Is Ginobili a Hall of Famer?

[Ari Gold]

???

[clambake]

sure, why not?

[Bito Corleone]

If it was just the NBA Hall of Fame, then it would be debatable. However, considering it's the Basketball Hall of Fame, he's a shoo-in.

[BlackSwordsMan]

does hall of fame really matter?

[BanditHiro]

his international career made him a shoo-in.

[Fpoonsie]

Still can't get over the fact that it's not "shoe-in." I've been misusing it for fucking years.

[JamStone]

Maybe. I think it's still up in the air. Sabonis getting in helps his case. I think if Toni Kukoc gets in then Manu gets in too. But I don't think it's a guarantee. I'd like to see him get in.

[ElNono]

lol sons, this is an outrage. Trevor Ariza is 3 times the Hall of Famer that flopper is... The NBA is just rigged. God bless.

[ElNono]

Oops, wrong account...

[Bill_Brasky]

ElNono

[rayray2k8]

As much as JJ Barea is.

[ElNono]

Maybe. I think it's still up in the air. Sabonis getting in helps his case. I think if Toni Kukoc gets in then Manu gets in too. But I don't think it's a guarantee. I'd like to see him get in.

Uh? Manu had a much better career than Kukoc, at all levels.

[ElNono]

But I do agree that it will be more likely once you see people like Sabonis and Oscar Schmidt in there, which are not right now even though most everybody agrees they should be.

[TimmehC]

Uh? Manu had a much better career than Kukoc, at all levels.

Kukoc was pretty damn underrated for most of his career. Dude was also an absolute beast in international comp.

[Bito Corleone]

Still can't get over the fact that it's not "shoe-in." I've been misusing it for fucking years.
You're not the only one, and the irony of it is that "shoe-in" means to get in with great difficulty, rather than the intended use in most situations of "shoo-in" which means with ease.

[z0sa]

Undoubtedly IMHO

[TampaDude]

his international career made him a shoo-in.

^ this

[SpurOutofTownFan]

is your mother a whore?

[JamStone]

Uh? Manu had a much better career than Kukoc, at all levels.

Not really.

[Spursdaone]

I'm a big Ginobili supporter but I don't think he is hall of fame material.

[dude1394]

It's going to be close...Due to rings he certainly deserves it, but no mvps, has he been mvp of the finals??

And his injury issues I think will hurt him a little bit. But as I would say duncan/parker/manu have been the championship "triplets" I've vote him in.

[Pero]

If it was just the NBA Hall of Fame, then it would be debatable. However, considering it's the Basketball Hall of Fame, he's a shoo-in.

If it was just the NBA it wouldn't have been debatable, he just wouldn't get in. If he got that co-MVP in 2005 finals that he should have, it would've been different.

[clambake]

why does anybody give a shit about the hall of fame?

[jacobdrj]

Because there is no NBA Hall of Fame, Manu is in on his international accomplishments alone...

But if we 'pretend' that the NBA is all that the Basketball HoF cares about, than if C-Mull and Joe-D got in, than Manu is gonna be there too...

[jacobdrj]

why does anybody give a shit about the hall of fame?

They players seem to care, sentimentally, after they have been out of the game for a while. Why fans care? That, I have no idea. I think the whole institution is dumb. The stats are there, whether they are recognized by a bunch of sports snobs or not...

It is just something to generate buzz and revenue. A meaningless metric designed to generate emotion where there needs none.

[4>0rings]

Damn, I actually learned something from this board, nice.

[ElNono]

Not really.

Yeah, really.

[JamStone]

Yeah, really.

You are wrong, but that's okay.

[DarrinS]

Oops, wrong account...

:lmao

[DPG21920]

Maybe. I think it's still up in the air. Sabonis getting in helps his case. I think if Toni Kukoc gets in then Manu gets in too. But I don't think it's a guarantee. I'd like to see him get in.

Are you trolling?

[DPG21920]

Olympic Gold medal, Euroleague title & Nba title. Lock.

[DPG21920]

Olympic Gold medal, Euroleague title & Nba title. Lock.

Bill Bradley is the only other one to accomplish this and he is in.

[JamStone]

Are you trolling?

No.

[ElNono]

You are wrong, but that's okay.

I'm right, but it's ok that you don't want to acknowledge it.

You could make the argument they're more or less even at the international level, and I could be probably talked into agreeing with that (depends on how you value beating Team USA since they began fielding NBA players), but with no All-NBA team selections or All-Star selections, Kukoc (who was a great player, BTW) just falls short.

[FkLA]

Is the sky blue? Is the earth round? Is kobe an overrated chucker??

[JamStone]

I'm right, but it's ok that you don't want to acknowledge it.

You could make the argument they're more or less even at the international level, and I could be probably talked into agreeing with that (depends on how you value beating Team USA since they began fielding NBA players), but with no All-NBA team selections or All-Star selections, Kukoc (who was a great player, BTW) just falls short.

The reason why you're wrong is that you said Ginobili was "much better" and "at all levels." That's just wrong.

If you said Ginobili is the better NBA player, I would have not argued.

If you said Ginobili has had the better basketball career, I may have offered some evidence to refute but wouldn't necessarily disagree.

You said "much better," which opens up the debate quite easily.

You said "at all levels," which clearly makes you wrong. Who had a better Euroleague career?

[ElNono]

The reason why you're wrong is that you said Ginobili was "much better" and "at all levels." That's just wrong.

If you said Ginobili is the better NBA player, I would have not argued.

If you said Ginobili has had the better basketball career, I may have offered some evidence to refute but wouldn't necessarily disagree.

You said "much better," which opens up the debate quite easily.

You said "at all levels," which clearly makes you wrong. Who had a better Euroleague career?

I guess I should have been more clear by what I meant by "all levels". I think the Basketball HoF (at least from what I've heard) gauges the NBA career (if any) and International career (if any) as contributing factors for induction... by "all levels" I mean those two levels, as a group of accomplishments on each. I'm sure if we go nitpicking within each group, one player outdid the other in some respect. It's not what I was pointing at though.

I think the international career is more debatable as far as parity, but I still think Manu edges Kukoc with the Gold in the Olympics and being the leader of the first NT to beat Team USA since they began fielding NBA players. There's also the factor of how long each player's career has been in Europe. Kukoc played 6 seasons, while Manu only 4.

[DMC]

why does anybody give a shit about the hall of fame?
This

[LkrFan]

Why is this even a question. Question: is Reggie Miller in the HOF? No. Did Manu have a better statistical career than him? No. This includes Manu's international and NBA play combined. He hasn't. Reggied didn't get in. Why should Manu?

[ElNono]

Why is this even a question. Question: is Reggie Miller in the HOF? No. Did Manu have a better statistical career than him? No. This includes Manu's international and NBA play combined. He hasn't. Reggied didn't get in. Why should Manu?

Reggie will likely be inducted at some point... which is what's being discussed here (unless I missed anything).

[DPG21920]

:lol Jam with the semantic cranky goods.

It's not really that up in the air. Manu is a lockPERIOD.

[JamStone]

Still not "much better." And it doesn't quite make sense to say "at all levels" and mean it to be cumulative. Should have just said "overall basketball career." Doesn't matter how many seasons each played in Europe. Kukoc had a more impressive Euroleague career regardless.

Ginobili has had a great international career. And the gold medal in the 2004 Olympics absolutely carries some major weight on his resume. But let's not qualify it by saying "since Team USA started fielding NBA players." We could also qualify it by saying it was the weakest Team USA since it started fielding NBA players where they didn't send most of the top American players to the Olympics.

Also note that Argentina was not the first national team to beat Team USA in the Olympics since they began fielding NBA players. In that very Olympics, Team USA lost to Puerto Rico and Lithuania before being defeated by Argentina. Team USA already proved to be vulnerable to losing in the Olympcs before the medal rounds.

[DPG21920]

Why is this even a question. Question: is Reggie Miller in the HOF? No. Did Manu have a better statistical career than him? No. This includes Manu's international and NBA play combined. He hasn't. Reggied didn't get in. Why should Manu?

First of all, your switch is broken.

Secondly, terrible argument.

[Giuseppe]

.

Hi, buddy-boy.

tee, hee.

[JamStone]

:lol Jam with the semantic cranky goods.

It's not really that up in the air. Manu is a lockPERIOD.

Wasn't an argument in semantics. After he realized why he was wrong, he tried to make it an argument in semantics by "revising" what he meant. It was clear what he meant was wrong.

Is Kukoc a lock for the HOF too? If you say he's a lock, then I'd agree Ginobili is a lock too. If not, I still think it's debatable.

[DPG21920]

Kukoc (although your hypothesis is correct if TK gets in, so does Manu just because Manu's accolades are greater than TK's, but they have no bearing on one another) isn't an apples to apples comparison.

Bill Bradley is the guy to compare to. He's in.

[DPG21920]

Wasn't an argument in semantics. After he realized why he was wrong, he tried to make it an argument in semantics by "revising" what he meant. It was clear what he meant was wrong.

Is Kukoc a lock for the HOF too? If you say he's a lock, then I'd agree Ginobili is a lock too. If not, I still think it's debatable.

You knew what he meant by "all around" or whatever he said. He was referring to the HOF and what it takes to get in.

Did Kukoc win a Euroleague Title, Olympic Gold and NBA Title? Because Manu is one of only two players to do so and the other one is in.

Manu is a lock and Kukoc has nothing to do with it.

[LkrFan]

First of all, your switch is broken.

Secondly, terrible argument.

:lol - I haven't changed my avatar yet. Switch: OFF. :lol

My argument is good. Why should Manu get in before Reggie Miller? Miller's body of work > Manu's and he didn't get in. Reggie has battled MJ tooth and nail for years (won many battles but lost the wars); ditto for the Bad Boys, great Knick teams, etc. NBA didn't allow that flopping crap Manu gets away with in today's game. In the ruff and tumble '80s, 6'7" 185lb Reggie Miller did his thang. I highly doubt Manu would have fared any better. Reggie Miller game was stellar in the '80s (a real basketball era before the NBA was sissified and watered down with expansion teams) and would have been killer in today's game as well. Can you say the same about Manu in the '80s? Doubtful.

[ElNono]

Still not "much better." And it doesn't quite make sense to say "at all levels" and mean it to be cumulative. Should have just said "overall basketball career." Doesn't matter how many seasons each played in Europe. Kukoc had a more impressive Euroleague career regardless.

You can have "overall basketball career.".. I thought I was clear the first time, but I guess I wasn't.


Ginobili has had a great international career. And the gold medal in the 2004 Olympics absolutely carries some major weight on his resume. But let's not qualify it by saying "since Team USA started fielding NBA players." We could also qualify it by saying it was the weakest Team USA since it started fielding NBA players where they didn't send most of the top American players to the Olympics.

Top players or not, it's something no other team did before them, and they did it right here in the US. It was historical back then and it also had an impact on how Team USA prepared their teams afterwards (especially after the second defeat in 2005). I'll have to dig up an article from back then that commented that when they got back to the hotel after the game, a couple of other teams were waiting for them in the lobby to applaud them.


Also note that Argentina was not the first national team to beat Team USA in the Olympics since they began fielding NBA players. In that very Olympics, Team USA lost to Puerto Rico and Lithuania before being defeated by Argentina. Team USA already proved to be vulnerable to losing in the Olympcs before the medal rounds.

I didn't say 'in the Olimpics'. Ginobili's lead Argentina was the first national team to beat Team USA since they began fielding NBA players in the 2002 World Championship (in Indiana, where Dirk was the MVP).
They're actually the only national team to this day to defeat Team USA twice since they began fielding NBA players (the second time being in Athens).

[DPG21920]

It's not really a matter of all of that. It's just a matter of how the Basketball Hall of Fame works.

I'm not arguing who's better, but there are all kinds of people in the BBHOF that never really did anything professionally.

Manu's total body of work with all that he has won and all of his personal awards makes him a lock. You can argue who is better or worse or that the NBA should have their own HOF, but with how it's currently constructed, Manu is in.

[JamStone]

Kukoc (although your hypothesis is correct if TK gets in, so does Manu just because Manu's accolades are greater than TK's, but they have no bearing on one another) isn't an apples to apples comparison.

Bill Bradley is the guy to compare to. He's in.

Manu's NBA accolades are greater than Kukoc's. I've read time and time again even by Spurs fans that if it's just NBA, Manu does not get in and that he gets in because of his international resume. Even with the Olympic gold medal in 2004, Manu's international accolades are not greater than Kukoc's. That's why the comparison has merit.



You knew what he meant by "all around" or whatever he said. He was referring to the HOF and what it takes to get in.

Did Kukoc win a Euroleague Title, Olympic Gold and NBA Title? Because Manu is one of only two players to do so and the other one is in.

Manu is a lock and Kukoc has nothing to do with it.

Except he didn't say "all around." He said "at all levels."

No, Kukoc does not have an Olympic gold medal. Even taking into consideration the Olympic gold, Kukoc's international career is still at least as impressive as Ginobili's, and that's why he does have to do with whether Manu gets in the HOF.

[JamStone]

You can have "overall basketball career.".. I thought I was clear the first time, but I guess I wasn't.

Not clear at all. Poorly worded if that's what you meant.




Top players or not, it's something no other team did before them, and they did it right here in the US. It was historical back then and it also had an impact on how Team USA prepared their teams afterwards (especially after the second defeat in 2005). I'll have to dig up an article from back then that commented that when they got back to the hotel after the game, a couple of other teams were waiting for them in the lobby to applaud them.


I didn't say 'in the Olimpics'. Ginobili's lead Argentina was the first national team to beat Team USA since they began fielding NBA players in the 2002 World Championship (in Indiana, where Dirk was the MVP).
They're actually the only national team to this day to defeat Team USA twice since they began fielding NBA players (the second time being in Athens).

I apologize. I thought you were referring to the 2004 Olympics.

[DPG21920]

No, Manu's NBA career being better, plus his international career being just as good plus him being one of only two players alive to accomplish a rare feat (no matter if you want to argue about them all individually) makes his body of work more than TK's collectively.

It's the tri-fecta that separates him and makes him a lock and TK not. You can argue whether that is right or wrong, but that's how it is.

[ElNono]

Wasn't an argument in semantics.

I stand by what I said.

[ElNono]

Not clear at all. Poorly worded if that's what you meant.

Poorly worded it is then...

[ElNono]

Let me state that criteria isn't a lock either... Some people were mad that Reggie was not in the ballot for 2011... I feel guys like Sabonis or Schmidt should have easily been in already, but are not.

[LkrFan]

Let me state that criteria isn't a lock either... Some people were mad that Reggie was not in the ballot for 2011... I feel guys like Sabonis or Schmidt should have easily been in already, but are not.

Sabonis should have joined the NBA in his 20's. He would have dominated. For realz. He had mad game.

[ElNono]

Actually, I stand corrected. Sabonis will be inducted in August 2011 and be part of this year's class...

[JamStone]

No, Manu's NBA career being better, plus his international career being just as good plus him being one of only two players alive to accomplish a rare feat (no matter if you want to argue about them all individually) makes his body of work more than TK's collectively.

It's the tri-fecta that separates him and makes him a lock and TK not. You can argue whether that is right or wrong, but that's how it is.

I think it's a great accomplishment and distinction for Manu. But I don't think it guarantees HOF induction.

I'll give you another distinction, although not as exclusive, that is similarly impressive but has not guaranteed induction to the HOF. There are only 7 players in the history of the NBA to have won an NBA title, an Olympic gold, and an NCAA championship. (edit) One of them is not a HOFer, Quinn Buckner.

Like I said, it's an impressive distinction. But it's not the main reason that will get Manu in the HOF. It will be a consideration. It will be his entire international resume that will give him the nod, an international resume that is absolutely rivaled by Toni Kukoc's.

[DPG21920]

Sure, his international career rivals Manu's, but Manu's NBA career is clearly better and the distinction just adds to it.

It's the sum of everything, not the individual parts.

The distinction you listed is impressive, but no where near Manu's IMO. NCAA is no where near the level of Euroleague. Not even close. Then you have to look at their accolades as a whole as well.

[JamStone]

Sure, his international career rivals Manu's, but Manu's NBA career is clearly better and the distinction just adds to it.

It's the sum of everything, not the individual parts.

The distinction you listed is impressive, but no where near Manu's IMO. NCAA is no where near the level of Euroleague. Not even close. Then you have to look at their accolades as a whole as well.


That I can agree with to a great extent.

Like you said, sum of everything, not individual parts, like the NBA, Euroleague championships, Olympic gold distinction. The distinction is not what will get Manu in the Hall if he gets there. It will be his entire career.

That said, I still think it's debatable. And I do truly believe whether Kukoc is inducted to the Hall or not has a great bearing on whether Ginobili gets in. You're free to disagree.

[BRHornet45]

Lmao christ no

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Charles Barkley likened Ginobili's resume to that of Drazen Petrovic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra%C5%BEen_Petrovi%C4%87

Drazen's accolades =



6× European Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Basketball_Player_of_the_Year_Awards):

4× Euroscar Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroscar_Award)
(1986, 1989, 1992, 1993)
2× Mr. Europa Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Europa)
(1986, 1993)


All-NBA Third Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%9393_NBA_season))


Ginobili's accolades =



3× NBA Champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_champions) (2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_Finals), 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NBA_Finals), 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NBA_Finals))
2× NBA All-Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_All-Stars) (2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NBA_All-Star_Game), 2011 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_All-Star_Game))
All-NBA Third Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_NBA_season))
NBA Sixth Man of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Sixth_Man_of_the_Year_Award) (2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_NBA_season))
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Rookie_Team) (2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002%E2%80%9303_NBA_season))
Lega A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serie_A_%28basketball%29) (Italy) MVP (2001)
Euroleague Final Four MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroleague_Final_Four_MVP) (2001)
FIBA Americas Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_Americas_Championship_2001) MVP (2001)
All-Euroleague First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Euroleague_Teams) (2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroleague_2001%E2%80%9302))
Italian Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppa_Italia_di_pallacanestro_maschile) MVP (2002)
Lega A MVP (2002)
FIBA World Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_World_Championship) All-Tournament Team (2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_FIBA_World_Championship))
Olimpia de Oro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olimpia_Award) (2003, 2004 (shared))
FIBA World Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_World_Championship) All-Tournament Team (2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_FIBA_World_Championship))
35 Greatest Euroleague Players (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Greatest_Euroleague_Contributors) (2008)


Drazen was inducted in 2002. It's not that much of a stretch to say Ginobili's accolades are comparable to Drazen's accolades. Drazen has more consistent international accolades, but Ginobili has a nice balance having won at every major level (NBA championship, Euroleague championship, Olympic gold medal).

Had Ginobili been awarded Finals MVP of 2005 like he probably should have, I'd be more inclined to say he has a solid chance.

Ginobili's not a lock, but it's not absurd to say that he has a reasonable shot at the hall of fame if Drazen got in. I mean, it's pretty obvious that Ginobili's not a "first ballot" hall of famer like Kobe or Dirk or Tim Duncan. But, he has a chance. I think the tacit precedent set by Drazen's induction in '02 is testament to that.

[SenorSpur]

Let's looks as some of his accomplisments to date:

MVP of Italian League (twice)
MVP of 2004 Gold Medal-winning Argentina team
Key player and integral part of 3 Spurs championship teams ('03, '05, '07)
2-Time NBA All star, One-time 3rd Team All-NBA honor
NBA 6th Man of the Year

Methinks he's a shoo-in and very-well deserving

[NewcastleKEG]

International vote...... he's getting in. Parker will prob be left out

[SenorSpur]

Charles Barkley likened Ginobili's resume to that of Drazen Petrovic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra%C5%BEen_Petrovi%C4%87

Drazen's accolades =



6× European Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Basketball_Player_of_the_Year_Awards):

4× Euroscar Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroscar_Award)
(1986, 1989, 1992, 1993)
2× Mr. Europa Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Europa)
(1986, 1993)


All-NBA Third Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (1993 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%9393_NBA_season))


Ginobili's accolades =



3× NBA Champion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_champions) (2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NBA_Finals), 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NBA_Finals), 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NBA_Finals))
2× NBA All-Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_All-Stars) (2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NBA_All-Star_Game), 2011 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_All-Star_Game))
All-NBA Third Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-NBA_Team) (2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_NBA_season))
NBA Sixth Man of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Sixth_Man_of_the_Year_Award) (2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_NBA_season))
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Rookie_Team) (2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002%E2%80%9303_NBA_season))
Lega A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serie_A_%28basketball%29) (Italy) MVP (2001)
Euroleague Final Four MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroleague_Final_Four_MVP) (2001)
FIBA Americas Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_Americas_Championship_2001) MVP (2001)
All-Euroleague First Team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Euroleague_Teams) (2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroleague_2001%E2%80%9302))
Italian Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppa_Italia_di_pallacanestro_maschile) MVP (2002)
Lega A MVP (2002)
FIBA World Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_World_Championship) All-Tournament Team (2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_FIBA_World_Championship))
Olimpia de Oro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olimpia_Award) (2003, 2004 (shared))
FIBA World Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_World_Championship) All-Tournament Team (2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_FIBA_World_Championship))
35 Greatest Euroleague Players (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Greatest_Euroleague_Contributors) (2008)


Drazen was inducted in 2002. It's not that much of a stretch to say Ginobili's accolades are comparable to Drazen's accolades. Drazen has more consistent international accolades, but Ginobili has a nice balance having won at every major level (NBA championship, Euroleague championship, Olympic gold medal).

Had Ginobili been awarded Finals MVP of 2005 like he probably should have, I'd be more inclined to say he has a solid chance.

Ginobili's not a lock, but it's not absurd to say that he has a reasonable shot at the hall of fame if Drazen got in. I mean, it's pretty obvious that Ginobili's not a "first ballot" hall of famer like Kobe or Dirk or Tim Duncan. But, he has a chance. I think the tacit precedent set by Drazen's induction in '02 is testament to that.

Looks like you beat me to it. After reading the remaining accolades for Manu, I"ve even more convinced he's a lock for the HOF - and he should be.

[Sean Cagney]

Bball hall of fame yes...... He is.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Sorry I didn't mention Drazen's most important accomplishments -

A star on multiple stages, Petrović earned two silver medals and one bronze in Olympic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_Olympic_Games) basketball, a gold and a bronze in the FIBA World Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_World_Championship), a gold and a bronze in the FIBA European Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroBasket), earned six European Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Basketball_Player_of_the_Year_Awards) awards (four Euroscar Awards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroscar_Award), and was named Mr. Europa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Europa) in basketball twice). In 1985 he received the golden badge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSL_Sport#Golden_badge) award for best athlete of Yugoslavia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_Yugoslavia).
Seeking a bigger arena after his career start in Europe, Petrović joined the National Basketball Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Association) in 1989 as a member of the Portland Trail Blazers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Trail_Blazers). After playing mostly off the bench that year, Petrović experienced a break-out following a trade to the New Jersey Nets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_Nets), starting and becoming one of the league's best shooting guards.



Clearly Drazen's international record (not including the NBA) is more spectacular than Ginobili's international record, but not by much.



Ginobili's 3 NBA rings somewhat makes up for this (if not puts him above Drazen overall, though this is arguable).