At any point in the history of ST's Political Forum, has a poster... [Archive]

FromWayDowntown

06-09-2011, 02:29 AM

Can't say as I recall any online conversions. Anyone else?

I can't say that I recall anything specific, but I do know that there have been conversations in this forum that have caused me to think very seriously about a position I've taken on some subject, mostly through the presentation of thoughtful counters or alternatives to some of the basic premises that underlie my ultimate conclusion. I don't know that any of those have caused me to completely change my position on an issue, but I also don't really come here with the belief that all of my opinions are bulletproof.

Winehole23

06-09-2011, 02:38 AM

I also don't really come here with the belief that all of my opinions are bulletproof.Your way is alien to the ways of this forum but, hi. How you?

Winehole23

06-09-2011, 03:32 AM

Somebody else posted a thread like this once.

Winehole23

06-09-2011, 03:33 AM

Maybe there was another one too. And that's just in the three or so years I've been infesting..err...investing...this particular subforum.

ChumpDumper

06-09-2011, 04:30 AM

It has happened. No one notices.

MannyIsGod

06-09-2011, 08:57 AM

It has happened. No one notices.

Exactly. It happens more often then people thing. LNG in particular is good at this.

The problem is that the parrots make the loudest noise.

LnGrrrR

06-09-2011, 09:18 AM

DeadlyDynasty

06-09-2011, 09:28 AM

Exactly. It happens more often then people thing. LNG in particular is good at this.

The problem is that the parrots make the loudest noise.

silverblk mystix

06-09-2011, 09:44 AM

No. Never.

People only come here to confirm what they think they already know.

People don't come here with an open mind and a disposition to maybe learn something new.

coyotes_geek

06-09-2011, 09:49 AM

I remember having a discussion about the death penalty on here that changed my view.

TeyshaBlue

06-09-2011, 09:55 AM

It has happened. No one notices.

It happens, usually, in small degrees over time. Not alot of catharsis threads here.:lol

TeyshaBlue

06-09-2011, 09:56 AM

I remember having a discussion about the death penalty on here that changed my view.

You're dead to me now.:ihit:lol

coyotes_geek

06-09-2011, 10:03 AM

You're dead to me now.:ihit:lol

I've never looked at it that way. I take my previous post back. I've decided that I've never changed my mind about anything on here. :p:

TeyshaBlue

06-09-2011, 10:05 AM

No. Never.

People only come here to confirm what they think they already know.

People don't come here with an open mind and a disposition to maybe learn something new.

YOU LIE! GFY!!:lol

clambake

06-09-2011, 10:14 AM

darrin finally admitted to lying. does that count?

101A

06-09-2011, 10:14 AM

I know Winehole has swayed me, if not changed my mind entirely. RG has had some effect at time (at others discussions with him make me dig in my heals). Other posters I will definitely pay attention to what they have to say (FWDT, Manny & others)

greyforest

06-09-2011, 10:20 AM

it has happened, here is proof:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5131265&postcount=24

CosmicCowboy

06-09-2011, 11:34 AM

Rumor has it Boutons just slapped a Palin 2012 sticker on his 1975 AMC Gremlin.

coyotes_geek

06-09-2011, 11:35 AM

Rumor has it Boutons just slapped a Palin 2012 sticker on his 1975 AMC Gremlin.

:rollin

Nick Manning

06-09-2011, 11:44 AM

Doubtful. Repugs are less likely to budge from their stances b/c of the inherited ignorance in their families. Repugs are the reason that there's some truth to Lamarckism.

ElNono

06-09-2011, 11:50 AM

I've learned plenty from those I consider the better posters here (FWD, scott, LN, WH, MB, ES, 101, and many more, etc)... don't know that it completely swayed a position, but certainly added richness to the analysis. :tu

Nick Manning

06-09-2011, 11:53 AM

There are a few great posters here (on both sides). FWD and MB are definitely 2 of the more knowledgeable ones, and I enjoy reading their takes

ChumpDumper

06-09-2011, 12:18 PM

Thanks Manny. I know I've changed my mind on a few various topics, thanks to some good argumentation on here. I know others have as well: for instance, WC admitted he was wrong about the President having the authority to declare war (and sustain it for more than 60 days) without Congressional approval.Just to possibly throw a wrench into whatever resolution was reached, no president has ever felt bound by the provisions of the War Powers Act, though they usually act in a manner "consistent" with them.

Nick Manning

06-09-2011, 12:38 PM

I mustn't forget Wild Cobra in my list of "posters whose takes I enjoy reading." Although he's hopelessly ignorant and his posts are completely devoid of any factual information, the unintentional comedy he brings to the political forum is unmatched.

Andrew Beckett

06-12-2011, 01:00 AM

LnGrrrR

06-12-2011, 02:00 AM

Just to possibly throw a wrench into whatever resolution was reached, no president has ever felt bound by the provisions of the War Powers Act, though they usually act in a manner "consistent" with them.

Well, we were talking more about what "should" be rather than what is. The current Libya situations lays that all too bare. (in the same vein, Andrew Jackson also defied SCOTUS IIRC.)

Wild Cobra

06-12-2011, 12:49 PM

...ever changed their mind and agreed with someone of the opposite political persuasion?

I love trench warfare.
I agree that Kennedy was one of the best presidents we ever had, but I normally hate democrats. Does that count?

Wild Cobra

06-12-2011, 12:51 PM

Rumor has it Boutons just slapped a Palin 2012 sticker on his 1975 AMC Gremlin.
Damn.

I was wrong.

I thought he had a Pacer.

MaNuMaNiAc

06-12-2011, 02:31 PM

Consensus can only be reached if both parties work under some sort of standard of common sense. For me, all I can say is I'm willing to be proven wrong when I'm arguing, as I have been numerous times in the years I've been here. I will admit it wasn't always the case, but I guess one evolves, in a sense, when faced with years of dealing with unmovable bullshit partisanship. There are a number of characters in this forum, however, that present a challenge when it comes to finding some middle ground.

Wild Cobra for example, has continuously proven that his game is arguing for the sake of arguing, even in the face of insurmountable evidence that he doesn't have a fucking clue what he's talking about. Its somewhat hard to find a middle ground between different dimensions. Dude's ass does all his posting as far as I'm concerned.

To be honest, there are few people in this forum that have the ability to present their case in such a well thought out, clear way that they are able to sway opinions on truly controversial matters. FWDT comes to mind as does Extra Stout who unfortunately he's been MIA for a while now. There are others.

As far as willingness to be open minded, I've seen a few instances where people have conceded they might have been wrong about an issue, not many grant you, but a few.

Wild Cobra

06-12-2011, 03:46 PM

Wild Cobra for example, has continuously proven that his game is arguing for the sake of arguing,
There is a small degree of truth to this, to the point I like the conflict. However, I do say what I believe.

even in the face of insurmountable evidence that he doesn't have a fucking clue what he's talking about.
This isn't true. There have been times I jumped to conclusions, or got the wrong ides. Just because a consensus here is often against me, doesn't mean I'm wrong. Consensus is not fact.

Its somewhat hard to find a middle ground between different dimensions. Dude's ass does all his posting as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry that's all you look at.

Agloco

06-12-2011, 09:21 PM

Not related to politics per se but a few posters have changed my view of when the universe was created, when the earth was created, etc. They've also convinced me that I just had it all mixed up when it came to particle physics and radiologic science.

You know who you are........I'm forever indebted.

Cry Havoc

06-12-2011, 10:55 PM

I recall a thread a couple years back about Israel-Palestinian conflict that had quite a few people from both sides of the fence agreeing with each other after initially butting heads. Was quite a good thread to see.

RandomGuy

06-13-2011, 03:50 PM

...ever changed their mind and agreed with someone of the opposite political persuasion?

I love trench warfare.

It happens very occasionally.

Someone might believe something, but be reasonable enough to be persuaded with decent data and logical arguments.

Most of the time people simply re-trench and wave their hands at stuff that contradicts their pre-existing views, or simply move on to the next topic trying to ignore the fact that reality beat them upside the head.

I can remember at least once or twice actually being persuaded in an argument, but can't remember when/what.

RandomGuy

06-13-2011, 03:55 PM

It has happened. No one notices.

Where's the drama in being reasonable?

All you have to do is sort the forum by number of replies/views. The more outrageous/hotbutton the stuff is, the more likely it is to get the real quacks who won't change their minds if you rubbed their face in their own pile of shit.

Apollo moon thread anyone?

RandomGuy

06-13-2011, 03:58 PM

To be honest, there are few people in this forum that have the ability to present their case in such a well thought out, clear way that they are able to sway opinions on truly controversial matters. FWDT comes to mind as does Extra Stout who unfortunately he's been MIA for a while now. There are others.

ES went off the deep end. He still lurks here occasionally and posts under other sockpuppets.

He seems to have concluded the US will collapse into civil war and that leftists need their throats slit to make things better in the long run, or something along those lines.

Of course, he is smart enough to pull off some convincing bullshit if he put his mind to it, so I could have that wrong. I miss the reasonable ES too.

Winehole23

06-13-2011, 04:54 PM

ES went off the deep end. I wonder. Maybe we're the crazy ones and he went sane.

LnGrrrR

06-13-2011, 05:48 PM

I wonder. Maybe we're the crazy ones and he went sane.

Nahhhh.

Cry Havoc

06-13-2011, 10:25 PM

ES went off the deep end. He still lurks here occasionally and posts under other sockpuppets.

He seems to have concluded the US will collapse into civil war and that leftists need their throats slit to make things better in the long run, or something along those lines.

Of course, he is smart enough to pull off some convincing bullshit if he put his mind to it, so I could have that wrong. I miss the reasonable ES too.

At this point I would say that's fairly accurate. The only thing I would think is more likely to happen is the US slowly descending into a complete oligarchy or opaque caste system (kind of already is, but you see my point).

Winehole23

06-14-2011, 01:52 PM

Nahhhh.Quitting this forum probably hurt us more than it hurt him. For him, it was probably a good move -- there weren't too many posters at his level. I certainly wasn't.

I have very little doubt ES has found greener pastures elsewhere. The rumors of a crack-up are just that imo.

Winehole23

06-14-2011, 01:54 PM

Does somebody know the dude, or something?

rjv

06-14-2011, 02:09 PM

in this great field, littered with such stark intellectual hubris, i highly doubt it.

Blake

06-14-2011, 02:15 PM

The more outrageous/hotbutton the stuff is, the more likely it is to get the real quacks who won't change their minds if you rubbed their face in their own pile of shit.

Not much point in trying to change someone else's mind on a messageboard, but I get a tremendous kick out of the rubbing of the face in their own intellectual shit.

which should surprise noone.

Winehole23

06-14-2011, 02:26 PM

in this great field, littered with such stark intellectual hubris, i highly doubt it.ES is a Spurs fan, lives in SA, I think. Someone might have a bead on him in meatspace.

clambake

06-14-2011, 02:30 PM

ES is a Spurs fan, lives in SA, I think. Someone might have a bead on him in meatspace.

ask marcus where he went.

Winehole23

06-14-2011, 02:51 PM

thanks, clambake. :tu

LnGrrrR

06-14-2011, 02:52 PM

I know that WC's illumination of how much "good" charities actually donate educated me and changed my mind about the charity in the OP.

DarkReign

06-15-2011, 10:09 AM

Partisanship removes any possibility of consensus.

Hence, the political forum.

MannyIsGod

06-15-2011, 03:44 PM

Partisanship removes any possibility of consensus.

Hence, the political forum.

You mean partisanship as we've come to know it or in general? I think there is more consensus here than you'd think.

CuckingFunt

06-15-2011, 06:25 PM

I have often seen the OP's question raised as an argument for the futility of this forum and its discussions, and I can't help wonder if consensus and/or conversion is really the point.

It's doubtful that anything discussed in this format could sway me away from deeply held beliefs, for instance. And I know I'm certainly not arguing here with the intent to bring someone to my side. But that doesn't necessarily mean that this forum has failed. Or that it is ineffectual. Countless threads have made me more aware of issues I don't have the time/energy to follow closely, have provided new perspective into opinions and beliefs opposite my own, and have forced me to clarify my position on certain subjects through articulating my own point of view.

Cant_Be_Faded

06-15-2011, 06:56 PM

Plenty of times. I have changed my position on several issues after reading more facts and opinions. Can't speak for others exactly though

Nbadan

06-16-2011, 12:10 AM

Most peoples political beliefs eventually drift bact to their parent's beliefs.....they could go through periods of time where they get more 'liberal' or 'cpnservative', drift to the other side, but eventually those beliefs drift back to deeply seated family beliefs...

Nbadan

06-16-2011, 12:12 AM

Plenty of times. I have changed my position on several issues after reading more facts and opinions. Can't speak for others exactly though

Yeah, I think it happens much more than people here admit...as far as a consensus on issues.....that would make for a pretty boring forum, right?

mookie2001

06-16-2011, 01:30 AM

Cbf is a waffler though, he used to be a Utah jazz fan when he lived in LA

DarkReign

06-16-2011, 10:10 AM

You mean partisanship as we've come to know it or in general? I think there is more consensus here than you'd think.

Only because, at the moment, there are more liberals posting than conservatives.

You dont have Yonivore, Clandestino, etc posting in here at all.

There is no "other side" outside of DarrinS and WC. You have like-mindedness, for now, with the current crop of forum leaders.

That will change when a Republican wins the Presidency, whether that be 2012 or 2016.

DarkReign

06-16-2011, 10:14 AM

Anyway, my poor attempt at making a point made the point entirely missed.

Partisanship, in any form, is the worst thing to happen to American politics. No good ever comes from conformity to ideas that are not one's own. Only on a temporary basis with long periods of consideration. Blind loyalty to a party, whether blue, red or green, is at the very heart of the political horn-locking that has paralyzed this country into inaction for almost my entire lifetime.

Actually, for my entire lifetime. Cant speak for before that, not a history guru.