How long do you give the Durant-Westbrook tandem before they break up?

[Venti Quattro]

Maximum 2 years. Had they lost earlier I would've given it less than a year.

[Bill_Brasky]

First of all I wanna thank my lord and savior jesus, without him I wouldn't even be here posting in this thread.

I think it'll last.

[Booharv]

15 years. Its weird they don't gel on the court better because they're like BFFs off the court. Almost as homoerotic as the Steve Francis-Cuttino Mobley relationship was tbh.

[JamStone]

7-8 years.

Don't see a big problem. Not all small on-the-court differences between teammates are irreconcilable. I think they'll figure it out. Both guys want to win. Both guys just need a little bit of an ego check to see that it's better if they find a way to work things out.

[ata]

Depends on team's FO. If they are smart, and have some luck, they can keep both until retirement.

[Kyle Orton]

The guy who could be gone a lot quicker than people think is Scotty Brooks. I thought he was a great coach at first but his offensive system, assuming he even has one, is downright terrible and I've never seen a coach call so many bad plays out of timeouts.

[TheMACHINE]

a couple years, then he plays pg for the Lakers.

[Muser]

The guy who could be gone a lot quicker than people think is Scotty Brooks. I thought he was a great coach at first but his offensive system, assuming he even has one, is downright terrible and I've never seen a coach call so many bad plays out of timeouts.

Agree, any good coach would of taken Westbrook out when he was choking the game away in game 3. Shit was ridiculous.

[Venti Quattro]

Bump. I'll still give them two years. But with the way things are turning out, it might be even shorter

[ChrisRichards]

2 years is a good guess. But it all depends how far they go. If they regress the following year and after that, meaning anything less than a WCF appearance then I can see some moaning and and finger pointing in the off season which will lead to a break up.

[Giuseppe]

OKC wants it easy. They're finding out firsthand what it has taken Dallas a lifetime to realize & acknowledge:::it ain't easy. OKC is of the belief that winning is as easy as talking about it on an NBA Forum. Dallas has already been thru that baptism.

[Venti Quattro]

& Durant thinks humility can win him a championship so he lets Westbrook run havoc on OKC.

[100%duncan]

when either westbrook's contract expires or before expiration they will trade him

[Giuseppe]

^He's about as humble as the next NBA asshole is. That's a Media concoction to shield him at loss. He'd be wise to tell Media to go back and fuck their mother some more.

Then, after that:::get on with it. Because Media is also telling him this is just the beginning.

Uh, huh.

[jacobdrj]

If it goes the way of KG and Marburry squabbling over nothing, another year or 2. If it goes Mobley/Francis, until the FO realizes it isn't working...

[Killakobe81]

If it goes the way of KG and Marburry squabbling over nothing, another year or 2. If it goes Mobley/Francis, until the FO realizes it isn't working...

This. Great post.

[jag]

& Durant thinks humility can win him a championship so he lets Westbrook run havoc on OKC.

It's not an act to appear humble. He has an unassuming personality. He's a quiet guy and OKC is the perfect place for him. He may or may not be humble, but he's just a quiet guy. It's not something he's out there trying to give off. Westbrook has a more dominant personality and he starts to feed off the media hype. The guy thinks he's just as good as Derek Rose and probably can't figure out why people have a problem with him taking Derek Rose shots.

[Kyle Orton]

With Durant, it's pretty clear he forces the humble image. The thing where he insisted Sefolosha and Kristic be on the cover of SI was ridiculous.

[ChrisRichards]

Westbrook is as good as Rose, the only reason why people are not complaining about Rose and his atrocious 40% Fg playoff shooting is because he doesn't have a guy like KD in his team. Don't let that media based MVP trophy fool you.

[jag]

With Durant, it's pretty clear he forces the humble image. The thing where he insisted Sefolosha and Kristic be on the cover of SI was ridiculous.

I think a lot of media coverage that focuses directly on him makes him uncomfortable sometimes. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but I think it factors in when he starts building up his teammates.

There are a lot of players who go through the motions when it comes to being humble, I don't get the feeling that Durant is one of them. His career decisions lead me to believe he's more of a quiet guy who doesn't mind media attention, but doesn't seek it.

[Killakobe81]

I do think Media is setting up Durant to be the anti-Kobe, Wade or Lebron ... I dont hold him liable for the league or media agenda. On top of that, the quiet way he re-signed sorta backs up JAG's assertion. However Cully is right for calling out Durant, sure he steeped up huge for TEAM USA ...bu these stakes are bigger.

[djohn2oo8]

Westbrook is as good as Rose, the only reason why people are not complaining about Rose and his atrocious 40% Fg playoff shooting is because he doesn't have a guy like KD in his team. Don't let that media based MVP trophy fool you.

Westbrook has Rose's athleticism, but that's it. and Rose knows when to pass the ball. Also, Chicago pretty much depends on Rose alot, as OKC doesn't need to depend on Westbrook like he thinks they should

[jag]

I do think Media is setting up Durant to be the anti-Kobe, Wade or Lebron ... I dont hold him liable for the league or media agenda. On top of that, the quiet way he re-signed sorta backs up JAG's assertion. However Cully is right for calling out Durant, sure he steeped up huge for TEAM USA ...bu these stakes are bigger.

I think his demeanor is a positive thing when it comes to team chemistry, but it also limits him with respect to taking over games and demanding the ball. If Durant had a stronger presence I think Westbrook would have an easier time deferring to him and taking a backseat.

[ChrisRichards]

Westbrook has Rose's athleticism, but that's it. and Rose knows when to pass the ball. Also, Chicago pretty much depends on Rose alot, as OKC doesn't need to depend on Westbrook like he thinks they should
Eh, I don't know.I agree that Rose is a better and much willing passer but I think Westbrook is a better defender so it pretty much even things out a bit. one thing going for Rose at the moment is his attitude and he does have pretty good head above his shoulders, Westbrook not so much that's why his flaws are magnified. I saw plenty of Rose this year and tbh, I'm just not impressed to a point where You can clearly put him above Westbrook or any other PG for that matter. Just like Westbrook, Rose has been pretty bad in the playoffs efficiency wise and he also made some horrible decisions that has been costly for the Bulls (see Game 2 of ECF)


With Durant, it's pretty clear he forces the humble image. The thing where he insisted Sefolosha and Kristic be on the cover of SI was ridiculous.

[ChrisRichards]

And I agree with DOK, that was indeed ridiculous. I Started hating that kid on a personal level after that statement.

[Muser]

lol hate on a personal level.

[jag]

Eh, I don't know.I agree that Rose is a better and much willing passer but I think Westbrook is a better defender so it pretty much even things out a bit. one thing going for Rose at the moment is his attitude and he does have pretty good head above his shoulders, Westbrook not so much that's why his flaws are magnified. I saw plenty of Rose this year and tbh, I'm just not impressed to a point where You can clearly put him above Westbrook or any other PG for that matter. Just like Westbrook, Rose has been pretty bad in the playoffs efficiency wise and he also made some horrible decisions that has been costly for the Bulls (see Game 2 of ECF)

Not sure how much importance you place on Defensive Rating (points allowed per 100 possessions) but Derrick Rose shows better in that area with a 103 rating, while Westbrook has a 107 rating.

Keep in mind that Rose is giving that kind of effort on the defensive end while also being the #1 scoring option on the offensive end. He's also facing defenses that are tailored to shutting him down. Westbrook has the advantage of playing defenses tailored to shutting down Durant. With those things being considered, Rose still has a better Effective FG% as well as a better True Shooting %.

Westbrook: True Shooting %: 53.8 Eff FG%: 45.4
Rose: True Shooting %: 55.0 Eff FG% 48.5

[Kyle Orton]

individual defensive rating is a horrible stat largely based off how the good team you're on is defensively/a bunch of other weird things. According to defensive rating 2007 Amare = 2007 Bowen on defense.

[jag]

individual defensive rating is a horrible stat largely based off how the good team you're on is defensively/a bunch of other weird things. According to defensive rating 2007 Amare = 2007 Bowen on defense.

It's difficult to use DRating to compare players of different positions. That becomes apparent when you take into account the type of players being guarded. Bowen would guard the premier scorers in the Leauge. Amare, not so much.

With players of the same position it becomes a little bit easier (especially PGs and PFs/Centers). While Rose and Westbrook play in different conferences, both conferences have solid players at the PG position. Also, PGs are almost always forced into guarding opposing PGs. That's not the case with many SGs, SFs and combo players. Bowen would go from guarding Jason Terry to Dirk. Same with Sefolosha.

DRating isn't so blurry when it comes to comparing two Point Guards with similar athleticism, size and playing styles.

[ChrisRichards]

Not sure how much importance you place on Defensive Rating (points allowed per 100 possessions) but Derrick Rose shows better in that area with a 103 rating, while Westbrook has a 107 rating.

Keep in mind that Rose is giving that kind of effort on the defensive end while also being the #1 scoring option on the offensive end. He's also facing defenses that are tailored to shutting him down. Westbrook has the advantage of playing defenses tailored to shutting down Durant. With those things being considered, Rose still has a better Effective FG% as well as a better True Shooting %.

Westbrook: True Shooting %: 53.8 Eff FG%: 45.4
Rose: True Shooting %: 55.0 Eff FG% 48.5

I'm going to take that individual defensive rating with a grain of salt and as Kyle has pointed out, team defense plays a large role in it. It's no surprise Rose ranks pretty good considering the Bulls are a great defensive team, so good actually they're able to mask Boozers defensive deficiency.


I'm not going to say that Westbrook is leaps ahead of Rose defensively, but I like Westbrooks defensive instinct more. Keep in mind when he was in UCLA, defense was one of his primary strengths.

[Kyle Orton]

It's difficult to use DRating to compare players of different positions. That becomes apparent when you take into account the type of players being guarded. Bowen would guard the premier scorers in the Leauge. Amare, not so much.

With players of the same position it becomes a little bit easier (especially PGs and PFs/Centers). While Rose and Westbrook play in different conferences, both conferences have solid players at the PG position. Also, PGs are almost always forced into guarding opposing PGs. That's not the case with many SGs, SFs and combo players. Bowen would go from guarding Jason Terry to Dirk. Same with Sefolosha.

DRating isn't so blurry when it comes to comparing two Point Guards with similar athleticism, size and playing styles.
I'll agree to disagree but I actually agree with you about Westbrook's D. In 2010, he was a great 1 on 1 defender who never did anything stupid on that end and never took unnecessary risks. These days, he goes for retarded steals, is constantly out of position, and is almost like Steve Nash when he's playing defense where as it seems like he's thinking more about getting back on offense than he is about getting the stop.

[jag]

I'll agree to disagree but I actually agree with you about Westbrook's D. In 2010, he was a great 1 on 1 defender who never did anything stupid on that end and never took unnecessary risks. These days, he goes for retarded steals, is constantly out of position, and is almost like Steve Nash when he's playing defense where as it seems like he's thinking more about getting back on offense than he is about getting the stop.

That's pretty much what it comes down to. You'd think Rose would be more worried about getting back on offense, but it's actually the other way around. This wasn't so much a debate about either player being great defensively, it was a debate about which player is better than the other defensively.

DRating has its flaws, but it's objective. Regardless, here are FG% they allowed opposing players over the course of the season:

Derrick Rose - 37.6%
Westbrook - 42.6%

The Bulls are better defensively so maybe isolation plays are a better indicator of individual defensive performance. Isolation FG% allowed:

Derrick Rose - 32.9%
Westbrook - 38.3%

Both actually have good numbers defensively. With their size and athleticism they probably should have those kind of numbers. But there's really no doubt who the better performer is on defense. And that's surprising considering the offensive load that Rose has to carry.

[ChrisRichards]

Not disagreeing with you JaG but have you seen Kobe's defensive numbers against SG's this year? Someone pulled up a stat in RealGm not too long ago defending Kobe's 1st team Defense team selection and IIRC he ranked first among SG's when it comes to opponent FG%.

[jag]

Not disagreeing with you JaG but have you seen Kobe's defensive numbers against SG's this year? Someone pulled up a stat in RealGm not too long ago defending Kobe's 1st team Defense team selection and IIRC he ranked first among SG's when it comes to opponent FG%.

What stat would you like to go by? Stats can lie, especially when you find conflicting stats. But every stat I've seen shows Rose is a better defensive player than Westbrook. At some point you have to realize where these stats actually come from.

Rose's team defense is better. Rose's individual defense is better. Kobe has nothing to do with this argument. This is a head-to-head comparison between two players.

[ChrisRichards]

I don't like to go by stats when comparing two players defensively. There are far too many variables there not explained in details. Kobe's defensive rating pretty much shows you the inconsistency involving this metrics, that's why I brought him up, I just poked a hole in this defensive rating logic so take it fwiw. You just can't rely on these when it has been proven time and time again that there are too many variables involved to determine it's a fact.

[ALVAREZ6]

Westbrook is as good as Rose, the only reason why people are not complaining about Rose and his atrocious 40% Fg playoff shooting is because he doesn't have a guy like KD in his team. Don't let that media based MVP trophy fool you.

Retard.

[ALVAREZ6]

It isn't even worth discussing, not even necessary to debate stats in this case. You just observe the two players and immediately realize Rose is superior. If OKC could magically convince the Bulls that Westbrook is quality, they would trade him for Rose in a heartbeat without even doing statistical analysis, watching film, or any other way they evaluate players.

[Spurtacus]

They need a better coach. Vanilla offense sucks.

[ChrisRichards]

:lol this Rose kid is so overrated. Superior my ass, stfu you Beaner.

[Wennington]

:lol this Rose kid is so overrated. Superior my ass, stfu you Beaner.
:lmao:lmao..