College, too easy for its own good

[DarrinS]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-arum-college-20110602,0,1981136.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fnews%2Fopinion%2Fco mmentary+%28L.A.+Times+-+Commentary%29






By Richard Arum and Josipa Roksa

June 2, 2011
As this year's crop of college graduates leaves school, burdened with high levels of debt and entering a severely depressed job market, they may be asking themselves a fundamental question: Was college worth it?

And it's no wonder they're asking. Large numbers of the new graduates will face sustained periods of underemployment and low wages for years. Worse still, many of them were poorly prepared for the future, having spent four (or more) years of college with only modest academic demands that produced only limited improvement in the skills necessary to be successful in today's knowledge-based economy.

We recently tracked several thousand students as they moved through and graduated from a diverse set of more than two dozen colleges and universities, and we found consistent evidence that many students were not being appropriately challenged. In a typical semester, 50% of students did not take a single course requiring more than 20 pages of writing, 32% did not have any classes that required reading more than 40 pages per week, and 36% reported studying alone five or fewer hours per week.

Not surprisingly, given such a widespread lack of academic rigor, about a third of students failed to demonstrate significant gains in critical thinking, complex reasoning and writing ability (as measured by the Collegiate Learning Assessment) during their four years of college. (What's up, Manny?)

The students themselves must bear some of the blame for this, of course. Improvement in thinking and writing skills requires academic engagement; simply hanging out on a college campus for multiple years isn't enough. Yet at many institutions, that seems to be sufficient to earn a degree. At many schools, students can choose from a menu of easy programs and classes that allow them to graduate without having received a rigorous college education. Colleges are complicit, in that they reward students with high grades for little effort. Indeed, the students in our study who reported studying alone five or fewer hours per week nevertheless had an average cumulative GPA of 3.16.

To be sure, there were many exceptions to this dismal portrait of the state of undergraduate learning. Some academic programs and colleges are quite rigorous, and some students we followed pushed themselves and excelled. In general, traditional arts and science fields (math, science, humanities and the social sciences) tended to be more demanding, and students who majored in those subjects studied more and showed higher gains. So too did students attending more selective colleges. In addition, at every college and university examined, we found some students who were applying themselves and learning at impressive levels.

These real accomplishments do not, however, exonerate the colleges and universities that are happy to collect annual tuition dollars but then fail to provide many students with a high-quality education.

In much of higher education, the problem is in part that undergraduate education is no longer a top priority. Instead of focusing on undergraduates and what they are learning, schools have come to care more about such things as admission yields, graduation rates, faculty research productivity, pharmaceutical patents, deluxe dormitory rooms, elaborate student centers and state-of-the-art athletic facilities complete with luxury boxes. Many institutions favor priorities that can be boasted about in alumni magazines and admission brochures or that can help boost their scores in college rankings. Colleges have abandoned responsibility for shaping students' academic development and instead have come to embrace a service model that caters to satisfying students' expressed desires.

These trends have all added up to less rigor. California labor economists Philip Babcock and Mindy Marks, for example, have documented that full-time college students' time spent studying dropped in half between 1960 and today. Moreover, from 1970 to 2000, as colleges increasingly hired additional staff to attend to student social and personal needs, the percentage of professional employees in higher education who were faculty decreased from about two-thirds to around one-half. At the same time, through their professional advancement and tenure policies, schools encouraged faculty to focus more on research rather than teaching. When teaching was considered as part of the equation, student course assessments tended to be the method used to evaluate teaching, which tends to incentivize lenient grading and entertaining forms of instruction.

So how should this academic drift of our colleges and universities be addressed? Some have proposed introducing a federal accountability system. We are against such a move, as federal regulation would probably be counterproductive and include a large set of detrimental, unintended consequences.

Accountability in higher education rightly resides at lower levels of the system. College trustees have at the institutional level the fiduciary responsibility to begin holding administrators accountable by asking: How are student learning outcomes and program quality being measured, and what is being done to address areas of concern that have been identified? Faculty must also take responsibility individually and collectively to define and ensure program quality and academic standards. Finally, student undergraduate cultures will have to change, with students themselves recognizing that they need more from college than a paper diploma and an expanded roster of Facebook friends. :lmao

[George Gervin's Afro]

So can anyone surmise as to whether darrins is an opponent or proponent of higher education?

[boutons_deux]

The Next Bubble Is About to Burst: College Grads Face Dwindling Jobs and Mounting Loans

Young people between the ages of 16 and 24 face an unemployment rate nearly twice that of the rest of the population, according to data from the Economic Policy Institute. 2010's 18.4 percent rate for youth was the worst in the 60 years that economists have collected such data. ColorLines notes that in 2010, 8.4 percent of white college graduates were unemployed, 13.8 percent of Latino graduates, and a dismal 19 percent of black graduates.

Those bright, shiny new degrees simply aren't worth the paper they're printed on all too often. The cost of a college degree is up some 3,400 percent since 1972, but as we all know too well, household incomes haven't increased by anything close to that number -- not for the bottom 99 percent of us, anyway.

mall wonder that many are calling the student loan crisis a bubble possibly worse than the credit card or housing bubbles. Small wonder that when polled by the Pew Research Center and the Chronicle of Higher Education, 57 percent of Americans said higher education doesn't provide a good value, and 75 percent said it is too expensive for most to afford. Yet the lucky graduates who do have jobs still make, on average, $20,000 a year more than those without degrees. It seems that higher education, as with so much else in this society, is turning into a way to keep those who already have money making more of it.

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/151149

[DarrinS]

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Business/images-5/mcdonalds-arches.jpg

[DarrinS]

So can anyone surmise as to whether darrins is an opponent or proponent of higher education?


I graduated a LONG time ago.

[boutons_deux]

Did The Lobbyists Win? Education Dept. Issues Significantly Watered-Down Regulations For Subprime Schools

for-profit colleges — schools like the University of Phoenix or Kaplan University — have been collecting 90 percent of their revenue from the federal government while leaving their students buried in debt and with bleak job prospects.

The new regulations are intended to cut off higher education programs from federal money if too many of their students can’t find good jobs and default on their loans. However, after months of intense lobbying by the for-profit schools, their front groups, and conservative lawmakers, the new rules are significantly weaker than draft rules first proposed by the Education Department last year.

The for-profit industry is currently facing a probe by attorneys general in 10 states, and one of the industry’s biggest actors, the Education Management Corporation, is under investigation for allegedly illegal recruiting practices.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06/02/234135/lobbyists-subprime-schools-watered-down/

[CosmicCowboy]

The answer will probably end up being an aftermarket testing company to put together something similar to the SAT to gauge what graduates do and don't know, and employers will make submission of the test results mandatory with their job application. Each employer would obviously have their own criteria fro what they were looking for and could evaluate the test results accordingly. Just too many college graduates that skated through and didn't learn shit.

[DarrinS]

for-profit colleges


Ah... It's a profit deal. Takes the pressure off. Get your weight guessed right here! Only a buck! Actual live weight guessing! Take a chance and win some crap!

[Bartleby]

The game changer is going to be distance learning (i.e. online course offerings), and I'm not talking about U. of Phoenix and their ilk. Right now over 90% of all four-year higher ed. institutions offer some sort of distance learning courses. The cost savings to the school and the convenience for students are too big for both sides to resist.

[Cry Havoc]

I graduated a LONG time ago.

That's a nice, dodgy answer you provided there.


So can anyone surmise as to whether darrins is an opponent or proponent of higher education?

It's easy, just check the latest GOP talking points. Teachers = overpaid. Schools = overfunded. Higher education: Mostly unnecessary, something that could be cut from the budget easily enough.

[DarrinS]

It's easy, just check the latest GOP talking points. .... Higher education: Mostly unnecessary, something that could be cut from the budget easily enough.


On what planet is that a GOP talking point?

Also, how are "for-profit", private universities part of any state budget?

[ChumpDumper]

Darrin, do you consider your critical thinking, complex reasoning and writing ability to be at a high level?

[DMX7]

What's the average university of phoenix gpa? It seems like everyone who graduated from that diploma mill has like a 3.9 gpa.

[Winehole23]

If students find college too easy, God bless em. It ain't the university's fault they found nothing in it besides professional credentials, easy access to drugs and alcohol, and hook up opportunities.






(What is college for, etc....)

[boutons_deux]

"private universities part of any state budget"

state? dunno,

but for-profit "universities" get nearly all their revenue from Pell Grants and other federal funds. The students mostly don't finish with a diploma, but with a lot of debt, and, if they get a diploma, find employers don't recognize the diploma as being credible indicator of an education or employability for a "college educated" position.

[Winehole23]

employers don't recognize the diploma as being credible indicator of an education or employability for a "college educated" position.Absolutely true; credentials do not guarantee aptitude or skill.


The map is not the territory.




(Your comment echoes CC's remark about the need for professional post-collegiate evaluation of job applicants.)

[CosmicCowboy]

Absolutely true; credentials do not guarantee aptitude or skill.






(Your comment echoes CC's remark about the need for professional post-collegiate evaluation of job applicants.)

The institutions themselves recognize there is a huge disparity in learning in undergraduates, thus the need for NCAT's, LSAT's, GMAT's, etc.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm actually going to agree with the OP here. I do think that many degree plans - and especially those in the humanities - have a real lack of difficulty. I can't tell you how many of my fellow students' papers I've read and felt that their quality was extremely low. I mainly feel this is because many courses have relaxed the writing requirements and lowered the bar.

That being said, I don't think you can say the same for most courses in mathematics, computer sciences, engineering, and physical and life sciences. To date, the hardest course I've ever taken was a biology course taught at San Antonio College. The professor set the bar very high and if you didn't actually study and come to class prepared you were not going to do well. I was extremely impressed and I was glad to see someone putting the effort into make the class worthwhile.

[MannyIsGod]

The institutions themselves recognize there is a huge disparity in learning in undergraduates, thus the need for NCAT's, LSAT's, GMAT's, etc.

I think thats somewhat true but I think the reason for those tests is that not every college graduate has the ability to go on to post graduate studies and this is another way of weeding them out just as the SAT/ACT is supposed to do the same regarding undrgraduate studies for high school graduates.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, and Darrin directing the comment about critical thinking to me is about as laughable as things get. Darrin displays about as much critical thinking as my cat and my cat is about the dumbest animal I've ever owned.

[boutons_deux]

"many courses have relaxed the writing requirements"

This starts in HS. English composition should be a required course, two years, 10th, 11th grades.

[MannyIsGod]

Yes, it definitely starts in HS. Its not just writing either. The vast majority of kids entering college at SAC have to take remedial courses in reading, writing, and math. I can't fathom how these people are getting diplomas if they can't do the flat out basics.

Having to catch so many kids up is a serious drain on public resources. This shit should be accomplished in HS.

There's a reason our country is where it is in the education rankings.

[TeyshaBlue]

"many courses have relaxed the writing requirements"

This starts in HS. English composition should be a required course, two years, 10th, 11th grades.

Agreed. Composition is an excellent tool with which to whittle critical thinking. Having to stop, think, and parse a sentence appears to be a lost art.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yes, it definitely starts in HS. Its not just writing either. The vast majority of kids entering college at SAC have to take remedial courses in reading, writing, and math. I can't fathom how these people are getting diplomas if they can't do the flat out basics.

Having to catch so many kids up is a serious drain on public resources. This shit should be accomplished in HS.

There's a reason our country is where it is in the education rankings.

reminds me of the old saying "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"

[MannyIsGod]

Teysha agreeing with Butons is like a sign of the apocalypse. Good thing that post didn't happen on May 20th.

[TeyshaBlue]

Teysha agreeing with Butons is like a sign of the apocalypse. Good thing that post didn't happen on May 20th.

:lol

[101A]

When teaching was considered as part of the equation, student course assessments tended to be the method used to evaluate teaching, which tends to incentivize lenient grading and entertaining forms of instruction.

Gospel.

[DarrinS]

Oh, and Darrin directing the comment about critical thinking to me is about as laughable as things get. Darrin displays about as much critical thinking as my cat and my cat is about the dumbest animal I've ever owned.


Aren't you the same person that said the hardest class you ever took was a biology course at SAC?

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[DarrinS]

Manny,


Let me know when you've taken thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, heat transfer, and digital control systems.

[MannyIsGod]

Aren't you the same person that said the hardest class you ever took was a biology course at SAC?

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


Manny,


Let me know when you've taken thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, heat transfer, and digital control systems.

Do any of those classes teach you critical thinking? Your lack of critical thinking in this very thread is on display, Darrin. You can't even help yourself but then again we don't expect a bird to change its feathers.

[MannyIsGod]

Also, I'm curious as to why you think a Biology class at SAC couldn't be harder than those courses. Explain.

[DarrinS]

Do any of those classes teach you critical thinking? Your lack of critical thinking in this very thread is on display, Darrin. You can't even help yourself but then again we don't expect a bird to change its feathers.


Let me know when your cat gets an engineering degree and masters a dozen programming languages.


EDIT> By the way, do you really own a cat? Why would that not surprise me?

[MannyIsGod]

My cat also doesn't get owned here on a daily basis. I'm sure you've had accomplishments in your life, Darrin, but what you somehow can't grasp is that you display many of the faults in that very article you linked here on a daily basis. You may very well be the poster child for the problems in the article and yet after posting something that rails about the lack of critical thinking in achieving degrees you then try to use your degrees as a proof that you have intelligence?

Do you not see the shit you do? I mean how is that possible?

Also, are you saying an alpha male can't own a cat, Darrin? The cat is actually my GFs but since we live together and I enjoy the cat, I consider it mine as well.

[MannyIsGod]

Darrin in OP: College educations aren't all that.

Darrin later in the thread: I have a college education so I'm smart!!!!!!

[DarrinS]

Also, I'm curious as to why you think a Biology class at SAC couldn't be harder than those courses. Explain.



Well, I never took undergrad bio at the prestigious SAC (Mecca for critical thinking), but I did take it.

[MannyIsGod]

You know, I would actually give you credit for showing critical thinking by your continual dodging of questions if you actually performed it with any skill. The same could be said for your constant erection of strawmen.

So, why don't you think a biology class at SAC coudln't be harder than the courses you mentioned?

[DarrinS]

So, why don't you think a biology class at SAC coudln't be harder than the courses you mentioned?


A graduate-level bio class that included a healthy dose of stats might be difficult, but your standard bio 101? Not so much.

[TeyshaBlue]

Manny,


Let me know when you've taken thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, heat transfer, and digital control systems.

lol @ transcript smack.:lmao

[MannyIsGod]

Obviously it wasn't your standard Bio 101 if it stood out. Are you saying that all undergraduate biology courses are equal? Are you saying that it is impossible for a professor at SAC teaching this course to apply a very high bar?

You see, a person who has critical thinking skills would actually have thought of these questions.

[TeyshaBlue]

18th century part-writing ftw!

[MannyIsGod]

lol @ transcript smack.:lmao

Thats not even the kicker though. First, Darrin posts the OP then goes to transcript smack. Obviously, Darrin displays the ultimate level in critical thinking.

[TeyshaBlue]

Oh you plebians with your biology and engineering classes. Positively gauche!

[desflood]

The cat is actually my GFs
A true alpha male wouldn't have felt the need to point that out :p:

[MannyIsGod]

A true alpha male wouldn't have felt the need to point that out :p:

:lol good call.

[TeyshaBlue]

A true alpha male wouldn't have felt the need to point that out :p:

:lol

[LnGrrrR]

Darrin, do you consider your critical thinking, complex reasoning and writing ability to be at a high level?

:lmao

[Blake]

As this year's crop of college graduates leaves school, burdened with high levels of debt and entering a severely depressed job market, they may be asking themselves a fundamental question: Was college worth it?



I don't think this question was ever really given a straight answer.

If you go to college for the sole purpose of learning, I think it may be whatever you put into it, (with several variables involved of course, like course content and university choice/staff, etc.). If you learned what you went to school to learn, then yes, college was worth it.

If you go to college with the purpose of becoming an engineer, and you get a job as an engineer, then yes, college was worth it.

If you go to college with the idea that getting a degree in any subject will help you land a job later on, in my experience, 99+% of the time you are going to screw yourself over with a shitty job that you probably could have landed without the degree
.....not to mention the student loan that will come with that for many ignorant fools. In this instance, college would definitely not be worth it.

I can't stand how society forces the notion down on kids that they need a college education when many really don't.

[DarrinS]

^good points. I agree 100%

[DMX7]

Easy or not, a college degree still greatly increases the probability of getting a good job. It was not, nor will it ever be an assurance of employment especially when fewer jobs are available.

[LnGrrrR]

Let me know when you've taken thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, heat transfer, and digital control systems.

Don't you work in software? (confused)

[baseline bum]

Well, I never took undergrad bio at the prestigious SAC (Mecca for critical thinking), but I did take it.

Wow, you always bitch about Ivy League school elitism vs state schools, and now you're doing the same? You're a constant contradiction.

[LnGrrrR]

From how it appears in this thread, DarrinS knows 12 different programming language and thermodynamics. This leads me to two conclusions:

1) DarrinS's career would seem to be highly specialized.

2) WC will soon profess his love for Python. (I'm pretty sure he's already tutored us on thermodynamics.)

[baseline bum]

If WC loved Python I'd have to give him some credit. Awesome language.

[DarrinS]

From how it appears in this thread, DarrinS knows 12 different programming language and thermodynamics. This leads me to two conclusions:

1) DarrinS's career would seem to be highly specialized.

2) WC will soon profess his love for Python. (I'm pretty sure he's already tutored us on thermodynamics.)

You are correct that my career is highly specialized. I write engineering-based software. It's common for companies to employ both subject matter experts and programmers. I'm one of those rare birds who is both.

Python is a very cool language, btw.

[DarrinS]

IronPython is even better.

[DarrinS]

You can go to college, then grad school, go on to have ZERO real world experience, and still become the POTUS. So, go ahead and disregard the entire thread.

[ElNono]

Can't stand scripting languages in general... When I have to write something with them, I normally end up using php...

[ElNono]

You can go to college, then grad school, go on to have ZERO real world experience, and still become the POTUS. So, go ahead and disregard the entire thread.

Conversely, you could be black, go to college, graduate at the top of your class, and smart people still won't go see you.

[DarrinS]

Can't stand scripting languages in general... When I have to write something with them, I normally end up using php...

Well, there's one I don't know. I've always used JavaScript for client-side stuff, but only when absolutely necessary.

[DarrinS]

Conversely, you could be black, go to college, graduate at the top of your class, and smart people still won't go see you.

I'd go see David Robinson speak.

[ElNono]

I'd go see David Robinson speak.

He could be a product of affirmative action!

[MannyIsGod]

You can go to college, then grad school, go on to have ZERO real world experience, and still become the POTUS. So, go ahead and disregard the entire thread.

Who's done that?

[MannyIsGod]

I guess you can say Obama has no real world experience if you ignore his time as an attorney, his time as a professor, and his time doing actual work in a community.

That, however, would be a strange definition of real world.

[MannyIsGod]

I'd go see David Robinson speak.

So you knock Obama but you want to hear a guy who's main claim to fame is being athletic? :lol

[ElNono]

Who's done that?

I thought he was talking about Reagan, tbh.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol Yeah good call.

[DarrinS]

I guess you can say Obama has no real world experience if you ignore his time as an attorney, his time as a professor, and his time doing actual work in a community.

That, however, would be a strange definition of real world.

Yes, that would be a strange definition of "real world".

[MannyIsGod]

Playing in the NBA = real world. Helping poor people in Chicago = "real world".

[Def Rowe]

You can go to college, then grad school, go on to have ZERO real world experience, and still become the POTUS. So, go ahead and disregard the entire thread.

http://www.freedomlibertypatriots.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Image-bush_thumbs_up.jpg

[RandomGuy]

Oh, and Darrin directing the comment about critical thinking to me is about as laughable as things get. Darrin displays about as much critical thinking as my cat and my cat is about the dumbest animal I've ever owned.

You are not the only person who found that to be more than a little ironic.

[LnGrrrR]

You are correct that my career is highly specialized. I write engineering-based software. It's common for companies to employ both subject matter experts and programmers. I'm one of those rare birds who is both.

Sounds interesting. I assumed it was something along those lines. I find that as I get further in my networking career, I'm forced to learn info from other disciplines, such as physical security, CE/power info, project management, etc etc.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I graduated a LONG time ago.

That much is obvious. another baby boomer with a stance trying to denigrate young Americans. Thats all you fucks ever do.

Your generation is the problem. You are the presidents of those schools. If you have a problem with how things are then you have only you and your contemporaries to blame.

i promise you we are not going to fail as hard as you have.

[DarrinS]

That much is obvious. another baby boomer with a stance trying to denigrate young Americans. Thats all you fucks ever do.

Your generation is the problem. You are the presidents of those schools. If you have a problem with how things are then you have only you and your contemporaries to blame.

i promise you we are not going to fail as hard as you have.


You must have me confused with my parents' generation. That being said, you can thank that generation for all the technology you currently enjoy, you ungrateful little fucktard.

[DarrinS]

Sounds interesting. I assumed it was something along those lines. I find that as I get further in my networking career, I'm forced to learn info from other disciplines, such as physical security, CE/power info, project management, etc etc.

It's a good idea to broaden your experience like that. Kind of an insurance policy. Besides that, you may discover that you actually have more interest in one of those other areas.

[CuckingFunt]

The problem at the college level is the same as the problem at the high school, middle school, and elementary levels. There's no value in learning anymore. A degree is a means to an end, so do the minimum amount possible to get that piece of paper.

[Wild Cobra]

The problem at the college level is the same as the problem at the high school, middle school, and elementary levels. There's no value in learning anymore. A degree is a means to an end, so do the minimum amount possible to get that piece of paper.
Agreed.

Also, this idea that you need a college degree has some merit, but there will only be so many jobs that need the degree, and there will always be standards. Supply and demand will lower the wages of those taking college as more people get degrees. Corporations love the upcoming cheap labor.

[greyforest]

Also, I'm curious as to why you think a Biology class at SAC couldn't be harder than those courses. Explain.

Crofl noob.

Your course is obviously entry level, because it's called "Biology" instead of, say, "Molecular Oncology" or "Organic Chemistry III".

[MannyIsGod]

I gave the course name? More critical thinking at work. The course name of not "biology" I've never seen a course titled just "biology". I said it was a biology course as in the TYPE of course it was.

CROFL Noob indeed.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You must have me confused with my parents' generation. That being said, you can thank that generation for all the technology you currently enjoy, you ungrateful little fucktard.

Most of transistor technology was developed in the early twentieth century.

Most of the insightful stuff in EM theory was developed before or around that time.

Boomers refined using redundancy and modulation in communication which was initially worked on and developed in WW2 and the fifties.

You have the software shenanigans of the 1980s and all i can say is thank god for WW2ers getting the standardization boat rolling in the 1960s.

I am grateful to my forebearers that were worth a shit. You expect me to be grateful for this steaming pile?

[greyforest]

I gave the course name? More critical thinking at work. The course name of not "biology" I've never seen a course titled just "biology". I said it was a biology course as in the TYPE of course it was.

CROFL Noob indeed.

Ah, so you remember it was a biology-specific course but forgot whether it was about anatomy or fungi classification. I apologize, completely understandable.

[MannyIsGod]

Who said anything about forgetting? Did I say I forgot? Fuck, reading is hard for you, isn't it?

[Kyle Orton]

I think it's ironic one of this sites most die hard right wingers made a thread about college being easy when he probably supports a presidential candidate who needed 6 years and 5 different colleges to get a degree as a fuckin journalism major :lmao

[Kyle Orton]

Manny,


Let me know when you've taken thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, heat transfer, and digital control systems.

Let me know when you have.

[Kyle Orton]

You can go to college, then grad school, go on to have ZERO real world experience, and still become the POTUS.

Are you talking about det one time someone graduated from an Ivy League school his daddeh bought him into and then had his daddeh buy him a major league baseball team I saaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiddddddddddddd

[TE]

Are you talking about det one time someone graduated from an Ivy League school his daddeh bought him into and then had his daddeh buy him a major league baseball team I saaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiddddddddddddd

:lmao

[DMX7]

DarrinS making a fool of himself yet again. He's on the roll of a lifetime.

[ploto]

My undergrad was harder than my graduate school, and I am not sure if it was because of the years between the two or the institutions. I think it is the former. I had classmates in grad school who griped and griped about the older professor who was more traditional. I loved his class. He admitted to me that grades are inflated from when he first taught. I used to get 100's on all the papers in his class, and I was shocked. In high school and as an undergrad, no teacher ever gave anyone a 100 on a paper. If it was great, you got an A. He told me straight forward that what used to be a C is now a B, what used to be a B is now an A, and that my used-to-be-an-A is now a 100 because he could not justify giving me the same A that others received.

I also agree that it is up to you whether you learn or not. I always worked to learn as much as possible. I figure I am paying good tuition and I want to learn, regardless of what is going on in my class. I always read more, asked more questions, looked up things that interested me. That is the nice thing about the time you often have in college.

[Bartleby]

Grades in grad school are further inflated due to the fact that a C is essentially a failing grade.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Manny,


Let me know when you've taken thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, heat transfer, and digital control systems.

I did not take those classes i had to learn them on my own for the PE.

You can solve simultaneous equations and PDEs. Who gives a fuck?

[DarrinS]

I did not take those classes i had to learn them on my own for the PE.

You can solve simultaneous equations and PDEs. Who gives a fuck?


Are you going to use your newfound expertise to figure out what happened to WTC7?



:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[DarrinS]

Most of transistor technology was developed in the early twentieth century.

Most of the insightful stuff in EM theory was developed before or around that time.

Boomers refined using redundancy and modulation in communication which was initially worked on and developed in WW2 and the fifties.

You have the software shenanigans of the 1980s and all i can say is thank god for WW2ers getting the standardization boat rolling in the 1960s.

I am grateful to my forebearers that were worth a shit. You expect me to be grateful for this steaming pile?


Yes, you are an ungrateful little fucktard.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Are you going to use your newfound expertise to figure out what happened to WTC7?

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Red herring much?

Lets try this again.

Why should we care?

Most of the systems for loving simultaneous equations like Gauss or Kramer is not critical thinking. It is a checklist. Diagnolizing a matrix is neat and effective but the insight was already done. Applying the technique is jsut going down a checklist.

Fourier series for heat problems are a linear approximation. When they decided you can add infinite series of fourier integrals to approximate real values that was true insight. When you learned the checklist that was not

BTW all of those methods were developed in the 19th century. Thanks LaPlace, Fourier, Gauss, et al.

You may have the logical consistency to follow a path laid before you but one thing that is very obvious, you cannot think outside of that.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yes, you are an ungrateful little fucktard.

Ungrateful of what? I talk of specifics you just whine like a little bitch.

Back up what you say or shut the fuck up, milquetoast.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oh and on the I am so smart because i can write code assertion.


It's common for companies to employ both subject matter experts and programmers. I'm one of those rare birds who is both.

Darrin is trying to make it seem like he is so smart because he can write in C#, HTML and COBOL. What he really should have said was


Most companies hire engineers and technicians. My expertise on the subject matter was marginal so I focused on the mundane to try and market myself. Most people do not have to go through all that.

If you know VLSI, learning programming languages is only a matter of syntax. That you think its the hallmark of your 'success' is telling.

[TheInternets]

Are you going to use your newfound expertise to figure out what happened to WTC7?



:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


Crofl.

Makes a thread about how easy college is.

Posts about how hard the classes were that he took.

:cry :cry :cry

[DarrinS]

Red herring much?

Lets try this again.

Why should we care?

Most of the systems for loving simultaneous equations like Gauss or Kramer is not critical thinking. It is a checklist. Diagnolizing a matrix is neat and effective but the insight was already done. Applying the technique is jsut going down a checklist.

Fourier series for heat problems are a linear approximation. When they decided you can add infinite series of fourier integrals to approximate real values that was true insight. When you learned the checklist that was not

BTW all of those methods were developed in the 19th century. Thanks LaPlace, Fourier, Gauss, et al.

You may have the logical consistency to follow a path laid before you but one thing that is very obvious, you cannot think outside of that.



Was it your critical thinking that led you to believe WTC7 was an "inside job" and that the baby boomer generation is responsible for all the world's problems?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Was it your critical thinking that led you to believe WTC7 was an "inside job" and that the baby boomer generation is responsible for all the world's problems?

I am not wiriting this for your sake, dumbass. i am doing it for everyone else.

Everyone else: notice how he is unable to address any point that I make and now attempts to steer the conversation elsewhere?

That also is very telling.

[florige]

It's a good idea to broaden your experience like that. Kind of an insurance policy. Besides that, you may discover that you actually have more interest in one of those other areas.



So what did you major in Electrical Engineering/Comp Science? I am torn between Comp Engineering, Electrical, or Comp Science. Electrical seems to be the one nowadays that guarantee the highest starting salary outside of Nuclear and Chem Eng.

[DarrinS]

So what did you major in Electrical Engineering/Comp Science? I am torn between Comp Engineering, Electrical, or Comp Science. Electrical seems to be the one nowadays that guarantee the highest starting salary outside of Nuclear and Chem Eng.

I majored in Mechanical Engineering.

Maybe you should just take a couple of classes in each field and see what you enjoy more.

[Agloco]

So what did you major in Electrical Engineering/Comp Science? I am torn between Comp Engineering, Electrical, or Comp Science. Electrical seems to be the one nowadays that guarantee the highest starting salary outside of Nuclear and Chem Eng.


I majored in Mechanical Engineering.

Maybe you should just take a couple of classes in each field and see what you enjoy more.

Or maybe you should drop that mess altogether and come over to the dark side. I know a pretty cool Nuclear Physics professor who could get you started.......

[TE]

Or maybe you should drop that mess altogether and come over to the dark side. I know a pretty cool Nuclear Physics professor who could get you started.......

:lol