Bargnani?

[jmanu20]

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/05/25/would-bargnani-look-good-wearing-silver-and-black/ (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/05/25/would-bargnani-look-good-wearing-silver-and-black/)

Yes, I'm aware that he has fallen short of expectations as a #1 pick. But, he does want to move to a warmer climate, and he is 7'0.'' Maybe a change of scenery is what he really needs to start living up to expectations...

[benefactor]

DPG thread.

[TimmehC]

Do we really need another big that can't rebound or defend?

[spurs10]

Sounds like this guy has some major issues. What's his fg% I wonder?

[spurs10]

Sounds like this guy has some major issues. What's his fg% I wonder?
his fg% is .448...3 pt. .345

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol italy

[TD21-FTW]

:vomit:

[ohmwrecker]

I would take him over Bonner any day of the week.

[DesignatedT]

Ill give them RJ and Bonner for him.

[Bruno]

Bargnani for RJ+#29 wouldn't be a bad trade for Spurs.

[EJFischer]

He is, without hyperbole, the worst player in the NBA. Literally the worst. This past season there was no player you could replace him with who would not produce more marginal wins:

http://arturogalletti.wordpress.com/2011/04/03/the-payoff/

[hater]

^ Hedo Turkoglu
Gilbert Arenas
Dick Jefferson
Luke Walton
Shannon Brown
Steve Blake

[ohmwrecker]

He is, without hyperbole, the worst player in the NBA. Literally the worst. This past season there was no player you could replace him with who would not produce more marginal wins:

http://arturogalletti.wordpress.com/2011/04/03/the-payoff/

The category in which Bargnani was last is marginal wins, which is highly influenced by his teammates' performance while he is on court. Considering he plays for the Raptors, it makes a lot of sense. Unless you think that Dejuan Blair is the third best Spurs player, your point is pretty invalid.

[EJFischer]

I do think DeJuan Blair is the third best Spurs player. And saying marginal wins are influenced by team performance reveals an ignorance of what the terms mean.

Calculated by individual statistics, Bargnani is the least productive player in professional basketball, and has been for years.

[lefty]

lol italy

:lol


I would take him over Bonner any day of the week.


Ill give them RJ and Bonner for him.


Bargnani for RJ+#29 wouldn't be a bad trade for Spurs.

Pretty much

I've watched a few Raptors games this season (it's not my fault, I live in Canada :lol ), and he has been solid overall this season

He is not a great defensive player, but he has improved in that area and he is willing to play D
He is 10 times more athletic than Bonner and unlike RJ looks for his shot

[hater]

I do think DeJuan Blair is the third best Spurs player.

http://chztotsandgiggles.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/funny-kids-pictures-epic-facepalm.jpg

[Nathan89]

Bargnani for RJ+#29 wouldn't be a bad trade for Spurs.

I would jump all over that deal. Too bad the Raptors won't.

[lefty]

I would jump all over that deal. Too bad the Raptors won't.
It's Colangelo, you never know

[ohmwrecker]

Last I checked basketball is a team sport, bubba. Which means you cannot assess a "wins" stat to an individual player without the whole team's performance being a factor.

And Dejuan Blair is certainly not the Spurs' third best player. He is ranked high on the marginal wins list because he played in the starting line-up for most of the year with the Spurs' most productive players.

[Nathan89]

I do think DeJuan Blair is the third best Spurs player.

:lmao Is he serious?

[sananspursfan21]

all o and no d

[lefty]

all o and no d
His D is ten times better than Bonner's though

[DesignatedT]

I do think DeJuan Blair is the third best Spurs player.

:lol

[yavozerb]

I do think DeJuan Blair is the third best Spurs player. And saying marginal wins are influenced by team performance reveals an ignorance of what the terms mean.

Calculated by individual statistics, Bargnani is the least productive player in professional basketball, and has been for years.

Good job...dont give up on your statistics even if it means that Blair is the best player for the spurs..:lol

I would gladly take Bargnani cause on offense he is a monster and on defense he still has the size to at least play down low and bang. Guy just needs a change of scenery I think and some decent players around him to maximize his talents.

[dbestpro]

Ill give them RJ and Bonner for him.

RJ, Bonner, and Blair for Bargnani and Kleiza will get it done.

Toronto needs players so a 3 for 2 works plus they get fan favorite Bonner back.

[Spurs da champs]

He's a poor mans dirk, exactly what we need.

[TDMVPDPOY]

He's a poor mans dirk, exactly what we need.

the only guy atm who is a poor man dirk is playin on the bucks, llyasova, dude shoots like him but weak on defense...

[jjktkk]

Bargnani for RJ+#29 wouldn't be a bad trade for Spurs.

This.

[pad300]

I'd happily do any of the 2 straight up trades posted here
Bargnani
for either
Bonner and RJ
or RJ + #29

I would be hesitant about getting Kleiza. He's really been pretty sucky.
It's not that Barg is a good player, but that we are getting rid guys who simply don't cut it if you want a championship squad. They don't have the mental toughness to succeed in high pressure spots. Maybe Barg doesn't have it either, but I see only one way to really find out.

[lmbebo]

I'd go with those trades listed.

He's not a foundation player, but he could be a piece.

[Cessation]

Bargnani is descent, if you obsessed with stretch bigs, the way pop is, he's better than most.

[TDMVPDPOY]

we need a player with that extra winning mentality die attitude....not some softcock

[ChuckD]

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/05/25/would-bargnani-look-good-wearing-silver-and-black/ (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/05/25/would-bargnani-look-good-wearing-silver-and-black/)

Yes, I'm aware that he has fallen short of expectations as a #1 pick. But, he does want to move to a warmer climate, and he is 7'0.'' Maybe a change of scenery is what he really needs to start living up to expectations...

He's Bonner, paid much more.

[ChuckD]

He's a poor mans dirk, exactly what we need.

He's a homeless man's Turkoglu.

[TwelveGs210]

I do think DeJuan Blair is the third best Spurs player.

GuitarDude27?

[Spurs da champs]

He's a homeless man's Turkoglu.

First it's he's Bonner now he's a homeless man's Turkoglu?
:blah
This guy hasn't even hit his full potential yet, I think with coaches who push their players to the max like here he'd be successful.

[Sigz]

He spreads the floor as greatly as Matt Bonner spreads his ass cheeks for Pop.

[SenorSpur]

Do we really need another big that can't rebound or defend?

In a word, "NO". Besides we already have one of these - he's named Matt Bonner.

[ChuckD]

First it's he's Bonner now he's a homeless man's Turkoglu?
:blah
This guy hasn't even hit his full potential yet, I think with coaches who push their players to the max like here he'd be successful.

Or Maybe he's just a paycheck player, content to collect his millions. When you've been in the league for 5 years, you are what you are. He's not going to show any great leap in numbers or effort at this point.

Scary numbers, career:

AB - FG% 44.1 3G% 37.1
MB - FG% 47.0 3g% 41.4

Andrea (lol) is less efficient and shoots a lot more than Bonner and plays about the same D. Oh, and he makes a LOT more.

[Spurs da champs]

Or Maybe he's just a paycheck player, content to collect his millions. When you've been in the league for 5 years, you are what you are. He's not going to show any great leap in numbers or effort at this point.

Scary numbers, career:

AB - FG% 44.1 3G% 37.1
MB - FG% 47.0 3g% 41.4

Andrea (lol) is less efficient and shoots a lot more than Bonner and plays about the same D. Oh, and he makes a LOT more.

You realize he's takes a lot more shots then Bonner? Bonner takes 2 or 3 shots a game, great argument.

BTW you failed to mention his 1st year as the guy 21points per game nice cherry picking.

[yavozerb]

I do think DeJuan Blair is the third best Spurs player. And saying marginal wins are influenced by team performance reveals an ignorance of what the terms mean.

Calculated by individual statistics, Bargnani is the least productive player in professional basketball, and has been for years.


In a word, "NO". Besides we already have one of these - he's named Matt Bonner.

:lol, so now every 4/5 white guy who can shoot is now compared to Bonner.. Bargnani has all-star type talent is much better than Bonner.

[Cane]

Bargnani is a much better shot creator than Bonner and will also block a shot every now and then (he's still a bad defender though).

But he's like a caricature of Dirk Nowitzki and not exactly cheap either. However the Spurs might be looking for another big man after McDyess retires...

[TD 21]

Bargnani for RJ+#29 wouldn't be a bad trade for Spurs.

No, but it would be for the Raptors. If Bargnani get's traded, the Pacers seem like the best fit. Either Granger and McRoberts for Bargnani and the 5th pick or George, Posey and the 15th pick for Bargnani.

I see no fit with the Spurs. There's no reason for the Raptors to want Jefferson (who'd have to be in it for financial reasons) and I can't see the Spurs trading Splitter, who not only has the most value of the Spurs young players, but would be by far the best fit with the Raptors.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Spurs inquire, though. He's low maintenance, still young and is essentially a significantly better version of Bonner. So offensively, he'd be a nice fit. Unfortunately, he's an atrocious defender and arguably the worst rebounding big in the entire league. But since this organization no longer puts a premium on things like that, I'm sure they wouldn't care. That or they'd think that if he came to the Spurs, they'd magically turn him into a more well rounded player (because that worked so well with Jefferson).

Short term, I can't see Bargnani being a championship caliber role player. Long term, if he's one of your three best players (which he has to be, considering his salary), you're going to be a sub .500 team.

[ChuckD]

You realize he's takes a lot more shots then Bonner? Bonner takes 2 or 3 shots a game, great argument.

BTW you failed to mention his 1st year as the guy 21points per game nice cherry picking.

So, he's better because he takes more shots and shoots a lower percentage? How do you figure that? The Bonner Bar of 47/41 shouldn't be that hard to hit as a full time player if you're REALLY a star and not just being paid like one.

You know Ron Mercer was just this kind of player in his career before he got here: a low percentage chucker who scored 20 on a bad team. He was released.

[pad300]

No, but it would be for the Raptors. If Bargnani get's traded, the Pacers seem like the best fit. Either Granger and McRoberts for Bargnani and the 5th pick or George, Posey and the 15th pick for Bargnani.



If you think that Toronto gets that much for Barg you're nuts. He's signed for 5 years at significant money. He's defensively poor and offensively inefficient. The only reason I like those trades above is because of who's leaving, not who we're getting...

[Mel_13]

No, but it would be for the Raptors.

Exactly. Colangelo drafted him with #1 overall pick in 2006 and made him, after Bosh left, the face of the franchise with a contract to match. Colangelo just got a multiyear extension, so he's not trading Bargnani for RJ plus filler. I don't think he's interested in trading in Bargnani at all, but he definitely won't move him for such a pitiful return.


He's low maintenance, still young and is essentially a significantly better version of Bonner. So offensively, he'd be a nice fit. Unfortunately, he's an atrocious defender and arguably the worst rebounding big in the entire league.

That's a statistical fact:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2011&year_max=2011&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=84&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=100&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=trb_pct

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2007&year_max=2011&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=84&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=500&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=trb_pct

[DPG21920]

Bargnani's contract is not that bad for a 20 PPG scorer.

[G-Dawgg]

I watch the Raptors alot (even though they suck, I'm a true fan) and I can tell you that Bargnani is very soft, but he can really shoot the ball. He blocks some shots and can score a bit in the post. He would really be a huge upgrade over Bonner, and has the Potential to be a star.

Unfortunately I doubt the Raptors would let him go. He's their foundation.

[DPG21920]

But yes, it is highly unlikely he is moved for something like RJ.

[ChuckD]

Bargnani's contract is not that bad for a 20 PPG scorer.

That's a stat bar that was popular 20-25 years ago. Now, it's all about how many shots did it take to get your 20. With Andrea, the answer is 'a lot'.

If the Spurs learned anything this year, it's that you can't put together a top team with offense and no defense. If you make the offense inefficient, it's not going to change that result for the good, only make it worse.

[DPG21920]

His contract isn't that bad, especially when you compare him to guys with equal contracts.

[ChuckD]

His contract isn't that bad, especially when you compare him to guys with equal contracts.

The worst thing about his contract is the length. Under the proposed new CBA, that last year his salary will be 26.7% of the cap for his team. That's a lot for a volume chucker.

[Nathan89]

The fact is that he is way better than Rj. So if we can trade Rj and some trash for him you have to do it. That said it's not going to happen.

[jmanu20]

I think this has to be the most comments for any thread I posted!

Back on topic, I agree that Bargnani is neither a great rebounder nor a good shot blocker for his size.

However, two of the things that the Spurs need in the worse way are youth and size. At 25 years old and 7'0'', he satisfies both of those. Plus, an 82% career FT shooter would be a nice contrast from the traditionally bad Spurs FT shooter.

He's still young enough for his defense to come around, and he is already solid enough on offense.

Bottom line, if the Spurs can find a way to get him and get rid of Bonner and/or Jefferson, they should pull the trigger on it.

[mabrignani]

Italy!!!

[mabrignani]

bring over bargnani, belinelli and gallinari. thats the future right there

[++SaiNt TiAg0++]

if mr bargnani means matt bonner is gone then hell yeah ill give up matts choke job on offense/defense when a game actually means something...

im sure bargnani makes more shots than bonner in clutch, and im tired of seeing that redhead pass the ball while hes wide open. pathetic dweeb, ill take bargnani any day why is this even a question what option do we really have?

[NewJerSpur]

Ryan Richards on the way....

[Bruno]

If you do a trade for Bargnani, the next step would be to get defensive minded SF who is also a good rebounder.

For example, a scenario that would makes sense for Spurs is:
RJ+#29 for Childress.
Bonner+Dice for Bargnani.

[objective]

If you do a trade for Bargnani, the next step would be to get defensive minded SF who is also a good rebounder.

For example, a scenario that would makes sense for Spurs is:
RJ+#29 for Childress.
Bonner+Dice for Bargnani.

trade Hill to move up to late lottery if Singleton falls.

Still a pipe dream, I know.

Anyways, Colangelo is in love with Bargnani and isn't giving him up for trash like RJ and a 29th pick. It's part of BC's ego, sticking with Bargnani to prove that he was right to take him.

Maybe if the Spurs lucked out Hill and Blair added to any other combination of players would be enough.

[SenorSpur]

:lol, so now every 4/5 white guy who can shoot is now compared to Bonner.. Bargnani has all-star type talent is much better than Bonner.

Uh, he doesn't rebound and he doesn't defend. He's also demonstrated no interest in playing in the post. You figure it out.

While Bonner has a shitty skill-set, at least he does try.

Damn, I just defended Bonner? That's how bad this has become.

Bottom line, the Spurs already have two terrible defenders on their frontline. They don't need another.

[mystargtr34]

Spurs would likely have to give up Hill + Blair if they were going to pawn off RJ to the Raptors for Bargnani.

Something like RJ + Blair + Hill + 1st for Andrea + fillers. Even then your not sure if the Raptors do that. Throw in Bonner if he has positive value.

[mystargtr34]

Uh, he doesn't rebound and he doesn't defend. He's also demonstrated no interest in playing in the post. You figure it out.

While Bonner has a shitty skill-set, at least he does try.

Damn, I just defended Bonner? That's how bad this has become.

Bottom line, the Spurs already have two terrible defenders on their frontline. They don't need another.

Bonner shouldn't be compared to Bargnani... its like comparing Al Jefferson to a prime Tim Duncan because they both have a good post game. Andrea is 7'0 and has a strong base which allows him not to be treated like a 12 year old child when being posted up by a big man.. the same cant be said for Bonner. He's also a tough cover on iso's and causes alot of matchup problems for opposing big men because of his ability to put the ball on the floor.. plus his shooting ability speaks for itself.

Huge upgrade.

[Bruno]

I wouldn't trade a lot for Bargnani. I wouldn't even include Blair, Anderson or Hill for him.

Bargnani is a damn talented player and while I think some of his struggles could be solved in SA, there are some huge red flags surrounding him.

Rebounding is a huge red flag.

March 2010:
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/03/22/bargnani/

Bargnani is asked how he gets beat on the boards.

"Being lazy maybe," he says. "That's the only reason it can be. I've got the body, I've got everything to take 10 rebounds a game. It's just sometimes I get lazy."

He followed these statements by having his worst rebounding season with 5.2 rebounds per 36 minutes which is comparable to Manu's production on the board.

On top of that, Bargnani has a big contract that will get even bigger thanks to a 5% trade bonus. Adding incentives in addition of taking this contract is too much. RJ + #29 or Dice +Bonner (if Spurs has another deal on the table to trade RJ for a defensive minded SF) should be Spurs best offer. If Raptors don't like that, they can keep Bargnani.

[ChuckD]

Other team's players MUST be better than ours...

[temujin]

Anyone, litterally, but Bargnano.

[portnoy1]

I've watched Bargnani for some years now. He has the POTENTIAL to be what the Spurs want (at least in alot of areas). 1 - He can shoot from anywhere and can create his own shot off the dribble and sometimes in the post area 2 - He is a legit 7 footer with extra long arms 3 - He is quick and mobile on the offensive end, and at times has shown the ability to stay in front of the athletic and quick 4's in the league. 4 - He can block shots in help situations and because of his long arms he can do so in one on one situations.

That all sounds great, BUT due to piss poor coaching and a lack of effort he is a poor rebounder and can be lazy offensively (settling for fadeways when he can drive or post up). Rebounding and a Work Ethic (2 things that usually dont get better with time) are the reason he probably would never wear a Spurs jersey.

He has the ability to be a much better rebounder, Defender, Shotblocker and Scorer than Bonner, but unlike Bonner he gives no effort. Matt Bonner just SUCKS in the above categories but he tries hard. Bargnani, as big of a fan of him as I am is simply lazy. And I dont know if even Pop can work a summer with someone who is unwilling.

[SenorSpur]

I wouldn't trade a lot for Bargnani. I wouldn't even include Blair, Anderson or Hill for him.

Bargnani is a damn talented player and while I think some of his struggles could be solved in SA, there are some huge red flags surrounding him.

Rebounding is a huge red flag.

March 2010:
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/03/22/bargnani/


He followed these statements by having his worst rebounding season with 5.2 rebounds per 36 minutes which is comparable to Manu's production on the board.

On top of that, Bargnani has a big contract that will get even bigger thanks to a 5% trade bonus. Adding incentives in addition of taking this contract is too much. RJ + #29 or Dice +Bonner (if Spurs has another deal on the table to trade RJ for a defensive minded SF) should be Spurs best offer. If Raptors don't like that, they can keep Bargnani.

He actually admit that he's lazy? What an honest guy. That translates into a deliberately low motor. Pass.

[jjktkk]

He actually admit that he's lazy? What an honest guy. That translates into a deliberately low motor. Pass.


+1. Its bad enough hes soft, but he admits hes lazy too?

[Bruno]

He actually admit that he's lazy? What an honest guy. That translates into a deliberately low motor. Pass.

Yep, that's bad. Bargnani is also at least 20 lbs too heavy. If Spurs do a trade for Bargnani, there will have a lot of psychological and physical work to do. It would be a huge gamble to make but can Spurs really improve their team without taking that kind of gamble?

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs never managed to stay clear of lazy players with low desires. They've had any interest in the Benoit Benjamins, Joe Barry Carrolls, or Michael Olawakandi's of the NBA. For those of you who don't remember them, all were players who were talented bigs, yet their careers were derailed because they were chronically lazy. If they passed on players like that, wHh in the world would they suddenly start salivating over a lazy player like Bargnani? I know he's a Euro, and Pop favors Euros, but I'd be shocked if he was interested in ths dude.

[lefty]

XCDVfdeA2E0

[Bruno]

The Spurs never managed to stay clear of lazy players with low desires. They've had any interest in the Benoit Benjamins, Joe Barry Carrolls, or Michael Olawakandi's of the NBA. For those of you who don't remember them, all were players who were talented bigs, yet their careers were derailed because they were chronically lazy. If they passed on players like that, wHh in the world would they suddenly start salivating over a lazy player like Bargnani? I know he's a Euro, and Pop favors Euros, but I'd be shocked if he was interested in ths dude.

Well, I'm not a fan at all of Spurs adding Bargnani. I'm more in "a desperate time, desperate answer" state of mind.

[spurs10]

I'm sure he would be well vetted, and at least would have to convince Pop and RC that he's willing to work his ass off, before they brought him down. That's a pretty stupid thing to say in the press about his laziness, unless it's true....

[cantthinkofanything]

I'm sure he would be well vetted, and at least would have to convince Pop and RC that he's willing to work his ass off, before they brought him down. That's a pretty stupid thing to say in the press about his laziness, unless it's true....

It could just be a misunderstanding of connotation we have of "lazy". He may have meant to say that he just needed to work harder.

[SenorSpur]

Well, I'm not a fan at all of Spurs adding Bargnani. I'm more in "a desperate time, desperate answer" state of mind.

Clearly, he would be a step back. The Spurs need talented, physical bigs with size, skill and hunger. Personally, I'd rather they go young and stay away from the veteran frontcourt player - especially one who is admittedly lazy.

[TJastal]

Bargnani would be an awesome pickup. For the simple fact that (in theory anyway) Pop would use him instead of Bonner for "spreading the floor".

And as far as his lack of rebounding, it's not that big of deal IMO when you consider the other things he brings to the table. He's 7' tall and can help protect the paint which is the most important thing. And he can shoot lights out from anywhere on the court. Timmy can handle most of the rebounding duties plus Splitter/Blair off the bench would help shore up the slack. I would love to see this guy starting alongside Timmy next season and would even trade Parker in order to get him.

[Mel_13]

Bargnani would be an awesome pickup. For the simple fact that (in theory anyway) Pop would use him instead of Bonner for "spreading the floor".

And as far as his lack of rebounding, it's not that big of deal IMO when you consider the other things he brings to the table. He's 7' tall and can help protect the paint which is the most important thing. And he can shoot lights out from anywhere on the court. Timmy can handle most of the rebounding duties plus Splitter/Blair off the bench would help shore up the slack. I would love to see this guy starting alongside Timmy next season and would even trade Parker in order to get him.


http://500motivators.com/plog-content/thumbs/motivate/me/large/128-double-facepalm-when-the-fail-is-so-strong-one-facepalm-is-not-enough.jpg

[TJastal]

http://500motivators.com/plog-content/thumbs/motivate/me/large/128-double-facepalm-when-the-fail-is-so-strong-one-facepalm-is-not-enough.jpg

So I'm guessing you'd rather see another year of Bonner getting 20 minutes a game, and Blair starting because Bonner can't be paired with him.

[Mel_13]

So I'm guessing you'd rather see another year of Bonner getting 20 minutes a game, and Blair starting because Bonner can't be paired with him.

I know you can't be bothered to do any research on your own, but could you at least read what other posters have provided to you in this thread?

I've reached the conclusion that you have no interest in any reasonable conversation about basketball and are simply trolling for reactions.

[TJastal]

I know you can't be bothered to do any research on your own, but could you at least read what other posters have provided to you in this thread?

I've reached the conclusion that you have no interest in any reasonable conversation about basketball and are simply trolling for reactions.

Maybe if you actually provided a clue to whatever it is that is lodged up your asshole I could respond in kind. There are literally dozens of viewpoints on Bargnani am I supposed to guess here?

[024]

No, on many different levels. However, like all trades, if it gets rid of Jefferson and bonner, i approve.

[Mel_13]

Maybe if you actually provided a clue to whatever it is that is lodged up your asshole I could respond in kind. There are literally dozens of viewpoints on Bargnani am I supposed to guess here?

Seriously? You couln't detect clear and obvious themes from the posts in this thread? I'll make easy for you.

He's an historically bad rebounder. Not just below average. Historically bad. Facts have been provided.

He does not give good effort. That's in his own words.

He does not provide rim protection. Look up his block numbers and find out what has been written about him by the Toronto press. You can find this on the Raptors official website:

Which brings us to Bargnani who is seven feet tall. I once asked Chris Bosh if Bargnani could pull down 10 boards a game. He looked at me like I had two heads. “He’s seven feet tall,” he said. (He averaged 5.2 rpg in 35.7 mpg last season)

You can call Bargnani a centre all you like. He can give you pretty good on-the-ball defence and a few blocks but he views the backboard like it’s made of poison ivy. And while he has pledged to improve, Bargnani treats weak-side defence as if it were invented by the Athenians.

http://www.nba.com/raptors/ulmer_blog/2011/may

Your assertion that "can shoot lights out from anywhere on the court" does not hold up to even a cursory fact check (unless 34.5% from beyond the arc is lights out). For example, he does not shoot as well the current stretch 4 on the Spurs roster. (Which isn't much of sin, since the incumbent shoots so well, but Bargnani REBOUNDS WORSE THAN MATT BONNER. There's simply no excuse for a player with his physical gifts to be the worst rebounding big in the NBA)

When his trade kicker is factored in, he will be owed almost 44M over the next 4 years.

AND beyond all that, you think it would be a good idea to trade Tony Parker to acquire this vastly overpaid underachiever.

[jjktkk]

Maybe if you actually provided a clue to whatever it is that is lodged up your asshole I could respond in kind. There are literally dozens of viewpoints on Bargnani am I supposed to guess here?

Contradict yourself much? One clue, is you bitch and moan about Pop overusing Bonner, but You would be happy acquiring another soft, stretch 4, who doesn't play up to his height, nor rebound, and admitted hes lazy?

[TJastal]

Seriously? You couln't detect clear and obvious themes from the posts in this thread? I'll make easy for you.

He's an historically bad rebounder. Not just below average. Historically bad. Facts have been provided.

He does not give good effort. That's in his own words.

He does not provide rim protection. Look up his block numbers and find out what has been written about him by the Toronto press. You can find this on the Raptors official website:

Which brings us to Bargnani who is seven feet tall. I once asked Chris Bosh if Bargnani could pull down 10 boards a game. He looked at me like I had two heads. “He’s seven feet tall,” he said. (He averaged 5.2 rpg in 35.7 mpg last season)

You can call Bargnani a centre all you like. He can give you pretty good on-the-ball defence and a few blocks but he views the backboard like it’s made of poison ivy. And while he has pledged to improve, Bargnani treats weak-side defence as if it were invented by the Athenians.

http://www.nba.com/raptors/ulmer_blog/2011/may

Your assertion that "can shoot lights out from anywhere on the court" does not hold up to even a cursory fact check (unless 34.5% from beyond the arc is lights out). For example, he does not shoot as well the current stretch 4 on the Spurs roster. (Which isn't much of sin, since the incumbent shoots so well, but Bargnani REBOUNDS WORSE THAN MATT BONNER. There's simply no excuse for a player with his physical gifts to be the worst rebounding big in the NBA)

When his trade kicker is factored in, he will be owed almost 44M over the next 4 years.

AND beyond all that, you think it would be a good idea to trade Tony Parker to acquire this vastly overpaid underachiever.

Already addressed the rebounding issue. For someone so butthurt about my lack of research, you seem hypocritical.

He's essentially Bonner's replacement. Bonner sucks. We know this. He'll be much better than Bonner. He's not overpaid for what he brings to the table. He could become a legit Dirk type of player and average 25+ ppg. This would be good for Tim Duncan, and allow him to focus himself on the defensive side fo the ball. He's also big enough to hold his own so Timmy wouldn't need to look over his shoulder every two seconds.

Losing Parker hurts, but there could be worse things. Parker will cost more than Bargnani will over his contract.

Stone cold reality is we ain't gettin' rid of RJ and Parker is the spurs' best trade asset atm. The spurs need a solid addition to the frontline more than they need a starting point guard right now. Them's the facts. RJ has not become a good scoring option that everyone thought he would. Bargnani and his 20+ ppg will fill this role perfectly and then some.

Sorry if you disagree but there's really no need to get all bent out of shape, ain't the first time nor the last you and I don't see eye to eye.

[TJastal]

Contradict yourself much? One clue, is you bitch and moan about Pop overusing Bonner, but You would be happy acquiring another soft, stretch 4, who doesn't play up to his height, nor rebound, and admitted hes lazy?

Bargnani would not be like Bonner, he actually is a factor in the paint in every game I've ever seen him play.

The lazy thing can be corrected with the proper motivational techniques.

[Nathan89]

He's Bonner, paid much more.


In a word, "NO". Besides we already have one of these - he's named Matt Bonner.


So, he's better because he takes more shots and shoots a lower percentage? How do you figure that? The Bonner Bar of 47/41 shouldn't be that hard to hit as a full time player if you're REALLY a star and not just being paid like one.

You know Ron Mercer was just this kind of player in his career before he got here: a low percentage chucker who scored 20 on a bad team. He was released.


Uh, he doesn't rebound and he doesn't defend. He's also demonstrated no interest in playing in the post. You figure it out.

While Bonner has a shitty skill-set, at least he does try.

Damn, I just defended Bonner? That's how bad this has become.

Bottom line, the Spurs already have two terrible defenders on their frontline. They don't need another.

:lmao Comparing a potential all-star to Bonner.

:lmao Thinking that people think he's only better because he gets better numbers as a result of shooting more at a lower%. When in reality Bonner could never score anywhere close to 20ppg. The high percentage and points Bonner gets come as a result of his teammates. There just isn't going to be enough open looks. A team could easily hold Bonner to an average of 3 or less points if they wanted to guard Bonner and let the other Spurs go one on one. Meanwhile Bargnani does get guarded and still puts up over 20ppg.


He's a homeless man's Turkoglu.

:lmao Is he talking about the same Turkoglu that played 74 games, averaged 30.7 minutes and scored 11.3ppg on .409 shooting last year for Toronto?

Oh, I hope not because me pointing this out would be pretty embarrassing.:lmao

[TD 21]

If you think that Toronto gets that much for Barg you're nuts. He's signed for 5 years at significant money. He's defensively poor and offensively inefficient. The only reason I like those trades above is because of who's leaving, not who we're getting...

As Mel_13 alluded to, Bargnani means more to Colangelo than he should based on merit. They're not just going to hand him away. He's overpaid, but his contract isn't an albatross. Not when he's 26, 7-0, mobile and skilled. I'm not a fan, but with those physical tools, he's got value.

I'm not suggesting for sure the Pacers would do either deal, but they're both realistic. The Pacers have a lot of cap space and are looking for a starting PF. Off the top of my head, Martin and Landry are the best free agents at PF. Which means they're better off going the trade route. The Raptors and Jazz are the two best fits.

[temujin]

Seriously? You couln't detect clear and obvious themes from the posts in this thread? I'll make easy for you.

He's an historically bad rebounder. Not just below average. Historically bad. Facts have been provided.

He does not give good effort. That's in his own words.

He does not provide rim protection. Look up his block numbers and find out what has been written about him by the Toronto press. You can find this on the Raptors official website:

Which brings us to Bargnani who is seven feet tall. I once asked Chris Bosh if Bargnani could pull down 10 boards a game. He looked at me like I had two heads. “He’s seven feet tall,” he said. (He averaged 5.2 rpg in 35.7 mpg last season)

You can call Bargnani a centre all you like. He can give you pretty good on-the-ball defence and a few blocks but he views the backboard like it’s made of poison ivy. And while he has pledged to improve, Bargnani treats weak-side defence as if it were invented by the Athenians.

http://www.nba.com/raptors/ulmer_blog/2011/may

Your assertion that "can shoot lights out from anywhere on the court" does not hold up to even a cursory fact check (unless 34.5% from beyond the arc is lights out). For example, he does not shoot as well the current stretch 4 on the Spurs roster. (Which isn't much of sin, since the incumbent shoots so well, but Bargnani REBOUNDS WORSE THAN MATT BONNER. There's simply no excuse for a player with his physical gifts to be the worst rebounding big in the NBA)

When his trade kicker is factored in, he will be owed almost 44M over the next 4 years.

AND beyond all that, you think it would be a good idea to trade Tony Parker to acquire this vastly overpaid underachiever.

Correct.
To put it in simpler words bargnano has all the defects of italians without any of the merits.
Toronto (third biggest italian city in the world) is the perfect place for this loser.

[pad300]

As Mel_13 alluded to, Bargnani means more to Colangelo than he should based on merit. They're not just going to hand him away. He's overpaid, but his contract isn't an albatross. Not when he's 26, 7-0, mobile and skilled. I'm not a fan, but with those physical tools, he's got value.


That means that he won't get traded. It takes 2 to tango, and maybe Colangelo overrates Barg, but that doesn't mean anyone else does. Nobodies giving up a near all-star (granger) or 2 mid first round picks (George and the #15) for Barg.

A cat for a hat or a hat for cat, but not a sack of shit for useful pieces...

[SenorSpur]

:lmao Comparing a potential all-star to Bonner.

:lmao Thinking that people think he's only better because he gets better numbers as a result of shooting more at a lower%. When in reality Bonner could never score anywhere close to 20ppg. The high percentage and points Bonner gets come as a result of his teammates. There just isn't going to be enough open looks. A team could easily hold Bonner to an average of 3 or less points if they wanted to guard Bonner and let the other Spurs go one on one. Meanwhile Bargnani does get guarded and still puts up over 20ppg.



:lmao Is he talking about the same Turkoglu that played 74 games, averaged 30.7 minutes and scored 11.3ppg on .409 shooting last year for Toronto?

Oh, I hope not because me pointing this out would be pretty embarrassing.:lmao

Whatever. I don't give a shit if this clown does score 20 ppg. An admittedly lazy defender and terrible rebounder in a 7'0 body? That's all you need to know. You're wasting your time trying to make a defense for this guy/

[portnoy1]

As for the Trade Proposal, RJ and scrap (Bonner,Blair+picks) wont work. If you go TP+Bonner for Bargnani then your Probably good to go. But if you try to throw RJ in there you'll be expected to take back a bad contract, namely Calderon's. He is not a bad player, just overpaid for what he does (Feed the bigs, run PnR's and hit open shots).

Besides Trying to get Bargnani without involving TP is dumb anyway. Any skilled player that comes to the Spurs has to alter there game for TP's sake. If by some chance Bargs, did get here he would then be a waste of money sitting around the 3pt line Waiting for Parker to penetrate. Thats a waste of talent and money (ala RJ).

If the Spurs were able to put up with/ sure up Bargnani's shortcomings then you could start to properly get the players needed (Wing Defender, Solid 7ft Shot-blocking Center, solid backup Pg). Without it being absolutely essential for them to be good shooters. The players the Spurs need are out there, they just have to change their offensive stlye to get them and players roles need to be redefined and boundaries set.

[cantthinkofanything]

As for the Trade Proposal, RJ and scrap...

LOL at a trade consisting of RJ and scraps. How bad are the scraps if RJ is the headliner.

[portnoy1]

LOL at a trade consisting of RJ and scraps. How bad are the scraps if RJ is the headliner.Blair?Bonner?a late pick? THOSE SCRAPS. RJ has value(not alot) he is just being misused on the Spurs, thats all. He could still put up 19pts on a bad team and maybe 14pts on a good team depending on the pecking order.

[cantthinkofanything]

Blair?Bonner?a late pick? THOSE SCRAPS. RJ has value(not alot) he is just being misused on the Spurs, thats all. He could still put up 19pts on a bad team and maybe 14pts on a good team depending on the pecking order.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Tbh, I didn't read your full post until just now.

But I would think "late pick and scraps" might be more compelling to another GM.

[portnoy1]

I'm not disagreeing with you. Tbh, I didn't read your full post until just now.

But I would think "late pick and scraps" might be more compelling to another GM.
Another GM? sure but not Colangelo (or however you spell his name)

[cantthinkofanything]

Another GM? sure but not Colangelo (or however you spell his name)

Ok. Thanks. It all makes sense now. Great posts.

[jag]

TJastal is unbearable.

[TJastal]

TJastal is unbearable.
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9165/unledato.png

[TD 21]

That means that he won't get traded. It takes 2 to tango, and maybe Colangelo overrates Barg, but that doesn't mean anyone else does. Nobodies giving up a near all-star (granger) or 2 mid first round picks (George and the #15) for Barg.

A cat for a hat or a hat for cat, but not a sack of shit for useful pieces...

Not necessarily. It just means he won't be traded unless it's for good value. You forgot to mention that I said Bargnani AND the fifth pick for Granger. They're both realistic trades. I wouldn't do either if I were the Pacers, though, because I'm not a Bargnani fan.

[8FOR!3]

I'm a big Bargnani fan and he's already better than anybody on our team not named Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, or Tony Parker. I'd be hesitant with Splitter, Anderson, and Hill, but would be willing to pack anybody else.

[objective]

fwiw, Gherardini's contract expires this June for the Raptors. He's the Italian brought in as an assistant GM when Bargnani was drafted iirc. If he's being let go, maybe that does signal a willingness from Colangelo to get rid or Bargnani.

Btw, there's no comparison between Bargnani and Bonner as scorers. Bonner could never do what Bargnani does scoring wise. It's a joke, Bonner can't score anything without lots of help and attention drawn by the big three. Bargnani can score on his own.

But unfortunately there is a comparison to be made between them for their rebounding. Hell, Bonner is historically a better rebounder than Bargnani, and Bonner has been one of the worst rebounding bigs around. For Bargnani to be worse than Bonner despite his size advantage . . . he must be beyond awful.

[8FOR!3]

Everybody thinks Bargnani is capable of being a solid rebounder, it's supposed to be a mental thing with him.