Scottie Pippen: "Lebron James Greatest Player Ever"

[Darth_Pelican]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/05/sacrilege-scotttie-pippin-says-lebron-james-may-be-better-than-michael-jordan/1



Sacrilege? Scottie Pippen says LeBron James may be better than Michael Jordan

10:45 AM
By Michael McCarthy (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/reporter/Michael+McCarthy), USA TODAY


http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/game-on/2011/05/27/Scottie%20Piippinx-inset-community.jpg (http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/game-on/2011/05/27/Scottie%20Piippinx-large.jpg) Scottie Pippin says Lebron James of Miami Heat may be better player already than his old Chicago Bulls teammate Michael Jordan.


Has Scottie Pippen lost his mind? Or is he spot-on saying that LeBron James of the Miami Heat is already a better player than Michael Jordan?

Pippen favorably compared James to his running mate on six Chicago Bulls championships teams during ESPN2's Mike and Mike in the Morning Friday.
"Michael Jordan is the greatest scorer to ever play the game. I may go so far as saying LeBron James may be the greatest player to ever play the game," said Pippen, surprising even co-hosts Mike Greenberg and Chris Broussard.
Pippen's comment immediately blew up on Twitter with Jordan fans screaming and James fans saying they agreed.
"Whoah. Scottie Pippen biting the hand that fed you," said one tweet.
What do you think? Sound off below.

[TampaDude]

Damn...that must be some monster good hydro Pippen is smoking... :lol

[yavozerb]

Agree with the scorer's title for Jordan, a little to early to anoint James the greatest all-around player yet but he definatly is in a league of his own currently with the way he can influence the game all over the court.

[cheguevara]

Commandante Guevara understands where Pippen is coming from. Lebron's physical prowess is superior to any other mortal. Now he is hitting the shots and his shooting ability increases tenfold in the clutch situations. NBA = Lebroned.

Still, rather early to call such statements given that the greatest ever got 6 straight championships. I still give the nod to MJ.

Lebron has proven all obstacles except one. Skillwise, clutchwise, consistency wise, leadership wise (something guys like Kobe never had). But now he has to prove he can be at this level for 6 seasons or longer.

[Wildcat67]

I agree. All around do everything, I can't see a weakness if he's hitting his jumpers. Passing, rebounding, defense, blocks, steals. He's the perfect player.

I mean the MVP of the league, known for his speed and quickness, and 5" shorter then Lebron, couldn't get past him, couldn't shoot over him, I mean he's just amazing.

Plus, don't forget that he's still getting better, we haven't even seen the finished product yet.

[dunkman]

Agree 100%. And Pippen said it well, "may be".

[Frenzy]

Some one post that video quote from the "bad teacher" movie :lol

[Darth_Pelican]

Yeah Scottie, I'm going to have to give the nod to MJ for now:


Michael Jordan's Career Achievements


Five MVP awards.

Ten All-NBA First Team designations.

Nine All-Defensive First Team honors.

Fourteen NBA All-Star Game appearances.

Three All-Star MVP.

Ten scoring titles.

Three steals titles.

Six NBA Finals MVP awards.

1988 NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award.

He holds the NBA record for highest career regular season scoring average with 30.12 points per game, as well as averaging a record 33.4 points per game in the playoffs.

In 1999, he was named the greatest North American athlete of the 20th century by ESPN.

[Cane]

Larry Bird said LeBron was going to be the greatest as well. But good luck with competing against MJ's achievements.

[HarlemHeat37]

I'll drop my thoughts on this after the Finals..

[Bill_Brasky]

LeBron James is just unreal right now. Hes definitely the best player in the playoffs.

:lmao people that said "LeBron cant close games" during the regular season.

[mavsfan1000]

What a fucking idiot this Pippen. James is not even in the same class as Jordan. Jordan is the GOAT. Anyone who says differently is an idiot.

[daspurs]

What a fucking idiot this Pippen. James is not even in the same class as Jordan. Jordan is the GOAT. Anyone who says differently is an idiot.

You bitter already bitch ? That your beloved bulls choked and your mavs are about to do the same ?

[cheguevara]

I'll drop my thoughts on this after the Finals..

Can't wait. I have bookmarked this thread. I have also forwarded this thread to 1000 of my closest friends and relatives. I have also put 4 different alarms on my mobile devices to remind me of this thread after game 4,5,6 or 7 of the finals.

In the meantime could you please post another pic of your mom's vagina? :lmao

[mavsfan1000]

You bitter already bitch ? That your beloved bulls choked and your mavs are about to do the same ?
No but James has a trio. Wade and Bosh are amazing players as well. None of them are at the level of Jordan. It is unbelievable that people still compare anyone to Jordan.

[TheManFromAcme]

it figures that Batman's Robin is saying the other Batmans's Robin may be the greatest.

It's just the battle of the Robins. :D

[dunkman]

Larry Bird said LeBron was going to be the greatest as well. But good luck with competing against MJ's achievements.

Well, Bird was comparable player to MJ . . . so he may know a thing or two.

[Nathan Explosion]

Anyone notice that Scottie NEVER said that Lebron IS the greatest, just that he MAY be the greatest. No false statement there. Lebron definitely has a chance to be the greatest. But he has to want to be the greatest to achieve it. Jordan wanted to win more than anyone he played with. Lebron hasn't shown that yet.

But we're definitely seeing something from him in this past series.

[badfish22]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/307392108.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1306516571&Signature=Cg6io3dqv5SJQyqGk2iAnR4p1JY%3D

[dunkman]

No but James has a trio. Wade and Bosh are amazing players as well. None of them are at the level of Jordan. It is unbelievable that people still compare anyone to Jordan.

MJ had good luck. Magic retired too soon, the talent around the league watered down due to expansions. For example the bad boys Pistons lost some key players due to the expansion.

He was highly marketable and the league accommodated the officiating and rules to make him more effective.

Not to say he wasn't the greatest scorer of the NBA or that he didn't play defense, he was absolutely great, but it's good to remember that Magic and Bird did many things way better than him.

[Nathan Explosion]

Not to say he wasn't the greatest scorer of the NBA or that he didn't play defense, he was absolutely great, but it's good to remember that Magic and Bird did many things way better than him.

But you said one thing that that separated Jordan from Bird and Magic, his defense. Jordan was a dominant defender. Him and Pippen were one of the most dominant defensive duos ever. Bird was known to make plays but he was never a lock down defender, and Magic was laughable on defense at times.

[jag]

"Michael Jordan is the greatest scorer to ever play the game."

http://iloveketchup.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/slap.gif

[Ace]

I'll admit I was wrong about LeBron but wouldn't go this far quite yet. We'll soon be witnesses...

[DMX7]

He won't be if they lose to the Mavericks. That's for sure.

[TheManFromAcme]

I'll admit I was wrong about LeBron but wouldn't go this far quite yet. We'll soon be witnesses...



..witnesses to what? your a heats fan for Gods sake...H-E-A-T-S fan...

[dbreiden83080]

Wilt is the greatest scorer and the best player IMO

Bron is not even top 10 yet..

[lefty]

Scottie is butthurt because he wasnt the man in Chicago

[Nathan Explosion]

Steven A Smith is having a stroke and heart attack on the air talking about this subject right now. :lol

[Ace]

..witnesses to what? your a heats fan for Gods sake...H-E-A-T-S fan...
LeBron finally leading the way. All season I said it had to be Wade because I didn't think LeBron could. Once the playoffs started I believed Wade had to be the closer because LeBron couldn't. I was wrong...

[dunkman]

But you said one thing that that separated Jordan from Bird and Magic, his defense. Jordan was a dominant defender. Him and Pippen were one of the most dominant defensive duos ever. Bird was known to make plays but he was never a lock down defender, and Magic was laughable on defense at times.

MJ did have some advantages over Bird and Magic, but that doesn't mean he was better player. And he wasn't bacause he comparatively lacked bball IQ, rebounding and assisting.

He wasn't clear cut better, it's questionable if he was the best of the three. They were contemporary players, MJ is 2 years younger than Magic and 4 years younger than Bird.

MJ figured out how to play to win after almost 10 years. Magic and Bird made their teams championship contenders as rookies.

[Spurtacus]

LeBron will never get to prove he can win it all without another superstar. Jordan won with a star player in Pippen and lots of good role players.

[jacobdrj]

MJ figured out how to play to win after almost 10 years. Magic and Bird made their teams championship contenders as rookies.

Interesting point. However, I could contend that Bird and Magic were the final pieces to some damn talented teams that put their respective teams in contention. MJ had almost nothing...

[dbreiden83080]

Steven A Smith is having a stroke and heart attack on the air talking about this subject right now. :lol

How does that guy get fired and rehired by ESPN so many times??

[ChrisRichards]

Pippen is somewhat right. Lebron is the better defender, rebounder and playmaker, Jordan is the better offensive threat by consistency. The thing is Jordan's gap in that category is not even that wide so if you take that into consideration and realize al the other things Lebron Does better in th court, Pippen's statement makes a bit more sense.

Jordan's biggest advantage over Lebron was the mental aspect of his game. There has been a lot of myths spread about Jordan's ability as a player and sometimes I just laugh at all the people who makes him into this flawless athlete but one part that was never exaggerated was his psychological approach to the game.

[lefty]

Olajuwon would give headaches to Wilt

[jacobdrj]

Olajuwon would give headaches to Wilt

Maybe. Never saw either of them play...

[lefty]

Maybe. Never saw either of them play...
:wow

[TheNextGen]

Lebron is better in almost every category, of course he is better then MJ.

[TheNextGen]

LeBron will never get to prove he can win it all without another superstar. Jordan won with a star player in Pippen and lots of good role players.

Pippen isnt a superstar?

[z0sa]

Olajuwon would give headaches to Wilt

I think the infamous series vs. DRob proved, with finality, that the best offense beats the best defense 1on1, and pretty handily. That's why it will always take the right players and a sustained team effort to be strong defensively, while any team can be incredibly potent offensively with a couple stars and ballsy role players.

[Warlord23]

LeBron has the right tools to maybe get there some day, but as of now this is a ridiculous conversation. One year removed from quitting against the Celtics, and losing in the EC playoffs with homecourt 2 years in a row, and he may already be GOAT? This is BRHornet level exaggeration.

But par for the course nowadays, given the Dirk comparisons with Bird and Duncan. It take lot more than a conference title or two to make a career.

[Spurtacus]

Pippen isnt a superstar?

Is he regarded as an all-time great player?

[TheNextGen]

Is he regarded as an all-time great player?

is he a top 50 player?

[z0sa]

LeBron has the right tools to maybe get there some day, but as of now this is a ridiculous conversation. One year removed from quitting against the Celtics, and losing in the EC playoffs with homecourt 2 years in a row, and he may already be GOAT? This is BRHornet level exaggeration.

But par for the course nowadays, given the Dirk comparisons with Bird and Duncan. It take lot more than a conference title or two to make a career.

Very well said, especially the bold. LeBron James might be the best player in the NBA for years but legacies need rings for validation. He's probably already a top 10 player ever if he continues his statistical dominance, regardless of future ring count, but his GOAT argument took a huge hit when he took less money and a lesser role for a chance at rings.

Unfortunately for LeBron, Wade is a Jordan-esque player at his best and is undoubtedly better than Pippin in terms of raw talent (at least IMHO). And, even more unfortunately for LeBron, Wade already has a ring as the clear cut top dog.

[dbreiden83080]

Pippen isnt a superstar?

Neither is Bosh..

Is Wade really that much better than a prime Pippen?

[Spurtacus]

is he a top 50 player?

If we're talking retired players only, then yes. But being in the top 50 doesn't qualify him as a superstar. He's not in the same league as MJ, Bird, Magic, Wilt, and so forth.

[ChrisRichards]

LeBron will never get to prove he can win it all without another superstar. Jordan won with a star player in Pippen and lots of good role players.

Jordan had 2 Hall of Famers, All Stars and a group of mentally tough players throughout his career.

[dunkman]

Interesting point. However, I could contend that Bird and Magic were the final pieces to some damn talented teams that put their respective teams in contention. MJ had almost nothing...

They weren't "final pieces", they were prominent in their teams at least as MJ for the Bulls.

The Lakers were stacked with talent, but Magic had to play center in the game 6 of the '80 finals. Kareem went down in game 5. He had something like 42 pts / 15 rbs / 7 assists / 3 stals game to clinch the finals MVP as rookie (btw, the only rookie to win the award).

Bird made a huge impact with the Celtics as well. They passed from 29W-53L to 61W-21L the season he joined the C's. Parish and McHale didn't yet play for the C's that season. Parish was good, but not great. McHale was a star in his own right but it took him some seasons to that level.

MJ when joined the Bulls and they missed some playoffs, and Pippen always told that the teams where he played never missed the playoffs. MJ played with good players too, he wasn't alone.

Simply it took him more time to learn how to play right and Phil Jax helped him in that a lot.

[Drachen]

LeBron James is just unreal right now. Hes definitely the best player in the playoffs.

:lmao people that said "LeBron cant close games" during the regular season.

why are you laughing? He couldn't.

[Spurtacus]

Jordan had 2 Hall of Famers, All Stars and a group of mentally tough players throughout his career.

Were those players HOF worthy and All-Stars before Jordan was on the Bulls? No, because Jordan came first and they were brought in around him.

LeBron had to join forces with Wade, a multiple All-Star and Finals MVP who was on track to a HOF career himself.

[Warlord23]

They weren't "final pieces", they were prominent in their teams at least as MJ for the Bulls.
MJ when joined the Bulls and they missed some playoffs, and Pippen always told that the teams where he played never missed the playoffs. MJ played with good players too, he wasn't alone.

Simply it took him more time to learn how to play right and Phil Jax helped him in that a lot.

The Bulls never missed the playoffs when Jordan suited up.

[dunkman]

The Bulls never missed the playoffs when Jordan suited up.

You are right, he had 3 first round exits in his first 3 seasons.

With him as rookie the Bulls passed from 27W-55L to 38W-44L. When he retired first time, the Bulls passed from 57W-25L (winning the championship) to 55W-27L (second round exit).

He can't compare favorably with the impact Bird had on the C's or Magic for the Lakers, so it's no wonder it took him much more time to win championships.

[Bill_Brasky]

Is he regarded as an all-time great player?

Yes. Pippen was an absolute stud, superstar, and top 50 player. Jordan is sitting with his dick in his ringless hand right now if Pippen is never on that team.

[TheKingOfMIA6]

I love it that he said it but I think its too early to say it

[Kai]

Pippen has never had Jordan's back. He's said that he was the better player before.

[ChrisRichards]

Were those players HOF worthy and All-Stars before Jordan was on the Bulls? No, because Jordan came first and they were brought in around him.

They're not HoF worthy nor All Stars before Jordan came there. They were still playing college ball when Jordan got there. However they were still All Stars even before Jordan left them. Testament to how good they were as individual players.

[lefty]

You are right, he had 3 first round exits in his first 3 seasons.

With him as rookie the Bulls passed from 27W-55L to 38W-44L. When he retired first time, the Bulls passed from 57W-25L (winning the championship) to 55W-27L (second round exit).

He can't compare favorably with the impact Bird had on the C's or Magic for the Lakers, so it's no wonder it took him much more time to win championships.
2nd round exit, but came extremely close to knocking off the same Knicks team they beat one year earlier, without homecourt

Would they have beaten the Pacers in the ECF? Hard to say, but they almost made it to the Conference Finals

[024]

first woj started to compare lebron to jordan, then the commentators calling what they saw out of lebron "jordanesque," now et tu pippen?

[Donkeybong]

NBA analysts are so funny. Watch LeBron have ONE bad game and they'll call him over-rated again.

[Muser]

Until he rings it's all moot.

[Wildcat67]

I just get a little annoyed that nobody is allowed to question MJ as the top player. It's considered taboo. I've never liked that sort of thing in sports. Joe Montana at QB for example.

Different players that play in different eras need to be compared, but it always seems one sided. It's always the past players that are remembered as better then they really were.

Don't even get me started on how INDIVIDUAL players are ranked based upon championships. When people say _____ won ___ championships, I throw up in my mouth a little. No, their team they were fortunate enough to be on won __ championships during their time with that team. Not the individual player.

In the future if Big Ben wins another Superbowl, he'll be talked about as one of the greatest QBs ever, and he just plain isn't. There are so many great players that, just cause of pure luck, never won multiple championships or even one. I don't like how those players are automatically out of all GOAT conversations.

[Muser]

You can question MJ as the GOAT, but if you're going to question it then your argument has to have substance. As it stands there is no way you could argue LBJ to be anywhere near the GOAT. Let his career finish then compare.

[jjktkk]

Until he rings it's all moot.

This.

[024]

i think it's a little hard to compare lebron with jordan since they have different play styles. lebron isn't attempting to imitate jordan like kobe, lebron is his own player. lebron can pretty much do everything, including making his teammates better. you can definitely call lebron jordan's peer and the greatest SF ever. they are on the same level in terms of greatness, the same way duncan is on the same level as the greatest PF ever.

[TheNextGen]

check the stats biitttchhhessss...simple as that

[Amaso]

Lebron might not even be a top 10 player when it's all said and done. Pippen said he may end up being the greatest player ever by the end of his career which can be said about a couple of players in every generation. To me, Lebron has to win at least 5 rings to even be put on the same pedestal as Jordan, and he is 5 rings short of that right now.

[Amaso]

I just get a little annoyed that nobody is allowed to question MJ as the top player. It's considered taboo. I've never liked that sort of thing in sports. Joe Montana at QB for example.

Different players that play in different eras need to be compared, but it always seems one sided. It's always the past players that are remembered as better then they really were.

Don't even get me started on how INDIVIDUAL players are ranked based upon championships. When people say _____ won ___ championships, I throw up in my mouth a little. No, their team they were fortunate enough to be on won __ championships during their time with that team. Not the individual player.

In the future if Big Ben wins another Superbowl, he'll be talked about as one of the greatest QBs ever, and he just plain isn't. There are so many great players that, just cause of pure luck, never won multiple championships or even one. I don't like how those players are automatically out of all GOAT conversations.

good post, its hard to compare players from different eras because of different circumstances

[Warlord23]

You are right, he had 3 first round exits in his first 3 seasons.

With him as rookie the Bulls passed from 27W-55L to 38W-44L. When he retired first time, the Bulls passed from 57W-25L (winning the championship) to 55W-27L (second round exit).

He can't compare favorably with the impact Bird had on the C's or Magic for the Lakers, so it's no wonder it took him much more time to win championships.

Those W-L records mean nothing without context. The year the Bulls won 38 games, the second best player on that team was a toss-up between Orlando Woolridge, Quintin Dailey and Dave Corzine. When MJ left they still had Pippen, Grant, Kukoc, Kerr, Armstrong, Longley etc. They would have made the playoffs, but would never win.

The thing about Magic was that on many nights he wasn't the best player on his team. Kareem was the most reliable and efficient scorer on that team, and Worthy was an excellent option on the wing. Heck, the Lakers bench had players like McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis, Wilkes and was probably better than the Bulls starters minus MJ in 1985.

Granted, Magic's Finals-clinching game in his rookie year is the greatest single game individual performance of all time. But throughout the 80s, he played on a team that was head and shoulders above anyone else. And he choked miserably in the 84 finals, which doesn't get talked about much.

Kareem > Magic in my book.

[Bill_Brasky]

Lebron might not even be a top 10 player when it's all said and done. Pippen said he may end up being the greatest player ever by the end of his career which can be said about a couple of players in every generation. To me, Lebron has to win at least 5 rings to even be put on the same pedestal as Jordan, and he is 5 rings short of that right now.

Jordan didn't win until his 7th year in the league. He was always regarded as great, but never able to get over the hump until Scottie came along. My how a couple of rings can change people's tune.

Bron will get his first this year, and he's not even as old as MJ was when he got his first.....so he has plenty of opportunity to get it done.

[JoeTait75]

He can't compare favorably with the impact Bird had on the C's or Magic for the Lakers, so it's no wonder it took him much more time to win championships.

Yeah, but it was still the Celtics and the Lakers. Boston won the title three years before he got there (albeit with a completely different team minus a healthy Dave Cowens) and L.A. had the best player in the league on the roster when Magic got there.

Chicago, on the other hand, never even won a conference title before Jordan. They hadn't had good teams since the early '70s and those teams were cannon fodder for Kareem's Bucks and Wilt's Lakers.

Jordan deserves credit for completely remaking a franchise that hadn't won anything before he got there- and hasn't won anything since he left.

[Technique]

MJ = most overrated player in the history of sports. LeBron does way more.

[LkrFan]

Pippen is more credible than most when it comes to this subject. That being said, I cannot agree with him - not yet. Last year in Cleveland, LBJ lead them in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. Has any player ever done that at such a high level? Ultimately he will be measured by rings. I'll have to put the proverbial "*" next to any ring he gets because he went to Wade's team to get it. :toast

As far as scoring, I believe Kobe is a better scorer than MJ was. I believe MJ had a higher hoops IQ than Kobe does (Kobe is so confident/cocky that he takes a ton of stupid shots that hurt his efficiency). To Kobe's credit, he did his scoring against more wing players that were just as athletic as he is or more (see Wince Carter and T-Mac before the injuries as 2 examples). Not taking away from MJ, but the only players that could even hang with him athletically back then were Drexler, Dumars, and maybe Reggie. All others were overmatched. Besides, 81 > 69. :)

[TheNextGen]

if pippen says Lebron is better, then he probably is.

[TheNextGen]

You are right...MJ couldnt even get 80. Greatest scorer my ass.

[Technique]

As far as scoring, I believe Kobe is a better scorer than MJ was.I believe MJ had a higher hoops IQ than Kobe does (Kobe is so confident/cocky that he takes a ton of stupid shots that hurt his efficiency).

You sorta kinda contradicted yourself there.

Kobe would be a good scorer if he took high percentage shots.

Greg Oden would be a good center if he didn't get injured.

Russell Westbrook would be a good point guard if he passed the ball.

[TheNextGen]

You sorta kinda contradicted yourself there.

Kobe would be a good scorer if he took high percentage shots.

Greg Oden would be a good center if he didn't get injured.

Russell Westbrook would be a good point guard if he passed the ball.

hes already that good with crazy shots, imagine when he NOT is taking fadeaway turnaround jumpshots.

[LkrFan]

You sorta kinda contradicted yourself there.

Kobe would be a good scorer if he took high percentage shots.

Greg Oden would be a good center if he didn't get injured.

Russell Westbrook would be a good point guard if he passed the ball.

Not really. What makes Kobe great is he is not afraid to take a pressure-packed shot. When he hits it (and does his "big-sack" dance :lol) it adds to his legend. However, a lot of times he would take a shot that he has no business taking and actually hit it - even with a triple team. That shit adds to his confidence/cockiness because he knows he can get off any shot he wants. Problem is, when that shot misses it makes the Lakers vulnerable because the other team fast breaks us to death (one detriment of having 2 seven footers). When he makes tough shots, it adds to his legend. But when he misses the trolls come out in full effect - led by none other than BSPN and Laker haters that post on ST. :lol

[Technique]

So when Kobe goes 6-24 in the final game of the season and the Lakers still win, does that add to his legend or to the fact he got carried his entire career.

[Cessation]

lol lakerfan thinking bean is a better scorer than jordan

[DAF86]

I know this doesn't have much to do with the GOAT argument but I was thinking: why did Lebron get so much shit for joining Wade when Jordan had Pippen, Magic had Kareem and Bird had a bunch of hall of famers playing at his side? Those players didn't have to change teams but still got arguably more help than what Lebron is getting right now.

[Proxy]

Every championship team has a sidekick. You could give Rodman tons of credit too, being a top 3 glass cleaner of all time. That shouldn't deteriorate MJ's worth. MJ's success has a lot to do with Pippen, sure. Pippen isn't top 50 without MJ though.

MJ is the greatest of all-time. No one has come close yet. LBJ has the potential, but I doubt he cracks the top 10 since he left Cleveland to join an already accomplished star that ranks among the same tier of talent.

[JoeTait75]

I know this doesn't have much to do with the GOAT argument but I was thinking: why did Lebron get so much shit for joining Wade when Jordan had Pippen, Magic had Kareem and Bird had a bunch of hall of famers playing at his side? Those players didn't have to change teams but still got arguably more help than what Lebron is getting right now.

It's about the "how" more than the "what", IMO.

[Amaso]

Every championship team has a sidekick. You could give Rodman tons of credit too, being a top 3 glass cleaner of all time. That shouldn't deteriorate MJ's worth. MJ's success has a lot to do with Pippen, sure. Pippen isn't top 50 without MJ though.

MJ is the greatest of all-time. No one has come close yet. LBJ has the potential, but I doubt he cracks the top 10 since he left Cleveland to join an already accomplished star that ranks among the same tier of talent.

Pippen isn't a top 50 player without MJ? Did you even watch basketball in the 90s?

[mystargtr34]

Scottie Pippen joined ESPN's "Mike & Mike in the Morning" on Friday and did what has been done a million times since LeBron James graced the cover of Sports Illustrated as "The Chosen One" back in 2002:

He compared LeBron to Michael.

But Pippen also did what has been done maybe only once: he said LeBron may be better.

Key word: may.

The exact quote:
Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play in the game, but I may go as far as to say that LeBron James may be the greatest player to ever play the game because he's so potent offensively that not only can he score at will, but he keeps everybody involved and you have to be on your P's and Q's on defense because no guy on the basketball court is not a threat to score when LeBron James is out there.


It's interesting to hear Jordan's longtime teammate say that the reason LeBron may be superior is that "he keeps everybody involved."

Is Pippen right?

Is Jordan a better scorer than LeBron? Probably. Is LeBron a better distributor? Probably. Does that make LeBron a better player than Jordan?

Now, that's where we need some help.

Let's put Pippen's assertion to the test.

If we're doing an honest evaluation, we need to grade LeBron and Jordan on the same age curve. Let's compare LeBron's statistical profile to Jordan's statistical profile through their age-26 season.


http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoopmiamiheat/post/_/id/8143/mj-vs-lebron-what-the-stats-say

Amazing how statistically dominant LeBron has been throughout his career... Jordan still matches him and has a 'considerably' better PER.. MJ was ridiculous. Obviously LeBron is pretty much the only wing player who comes close to Jordan's numbers and overall impact on a basketball game.

[Proxy]

Pippen isn't a top 50 player without MJ? Did you even watch basketball in the 90s?

I'm exaggerating to the same level that previous posters are when they say MJ doesn't get a ring without Pippen.

[Giuseppe]

I'm exaggerating to the same level that previous posters are when they say MJ doesn't get a ring without Pippen.

Empirical evidence withstanding.

[BanditHiro]

A pretty good take on it

lMHsqpTe7J4

[DMC]

Wait though, what about Harold Miner?

LOL Pip sucking LeCock, you broke da fuck Pip?

[joshdaboss]

So when Kobe goes 6-24 in the final game of the season and the Lakers still win, does that add to his legend or to the fact he got carried his entire career.

HAHAHAHAHa!!!!! FUCKING KILLED IT! THIS X1000000.

[joshdaboss]

People must have their heads up their asses. Scottie Pippen, in his prime, would lock a player like Kobe Bryant down completely and then score on him on the other end. Hell, he did that shit to Kobe when he was what? 40-years-old playing with Portland?

[redzero]

it figures that Batman's Robin is saying the other Batmans's Robin may be the greatest.

Pippen wasn't talking about Wade.

[Tuddy]

How can someone who can't shoot or post up be considered the best player ever?

[LkrFan]

So when Kobe goes 6-24 in the final game of the season and the Lakers still win, does that add to his legend or to the fact he got carried his entire career.

6-24 is just part of the story. What about the fact that he had to get his knee drained twice in the same playoffs - yet he still averaged 29.2 ppg? What about the fact in that same game he amassed 15 rebounds - which was more than KG? What about the defense he played on Ray Allen (who shot 3-14 in 45 minutes)?

6-24 gets the headlines but it doesn't tell the whole story. But then again it's too convenient for the haters to harp on 6-24. Let us proceed. :wakeup

[LkrFan]

lol lakerfan thinking bean is a better scorer than jordan

u-2Hd-Ly2CQ

[redzero]

u-2Hd-Ly2CQ

Kobe scored 42 in one half against a middle-aged Michael Jordan? :wow

[LkrFan]

Kobe scored 42 in one half against a middle-aged Michael Jordan? :wow

I see you're moving the goal post. :downspin: that shit hommie. :downspin: that shiiiiitttt!! :lol

Kobe sent the old shit bag to the tree of woe. He should have stayed retired. :lol

Kobe won back to back rings as a 1st option and no hall of fame teammates. Something MJ never did. Also: 81 > 69. :toast

[BanditHiro]

I see you're moving the goal post. :downspin: that shit hommie. :downspin: that shiiiiitttt!! :lol

Kobe sent the old shit bag to the tree of woe. He should have stayed retired. :lol

Kobe won back to back rings as a 1st option and no hall of fame teammates. Something MJ never did. Also: 81 > 69. :toast

lol when are you Laker Fans going to accept that Gasol was De Facto Alpha Dog in the two-peat...its okay the ring count is still

Kobe:5
Duncan:4

but this delusion that Bryant was primary reason they won has to stop.

[joshdaboss]

lol when are you Laker Fans going to accept that Gasol was De Facto Alpha Dog in the two-peat...its okay the ring count is still

Kobe:5
Duncan:4

but this delusion that Bryant was primary reason they won has to stop.

You're crazy, man. 6-24 = MVP. Stop being such a homer. The referees, Pau Gasol and the length of the Lakers had little to do with it.

[LkrFan]

lol when are you Laker Fans going to accept that Gasol was De Facto Alpha Dog in the two-peat...its okay the ring count is still

Kobe:5
Duncan:4

but this delusion that Bryant was primary reason they won has to stop.

Who was the De Facto Alpha Dog during the Spurs' last two-peat? :downspin:

[Nathan Explosion]

lol when are you Laker Fans going to accept that Gasol was De Facto Alpha Dog in the two-peat...its okay the ring count is still

Kobe:5
Duncan:4

but this delusion that Bryant was primary reason they won has to stop.

Kobe hasn't won a ring when his superstar big man isn't playing well. How many titles did Kobe win without Shaq or Pau? Hell, Kobe actually missed the playoffs in that span and got bounced in the first round. Pau comes and it's Finals time. Pau gets punked, Lakers lose to C's. Pau grows balls, Lakers win back to back. Pau loses balls, Lakers get swept.

In the past decade or years, only 3 teams that I can think of won titles without more than one superstar, the 2003 Spurs, 2004 Pistons and 2006 Heat. The Spurs had Duncan, an over the hill Robinson, not ready from prime time Parker and Gino and a head case in Stephen Jackson.

The Pistons won with 4 extremely good players (Billups and Sheed weren't superstars imo but damn close), and Wade carried an already over the hill Shaq and Zo to a title.

Going back a little further, you had the first Houston title team (pre-Drexler iirc) with 1 superstar. You don't win without superstars unless you have a special player (or in Detroit's case, 4 extremely good players). And in Detroit's case, Kobe shot 30 something percent from the field and averaged way more shots than Shaq who was shooting 60% from the field, so that's probably a big reason they won the title that year too.

[Nathan Explosion]

BTW, Jordan's winning percentage is off the charts in the regular season and even better in the post season. In fact, Jordan's winning percentage got better in the playoffs.

[redzero]

I see you're moving the goal post. :downspin: that shit hommie. :downspin: that shiiiiitttt!! :lol

How am I moving the goal post?


Kobe won back to back rings as a 1st option and no hall of fame teammates. Something MJ never did. Also: 81 > 69. :toast

Jordan: 30.1 ppg
Kobe: 25.3 ppg
Jordan: .497 fg%
Kobe: .454 fg%

Jordan > Kobe scoring wise. I could use TS% and eFG%, but I think you get the point.

[Nathan Explosion]

A little off topic but in the same thread as the "today" fixation, I've heard multiple times on TV and the radio that Dwight Howard is the best defensive big man since Russell.

Do I have to point out to these idiots that Hakeem and Robinson were better shot blockers, weak side help defenders, averaged more steals and were probably just as good rebounders as Howard?

Some people don't have perspective when it comes to basketball history. And that example was fairly recent, within the last 20 years.

[mavsfan1000]

Jordan>>>James
Wade>Pippen
Bosh>>Grant, Rodman, or whoever their 3rd best player was that year. Pippen is an idiot that just wants to make himself out to be more important than he was. He is no Wade.

[Amaso]

Jordan>>>James
Wade>Pippen
Bosh>>Grant, Rodman, or whoever their 3rd best player was that year. Pippen is an idiot that just wants to make himself out to be more important than he was. He is no Wade.

Jordan is not >>>> James as an individual player by any stretch of the imagination. I'd say they are very close to eachother. Jordan has a bigger legacy obvioulsy because he won 6 rings, but James has never played with as much talent that Jordan had around him until this year, and he's 4 games away from winning a championship because of it.

Wade and Pippen are probably relatively equal, different players obviously but overall impact is the same. Both are/were top 5 players in the league during their respective careers.

Bosh is not better than Rodman or Grant. Rodman was one of the best defenders/rebounders of all-time which Bosh is just a good offensive player and average rebounder who is benefiting from playing alongside two superstars. Grant was a great defensive player as well who could score the ball.

[ChrisRichards]

http://mit.zenfs.com/207/2011/05/33.jpg

[Agloco]

Looks like Scottie caught some seeds in his sticky-icky.

[dunkman]

Those W-L records mean nothing without context. The year the Bulls won 38 games, the second best player on that team was a toss-up between Orlando Woolridge, Quintin Dailey and Dave Corzine. When MJ left they still had Pippen, Grant, Kukoc, Kerr, Armstrong, Longley etc. They would have made the playoffs, but would never win.

The thing about Magic was that on many nights he wasn't the best player on his team. Kareem was the most reliable and efficient scorer on that team, and Worthy was an excellent option on the wing. Heck, the Lakers bench had players like McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis, Wilkes and was probably better than the Bulls starters minus MJ in 1985.

Granted, Magic's Finals-clinching game in his rookie year is the greatest single game individual performance of all time. But throughout the 80s, he played on a team that was head and shoulders above anyone else. And he choked miserably in the 84 finals, which doesn't get talked about much.

Kareem > Magic in my book.

What's wrong with Woolridge and Dailey? They were not durable players however they were good players during MJ's first seasons. They were probably as good as anyone Pippen had during 93-94. Corzine? Serviceable and they added Oakley. No team mate was going to score enough to make all-star teams with MJ's ballhogging early in his career.

The Bulls improved with the supposed GOAT, but not by that much. One could say, the GOAT never pass the ball and didn't yet have a jumper at that point. But then the GOAT in his prime retires after 3 championships. The Bulls get nothing for him, slip only 2 games in the standings, and still make the second round far from being swept they had some chances to advance to the ECF. The '80's Celtics and the showtime Lakers were nothing without Bird and Magic.

The Lakers were rebuiling in '90-91 and Magic led them all the way to the finals and still maged to take a game 1 in the finals and send the pivotal game 3 to OT. They were already without Kareem due to retirement, they lost Cooper who was their Bowen, they lost Riley who was considered the best NBA coach at the time. Kareem has been with the Lakers for some time and they failed to win championships before Magic arrived.

Magic went 9 times to the finals, he won 5 championships. They didn't won more because they faced various of the best ever teams (83 Sixers, 86 C's, 89 Pistons, 91 Bulls).

MJ had 6 championships, some will say that he never-ever lost, but it's unclear why is a player better if leads his team to get swept in first round or get eliminated before the finals and if he never faced a truly great team in the finals. When MJ's Bulls had to play with great teams the Bulls didn't even reach the finals.

[lefty]

Magic is the GOAT



TBH

[mavsfan1000]

The fact is Jordan will always be the greatest. Anyone comparing James to Jordan is blasphemy.

[JoeTait75]

What's wrong with Woolridge and Dailey? They were not durable players however they were good players during MJ's first seasons. They were probably as good as anyone Pippen had during 93-94.

Quentin Dailey (RIP) had drug and attitude problems and Orlando Woolridge was the classic good player on a bad team. Neither of those guys played a lick of defense and neither were winners. With those two as the best players on the Bulls they went 28-54 the year before Jordan got there.


Bosh>>Grant, Rodman, or whoever their 3rd best player was that year.

If I was Miami and could trade Bosh for prime, motivated Rodmonian straight-up I'd do it in about five seconds.

[lefty]

Magic went 9 times to the finals, he won 5 championships. They didn't won more because they faced various of the best ever teams (83 Sixers, 86 C's, 89 Pistons, 91 Bulls).

MJ had 6 championships, some will say that he never-ever lost, but it's unclear why is a player better if leads his team to get swept in first round or get eliminated before the finals and if he never faced a truly great team in the finals. When MJ's Bulls had to play with great teams the Bulls didn't even reach the finals.
But it's not like the Bulls were stacked either

Magic and Bird played great teams, but their respective teams were super stacked

[Spursfan092120]

LeBron James flattered by comparisons

MIAMI -- Scottie Pippen said LeBron James may be basketball's greatest player ever.

Among those who disagree: LeBron James.

The Miami Heat forward provided his reaction to Pippen's comparison between James and Michael Jordan on Saturday, essentially saying he was flattered by the sentiment but simply does not believe he's done enough to merit mention among the game's highest echelon.

"I'm not better than Jordan," James said.

Pippen -- who won six championships alongside Jordan in Chicago during the Bulls' epic run in the 1990s -- told ESPN Radio on Friday that while Jordan is "probably the greatest scorer to play the game," James "may be the greatest player to ever play the game."

Pippen even backed up the comments later on Twitter, hours after his words sparked a bit of a firestorm, though tried to clarify a bit by saying that while he thinks Jordan "is the greatest," James "could" reach that pinnacle in time.

James seemed mildly uncomfortable by the discussion.

"Michael's an unbelievable player," James said Saturday. "I've got a long way -- long way -- to be mentioned as far as one of the all-time greats. Not even just Jordan. There's a lot of great players who have played in this league. Larry Bird, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, all these guys who are floating around with multiple rings, Bill Russell, all these guys who have pioneered this game.

"I'm gracious. Humbled by Scottie's comments, especially with him being a teammate of his and seeing Michael on a day-to-day basis. But as far as me, I'm not going to sit here and say I'm better than Jordan. I'm not better than Jordan."

James is four wins away from his first NBA championship. The Heat host the Dallas Mavericks in Game 1 of the NBA finals on Tuesday night.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/news/story?id=6603651

[joshdaboss]

Jordan>>>James
Wade>Pippen
Bosh>>Grant, Rodman, or whoever their 3rd best player was that year. Pippen is an idiot that just wants to make himself out to be more important than he was. He is no Wade.

I lold. Hard.

[Sean Cagney]

LeBron James flattered by comparisons

MIAMI -- Scottie Pippen said LeBron James may be basketball's greatest player ever.

Among those who disagree: LeBron James.

The Miami Heat forward provided his reaction to Pippen's comparison between James and Michael Jordan on Saturday, essentially saying he was flattered by the sentiment but simply does not believe he's done enough to merit mention among the game's highest echelon.

"I'm not better than Jordan," James said.

Pippen -- who won six championships alongside Jordan in Chicago during the Bulls' epic run in the 1990s -- told ESPN Radio on Friday that while Jordan is "probably the greatest scorer to play the game," James "may be the greatest player to ever play the game."

Pippen even backed up the comments later on Twitter, hours after his words sparked a bit of a firestorm, though tried to clarify a bit by saying that while he thinks Jordan "is the greatest," James "could" reach that pinnacle in time.

James seemed mildly uncomfortable by the discussion.

"Michael's an unbelievable player," James said Saturday. "I've got a long way -- long way -- to be mentioned as far as one of the all-time greats. Not even just Jordan. There's a lot of great players who have played in this league. Larry Bird, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, all these guys who are floating around with multiple rings, Bill Russell, all these guys who have pioneered this game.

"I'm gracious. Humbled by Scottie's comments, especially with him being a teammate of his and seeing Michael on a day-to-day basis. But as far as me, I'm not going to sit here and say I'm better than Jordan. I'm not better than Jordan."

James is four wins away from his first NBA championship. The Heat host the Dallas Mavericks in Game 1 of the NBA finals on Tuesday night.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/news/story?id=6603651

Now thats whats up! James earns some points there.

[Oh, Gee!!]

wgaf? win some 'ships, then we'll talk. till then, all the arguments are simply mental masturbation. it's fuck or walk time for LBJ.

[florige]

Now thats whats up! James earns some points there.

He is trying to win points back.

[Sean Cagney]

He is trying to win points back.

MAYBE, but atleast he was not flattered by this and entertained it, he knows he is not close to the GOD of bball and will not be anytime soon.

[BanditHiro]

He is trying to win points back.

he always been like this...he has always diverted these kinds of comparisons. He has said MJ is GOAT and that Kobe was a better player than him when clearly Lebron was the best player in the league.

[DMC]

Someone needs to coin a new term, like "Van Gundy" when someone makes a silly claim about a current athlete being better than the greatest of all time.

Scottie just Van Gundied all over himself.

Something like that.

[ClippersDynasty]

Someone needs to coin a new term, like "Van Gundy" when someone makes a silly claim about a current athlete being better than the greatest of all time.

Scottie just Van Gundied all over himself.

Something like that.

OMG so clever and hilarious.

[TampaDude]

Someone needs to coin a new term, like "Van Gundy" when someone makes a silly claim about a current athlete being better than the greatest of all time.

Scottie just Van Gundied all over himself.

Something like that.

Scottie just Pippened all over himself. :lol

[Budkin]

Always in the shadow of Jordan and never going to be able to accept it. Well Scottie... how are those 6 rings MJ got for you?

[Giuseppe]

Well Scottie... how are those 6 rings MJ got for you?

& vice versa.

[BanditHiro]

& vice versa.

nope none of that....count is still

Duncan: 4 (alpha dog)

Kobe: 0 (alpha dog)

[Bill_Brasky]

& vice versa.


Beat me to it.

[Killakobe81]

He has a a chance at surpassing him as GOAT but he has to get close ...4 maybe 5 rings and he is in the convo for sure.

[IronMaxipad]

Kareem's open letter to Pippen


How Soon They Forget: An Open Letter to Scottie Pippen

Dear Scottie,

I have nothing but respect for you my friend as an athlete and knowledgeable basketball mind. But you are way off in your assessment of who is the greatest player of all time and the greatest scorer of all time. Your comments are off because of your limited perspective. You obviously never saw Wilt Chamberlain play who undoubtedly was the greatest scorer this game has ever known. When did MJ ever average 50.4 points per game plus 25.7 rebounds? (Wilt in the 1962 season when blocked shot statistics were not kept). We will never accurately know how many shots Wilt blocked. Oh, by the way in 1967 and 68, Wilt was a league leader in assists. Did MJ ever score 100 points in a game? How many times did MJ score more than 60 points in a game? MJ led the league in scoring in consecutive seasons for 10 years but he did this in an NBA that eventually expanded into 30 teams vs. when Wilt played and there were only 8 teams.

Every team had the opportunity to amass a solid nucleus. Only the cream of the basketball world got to play then. So MJ has to be appraised in perspective. His incredible athletic ability, charisma and leadership on the court helped to make basketball popular around the world -- no question about that. But in terms of greatness, MJ has to take a backseat to The Stilt.

In terms of winning, Michael excelled as both an emotional and scoring leader but Bill Russell’s Celtics won eight consecutive NBA Championships. Bill's rebounding average per game is over 22.5 lifetime, MJs best rebounding years was eight per game (1989). But we will never know exactly how many shots Bill Russell blocked because again, they never kept that statistic while he played. However, if you ask anybody that played against Russell, they will just roll their eyes and say he blocked all the shots he wanted to block in the crucial moments of a game.

Bill played on a total of 11 championship teams and as you very well know, Scottie, the ring is the thing, and everything else is just statistics. So I would advise you to do a little homework before crowning Michael or LeBron with the title of best ever. As dominant as he is, LeBron has yet to win a championship. I must say that it looks like Miami has finally put the team together that will change that circumstance. Its my hope that today’s players get a better perspective on exactly what has been done in this league in the days of yore.

Affectionately,
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar,
NBA’s All-Time Leading Scorer

http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2011/05/kareem-abdul-jabbar-questions-scottie-pippens-argument-that-lebron-james-may-be-the-greatest-player-.html

[mystargtr34]

:lol how can Kareem be so out of touch with reality ... Saying Wilt > Jordan because of statistics then Russell > Jordan because stats don't matter and rings are king.

Then proceeding to use raw stats from an era where teams had 20 or 30 more possessions per game than today to say Wilt > Jordan.

[pass1st]

The only opinion that matters is the one from good ol' Chuck.

[Darth_Pelican]

LOL Pippen

[shyne]

I remember watching that game when MJ has the fucken swine flu and was about to pass out on the court, and still dropped like 40 on the Jazz in Utah in the finals.

I can't even believe people would put him in the same breathe as MJ, thats fucken blasphemy.