Food rotting on the ground in GA: be careful what you wish for...

[ChuckD]

yeah, who (outside of the GOP and their bootlickers) didn't see this coming... (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-31/us/georgia.migrant.labor_1_check-immigration-status-vegetable-growers-association-migrant-workers?_s=PM:US)

[ChumpDumper]

Surely those jobs pay well enough to attract thousands of real Americans.

[MannyIsGod]

I could have told you that would have happened. Any farmer could have told you that was going to happen. It happens NOW without those stupid laws.

[ChuckD]

I'm sure they're just cutting into line to steal our software developer jobs... :rolleyes

[ChuckD]

pay a fair fucking wage and Americans will do the work. Stop bullshitting with sub minimum wages and pay fair. The farmers are profiting grossly by using cheap labor. Its bullshit.

Congratulations. If you change the word farmer to employer, you've just described the entire labor market in the US.

Unfortunately, no one can buck the system as it is. Anyone who tries to pay a higher wage automatically is priced out of the marketplace. It is what it is, and driving off the people willing to work for those wages will not change the situation. Let's be honest here, too. None of your fucking kids are going to pick fruit or lettuce, even if it paid $75K. It would be to hot and too sweaty and too tiring.

[ChumpDumper]

Sarah Palin needs to take her bus down there and fix this.

[ElNono]

Texas was smarter. They intentionally excluded maids, lawn workers, etc from their proposed legislation. They basically dictate the areas where they can't live without modern slavery. :td

[boutons_deux]

"Georgia's seasonally adjusted unemployment rate declined to 9.9 percent in April, down one-tenth of a percentage point, from a revised 10.0 percent in March."

http://www.11alive.com/rss/article/191535/3/Georgias-unemployment-rate-declines

Probably somewhat lower for Real White Americans, and a lot higher for Real Black Americans, esp young, male RBAs.

Mouse, Repugs in many states are planning to kill the minimum wage, and kill the child-labor prevention laws.

And a very active sector nation-wide is UNPAID intern jobs.

[boutons_deux]

http://images1.dailykos.com/i/user/6685/childlaborers-275.jpg

Maine's LePage signs law easing child labor restriction

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/01/981079/-Maines-LePage-signs-law-easing-child-labor-restriction?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dailykos%2Findex+%28Daily+Kos %29

[baseline bum]

Congratulations. If you change the word farmer to employer, you've just described the entire labor market in the US.

Unfortunately, no one can buck the system as it is. Anyone who tries to pay a higher wage automatically is priced out of the marketplace. It is what it is, and driving off the people willing to work for those wages will not change the situation. Let's be honest here, too. None of your fucking kids are going to pick fruit or lettuce, even if it paid $75K. It would be to hot and too sweaty and too tiring.

Who wouldn't pick fruit for $75K a year? It would beat the hell out of sitting at a desk all day.

[baseline bum]

I love how the law only goes after the workers too, but it's the typical teabagger attitude towards illegal immigration that sees it only as a one-way street.

[Nbadan]

We're employing robots to fight wars, next will be robots that pick fruit and veggies and tend the soil..

[Nbadan]

I love how the law only goes after the workers too, but it's the typical teabagger attitude towards illegal immigration that sees it only as a one-way street.

..the typical tea bagger attitude goes much deeper than just blaming immigrants for taking jobs....

[ChuckD]

Who wouldn't pick fruit for $75K a year? It would beat the hell out of sitting at a desk all day.

If you need to get off your duff, join a health club. Field work is backbreaking. That's why the ancestors of the GOP southerners had slaves.

[CosmicCowboy]

pay a fair fucking wage and Americans will do the work. Stop bullshitting with sub minimum wages and pay fair. The farmers are profiting grossly by using cheap labor. Its bullshit.

I know for a fact what farmers pay around here for picking strawberries and it's a lot more than minimum wage and they STILL have to rely on family and friends to get their strawberries picked.

[TeyshaBlue]

So, Georgia farmers have been artificially supressing wages and prices and when this activity is stopped, their model crashes. Shocking.

[baseline bum]

I know for a fact what farmers pay around here for picking strawberries and it's a lot more than minimum wage and they STILL have to rely on family and friends to get their strawberries picked.

How much on average? Just curious.

[CosmicCowboy]

I know a couple years ago they were offering $10 hr. and couldn't get any takers.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Damn. You cant buy any flat screens or rims on that shit.

[MannyIsGod]

So, Georgia farmers have been artificially supressing wages and prices and when this activity is stopped, their model crashes. Shocking.

Eh, I can tell you this. The wages needed to get Americans to go out and do those jobs are going to make it fairly impossible to compete with imported foods. Its also going to drive up prices at the grocery store a tremendous amount.

I've been in a field and practically my entire family has worked in fields. I never did, but as a child I roamed the farms while they worked. I can't imagine many people doing that work for very cheap and the rate at which food prices are already growing would skyrocket if this changed.

We as a country have more to lose than to gain by this type of action. A hell of a lot more. But politicians are eager to play to the "they took our jobs" mindset in order to pass these laws and its an incredibly short sighted form of pandering that we'll regret sooner or later.

[MannyIsGod]

I know a couple years ago they were offering $10 hr. and couldn't get any takers.

Its horrible work. Much of my family has lasting physical effects from the years they spent in the fields. My own mother has back issues from bending over that little cart and tossing strawberries in. It would take a hell of a lot more than 10 dollars an hour to get me out in those fields. I'm very proud of my grandfather's work ethic that kept him in those fields and traveling to and from states going to where the seasonal work was in order to give his family a better life because that work is helll.

[TeyshaBlue]

Eh, I can tell you this. The wages needed to get Americans to go out and do those jobs are going to make it fairly impossible to compete with imported foods. Its also going to drive up prices at the grocery store a tremendous amount.

I've been in a field and practically my entire family has worked in fields. I never did, but as a child I roamed the farms while they worked. I can't imagine many people doing that work for very cheap and the rate at which food prices are already growing would skyrocket if this changed.

We as a country have more to lose than to gain by this type of action. A hell of a lot more. But politicians are eager to play to the "they took our jobs" mindset in order to pass these laws and its an incredibly short sighted form of pandering that we'll regret sooner or later.

This just in: Not all crops are hand picked. It's about 30% with a very real potential to plunge lower if there were any pressure placed on mechanization. That pressure is now here.

[TeyshaBlue]

Its horrible work. Much of my family has lasting physical effects from the years they spent in the fields. My own mother has back issues from bending over that little cart and tossing strawberries in. It would take a hell of a lot more than 10 dollars an hour to get me out in those fields. I'm very proud of my grandfather's work ethic that kept him in those fields and traveling to and from states going to where the seasonal work was in order to give his family a better life because that work is helll.

I grew up thowing 80lb bales of hay onto flatbeds and then later, into barns. Im pretty sure I never cracked $2.00/hr doing it.:depressed

[CosmicCowboy]

I grew up thowing 80lb bales of hay onto flatbeds and then later, into barns. Im pretty sure I never cracked $2.00/hr doing it.:depressed

No shit. My friends got 5 cents a bale stacked in the barn and I had to do it for free.

[TeyshaBlue]

At least I got free gloves.:lol

I had to buy me some long sleeve shirts tho. Lesson #1, wear long sleeve shirts.:lol:lol

[CosmicCowboy]

At least I got free gloves.:lol

I had to buy me some long sleeve shirts tho. Lesson #1, wear long sleeve shirts.:lol:lol

you had gloves?

sheeeeeeeeeut!

[ElNono]

You would be hard pressed to find an illegal around here that will do yard work for less than $10/hour... It's still 5x cheaper than hiring a landscaping company though.

[Nbadan]

Yeah, yeah....and we all walked 20 miles in 5 feet high snow to be sure to get to school early in the morning.....can you imagine telling people that they got to go live as share croppers and pick cotton for the man....yeah....this is going to be fun....

[Wild Cobra]

I know a couple years ago they were offering $10 hr. and couldn't get any takers.
Maybe the welfare system need to be revamped...

[Nbadan]

This just in: Not all crops are hand picked. It's about 30% with a very real potential to plunge lower if there were any pressure placed on mechanization. That pressure is now here.

30% is a hell of a lot of crops and mechanization ain't cheap....advantage large corporate farms..

[ChumpDumper]

30% is a hell of a lot of crops and mechanization ain't cheap....advantage large corporate farms..No shit.

At that scale, the large companies benefit more than consumers. If I have time, I'll try to find the study that comes to that conclusion.

[TeyshaBlue]

30% is a hell of a lot of crops and mechanization ain't cheap....advantage large corporate farms..

Yeah, but 30% is stll 30%. Its not the monster driver I think Manny was trying to imply.

[TeyshaBlue]

No shit.

At that scale, the large companies benefit more than consumers. If I have time, I'll try to find the study that comes to that conclusion.

The Center for Immigration Studies has some good research...Might be a decent place to look..... So does. The Agricultural Coalition for Immigration Reform.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, but 30% is stll 30%. Its not the monster driver I think Manny was trying to imply.

Eh, 30% is fucking huge, IMO. Especially when you consider if that is 30% of all crops and how much is that affected by grains? Whats the percentage when its not grain crops? Our nation has shitty access to fresh food as it is and this sure as hell isn't going to help.

[TeyshaBlue]

Eh, 30% is fucking huge, IMO. Especially when you consider if that is 30% of all crops and how much is that affected by grains? Whats the percentage when its not grain crops? Our nation has shitty access to fresh food as it is and this sure as hell isn't going to help.

I dont have any stats in front of me but I suspect that thirty % is probably entirely produce.

[RandomGuy]

pay a fair fucking wage and Americans will do the work. Stop bullshitting with sub minimum wages and pay fair. The farmers are profiting grossly by using cheap labor. Its bullshit.

... and the consumers who spend the highest % of their income on food (read: poor) get to have vegetables and fruit for a lower cost.

Two sides to every coin.

[Nbadan]

To address unemployment, Georgia governor proposes farm work


Atlanta (CNN) -- Are you out of work? Are you looking for a job? Do you live in Georgia?

If the answer to those questions is "yes," Gov. Nathan Deal has an idea for you: Become a farm worker.

"We still have an unemployment level here that is unacceptably high, whether or not we can provide some way of transitioning some of those individuals," Deal said last week.

"Perhaps it requires some relocation in some cases for them to be able to fill some of these jobs. We're going to explore all of those things."

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/02/georgia.immigration.farm.workers/index.html)

farm labor in Georgia gets paid $9.12 an hour

[ChuckD]

It's laughable that they still don't get it. They had people willing to do the work, and now they don't. They drove them out.

[ManuBalboa]

Lonestar Card > $10/hr manual labor

This is Amerikuhhh!

[boutons_deux]

Ag industry faces labor woes in immigration debate

A plan to require all American businesses to run their employees through E-Verify, a program that confirms each is legally entitled to work in the U.S., could wreak havoc on an industry where 80 percent of the field workers are illegal immigrants. So could the increased paperwork audits already under way by the Obama administration.

"We are headed toward a train wreck," said Rep. Zoe Lofgren, a California Democrat whose district includes agriculture-rich areas. "The stepped up (workplace) enforcement has brought this to a head."

Lofgren said farmers are worried that their work force is about to disappear. They say they want to hire legal workers and U.S. citizens, but that it's nearly impossible, given the relatively low wages and back-breaking work.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2011/06/04/ag_industry_faces_labor_woes_in_immigration_debate/

[Wild Cobra]

I could have told you that would have happened. Any farmer could have told you that was going to happen. It happens NOW without those stupid laws.
If they had the foresight, they should have done two thing.

1) Offer more money per unit of fruit picked.

2) Go to the state unemployment services and get workers. Unless georgia is really fucked up, they would send people to apply for those jobs, verify, and take people off the welfare rolls who didn't take offerd jobs.

pay a fair fucking wage and Americans will do the work. Stop bullshitting with sub minimum wages and pay fair. The farmers are profiting grossly by using cheap labor. Its bullshit.
One of the few things I agree with you on.

Again, supply and demand rules. In this case, you raise wages until you can get the people needed.

I love how the law only goes after the workers too, but it's the typical teabagger attitude towards illegal immigration that sees it only as a one-way street.
It's the cheap way to solve the illegal immigration problem. If people cannot get jobs, they self deport, or move onto more friendly states like California.

A few years ago, Oregon made it much harder for illegals to get a drivers license. Today, I see very few working the fast food places. Used to be almost all Latino. I think maybe, as their current licenses expired, and couldn't renew, it helped in the self deportation precess here.

I know for a fact what farmers pay around here for picking strawberries and it's a lot more than minimum wage and they STILL have to rely on family and friends to get their strawberries picked.
Yes it is, or at least was when I was a kid. My mother used to take us kids to the field. We picked and ate. As kids, we weren't very active until the second day, and we saw all the money we made. Then, the child labor laws came in play, and mothers could no longer take their kids to the fields.

[Wild Cobra]

... and the consumers who spend the highest % of their income on food (read: poor) get to have vegetables and fruit for a lower cost.

Two sides to every coin.
I remember a radio interview that Lars Larson did a few years ago with a Potato Grower in Idaho. He refused to higher illegal labor. He said his potatoes cost him 3 cents a pound more to take to market than his competitors. I doubt there would be a serious market price impact with other items by paying wages that legal help would do.

[boutons_deux]

FL tomoto pickers and Booger Kink:

Burger King Resists Pay Increase for Tomato Pickers

"Wages for Florida tomato pickers have stayed the same for nearly 20 years. Following the lead of McDonald's and other fast food giants, a Florida-based immigrant rights group is pressuring Burger King to pay a penny more per pound for tomatoes."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89750307

========
Ripe Opportunity: Florida Tomato Pickers Get First Real Raise in 30 Years

The workers who pick those tomatoes earn just 1.4 cents per pound they pick. That works out to about $10,000 to $12,000 a year, and they haven't seen a significant raise in nearly 30 years.

Now that the money is released, however, tomato pickers could see their yearly wages increase to around $17,000 a year

http://news.change.org/stories/ripe-opportunity-florida-tomato-pickers-get-first-real-raise-in-30-years

====

a couple cents/pound max for picking tomatoes? Maybe that's why there's no machines to pick tomatoes, strawberries, etc.

[Wild Cobra]

This bill seems pretty reasonable to me. Didn't read the hole thing but did keyword searches.

Why didn't anyone else in this thread look for the actual bill?

Vote record on HB 87, links to current and previous versions, signed 5/13/11 into law, effective 6/1/11.

HB 87; Illegal Immigration Reform and Enforcement Act of 2011 (http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/display.aspx?Legislation=32190)

Text of HB 87:

House Bill 87 (AS PASSED HOUSE AND SENATE) (http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/20112012/116631.pdf)

[Wild Cobra]

FL tomoto pickers and Booger Kink:

Burger King Resists Pay Increase for Tomato Pickers

"Wages for Florida tomato pickers have stayed the same for nearly 20 years. Following the lead of McDonald's and other fast food giants, a Florida-based immigrant rights group is pressuring Burger King to pay a penny more per pound for tomatoes."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89750307

========
Ripe Opportunity: Florida Tomato Pickers Get First Real Raise in 30 Years

The workers who pick those tomatoes earn just 1.4 cents per pound they pick. That works out to about $10,000 to $12,000 a year, and they haven't seen a significant raise in nearly 30 years.

Now that the money is released, however, tomato pickers could see their yearly wages increase to around $17,000 a year

http://news.change.org/stories/ripe-opportunity-florida-tomato-pickers-get-first-real-raise-in-30-years

====

a couple cents/pound max for picking tomatoes? Maybe that's why there's no machines to pick tomatoes, strawberries, etc.
I don't believe this article, or the pickers are real slow.

Burger size tomatoes are almost a pound each. If they are only 1/2 pound average, at one we second, that's $25.20 per hour.

0.5 x $0.14 x 3600 seconds/hour = $25.20/hr.

The high quality of NPR...

[MannyIsGod]

You think people can pick a tomato a second? :lmao

[MannyIsGod]

The quality of WC.

[MannyIsGod]

WC really thinks someone is going to pick 3600 tomatoes an hour? :lmao

What the fuck is wrong with you? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

[Wild Cobra]

You must be one slow mo fo Manny.

[MannyIsGod]

You think the tomatoes walk themselves to the trucks? You think the plants come to you? You think you have a huge container that magically carries itself? You think people pick at the same speed after working 10 hours?

Yes, I'm the slow one, WC. The quality of WC! Not only is he an expert parts changer, physicist, beer maker, and pizza delivery boy but he can also outpick migrant farmers to the tune of 3600 tomatoes an hour.

[Wild Cobra]

You think the tomatoes walk themselves to the trucks? You think the plants come to you? You think you have a huge container that magically carries itself? You think people pick at the same speed after working 10 hours?

Yes, I'm the slow one, WC. The quality of WC! Not only is he an expert parts changer, physicist, beer maker, and pizza delivery boy but he can also outpick migrant farmers to the tune of 3600 tomatoes an hour.
I've picked crops before. You get into a rhythm and coordinated to go fast, as you get experienced at it, unless you are lazy.

Sure, it's won't be 1800 pounds if you pick at that rate and carry the crates yourself. Thing is, one per second would be slow once you've done it a few days.

Have you ever picked crops?

Even if I'm wrong, if this is the best job someone can get, is it societies fault? Why do you support illegal immigration and that extra public subsidy in the food stamps, hospital visits, etc. that the tax payer pays for. Why do you want food to be subsidized in such a way? Isn't it better to make people work than have them sucking the government teat? Maybe make them work and pay less out of the public trough.

[ChumpDumper]

Which crops did you pick for two days and at what rate?

[baseline bum]

It's the cheap way to solve the illegal immigration problem. If people cannot get jobs, they self deport, or move onto more friendly states like California.


Bullshit. It's a way to lie to racist voters like you so they can claim to be doing something while ensuring nothing ever gets accomplished.

[ChumpDumper]

Bullshit. It's a way to lie to racist voters like you so they can claim to be doing something while ensuring nothing ever gets accomplished.Dude, he had a personal anecdote.

That's as good as a Sarah Palin history lesson.

[Wild Cobra]

Which crops did you pick for two days and at what rate?
Strawberries.

[Winehole23]

The rate was strawberries?

[ChumpDumper]

If it was less than 10,000 an hour, you're a failure, WC.

[ChuckD]

If it was less than 10,000 an hour, you're a failure, WC.

They're so TINY, you should really be able to pick 5 per second...18000 per hour or bust.

[Wild Cobra]

You guys are a joke. I don't recall the rate. They were Hood strawberries. Good size.

Why is it a joke to actually work? Are you guys really that lazy?

[MannyIsGod]

I've picked crops before. You get into a rhythm and coordinated to go fast, as you get experienced at it, unless you are lazy.

Sure, it's won't be 1800 pounds if you pick at that rate and carry the crates yourself. Thing is, one per second would be slow once you've done it a few days.

Have you ever picked crops?


So if its not 1800 pounds then its not 1 per second but one per second is slow? Can you avoid contradiction in a single post. I don't doubt that for a tiny amount of time from when you get to the plant until you have to move to the next one or move your bin/bucket you can get 1 per second but thats such a small fraction of the time that who gives a shit? Peak rates don't matter when half of your time is spent doing something other than picking.




Even if I'm wrong, if this is the best job someone can get, is it societies fault? Why do you support illegal immigration and that extra public subsidy in the food stamps, hospital visits, etc. that the tax payer pays for. Why do you want food to be subsidized in such a way? Isn't it better to make people work than have them sucking the government teat? Maybe make them work and pay less out of the public trough.

Food stamps is a subsidy now?

Wow. You make yourself look out to be more of an idiot each and every day.

[MannyIsGod]

You guys are a joke. I don't recall the rate. They were Hood strawberries. Good size.

Why is it a joke to actually work? Are you guys really that lazy?

Oh shit - he doesn't recall the rate but he was quick to make up a bullshit tomatoes rate in order to call actual researched rates bullshit.

Fucking AMAZING.

[MannyIsGod]

You're better than the fucking PS3 Wild Cobra. You only do EVERYTHING. Picking, Parts Changing, Pizza Delivering, Stalking.

[Wild Cobra]

Manny, I could elaborate, but it doesn't matter. You will just find another way to criticize. I will say I should have worded as "average."

Yes. Food stamps are subsidies since they are not earned.

[MannyIsGod]

You basically label any form of government assistance a subsidy when it suits you and you refuse to do that when it doesn't.

[TeyshaBlue]

I've been hopping airports all weekend...with the occassional layover. This thread has been solid gold everyone I check in. :lmao

WC getting clowned at every post. Classic.