The Pierce/KG/Allen Era = A Failure?

[VBM]

Heard this discussion on Mike & Mike this morning (yes, I'm one of the 5 people left on the planet who doesn't have satellite radio, so I still listen to these clowns on the way to work). Assuming this group is done as a true title contender, is one title in four years "enough" for this group to be considered a success?

[HarlemHeat37]

Yes, absolutely a success..

They were 1 meltdown away from winning last year, and a Garnett injury away from winning in 2009..

Definitely a success, better than being a lottery team every year..

[TheMACHINE]

being that they were old when they got together, I really wouldn't say it was a failure.

[Ace]

One title is better than none, so no I disagree.

[ALVAREZ6]

They ringed: Success.



It ain't easy.

[ALVAREZ6]

However, if SuperHeat only win 1 title, I would consider them a failure given they're all superstars in their primes, 2 of which are top 5 players in the league. Would be pathetic, especially in LeBron's individual case, if they only won 1. Wade already took a team on his back and won it all so he'll always have that in the resume.

[TheMACHINE]

though I believe it would be a failure if they were to promise multiple championships.

[Kyle Orton]

Anything that wins a championship is a success in the NBA, even if it mortgages your future for the next 5 years.

[picc84]

Not a failure. They rang. But definitely a disappointment.

[Ashy Larry]

28 other teams would trade with those three years .... only team that wouldn't trade is probably the Lakers

[Leetonidas]

They rang. Much like the Shaq-Wade Heat, they only won 1 title in what, 4 years as well? Point is, they got the bling so it can't be considered a failure.

But I would say it's kinda disappointing for them. KG's injury denied them the ability to defend their title and had Perkins not been injured for Game 7 they probably would've won. Trading for Jeff Green and signing Shaq also turned out to be fucking retarded, so Danny Ainge looks like a dumbass now.

[scampers]

The Chauncey Billups Pistons had a lot of disappointing seasons, but I do not consider them a failure because they brought another trophy to Detroit. Same deal with these Celtics.

[VBM]

though I believe it would be a failure if they were to promise multiple championships.

While they didn't blatantly promise multiple titles like Miami did, I think when those 3 for Boston came together and won a title in their first season, expectations for multiple titles grew. Rondo was supposed to be the guy holding them back, and he developed into a top 5-10 PG for them. Sure, injuries got the best of them in two out of their four years together, but they played in a weak conference with a one-man team in Cleveland and some pretenders in Orlando as their biggest competition. Even with the Perkins injury, they were in control of Game 7 last year until they let the game slip away.

The era was a success in that they made Boston relevant again, and did add a ring to stay ahead of LA. But with the talent they had, if they can't get one more ring out of this group, I think you'd have to look at them the same way you'd look at the Heat if they only won 1-2 rings.

[cheguevara]

not a failure at all. They got the ring and would have definitely repeated if not KG injury. Now they are finished along with the Spurs and Lakers.

[JamStone]

Not a failure. They rang. But definitely a disappointment.

Better way to characterize it. Disappointment, not a failure.

Sustained success, two NBA Finals, one title. Pretty good. Of course, you'd want more. When you taste the ultimate success, you get greedy. But that shouldn't prevent them and their fans from appreciating what they did accomplish.

[NewcastleKEG]

Yes, absolutely a success..

They were 1 meltdown away from winning last year, and a Garnett injury away from winning in 2009..

Definitely a success, better than being a lottery team every year..
Meltdown? Team gets 20+ Free Throws in a quarter you can't do much about it

Without KG's injury this group probably 3peats

[Giuseppe]

Meltdown? Team gets 20+ Free Throws in a quarter you can't do much about it

Don't foul, A.

Don't back up on Artest, B.

tee, hee, C.

[Jose Canseco]

Meltdown? Team gets 20+ Free Throws in a quarter you can't do much about it

Without KG's injury this group probably 3peats

Without Bird's fucked up hand from a fight, the Celtics 3peat.

Without a phantom foul on Laimbeer, the Bad Boy Pistons probably 3peat.

Without .04, the Spurs probably 3 peat.

It's easy and fun to talk in hypothetical. But that's not what is remembered. It's not what matters.

[hater]

I'll say this. They lucked out with Rondo. Without Rondo it would have been an utter failure.

[Giuseppe]

^I called Rondo first. Me.

[NewcastleKEG]

Don't foul, A.

Don't back up on Artest, B.

tee, hee, C.
Those weren't fouls

Best defense in the league doesn't just all of a sudden start fouling a team shooting under 30% for the game

If that Game 7 is in Boston, the Celtics win by 15+. So I'll give you the fact Boston was screwed once the regular season ended and they weren't ahead of the Lakers

[hater]

^I called Rondo first. Me.

bend over. I'll give you me

[DMC]

Anything that wins a championship is a success in the NBA, even if it mortgages your future for the next 5 years.
This.

Too many teams have spent far more and done far less.

[stretch]

definitely wasnt a failure. ultimately, they got that championship, and had several chances to compete heavily for one as well, so that is definitely a success, even if they may have underachieved due to a few unfortunate circumstances (KGs injury in 09, Perkins injury and a few unusually perfect bounces straight to laker players that led to offensive rebounds for the Lakers in G7 last year)

[DMC]

Without Bird's fucked up hand from a fight, the Celtics 3peat.

Without a phantom foul on Laimbeer, the Bad Boy Pistons probably 3peat.

Without .04, the Spurs probably 3 peat.

It's easy and fun to talk in hypothetical. But that's not what is remembered. It's not what matters.
Without balls, my uncle would be my aunt.

[Nick Manning]

Success.

[Giuseppe]

Those weren't fouls


Of course they were. 3 of 'em were suicide drives into the front of the rim by Bryant. He'd waited for the 4th to do that. He snatched the life right of 'em.

Just like that.

[NewcastleKEG]

Without Bird's fucked up hand from a fight, the Celtics 3peat.

Without a phantom foul on Laimbeer, the Bad Boy Pistons probably 3peat.

Without .04, the Spurs probably 3 peat.

It's easy and fun to talk in hypothetical. But that's not what is remembered. It's not what matters.
20 extra free throws in a Quarter where the Lakers were shooting under 30% for the game

IMO, 2nd worst fixing job I've seen in my years of an NBA fan

[Giuseppe]

20 extra free throws in a Quarter where the Lakers were shooting under 30% for the game

IMO, 2nd worst fixing job I've seen in my years of an NBA fan

That's just sour grapes from a Lakers hater.

Shame, shame, everybody knows yer name.

[NewcastleKEG]

Of course they were. 3 of 'em were suicide drives into the front of the rim by Bryant. He'd waited for the 4th to do that. He snatched the life right of 'em.

Just like that.
Kobe got benched in the 4th Quarter. Guy was having a career meltdown on national television.

Celtics were powerless to the bullshit that was occurring

[Giuseppe]

Kobe got benched in the 4th Quarter. Guy was having a career meltdown on national television.

Please.

[picc84]

This guy almost makes me want to root for Miami in the next round. :lol

[JoeTait75]

Success. They never choked. They had injuries and lost to better teams. They maxed out IMO.

[Axe Murderer]

few unusually perfect bounces straight to laker players that led to offensive rebounds for the Lakers in G7 last year)

that's a stretch

[DAF86]

Success. If they hadn't had those injuries to key players we could have made this thread about the Lakers.

[LnGrrrR]

Heard this discussion on Mike & Mike this morning (yes, I'm one of the 5 people left on the planet who doesn't have satellite radio, so I still listen to these clowns on the way to work). Assuming this group is done as a true title contender, is one title in four years "enough" for this group to be considered a success?

Considering that we absolutely sucked for roughly 15 years... I'd say that anyone that thinks that is an idiot.

[z0sa]

They should have two titles. A certain Perkins injury and his subsequent trade just gutted that team. KG's injury in 09 may have gotten them a third, but that's total conjecture compared to what we all saw in last year's Finals. A success, but not the kind they were hoping for, and it's due thanks to depending on aging, cagey star vets in the hunt for a ring. Now they slip back into mediocrity for some more years.

[VBM]

Success. If they hadn't had those injuries to key players we could have made this thread about the Lakers.

Forget injuries and other gray area-type stuff.

2007, Boston snags Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett to team with Paul Pierce. Once that happened, how many titles did you expect Boston to win? Did they achieve that number? Remember, these three were doing TV interviews with Bill Russell about living up to the great Celtic teams of years past.

[DAF86]

I never thought they were going to win it all the first year, also I didn't think it was a sure thing for them to ever win a championship like I do now with the Heat.

[LnGrrrR]

Forget injuries and other gray area-type stuff.

2008, Boston snags Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett to team with Paul Pierce. In 2008, how many titles did you expect Boston to win? Did they achieve that number? Remember, these three were doing TV interviews with Bill Russell about living up to the great Celtic teams of years past.

What were they supposed to say? "Well, we'll just be happy to ring once. That's all we're going for."

The key question to ask is, how many titles did Bostonfan think they would win?

And the answer is that we had no clue. We were hoping they'd win at least one, but we didn't think it was a guarantee. The three meshed better than we could have expected, and we won a great series over the Lakers, and we were competitive enough to lose to the Lakers two years later.

There were some amazing playoff series along the way (against the Bulls, Cavs multiple years, the devastating loss to Orlando in 09, the game where Wade singlehandedly prevented a sweep, etc etc).

Is any Boston fan truly disappointed by that? Only the dumb ones.

[LnGrrrR]

Pierce knew he had to ring at least once to be mentioned with the all-time Celtics. He did that. Missions accomplished.

[JamStone]

What were they supposed to say? "Well, we'll just be happy to ring once. That's all we're going for."

The key question to ask is, how many titles did Bostonfan think they would win?

And the answer is that we had no clue. We were hoping they'd win at least one, but we didn't think it was a guarantee. The three meshed better than we could have expected, and we won a great series over the Lakers, and we were competitive enough to lose to the Lakers two years later.

There were some amazing playoff series along the way (against the Bulls, Cavs multiple years, the devastating loss to Orlando in 09, the game where Wade singlehandedly prevented a sweep, etc etc).

Is any Boston fan truly disappointed by that? Only the dumb ones.

Although after winning that one the very first year after making those moves, I would figure expectations of Boston fans changed.

[TheMACHINE]

it got them out of 20 years of irrelevance..so success.

[LkrFan]

True champions repeat. They didn't, so it was a failure. Cool with me though. :toast

[LnGrrrR]

True champions repeat. They didn't, so it was a failure. Cool with me though. :toast

Fail trolling :p

True champions octopeat. Therefore, there has only been one champion in the NBA.

[LnGrrrR]

Although after winning that one the very first year after making those moves, I would figure expectations of Boston fans changed.

Sure, but they're tempered by reality. In 09 KG's injury bit us. In 2010 we got to Game 7 of the Finals, and lost due to poor rebounding with Perkins out. And this year, they made that stupid trade, and got beat by a team with two of the top 5 players in the league.

Nature of the beast. It's not like they went out getting swept, losing by 36, and throwing cheap shots.

[LnGrrrR]

To me, the most disappointing loss was the 09 one, since we were on our home court and I really expected us to win.

[Giuseppe]

Nature of the beast. It's not like they went out getting swept and throwing cheap shots.

No, but, make no mistake, you got yer ass handed to ya last night. And you were made to like it.

[z0sa]

It's not like they went out getting swept, losing by 36, and throwing cheap shots.

zing

fascinating how the douchiest team in the L (sorry Lng) got thoroughly out-douched by the Lakers

[TE]

Success. Championships are hard to come by. They were a major force coming out of the East within the past three years.

[Giuseppe]

To me, the most disappointing loss was the 09 one, since we were on our home court and I really expected us to win.

You were like Portland:::you couldn't function at full capacity unless we were in the same building. & last night the Heat were having none of it.

McHale took care of ya though. Got you straightened out. You've nothing to be ashamed of.

[Giuseppe]

zing

fascinating how the douchiest team in the L (sorry Lng) got thoroughly out-douched by the Lakers

He obviously isn't referring to 8.

[z0sa]

Seems an overwhelming smell of skunk just entered the topic tbh

[LnGrrrR]

No, but, make no mistake, you got yer ass handed to ya last night. And you were made to like it.

Sure did. But I'd rather we go down fighting figuratively, rather than literally.

[TE]

Seems an overwhelming smell of skunk just entered the topic tbh

[davethedope]

I think it was a success, and despite a rocky road to the title in '08 they deserved
it. Got a tough break in '09. And in '10 I think they tanked in the Finals but were also
robbed. I give no cred to this Lakers repeat. The last real champions of the league
were the '08 Celtics. So, for me the undisputed title is now up for grabs.

[timtonymanu]

Retarded take by Mike and Mike.

Had KG never gotten hurt in 09, Celtics would have been in the NBA Finals 3 years in a row. It's not a failure at all. They rang and that's all that matters.

[LnGrrrR]

No, but, make no mistake, you got yer ass handed to ya last night. And you were made to like it.

Yup. It happens.

[LnGrrrR]

zing

fascinating how the douchiest team in the L (sorry Lng) got thoroughly out-douched by the Lakers

None taken.

[Giuseppe]

Sure did. But I'd rather we go down fighting figuratively, rather than literally.

Then don't back up on Artest ever again.

[Giuseppe]

Seems an overwhelming smell of skunk just entered the topic tbh

He obviously isn't referring to 8.

[Giuseppe]

Only pussys cite injury & officiating excuses.

[LnGrrrR]

Then don't back up on Artest ever again.

And don't let us win by 30+ in a clinching game of the Finals :toast :lol

[Giuseppe]

And don't let us win by 30+ in a clinching game of the Finals :toast :lol

Then don't lie about not returning to Los Angeles.

[LnGrrrR]

Then don't lie about not returning to Los Angeles.

If only Ray Allen could've made one basket in that game in the crunch. Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

But everyone lies. Heck, your Kobe said he thought their team could come back from 3-0. Course, you could always use the Liar, Lord or Lunatic argument for him.

[LkrFan]

Fail trolling :p

True champions octopeat. Therefore, there has only been one champion in the NBA.

That shit don't count. There was no free agency, so no team could break up your championship nucleus by overpaying for a key player like we see nowadays. Back then if your team was stacked, it was stacked forever. Plus there were only about 3 good teams back then including Boston. Color me unimpressed with Russell's rings.

:toast

[LnGrrrR]

That shit don't count. There was no free agency, so no team could break up your championship nucleus by overpaying for a key player like we see nowadays. Back then if your team was stacked, it was stacked forever. Plus there were only about 3 good teams back then including Boston. Color me unimpressed with Russell's rings.

:toast

Pfft qualifiers. You either ring or you don't. Repeating adds some shine to the rings, is all.

[024]

meh they won a ring they otherwise would not have gotten if the big 3 stayed with their respective teams. they've also become the toughest team in the NBA. i thought they were done after KG's injury but they didn't go down easy. pushing the magic to the brink in 2009 was very impressive. contrary to the whimper the spurs barely gave after losing ginobili, the celtics refused to give even an inch.

the 2010 run was impressive as well considering their health. they were one perkins injury away from winning the title despite their aging core. even this year they fought until the end every game despite their inevitable fall to the heat. compare that to the completely healthy lakers laying down and spreading their legs for dallas. they are done and have pretty much been done since KG's injury but still refuse to die easy.

[Giuseppe]

compare that to the completely healthy lakers laying down and spreading their legs for dallas.

8

[davethedope]

boils down to lakers stole celtics big three thunder with stern's help

[Giuseppe]

boils down to lakers stole celtics big three thunder

The Dope||the goods. He's right, we denied them. & it's been that way since June.9.1985.

[cobbler]

There is one success and 29 failures every year. So for their 4 years so far they are 25% successfull and 75% failure.

It's that simple.

Lakers over that time 50-50.

Whoever wins this year gets the other 25% over the last 4 years.

All other teams.... 0% success and 100% failure.

[dunkman]

It's not over yet, while KG is well past his prime, Rondo is a tremendous player picked with a lower first rounder. They will do another run next season. So far it has been 1 championship and 1 finals in four years, so the Celtics have been successful.

They had bad luck with injuries, in 2009 was KG, then in 2010 Perkins and this season Shaq and Rondo.

[Venti Quattro]

Lots of elite teams would trade for Boston's situation just for one ring...

Not a failure, but a "what might have been"

[DJ Mbenga]

they are looking like the pistons of the previous decade. if thats a failure then the celtics are too. to me if you win its great, but at the end of the day isiahs pistons won at least 2, current lakers won 2, hakeems won 2, dr j as well. like jordan told ray allen winning 1 is luck. winning 2 is serious business

[DazedAndConfused]

All that matters is the ring.

Everything else is irrelevant. History does not remember, nor does it care, who was injured or what the circumstances were surrounding the win (unless there was blatant cheating involved). The bottom line is the Celtics won in '08 and because of that every move they made to get that ring was absolutely worth it, even if it means they don't ring for another two decades. There are teams, Mavericks, that would kill just to have that one opportunity.

[baseline bum]

Mike & Mike sound like morons, like the rest of talk radio. Hilarious to call getting a ring and coming minutes from a second (due to a fluke injury) a failure when it only cost you Al Jefferson and Jeff Green. It's not like they traded Derrick Rose and Kevin Love for the chance to be a top-flight contender for 4 years.

[xellos88330]

I think of this as a minor success. They won a championship and had some deep playoff runs. Considering the talent they had one would expect more. Injuries got in the way of something that could have been incredibly special for Boston.

[baseline bum]

I think of this as a minor success. They won a championship and had some deep playoff runs. Considering the talent they had one would expect more. Injuries got in the way of something that could have been incredibly special for Boston.

Minor-success? So how does the Shaq trade weigh in for Miami then?

[Darrin]

Heard this discussion on Mike & Mike this morning (yes, I'm one of the 5 people left on the planet who doesn't have satellite radio, so I still listen to these clowns on the way to work). Assuming this group is done as a true title contender, is one title in four years "enough" for this group to be considered a success?

I think it's a success. They won at least 50 games every season. They had 2 Finals Appearances, came a quarter away from 2 NBA Championships. They probably would've contended in 2009 had they not lost KG to injury. That has to be taken into account. The title has gone through them. Remember, they knocked off the defending-Conference Champion Cavaliers with Lebron James, and did it to the 61-win team two years later. They ended the Pistons run of success.

Remember, Boston had not a single Championship from 1987-2007. Getting one cemented Paul Pierce as an all-time great and made them a success. They contended even though they didn't always win.

[Spurtacus]

Winning a title isn't a failure in my book.