Patriot Act to be Expanded

[clubalien]

http://politics.slashdot.org/politics/05/06/09/0051206.shtml?tid=158&tid=219
Patriot Act to be Expanded



Posted by samzenpus on Thursday June 09, @05:39AM
from the big-brother dept.
m4dm4n writes "It seems that the patriot act is being expanded rather than scaled back after a vote late Tuesday by the Senate Intelligence committee. The FBI has gained new powers to demand documents from companies without a judge's approval, as well as the ability to designate subpoenas as secret and punish disclosure of their existence with up to one year in prison."

[Clandestino]

sounds good to me...

[mookie2001]

sounds good to me...

simple queston. I ask you WHY?

[FromWayDowntown]

sounds good to me...

Yup. Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Amendments be damned . . . . this Republican administration is ALL about big government and limited civil rights. Screw the American way.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

HEY!!! you stop right there fromwaydowntown!!!

You are blatantly being unamerican and if you keep that up i will call a police tip off hot line so they can check your harddrive and home without you even knowing about it! THAT is the american way! love it or leave it!!

[Guru of Nothing]

sounds good to me...

Parlez vous ribbit?

[AFE7FATMAN]

Well if you folks don't like it you could always............................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........................................








Try filling in the blanks because you can't due sheet about it
and that is so sad.

[mookie2001]

^^puzzlinglyscarypost

anyway i guess nobody here cares about the patriot act or what?

the thing about rights, is once theyre lost, you dont get them back HISTORICALLY

[spurster]

Big Brother Is Watching You.

[Clandestino]

http://politics.slashdot.org/politics/05/06/09/0051206.shtml?tid=158&tid=219
Patriot Act to be Expanded



Posted by samzenpus on Thursday June 09, @05:39AM
from the big-brother dept.
m4dm4n writes "It seems that the patriot act is being expanded rather than scaled back after a vote late Tuesday by the Senate Intelligence committee. The FBI has gained new powers to demand documents from companies without a judge's approval, as well as [b]the ability to designate subpoenas as secret and punish disclosure of their existence with up to one year in prison[/]."

this part is what i like. i don't agree withthe demanding documents w/o a judge's approval...

things take time. if you have to reveal your cards before you play them they become worthless. also, we've had too many leaks and no one has been forced to suffer for their traitorous ways. even with this "up to 1 year" it doesn't mean anyone will serve time. it will at least make them think.

[Clandestino]

^^puzzlinglyscarypost

anyway i guess nobody here cares about the patriot act or what?

the thing about rights, is once theyre lost, you dont get them back HISTORICALLY

in many cases, you are right... just like the liberals violating the rights of business owners to allow smoking in their private businesses.

[mookie2001]

big brother will always be watching, thats not the issue
the issue is them legally being able to search your person, your house, car, property, harddrive, without a warrant, arrest you without a reason and lock you up, without due process, obtain and use your financial statements against you, or for no reason at all, and your medical records, and tap your phone, without a warrant all the shit we've fought for we're gonna give up because we're told it will keep us safer? havent yall read 1984 thats what the whole book was about

[Clandestino]

big brother will always be watching, thats not the issue
the issue is them legally being able to search your person, your house, car, property, harddrive, without a warrant, arrest you without a reason and lock you up, without due process, obtain and use your financial statements against you, or for no reason at all, and your medical records, and tap your phone, without a warrant all the shit we've fought for we're gonna give up because we're told it will keep us safer? havent yall read 1984 thats what the whole book was about

big brother doesn't have time to waste checking out mookie's petty shit... the laws are in place for the big guys... intel is a tough and time consuming job. they don't just randomly tap people's phones for no reason, break down your door, etc..

don't give them a reason and you'll be fine...

[mookie2001]

big brother doesn't have time to waste checking out mookie's petty shit... the laws are in place for the big guys... intel is a tough and time consuming job. they don't just randomly tap people's phones for no reason, break down your door, etc..

don't give them a reason and you'll be fine...

yall say that but THEY CAN DO IT, if they made a law where mookie could regulate with glock 17s on whoever he saw fit. just don't make me pull my strap and you'll be fine? No Way
like i said once you lose freedoms, you dont get them back

[iminlakerland]

Patriot act is skeery, and i cant believe we as a nation keep allowing them to take our rights little by little.

[Clandestino]

the liberals make up laws everyday to take away rights too. neither party is innocent...

[FromWayDowntown]

in many cases, you are right... just like the liberals violating the rights of business owners to allow smoking in their private businesses.

so, are you saying that the regulation of public health (an exercise of the governmental police power) is the equivalent of undermining fundamental civil rights that are so ingrained in our society that they are among the guaranteed freedoms enumerated in the Bill of Rights?

I guess I missed that Amendment that guarantees an individual the right to smoke.

Screwing around with people's rights -- writing laws that allow the government to interfere in people's rights in secret -- is ananthema to the Constitution. I'd argue that if you're for the Patriot Act, you've pretty much given up on the idea of patriotism that our Founding Fathers embraced.

[Clandestino]

so, are you saying that the regulation of public health (an exercise of the governmental police power) is the equivalent of undermining fundamental civil rights that are so ingrained in our society that they are among the guaranteed freedoms enumerated in the Bill of Rights?

I guess I missed that Amendment that guarantees an individual the right to smoke.

Screwing around with people's rights -- writing laws that allow the government to interfere in people's rights in secret -- is ananthema to the Constitution. I'd argue that if you're for the Patriot Act, you've pretty much given up on the idea of patriotism that our Founding Fathers embraced.

the founding fathers weren't the greatest fucking guys... they had slaves.. the shit they wrote was meant only for white men...

[mookie2001]

The CONSTITUITION was something i'd say they got right.

eventually it was taken for what it said, not how they took it at the time- as far as equality

[FromWayDowntown]

the founding fathers weren't the greatest fucking guys... they had slaves.. the shit they wrote was meant only for white men...

You're right . . . . they had slaves so screw any of those civil liberties that they worked so hard to protect. :rolleyes

Even if they didn't immediately apply their wonderful ideas to everyone, at least someone who came later realized that it was the idea that had merit, even if the men who wrote those ideas were hypocrites.

The expansion of the Patriot Act is about limiting the ideas of the Founding Fathers -- it's about saying that government shouldn't have to deal with assuring that people's rights are respected, because it's more important that we get rid of bad guys. That idea worked really well in the Soviet Union (where those who challenged government had a nasty habit of disappearing, since the government never had to bother with publicly seeking warrants and stuff like that).

It's quasi-dictatorial; it's certainly not what the Founding Fathers had in mind.

[Nbadan]

June 13, 2005

Video - Penn & Teller: The Patriot Act is Bullshit

Penn & Teller have a weekly show on Showtime called "BullShit". Every week they debunk some commonly held cultural myth.

Penn & Teller cuts through the crap and tell America the truth behind the Patriot Act. It's is a funny but damning video. It last about 17 minutes and it's worth the time.

Warning: This video contains some nudity, sexuality and profanity.

http://www.edwardsdavid.com/media/sho/images/pennteller_bullshit_patriot_act_050614-01.jpg

Video in Real Media format (17 minutes) (http://www.edwardsdavid.com/media/sho/pennteller_bullshit_patriot_act_050614-01.ram)

Video in Real dial-up format (http://www.edwardsdavid.com/media/sho/pennteller_bullshit_patriot_act_050614-56-01.ram)

Video in Windows Media format (17 minutes) (http://www.edwardsdavid.com/media/sho/pennteller_bullshit_patriot_act_050614-01.wmv)

[Clandestino]

any way you try to swing it.. the founding fathers did not want what we have now... they were for LAND OWNING WHITE MALES.... even poor white men weren't supposed to be treated equal. stfu!

[FromWayDowntown]

any way you try to swing it.. the founding fathers did not want what we have now... they were for LAND OWNING WHITE MALES.... even poor white men weren't supposed to be treated equal. stfu!

So, the changing nature of society means that people really shouldn't have any rights, other than those that the President believes they should have????

Why don't we just elect a King? Or better yet, why bother with elections?

[mookie2001]

clan youre not gonna get away with arguing against the constitution you asshole

[SWC Bonfire]

The constitution is merely a general guideline.

Sincerely,

The ruling party

[SWC Bonfire]

The constitution must be strictly enforced word for word!

Sincerely,

The minority party

[mookie2001]

its the fucking CONSTITUTION?
i dont know what else to say, if we dont honor that shit, this is a different country, we're not going to all of a sudden ignore it because theres a "war" on "terror"

[Clandestino]

well, when you say it is in the constitution...the constitution alone was never meant for everyone..not even the bill of rights did that.. it was for white land owning males... only 50 years ago my mother wasn't even allowed to go to school with white children...

[hunter-thereckoning]

you suck man

[FromWayDowntown]

"Constitution? We don't need no stinkin' Constitution!!"

-- Your friendly neighborhood Bush Administration.

"What's that? You mean that if there's no Constitution, we can't move towards mandating that States prohibit immoral practices by proposing willy-nilly amendments to limit individual rights?

Okay, we take it back, we LOVE the Constitution. But we think it should only be a tool to increase the power of government -- individual rights of the People, particularly foreigners and Muslims, are insignificant, because this government needs more power!!"

Ibid.

[mookie2001]

the rights i had.
i want them back clan
you know me!!!!! a crazy liberal

[FromWayDowntown]

well, when you say it is in the constitution...the constitution alone was never meant for everyone..not even the bill of rights did that.. it was for white land owning males... only 50 years ago my mother wasn't even allowed to go to school with white children...

So are you suggesting that we just tear it up? Nice patriotism!

If it wasn't intended to extend to all, it certainly has been extended (by Congress -- you might read the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection Clause) to all. So, if you're right, the Bush Administration's efforts to ignore Constitutional guarantees of due process, freedom from warrantless arrests and searches, and freedom from unlawful imprisonment, are based on an 18th century view of the Constitution -- one that Congress has expressly overridden!!

Damned Executive Activism!!

[Clandestino]

some of the provisions in the patriot act i don't agree with.. however, many are needed for us to catch shit BEFORE it happens and not after...

[FromWayDowntown]

some of the provisions in the patriot act i don't agree with.. however, many are needed for us to catch shit BEFORE it happens and not after...

so, because we're afraid of terrorists (allegedly) we're willing to vitiate the civil rights of our people?

It seems to me that the premise of the War of Terrorism was that terrorists hate our lifestyle and freedoms. I thought part of the reason that we're fighting the war is to protect our way of life. I heard that if we give up our freedoms, the terrorists win. Did I miss any part of that?

If its true that the terrorists win if we give up our freedoms, doesn't the Patriot Act mean that the terrorists have actually won, at least a little bit?

[SWC Bonfire]

The very existence of a government is an affront to your personal freedoms.

[mookie2001]

^^The very stupidity of a post can be seen, even when one attempts to be smart, however, people, even hairless gorillas can see through such nonsense.

we're talking about the USA, ive accepted theyre my government, its like talking about how duncan and manu didnt come through and then someone saying basketball sucks, wow

[Clandestino]

so, because we're afraid of terrorists (allegedly) we're willing to vitiate the civil rights of our people?

It seems to me that the premise of the War of Terrorism was that terrorists hate our lifestyle and freedoms. I thought part of the reason that we're fighting the war is to protect our way of life. I heard that if we give up our freedoms, the terrorists win. Did I miss any part of that?

If its true that the terrorists win if we give up our freedoms, doesn't the Patriot Act mean that the terrorists have actually won, at least a little bit?

not afraid, but trying to catch them... you would rather wait for them to kill or injure someone, then arrest them.. these laws help to stop them BEFORE they kill or injure...

the government is not looking into your shit..unless, of course, you are doing something wrong... if not, don't worry... the gov doesn't have enough intel people to spy on everyone..they concentrate on the big dogs...

[mookie2001]

not afraid, but trying to catch them... you would rather wait for them to kill or injure someone, then arrest them.. these laws help to stop them BEFORE they kill or injure...

the government is not looking into your shit..unless, of course, you are doing something wrong... if not, don't worry... the gov doesn't have enough intel people to spy on everyone..they concentrate on the big dogs...

1. thought police

2. yes they are, and companies too, so they can reach me with "advertising"


OnStar*

[SWC Bonfire]

^^The very stupidity of a post can be seen, even when one attempts to be smart, however, people, even hairless gorillas can see through such nonsense.

we're talking about the USA, ive accepted theyre my government, its like talking about how duncan and manu didnt come through and then someone saying basketball sucks, wow

It's an argument demonstrating that rights have already been given up. You've given up some of your rights to get some semblance of law and order in return. The bill of rights was put forth to limit the amount that induviduals were willing to concede. The wording and "spirit" of the BOR has been pushed to the limit ever since. This is nothing new. The party in power will always push their power to the max, and the party out of power will fight them with all they've got. It's a good system.

[mookie2001]

You've given up some of your rights to get some semblance of law and order in return

It's a good system.

^“order out of chaos“? are you directly reading from the Illuminati handbook?

anyway, its sad that one party has to be pro constitution and the other is ignore the constitution because it will keep us safer

dam i HAD to read 1984 three times before college, you figure people would remember some of the main themes

[SWC Bonfire]

The republicans kept the US from becoming a Socialist Republic back in the 1930's.

Perhaps I should have said "Its a balanced cycle". Eventually, everybody gets fed up with who's in power and cleans house.

An ultra conservative will not be elected next presidential cycle. It's McCain's last best chance.

[mookie2001]

mccains a prick
the dude will sit there and scoff the the adminsration, criticize bush, then say he absolutley supports bush for president, what a chode
this country would be very foolish to elect another republican president, which theres a very good chance will happen, ultraconneocon or not