These idiots never learn

[Crookshanks]

A Renewed Crackdown on Redlining
In the wake of the subprime implosion, the Obama Administration has stepped up its scrutiny of disadvantaged neighborhoods' credit access
By Clea Benson

Community activists in St. Louis became concerned a couple of years ago that local banks weren't offering credit to the city's poor and African American residents. So they formed a group called the St. Louis Equal Housing and Community Reinvestment Alliance and began writing complaint letters to federal regulators.

Apparently, someone in Washington took notice. The Federal Reserve has cited one of the group's targets, Midwest BankCentre, a small bank that has been operating in St. Louis's predominantly white, middle-class suburbs for over a century, for failing to issue home mortgages or open branches in disadvantaged areas. Although executives at the bank say they don't discriminate, Midwest BankCentre's latest annual report says it is in the process of negotiating a settlement with the U.S. Justice Dept. over its lending practices.

Lawyers and bank consultants say regulators and the Obama Administration are scrutinizing financial institutions for a practice that last drew attention before the rise of subprime lending: redlining. The term dates from the 1930s, when the Federal Housing Administration drew up maps using red ink to delineate inner-city neighborhoods considered too risky for lending. Congress later passed laws banning lending discrimination on the basis of race and other characteristics. "The agencies have refocused on redlining because, in the wake of the subprime explosion and sudden implosion, they are looking at these disadvantaged neighborhoods and not seeing any credit access," says Jo Ann Barefoot, co-chair at Treliant Risk Advisors in Washington, D.C., which consults with banks on regulatory issues.

The 1977 Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) requires banks to make loans in all the areas they serve, not just the wealthy ones. A Bloomberg analysis found the percentage of banks earning negative ratings from regulators on CRA exams has risen from 1.45 percent in 2007 to more than 6 percent in the first quarter of this year.

At the Justice Dept., a new 20-person unit dedicated to fair lending issues received a record number of discrimination referrals from regulators in 2010 and has dozens of open cases, according to a recent agency report. Potential penalties can reach into the millions of dollars. "We are using every tool in our arsenal to combat lending discrimination," Thomas E. Perez, the assistant attorney general for the Civil Rights Div., told a conference of community development advocates in Washington in April.

To some banks the crackdown has come as a surprise, say consultants and lawyers representing financial institutions in discussions with regulators. Like Midwest BankCentre, some lenders are being cited for failing to operate in minority and low-income census tracts near their branches, even when they have never done business there before. "If you put your branches only in upper-income areas, the regulators are not accepting that anymore," says Warren W. Traiger, a lawyer at BuckleySandler in New York, which advises banks on fair lending issues.

Mortgage refinancing activity doubled in white neighborhoods but dropped sharply in minority neighborhoods in a sample of major U.S. cities in 2008 and 2009, according to Paying More for the American Dream, an April study by a group of seven community development nonprofits. "The pendulum has swung back too far the other way," says Kevin Stein, associate director of the California Reinvestment Coalition in San Francisco, one of the report's authors.

Bank lobbyists say the stepped-up government scrutiny could backfire if financial institutions decide to shrink their operations rather than yield to pressure to do business in areas that don't make sense for them. "It would do a disservice to communities for a bank to suddenly pull back," says Robert Rowe, vice-president and senior counsel at the American Bankers Assn.

Meanwhile, in Missouri, things are starting to change. Midwest BankCentre Chairman Ronald T. Barnes recently announced the bank would open a branch in Pagedale, a town near St. Louis that is predominantly African American.

The bottom line: Lenders have been caught off guard by stepped-up enforcement of laws to prevent discrimination against minorities and the poor.

==================================

:bang :bang :bang This is insane! Don't these idiots in Washington ever learn from their mistakes? We're still suffering from the effects of the sub-prime mortgage mess, and they now want banks to start lending more money to poor minorities. My head is going to explode!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ElNono]

I'm not sure I understand what the OP is complaining about...

'lending to minorities/poor' isn't what caused the sub-prime mortgage mess, IMO.

If only the banks weren't TBTF and didn't look for a handout when their gambles failed...

[clambake]

you don't know crookskanks. she's a bloated big haired phony christian that clutches her purse at the sign of any color.

[Crookshanks]

The sub-prime mess was caused by banks and mortgage companies being forced to loan money to people they knew were poor credit risks and, therefore, more likely to default on the loans. The lending companies then packaged the risky loans and sold them. People defaulted and the whole house of cards came tumbling down.

Bottom line: people who are a credit risk shouldn't be given a loan - and it doesn't matter what color you are.

[clambake]

forced? what a dumbass.

[baseline bum]

:lmao

[DMX7]

The sub-prime mess was caused by banks and mortgage companies being forced to loan money to people they knew were poor credit risks and, therefore, more likely to default on the loans. The lending companies then packaged the risky loans and sold them.

... and then credit rating agencies rated them AAA and i-bankers sold credit default swaps on them to insure against losses thus creating systemic risk across the entire financial industry, and then it all collapsed.

Fact is there would have just been a "sub-prime mortgage crisis" and not an "every major bank on Wall Street threatening to collapse crisis" if it weren't for shady bankers.

If they didn't securitize sub-prime mortgages, they would have found something else. I hardly blame the borrowers for that.

[clambake]

why didn't you just start a thread called "minorities suck"?

[Wild Cobra]

The sub-prime mess was caused by banks and mortgage companies being forced to loan money to people they knew were poor credit risks and, therefore, more likely to default on the loans. The lending companies then packaged the risky loans and sold them. People defaulted and the whole house of cards came tumbling down.

Bottom line: people who are a credit risk shouldn't be given a loan - and it doesn't matter what color you are.
I'll probably hurt you case by agreeing with you.

Sorry.

[clambake]

forced lol

[ElNono]

The sub-prime mess was caused by banks and mortgage companies being forced to loan money to people they knew were poor credit risks and, therefore, more likely to default on the loans. The lending companies then packaged the risky loans and sold them. People defaulted and the whole house of cards came tumbling down.

Actually, it was nothing like that. Banks were more than willing to lend in order to create more of those junk mortgages which they sold as AAA rated instruments. The entire thing a huge scam which us taxpayers had to bail them out of.


Bottom line: people who are a credit risk shouldn't be given a loan - and it doesn't matter what color you are.

Dumb people like you are part of the reason why banks keep on raping everybody.

People who are a credit risk should be offered loans tailored to their credit history/rating. Much like everyone else.

[ElNono]

I'll probably hurt you case by agreeing with you.

Sorry.

We went through this already. You were wrong then, and nothing changed.

[EVAY]

Actually, it was nothing like that. Banks were more than willing to lend in order to create more of those junk mortgages which they sold as AAA rated instruments. The entire thing a huge scam which us taxpayers had to bail them out of.



Dumb people like you are part of the reason why banks keep on raping everybody.

People who are a credit risk should be offered loans tailored to their credit history/rating. Much like everyone else.

You were far more civil in your response than I would have been.

Banks were dying to get people, any people, with any credit history, of any color at all, to accept mortgage loans. They did this so tht they could get the fees for processing the loans. That 's how they made the money. They had ZERO risk from the bad credit histories of these people because they didn't hold the mortgages...they sold them.

[Wild Cobra]

You were far more civil in your response than I would have been.

Banks were dying to get people, any people, with any credit history, of any color at all, to accept mortgage loans. They did this so tht they could get the fees for processing the loans. That 's how they made the money. They had ZERO risk from the bad credit histories of these people because they didn't hold the mortgages...they sold them.
But that would have never happened if their weren't entities out there to buy these bad loans.

[EVAY]

The assertion that the poor, dear banks were bullied into providing loans for which they had no risk is a complete travesty. It is promulgated by people whose political agendas have long-since overtaken their ability to use clear thinking.

[EVAY]

But that would have never happened if their weren't entities out there to buy these bad loans.

Of course there were entities that bought the loans...entities bought them, packaged them, made derivative markets out of them, and sold them to investors.

What does any of that have to do with the OP's erroneous assertion that it was the banks being forced to lend to unqualified minorities that prompted the housing fiasco?

A. Banks were not forced to lend to subprime buyers. They wanted to do it.

B. The market for mortgage loans was created by wall street as a financial product to be bought and sold.

[Wild Cobra]

Of course there were entities that bought the loans...entities bought them, packaged them, made derivative markets out of them, and sold them to investors.

What does any of that have to do with the OP's erroneous assertion that it was the banks being forced to lend to unqualified minorities that prompted the housing fiasco?

A. Banks were not forced to lend to subprime buyers. They wanted to do it.

B. The market for mortgage loans was created by wall street as a financial product to be bought and sold.
I could be wrong here, but I don't think the legal framework was in place to package up these high risk loans until political correctness found it as a solution.

[DMX7]

I could be wrong here, but I don't think the legal framework was in place to package up these high risk loans until political correctness found it as a solution.

what?

[EVAY]

what?

+1

[boutons_deux]

"sub-prime mess was caused by banks and mortgage companies being forced to loan money to people they knew were poor credit risks"

YOU LIE

govt can't for the lenders to modify their shitty loans!

govt can't force the lenders to lend!

The lenders lent to unqualified borrowers, pocketed their fees, and flipped the toxic mortgages into the financial rabbit hole. The lenders didn't care if the borrowers were unqualified, because the lenders didn't have to service the toxic mortgages.

"political correctness found it as a solution."

:lol WC spewing his fantastic shit based on his ideological fantasies.

[boutons_deux]

CRA, blacks, old people, political correcteness! :lol :lol :lol etc had fuck all to with toxic mortgages.

That's all a pile of stinking lies as smokescreen to hide the real culprits, the lenders. The majority of toxic loans were written by UNREGULATED private-money lenders and UNREGULATED subsidiaries of regulated banks, meaning govt had NO REGULATORY/CRA control over them.

[MannyIsGod]

The sub-prime mess was caused by banks and mortgage companies being forced to loan money to people they knew were poor credit risks and, therefore, more likely to default on the loans. The lending companies then packaged the risky loans and sold them. People defaulted and the whole house of cards came tumbling down.

Bottom line: people who are a credit risk shouldn't be given a loan - and it doesn't matter what color you are.

Wow you couldn't be more wrong if you tried to be.

:lol @ being forced.

[MannyIsGod]

I'll probably hurt you case by agreeing with you.

Sorry.

There's no case. Anyone who believes that is pretty god damn oblivious of the facts.

[MannyIsGod]

Actually, it was nothing like that. Banks were more than willing to lend in order to create more of those junk mortgages which they sold as AAA rated instruments. The entire thing a huge scam which us taxpayers had to bail them out of.



Dumb people like you are part of the reason why banks keep on raping everybody.

People who are a credit risk should be offered loans tailored to their credit history/rating. Much like everyone else.


You were far more civil in your response than I would have been.

Banks were dying to get people, any people, with any credit history, of any color at all, to accept mortgage loans. They did this so tht they could get the fees for processing the loans. That 's how they made the money. They had ZERO risk from the bad credit histories of these people because they didn't hold the mortgages...they sold them.

Not only that, but sub prime loans were so great for the banks they put people who had no business being in loans that harsh into them fraudulently. This thread shows how fucking dumb people are.

[MannyIsGod]

I could be wrong here, but I don't think the legal framework was in place to package up these high risk loans until political correctness found it as a solution.

What the flying fuck? WTF does political correctness have to do with people smart enough to fuck over a lot of others coming up with derivativeness?

You might as well start all your posts with I am wrong.

[MannyIsGod]

The warped view of what caused the financial crisis amazes me. Some of you will find any fucking way to blame the poor. I tried to find a nice way to respond here but the fact of the matter is that Crookshanks is a blind idiot who will believe anything if it places blame on liberals, minorities, or the poor.

Its a damn shame we don't have a way to blame the gays or abortion for the financial crisis either.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, these idiots never learn.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

[ChuckD]

I could be wrong here, but I don't think the legal framework was in place to package up these high risk loans until political correctness found it as a solution.

Wall St is political correctness? Because that's who found it as a solution.

[Blake]

You might as well start all your posts with I am wrong.

Lol.

He basically did in this thread by admitting to hurting her case.

[Wild Cobra]

The "force" comes from lenders being scrutinized for any little thing that can be assumed to be racial bias. Lenders have to create packages that they can still see black ink with rather than red ink to meet these quota's that become real, even though they are stated as such.

[ChumpDumper]

The "force" comes from lenders being scrutinized for any little thing that can be assumed to be racial bias.What does that mean? What are the consequences they faced?

[MannyIsGod]

The "force" comes from lenders being scrutinized for any little thing that can be assumed to be racial bias. Lenders have to create packages that they can still see black ink with rather than red ink to meet these quota's that become real, even though they are stated as such.

:lmao

Just stop asshole. As much as you and your racist friends would love for it to be the case, the financial crisis was not even remotely caused by enforcing fair lending.

[MannyIsGod]

Fuck its amazing to me how fucking stupid some of you are.

[DMX7]

Lenders have to create packages that they can still see black ink with rather than red ink to meet these quota's that become real, even though they are stated as such.

Link? :lol

[Wild Cobra]

Link? :lol
Have you never seen people CYA under the threat of investigation?

Come on man...

It happens in real life regularly.

[ChumpDumper]

What were they afraid of being investigated?

What were the consequences?

[CuckingFunt]

Its a damn shame we don't have a way to blame the gays or abortion for the financial crisis either.

Quitter.

[Crookshanks]

Geez people! I stated an opinion, which many people share, and you all act like I killed someone. Do any of you ever think about how hurtful your comments can be? You use profanity and obscenities and call people ugly names - just because they have a different opinion.

Too many of you think you're experts on every subject (Manny) and you really don't care to have a civil discussion. I haven't been posting much anymore because it's just not worth it to have people be so mean and hateful. Now - after this thread, I think I'm done. I have enough crap in my life already. You guys just prove what a miserable and depressing place this world is now.

[Andrew Cunanan]

Geez people! I stated an opinion, which many people share, and you all act like I killed someone. Do any of you ever think about how hurtful your comments can be? You use profanity and obscenities and call people ugly names - just because they have a different opinion.

Too many of you think you're experts on every subject (Manny) and you really don't care to have a civil discussion. I haven't been posting much anymore because it's just not worth it to have people be so mean and hateful. Now - after this thread, I think I'm done. I have enough crap in my life already. You guys just prove what a miserable and depressing place this world is now.

You won't be missed.

[Nbadan]

Manny is an idiot, but Freddy and Fannie were doing what private lenders started Crooky....


Boehner also repeated familiar Republican political criticisms that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two government mortgage companies, “triggered the whole meltdown” of the U.S. financial system.

That differs from the conclusions earlier this year of the Democratic majority on the congressionally appointed Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission. It reported that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac “participated in the expansion of subprime and other risky mortgages, but they followed rather than led Wall Street and other lenders in the rush for fool’s gold.”

bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-11/boehner-s-views-on-economy-contradicted-by-indicators-studies.html)

[ElNono]

Geez people! I stated an opinion, which many people share, and you all act like I killed someone. Do any of you ever think about how hurtful your comments can be? You use profanity and obscenities and call people ugly names - just because they have a different opinion.

Cry me a river. Your OP reeks of ignorance, and there's really no excuse, since WH and others have provided a boatload of threads in this very forum that addresses the sub-prime mortgage scam, from a lot of different political angles, coupled with news sources from all political sides, which could never lead you to conclude that the poor or minorities caused the financial meltdown.

Perhaps you, and the 'many people' (completely unsubstantiated, much like the OP) would actually have an informed opinion, as opposed to repeating something they heard, we would be having a civil discussion.

Here's an idea: Instead of wasting time posting how everybody is so mean, spend that time getting informed.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol Dan is still butthurt. Awesome.

As for Crookshanks, there's there door. Goodbye.

[TDMVPDPOY]

nothin beats cheating the system, lending money to those who were geared to the bone and continue to do so as long the commission comes in...then selling the mortgages in units offloading them to the private sector managed funds to investors

[boutons_deux]

"Some of you will find any fucking way to blame the poor"

... blame the unions, so let's screw them out of their CONTRACTS

... blame LGBT for 9/11 and Kartrina, so let's screw them out of civil rights.

... blame Human-Americans, so let's screw them out of everything.

... blame the teachers for failed school systems, so let's screw them and destroy the public school system (which is really screw-the-blacks-and-browns racism).

... VRWC blames anybody and everybody except the VRWC criminals themselves.

and the VRWC-screwed bubbas, sheeple, red-staters, Bible-thumpers, "Christians" fall for the VRWC lies every time.

[boutons_deux]

"I stated an opinion, which many people share"

You parroted a VRWC talking point/propapganda, blaming the poor and/or the guvmint for the financial crisis, when it was predatory lenders WILLINGLY, AGGRESSIVELY writing bad mortgages while ignoring F&F rules about qualifying borrowers.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Geez people! I stated an opinion, which many people share, and you all act like I killed someone. Do any of you ever think about how hurtful your comments can be? You use profanity and obscenities and call people ugly names - just because they have a different opinion.

Too many of you think you're experts on every subject (Manny) and you really don't care to have a civil discussion. I haven't been posting much anymore because it's just not worth it to have people be so mean and hateful. Now - after this thread, I think I'm done. I have enough crap in my life already. You guys just prove what a miserable and depressing place this world is now.

it wasn't a very well thought out opinion

[Blake]

The "force" comes from lenders being scrutinized for any little thing that can be assumed to be racial bias.

does the force flow through all lenders or is it found by doing a blood test?

[Blake]

Do any of you ever think about how hurtful your comments can be? You use profanity and obscenities and call people ugly names


I hope Zach Randolph gets hit by a bus. I really, really hate that smug porky pig. I've always hated him - I want him to die a painful death.

hurtful. :cry

[Soul_Patch]

While i agree, people were rooked into bad loans. One lingering question i always have is where in the hell is the personal responsibility here? They didnt have to take the bad loan, it was pretty easy to take a moment while you are financing one of the biggest purchases you will ever make, to see exactly how it all works, and what the future may hold.

When we bought our first house in 2004, we were offered a variable rate loan. Our loan officer went on and on about how great it would be, how are mortgage payments would only be 300 a month!! Then he half heartedly mentioned the regular old fixed rate mortgage. with a payment about 3x that. Wow, how does this all work?!?, we thought.

We took all the info home and looked it over. Realized the ARM wasn't for us, and made our decision.

Why couldnt all these helpless defaulters have done the same thing? Is it that they were so hungry for anything they could get, that they just signed without research? In my opinion that is just as much on their shoulders as it is on the banker who pushed it. I mean, shame on the banker for not making them aware of the risks, but shame on the buyer for not being more educated about what they were doing.

Why is there no sense of personal responsibility??

[EVAY]

Geez people! I stated an opinion, which many people share, and you all act like I killed someone. Do any of you ever think about how hurtful your comments can be? You use profanity and obscenities and call people ugly names - just because they have a different opinion.

Too many of you think you're experts on every subject (Manny) and you really don't care to have a civil discussion. I haven't been posting much anymore because it's just not worth it to have people be so mean and hateful. Now - after this thread, I think I'm done. I have enough crap in my life already. You guys just prove what a miserable and depressing place this world is now.

Did you read the title of your own thread?

Hypocrisy much?

[Soul_Patch]

Geez people! I stated an opinion, which many people share, and you all act like I killed someone. Do any of you ever think about how hurtful your comments can be? You use profanity and obscenities and call people ugly names - just because they have a different opinion.

Too many of you think you're experts on every subject (Manny) and you really don't care to have a civil discussion. I haven't been posting much anymore because it's just not worth it to have people be so mean and hateful. Now - after this thread, I think I'm done. I have enough crap in my life already. You guys just prove what a miserable and depressing place this world is now.

Belittling people and/or being rude on an internet message board is a good way to boost the ego, with little to no chance of being refuted in any meaningful way (you get refuted, you just sling insults and post more wiki's).

Manny has mastered this, it seems to work well for him.

welcome to the internet.

[ElNono]

While i agree, people were rooked into bad loans. One lingering question i always have is where in the hell is the personal responsibility here? They didnt have to take the bad loan, it was pretty easy to take a moment while you are financing one of the biggest purchases you will ever make, to see exactly how it all works, and what the future may hold.

When we bought our first house in 2004, we were offered a variable rate loan. Our loan officer went on and on about how great it would be, how are mortgage payments would only be 300 a month!! Then he half heartedly mentioned the regular old fixed rate mortgage. with a payment about 3x that. Wow, how does this all work?!?, we thought.

We took all the info home and looked it over. Realized the ARM wasn't for us, and made our decision.

Why couldnt all these helpless defaulters have done the same thing? Is it that they were so hungry for anything they could get, that they just signed without research? In my opinion that is just as much on their shoulders as it is on the banker who pushed it. I mean, shame on the banker for not making them aware of the risks, but shame on the buyer for not being more educated about what they were doing.

Why is there no sense of personal responsibility??

I'm not going to excuse borrowers that didn't do their homework, but lenders know a lot better than that. People borrowing more than they can pay back, defaulting on their debt and getting their property foreclosed isn't a new occurrence. It's part of the system and has happened since credit has been offered. It has happened to all kind of people. It hasn't brought down the financial system.

Lenders have no excuses because they have a fairly large set of data to make a fairly decent determination of what the loan should be and to make decisions based on that data. When I had no credit history at all, my first line of credit was $250.

There's no way that lenders didn't know what they were issuing, and the fact that they couldn't stop issuing these junk loans fast enough just shows you how systemic the scam was.

[clambake]

bankers had a definite plan, void of personal moral.

home buyers were compelled by owning, and the dream of dumping their landlord.

[Blake]

Belittling people and/or being rude on an internet message board is a good way to boost the ego, with little to no chance of being refuted in any meaningful way (you get refuted, you just sling insults and post more wiki's).

Manny has mastered this, it seems to work well for him.

welcome to the internet.

Crookshanks is no stranger to belittling people for their opinions, but her opinions are usually refuted based on real facts.

welcome to the political forum

[ElNono]

http://i53.tinypic.com/poger.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

While i agree, people were rooked into bad loans. One lingering question i always have is where in the hell is the personal responsibility here? They didnt have to take the bad loan, it was pretty easy to take a moment while you are financing one of the biggest purchases you will ever make, to see exactly how it all works, and what the future may hold.

When we bought our first house in 2004, we were offered a variable rate loan. Our loan officer went on and on about how great it would be, how are mortgage payments would only be 300 a month!! Then he half heartedly mentioned the regular old fixed rate mortgage. with a payment about 3x that. Wow, how does this all work?!?, we thought.

We took all the info home and looked it over. Realized the ARM wasn't for us, and made our decision.

Why couldnt all these helpless defaulters have done the same thing? Is it that they were so hungry for anything they could get, that they just signed without research? In my opinion that is just as much on their shoulders as it is on the banker who pushed it. I mean, shame on the banker for not making them aware of the risks, but shame on the buyer for not being more educated about what they were doing.

Why is there no sense of personal responsibility??

The personal responsibility came when those people lost their houses. Its never going to be their fault the economy collapsed because they had no say so in the banks offering bad loans everywhere, they had no role in the derivates being formed and used to package these loans, they had no role in the CDS being bought by the same companies selling the MBS because they expected and bet on their own products failing, and they sure as hell had no role in the ratings agencies selling AAA ratings.

[MannyIsGod]

Belittling people and/or being rude on an internet message board is a good way to boost the ego, with little to no chance of being refuted in any meaningful way (you get refuted, you just sling insults and post more wiki's).

Manny has mastered this, it seems to work well for him.

welcome to the internet.

:lmao

Yeah, I insult people like WH, LNG, El Nono, Teysha Blue and others all the damn time in here. I insult people like Wild Cobra and and Crookshanks because they post shit like this which is pretty fucking racist at its core (The financial crisis was caused because poor people wanted handouts is about as racist as it gets) but you're more than welcome to give them a shoulder to cry on.

That you think its about self esteem or ego boosts says more about you then it says about me.

[MannyIsGod]

Crookshanks is no stranger to belittling people for their opinions, but her opinions are usually refuted based on real facts.

welcome to the political forum

No shit this bitch will post the most vile of things then get mad because someone gives her a dose of her own shit. I'm sure Soul Patch's idiocy in this thread will only add to her delusions that she's so treated so god damn unfairly in this thread.

[DarrinS]

_MGT_cSi7Rs

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not going to excuse borrowers that didn't do their homework, but lenders know a lot better than that. People borrowing more than they can pay back, defaulting on their debt and getting their property foreclosed isn't a new occurrence. It's part of the system and has happened since credit has been offered. It has happened to all kind of people. It hasn't brought down the financial system.

Lenders have no excuses because they have a fairly large set of data to make a fairly decent determination of what the loan should be and to make decisions based on that data. When I had no credit history at all, my first line of credit was $250.

There's no way that lenders didn't know what they were issuing, and the fact that they couldn't stop issuing these junk loans fast enough just shows you how systemic the scam was.

Who cares how bad the loan when you get paid more for bad loans as a broker and your firm (sup countrywide) is just going to turn around and sell those loans to some poor slobs retirement fund?

Thats not the issue though. The issue here isn't that there was a house of cards being built by a lack of oversight and gimics in the financial market its that some fucking minorities got uppity and want fair lending practices. If we don't let banks discriminate on the basis of race how the fuck can we prevent another financial crisis?

[George Gervin's Afro]

_MGT_cSi7Rs

the title says democrats..I only see one.

[Soul_Patch]

:lmao

Yeah, I insult people like WH, LNG, El Nono, Teysha Blue and others all the damn time in here. I insult people like Wild Cobra and and Crookshanks because they post shit like this which is pretty fucking racist at its core (The financial crisis was caused because poor people wanted handouts is about as racist as it gets) but you're more than welcome to give them a shoulder to cry on.

That you think its about self esteem or ego boosts says more about you then it says about me.

Lol, C'mon man, your claim to fame is your ability and/or desire to argue every single subject that comes up on this forum as if you are the ever flowing fountain of truth.

You're a smart dude, i give you that. But your methodology is lacking. And, as im sure you are well aware of, you don't really know everything.


The argument about who caused the collapse is much like the chicken and the egg. I think they both caused it, i would probably say it is more of a 60/40 relationship with the banks taking the bulk of the blame.

[Soul_Patch]

The personal responsibility came when those people lost their houses. Its never going to be their fault the economy collapsed because they had no say so in the banks offering bad loans everywhere, they had no role in the derivates being formed and used to package these loans, they had no role in the CDS being bought by the same companies selling the MBS because they expected and bet on their own products failing, and they sure as hell had no role in the ratings agencies selling AAA ratings.

I dont call that personal responsibility. What did those people do? They immediately shuffled the blame off of themselves, onto whomever they could find. Rather than say, "well fuck, i should have probably read that loan agreement a bit better.", they play the victim and put their hands up and say, ohhh...i never knew!!!

You knew damn good and well you cant afford a 200, 500, 750k house on your 8 dollars an hour from your telemarketing job. If you didn't know, you should have educated yourself on simple banking and money keeping. You knew, you just were riding the wave and didn't want to see it.

I get it...im guilty of it too. I have more debt than i should. I'm not sitting here crying about it though, and trying to blame the sales man for making me buy that car, or that boat, or whatever. I knew what i was doing, and will pay for it.

Personal responsibility is not losing your house, in fact that is probably the opposite of personal responsibility. There mortgage is gone, you move your ass into an apartment for a fraction of your payment and move on...the bank is on the hook. I guarantee you that person that lost their house has probably already had a car or two reposed or their big screen from rent-a-center taken back, etc. That is the problem, the complete LACK of personal responsibility. Go anywhere, and its readily apparent personal responsibility is a complete afterthought. ITs one of my biggest pet peaves to be honest. its sickening.

It also isnt a race thing, this isnt specific to black/white/brown...this is an issue of greed and a me first society. While i agree, the banks should of had a moral obligation to steer customers either, away from buying all together, or to more sound financial choices in lending. They weren't legally bound to do so. They were driven, like any business is, to make a profit for their stakeholders.

Anyway, i ramble, but there is plenty of blame to be laid, but i always see people wanting to paint the borrowers as some victims of the big bad banks...i think its pretty ridiculous.

[ChumpDumper]

Personal responsibility is not losing your house, in fact that is probably the opposite of personal responsibility. There mortgage is gone, you move your ass into an apartment for a fraction of your payment and move on...the bank is on the hook. Right, so why did the bank make so many stupid loans it would be responsible for?

HINT: It wasn't because they thought they would be investigated.

2ND HINT: They wouldn't be responsible for them.

[Soul_Patch]

Right, so why did the bank make so many stupid loans it would be responsible for?

HINT: It wasn't because they thought they would be investigated.

2ND HINT: They wouldn't be responsible for them.

Yea, i worded that wrong. In no way do i think there is any personal responsibility going on in that fucked up scheme. Banks or otherwise. That is the problem. You had people hungry for a piece of the pie that they werent ready for, and banks hungry to sell it to them at whatever the cots.

[MannyIsGod]

I dont call that personal responsibility. What did those people do? They immediately shuffled the blame off of themselves, onto whomever they could find. Rather than say, "well fuck, i should have probably read that loan agreement a bit better.", they play the victim and put their hands up and say, ohhh...i never knew!!!


So you're upset that people who took out stupid loans aren't very smart?



You knew damn good and well you cant afford a 200, 500, 750k house on your 8 dollars an hour from your telemarketing job. If you didn't know, you should have educated yourself on simple banking and money keeping. You knew, you just were riding the wave and didn't want to see it.


No one has defend their decisions here AFAIK. I'm not sure what your point is. The decisions to take these loans were stupid.



I get it...im guilty of it too. I have more debt than i should. I'm not sitting here crying about it though, and trying to blame the sales man for making me buy that car, or that boat, or whatever. I knew what i was doing, and will pay for it.


I don't think you understand the argument being presented here. No one is crying that the salesman forced anyone to buy something. What is being argued here is that the banks acted irresponsibly. The biggest mistake you're making is thinking this is about mortgages when its really about a severely unregulated derivates market that our economy is leveraged far too much against.

If it hadn't been mortgages they would have found something else to package and sell.



Personal responsibility is not losing your house, in fact that is probably the opposite of personal responsibility. There mortgage is gone, you move your ass into an apartment for a fraction of your payment and move on...the bank is on the hook. I guarantee you that person that lost their house has probably already had a car or two reposed or their big screen from rent-a-center taken back, etc. That is the problem, the complete LACK of personal responsibility. Go anywhere, and its readily apparent personal responsibility is a complete afterthought. ITs one of my biggest pet peaves to be honest. its sickening.


People made bad decisions and they paid the price for it. I'm not sure what more you want. Yes, ideally everyone would make smart decisions but I don't expect to happen at any point.

There's also the fact that those who made the bad decisions to get into subprime loans are a small fraction of our society. You make it seem as though its this problem where we're all guilty of getting in over our heads and that simply is not the case.



It also isnt a race thing, this isnt specific to black/white/brown...this is an issue of greed and a me first society. While i agree, the banks should of had a moral obligation to steer customers either, away from buying all together, or to more sound financial choices in lending. They weren't legally bound to do so. They were driven, like any business is, to make a profit for their stakeholders.


The OP was definitely a race thing. Maybe you skipped it over in your haste to attack me, but maybe now would be a good time to go back and review it.



Anyway, i ramble, but there is plenty of blame to be laid, but i always see people wanting to paint the borrowers as some victims of the big bad banks...i think its pretty ridiculous.

No one is saying that. Thats an argument you made up all on our own. No one is saying the people who took those loans are victims, the argument being made is that our society fell victim to a financial sector who fought regulation tooth and nail and then leveraged our entire economy on those bad decisions made by a small fraction of our population.

Do you understand that?

[MannyIsGod]

Yea, i worded that wrong. In no way do i think there is any personal responsibility going on in that fucked up scheme. Banks or otherwise. That is the problem. You had people hungry for a piece of the pie that they werent ready for, and banks hungry to sell it to them at whatever the cots.

You really need to understand that this isn't about mortgages but rather how those mortgages were distributed through the financial sector. These packaged securities were then given AAA ratings by all of the major ratings industries and sold off as great investments.

What really gets me though, is how huge brokerages like Goldman Sachs kept selling these securities when they knew the were garbage and bought CDS against those very same securities because they knew the were destined to fail. So GS gets money on the front end, then the get the government to bail out AIG and guarantee 100% on those CDS that are now being paid with taxpayer money.

Its a scam worth of a fucking mob movie and you're trying to lay the blame on the people who took out bad loans???

[Soul_Patch]

No one is saying that. Thats an argument you made up all on our own. No one is saying the people who took those loans are victims, the argument being made is that our society fell victim to a financial sector who fought regulation tooth and nail and then leveraged our entire economy on those bad decisions made by a small fraction of our population.

Do you understand that?

Yea i skipped over most of the OPs post, and my goal wasn't to attack you, i just found it funny you are in the middle of another shouting match with someone. I completely agree with the quoted statement though. Up to the part that no one is saying the borrowers are victims. There are a TON of people saying just that. Maybe not here, but they are out there.

I guess i piece-mealed my argument together. Felt like the right place to vent my frustration with the victim mentality...Sorry if i went way off topic.

[Soul_Patch]

You really need to understand that this isn't about mortgages but rather how those mortgages were distributed through the financial sector. These packaged securities were then given AAA ratings by all of the major ratings industries and sold off as great investments.

What really gets me though, is how huge brokerages like Goldman Sachs kept selling these securities when they knew the were garbage and bought CDS against those very same securities because they knew the were destined to fail. So GS gets money on the front end, then the get the government to bail out AIG and guarantee 100% on those CDS that are now being paid with taxpayer money.

Its a scam worth of a fucking mob movie and you're trying to lay the blame on the people who took out bad loans???

you read my posts, and you know i said numerous times there is plenty of blame to go around. My point was the entire thing originated from people borrowing money that they had no business borrowing, buying things that they had no business buying.

I completely understand all of the banks fuck ups, and am right there with you. It is appalling how crazy and corrupt it all is. I too watched that documentary recently, about the whole thing. Absolutely nuts...to think these people are still out there, completely washed their hands of it, is just crazy..hell mot hold positions in government now, to MAKE monetary policy.../facepalm.

I went off on a tangent i guess, my bad...my gripe is at the fact that no one wants to own the responsibility, across the board. Thus, we are probably doomed for a repeat.

[MannyIsGod]

Well I think there are plenty of people who want to hold the banks responsible but the fact is their lobby is the strongest around. I don't know how thats going to change.

As for holding people responsible, I have a question for you. Do you lock your doors when you leave your house? I'm going to assume that you do. In the ideal world, you shouldn't have to lock your property up because everyone should respect that its owned by you and they have no right to it.

But we live in a world where people will try to do things they shouldn't do so we have to protect ourselves from them. If banks offer loans that people shouldn't take its completely unrealistic to expect everyone out there to turn them down.

[Soul_Patch]

Do you lock your doors when you leave your house? I'm going to assume that you do. In the ideal world, you shouldn't have to lock your property up because everyone should respect that its owned by you and they have no right to it.

But we live in a world where people will try to do things they shouldn't do so we have to protect ourselves from them. If banks offer loans that people shouldn't take its completely unrealistic to expect everyone out there to turn them down.

I dont expect people to turn them down...absolutely not...but when they come back to bite you in the ass, its on you...not the bank. Now what the bank does after you take their shitty loan was your original argument, and im in complete agreement with you there. I sidetracked this train pretty good though.

my bad.

[MannyIsGod]

Its not a huge deal. See, unlike what you posted earlier, people do have good discussions here.

[Soul_Patch]

Its not a huge deal. See, unlike what you posted earlier, people do have good discussions here.

Touche

[ElNono]

Who cares how bad the loan when you get paid more for bad loans as a broker and your firm (sup countrywide) is just going to turn around and sell those loans to some poor slobs retirement fund?

My point is: if lenders weren't actually running a scam, they would actually care about the type of loans they were issuing, including credit histories, etc.

Obviously, the fact that they could turns those shitty loans in a cash cow is what killed the way the system is supposed to work.

[Wild Cobra]

While i agree, people were rooked into bad loans. One lingering question i always have is where in the hell is the personal responsibility here? They didnt have to take the bad loan, it was pretty easy to take a moment while you are financing one of the biggest purchases you will ever make, to see exactly how it all works, and what the future may hold.

I completely agree here.

The industry has done some things I think are pretty bad, but they wouldn't get away with it if people had more responsibility. We are suppose to be a free nation. People are free to fuck up. Not my problem.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm not going to excuse borrowers that didn't do their homework, but lenders know a lot better than that. People borrowing more than they can pay back, defaulting on their debt and getting their property foreclosed isn't a new occurrence. It's part of the system and has happened since credit has been offered. It has happened to all kind of people. It hasn't brought down the financial system.

Lenders have no excuses because they have a fairly large set of data to make a fairly decent determination of what the loan should be and to make decisions based on that data. When I had no credit history at all, my first line of credit was $250.

There's no way that lenders didn't know what they were issuing, and the fact that they couldn't stop issuing these junk loans fast enough just shows you how systemic the scam was.
That's right. Lenders should have known better and we should have never ailed them out.

[Wild Cobra]

My point is: if lenders weren't actually running a scam, they would actually care about the type of loans they were issuing, including credit histories, etc.

Obviously, the fact that they could turns those shitty loans in a cash cow is what killed the way the system is supposed to work.
Yes, and who set up those regulatory rules and laws that allowed this to happen?

You will always have someone who operates "lawful evil." Laws and regulations should include a "scope' and "purpose" that disallows using unintended loopholes of the text.

[Stringer_Bell]

You will always have someone who operates "lawful evil." Laws and regulations should include a "scope' and "purpose" that disallows using unintended loopholes of the text.

Yep...we definately need more regulation on white bankers!

Keep up the good work, I'm reading all of this and taking notes. :wakeup

[ChumpDumper]

lol unintended

[ElNono]

Yes, and who set up those regulatory rules and laws that allowed this to happen?

You mean the regulatory rules that weren't extensive enough to prevent that kind of scam... I'm pretty sure neither the poor or minorities set those up.


You will always have someone who operates "lawful evil." Laws and regulations should include a "scope' and "purpose" that disallows using unintended loopholes of the text.

This is far from a 'bad apple'. This was systemic, and the reason the whole sector was collapsing. Every financial agency was doing this. It's obvious that if you don't impose certain limits through regulation, these entities are completely unwilling to regulate themselves, even if it means the entire economic collapse of the nation.

[DMX7]

You can thank Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act for allowing commercial banks to become i-banking card houses in the first place.

[ElNono]

You can thank Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act for allowing commercial banks to become i-banking card houses in the first place.

Add Greenspan for supporting it, and Clinton for signing it into law...

[Nbadan]

I'm sure Soul Patch's idiocy in this thread...


not sure why conversations ever have to go there at all....anyway....buying a new big house was the trendy thing to do back then, even when people in this forum were saying that this was a bubble which will not reach a happy end for a lot of people...just as we are saying about commodities today....there was a lot of bad personal decision making by individuals, but there was also a giant ponzi scheme of bad debt by security brokers, and less we forget, a complete lack of govt oversight going on...

[Soul_Patch]

I completely agree here.

The industry has done some things I think are pretty bad, but they wouldn't get away with it if people had more responsibility. We are suppose to be a free nation. People are free to fuck up. Not my problem.

It becomes everyone's problem when said fuck up, snowballs into a collapse of the entire nations economy.

This would be a good argument that unabashed capitalism cannot work. There has to be regulation involved to curtail the greed. Thats just the world we live in.

[Soul_Patch]

Im off to the coast to put this new (financed!!) boat in the water and enjoy the weather.

Enjoy your day politickers :P

[Wild Cobra]

Im off to the coast to put this new (financed!!) boat in the water and enjoy the weather.

Enjoy your day politickers :P
Have a good weekend.

[TeyshaBlue]

Im off to the coast to put this new (financed!!) boat in the water and enjoy the weather.

Enjoy your day politickers :P

gfy :p:

[MannyIsGod]

gfy :p:

+1