why isn't having a kid and not being there for it NOT a crime?

[mingus]

so i've been thinking about this and i don't understand why absent fathers just have to pay a sum of money... according ot the law, it's and acceptable compensation. i don't agree with that. kids should have a dad and a mom. it is essential for the development of the kid to have two parents. it's an inustice to the kid that the father or mother isn't in prison for not being there for him/her. if the mom isn't around, she should be locked up. if the dad, he should be locked up. why isn't having a kid and not being their for it NOT a crime? we treat this too nonchalantly. maybe someone can give me some insight and in the process reveal my ignorance.

[baseline bum]

How is a parent going to pay child support in jail? I think the current system where you can't leave the country when behind and where your paycheck can have your child support payment directly docked is far superior than the double whammy of the public paying to lock up another non-violent offender and then the other parent / kid having to get on public assistance to make up for the lack of child support payments.

[Oh, Gee!!]

you'd be forcing adults into marriages/living arrangements that they don't want. How is that constitutional?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

A lot of people really don't have any values any more. People value and collect material possessions rather than work on themselves to be a decent human being. You have people filming people getting beat up instead of helping out. Kicking people in the head while they're having a seizure on a dirty floor. I've never put any faith in man and I dont plan on changing that any time soon.

[Drachen]

Actually, it is considered child abandonment, but the state AG's office isn't much help... Especially when said parent in question moves out of state.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I don't see how having a parent around that is there under the threat of imprisonment is really going to do the kid much better. It's tough enough for the parents who wanted to be parents. Just seems it would create a lot of resentment for the kid and make abuse (or worse) more likely.

[JoeChalupa]

I hate and despise deadbeat parents.

[Blake]

so i've been thinking about this and i don't understand why absent fathers just have to pay a sum of money... according ot the law, it's and acceptable compensation. i don't agree with that. kids should have a dad and a mom. it is essential for the development of the kid to have two parents. it's an inustice to the kid that the father or mother isn't in prison for not being there for him/her. if the mom isn't around, she should be locked up. if the dad, he should be locked up. why isn't having a kid and not being their for it NOT a crime? we treat this too nonchalantly. maybe someone can give me some insight and in the process reveal my ignorance.

how many hours of parent/kid time a week/month/year would be ok for you in order to keep mom/dad out of jail?

[desflood]

I don't see how having a parent around that is there under the threat of imprisonment is really going to do the kid much better. It's tough enough for the parents who wanted to be parents. Just seems it would create a lot of resentment for the kid and make abuse (or worse) more likely.
:tu

[Nathan89]

Well if it was up to him he would give the kid up for adoption.

[JoeChalupa]

joe chalupa is a damn good father, he provides food on the table for his kids every night! specifically hotdogs with plain mustard.

I splurged today and had chili dogs today for lunch with onions and relish!! . :tu

[JoeChalupa]

And if you can't support them financially at least support them emotionally and show them some love. A simple hug and an "I love you" is worth millions.

[SpursWoman]

lol Texas Attorney General Child Support Interactive






I'm owed a lot of hugs. :wow

[Nathan Explosion]

And if you can't support them financially at least support them emotionally and show them some love. A simple hug and an "I love you" is worth millions.

My ex wife has seen our kids a total of 2 times in 2 1/2 months. The first time it was a month and when she showed, my son just kept hugging her and kissing her while my daughter kept screaming "Mommy".

I see my ex once a week to pick up a check for $100. Her and I don't get along because I told her that she needed to step up and be a mom to our kids and if she wasn't prepared to do that, then don't bother coming around. In her eyes I said don't come around. What I actually said was grow the fuck up and act like an adult. I don't need another child in my home.

Her excuse, she wasn't emotionally prepared to have a child. My response, "that was information that's 5 years too late. The children are here, so you have to deal with it."

[mrsmaalox]

There are a lot of dregs out there who should never be allowed near children----even their own.

[Spurminator]

kids should have a dad and a mom. it is essential for the development of the kid to have two parents.

No, it's not. And it certainly isn't something the government should punitively enforce.

[CubanSucks]

you really want more black men in prison? :downspin:

[Nathan Explosion]

No, it's not. And it certainly isn't something the government should punitively enforce.

Two parents aren't needed, but to say it isn't ideal is ignorant or some liberal bullshit (btw, most would consider me liberal).

I have a daughter. Other than my mom, she's the only girl in the family. Basically, what the fuck do I know about raising a daughter. There are some things she's going to need to learn and I haven't a clue about what they are or how to teach her. Mom's come in handy. And while you can say the grandmother can help (you're talking to someone who chose to live with grandparents to go to a different high school, so I know what it's like), the grandparent isn't the parent, so it's not the same.

Having 2 loving parents that live together is the best situation for all children. Second best is having two loving parents that are involved, even if they are separate. But having a parent missing can raise questions in the child's mind no matter how well adjusted they are, or how great a job the one parent did. It's human nature to wonder why you weren't good enough for your own parent to stick around. It happens.

[Drachen]

lol Texas Attorney General Child Support Interactive






I'm owed a lot of hugs. :wow

so is my wife

[thispego]

Child support is pretty good penance for people who are Selfish enough to not raise kids that they brought into this world. Deadbeats who dont pay child support are the ones that shOuld end up behind bars. Taking 0 responsibility for your actions makes you absolute scum, especially when that responsibilty is a young child.

[Nathan Explosion]

Child support is pretty good penance for people who are Selfish enough to not raise kids that they brought into this world. Deadbeats who dont pay child support are the ones that shOuld end up behind bars. Taking 0 responsibility for your actions makes you absoluye scum, especially when that resp

But sometimes the child support isn't enough. Anything is better than nothing, but children are expensive and in my case, when they were born, I was counting on the fact that there would be 2 incomes supporting them, not 1 1/3 incomes. Especially when the ex bitches that I'm asking for too much. I'm making all the sacrifice, putting a roof over their head (not living with mom), food on their plates and clothes on their back.

The least you can do is take half of the monetary responsibility since you've abandoned all the emotional and mental responsibility of raising children.

[desflood]

Child support is pretty good penance for people who are Selfish enough to not raise kids that they brought into this world. Deadbeats who dont pay child support are the ones that shOuld end up behind bars. Taking 0 responsibility for your actions makes you absolute scum, especially when that responsibilty is a young child.
:tu

My SIL's ex pays exactly zero child support for their kid, who is still young enough to be in diapers. On top of that, HE occasionally asks HER for money - for the energy bill he "forgot" to pay, for the groceries he "hasn't bought yet", etc. She's flat broke and trying to get through classes for job training - he spends every non-working minute sitting on his behind drinking and playing video games. That guy's such an asshole.

[SpursWoman]

But sometimes the child support isn't enough. Anything is better than nothing, but children are expensive and in my case, when they were born, I was counting on the fact that there would be 2 incomes supporting them, not 1 1/3 incomes. Especially when the ex bitches that I'm asking for too much. I'm making all the sacrifice, putting a roof over their head (not living with mom), food on their plates and clothes on their back.

The least you can do is take half of the monetary responsibility since you've abandoned all the emotional and mental responsibility of raising children.

My kids are 14 & 15 and I will tell you from my own personal experience, although somewhat sad, there will be not a small amount of (juvenile?) satisfaction when your children get old enough to recognize what's really going on and start to distance themselves from the deadbeat parent ... and it will be from their own determination of the other parent's lack of responsibility and/or character. Kids can be pretty smart ... give them some credit. As long as you do the best you can emotionally & financially and not constantly pull the martyr card, they will be just fine.

I've received about $600 total over the span of 10 years or so and according to the TAG website he is in arrears of $52,680.28 ... I'd be pretty happy with $100/week. But I am obviously not holding my breath. :lol

[Nathan Explosion]

My kids are 14 & 15 and I will tell you from my own personal experience, although somewhat sad, there will be not a small amount of (juvenile?) satisfaction when your children get old enough to recognize what's really going on and start to distance themselves from the deadbeat parent ... and it will be from their own determination of the other parent's lack of responsibility and/or character. Kids can be pretty smart ... give them some credit. As long as you do the best you can emotionally & financially and not constantly pull the martyr card, they will be just fine.

I've received about $600 total over the span of 10 years or so and according to the TAG website he is in arrears of $52,680.28 ... I'd be pretty happy with $100/week. But I am obviously not holding my breath. :lol

My son is starting to see it. I warned her that while our kids still love her (she is their mom after all), they don't really like her. My son gets pretty angry with her, and he's 4. So I get that. My problem really is that my kids are upset and it upsets me. And it doesn't have to be that way. I don't give a shit if she comes or goes, but I get really upset when my kids get affected.

As for the $100, it comes to $300 a month because she has to pay rent the 4th week as do I. It helps, but right now my car needs a lot of work done and I have to have it running smooth because I do a lot of driving, to work, babysitters while I'm at work, the store, appointments etc...

A bad running car will cost you more money than a smooth running one. If could get an extra $100 a month for say 3 months, I'd be able to have that car running smoothly in no time.

[Drachen]

My kids are 14 & 15 and I will tell you from my own personal experience, although somewhat sad, there will be not a small amount of (juvenile?) satisfaction when your children get old enough to recognize what's really going on and start to distance themselves from the deadbeat parent ... and it will be from their own determination of the other parent's lack of responsibility and/or character. Kids can be pretty smart ... give them some credit. As long as you do the best you can emotionally & financially and not constantly pull the martyr card, they will be just fine.

I've received about $600 total over the span of 10 years or so and according to the TAG website he is in arrears of $52,680.28 ... I'd be pretty happy with $100/week. But I am obviously not holding my breath. :lol

My wife's ex was in jail at the time of the child support determination so it was based off of minimum wage in 1997. Even considering that, he is in arrears about 40k. She hasn't seen him since 2000, and about 3 years ago, he called her parent's house looking for her because he wanted to teach his daughter about her irish lineage (my wife had started receiving $76.80 checks on a bi-weekly basis about 3 weeks prior to this call). Her mother told him that if he would like to she would pass the message on to her, but that she was dating someone who is proud of his Irish heritage (me) and that this person was bringing her up to speed. He got all pissed off and said "OH WELL I HOPE THEY ARE ENJOYING ALL OF THAT MONEY I AM SENDING THEM" (we got some extra cheese on our whopper with ALL THAT CASH!" Then he quit his job and moved back out of state.

[thispego]

But sometimes the child support isn't enough. Anything is better than nothing, but children are expensive and in my case, when they were born, I was counting on the fact that there would be 2 incomes supporting them, not 1 1/3 incomes. Especially when the ex bitches that I'm asking for too much. I'm making all the sacrifice, putting a roof over their head (not living with mom), food on their plates and clothes on their back.

The least you can do is take half of the monetary responsibility since you've abandoned all the emotional and mental responsibility of raising children.

You're asking for monetary support from your ex? The state should be requiring her to pay you ~20% of her total income, maybe more if it's 2 kids. $400 a month doesnt seem like near the amount she should be paying you. Is she legally the non-custodial parent of both children?

[Andrew Cunanan]

If we still practiced Eugenics in this country then most of these questions would be answered.

[thispego]

:tu

My SIL's ex pays exactly zero child support for their kid, who is still young enough to be in diapers. On top of that, HE occasionally asks HER for money - for the energy bill he "forgot" to pay, for the groceries he "hasn't bought yet", etc. She's flat broke and trying to get through classes for job training - he spends every non-working minute sitting on his behind drinking and playing video games. That guy's such an asshole.

If he is her ex and doesnt have any parental rights, what is she doing still talki g to him? Hopefully she isnt also loaning him this money hes begging for. What a low life.

[Wild Cobra]

why isn't having a kid and not being there for it NOT a crime?
I think it should be. I call it Child Abuse. That is, unless the father is such a piece of shit, he should already be in jail.

[Wild Cobra]

you'd be forcing adults into marriages/living arrangements that they don't want. How is that constitutional?
I would say the government should be able to enforce such an arrangement if it keeps the family out of the government coffers.

[Wild Cobra]

Child support is pretty good penance for people who are Selfish enough to not raise kids that they brought into this world. Deadbeats who dont pay child support are the ones that shOuld end up behind bars. Taking 0 responsibility for your actions makes you absolute scum, especially when that responsibilty is a young child.
As long as the father tries to be a father, well, shit happens. I took the intent of the OP to mean those who think of their offspring as a burden. Notice he said "absent fathers."

I say, man up. Take responsibility for your actions, or you are a piece of scum who doesn't deserve to be part of society.

[Nathan Explosion]

You're asking for monetary support from your ex? The state should be requiring her to pay you ~20% of her total income, maybe more if it's 2 kids. $400 a month doesnt seem like near the amount she should be paying you. Is she legally the non-custodial parent of both children?

You see, here's the thing. I talked about raising kids by myself and needing some support to pay all of my bills, right? And I talked about needing to tune up my car because gas is expensive and it's mileage is dropping, but it wasn't an extravagant amount, just a little more than I can afford at the moment.

So where in all of my post does it say I can afford a lawyer? That's the problem. Until I can save up enough to get a lawyer to do what needs to be done, all I can go on is what I can get from her.

When I get a lawyer, you bet your ass I'm going to milk her for every dime I can get. I'd be less pissed off if she actually showed more commitment and sacrifice for her kids. As I've told my friends, I wasn't like this. I'm a VERY forgiving person who has given her many chances (double digits) to do the right thing by her kids and be more involved. She made me like this when she refused to sacrifice any part of her personal life to be more involved.

So for now I get what I can with the hopes that either she'll shape up and be a better mother, or I can lawyer up and get everything I need to raise the kids on my own.

(See, even in that last statement, I showed that I'm still offering her a chance to make it better.)

[Nathan Explosion]

If he is her ex and doesnt have any parental rights, what is she doing still talki g to him? Hopefully she isnt also loaning him this money hes begging for. What a low life.

It's complicated. For me, I'd do anything for my kids. And if they wanted to see their mom or talk to her, and it made them happy, I'd do it, despite how I feel about her.

There may be more to the story, and that could be a part of it.

[Das Texan]

The court system is beyond fucked up when it comes to the father being the legal guardian.

That much I do know.


The fact that there isnt some national database for this shit and that parents can simply disappear and not be 'found' because they move to another state is retarded.

Government at its most wasteful finest though.

[ploto]

My kids are 14 & 15 and I will tell you from my own personal experience, although somewhat sad, there will be not a small amount of satisfaction when your children get old enough to recognize what's really going on and start to distance themselves from the deadbeat parent ... and it will be from their own determination of the other parent's lack of responsibility and/or character. Kids can be pretty smart ... give them some credit. As long as you do the best you can emotionally & financially and not constantly pull the martyr card, they will be just fine.

My ex still does not get that I never had to say a word. Our child figured it out all on his own. I will never forget the day he told me-- "Mom, when you first got divorced, I wanted you and dad to get back together. Every kid wants their family together. But it did not take me long to see that we were both better off without him here, and I never wanted you to get back with him ever again." Sad, but true.

[thispego]

You see, here's the thing. I talked about raising kids by myself and needing some support to pay all of my bills, right? And I talked about needing to tune up my car because gas is expensive and it's mileage is dropping, but it wasn't an extravagant amount, just a little more than I can afford at the moment.

So where in all of my post does it say I can afford a lawyer? That's the problem. Until I can save up enough to get a lawyer to do what needs to be done, all I can go on is what I can get from her.

When I get a lawyer, you bet your ass I'm going to milk her for every dime I can get. I'd be less pissed off if she actually showed more commitment and sacrifice for her kids. As I've told my friends, I wasn't like this. I'm a VERY forgiving person who has given her many chances (double digits) to do the right thing by her kids and be more involved. She made me like this when she refused to sacrifice any part of her personal life to be more involved.

So for now I get what I can with the hopes that either she'll shape up and be a better mother, or I can lawyer up and get everything I need to raise the kids on my own.

(See, even in that last statement, I showed that I'm still offering her a chance to make it better.)
Yiu obviously want her back, but if she is being a selfish bitch then you are waaaaay better off without her, accept it now and yiu'll be better off.

So, seeing as how she is a major selfish bitch, call a lawyer, tell them the situation, that bitch is going to owe you thousands in back support. That would coverthe lawyer expenses alone. All the dumbass lawyer has to do is draft the papers. God i hate lawyers, they arent worth near what they charge.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

God i hate lawyers, they arent worth near what they charge.
Especially divorce lawyers. Divorce lawyers are basically the gutter rats of the legal community. They push their clients buttons as much as possible to spark anger at his/her ex, which causes the divorce to drag out longer so the lawyer has more billable hours, but in exchange makes it a worse process for the parents but also the kids because of how much the kids have to hear from one parent how much he/she hates the other.

[desflood]

If he is her ex and doesnt have any parental rights, what is she doing still talki g to him? Hopefully she isnt also loaning him this money hes begging for. What a low life.
Eh... I love my SIL, but to be honest she's one of those people who has a really hard time letting go of relationships, even the bad ones. Problem is, he knows this about her also. He strings her along and gets what he wants and it gives her the hope that they might get back together. Hopefully that never happens - they were a disaster together. It's all right though - I learned just this afternoon that he will have to begin paying his child support, or the state will come for him. Ha ha, pig.

[mingus]

I don't see how having a parent around that is there under the threat of imprisonment is really going to do the kid much better. It's tough enough for the parents who wanted to be parents. Just seems it would create a lot of resentment for the kid and make abuse (or worse) more likely.

making it illegal to have a kid and not be there for it as a father figure/mother stop stupid teenagers and/or deadbeats from making the decision to have unprotected sex and father a child in the first place.

this is how i could see it working:

if you father or mother a child and don't want to raise, you go to jail. i don't know for how long, but you go to jail. but not just any jail. it's a jail, or correctional facility that is specifically made for dads and moms who don't have the tools to raise a child. in this facility they are "corrected" and they gain those tools and after a certain amount of time and parental development if they show they have been corrected, they can go back with daughter or son.

if for some reason, even after a long time, the person has not learned in this jail or correctional facility or whatever you want to call it, they can still leave. like if say after somewhere b/w 3-4 years there he/she hasn't "grown up", they can leave. BUT if they make the same mistake again and have a kid with someone else and aren't there for it again, they get life in prison.

[mingus]

As long as the father tries to be a father, well, shit happens. I took the intent of the OP to mean those who think of their offspring as a burden. Notice he said "absent fathers."

I say, man up. Take responsibility for your actions, or you are a piece of scum who doesn't deserve to be part of society.

exactly. i don't understand why we as a society agree with the current way of doing this things, or child support. why is a sum of money sufficient compensation. that's just an absolute injustice to the fatherless kid.

[TwAnKiEs]

I am the custodial Parent of my two girls after my divorce. Since then the ex has become a sinking ship and is past due almost $5,000. She wont even buy them a bday/x-mas/ etc card let alone see them. I'm stomping that ass though. She went to jail once and looking for more jail time if she does't come up w/ $1,300 next month. Sad thing is that they aren't even five years old. She would rather date a registered sex offender than be a mother, but its whatever.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I would say the government should be able to enforce such an arrangement if it keeps the family out of the government coffers.

is forcing people to live together one of them small gov't, libertarian principles I've been hearing about?

[TwAnKiEs]

you're just mad because the sex offender is slamming that ass

lol there's other ass to slam TBH

[Blake]

why isn't having a kid and not being their for it NOT a crime?


I think it should be. I call it Child Abuse. That is, unless the father is such a piece of shit, he should already be in jail.

how many hours of parent/kid time a week/month/year would be ok for you in order to keep mom/dad out of jail?

[DarkReign]

Dumbest fucking idea I have ever heard.

RG said it best, more cost to the taxpayer with non-violent offenders filling an already bloated prison system.

Youre never going to stop people from fucking and having unwanted children. Making the activity illegal will be less effective than drugs being illegal.

Moreover, who the fuck are you moral police to decide whats right and what isnt? Mind your fucking business, tools.

Fucking moral legislation, the bane of American existence.

[ploto]

Child support is enforced (at least supposedly) but visitation is not. I had to explain that to a friend who did not understand that the dad does not have to come get the kid, he just has the right to do so.

[mingus]

Dumbest fucking idea I have ever heard.

RG said it best, more cost to the taxpayer with non-violent offenders filling an already bloated prison system.

Youre never going to stop people from fucking and having unwanted children. Making the activity illegal will be less effective than drugs being illegal.

Moreover, who the fuck are you moral police to decide whats right and what isnt? Mind your fucking business, tools.

Fucking moral legislation, the bane of American existence.

-as far as the nonviolent offender part... well it's a shame and i think drug legalization (ie for pot) would go a long way to helping that problem. but that's a topic for another day.

-it's not a comparable situation to drugs. you can hide drugs, and the people who know you do drugs often enable you and might even do them with you. there are easy ways to evade the law in the case of drugs. father a child and aren't there for it though? then you've got a whole different situation. a lot of people who'd turn you in. it would be much harder to hide from the law.

-as for all that other shit you said in the last paragraph about moral legislation... there's something seriously wrong with our society if it thinks money is an apt substitute for a father. it's a shame you don't hold that opinion and arent compelled to do anything about it. accountability is important to me.

[SpursStalker]

LOL

Yea lock up the parents that will teach them everything they need to know ...

:rolleyes

[JoeChalupa]

I can't believe how much some people owe for support. I know it doesn't make sense to lock them up but damn. That just shows the kids that you don't have to pay and can get away with it. Garnish them wages!!

[SpursWoman]

Garnish them wages!!


They have to actually work and have reportable income for that to happen. :lol

[baseline bum]

-as far as the nonviolent offender part... well it's a shame and i think drug legalization (ie for pot) would go a long way to helping that problem. but that's a topic for another day.

-it's not a comparable situation to drugs. you can hide drugs, and the people who know you do drugs often enable you and might even do them with you. there are easy ways to evade the law in the case of drugs. father a child and aren't there for it though? then you've got a whole different situation. a lot of people who'd turn you in. it would be much harder to hide from the law.

-as for all that other shit you said in the last paragraph about moral legislation... there's something seriously wrong with our society if it thinks money is an apt substitute for a father. it's a shame you don't hold that opinion and arent compelled to do anything about it. accountability is important to me.

So then you're fine with taking the place of the father when it comes to financially supporting the kid? And then financially supporting the father too?

[Blake]

-as far as the nonviolent offender part... well it's a shame and i think drug legalization (ie for pot) would go a long way to helping that problem. but that's a topic for another day.

-it's not a comparable situation to drugs. you can hide drugs, and the people who know you do drugs often enable you and might even do them with you. there are easy ways to evade the law in the case of drugs. father a child and aren't there for it though? then you've got a whole different situation. a lot of people who'd turn you in. it would be much harder to hide from the law.

-as for all that other shit you said in the last paragraph about moral legislation... there's something seriously wrong with our society if it thinks money is an apt substitute for a father. it's a shame you don't hold that opinion and arent compelled to do anything about it. accountability is important to me.

how many international businessmen and military personnel are going to go to jail in your world?

[Drachen]

They have to actually work and have reportable income for that to happen. :lol

Yep, my step-daughter's father just moved out of state (joined the carnival actually when my step-daughter was 3 - LOL). I came into the picture in July 2006 and I had already spent more on her in the first 6 months than he had in her first 9 years. Our State AG can't find him. When my wife followed up about 5 or 6 years ago on this they said "Ok we will help you, find his address for us and we will do what we can"

[leemajors]

The entire child support/custody system needs a massive overhaul. Currently I have my daughter well over half of the time (about a month more on average per year) yet I had a snowball's chance in hell of getting primary and have to pay $467/mo in child support that hopefully goes towards her. I understand why it is the way it is, but society is radically different than it was when you generally had a one working person household.

[jack sommerset]

I say anyone wanting a kid should apply. Come up with some rules, have them sign a contract and lets see what happens.

[baseline bum]

Even a Catholic priest?

[mingus]

So then you're fine with taking the place of the father when it comes to financially supporting the kid? And then financially supporting the father too?

yeah i'm fine with financially supporting the father or mother for a couple of years if they can get corrected. maybe then they're responsible enough to make their own money and they and their kids and their kids's kids aren't living off tax money fifty year down the road. the current system doesn't help the situation, in a lot of ways it enables it. in the long run i think having more accountable people would decrease taxes from what the are currently.

[mingus]

how many international businessmen and military personnel are going to go to jail in your world?

seriously, you're comparing their situation to a deadbeat's? c'mon man.

[Wild Cobra]

is forcing people to live together one of them small gov't, libertarian principles I've been hearing about?
No, it's doing time for the deed.

Sex can have consequences, and it should be the burden of those responsible. Not the tax payers.

I am of the libertarian ideal that does not include anarchy. Responsibility for our own freedom. When we abuse that freedom to the point it affects others, I am all for appropriate laws to protect others.

[Wild Cobra]

The entire child support/custody system needs a massive overhaul. Currently I have my daughter well over half of the time (about a month more on average per year) yet I had a snowball's chance in hell of getting primary and have to pay $467/mo in child support that hopefully goes towards her. I understand why it is the way it is, but society is radically different than it was when you generally had a one working person household.
If you and her mother both have incomes, the monthly amount is suppose to be apportioned, calculating both incomes and time spent at each place. If it isn't, you have cause for it to be recalculated.

[DMC]

so i've been thinking about this and i don't understand why absent fathers just have to pay a sum of money... according ot the law, it's and acceptable compensation. i don't agree with that. kids should have a dad and a mom. it is essential for the development of the kid to have two parents. it's an inustice to the kid that the father or mother isn't in prison for not being there for him/her. if the mom isn't around, she should be locked up. if the dad, he should be locked up. why isn't having a kid and not being their for it NOT a crime? we treat this too nonchalantly. maybe someone can give me some insight and in the process reveal my ignorance.

Insight:

1. Adults have to get away from each other else someone puts a gun to everyone's head then to their own.

2. No one is guaranteed a nice family, life itself is questionable until you breathe on your own.

3. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

4. Marriages are legal unions and divorce is a legal end to that contract. The responsibility is to fund, so you can move out of state and make payments on Bunky instead of watching Bunky grow.

5. For the same reason you can send a kid off to a boarding school. As long as the kid has a legal guardian and funding, all is well. Law doesn't address "ought". It addresses needs. Child welfare isn't about mommy and daddy. It's about having what the child needs to survive.

6. Locking him up would ensure he's not there.

[Blake]

seriously, you're comparing their situation to a deadbeat's? c'mon man.

You haven't defined "not being there for it"

[DMC]

You haven't defined "not being there for it"

100% legit statement.

[Trainwreck2100]

As a country who embraces science it would be foolish to dismiss man's biological need to create offspring. It's not our fault, it's biology. It is the woman's biological job to find a suitable mate to ensure quality of life for the offspring. They are the one's that aren't doing their job.

[Strike]

As a country who embraces science it would be foolish to dismiss man's biological need to create offspring. It's not our fault, it's biology. It is the woman's biological job to find a suitable mate to ensure quality of life for the offspring. They are the one's that aren't doing their job.

http://files.sharenator.com/So_much_win_RE_Memebase_22-s517x600-167010.png

[leemajors]

If you and her mother both have incomes, the monthly amount is suppose to be apportioned, calculating both incomes and time spent at each place. If it isn't, you have cause for it to be recalculated.

Not in TX.

[Oh, Gee!!]

No, it's doing time for the deed.

Sex can have consequences, and it should be the burden of those responsible. Not the tax payers.

I am of the libertarian ideal that does not include anarchy. Responsibility for our own freedom. When we abuse that freedom to the point it affects others, I am all for appropriate laws to protect others.

you're missing the point. Our law already places the burden of child-rearing on the parents. A non-custodial parent can be court-ordered to pay support to the child, provide health insurance for the child, and take an active role in their child's life by visting regularly. Taxpayers are not bearing any burden when a father (or mother) who is not the primary custodian lives up to these requirements. When the non-custodial doesn't live up them, he or she can be jailed or have their parental rights stripped. what the OP wants (it seems) is to force adults into living arrangements that one or both parties might not want. That is stupid, and so are you.

[DarkReign]

-as far as the nonviolent offender part... well it's a shame and i think drug legalization (ie for pot) would go a long way to helping that problem. but that's a topic for another day.

No, its a topic for right now seeing as you want to add even more prisoners to an already bloated prison system.

On top of that, you want more crime and punishment for non-violent offenders.


-it's not a comparable situation to drugs. you can hide drugs, and the people who know you do drugs often enable you and might even do them with you. there are easy ways to evade the law in the case of drugs. father a child and aren't there for it though? then you've got a whole different situation. a lot of people who'd turn you in. it would be much harder to hide from the law.

Its exactly like drugs in that there is no conceivable way to prevent them from proliferating any society.

You propose making unprotected sex illegal should it produce a child, essentially. Which on the scale of "How Fucking Stupid Can We Get?", this ranks above (ie worse) than China's one-child policy.

In case you dont know, in China, should a woman become pregnant with her second child, its routine that said child is left to die somewhere for fear of being prosecuted by the Chinese government.

You would be re-creating this exact brand of barbarism. People are going to have unprotected sex, from the beginning of humanity to the end. No law can prevent this and its results (ie babies, STDs, etc).

So what your dumbass law would do is force less than scrupulous individuals who in the past would have only been absentee parents to choose between a. going to prison, or parent-camp, whatever the fuck idea you had or b. make the baby's existence go away. Whether its adoption, abortion, abandonment or even murder.

Your idea is dumb only because you havent thought of its consequences.


-as for all that other shit you said in the last paragraph about moral legislation... there's something seriously wrong with our society if it thinks money is an apt substitute for a father. it's a shame you don't hold that opinion and arent compelled to do anything about it. accountability is important to me.

...and youre naive to think a society can force people to be responsible by force of law. Stigma works, societal pressure works, education works best...incarceration for non-violent offenses, otoh, has proven to almost never work.

You dream of a world where you can force other humans to be better humans. Youre either too young, too dumb or too sheltered to know how completely fuck-all wrong that is. You probably believe that by creating consequences for people's actions that this will somehow make them see the error of their ways and reconsider.

Some fractional amount of society, this might work. But for the other 80-90% of people, it doesnt mean shit and doesnt change anything. All youve done is wasted your time and resources with tools that are by their nature incapable of dealing with such a "problem".

Analogy; Youre essentially using a slingshot to send satellites into space based on the cost efficiency vs 3-stage rockets. Sounds good, doesnt mean its going to work.

[mingus]

You dream of a world where you can force other humans to be better humans. Youre either too young, too dumb or too sheltered to know how completely fuck-all wrong that is. You probably believe that by creating consequences for people's actions that this will somehow make them see the error of their ways and reconsider.

Some fractional amount of society, this might work. But for the other 80-90% of people, it doesnt mean shit and doesnt change anything. All youve done is wasted your time and resources with tools that are by their nature incapable of dealing with such a "problem".

consequences don't force people to change the way they behave?

definitely not all the time, but you're basically saying that they never work, which is unfounded and i completely disagree with that.

laws don't always work though, of course. because it's easy to evade the law in a lot pof cases. take drunk driving or doing drugs. people do those things all of the time. but they get away with it because it's so damn easy to. like i mentioned in my first post. people who do coke, shoot heroin, etc, (as with drunk driving) surround themselves with people enable them to do those things and who often take part in those same activities. there are no consequences, unless you get caught. there's not a victim.

but take a pregnant women though who has been knocked up and has to raise a child on her own. i know plenty of these women (and one guy) and they hate the shit of the unsupportive father. they, and the kid, are victims, and, at least the ones i know would not hesitate to go to the police if it were though of as a crime. i would say many women who have the same experience have the same sentiment toward the absent father. and i don't have the stats to back up how many country-wide think that way and i wont make up imaginary stats either. escaping the law isn't nearly as easy if your a deadbeat dad. it's not snorting coke with friends and it's not driving home drunk after a party, both in enabling environments.

i don't believe for a second that a law that would be so hard to evade would not make a guy whose interest is just to fuck from putting on a condom, when he otherwise wouldn't. there is no consequence for absent dad today. no matter how many times he's hear about unprotected sex, he's going to not use a condom even though they're so readily available because there's no reason to. having a kid is treated as just a bump in the road. something a monthly payment of money can pay for, and a lot of times times those payments aren't even made because the deadbeat doesn't have a job in the first place and can't pay for child support. in which case there is virtually no consequence.

[mingus]

also, as far as the one child policy in China:

abortion is legal in China. not sure what murdered babies your talking about. but they could have been murdered because of their gender. the reason you assume they are murdered is wrong at least partly. in China, it's preferable to have a boy rather than a girl and there's no pre-birth sex-determination in China either for fear that abortions would be made on that basis. a lot of women kill their child if it's female after birth.