Netanyahu's rules of debate

[DarrinS]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/2011/05/netanyahus-rules-debate






If it had been a fight, they would have stopped it.

Friday's showdown between President Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wasn't close, and it wasn't pretty -- though Netanyahu didn't want to leave any obvious marks. The end result was that our president is suddenly aware that Chicago rules don't work on tough-minded leaders of countries surrounded by terrorists.

The battle between the warrior and the academic was bound to turn out this way. President Obama was a community organizer once. Netanyahu was commander of the Israeli Defense Forces' elite special forces unit, Sayeret Matkal. Faculty meetings can get rough, but not as rough as the hostage rescue mission to free Sabena Flight 571.

So the president's absurd declaration about 1967 borders is off the table. In fact, the table is gone. Israel can wait out the 20 months left to Obama's presidency, or even 48 months if American voters insanely choose to experiment with epic incompetence at the top for another term. Israel isn't going back to the Auschwitz borders, and only a naive and inexperienced academic would think that Thursday's speech would do other than worsen prospects for a negotiated settlement.

Netanyahu's take-down of the president should be on the TiVo of Mitt Romney, Tim Pawlenty, Mitch Daniels, Jon Huntsman (and, yes, Rick Perry if what I have been hearing is true). One of those men will be standing opposite the president in the debates of September and October of 2012, and Netanyahu showed exactly how to respond to the prolixities and pauses of the teleprompter-dependent president.

First, let the president talk, and talk, and talk. (And talk.) His frequent rhetorical cul-de-sacs numb the minds of listeners and set up the opportunity for sharp contrasts between the definitive and the ambiguous, the purposeful and the feckless.

Second, look right at him when responding. This so unnerved President Obama that his anger and frustration was visible. Whether he brought the sense of superiority to the White House or whether it erupted there, the president does not care for people who challenge him directly, cannot seem to believe that anyone would have the temerity to do so. This is the sign of a deep insecurity, and Netanyahu used it.

Next, speak from specifics, using facts and especially history. Netanyahu used history to spank the president on Friday. A GOP nominee armed with specific references -- not just to Obama's many blunders but also to clear evidence of the American exceptionalism that Obama has clearly rejected -- will put the wordy academic on his heels.

Finally, express core truths bluntly -- especially the harshest ones, such as the nature of Hamas. The president has been shrinking from clarity for more than two years, whether it is clarity on Iran, on the butcher Assad and the nutter Chavez, and most recently on the key Palestinian problem -- that Hamas, like Hezbollah to the north, wants Israel destroyed.

Netanyahu showed a worldwide audience that purposefulness can be as polite as it is pointed, and that Obama has a glass jaw. A clenched glass jaw, but a glass jaw nonetheless.

Israel isn't going back to the 1967 borders. Hamas cannot be a partner in peace negotiations. And Israel is a friend and a valued ally, not a lap dog. The president would do well to figure out that our country prefers Netanyahu's approach to his. Even the president's own party does.

[ChumpDumper]

Ah, more made up shit from the "opinion-editorial" page.

[Winehole23]

Announcing and celebrating the success of a probable political lame duck over Obama.

[Winehole23]

Premature?

[George Gervin's Afro]

IS darrins happy that a foreign leader came to America to show up our President?

I thought he was patriotic and all that..

[ChumpDumper]

And Israel is a friend and a valued allyHow are they allied with us?

What does the US get out of its alliance with Israel and the closing in on $100 billion it has cost?

[George Gervin's Afro]

does darrins realize that many americans want there to be peace in that region? many americans also realize Isreal will have to give up something in order for there to be peace. Or does darrins want perpetual war for which we fund a portion of it?

its hard to know what he feels because all he does is start threads.. and never leaves his thoughts

[DarrinS]

does darrins realize that many americans want there to be peace in that region?


If all that is preventing peace in the ME is the current size of Israel, then I'm all for going back to their 1967 borders. Too bad this doesn't comport with reality.

[ChumpDumper]

Where did Obama say that the 1967 borders were to be the immutable and final borders of any peace deal, Darrin?

Here's the transcript. Point it out to us.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/19/barack-obama-speech-middle-east

[ChumpDumper]

C'mon Darrin, let's discuss this. As I understand it, you might be ignorant of what Obama actually said.

[ElNono]

By: Hugh Hewitt

[ElNono]

I was hoping to read Netanyahu's rules of debate... guess I'll have to look somewhere else.

[RandomGuy]

Opinion piece of wishful thinking by some conservative with an obvious ax to grind, supported by absolutely no concrete references.

But were the rules federally mandated?

Did they fill up the Superdome?

All these questions remain unanswered. :hungry:

[LnGrrrR]

Is the "hero worship/warrior" mentality now one of the legs of the current Republican platform?

[Winehole23]

Like being a booster of Israel (more specifically, a likudnik) it's more of an unspoken assumption.

[DarrinS]

By: Hugh Hewitt

so?

[ChumpDumper]

Where did Obama say that the 1967 borders were to be the immutable and final borders of any peace deal, Darrin?

Here's the transcript. Point it out to us.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/19/barack-obama-speech-middle-east

[RandomGuy]

so?

Author of such gems as:

If It's Not Close, They Can't Cheat: Crushing the Democrats in Every Election and Why Your Life Depends on It

A Guide to Christian Ambition: Using Career, Politics, and Culture to Influence the World,

Painting the Map Red: The Fight to Create a Permanent Republican Majority,

and


A Mormon in the White House?: 10 Things Every American Should Know about Mitt Romney

As well as (surprise) a talk radio show.

You will have to pardon me if I don't accept his analysis of the meeting at face value.

Why are you not expressing some skepticism about the author's conclusions?

[rascal]

Israel wouldn't be anything without the United states support.
The US does not have to kiss Israel's ass.

[Nbadan]

Netanyahu is the Dick Cheney of Isreal....there won't be peace in the region until guys like Netanyahu are gone....

[ElNono]

so?

I was hoping to read

By: Netanyashu

given the thread and article's name. At least a few quotes from him.

[Capt Bringdown]

The Greenwald: Congress gives Netanyahu a better reception than their own president (http://www.salon.com/news/israel/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/05/24/israel)

According to ABC News, Netanyahu received more standing ovations from the U.S. Congress (29) than the U.S. President did the last time he spoke (25).

In sum, the same faction that spent the last decade demanding fealty to the Commander-in-Chief in a Time of War upon pain of being accused of a lack of patriotism (or worse) now openly sides with a foreign leader over their own President. The U.S. Congress humiliates itself by expressing greater admiration for and loyalty to this foreign leader than their own country's. And because this is all about Israel, few will find this spectacle strange, or at least will be willing to say so.

[RandomGuy]

What happens, though, if Egypt and Tunisia continue taking steps toward representative government, while Israel continues on its current path of expansionism in the West Bank and denial of full citizenship to Palestinians who live there?

The "Israel is the only democracy in the middle east" thing goes in the toilet, that's what happens.

[CosmicCowboy]

Netanyahu is the Dick Cheney of Isreal....there won't be peace in the region until guys like Netanyahu are gone....

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Netanyahu could take his pants off, and wipe his dick smeg onto the Constitution of the United States of America in front of the entire US congress and would receive thunderous, fervent applause, and Obama would be called out for not clapping.

[Nbadan]

Amassing WMDs, the only country in the region to do so, annexing appropriated land and using military force against civilians...yeah, real appeasers...

[ChumpDumper]

Really though, how is there a debate over the basics when Bibi actually agrees with Obama?


The status of the settlements will be decided only in negotiations. But we must also be honest. So I'm saying today something that should be said publicly by all those who are serious about peace: In any real peace agreement, in any peace agreement that ends the conflict, some settlements will end up beyond Israel's borders.

Now, the precise delineation of those borders must be negotiated. We'll be generous about the size of the future Palestinian state. But as President Obama said, the border will be different than the one that existed on June 4th, 1967. Israel will not return to the indefensible boundaries of 1967.

[Winehole23]

Bibi?

[ChumpDumper]

Bibi?lol yes.

I must've been thinking of Frasier's wife Lilith.

[DMX7]

I am so sick of Netanyahu's act.

I think even some Jewish Americans are getting sick of this guy trying to play the U.S. like a fiddle.

[Winehole23]

I thought his speech was pretty good for a speech devoid of anything newsworthy.

[boutons_deux]

"Christian" motherfuckers, and politicians who pander/lie to them and say they "know God":

I love giving money to Israel. And so there’s a picture there that people realize that, we stop helping Israel, we lose God’s hand and we’re in big time trouble.

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/25/dan-webster-israel-gods-hand/

[Capt Bringdown]

"Christian" motherfuckers, and politicians who pander/lie to them and say they "know God":

I love giving money to Israel. And so there’s a picture there that people realize that, we stop helping Israel, we lose God’s hand and we’re in big time trouble.

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/25/dan-webster-israel-gods-hand/



Rep. Dan Webster (R-FL):
You take away the money from Israel? No. That’s something we can’t do. Do I like foreign aid? Sometimes, but not every time. Don’t like giving money to our enemies, but I love giving money to Israel. And so there’s a picture there that people realize that, we stop helping Israel, we lose God’s hand and we’re in big time trouble.

[DMX7]

Here's an idea. Let's send Mel Gibson as our delegate.

[ChuckD]

I am so sick of Netanyahu's act.

I think even some Jewish Americans are getting sick of this guy trying to play the U.S. like a fiddle.

Netanyahu wants no part of any peace. If the Fatah/Hamas alliance were to accept every term he proposes, new terms would suddenly appear.

In peacetime, Likud is irrelavant, since their one and only salable product is fear.

[Winehole23]

In peacetime, Likud is irrelavant, since their one and only salable product is fear.Fear sells.

Even if the level of sales do not justify full on war, they do give sanguinary police/security actions like Cast Lead and Mavi Marmara a more respectable patina.

[Winehole23]

does not justify, more correctly.



(GFy, grammer nzis.)

[cheguevara]

very simple. Obama's plan is to try and find peace. Netanyahu, is even simpler, DO NOT LOSE.

Both are completely different goals and will never change. All the rest is bullshit waste of time.

[RandomGuy]

does not justify, more correctly.



(GFy, grammer nzis.)

That particular english grammar rule is not as solid as it once was.

The acceptability of a verb taking on the plurality of the nearest noun is increasing.

Depends on if you are a grammar socialist liberal or a grammar nazi.

[RandomGuy]

very simple. Obama's plan is to try and find peace. Netanyahu, is even simpler, DO NOT LOSE.

Both are completely different goals and will never change. All the rest is bullshit waste of time.

I think Lakud's strategy is more like "win at all costs", a common right-wing sentiment.

[Wild Cobra]

very simple. Obama's plan is to try and find peace. Netanyahu, is even simpler, DO NOT LOSE.

Both are completely different goals and will never change. All the rest is bullshit waste of time.
They are the same goal in the end. The problem is that Netanyahu cannot lower his military defenses until the others stop attacking Israel. Obama is a complete fool to think he can solve this without pointing the fingers at the real threat. Those attacking Israel.

[Winehole23]

that's a good point RG.

[Nbadan]

I think Lakud's strategy is more like "win at all costs", a common right-wing sentiment.

Imagine that s. Korea started building settlements in the demilitarized zone and N. Korea lobbed a few missiles ino the settlements because it was once N. Korean territory...

[ChumpDumper]

Imagine that s. Korea started building settlements in the demilitarized zone and N. Korea lobbed a few missiles ino the settlements because it was once N. Korean territory...Depends: did Jesus do anything there?

[DMX7]

Obama is a complete fool to think he can solve this without pointing the fingers at the real threat. Those attacking Israel.

Pointing the finger is a great way to bring two sides together. Why aren't you Secretary of State?

[boutons_deux]

AIPAC: A Lobby Without Parallel

Not surprisingly, my recent column on an ugly 1988 experience with AIPAC, the Israeli government, and late New York Times columnist William Safire elicited some controversy. I knew it would.

One, AARP and every other power lobby one can name (including the NRA, PhRMA, AHIP and the Chamber of Commerce) advocate for U.S. interests, as it sees them. (The AARP represents tens of millions of Americans over age 50 and the NRA represents millions of American gun enthusiasts.) AIPAC, on the other hand, gets its direction from a foreign government. If the Israeli government decides it will give up, say, downtown Hebron, AIPAC will say the same almost immediately. It is as independent of the Israeli government as the U.S. Communist Party was independent of Moscow.

Criticizing Israeli policies is, thanks to AIPAC, the "new third rail" of American politics, replacing Social Security and Medicare. (Both those programs are now attacked daily). AIPAC is the only lobby that both Democrats and Republics fear challenging.

AIPAC's effort to squelch Senate dissent succeeded. I remember one of AIPAC's top lobbyists telling me to thank Levin for the letter. "You'll see, MJ, after what Levin went through, no senator will ever pull that kind of thing again. You did us a favor," she said.

And, guess what? No senator has, not in 23 years.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg/aipac-a-lobby-without-par_b_870943.html?view=print

[boutons_deux]

Why Google Earth Can't Show You Israel

in 1997, Congress passed the National Defense Authorization Act [5], one section of which is titled, "Prohibition on collection and release of detailed satellite imagery relating to Israel." The amendment, known as the Kyl-Bingaman Amendment, calls for a federal agency, the NOAA's Commercial Remote Sensing Regulatory Affairs [6], to regulate the dissemination of zoomed-in images of Israel.

http://motherjones.com/print/117366

[boutons_deux]

Few Americans Sympathize With Palestinians

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/2020-4.png

http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/06/11/242791/few-americans-sympathize-with-palestinians/

[Wild Cobra]

Pointing the finger is a great way to bring two sides together. Why aren't you Secretary of State?
I would make a poor Secretary of State. I don't use enough tact. I would make a better Secretary or War... I mean Defense.

[ChumpDumper]

And you would still be horrible.

[TDMVPDPOY]

israel biting the hand that feeds them lmao usa

[Wild Cobra]

And you would still be horrible.
Probably, but worse as SoS.

[Winehole23]

Feller can dream, eh?

[Winehole23]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PuZoLkvmBbc/SRs6qSBuhVI/AAAAAAAAAgQ/IHmvDvHBasE/s400/idiocracy.jpg

[Winehole23]

oOPS. THIS GUY OF COURSE, IS THE sOs:

http://www.moneycone.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/idiocracy.jpg

[Winehole23]

:lol