If Kidd wins a ring does he become 4th best PG ever?

[nkdlunch]

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Thomas
4. Kidd
5. Stockton

???

[in2deep]

Why not? I would not rank Stockton over him.

[endrity]

Bob Cousy? Earl The Pearl?

Just saying to be honest, I am not really sure either. But Cousy should be somewhere in there. He was the first ballhandling magician in the league, and he won a lot as well.

I am sure CP3 will be in that conversation too

[resistanze]

Kidd >> Stockton

[ambchang]

Stockton has #3 locked. Can't blame him for having a choker pedophile as his best teammate.

[Giuseppe]

Stockton has #3 locked. Can't blame him for having a choker pedophile as his best teammate.

Stockton was a selfish stat hog. He was given grace because of his skin pigment.

[resistanze]

Giuseppe

[CavsSuperFan]

Count the rings...Get real...
1- D Fisher
2- Magic

[ALVAREZ6]

Count the rings...Get real...
1- D Fisher
2- Magic

Fisher and Magic both have 5 rings.

1.a. Magic
1.b. Fisher

[jjktkk]

At this stage of his career, Kidd, while still a solid player, is not impacting a game like earlier in his career, so I don't think winning a ring this late in his career will change his legacy.

[Phillip]

Pretty damn good list. Nash is pretty deserving of being in the top 5 as well.

I would also say Nash is the most offensively skilled PG in NBA history. Dude is just an offensive machine.

It would really be hard to rank the next 5 after Magic, out of Robertson, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, and Zeke. Depends a lot on what your team needs are. Nash or Stockton if you need offensive floor generals that can score if needed. Zeke if you want a shoot-first type of PG that creates assists with his scoring ability as opposed to vision, discipline and IQ like Nash/Stockton. Kidd and Robertson are probably the most adaptable, while not quite as skilled offensively as Nash, Stockton, or Zeke.

People might bash me a bit on being hesitant on Robertson, but there is no questioning that he was the Wilt Chamberlain of guards... simply came way ahead of his time, and dominated in an era that was not equipped to defend him. Great player, no question, but I strongly doubt he averages 30/10/10 in the league from the 80s onward. Also people don't realize how many minutes a game he played, ranging from 42-45 every year for a long time, while its uncommon these days to find superstars who play 40+ a night for a whole season. Very easy to rack up more stats with the extra 5-7 minutes a night.

[Phillip]

At this stage of his career, Kidd, while still a solid player, is not impacting a game like earlier in his career, so I don't think winning a ring this late in his career will change his legacy.

Hes not the #1 guy, but he is still a VERY important part of this team. He has done a great job of guarding guys like Kobe, Durant, Wade, and Lebron in late game situations, helps create easy buckets for teammates to take pressure off of Dirk, grabs key rebounds, and hits shots when it matters most. The fact that he is this old, and is finding ways to get the job done, especially in defending guys like Kobe and Wade late, is very impressive and should speak volumes as to what kind of a player Kidd is. IMO, while less flashy and noticable, its arguably every bit as impressive as what he was doing in NJ.

[Muser]

Pretty damn good list. Nash is pretty deserving of being in the top 5 as well.

I would also say Nash is the most offensively skilled PG in NBA history. Dude is just an offensive machine.

It would really be hard to rank the next 5 after Magic, out of Robertson, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, and Zeke. Depends a lot on what your team needs are. Nash or Stockton if you need offensive floor generals that can score if needed. Zeke if you want a shoot-first type of PG that creates assists with his scoring ability as opposed to vision, discipline and IQ like Nash/Stockton. Kidd and Robertson are probably the most adaptable, while not quite as skilled offensively as Nash, Stockton, or Zeke.

People might bash me a bit on being hesitant on Robertson, but there is no questioning that he was the Wilt Chamberlain of guards... simply came way ahead of his time, and dominated in an era that was not equipped to defend him. Great player, no question, but I strongly doubt he averages 30/10/10 in the league from the 80s onward. Also people don't realize how many minutes a game he played, ranging from 42-45 every year for a long time, while its uncommon these days to find superstars who play 40+ a night for a whole season. Very easy to rack up more stats with the extra 5-7 minutes a night.

Edit: My bad, good post :tu

[jjktkk]

Hes not the #1 guy, but he is still a VERY important part of this team. He has done a great job of guarding guys like Kobe, Durant, Wade, and Lebron in late game situations, helps create easy buckets for teammates to take pressure off of Dirk, grabs key rebounds, and hits shots when it matters most. The fact that he is this old, and is finding ways to get the job done, especially in defending guys like Kobe and Wade late, is very impressive and should speak volumes as to what kind of a player Kidd is. IMO, while less flashy and noticable, its arguably every bit as impressive as what he was doing in NJ.

Agree. What I was trying to get across, was Kidd's age preventing him from impacting a game like earlier in his career. One thing that I have been impressed with Kidd, was his ability to develop his jumper late in his career. I can't recall a NBA player being able to do that like Kidd has been able to.

[Dex]

You forgot about Parker. :lol

[Phillip]

Agree. What I was trying to get across, was Kidd's age preventing him from impacting a game like earlier in his career. One thing that I have been impressed with Kidd, was his ability to develop his jumper late in his career. I can't recall a NBA player being able to do that like Kidd has been able to.

MJ developed a much more consistent jumper late in his career, but yeah, not too many have been able to do so like Kidd has.

[Brazil]

You forgot about Parker. :lol

not part of the discussion but dude deserves the respect for what he has achieved

[ambchang]

Stockton was a selfish stat hog. He was given grace because of his skin pigment.

You are talking about him like a white Marbury.

Stockton's assist totals were skeptical at best (those stat keepers, I tell you), but he was willing to do whatever it takes to win, and his defense is probably the best out of the bunch.

[TJastal]

Jason Kidd can still defend and rebound incredibly well for his size and age, although Wade chewed him up and spit him out in game 3 (Wade is pretty much doing that to everybody atm though)

I was impressed with his defense on LeRobin last night, about as good as can be expected.

[hater]

no way Stockton was a better defender than Kidd

[Phillip]

no way Stockton was a better defender than Kidd

+1

i was wondering what possessed him to say Stockton > Kidd on defense

maybe the only better defensive PG ever was Gary Payton.

[hater]

probably the same reason ppl say CP3 is better defender than Kidd. # of steals * @ of flops + referee help :rolleyes

Payton could guard quick guys but Kidd can guard big guys

[ElNono]

I have him 5th:

1. Magic
2. Manu
3. Oscar
4. Thomas
5. Kidd

[TJastal]

I have him 5th:

1. Magic
2. Manu
3. Oscar
4. Thomas
5. Kidd

Did you have a brain fart in there somewhere, El Nono?

[ElNono]

Did you have a brain fart in there somewhere, El Nono?

Why?

[TJastal]

Why?

Manu has always played shooting guard, why rate him amongst point guards?

[ElNono]

Manu has always played shooting guard, why rate him amongst point guards?

He's been our official backup PG for a while... heck, he's been running the offense at end of games since basically '05 onwards.

Guys like him or Magic don't really have a fixed position. Calling them a PG or SG is more a formality than anything. Obviously Magic was the more complete player.

I think the top 3 picks in the list are pretty solid. You could talk me into switching Thomas for Payton/Stockton, and whether Kidd overall is better than Nash overall. Debatable, tbh.

[Sportstudi]

He's been our official backup PG for a while... heck, he's been running the offense at end of games since basically '05 onwards.

Guys like him or Magic don't really have a fixed position. Calling them a PG or SG is more a formality than anything. Obviously Magic was the more complete player.

I think the top 3 picks in the list are pretty solid. You could talk me into switching Thomas for Payton/Stockton, and whether Kidd overall is better than Nash overall. Debatable, tbh.

So, in your opinion Manu was a better "PG" than Oscar, Thomas, Stockton, Kidd or Nash? Seriously???
In his prime he was a very good SG, I don't deny that, but in terms of a PG he wasn't anywhere near these guys.

[badfish22]

When spurfan tries to troll, they just wind up trolling other spurfans.

This is gnsf.

[rayjayjohnson]

I have him 5th:

1. Magic
2. Manu
3. Oscar
4. Thomas
5. Kidd


:lmao manu better than stockton.

:lmao manu on that list to begin with.

[ElNono]

When spurfan tries to troll, they just wind up trolling other spurfans.

This is gnsf.

:lol

[ElNono]

So, in your opinion Manu is a better "PG" than Oscar, Thomas, Stockton, Kidd or Nash? Seriously???
In his prime he was a very good SG, I don't deny that, but in terms of a PG he wasn't anywhere near these guys.

I don't know about seriously. But yes, that's what I said.

:lol

[ElNono]

:lmao manu better than stockton.

:lmao manu on that list to begin with.

sup ray... how's the irrelevant summer going?

[Sportstudi]

I don't know about seriously. But yes, that's what I said.

:lol

Good to know :lol

Got me for a second :toast

[Brazil]

:lmao manu better than stockton.

:lmao manu on that list to begin with.

:lmao 2502 posts and not getting it

[endrity]

Yo, for real, there is very little love for Bob Cousy on this thread.

[rayjayjohnson]

sup ray... how's the irrelevant summer going?

not bad. yours?

bounced by wc finalist > bounced by 8 seed.

[rayjayjohnson]

lol @ spurs done as a franchise

[Dex]

lol @ spurs done as a franchise

lol @ nuggets never even got started

[rayjayjohnson]

lol u mad?

we got youth moving forward.

you got an athritis-riddled zombie, and slimey frenchman, a balding argo and a soft-as-shit brazillian.

[Dex]

lol u mad?

we got youth moving forward.

you got an athritis-riddled zombie, and slimey frenchman, a balding argo and a soft-as-shit brazillian.

we got 4 rings. :lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:

[rayjayjohnson]

3 and a half. everyone knows 1999 doesn't matter

[dunkman]

Magic, Oscar, Isaiah, Stock and perhaps Frazier would still be better.

[ElNono]

not bad. yours?

pretty good, actually, tbh.

[Spursfan092120]

3 and a half. everyone knows 1999 doesn't matter

Looks like it matters here...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Spurs-trophies20090312.jpg

[nevitt_&_smrek]

Don't forget Cousy, Frazier, Cheeks, Archibald. Maybe even Mark Jackson.

Kidd is one of the most overrated players ever.

[dirk4mvp]

Don't forget Cousy, Frazier, Cheeks, Archibald. Maybe even Mark Jackson :lmao.

Kidd is one of the most overrated players ever.

great post.

[Giuseppe]

Don't forget Cousy, Frazier, Cheeks, Archibald. Maybe even Mark Jackson.

Kidd is one of the most overrated players ever.

But, when the end came for him, he reinvented his game to where he had to be dealt with again, in a sustained & different way. Then this playoff season he mentally prepared himself in a dispassionate way that has enabled him to lead that team thru 3+ playoff sessions.

He's totally lost in the game. I think he's wonderful.

[dirk4mvp]

Giuseppe

[nevitt_&_smrek]

great post.

Kidd sucks. I've never understood the media hype surrounding this guy. It's really a shame trash like this have to tag along and steal any of Dirk's glory if the Mavs win.

[DAF86]

When spurfan tries to troll, they just wind up trolling other spurfans.

This is gnsf.

It's easier to troll Spursfans in a Spurs forum, tbh.

I'm pretty sure I could generate 5+ pages of responses with only one comment on that crappy Mavs forum.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Stockton was a selfish stat hog. He was given grace because of his skin pigment.
The muthafuckin goods tbh

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yo, for real, there is very little love for Bob Cousy on this thread.
That's because he'd be a D-leaguer in today's NBA

[badfish22]

It's easier to troll Spursfans in a Spurs forum, tbh.

I'm pretty sure I could generate 5+ pages of responses with only one comment on that crappy Mavs forum.

:cry Could you really?

[DAF86]

:cry Could you really?

I don't know, I may get banned.

[jdiggy0424]

That's because he'd be a D-leaguer in today's NBA

lol cousy being a d leaguer. You're delusional.

[jdiggy0424]

Pretty damn good list. Nash is pretty deserving of being in the top 5 as well.

I would also say Nash is the most offensively skilled PG in NBA history. Dude is just an offensive machine.

It would really be hard to rank the next 5 after Magic, out of Robertson, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, and Zeke. Depends a lot on what your team needs are. Nash or Stockton if you need offensive floor generals that can score if needed. Zeke if you want a shoot-first type of PG that creates assists with his scoring ability as opposed to vision, discipline and IQ like Nash/Stockton. Kidd and Robertson are probably the most adaptable, while not quite as skilled offensively as Nash, Stockton, or Zeke.

People might bash me a bit on being hesitant on Robertson, but there is no questioning that he was the Wilt Chamberlain of guards... simply came way ahead of his time, and dominated in an era that was not equipped to defend him. Great player, no question, but I strongly doubt he averages 30/10/10 in the league from the 80s onward. Also people don't realize how many minutes a game he played, ranging from 42-45 every year for a long time, while its uncommon these days to find superstars who play 40+ a night for a whole season. Very easy to rack up more stats with the extra 5-7 minutes a night.

I have to disagree about Isiah Thomas. Next to Magic and Payton he's one of the most complete point guards ever, with Paul cracking this list in the next 5 years or so. If i wanted to build a team, my ranking of pg's would be Magic, Isiah, Robertson, Payton and Stockton in that order, although Chris Paul's play in the playoffs has me reconsidering Stockton on the list.

[rayjayjohnson]

pretty good, actually, tbh.

:lol same actually

[resistanze]

The muthafuckin goods tbh

Elbowing people in the gut and passing up layups for assists doesn't impress you?

[ambchang]

probably the same reason ppl say CP3 is better defender than Kidd. # of steals * @ of flops + referee help :rolleyes

Payton could guard quick guys but Kidd can guard big guys

Not really, it's because back in the days of Stockton, there weren't that many "big" PGs. Magic was pretty much the only one.

Stockton had the wits (some say dirtiness) to keep up with most PGs, he was most definitely a better defender than Magic and Zeke, I don't know about Robertson because nobody played defense back in the day, and Kidd is just from a different era.

[cheguevara]

Don't forget Cousy, Frazier, Cheeks, Archibald. Maybe even Mark Jackson.

Kidd is one of the most overrated players ever.

Mark Jackson? don't be a retard. oh wait, you're a laker fan. the damage is done.

Kidd raises the IQ level of the team he is in like nobody in that list except for Magic and Zeke.

[Reggie Williams]

1. Tony Parker
2. Tony Parker
3. Tony Parker
4. Tony Parker
5. DPG aka DA POINT GUARD