Big Ben: Disgusted?

[milkyway21]

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/gamecenter/recap/NBA_20050609_DET@SA

CBS SportsLine.com wire reports
SAN ANTONIO -- As soon as Ben Wallace flung away his headband in disgust, Game 1 of the NBA Finals got away from the defending champion Detroit Pistons, too. :huh

Manu Ginobili started the game's decisive surge by bowling over Wallace early in the fourth quarter, a play that led to a blocking foul and a technical on Wallace that started the San Antonio Spurs on their way.

Ginobili's free throw on the technical began a 19-4 run that put San Antonio ahead by 16, and Ginobili added a dunk and a 3-pointer to stave off Detroit's subsequent rally as the Spurs defeated Detroit 84-69 Thursday night.

Ginobili had an awesome second half, especially in the fourth quarter when his drives into the lane produced several impressive baskets. Ginobili shot 9-for-10 in the second half and led all scorers with 26 points.

Tim Duncan added 24 points and 17 rebounds and Tony Parker scored 15 for the Spurs, who recovered from an early 13-point deficit to win the opener of the series -- only the third time in NBA history the past two champions have squared off in the finals.

AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service

players of the game:
PLAYERS OF THE GAME
San Antonio Detroit

T. Duncan
Pts Rebs Ast Blk
24 17 2 2

C.Billups
Pts Rebs Ast
25 4 6
...Ben doing a Chris Webb? :huh

[boutons]

Ben lost it.
Rasheed lost himself, what a pussy. He has amazing size and talent, but his head is fucked, what a waste.

[ducks]

pistons need to not let the refs effect them
did they not learn anything from the heat series

[milkyway21]

if Rasheed keeps contributing just 6 pts in 33 min, they're going to lose this series, guys. He was instrumental in game 7 for Detroit vs Miami. He had 20.

[E20]

Sheed was a monster on the defensive end. He had like 7 blocks or something like that! :wow

[milkyway21]

yah. but he needs to score. they need their big men to do it. or do the 3s. the problem is, only billups scores beyond the arc.

[nkdlunch]

Ben just gets T's to flex his muscles. Come on dude. this is year, it's for real. you cannot clown around this year.

[JamStone]

Rasheed definitely needs to get more touches. It's not that he only scored 6 points. It's that he only had 6 field goal attempts. A lot of that had to do with the San Antonio defense. But, the onus is also on Rip and Chauncey not giving Rasheed the ball enough. It will be up the coaching staff and the guards to make sure Rasheed gets involved and stays involved on the offensive end.

But, again, San Antonio had a lot to do with it. Both teams played very good defense. But, San Antonio was able to execute on offense in the fourth quarter. Good game by the Spurs.

[milkyway21]

Rasheed definitely needs to get more touches. It's not that he only scored 6 points. It's that he only had 6 field goal attempts:wow. Spurs defense.

[TMSKILZ]

Let's be honest though, that was an OFF foul on Manu, but were getting shafted early in the game by non calls, as Det seemed to be getting all the calls their way.

Manu is a stud! WOW!

[SouthernFried]

Ya, that prolly was an offensive foul on Manu. But, it's only one call...Ben needs to keep his head and play through bad calls. He was flopping way too much trying to get charges tonite. Bad calls happen, and they always will...you gotta learn to deal with them.

[milkyway21]

Ben needs to keep his head and play through bad calls...Ben though is a poor copycat of Rasheed.:D

i hope ESPN & Terry Porter are happy.

Because...

[/B]Alamo-mentum in San-AnTONY-oh is ON[B]

[PistonsNation]

Rasheed as any Pistons fan will attest to needs to stop settling for the perimeter and get on the blocks

[SequSpur]

Sweep.

[milkyway21]

Rasheed as any Pistons fan will attest to needs to stop settling for the perimeter and get on the blockswell, you outsmarted the Spurs in blocks tonight(Rasheed 7?), still it was a loss. duncan blocked a lot but still made 24 pts.

i recommend more perimeter shooting. But who am I? I am NOT coach Brown.just an ordinary fan:D

you can keep doing what you like doing, we can keep the "W", i tell u.:rolleyes

[milkyway21]

San Antonio began to pull away after Wallace was called for the technical foul for ripping off his headband and complaining. He had been called for a blocking foul when he thought it should have been a charge on Ginobili:huh.

"I thought that technical foul was definitely the turning point," Detroit's Richard Hamilton said.

"It was a tough call," Parker said. "He got mad after that, and he didn't stop penetrating, he kept attacking."
i agree, Rip.

BTW Rip, 7-21(33%)FG is not enough:cry

[T Park]

it was aclose play, its hard to believe Ginobili could knock down a guy like Wallace that hard.


BTW, hey Timmy D, you were great tonight, but, when Rashweed is on you, when you drive to the middle, STOP, and UPFAKE, he will go for it, a you will go to the line more, and will put him in foul trouble.

Same with Ben Wallace, same with Antonio McDeyss

[Ball Don't Lie]

Ya, that prolly was an offensive foul on Manu. But, it's only one call...Ben needs to keep his head and play through bad calls. He was flopping way too much trying to get charges tonite. Bad calls happen, and they always will...you gotta learn to deal with them.

It was the second completely BS foul called aginst Ben in the game. Keep in mind that he was called for an offensive foul when there was contact with a guy (Nazr I think?) standing a foot inside the semicircle. Dude was literally right under the basket - of course he was going to draw contact from someone driving the lane.

To me, that is much more disgraceful than the Manu charge/block call. With the semicircle, it is crystal clear what the correct call is. Screwing that call up is just as bad as if they gave a shooter credit for a 3 pointer when he is a foot inside the line.

[boutons]

"its hard to believe Ginobili could knock down a guy like Wallace that hard."

Ben's a top-heavy flopper! :)

[Ginofan]

It was the second completely BS foul called aginst Ben in the game. Keep in mind that he was called for an offensive foul when there was contact with a guy (Nazr I think?) standing a foot inside the semicircle. Dude was literally right under the basket - of course he was going to draw contact from someone driving the lane.

To me, that is much more disgraceful than the Manu charge/block call. With the semicircle, it is crystal clear what the correct call is. Screwing that call up is just as bad as if they gave a shooter credit for a 3 pointer when he is a foot inside the line.

Actually, they were saying something about that at the GTG. Something about Nazr not being the primary defender so the circle rule didn't apply to him...something like that.

[Useruser666]

It is possible to commit an offensive foul on a player inside the circle.

[HULKAROCK]

Sweep.

Wow. One game. The Spurs sweeping?? Actually, the Heat looked like more competition. The Heat looked stronger than the Spurs. I can assure you our boys are not worried and if you know anything about the Pistons, their resiliance is unbeliievable..

[WayDowntownBang]

Wow. One game. The Spurs sweeping?? Actually, the Heat looked like more competition. The Heat looked stronger than the Spurs. I can assure you our boys are not worried and if you know anything about the Pistons, their resiliance is unbeliievable..


Both of you are a big overdoing it here.

Sweep? Won't happen.

Heat looking like more competition than the Spurs?

You're crazy too.

These two teams are so evenly matched, it's amazing. This series is going to go a long way. Whichever team wins, deserves it. I was impressed with the Spurs, they threw us off our game. We'll bounce back in Game 2.

[Xolotl]

Let's be honest though, that was an OFF foul on Manu, but were getting shafted early in the game by non calls, as Det seemed to be getting all the calls their way.

Manu is a stud! WOW!

I haven't seen an angle yet to show that was a blocking foul on Big Ben. I was laughing last night when Hubie was like ok here is where the charge..........oh thats a bad camera angle we have there :lol

[fraga]

These teams ARE exremely evenly matched it scary...I think the first quarter...the Spurs were a little too tentative due to not playing for a week, and basically just trying to guage the Pistons, who they've only played twice this year.

As far as the foul calling...it was pretty even on both sides if you watched the game. In the first half, they were calling everything on the Spurs, while the Pistons didn't have one call called on them for a whole 7 minutes. I think it's the Spurs ability to not lose their cool when these bad calls are made, was and may just be the difference on who wins these games.

[SouthernFried]

The only reason that foul was a "turning point", is because DT let it be.

They completely lost it after that. We can (and prolly would have, if we lost..;) ) show several calls that went against the Spurs earlier in the game. It's how you handle those calls.

DT is a much better team than to let a call like that destroy them in a Finals matchup. After all, it was only a 1 point technical, and we were back to the same offensive set. To let that foul/play determine your turning point is just wrong man.

[JamStone]

Absolutely, it was a turning point BECAUSE Detroit allowed it to be. It's definitely not the only reason Detroit lost. San Antonio just outplayed Detroit in the fourth quarter.

However, if you look at that play in the bigger picture, you can understand what role it played in the game. If the "CHARGE" is called instead of the blocking foul, Manu gets his fourth foul earlier, perhaps goes to the bench, and when he returns, he might not play as aggressively as he did down the stretch. That's a big "IF" and "MAYBE" but it's still probable that that is what would have happened.

When Pistons fans say that call was the "turning point," it's not meant to say that it's not Detroit's own fault for letting it happened. It's not meant to be an excuse. It's just the instigating play that helped spur (no pun intended) Detroit's downfall.

San Antonio beat Detroit. Spurs were great in the fourth quarter. Manu was absolutely amazing. We Piston fans just know that that call was the beginning of Detroit's unravelling in the game.

[MadDog73]

Spurs win by 15, but only outscored the Pistons by 2 in Free Throws.

Yep, the Refs decided the game... :rolleyes

[duncan_21]

Rasheed definitely needs to get more touches. It's not that he only scored 6 points. It's that he only had 6 field goal attempts. A lot of that had to do with the San Antonio defense. But, the onus is also on Rip and Chauncey not giving Rasheed the ball enough. It will be up the coaching staff and the guards to make sure Rasheed gets involved and stays involved on the offensive end.

But, again, San Antonio had a lot to do with it. Both teams played very good defense. But, San Antonio was able to execute on offense in the fourth quarter. Good game by the Spurs.

What did he have 3 or 4 touches in the first 3 or 4 minutes? He was effective so I wonder why they didn't go into rasheed in the post more. If I'm lb I want rasheed shooting at least 15 times a night.

[5ToolMan]

It was the second completely BS foul called aginst Ben in the game. Keep in mind that he was called for an offensive foul when there was contact with a guy (Nazr I think?) standing a foot inside the semicircle. Dude was literally right under the basket - of course he was going to draw contact from someone driving the lane.

To me, that is much more disgraceful than the Manu charge/block call. With the semicircle, it is crystal clear what the correct call is. Screwing that call up is just as bad as if they gave a shooter credit for a 3 pointer when he is a foot inside the line.

While I agree, both were tough calls. But they were not by any measure the only tough calls or non-calls in the game. Wallace blew his cool, for which only he is the only one to blame.

On the call where Nazr was inside the circle, his position on the court does not matter. He was the help defender on that play, and being inside simicircle only applies to the primary defender. The only questions therefore are, was Nazr set, and did Ben lower his shoulder into him to create space. On both of those questions, the play is not in question. Charge on Wallace! Play Ball!

[td4mvp3]

just to return to wallace, even if he goes for 20, the pistons lose by 1.

[JamStone]

On the call where Nazr was inside the circle, his position on the court does not matter. He was the help defender on that play, and being inside simicircle only applies to the primary defender. The only questions therefore are, was Nazr set, and did Ben lower his shoulder into him to create space. On both of those questions, the play is not in question. Charge on Wallace! Play Ball!

That's an incorrect statement.

The semi-circle does not only apply to the primary defender. The majority of the time, it is a secondary or help defender that it applies to when an offensive player drives the lane.

Where the semi-circle does not matter is if it is not a "penetration / driving move" to the basket. For example, if Ben was making a post move, and lowered his shoulder into Nazr, even if Nazr was in the semi-circle, it could be called an offensive foul.

On this particular play, Ben Wallace was driving towards the basket on the baseline. The semi-circle was definitely applicable to that play, and Nazr was in the semi-circle where at the very least a non-call should have been made.


At the end of the day, it doesn't matter because the Spurs beat the Pistons by 15 and it wasn't that one play that made the difference in the game. But, let's not miscontstrue the rules of the game. That was not an offensive foul. It was a bad call.

[Supergirl]

It was the second completely BS foul called aginst Ben in the game. Keep in mind that he was called for an offensive foul when there was contact with a guy (Nazr I think?) standing a foot inside the semicircle. Dude was literally right under the basket - of course he was going to draw contact from someone driving the lane.

To me, that is much more disgraceful than the Manu charge/block call. With the semicircle, it is crystal clear what the correct call is. Screwing that call up is just as bad as if they gave a shooter credit for a 3 pointer when he is a foot inside the line.

But I also saw Ben getting away with a few shoves, and knocking TP down almost every time he drove to the basket, with no foul calls.

The difference between the Spurs and the Pistons last night is that when the calls were questionable and going against the SPurs, they played through it, and when the calls were questionable and going against the Pistons the Pistons started whining and stopped playing.

[grjr]

That's an incorrect statement.

The semi-circle does not only apply to the primary defender. The majority of the time, it is a secondary or help defender that it applies to when an offensive player drives the lane.

Where the semi-circle does not matter is if it is not a "penetration / driving move" to the basket. For example, if Ben was making a post move, and lowered his shoulder into Nazr, even if Nazr was in the semi-circle, it could be called an offensive foul.

On this particular play, Ben Wallace was driving towards the basket on the baseline. The semi-circle was definitely applicable to that play, and Nazr was in the semi-circle where at the very least a non-call should have been made.


At the end of the day, it doesn't matter because the Spurs beat the Pistons by 15 and it wasn't that one play that made the difference in the game. But, let's not miscontstrue the rules of the game. That was not an offensive foul. It was a bad call.

This is from the NBA rule book. The call was clearly correct.


An offensive foul should never be called if the contact is with a secondary defensive player who has established a defensive position within a designated "restricted area" near the basket for the purpose of drawing an offensive foul.

The "restricted area" for this purpose is the area bounded by an arc with a 4-foot radius measured from the middle of the basket.

EXCEPTION: Any player may be legally positioned within the "restricted area" if the offensive player receives the ball within the Lower Defensive Box.

[Rydia]

Both of you are a big overdoing it here.

Sweep? Won't happen.

Heat looking like more competition than the Spurs?

You're crazy too.

These two teams are so evenly matched, it's amazing. This series is going to go a long way. Whichever team wins, deserves it. I was impressed with the Spurs, they threw us off our game. We'll bounce back in Game 2.


I agree! With both teams havin a bit of class like this it's refreshing. It will definetly not be a sweep....they are the defending champs right! As I was impressed with the Pistons. :D

[milkyway21]

Let's be honest though, that was an OFF foul on Manu,


Ya, that prolly was an offensive foul on Manu. But, it's only one call

:rolleyes

i watched the replay of this game last night. and i think it was offensive foul on Manu on Ben, too! :rolleyes . i don't know but i think Manu extended his elbow(?), a little bit there...hmmnn.

[JamStone]

This is from the NBA rule book. The call was clearly correct.


Ben did not receive the ball in the lower defensive box. Ben was about two feet outside the paint when he received the ball and drove to the basket. Therefore, the "RULE" should have applied and NO offensive foul should have been called. Nazr was in the restricted area, a secondary defender, and Ben received the ball outside of the lower defensive box. I don't know why you would even post the rule when it doesn't help your case. Thanks for the rule. It proves that the call was wrong.

Hubie Brown even intimated that it was the wrong call.