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RandomGuy
05-26-2011, 02:34 PM
This is another step towards closing a rather dark chapter in modern European history. It is about time.


By Aleksandar Vasovic Aleksandar Vasovic – Thu May 26, 11:38 am ET
BELGRADE (Reuters) – Bosnian Serb wartime general Ratko Mladic was arrested in Serbia Thursday after years on the run from international genocide charges, opening the way for the once-pariah state to approach the European mainstream.

Mladic, accused of orchestrating the massacre of 8,000 Muslim men and boys in the town of Srebrenica and a brutal 43-month siege of Sarajevo during Bosnia's 1992-5 war, was found in a farmhouse owned by a cousin, a police official said.

"Mladic was handcuffed and whisked away," said the official, who said he been cooperative during the arrest. The formerly burly and widely-feared general was not disguised but had false identity papers and looked haggard and much older, he said.

"Hardly anyone could recognize him."

A friend of the Mladic family said he had been put on a plane to the international war crimes tribunal in The Hague, but Serbia said he was still in its custody.

"On behalf of the Republic of Serbia I can announce the arrest of Ratko Mladic. The extradition process is under way," Serbian President Boris Tadic told reporters in Belgrade just hours before a visit by a top official of the European Union, which told Serbia it must arrest Mladic before it could join.

Tadic confirmed Mladic, 69, had been detained in Serbia, which had long said it could not find a man who is still seen as a hero by many Serbs and whose Bosnian Serb Army was armed and funded by the late Serbian president Slobodan Milosevic.

"This removes a heavy burden from Serbia and closes a page of our unfortunate history," Tadic said.

Shortly afterwards, European Union foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton arrived in Belgrade.

"It's of course a very important day for international justice and for the rule of law," she said, while EU Enlargement Commissioner Stefan Fuele echoed her words but said Serbia still had many reforms to carry out on the road to EU membership.

Mladic was arrested in the village of Lazarevo, near the northeastern town of Zrenjanin around 100 km (60 miles) from the capital Belgrade in the early hours, the police official said.

PSUEDONYM

Bosnian Muslim survivors said the news was bittersweet.

"I have been waiting for years for this criminal, who gave himself the right to take away my children and force me out of my town, to face justice," said Kada Sehomerovic, who lost her husband, son and two brothers when Bosnian Serbs under Mladic seized Srebrenica, designated at the time as a "U.N. safe area."

A Mladic family friend earlier told Reuters Mladic had been taken to the headquarters of the Serbian intelligence agency after an interior ministry official said police had arrested a man going by the name of Milorad Komadic on an anonymous tip.

The Mladic family friend said Mladic had left Serbia for The Hague by plane Thursday afternoon. "They sent him immediately," the friend, who did not want to be named, told Reuters. "It is a security risk to keep him in Belgrade."

But the International Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia in The Hague said the transfer would take place after the completion of judicial proceedings required by Serbian law.

Many nationalists in Serbia, which was under international sanctions over the war in Bosnia and then bombed by NATO to stop atrocities in Kosovo in 1999, idolize Mladic and one representative made clear their fury with the government.

"This shameful arrest of a Serb general is a blow to our national interests and the state," Boris Aleksic, a spokesman for the ultranationalist Serbian Radical Party said. "This is a regime of liars -- dirty, corrupt and treacherous."

Dozens of people were arrested and injured in 2008 throughout Serbia in riots following the arrest of Bosnian Serb wartime political leader Radovan Karadzic.

Tadic said he would not allow a repeat of such violence.

"This country will remain stable," he said. "Whoever tries to destabilize it will be prosecuted and punished."

Washington and other capitals hailed the arrest.

"The European prospects of Serbia are now brighter than ever," said Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt.

"Serbia is a country that has suffered a lot but the fact it has delivered presumed war criminals is very good news. It's one more step toward Serbia's integration one day into the European Union," French President Nicolas Sarkozy said at a Group of Eight summit in France.

Serbia's dinar currency rose more than one percent on the news, which Tadic said opened the way for reconciliation in the Balkans region, still recovering from the conflicts that tore apart old federal Yugoslavia in the 1990s.

NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said Mladic played a central role in some of the darkest episodes of Balkan and European history and called his arrest "an important step toward a Europe that is whole, free and at peace."

Although his arrest removed a diplomatic thorn from Belgrade's side, the revelation that Mladic was in Serbia, as many suspected, raises questions as to how he eluded justice for so long.

boutons_deux
05-26-2011, 03:02 PM
In 10 years, they will start a trial that lasts 10 years, and somewhere in there, probably no conviction, no punishment, before he dies.

Nbadan
05-26-2011, 06:05 PM
Mladic should have hired private contractors instead and then pro-actively exonerated them from prosecution....

clambake
05-26-2011, 06:15 PM
nice jab

TDMVPDPOY
05-26-2011, 06:17 PM
does it make a difference if its outsourced?

clambake
05-26-2011, 06:19 PM
ask bush

Nbadan
05-26-2011, 06:20 PM
Yes. Torture was out-sourced..

Capt Bringdown
05-28-2011, 09:25 PM
What's the point of arresting Mladic and putting him on trial? Why is that considered "bringing him to justice"? Why not just pump his skull full of bullets and dump his corpse into the ocean, and then proclaim that "justice has been done"? For those who have embraced the idea that we are "at war" with Al Qaeda, one could argue that that "war" is still ongoing while the Bosnian war has long been over, but, beyond legalisms, why is that a difference that matters? If "justice" demands that this heinous Serbian war criminal be arrested and tried before being punished, why was the same not true for bin Laden?

Questions about Ratko Mladic (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/05/27/mladic/index.html)

RandomGuy
06-01-2011, 08:52 AM
Looks like Serbia might actually try to make some minor amends for the nasty stuff that went on during the war.

Right-wing nationalists can suck it.

Winehole23
06-01-2011, 10:09 AM
Meanwhile, the corrupt narco-state created by the war on Yugoslavia continues to count its money and cleanse its countryside of unwanted ethnic undesirables. Bosnia, for its part, remains a crazy-quilt of ineffectual bureaucracies and is ruled by UN viceroys fifteen years after Dayton.

Liberal interventionists can (and in fact do) suck it too. It wasn't America's fight, but NATO needed a new mission and Europe didn't have the guts to fight, so it fell to us. At that point the demonization of the Serbs and Serbia became a foregone conclusion and a more or less permanent ideological justification for UN/NATO intrigues in the Balkans.

RandomGuy
06-01-2011, 01:13 PM
Meanwhile, the corrupt narco-state created by the war on Yugoslavia continues to count its money and cleanse its countryside of unwanted ethnic undesirables. Bosnia, for its part, remains a crazy-quilt of ineffectual bureaucracies and is ruled by UN viceroys fifteen years after Dayton.

Liberal interventionists can (and in fact do) suck it too. It wasn't America's fight, but NATO needed a new mission and Europe didn't have the guts to fight, so it fell to us. At that point the demonization of the Serbs and Serbia became a foregone conclusion and a more or less permanent ideological justification for UN/NATO intrigues in the Balkans.

Your rush to play the centrist card leads you to occasionally say some rather silly things on occasion.

If you can find a "liberal interventionist" who is directly responsible for mass graves occupied by bullet riddled corpses, by all means present that to the ICC.

Intervention can, and often does, play out far from perfectly. Granted.

But implying that such intervention is less than justified when the alternative is entire towns emptied of males under 80, is not really a position I think you can ethically justify.

Slomo
06-01-2011, 01:14 PM
- About time.
- Serbia behaving responsibly only when it becomes economically difficult to defend its policies.
- The demonstrators who wanted Mladic free didn't surprise me, nor did the silent approval of everybody else for these protests - but I still found it in very poor taste.
- Ditto a few weeks back in Zagreb and the Gotovina situation.
- The parallels and differences between the OBL killing and Mladic's arrest are fun philosophical/political/legal debates, but are in reality different solutions for different problems.
- Winehole is clueless.

Winehole23
06-01-2011, 03:04 PM
No doubt. Please educate us, if you have the time. You rarely post here, Slomo. Your contribution could be valuable.

Winehole23
06-01-2011, 03:09 PM
If you can find a "liberal interventionist" who is directly responsible for mass graves occupied by bullet riddled corpses, by all means present that to the ICC.Not claimed, i think...

(rereads)


But implying that such intervention is less than justified when the alternative is entire towns emptied of males under 80, is not really a position I think you can ethically justify.I agree. Did I just justify it, or was that just another flawed assumption on your part?

Slomo
06-01-2011, 03:53 PM
The Balkan conflict is way too complex to explain in here (which I'm not capable anyway). But having lived through parts of it and the rest from very close by I do get upset by some of the more glaring "adaptations" of the facts.

- The problem started as early as the 15th century. Some pretty bad political decision/concessions from Tito after WW2 laid down the foundations for the conflict. And I'm only scratching the surface of historical facts that eventually lead to the last war in ex-YU.

- You're assuming the war and the NATO intervention created the corrupt Serbian state, when they merely exposed it - what do you think caused the disintegration of YU?

- The intervention of NATO was a humanitarian effort after the failure of diplomacy. The crimes against humanity were well documented and known to all - NATO intervened only when the public opinion's pressure became too much - and frankly that was way too late.

- If somebody deserves to be criticized for the handling of the Bosnian conflict it's the US diplomacy immediately followed by the diplomacy of the other NATO members. Their completely wrong assessment of what was going on gave the Serbs the confidence to use force. The military once it was given orders to intervene (years later) actually did a very good job.

Don't get me wrong I am not assigning blame outside the YU states for what happened, but if we are debating why it wasn't prevented or stopped sooner then the finger is clearly pointed at the State dept. and possibly the intelligence community for misreading the situation.

If I had to pick a positive from the Bosnian war it would be that the US learned its lesson and recognized the signs and prevented the same type of genocide by the Serbs in Kosovo, which btw is the first and only genocide that was ever prevented by the use of force by the US or any other military.

As for the Serbs' image it is very troubling to me. I firmly believe in not condemning a whole nation into a single category/stereotype. But during the whole conflict I never heard a single Serb say anything that was not supportive of their actions in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo - not in public and not in private (and I do know many personally). While I started believing that things are changing I was very disappointed that nobody in Serbia told the pro Mladic supporters to shut the fuck up. It makes me doubt that anything changed in that country.

Even more disturbing is that the same type of behavior is now prevalent also in Croatia (reactions to Gotovina's conviction) the other big player in any Balkan conflict.

There are many good books on the conflict - many written by english/american writers - that are worth reading. They won't make you understand, but at least you'll get your facts straight (like Bosnia is not ruled by an UN viceroy - it's an EU viceroy).

Disclaimer: while I believe the above facts to be accurate they are not taking into concideration Russia's influence on the conflict and many other facts that only further complicate the issue. This is really only a very (over)simplified answer to your question.

Winehole23
06-01-2011, 04:14 PM
There are many good books on the conflict - many written by english/american writers - that are worth reading. They won't make you understand, but at least you'll get your facts straight (like Bosnia is not ruled by an UN viceroy - it's an EU viceroy).I appreciate the correction and your detailed reply. I don't presume to be a good judge of any of the matters it touches.

If you could recall any of the books you read, that would be very nice... :tu

Slomo
06-01-2011, 05:21 PM
Frankly I haven't read many books on the subject (having witnessed it personally) but more books about the stuff around it (ie why wasn't the whole thing prevented when it was still possible, the world's reaction, about the strange way that the Yugoslave federation was divided...) those things become interesting only after your familiar with the war itself.

While I consider the Serbs to be the main culprit for the use of force and certainly the crimes - I did find most book about the war to be very polarized. The Serbs are either monsters or victims of foreign imperialism (both ridiculous positions). If you are really interested in the Bosnian/Balkan war you need to read a few books and use your own logic/brains and you'll probably get to a point which will not enable you to fully understand the conflict, but at least help you see through most of the BS.

Of the books I read and that I liked (with the above caveat):

Yugoslavia, Death of a Nation - good introduction into what happened.
Yugoslavia: A History of its Demise
The Balkans: Nationalism, War & the Great Powers, 1804-1999 - Pretty good overview, not the first book to be read on the subject.
Balkan Babel
The culture of power in Serbia : nationalism and the destruction of alternatives - not directly about the war but very interesting and quite well researched.
Balkan Tragedy - good book, quite accurate IMO, can be difficult to read.
A Problem from Hell: America and the Age of Genocide - not just about the Balkans, but a sobering book on the subject of genocide.

I'm sure there are many more good ones I haven't read.

Winehole23
06-02-2011, 01:44 AM
Thanks for the titles. Much appreciated. :tu

ploto
06-02-2011, 06:11 PM
Kind of hard to claim no one knew where he was:


War-time Bosnian Serb army chief Ratko Mladic was treated for cancer two years ago while evading genocide charges, his lawyer said yesterday on the eve of the former general’s first appearance at a UN court.

“I have medical records showing that he was treated for lymphoma in 2009 in a Belgrade hospital,” Belgrade-based lawyer Milos Saljic who has previously said his client won’t live to see trial, told AFP

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=438565&version=1&template_id=39&parent_id=21