These kids held back by bad teachers and unions?

[boutons_deux]

70% of Science Award Finalists Are Children of Immigrants

Of the 40 finalists, 28 had parents born in other countries: 16 from China, 10 from India, one from South Korea and one from Iran.

"In proportion to their presence in the U.S. population, one would expect only one child of an Indian (or Chinese) immigrant parent every two and a half years to be an Intel Science Search finalist, not 10 in a year," wrote the report's author, NFAP director Stuart Anderson.

Finalists interviewed for the report attributed their interest in research to their parents' attitudes.

"Our parents brought us up with love of science as a value," David Kenneth Tang-Quan, whose parents emigrated from China to California

==============

As always, the Repug attacks on teachers and their unions are totally dishonest, misdirected, clouding the real issues with the Repugs' distracting bullshit.

Somebody let us know when Repugs address the real problems facing USA.

[baseline bum]

Not at all a surprise to see so many Indian kids. Lots of Indian children spend their entire pre-adult lives in preparation for the JEE exam, which is like taking 4 GRE subject tests at age 17 or 18 (can't remember which year they're taken). I'd guess the majority of the parents of those 10 Indian winners are IIT grads (the JEE is the IIT entrance exam) who have their kids drilled the same way.

[Wild Cobra]

The American society as a whole doesn't understand the necessity of hard work and improving one self. Children from less advantaged countries have parents who instill better values of learning in their children, as they know it's a key to a better life. These people know that America is what you make of it. Too bad we have too many that blame their failures on others.

[DarrinS]

Kids from non Nanny-states kick our kids' asses? I'm shocked. I'm sure the teachers in India and china have great benefits and pension plans. Lol

[ElNono]

Like black surgeons who obviously can only make it that far due to affirmative action...

[DarrinS]

I'll say this about the Indians and Chinese-- smart as hell, but not the most creative folks I've ever run into.

[DarrinS]

Like black surgeons who obviously can only make it that far due to affirmative action...

Know what you call a med student that barely passed?


Doctor

[ElNono]

Know what you call a med student that barely passed?

Doctor

Okay... what does that have to do with black surgeons or affirmative action?

[ElNono]

Kids from non Nanny-states kick our kids' asses? I'm shocked. I'm sure the teachers in India and china have great benefits and pension plans. Lol

What are their benefits or pension plans?

[DarrinS]

Okay... what does that have to do with black surgeons or affirmative action?

Nothing. Btw, you should watch a movie called Bad Medicine, circa 1985. Alan Arkin is in it. Hilarious.

[ElNono]

Nothing. Btw, you should watch a movie called Bad Medicine, circa 1985. Alan Arkin is in it. Hilarious.

I heard the Bon Jovi hit...

[boutons_deux]

"Kids from non Nanny-states kick our kids' asses"

WTF? RIF

These kids' parents are immigrants.

The kids are US citizens educated in US schools, where they kick Euro-Americans' asses.

[DarrinS]

"Kids from non Nanny-states kick our kids' asses"

WTF? RIF

These kids' parents are immigrants.

The kids are US citizens educated in US schools, where they kick Euro-Americans' asses.

So, it has nothing to do with unions? Got it.

[boutons_deux]

no, students success has nothing to do with the Repugs' hated shitty public employee teachers and the Repugs' hated Democrat-contributing unions.

[johnsmith]

No one else sees a problem with the OP?

[TDMVPDPOY]

Kids from non Nanny-states kick our kids' asses? I'm shocked. I'm sure the teachers in India and china have great benefits and pension plans. Lol

they get paid shit all for salary, its where the private tuition after school hours is where the moneys at....

i got cousin learning how to be a teacher in vietnam, i heard that once you graduate you have to pay bribe money to a school to be posted in your city/town or you get posted in the shits of the country...salary is like 100 bucks a month :(, the bribe money is about US$1000-2000 :( thats like 1-2 years of hardwork....they only make money from tuition after school hours and can bring in $1000-$1500 a month (cash in hand)

yes asian familys who usually immigrate push their children to study hard, cause they dont want them to grow up and live a hard life like their parents, heck even some parents never went to school...then these parents will rely on the fruition of their children to take care of them when they get older...thats just how it is...

[Wild Cobra]

Like black surgeons who obviously can only make it that far due to affirmative action...
I'm sorry you believe that.

[ElNono]

I'm sorry you believe that.

I didn't say it, you did.

[Wild Cobra]

I didn't say it, you did.
I never said such a thing.

Are you intentionally lying because of your hatred of me, or is you English so bad you thought that's what I said?

I suggest you read what I said in context and stop the slander.

Maybe I should just expect this from the typical kool aid drinking liberal lemming you are.

[ElNono]

I never said such a thing.

Sure you did.

[Wild Cobra]

Sure you did.
Put your money where your mouth is.

Prove it.

I said Affirmative Action, specifically racial quota systems, harmed the black community in critical fields like surgery because people didn't know if they were a product of affirmative action, or if they really were good.

You have that backwards. I know blacks can make it in any field. I never said blacks couldn't make it without a quota system. It's those promoting what affirmative action has become that believe blacks can't make it without the quota system.

If you support Affirmative Action, you are a racist.

[ElNono]

I said Affirmative Action, specifically racial quota systems, harmed the black community in critical fields like surgery

Actually, that's nothing like what you said. I could go back and pull up the quote, but in a nutshell you made clear you wouldn't trust a black surgeon since he could be a product of affirmative action. Never mind the fact he need to have passed every exam much like everyone else.

Not surprised you're trying to change your tune post-facto though.


If you support Affirmative Action, you are a racist.

This coming from the guy that would shoot dark-colored guys on the border... you have a really twisted view of racism. As in you have no idea what you're talking about.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Put your money where your mouth is.

Prove it.

I said Affirmative Action, specifically racial quota systems, harmed the black community in critical fields like surgery because people didn't know if they were a product of affirmative action, or if they really were good.

You have that backwards. I know blacks can make it in any field. I never said blacks couldn't make it without a quota system. It's those promoting what affirmative action has become that believe blacks can't make it without the quota system.

If you support Affirmative Action, you are a racist.

It never crosses my mind when I encounter an educated black person that they are where they are because of affirmative action. Who thinks like that?

This brings us to a larger point. The only people who even contemplate this are conservatives. The same conservatives that tell us that affirmative action hurts minorities........because conservatives will assume that you are a doctor only because of affirmative action.. This only hurts minorities in the eyes of the right..

[TeyshaBlue]

No one else sees a problem with the OP?

Well, since the bot couldn't be bothered to link it, I have a hard time digging into it.

[TeyshaBlue]

It never crosses my mind when I encounter an educated black person that they are where they are because of affirmative action. Who thinks like that?

This brings us to a larger point. The only people who even contemplate this are conservatives. The same conservatives that tell us that affirmative action hurts minorities........because conservatives will assume that you are a doctor only because of affirmative action.. This only hurts minorities in the eyes of the right..

Conservatives do not think this way. NeoCons, on the other hand, do.

[Wild Cobra]

Actually, that's nothing like what you said. I could go back and pull up the quote, but in a nutshell you made clear you wouldn't trust a black surgeon since he could be a product of affirmative action.

Please do. It will prove to you that your hatred of me is skewing how you read my words.


Never mind the fact he need to have passed every exam much like everyone else.

True


Not surprised you're trying to change your tune post-facto though.

My tune is the same on this topic. I do change my ind on occasion, but my feelings are the same with this.


This coming from the guy that would shoot dark-colored guys on the border... you have a really twisted view of racism. As in you have no idea what you're talking about.

Shoot intruders to this country, like I wuld in my home. I don't care what color they are. Statistically, most on our south border are dark skinned. That coincidence, not prejudice.

How about releasing some of that unfounded bias of yours. In reality, I find most legal Latinos far better people than most whites here in America.


Like black surgeons who obviously can only make it that far due to affirmative action...
You see. You changed your tune.

Show me where I was the one that said they only made it because of affirmative action.

How do these two quotes the same:

wouldn't trust a black surgeon since he could be a product of affirmative action

can only make it that far due to affirmative action
Stop your intellectual lying please.

[Wild Cobra]

It never crosses my mind when I encounter an educated black person that they are where they are because of affirmative action. Who thinks like that?

This brings us to a larger point. The only people who even contemplate this are conservatives. The same conservatives that tell us that affirmative action hurts minorities........because conservatives will assume that you are a doctor only because of affirmative action.. This only hurts minorities in the eyes of the right..
Well, that accounts for nearly half the people.

Read the more recent attempts at special rights legislation. They want to legalize perception. If a gay "perceives" he is being biased against for his lifestyle, the left recognizes he may have a case.

Why not accept that perception is real in other ways?
Consider my earlier statement:

If you support Affirmative Action, you are a racist.
Why do people say what affirmative action has become today is right? It has become a system of quota's. To say that the black community needs a quota system to get ahead is to say they are not equal to whites, hence, a racists beliefs.

Seems to me standing for affirmative action is a politically correct way to be a racist.

I believe as MLK does. People should be judged by the character (and merit) rather than skin color. Quota systems squash the merit system.

[ElNono]

Please do. It will prove to you that your hatred of me is skewing how you read my words.

Ok. I'll bump it as soon as I find it.


Shoot intruders to this country, like I wuld in my home. I don't care what color they are. Statistically, most on our south border are dark skinned. That coincidence, not prejudice.

How would you know that they're intruders? 'statistically'?


How about releasing some of that unfounded bias of yours. In reality, I find most legal Latinos far better people than most whites here in America.

I wouldn't know. I don't categorize people by race.

[Blake]

How about releasing some of that unfounded bias of yours. In reality, I find most legal Latinos far better people than most whites here in America.


Rofl unfounded bias

[MannyIsGod]

Kids from non Nanny-states kick our kids' asses? I'm shocked. I'm sure the teachers in India and china have great benefits and pension plans. Lol

:lmao

LOL indeed. These kids were taught by American teachers you stupid fuck.

[MannyIsGod]

Does anyone else own themselves on a regular basis the way Darrin does?

[MannyIsGod]

As for the OP, its pretty obvious immigrant families have different structures and expectations for their children. They set the bar higher, for one.

[DarrinS]

:lmao

LOL indeed. These kids were taught by American teachers you stupid fuck.

I realize that you stupid fuck.

[DarrinS]

As for the OP, its pretty obvious immigrant families have different structures and expectations for their children. They set the bar higher, for one.


It's not all immigrant families, but I'm sure you read the OP very carefully.

[DarrinS]

Does anyone have less warranted superiority complex than Manny?

[MannyIsGod]

I realize that you stupid fuck.

:lmao

Now you do.

So when are you moving your children to China or India for those quality educations?

[MannyIsGod]

Does anyone have less warranted superiority complex than Manny?

I'm pretty sure that you on an almost daily basis reinforce my understanding of just how superior to you I am. :tu

[MannyIsGod]

It's not all immigrant families, but I'm sure you read the OP very carefully.

Where did I state it was? The OP is about immigrant families showing disproportionate success. You tried to spin that as if they were getting educated elsewhere because you're a complete fucking idiot.

Darrin, I could make a list each morning of how you were going to prove how idiotic you were that day and it could never be as good as the shit you actually do. Bravo.

[DarrinS]

I'm pretty sure that you on an almost daily basis reinforce my understanding of just how superior to you I am. :tu



Do you hate these? --> ,

[DarrinS]

Where did I state it was? The OP is about immigrant families showing disproportionate success. You tried to spin that as if they were getting educated elsewhere because you're a complete fucking idiot.

Darrin, I could make a list each morning of how you were going to prove how idiotic you were that day and it could never be as good as the shit you actually do. Bravo.


The thread is logically flawed to begin with. Teachers unions have zero to do with their [immigrant kids'] success. That's what I was trying to point out, but you were too busy seeing trees. You and ChumpyDump share that problem.

[MannyIsGod]

I am to grammar as you are to logic. I can live with that.

[DarrinS]

Where did I state it was? The OP is about immigrant families showing disproportionate success. You tried to spin that as if they were getting educated elsewhere because you're a complete fucking idiot.

Darrin, I could make a list each morning of how you were going to prove how idiotic you were that day and it could never be as good as the shit you actually do. Bravo.



We all humbly bow to your vast intellect and worldly experience.

[MannyIsGod]

The thread is logically flawed to begin with. Teachers unions have zero to do with their [immigrant kids'] success. That's what I was trying to point out, but you were too busy seeing trees. You and ChumpyDump share that problem.

:lmao

You're so full of shit. You brought up the benefits of teachers in India and China because you thought those teachers taught these kids in a superior way and you were doing the exact same thing Butouns did. The exception was that for you to do it something that never happened need to take place.

For you to try to pull this bullshit now would require the rest of the people reading to have as small an understanding of logic as you. Don't count on that.

[MannyIsGod]

We all humbly bow to your vast intellect and worldly experience.

Oh not all. I said you Darrin. The singular. You. There are a lot of people here far smarter than me. You're not one of them.

[DarrinS]

:lmao

You're so full of shit. You brought up the benefits of teachers in India and China because you thought those teachers taught these kids in a superior way and you were doing the exact same thing Butouns did. The exception was that for you to do it something that never happened need to take place.



I see trees.

[MannyIsGod]

Kids from non Nanny-states kick our kids' asses? I'm shocked. I'm sure the teachers in India and china have great benefits and pension plans. Lol

Darrin's trees.

[DarrinS]

Oh not all. I said you Darrin. The singular. You. There are a lot of people here far smarter than me. You're not one of them.


Well it does take considerable brain power to get a degree in meteorology.

[DarrinS]

Darrin's trees.



So, it has nothing to do with unions? Got it.

[MannyIsGod]

I never said that butons point was valid. Thats his argument not mine. I just like it how you're so quick to respond that you can't even bother to read the OP and end up posting something that everyone expects from you.

But yeah, trees!!!!!!

:lol Darrin, the self owning alpha male.

[DarrinS]

I never said that butons point was valid. Thats his argument not mine. I just like it how you're so quick to respond that you can't even bother to read the OP and end up posting something that everyone expects from you.

But yeah, trees!!!!!!

:lol Darrin, the self owning alpha male.

:sleep

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.performancesolutionstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/tree2.jpg

Arbor conscious alpha male

[TeyshaBlue]

:lmao

[LnGrrrR]

Read the more recent attempts at special rights legislation. They want to legalize perception. If a gay "perceives" he is being biased against for his lifestyle, the left recognizes he may have a case.

Other examples of bad law:


They want to legalize perception. If a woman "perceives" she is being biased against for her clothing, the left recognizes she may have a case.



Why do people say what affirmative action has become today is right? It has become a system of quota's. To say that the black community needs a quota system to get ahead is to say they are not equal to whites, hence, a racists beliefs.

Or it could be recognizing the fact that many businesses are owned by whites, who own a disproportionate amount of wealth due to this. Also, while it may be libertarian to suggest that it's less efficient for businesses to be racist, and eventually, non-racist companies will lead the way, in the meantime, the minorities might not be getting jobs.


Seems to me standing for affirmative action is a politically correct way to be a racist.

It's hard to see otherwise when you have such a narrow view. I could use the same logic to say that people who support torture only do so because they feel weak and inferior, and want to inflict suffering on others due to said inferiority.


I believe as MLK does. People should be judged by the character (and merit) rather than skin color. Quota systems squash the merit system.

And yet, they often aren't. Tell me, did MLK specifically bash any sort of quota-based system?

[Wild Cobra]

As for the OP, its pretty obvious immigrant families have different structures and expectations for their children. They set the bar higher, for one.
I will agree. Again, they know they have a better chance here than in their native countries, while president Obama is apologizing to other nations about how bad we are.

[Wild Cobra]

OK LnGrrrR. I understand. Two wrong make a right in your book.

[ElNono]

OK LnGrrrR. I understand. Two wrong make a right in your book.

If that's what you get out of that, you didn't understand a thing.

[DarrinS]

Somehow, "The Man" wasn't able to keep these swarthy, immigrant kids down.

Maybe, just maybe, success is achieved by hard work of the individual. What a concept.

[LnGrrrR]

OK LnGrrrR. I understand. Two wrong make a right in your book.

In a sense, yes, though I don't see affirmative action necessarily as a "wrong". If everything truly were equal, of course it'd be wrong. But they're not. How else do you explain the disproportionate numbers of wealthy whites vs wealthy minorities? Culture?

Your idea of fairness is like spotting someone 50 yards in a 100 yrd dash, and then demanding both sides start at the same time, and wondering why the person without the headstart is complaining since both can run equally fast.

[LnGrrrR]

Note: Individually, white person A may have the same advantages as minority person B. But overall, access to wealth is far greater in the majority (ie. white), and wealth is usually a factor in education, which is a factor in future wealth.

[LnGrrrR]

Somehow, "The Man" wasn't able to keep these swarthy, immigrant kids down.

Maybe, just maybe, success is achieved by hard work of the individual. What a concept.

Do you make scarecrows for a living DarrinS?

Maybe, just maybe, no one ever said hard work doesn't help. Maybe, just maybe though, hard work might not be enough.

[DarrinS]

Do you make scarecrows for a living DarrinS?

Maybe, just maybe, no one ever said hard work doesn't help. Maybe, just maybe though, hard work might not be enough.


It appears to be enough for Indian and Chinese immigrants. Do you think the same formula might work for others?

[Wild Cobra]

If that's what you get out of that, you didn't understand a thing.
It's either that, or you think blacks cannot stand on their own.

I get the prejudice argument, but that's outdated except for a small percentage of employers. Why are you in favor of harming the majority because of the minority?

Employers want to hire the best they can find. they are profit motivated. If you think racism trumps profit with more than just a small percentage of employers, then I suggest you stop being so biased and ignorant. Search out some truth.

[ElNono]

Somehow, "The Man" wasn't able to keep these swarthy, immigrant kids down.

Maybe, just maybe, success is achieved by hard work of the individual. What a concept.

Somehow, "The Scary Union Teachers" weren't able to keep these swarthy, immigrant kids down either.

[ElNono]

It's either that

It's definitely that.

[LnGrrrR]

It appears to be enough for Indian and Chinese immigrants. Do you think the same formula might work for others?

Sure, I would say a strong work ethic is a great starting point. I don't think that's necessarily the stopping point. You need some luck, some resources, etc etc.

[LnGrrrR]

I get the prejudice argument, but that's outdated except for a small percentage of employers. Why are you in favor of harming the majority because of the minority?

Employers want to hire the best they can find. they are profit motivated. If you think racism trumps profit with more than just a small percentage of employers, then I suggest you stop being so biased and ignorant. Search out some truth.

Where's your proof that said thinking is outdated? Do you think racism/bias no longer exists?

I agree that racism is much less prevalent. However, wealth built up from times when it WAS prevalent is still around.

[Wild Cobra]

In a sense, yes, though I don't see affirmative action necessarily as a "wrong". If everything truly were equal, of course it'd be wrong. But they're not. How else do you explain the disproportionate numbers of wealthy whites vs wealthy minorities? Culture?

Culture is a large part of it. When someone growing up is constantly told by their parents that all the problems in their life are becasue of "white people," then what dream do they have? Black parents are so often teaching their children that they don't have a chance in life because of their shin color. These kids have no reason to accel, and it's because of their parents. Not beacuse of whites.


Your idea of fairness is like spotting someone 50 yards in a 100 yrd dash, and then demanding both sides start at the same time, and wondering why the person without the headstart is complaining since both can run equally fast.

Bad example. I would say that white and black kids both have the same chances if they both take education with the same level of seriousness. Now I will agree that black kids often because of the communities they live in are less educated. Again, that is a problem of their community culture, different types of peer pressure, etc. The hard facts are that nobody should be given preferential treatment. Again, in doing so, you are making the statement that they are not as good as others, and need to be spotted that 50 yards.

It is you that wants to spot someone. Not me.

[Wild Cobra]

Note: Individually, white person A may have the same advantages as minority person B. But overall, access to wealth is far greater in the majority (ie. white), and wealth is usually a factor in education, which is a factor in future wealth.
Even with Pell grants?

Come on. Is that the best you have?

[ElNono]

The kid is obviously guilty that he was born on certain community. His poor parents should have simply moved to a different community with better education standards.

[Wild Cobra]

Where's your proof that said thinking is outdated? Do you think racism/bias no longer exists?

I agree that racism is much less prevalent. However, wealth built up from times when it WAS prevalent is still around.
I would say that racism is perceived far more than real. Prejudice is greater, and employers use prejudice to select all new hires. Vocabulary, previous employment, etc. The hard facts are if someone talks like they are from the hood, they aren't likely to get a very good job. Is it the white mans fault they speak Ebonics, or their culture?

[Wild Cobra]

The kid is obviously guilty that he was born on certain community. His poor parents should have simply moved to a different community with better education standards.
His parents should have instilled better values and goals.

[ElNono]

His parents should have instilled better values and goals.

But you're telling us that it's the community they live in that's the culprit. Pick a lane.

[Wild Cobra]

But you're telling us that it's the community they live in that's the culprit. Pick a lane.
Statistically, blacks are disadvantaged. Maybe if they would stop blaming "the man" they could do some self reflection, and improve their communities rom within.

[LnGrrrR]

Black parents are so often teaching their children that they don't have a chance in life because of their shin color.

Could you prove that statement?


Bad example. I would say that white and black kids both have the same chances if they both take education with the same level of seriousness. Now I will agree that black kids often because of the communities they live in are less educated. Again, that is a problem of their community culture, different types of peer pressure, etc.

Really? You don't think that WHERE a black person lives might not be due to wealth? Chris Rock has a great skit that you should listen to regarding where black people live:

53hXBg-U-ac


The hard facts are that nobody should be given preferential treatment. Again, in doing so, you are making the statement that they are not as good as others, and need to be spotted that 50 yards.

You missed my point entirely. Whites with wealth have, in many cases, already been spotted the 50 yards. Overall, whites have a disporportionate amount of wealth related to overall popuation. Of course if you compare individual runners, then you can have similar situations.


It is you that wants to spot someone. Not me.

I don't necessarily "want" to spot someone, I just recognize the validity of it.

Would you agree or disagree that wealth can be an important factor in "getting ahead"?

Would you agree or disagree that wealth is disproportionately found in the majority (white) as opposed to minorities?

Would you agree or disagree that wealth possessed by the majority may have been collected through unfair practices against minorities?

[ElNono]

Statistically, blacks are disadvantaged. Maybe if they would stop blaming "the man" they could do some self reflection, and improve their communities rom within.

So, everybody that lives in such communities blame "the man"... and kids born in such communities are obviously guilty of being born there.

Also, if you agree that statistically black are disadvantaged, then you agree that the non-blacks have an inherent advantage.

[ElNono]

Racial prejudice makes you stupider, new research finds / Encounters with another race made whites perform worse on cognitive test (http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-11-17/news/17519499_1_racial-bias-experimenter-brain)

November 17, 2003|By Gareth Cook, Boston Globe

To the litany of arguments against prejudice, scientists are now adding a new one: Racism can make you stupid.

That is the message of an unusual and striking new series of experiments conducted at Dartmouth College, with the help of brain-imaging equipment and a crew of undergraduate volunteers.

According to the findings, the more biased people are, the more their brain power is taxed by contact with someone of another race, as they struggle not to say or do anything offensive. The effect is so strong, the team found, that even a five-minute conversation with a black person left some of the white subjects unable to perform well on a test of cognitive ability.

[Complete text at the link above]

[ElNono]

That explains it, imo... :lol

[LnGrrrR]

Even with Pell grants?

Huh? Obviously when you look at it on an "individual" basis, it's unfair. It's only "fair" when extrapolated outwards to groups of people as a whole.

[LnGrrrR]

Statistically, blacks are disadvantaged. Maybe if they would stop blaming "the man" they could do some self reflection, and improve their communities rom within.

Maybe not every poor black person blames "the man".

[Wild Cobra]

Could you prove that statement?



Really? You don't think that WHERE a black person lives might not be due to wealth? Chris Rock has a great skit that you should listen to regarding where black people live:

53hXBg-U-ac



You missed my point entirely. Whites with wealth have, in many cases, already been spotted the 50 yards. Overall, whites have a disporportionate amount of wealth related to overall popuation. Of course if you compare individual runners, then you can have similar situations.



I don't necessarily "want" to spot someone, I just recognize the validity of it.

Would you agree or disagree that wealth can be an important factor in "getting ahead"?

Would you agree or disagree that wealth is disproportionately found in the majority (white) as opposed to minorities?

Would you agree or disagree that wealth possessed by the majority may have been collected through unfair practices against minorities?

Yes, wealth is a factor. Are you purposely ignoring my statements? I am not attempting to cover all possibilities. Quota systems are simply wrong. They improperly prejudice against others to put less qualified in their place.

Life is hard. It's not the responsibility of us all to step aside for the less advantages just to be PC.

[Wild Cobra]

So, everybody that lives in such communities blame "the man"... and kids born in such communities are obviously guilty of being born there.
Only statistically.

Also, if you agree that statistically black are disadvantaged, then you agree that the non-blacks have an inherent advantage.
Yes.

[ElNono]

lol admitting that the minorities are at a disadvantage but that providing equal opportunity is racist...
lol reverse racism...
lol step aside...

[Wild Cobra]

Maybe not every poor black person blames "the man".
True, and if they are in a bad school system, it's still hard for them to compete. That doesn't make it right to put them ahead of others more qualified though, which a quota system does.

[ElNono]

Only statistically.

They're statistically guilty of being born on certain communities? :lol


Yes.

So, if it's not the capability of the individual that's the problem, it seems only logical to provide equal opportunity regardless of the color of the skin...

[LnGrrrR]

Yes, wealth is a factor. Are you purposely ignoring my statements? I am not attempting to cover all possibilities. Quota systems are simply wrong. They improperly prejudice against others to put less qualified in their place.

Yes, in a vacuum, they are wrong. However, isn't it just as wrong to enslave a group of people for hundreds of years, accumulate wealth unfairly, and then try to wash your hands of any burdens a few generations later?

Neither answer is "correct".


Life is hard. It's not the responsibility of us all to step aside for the less advantages just to be PC.

It's not about being PC at all. And how come you didn't answer my questions? Tsk tsk.

I don't think it's fair to complain about me ignoring your statements when you willfully don't even answer agree or disagree to rather plain questions.

[LnGrrrR]

So, if it's not the capability of the individual that's the problem, it seems only logical to provide equal opportunity regardless of the color of the skin...

Which brings up an interesting question:

WC, would you be against an affirmative action-type of system that was based off wealth/poverty levels rather than race?

What about if said wealth-based quota system hypothetically produced the same levels of racial diversity that a race-based quota system would?

[ElNono]

would you be against an affirmative action-type of system that was based off wealth/poverty levels rather than race?

Class warfare!!!!!! Why can't we just go back to 1826 when everything was peachy?

[MannyIsGod]

lol admitting that the minorities are at a disadvantage but that providing equal opportunity is racist...
lol reverse racism...
lol step aside...