
Shaq



So no

[JamStone]

Lol Isiah Thomas

And I'm an Isiah fan and defender

[Kyle Orton]

Lamar Odom absolutely destroys anyone on Chicago not named Pippen.

I wouldn't go as far as to say Odom destroys Horace Grant given Grant averaged 15 11 and was an AS in 1994 (assuming you're talking about 1994).

[lefty]

Lol Isiah Thomas

And I'm an Isiah fan and defender
I don't know

Scoring 25 pts in one quarter on 1 leg vs a stingy Lakers defense in the Finals is pretty awesome
And the little man gave Magic, Jordan and Bird fits

[TheNextGen]

barea gave kobe fits..thus barea = top 50.

[lefty]

barea gave kobe fits..thus barea = top 50.
Comparing Kobe to Magic/Jordan/Bird?


Really?

[Donkeybong]

yah, he is top 10 for sure. If Barkley, the biggest Kobe hater, can admit he is top 6, then he is definitely top 10.

[Amaso]

Somewhere in top 5(for now at least most non-trolls would rank him in there), same calibur as Magic, Kareem, Bird, etc. It's hard to rank players by #2, #3, #4, #5... so I just usually group them by tiers.

The only player that is definitively above Kobe is MJ, the margin is close but is not surmountable at this point in his career. I would be hard-pressed to say anyone else has had a better career than Kobe, and Kobe has at LEAST 3+ years left in the NBA playing at a high level, where he will have a good chance at another ring. You have to realize EVERY single superstar has had terrible performances, disappointments, and opportunities to win more. The reason why Kobe gets dissed on by so much here is because he is the ONLY player in today's game that is in the same calibur as the elite all-time greats. It's easy to examine all the negatives in a player, especially when its happening today.

The fact of the matter is when Kobe's career is over, stuff like getting swept by the Mavericks isn't going to be something that's mentioned when people are trying to compare him with other all-time greats. The guy has 5 rings, and won 2 with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player... no other top 5 player has won a championship without AT LEAST 1 hall-of-famer. He will have a good shot at the all-time scoring leader accomplishment, and like I said earlier has a good chance at winning another ring(s) with a better player next to him.

He still has the opportunity to cement himself at the #2 spot, unlike any other person currently in the top 10. He's the best player of this generation. He's already high on the list, and people haven't even had time to reflect back on the greatness of his career, which is saying something.

[ambchang]

I have said it before, Kobe is being argued as a top10 player right now because he plays in LA. Shaq was ranked as a top 4 big man, and some say top 3 back in the early 00s (Behind Wilt and Jabbar, maybe Russell). He is now obviously ranked behind the likes of Jabbar, Russell, Wilt, Hakeem, and maybe Duncan.

Magic is numero in the mid-80s, but now he is generally regarded as a top 4 to 7 player (behind Jordan who wasn't on the map back then, Wilt, Russel, Jabbar).

The same is going to happen to Kobe. He is widely touted as top 10 now, but in 5 years, 10 years, he would fall back to a top 15 talent, where he should be.

Players I would rank above Kobe:
Wilt
Russell
Jabbar
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Moses Malone
Big O

Players I would rank with Kobe:
West
Havlicek
Dr. J


Players who may have a chance of surpassing Kobe:
Lebron
Durant (long shot)
Wade (long shot, mainly because of his injury issues)
Rose (way too early to tell)

[ChrisRichards]

Players better than Kobe imo (no order)

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Russell
Shaq
Olajuwon
Duncan
Wilt
Dr. J
Oscar
Moses
KG
Pippen
Isiah

Its hard for me to put him in the Top 10 list with the way he's been going down on elimination games.

I gave him a pass in 2006 when the Lakers choked en route to a blowout loss against the Suns. Around 2008, his fans gave us their usual alibis why the Lakers not only managed to choke a 20+ point lead in game 2 but also ended the series in a humiliating fashion (39 point loss) most in NBA Finals history, mind you. Kobe btw, was non exitent on both games just an fyi, some leader, right?


Well, the series against the Mavs proved my accusations all along. Kobe's leadership and killer instinct has been exagerrated all this time. The Lakers were actually a much better team this season but he allowed his team to not only get swept but he also sent Phil Jackson to an embarassing exit.


I'm sorry, this sounds like Im kicking the Kobe when he's down but Jackson raised you as a player the least you could do is go out there and play hard nose basketball for 48 minutes.

[TheMACHINE]

Players better than Kobe imo (no order)

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Russell
Shaq
Olajuwon
Duncan
Wilt
Dr. J
Oscar
Moses
KG
Pippen
Isiah

Its hard for me to put him in the Top 10 list with the way he's been going down on elimination games.

I gave him a pass in 2006 when the Lakers choked en route to a blowout loss against the Suns. Around 2008, his fans gave us their usual alibis why the Lakers not only managed to choke a 20+ point lead in game 2 but also ended the series in a humiliating fashion (39 point loss) most in NBA Finals history, mind you. Kobe btw, was non exitent on both games just an fyi, some leader, right?


Well, the series against the Mavs proved my accusations all along. Kobe's leadership and killer instinct has been exagerrated all this time. The Lakers were actually a much better team this season but he allowed his team to not only get swept but he also sent Phil Jackson to an embarassing exit.


I'm sorry, this sounds like Im kicking the Kobe when he's down but Jackson raised you as a player the least you could do is go out there and play hard nose basketball for 48 minutes.

You aint kicking Kobe when he's down. You're just implying that Jordan needed another top 15 player as his sidekick to win rings.

Curious where you would put Pau Gasol, be careful what you say, cuz you already know where i am going with this.

[midnightpulp]

Somewhere in top 5(for now at least most non-trolls would rank him in there), same calibur as Magic, Kareem, Bird, etc. It's hard to rank players by #2, #3, #4, #5... so I just usually group them by tiers.

The only player that is definitively above Kobe is MJ, the margin is close but is not surmountable at this point in his career. I would be hard-pressed to say anyone else has had a better career than Kobe, and Kobe has at LEAST 3+ years left in the NBA playing at a high level, where he will have a good chance at another ring. You have to realize EVERY single superstar has had terrible performances, disappointments, and opportunities to win more. The reason why Kobe gets dissed on by so much here is because he is the ONLY player in today's game that is in the same calibur as the elite all-time greats. It's easy to examine all the negatives in a player, especially when its happening today.

The fact of the matter is when Kobe's career is over, stuff like getting swept by the Mavericks isn't going to be something that's mentioned when people are trying to compare him with other all-time greats. The guy has 5 rings, and won 2 with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player... no other top 5 player has won a championship without AT LEAST 1 hall-of-famer. He will have a good shot at the all-time scoring leader accomplishment, and like I said earlier has a good chance at winning another ring(s) with a better player next to him.

He still has the opportunity to cement himself at the #2 spot, unlike any other person currently in the top 10. He's the best player of this generation. He's already high on the list, and people haven't even had time to reflect back on the greatness of his career, which is saying something.

Lol. That's where most trolls rank him.

No Kobe hate here, I have him 9 on my personal list, but he simply doesn't have the resume of a Kareem, Magic, Russell, Bird, much less Jordan. Those players, Russell aside (he's hard to pin down with stats, since most of his impact came on the defensive end), have better overall playoff stats, more individual awards (MVPs, Finals MVPs) and won more championships as the lead dog on their respective teams.

[DPG21920]

People saying Pippen is better than Kobe are just foolish. Nothing supports that. To me, Kobe is top 10, but I don't think there is an argument that can keep him out of the top 20. To me he is top 10.

In no particular order:

MJ
Bill Rus
Wilt
magic
kareem
Bird
hakeem
shaq
duncan

Kobe

I don't think an argument can be made for anyone I have listed above him, but to me anyone not on the list, Kobe can be argued for, for the most part.

[rmt]

He sucked this year, yes. But doesnt mean he is over hyped. He is hyped cuz of his accolades, which is well deserve.

You mean accolades like the 1st team all-nba defensive honor he just got. He has not deserved that honor the past few years.

I have him at #9 (before Hakeem) based on the sheer entirety of his career. If you're talking about better player, no way do I choose him over Hakeem. If you're talking about who I'd rather build a franchise around, I'd probably pick Robinson, KG and Moses Malone too before Kobe.

[Mugen]

He's definitely Top 10. Bottom rung.

But if he was still a Charlotte Hornet, then he'd be a spot or two above wherever you put Allen Iverson on your All-Time list, tbh.