Lol The Point Guard Position

[Ace]

Lol Rose
Lol Westbrook

[Venti Quattro]

lol chalmers

[Booharv]

While you're here DoK, answer me a quick fuck marry kill: John Hollinger, Bob Sarver, and Vince Young.

[Blouses]

:lol Kidd best PG in playoffs by far

[DJ Mbenga]

isiah is still the last to win it all as the lead pg on the team

[Isitjustme?]

Dun2_1-D4Qk

The Warden

[Ace]

Dun2_1-D4Qk

The Warden

The 8th seed

BTW he's going to the finals as the starting center old shot bag, fishing...

[Isitjustme?]

It only took having a starting lineup that included Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh to get him there.

Great nickname btw. What were you doing when that moment of inspiration hit you?

[lefty]

I'm pretty sure Rose would have his teammates more involved if they were good offensively.

But Westbrook has scorers around him; he has 0 excuse

[Isitjustme?]

I mean bragging about Joel Anthony :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Cane]

LeBron's the best PG :downspin: Magic Johnson on HGH :greedy

[Kyle Orton]

I approve of this thread tbh

[Ace]

I mean bragging about Joel Anthony :lmao :lmao :lmao

I mean best work in the West :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Kyle Orton]

:lol 38 year old Kidd vs. Mario Chalmers as the PG matchup in the finals
:lol Jay Bilas saying the NBA is becoming a "PG's league"

[dunkman]

Only pass first PG's are great players . . .

[Kyle Orton]

Only pass first PG's are great players . . .
Pass first PGs are just as bad if not worse. Being an assist whore is worse than being a scoring whore.

[Axe Murderer]

Only pass first PG's are great players . . .

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Axe Murderer]

lol two over the hill non-n!gger point guards starting in the Finals

[Pelicans78]

Lebron is the real PG on his team or should be. He's clearly one of the best passers and ball-handlers in the league and his size and athleticism is superior to anyone. Having him, Wade and Miller on the floor is their best lineup and their 4th quarter lineup. Make no mistake about it.

[Kyle Orton]

Lebron is the real PG on his team or should be. He's clearly one of the best passers and ball-handlers in the league and his size and athleticism is superior to anyone. Having him, Wade and Miller on the floor is their best lineup and their 4th quarter lineup. Make no mistake about it.
Well, the main reasoning for my PG theory is PGs being short, so Lebron being the one "point guard" carrying his team to a title proves my point more.

[Kyle Orton]

lol two over the hill non-n!gger point guards starting in the Finals
In all fairness Kidd is a half breed tbh

[Kyle Orton]

So is Bibby for that matter :lol

[JamStone]

isiah is still the last to win it all as the lead pg on the team

Assume you mean leading scorer at the point guard position?

[Axe Murderer]

ya but him and Bibby still lack the athleticism that most full blooded spear chuckers/coons/porch monkeys/banana lips have

[Pelicans78]

Well, the main reasoning for my PG theory is PGs being short, so Lebron being the one "point guard" carrying his team to a title proves my point more.

Yeah I agree. It has to take an exceptional smaller PG to even have a chance to carry his team. That player has to shoot extremely well off the dribble, but yet be an masterful ball-handler/passer. Basically has to be flawless offensively and have shooters on the wing who can defend, a PF who can defend and shoot/score, and a center who is athletic and can defend and be strong on the pick n roll. Plus, the bench has to be better than the other team's bench. All of this has to come true in order for a smaller PG to carry a team.

Right now, what the Bulls are missing is Rose being a complete offensive player and more shooters. Rose isn't a good passer, turns the ball over too much, and his offensive game is not no where close to being complete. Plus, they don't have enough shooters who can also defend. Their defense is strong, their bench is strong and they have a strong frontcourt. They just need Rose to improve a lot more and find more shooters. Its a very difficult formula which is why they're better off finding an All-Star wing scorer.

[Kyle Orton]

Mike Bibby had a black dad in the NBA, pretty hard to argue he doesn't have the genetics :lol

[Kyle Orton]

Yeah I agree. It has to take an exceptional smaller PG to even have a chance to carry his team. That player has to shoot extremely well off the dribble, but yet be an masterful ball-handler/passer. Basically has to be flawless offensively and have shooters on the wing who can defend, a PF who can defend and shoot/score, and a center who is athletic and can defend and be strong on the pick n roll. Plus, the bench has to be better than the other team's bench. All of this has to come true in order for a smaller PG to carry a team.

Right now, what the Bulls are missing is Rose being a complete offensive player and more shooters. Rose isn't a good passer, turns the ball over too much, and his offensive game is not no where close to being complete. Plus, they don't have enough shooters who can also defend. Their defense is strong, their bench is strong and they have a strong frontcourt. They just need Rose to improve a lot more and find more shooters. Its a very difficult formula which is why they're better off finding an All-Star wing scorer.
The Bulls are missing a closer who can take over when teams start defending Rose properly.

[JamStone]

Joe Johnson would have left several millions on the table leaving Atlanta, but if he were on the Bulls, the Heat would have to respect both Rose and Johnson and their ability to create shots for themselves. It would probably be a much better match-up with him as a secondary option (maybe even first option with Rose taking less responsibility in the scoring department). Plus Johnson is a nice defensive match-up for either Wade or LeBron. Not that he could stop either one of them. No one can really. But he and Deng would be two nice defensive options against Wade and LeBron.

[Pelicans78]

The Bulls are missing a closer who can take over when teams start defending Rose properly.

And that's Rose's fault since he acted like he didn't need an All-Star wing player next to him. He felt he could be the guy when he was no where close. He should easily attack Lebron or any other defenses the Heat throws at him, but his game is so flawed that he has no idea what to do except drive in contestedly or shoot deep jumpers. His offensive game is pathetic which is why the Bulls are better off looking for a true closer. Rose is no where close to being that guy.

[Kyle Orton]

And that's Rose's fault since he acted like he didn't need an All-Star wing player next to him.
co motherfuckin signed

[Ace]

And that's Rose's fault since he acted like he didn't need an All-Star wing player next to him.

:lol MVP

[Pelicans78]

Substitute Michael Jordan for Rose and this Bulls team would win it all in my opinion.

[Muser]

Substitute Michael Jordan for Rose and this Bulls team would win it all in my opinion.

You could say that about a lot of teams tbh.

[BRHornet45]

well sons this is what most Americans want ... overrated, chucking point guards. it doesn't matter if they only dish out 5 or 6 assist and shoot the ball 39%, as long as they score 25 points or more then they are da best!

[Bill_Brasky]

Lead a team to the ECF at age 22, be regarded as a massive failure. That's the lesson I learned here.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I approve of this thread tbh

Yeah, you were one of the first to argue how overrated the PG position was.

Seriously, props.

[Ace]

Should've mentioned this thread is in honor of DOK. Nigga was right...

[Ghazi]

Should've mentioned this thread is in honor of DOK. Nigga was right...

Not quite.

Jason motherfuckin Kidd (HoF PG) is gonna win it all this year.. :)

[Kyle Orton]

At an advanced age in a reduced role

[Ghazi]

just be happy for him (Marion) in June, DoK..ok?.. :)

[Josepatches_]

isiah is still the last to win it all as the lead pg on the team


TP and Billups.

[Kyle Orton]

Anyone thinking Parker was the Spurs' leader in 2007 or thinking the 2004 Pistons had any 1 clear cut best player has temporal lobe damage.

[NewcastleKEG]

Lol Rose
Lol Westbrook
? They would start on your team

[NewcastleKEG]

well sons this is what most Americans want ... overrated, chucking point guards. it doesn't matter if they only dish out 5 or 6 assist and shoot the ball 39%, as long as they score 25 points or more then they are da best!
Again, where was Paul the first 82 games of the season? Maybe then they wouldn't have played the Lakers in the 1st Round and actually won a playoff series.

Paul's accomplishments are still below Rose & D.Williams

[NewcastleKEG]

And that's Rose's fault since he acted like he didn't need an All-Star wing player next to him. He felt he could be the guy when he was no where close. He should easily attack Lebron or any other defenses the Heat throws at him, but his game is so flawed that he has no idea what to do except drive in contestedly or shoot deep jumpers. His offensive game is pathetic which is why the Bulls are better off looking for a true closer. Rose is no where close to being that guy.
This post is such a mess

- How did he act like he didn't need a All-Star wing player next to him? You have a link to him telling managment to not make a deal? They had an offer for Mayo and Courtney Lee and didn't pull the trigger. With Mayo this series is 2-2 but Lee wouldn't make much of a difference

- No idea what to do? It's Rose's fault the Bulls wouldn't make a wide open shot?

- ''True Closer''. Who are those? Mello, Dirk & Jamal Crawford?

- Paul is starting to reach overrated status on here. He lost a series against a team with no point guard and zero guards in general. Last time Paul won a playoff series?

[Ace]

? They would start on your team


IMO, other than the fact Miami has a two-headed punch. The Bulls have every other factor in their advantage

- Home Court
- Better coaching
- Better roster
- Better bench
- Better defense
- Superior post
- Most clutch player


If Bron & Wade don't rip of combined atleast 60 then Heat will lose guaranteed

What happened here?

[NewcastleKEG]

What happened here?
Haslem and Miller playing better than they have all year. Heat playing as Wilbon said atleast 25% better than they did against the Celtics

Without Haslem and Miller this series is atleast 2-2 for Bulls. A shot here and there has been the difference in 2 of the games and the other 2 blowouts for both teams

[Ace]

Haslem and Miller playing better than they have all year. Heat playing as Wilbon said atleast 25% better than they did against the Celtics

With Haslem and Miller this series is atleast 2-2 for Bulls. A shot here and there has been the difference in 2 of the games and the other 2 blowouts for both teams

More like the Bulls/Rose were overrated and got exposed.

[NewcastleKEG]

More like the Bulls/Rose were overrated and got exposed.
Exposed for what? Miller made his shots and Korver missed his. You won and we lost

Trying to make this out to be more complicated than you hit one more long 20 footer than us

[Ace]

Exposed for what? Miller made his shots and Korver missed his. You won and we lost

Trying to make this out to be more complicated than you hit one more long 20 footer than us

Was there a game lost by one shot? Did you even watch the series? Exposed as in Rose is not a closer, "COY" is getting out coached, superior post is not superior and regular season means nothing.

[NewcastleKEG]

Was there a game lost by one shot? Did you even watch the series? Exposed as in Rose is not a closer, "COY" is getting out coached, superior post is not superior and regular season means nothing.
Ah didn't Rose have a game winning shot opportunity there at the end of regulation last night. . .

And who are the closers of the NBA? Mello, Dirk & Crawford correct?

Agreed Haslem has made a big different. He's your only post presence. Bosh just sits next to the 3 point line waiting for wide open jumpers

[Ghazi]

This series could easily be 2-2...but it isn't..

Miami has made the plays down the stretch that CHicago hasn't..

Dallas will make those plays :)..

just be happy for him (Dirk).. k Ace? k Harlem?.. :)

[Ace]

Ah didn't Rose have a game winning shot opportunity there at the end of regulation last night. . .

And who are the closers of the NBA? Mello, Dirk & Crawford correct?

Agreed Haslem has made a big different. He's your only post presence. Bosh just sits next to the 3 point line waiting for wide open jumpers

One game the Bulls even had a chance to win and the "closer" couldn't get it done. Other than that and game 1, the Heat have won as I said they would. The Bulls/Rose were overrated, the Heat proved it to the world.

[NewcastleKEG]

One game the Bulls even had a chance to win and the "closer" couldn't get it done. Other than that and game 1, the Heat have won as I said they would. The Bulls/Rose were overrated, the Heat proved it to the world.
Ah wasn't Game 2 tied with under 4 minutes left?

[Ace]

Ah wasn't Game 2 tied with under 4 minutes left?

Was it decided by a single shot? You've already proved yourself to be one of the shitty posters here, now you're proving to be moronic as well...

[NewcastleKEG]

Was it decided by a single shot? You've already proved yourself to be one of the shitty posters here, now you're proving to be moronic as well...
"One game the Bulls even had a chance to win"

So for the record, 1 possession game with 2 minutes left is not a "chance''? - Game 2

Don't comment if you obviously haven't watched the series and just put on Sportscenter

[Ace]

"One game the Bulls even had a chance to win"

So for the record, 1 possession game with 2 minutes left is not a "chance''? - Game 2

Don't comment if you obviously haven't watched the series and just put on Sportscenter

Bulls had a shot to win every game if you want to put that way, being there were multiple times the game was tied. Either way it wasn't one shot from winning it like you said. Heat dominated the series, anyone who watched knows that.

[NewcastleKEG]

Bulls had a shot to win every game if you want to put that way, being there were multiple times the game was tied. Either way it wasn't one shot from winning it like you said. Heat dominated the series, anyone who watched knows that.
Games 1 and 3 were blowouts. 2 and 4 were up for grabs and Heat made open shots in the closing minutes unlike the Bulls, thus it's 3-1

[Kyle Orton]

lol NewcastleKEG stomping in his moral victory sour grapes

[NewcastleKEG]

lol NewcastleKEG stomping in his moral victory sour grapes
Let's keep this series thus far, in perspective.

[Kyle Orton]

The perspective is that the team with 2 veteran superstars made more plays down the stretch than the team with 1 inexperienced superstar, just as every non-Bulls and every non-Cavs fan said would happen, and every retarded Bulls fan claimed wouldn't happen.

[NewcastleKEG]

The perspective is that the team with 2 veteran superstars made more plays down the stretch than the team with 1 inexperienced superstar, just as every non-Bulls and every non-Cavs fan said would happen, and every retarded Bulls fan claimed wouldn't happen.
But Miller was making the plays down the stretch
But James had a offensive charge

Since Game 2 Heat's bench has played the Bulls equal (superior at times) and that's been the difference.

Last time LeBron was getting this much help was from Damon Jones and what happened..... Cavs made the finals

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Lebron has clearly been the best player in the series, by far, Rose hasn't even been close..

[Ace]

:lol Lebron has clearly been the best player in the series, by far, Rose hasn't even been close..

With the way this series has been Rose would be the 4th option on the Heat :lol MVP

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol True..Wade is a given, but Bosh outplaying him is icing..

:lol can't dominate Mike Bibby..

[NewcastleKEG]

LeBron: 27, 7.0 boards, 6 assists, 2.2 steals, 3.5 torv
Rose: 23, 3.7 boards, 6 assists, 3.7 steals, 3.7 torv


lol @ ''not even close''. Turn off ESPN and watch the games

[NewcastleKEG]

Wade: 18, 6 boards, 2.2 assists, 1.5 steals, 2.7 torv
Deng: 17, 7 boards, 1.5 assists, 2.0 steals, 2.5 torv


Fkn scrubs that dont watch the games and try and debate. Like I stated the difference has been the bench not the 1, 2 or 3 punches from each team.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Rose is shooting 36% from the field in the series, IIRC..how surprising that a Bulls fan would leave that out:lol..he's having one of the most inefficient series' for a superstar, in NBA history..

Lebron is shooting 45% from the field..a massive difference:lol..let's ignore a nearly 10% difference:lol..

This is with Lebron's primary defender being the Bulls best overall defender(Deng), and with Lebron guarding Deng, Rose and anchoring Miami's D..while Rose guards Bibby and his coach hides him on D in clutch time:lol:lol..

Lebron shuts down Rose in clutch time, while Rose is guarding Mike Miller at the 3-point line:lol..

Then you can factor in clutch time play, where Lebron has been huge, and Rose has been one of the worst players on the floor..

[Ace]

LeBron: 27, 7.0 boards, 6 assists, 2.2 steals, 3.5 torv
Rose: 23, 3.7 boards, 6 assists, 3.7 steals, 3.7 torv


lol @ ''not even close''. Turn off ESPN and watch the games

You're posting stats telling us to turn off ESPN? :lol I'm sure those are ESPN stats you posted which you just happened to leave out Rose's horrid shooting % or his even shit performances in 4th. That would be obvious if you watched the game.

[Ace]

Wade: 18, 6 boards, 2.2 assists, 1.5 steals, 2.7 torv
Deng: 17, 7 boards, 1.5 assists, 2.0 steals, 2.5 torv


Fkn scrubs that dont watch the games and try and debate. Like I stated the difference has been the bench not the 1, 2 or 3 punches from each team.

Lol more stats. Once again if you watched, instead of going to ESPN to pull last game stats. Wade has been much better on D than any of the Bulls players. Once again ESPN stats fail :lol
Deng's impact < Wade's
Not even close...

[Kyle Orton]

:lmao NewcastleKEG not posting Rose's FG%

[HarlemHeat37]

If only Rose worked on his game more, instead of gangbanging, tbh..maybe he could crack the 40% mark:lol..

[Kyle Orton]

If only Rose worked on his game more, instead of gangbanging, tbh..maybe he could crack the 40% mark:lol..
:lol true, he should spend more time on his game and he shoulda studied more for the SATs

[dirk4mvp]

Rose takes improving his shooting about as serious as he did the SAT.

[dirk4mvp]

motherfucker.

[NewcastleKEG]

http://themagicnegro.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/CircleJerk.jpg

[Ace]

:lol true, he should spend more time on his game and he shoulda studied more for the SATs

But but he's the regular season MVP :lol

[Kyle Orton]

NB:lol regul:lolr se:lolson MVP :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Newcastle getting gangbanged..

[NewcastleKEG]

Is the argument behind this bitching that if you swapped Rose & James the Bulls would be up in the series right now?

[Kyle Orton]

gangbanged..
Derrick Rose gangbanger :lol

[Ace]

Is the argument behind this bitching that if you swapped Rose & James the Bulls would be up in the series right now?

No, just were wrong about basically everything. Home court, coaching, bench, post presence and closer. Now you're being laughed at for your stupidity and because Rose is a overrated gangbanger. Wade and LeBron being better than Rose is a given...

[NewcastleKEG]

No, just were wrong about basically everything. Home court, coaching, bench, post presence and closer. Now you're being laughed at for your stupidity and because Rose is a overrated gangbanger. Wade and LeBron being better than Rose is a given...
- Bulls don't have 1 extra home game in this series?
- Coaching has been equal, if anything
- Post presence, Bulls are still out rebounding and scoring more inside but yes I didn't know Haslem would play and didn't think he would make this big of a difference
- Closer: No player has stood out as superior than the others

I guess I should have known Haslem would play. Congrats to you if you knew he would but you never stated it going into the series so you have absolutely nothing to brag about. You correctly called nothing in this series so far. Didn't you say it would be a sweep?

STFU already. Your team is winning off a couple lucky long jumpers

[dirk4mvp]

- Coaching has been equal, if anything


Wow. So what great coaching strategy did Thib come up with when LeBron started guarding Rose? Let him go 1 on 1 and jack up long contested jumpers?

[NewcastleKEG]

Wow. So what great coaching strategy did Thib come up with when LeBron started guarding Rose? Let him go 1 on 1 and jack up long contested jumpers?
That's on Rose. He should have passed out to an open shooter. Either way he got the shots he wanted against Bron just didn't make em

Picks and screens would have been bad, bringing another defender over

[dirk4mvp]

Either way he got the shots he wanted against Bron just didn't make em

They were long contested stepback jumpers that he can't make with a defender who's 5-6" taller than him in his face.



Picks and screens would have been bad, bringing another defender over


:lol yeah nothing positive could've came out of switching LeBron off Rose or creating someone other than an iso being guarded by LeBron.

[redzero]

:lol Kidd best PG in playoffs by far

Hell no.

[Ace]

- Bulls don't have 1 extra home game in this series?
- Coaching has been equal, if anything
- Post presence, Bulls are still out rebounding and scoring more inside but yes I didn't know Haslem would play and didn't think he would make this big of a difference
- Closer: No player has stood out as superior than the others

I guess I should have known Haslem would play. Congrats to you if you knew he would but you never stated it going into the series so you have absolutely nothing to brag about. You correctly called nothing in this series so far. Didn't you say it would be a sweep?

STFU already. Your team is winning off a couple lucky long jumpers

You idiot I made a thread of Haslem's return and a thread calling Heat in 5. Never said it would be a sweep but that the Bulls were not that good. No player has stood out as closer? Your stupidity knows no bounds, LeBron has been amazing as the closer.

[NewcastleKEG]

You idiot I made a thread of Haslem's return and a thread calling Heat in 5. Never said it would be a sweep but that the Bulls were not that good. No player has stood out as closer? Your stupidity knows no bounds, LeBron has been amazing as the closer.
Like the offensive charge. . . ?

[Ace]

Like the offensive charge. . . ?

Must be getting trolled, no way somebody is stupid...

[Kyle Orton]

Ace is bullying niggas in this thread

[NewcastleKEG]

Ace is bullying niggas in this thread
Every post is a contradiction to the last

[Ace]

NewcastleKEG's post count goes up, his IQ goes down...

[dunkman]

Pass first PGs are just as bad if not worse. Being an assist whore is worse than being a scoring whore.

No it's not.

An PG has the advantage of speed over other positions, however that's not enough and those players are easily blocked or forced to take bad shots. They seldom have great points per field goal attempt ratios.

That's why LeBron (6'8") was able to force Rose (6'3") to miss two consecutive shots late in the game to seal the unsurmountable 3:1 lead in the series for the Heat.

When you have a PG that takes 30 shots per night, even when he shots efficiently - which is not likely because of the lack of height, he keeps his team mates cold and inefficient because they won't have enough shots to get into rhythm. By scoring he also doesn't distribute, which is the primary goal of the PG position.

There is nothing bad in assisting too much, as long there aren't too many turnovers. Every assist is at least 2 or 3 points or FT's attempt, and it gets more players involved on offense.

That doesn't mean the PG shouldn't shot when it's the best option, but it's very important from that position to limit field goal attempts to get the offense going.

[Ace]

:lmao

[Ace]

Westchimp 43pts :lol

[TIMMYtoZO]

:lol I miss NewCastleKEG only because I wanted to see him have a meltdown when Lebron rings tomorrow night.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol Kori should unban him just for that purpose

:cry It's not fun making fun of D-Rose anymore :cry

[DMC]

When Bron Bron is getting the ball before the timeline on every play, I would say he's the PG.

[DMC]

Westchimp 43pts :lol

The Kobe formula has never worked.

Get the ball, shoot the ball. Sure he gets to the paint and scores, and yes he kept his team in it on offense, but people not involved on offense are lax of defense.

Offense by PG is a viable tactic, but not for the entire game. They beat the Spurs by getting everyone involved.

We all knew he would go into full hero mode at some point, you could see the teeth grinding and white knuckle fist clenching in the WCF where he wanted to hero it out, but he waited until they lost a game at home to expose his inner Kobe.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol no

Lebron is the starting SF on his team and he's a 6'8" nigbeast. He does absolutely nothing to disprove my PG theory just because he handles the ball a lot.

[DMC]

:lol no

Lebron is the starting SF on his team and he's a 6'8" nigbeast. He does absolutely nothing to disprove my PG theory just because he handles the ball a lot.

A Derrick Rose by any other name...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

huh?

One of the main reasons behind my theory is height i.e. a team built around the shortest player on the court is destined to fail. Derrick Rose is 6'3", Lebron is 6'8".

[DMC]

A player who runs the point more often than not is just as much the PG as the one they call PG.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol no, the PG is the player who plays point guard, which nearly all the time is the shortest player on the court for the team. Not the player who handles the ball a lot. He might be a point forward, but he's not a point guard. The straws you're grasping at to disprove my theory only strengthen it.

[DMC]

The fact that there are exceptions to your "theory" already nullify it prebirth. What you are now doing is saying "most often a team led is scoring by a PG cannot win a championship". "Most often" propositons are not theories, just observations.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

rofl so now you want to play semantics with the definition of the term "theory" as if this is some scientific hypothesis rather than a basketball observation :lmao

[DMC]

rofl so now you want to play semantics with the definition of the term "theory" as if this is some scientific hypothesis rather than a basketball observation :lmao

It's your word, not mine. As a college student I would think you would hold the word to a higher standard.

You have an observation: Teams led by PGs most often have failed to win a ring

However, the shitty play of Harden must factor in here. If the Thunder end up winning the series, will you say Westbrook is another exception or will you say the team wasn't led by their PG?

Obviously a PG can win a game for a team. It's been done.

[Clipper Nation]

Chris Paul is CARRYING the point guard position tbh... ring coming next year...

[Josepatches_]

A player who runs the point more often than not is just as much the PG as the one they call PG.

Set the plays,handles the ball,run the team.....

Yes,he's the PG of the team sometimes....not every play but he's playing PG.....even Harden is guarding him.

He's more PG than Chalmers tbh.

Magic wasn't the shortest player of the team on the court either.

[DMC]

It's like giving the football to a halfback who throws a touchdown. He doesn't become a QB, but if they do that on almost every play, he's playing the role of the QB.

Semantics indeed.

[HarlemHeat37]

Lebron has been running the majority of his plays in the post, mid-post, and mid-wing area of the floor, in this series..generally, a PG would not run an offense through these spots on the floor..

Miami has actually been more successful with Lebron playing more of a big man role, which plays into DOK's theory..

Also, Mario Chalmers has virtually no ability to play the PG position..he can't dribble, he makes bad decisions, he's a poor passer..yet he just left an imprint on a Finals win, similar to Derek Fisher, all those years prior..

[DMC]

Chris Paul is CARRYING the point guard position tbh... ring coming next year...

Is he joining the Heat?

[Bill_Brasky]

I think Ch:lollmers proved that PG is a flukey position

[DMC]

The loss was more about Harden and the rest of the team not getting stops, not scoring and making dumb moves than it was about their starting PG. Still, Brooks knows damn well what happens when RW goes full on hero mode.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It's your word, not mine. As a college student I would think you would hold the word to a higher standard.
Then you expect too much from someone posting on an NBA message board :lol


You have an observation: Teams led by PGs most often have failed to win a ring
I'll take it a step further: teams led by PGs (as in the PG is the best player on the team) have almost never won a ring with very rare exception)


However, the shitty play of Harden must factor in here. If the Thunder end up winning the series, will you say Westbrook is another exception or will you say the team wasn't led by their PG?
The Thunder are led by Durant. They wouldn't weaken my "observation" or "theory" or whatever if they won it. The fact Westbrook dominating the ball and making retarded plays for his team down the stretch only demonstrates how hard it is to win a championship when the PG is playing a significant role. It goes from hard to nearly impossible when the PG is the best player.


Obviously a PG can win a game for a team. It's been done.
A PG hasn't "led" a team to a championship in over 20 years. There's no way to dispute that.

[Killakobe81]

DOK's theory or observation is sound. I wondered the same, but never put it or broke it down the way he has. In HS ball, AAU etc. The best PG's do a LOT of winning. Most state championships in NY, LA or TX (states I have lived in) been led by great PG's. When I started watching ball Magic, Isiah won titles as lead PG's. It has been a while and doesnt look like it will happen this year either.

Harden wanted no part of open shots in that game. And the combination of Battier and Lebron's defense is impacting the ability for OKC to get the ball to durant in his sweet spots. He WANTS the ball late, but he aint doing shit with it since Game 2. The Heat are packing the paint and Harden is shooting like Game 7 John starks or Kobe in 2010. I cant blame Wesbrook for trying to keep them in it. His turnover late was bad as was his foul. But durant failing to secure that rebound was equally damning. that ball was in his airspace an dhe made a feeble attempt to get it. Battier went after that tip like it was his last meal. It seems, the heat may not only be a better team (not more talented) but they just WANT it more. Most title teams lately have that veteran (mavs had several) looking for that first ring. You see it in his play. OKC doesnt have that. Fisher and Perk both have rings, though know what it takes, but nobody wants this more than Lebron, Battier and Bosh.

[DMC]

Then you expect too much from someone posting on an NBA message board :lol

Understood, but if it's repeated often enough it becomes the standard even though it's wrong.


I'll take it a step further: teams led by PGs (as in the PG is the best player on the team) have almost never won a ring with very rare exception)

We said the same thing basically. The term "best player" can mean many things. It doesn't necessarily mean best scorer. Are you saying best player as best scorer or generally accepted as the best player, because KD is the best player on that team. Do you mean best player for that game, for that series or for that year?


The Thunder are led by Durant. They wouldn't weaken my "observation" or "theory" or whatever if they won it. The fact Westbrook dominating the ball and making retarded plays for his team down the stretch only demonstrates how hard it is to win a championship when the PG is playing a significant role. It goes from hard to nearly impossible when the PG is the best player.

That's a bit of confirmation bias. Westbrook did enough to win the game and made one boneheaded move at the end. Meanwhile those who didn't rebound that ball (everyone else) get off scott free.

I do agree that score first PGs are a detriment to their teams, even if they are great scorers though, because the ball has to make the defense work. When they saw that James was hurt, they should have attacked him with ball movement. Instead RW just kept doing the same things.



A PG hasn't "led" a team to a championship in over 20 years. There's no way to dispute that.

Tony Parker and Chauncey Billups both won Finals MVP. I don't know how else you would determine "led". If you mean a scoring leader, then you have to say so. Otherwise, Kidd was the leader of the Mavs last year. He ran the offense. Dirk made the shots and got the MVP, but Kidd was the leader of the offense.

[lefty]

A player who runs the point more often than not is just as much the PG as the one they call PG.
This.


Pippen was the real PG of the Bulls

[Ace]

Still stands true. Sorry Spurs fans...

[Clipper Nation]

Chris Paul is CARRYING the point guard position tbh... ring coming next year...

If only :(

[DMC]

Still stands true. Sorry Spurs fans...

There's not a large separation between Parker and Duncan in terms of their importance to the team's success. The fact that SA had two bigs to defend two bigs cannot be ignored. The Spurs scored well in the paint, but not because Tony is far and away the best player on the team. It's because they play team basketball. Teams that are far and away led by smaller PGs are, of course, not as built to win it all as are teams who have bigs as the best players on the team. That's because the concept of being the best player entails that the team runs the offense through you, and they funnel to you on defense. You get the shots, you get the stops, ergo you're seen as the best on the team. When your team's system has a Steph Curry chucking the ball from 30' instead of attacking the paint or playing inside out, the PG is going to be seen as the best on the team because he has the ball most often. Of course you'll be destroyed when your shots don't fall or if anyone shows on you and you have to try to hybrid in a post game mid series.

These are things we know.


Oh, and lol post Decision registrants..

Die hard Heat fans. :lmao

[Isitjustme?]

:lol no, the PG is the player who plays point guard, which nearly all the time is the shortest player on the court for the team. Not the player who handles the ball a lot. He might be a point forward, but he's not a point guard. The straws you're grasping at to disprove my theory only strengthen it.

At least the theory remains intact...

[MultiTroll]

Gregg Popovich’s request to Dejounte Murray: Study Chris Paul (mysanantonio.com) (https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Gregg-Popovich-s-request-to-Dejounte-Murray-10937820.php)

[lefty]

Gregg Popovich’s request to Dejounte Murray: Study Chris Paul (mysanantonio.com) (https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Gregg-Popovich-s-request-to-Dejounte-Murray-10937820.php)
Wait….

[DMC]

At least the theory remains intact...

GSW won 3 with Steph as the best player. Did those years simply vanish in your mind?

[DMC]

Wait….

CP was a great PG. He can't close games for shit.

[Thread]

CP was a great PG. He can't close games for shit.

He's shell shocked from all the campaigns that went empty at the last.

It's terribly human.

[Thread]

ADDENDUM:::


He's shell shocked from all the campaigns that went empty at the last. Like Barkley sitting on that TnT dais with those 2 that rang. That look, that tragic look deep in his countenance coupled with their heavily disguised combination of pity & giddy for his bereft state.

It's terribly human.

[Isitjustme?]

GSW won 3 with Steph as the best player. Did those years simply vanish in your mind?

Is this Stephen "I wanna be Kobe" Curry? Sounds like more of a shooting guard

[DMC]

Is this Stephen "I wanna be Kobe" Curry? Sounds like more of a shooting guard

Just admit I gotcha on that one.

[FrostKing]

Point Guard is the prized jewel of NBA

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Isiah
4. West
5. Curry
6. Nash
7. Kidd
8. Stockton
9. Paul
10. Luka


My final list in 2022

[lefty]

Point Guard is the prized jewel of NBA

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Isiah
4. West
5. Nash
6. Curry
7. Kidd
8. Stockton
9. Paul
10. Luka


My final list in 2022

Magic and Oscar didn’t win without a HOF center tbh

:lmao at Stockton being in that list

[FrostKing]

Magic and Oscar didn’t win without a HOF center tbh

:lmao at Stockton being in that list
Almost half of the list is Ring less. And yet Ron Harper has 5.

[FrostKing]

Nash/West vs Curry

A 4th title will dust them and move Steph into Top 3

[lefty]

Nash/West vs Curry

A 4th title will dust them and move Steph into Top 3

1. Curry is better than them
2. The ring argument doesn’t make sense

[DMC]

1. Curry is better than them
2. The ring argument doesn’t make sense

Seems to work for Tom Brady.

[lefty]

Seems to work for Tom Brady.

Media narratives, ESPN, Skip, etc rtc