GOP debate on CNN

[jack sommerset]

The big dogs are out.

[boutons_deux]

Not a strong candidate among them.

I'm sure they will all pander the Christian Taleban, and extreme right-wing nutcases, hoping they pass all ideological litmus tests.

[jack sommerset]

Not a strong candidate among them.

I'm sure they will all pander the Christian Taleban, and extreme right-wing nutcases, hoping they pass all ideological litmus tests.

Any of them except the chick would beat barry.

[fraga]

^^Mahahahahaa...

[baseline bum]

So what's the main topic tonight? American flag pins?

[jack sommerset]

So what's the main topic tonight? American flag pins?

Jobs,barrycare,smaller government....you should check it out....Also I take it back, the chick would beat barry.

[Drachen]

What I meant to say was "I won't appoint any Muslims to my cabinet who are trying to kill us"

Thank you Herman Cain. I am happy to find out that you aren't going to be appointing any Al Queda members to your cabinet.

[fraga]

How the FUCK does Ron Paul mix illegal immigrants getting healthcare and the Catholic church???

[DMX7]

Any of them except the chick would beat barry.

:lmao

[fraga]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_t6rV3U9ZEHM/S6Ia0DHl-LI/AAAAAAAAupw/YcDEI_tsuuM/s320/MicheleBachmannBlack.jpg

I Win!!!

[TE]

How the FUCK does Ron Paul mix illegal immigrants getting healthcare and the Catholic church???

:lol


That was pretty funny.

[TE]

Mitt Romney is so overrated.

[florige]

Yeah I am sure Herman Cain would beat Obama. :rolleyes For that much that idiot Michael Steele should had been included.

[ElNono]

I missed it. Cliffnotes?

[ElNono]

nvm... found a CNN article

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/06/13/cnn.gop.debate/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

[ElNono]

Who are the token black guy and girl?

[Capt Bringdown]

Irrelevant, as we already have a Republican in the White House.

http://www.clowncrack.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/WhenYourRightYourRight-300x250.jpg

Hope? Change?

Obama Seeks to Win Back Wall St. Cash (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/13/us/politics/13donor.html?_r=1)
A few weeks before announcing his re-election campaign, President Obama convened two dozen Wall Street executives, many of them longtime donors, in the White House’s Blue Room.

F.B.I. Agents Get Leeway to Push Privacy Bounds (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/13/us/13fbi.html)
The Federal Bureau of Investigation is giving significant new powers to its roughly 14,000 agents, allowing them more leeway to search databases, go through household trash or use surveillance teams to scrutinize the lives of people who have attracted their attention.

[Wild Cobra]

Any of them except the chick would beat barry.
Oh come on. Even the chick can beat Obama with both hands tied behind her back. She would just use those long legs.

[Wild Cobra]

Who are the token black guy and girl?
He's not a token. He's the real thing.

[boutons_deux]

Cain said yesterday that Barry was raised in Kenya.

Cain, like Steele, is a token black, so the Repugs can play "I have a black friend".

West is just an asshole, like Thomas.

[Wild Cobra]

Cain said yesterday that Barry was raised in Kenya.

I don't know if he really believes that, but it is funny to say things like that about Obambam


Cain, like Steele, is a token black, so the Repugs can play "I have a black friend".

A successful business man, for the party of business, a token?

Really now.

[boutons_deux]

Yes, there are plenty of white successful businessmen, country club boyz, but the Repugs, as with Steele, know they need the black vote (not that they value black people). Selling junk food and contributing to the obesity of his people (and profits for the sick-care business) is, yes, a huge Cain contribution.

The GOP's 'My Best Friend Is Black' Strategy

While Cain’s portrayal of this role is deft, it is also old wine in a new bottle. On one hand, Cain’s campaign is ostensibly “colorblind” and has nothing to do with his novelty as a self-described “American Black Conservative.” Yet when given the opportunity, Cain portrays a benign, friendly version of “authentic” blackness that he panders to his white, racially reactionary supporters on the Right.

The evidence for how racial resentment is the engine that drives the contemporary Republican Party and its Tea Party wing is overwhelming. Public opinion data suggests that the most ideological conservatives are more likely to believe that people of color are lazy and less intelligent than whites, and the anecdotal evidence would appear to bear that out. From the racist signs seen at Tea Party rallies and bigoted emails circulated among some Tea Party types that describe Barack Obama as a monkey, to the enduring phenomena of“Birtherism” and xenophobia, all indicators point to a deep antipathy towards the very idea that a black man is President of the United States of America.

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/151207

=======

The Repug candidates are freak show, a bunch fakes, liars, distracting side-shows that don't address the real problems THEY have created for Real Americans.

[ElNono]

He's not a token. He's the real thing.

That guy won't survive the primaries... that's the 'real thing'...

[boutons_deux]

http://mjcdn.motherjones.com/preset_16/herman-cain-peace-sign-gage_skidmore-425x320.jpg

Herman Cain's Immigration Plan: A Great Wall of China and an Alligator-Filled Moat

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/herman-cain-immigration-great-wall-alligators

Why Are America's Pizza Moguls So Nuts?

http://mjcdn.motherjones.com/preset_16/giordanos_web.jpg

You're probably aware of Herman Cain, the former Godfather's Pizza CEO who's currently running for president on a platform of protecting the Mexican border with a giant army of alligators and only signing bills that are less than three pages long. You may know about Domino's founder Tom Monaghan, who built his own theocratic township in Central Florida, to house his arch-conservative Ave Maria School of Law.

biggest mistakes are unusual documents Apostolou filed in court by himself in which he improperly tries to terminate the bankruptcy, alleging fraud and other misdeeds. The documents included an affidavit also signed by his wife, Eva, in which they claim they don't recognize U.S. currency and are free of any legal constraints.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/why-are-americas-pizza-moguls-so-nuts

just your typical bunch of Repug/conservative freaks headlining the freakshow.

[George Gervin's Afro]

smaller govt, even lower taxes, less regualtions, bash obama.. hit all of the talking points debate followed to the 'T'..


nice job GOP. Is this the best you guys have?

[boutons_deux]

It’s Not About Race: Obama Trounces Cain With African American Voters

Ahead of tonight’s Republican debate some conservatives might be thinking that Herman Cain could bring in some African American voters, but according to PPP survey of South Carolina, Obama destroys Cain with African American voters, 93%-4%.

PPP tested the idea that Herman Cain would be popular with African-Americans in their latest South Carolina poll. The pollster found that Cain had only a 12% approval rating with African Americans and a 52% disapproval rating.

Overall, Cain is a relative unknown in the state. He has a 26% favorable rating, a 35% unfavorable rating, and 39% were not sure. Obama beats Cain 43%-40% head to head, but it is clear that most of that support is coming from white male Republicans. (Cain’s favorability with women in the state is only 21%).

http://www.politicususa.com/en/obama-cain-african-american?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+politicususa%2FfJAl+%28Politi cus+USA+%29

[George Gervin's Afro]

I think a Palin / Cain ticket would be the strongest for the GOp..



:lmao

[TeyshaBlue]

It’s Not About Race: Obama Trounces Cain With African American Voters

Ahead of tonight’s Republican debate some conservatives might be thinking that Herman Cain could bring in some African American voters, but according to PPP survey of South Carolina, Obama destroys Cain with African American voters, 93%-4%.

PPP tested the idea that Herman Cain would be popular with African-Americans in their latest South Carolina poll. The pollster found that Cain had only a 12% approval rating with African Americans and a 52% disapproval rating.

Overall, Cain is a relative unknown in the state. He has a 26% favorable rating, a 35% unfavorable rating, and 39% were not sure. Obama beats Cain 43%-40% head to head, but it is clear that most of that support is coming from white male Republicans. (Cain’s favorability with women in the state is only 21%).



lol @ a poll confirming that Cain is unknown in the state. Duh.:lol

[RandomGuy]

The big dogs are out.

And by "big dogs are out" you mean an endless stream of regurgitated talking points, and shameless pandering to the base with nothing in the way of real substance?

First few debates in any primary are really pointless, although it was funny seeing Pawlenty back away from his criticisms of Romney's healthcare reform.

[jack sommerset]

And by "big dogs are out" you mean an endless stream of regurgitated talking points, and shameless pandering to the base with nothing in the way of real substance?.

Umm, no.

[jack sommerset]

Oh come on. Even the chick can beat Obama with both hands tied behind her back. She would just use those long legs.



Jobs,barrycare,smaller government....you should check it out....Also I take it back, the chick would beat barry.

[Trainwreck2100]

lol all these GOP dbags a blind if they think simply throwing out a candidate will equal an automatic win. People said the same shit about the dems in 04

[MannyIsGod]

Jack, if Obama wins, you leave Spurstalk forever. If any GOP candidate wins, I'll leave forever. Since you're so confident. Deal?

[MannyIsGod]

Also, LOL At them not even talking about the economy. Bunch of pussies just like Jack.

[RandomGuy]

Oh come on. Even [Michelle Bachman] can beat Obama with both hands tied behind her back.



http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing025.gif

Please oh please, vote for her in the Republican primaries. I know I will.

[RandomGuy]

Also, LOL At them not even talking about the economy. Bunch of pussies just like Jack.

They talked about it plenty, but did little other than blame Democrats for it. :sleep

[TeyshaBlue]

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing025.gif

Please oh please, vote for her in the Republican primaries. I know I will.

douchebaggery move, tbh.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Also, LOL At them not even talking about the economy. Bunch of pussies just like Jack.

Well the GOP did 'wrest control of Congress' starting January 1.

The dems suck at campaigning compared to the GOP.

[boutons_deux]

Well the GOP did 'wrest control of Congress' starting January 1.

The dems suck at campaigning compared to the GOP.

The Repugs are much bigger and more effective liars.

Repugs campaigned against the Dems with "What about the jobs?", leading fooled-100-times voters to think the Repugs had plans for job creation, the moribund economy as a priority. Well, that was a lie.

Repugs campaigned saying health care reform would screw seniors. Well, that was a lie, since Ryan and all the Repugs who HAD to vote for his plan destroys Medicare and totally screws seniors into poverty.

And the Repugs know if they can block all Dem economic incentives and force a double dip in the criminal Banksters' Great Depression, the Repugs know they greatly increase their chance in 2012. Repugs don't GAF how much pain and poverty and deaths their politics directly and indirectly causes.

[boutons_deux]

Money from Gingrich charity went to his for-profit businesses

A May 2011 audit commissioned by the West Virginia Secretary of State found that a tax-exempt charity founded by former House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-GA) paid money to several of his for-profit businesses.

Experts told ABC News that Gingrich's Renewing American Leadership charity may have crossed the line by participating in the political process and helping to funnel cash to his profit-making enterprises.

The charity is said to have purchased cases of books and DVDs from Gingrich Productions and paid an additional $220,000 to Gingrich Communications. Gingrich was featured in Renewing American Leadership fundraising letters and their website serves as a vehicle for his policy ideas.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/06/14/money-from-gingrich-charity-went-to-his-for-profit-businesses/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

========

Puritanical Human-Americans are OK with money and corruption and pornographic violence, but don't try any funny business with sex.

[RandomGuy]

douchebaggery move, tbh.

Meh, I always say shit like that, but never end up following through.

If I really wanted to be a douchebag about it, I would start pushing her in some conservative forum somewhere.

Usually I say I will vote for a Republican to emphasize how weak I think they are to some true believer like WC.

I guess I should simply stop trying to point out how weak some of the candidates are and let them pick people like Bachmann, if it really makes them happy.

Who am I to point out how unappealing some of their ideas are to moderates?

[Winehole23]

During the primaries candidates stir up the base by pretending to hold similar beliefs. In the general election (and, if elected, in office) they mostly piss backward on those beliefs.

[Spurminator]

This is a live audition for potential candidates to try out their skills at public speaking to the select few who will choose the GOP candidate and write their platform for them.

For the general public, it's meaningless.

[Agloco]

Oh come on. Even the chick can beat Obama with both hands tied behind her back. She would just use those long legs.

The chick is Michelle Bachmann, and she's like 5'1".

EDIT: Apparently she's also an ID subscriber.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-zimmerman/michele-bachmans-stance-o_b_868771.html

:lol

[coyotes_geek]

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing025.gif

Please oh please, vote for her in the Republican primaries. I know I will.

What if Perry is in that primary?

I'm curious about what the Texas democrat perspective is here. Sure looks like the only way Perry's going to get out of the governors mansion is if he's relocating to the white house. I know it's obvious that Tx-dems would not vote for Perry over Obama in the general election just to get him out of Austin, but what about the primary?

[George Gervin's Afro]

What if Perry is in that primary?

I'm curious about what the Texas democrat perspective is here. Sure looks like the only way Perry's going to get out of the governors mansion is if he's relocating to the white house. I know it's obvious that Tx-dems would not vote for Perry over Obama in the general election just to get him out of Austin, but what about the primary?

He's a pos... didn't debate Bill White (who would have kicked his ass) because his minions didn't feel he needed to. Can you imagine of Obama decided to ignore and dodge the debates? The outrage!!!

I want him to run so he gets to face the fire of the press..he runs from the press in TX..in fact rarely grants interviews.. and when he does he never strays off message..

[Winehole23]

I don't think I could push the button for Rick Perry in the primary, even as an expedience to be rid of him as Tx Governor. I would be very uncomfortable about having helped to elect Rick Perry to the highest office in the land and indeed, to a seat of world power.

[Winehole23]

Too risky for me.

[TeyshaBlue]

I understand the sentiment, WH, but he's unelectable, IMO. I'd vote for him in a heart beat just to be rid of him. You don't dodge press and debates as a GOP candidate.

[Winehole23]

I understand the sentiment, WH, but he's unelectable, IMO. I'd vote for him in a heart beat just to be rid of him. Sorry. Can't do it. Hope you're right about the unelectability.

You don't dodge press and debates as a GOP candidate.If you're Rick Perry you do, and your people admire you for it.

[Spurminator]

I think he's absolutely electable... I'd be just as scared.

Plus, let's be real here... There would probably be very little difference between Perry and whoever replaced him as Texas Governor.

[Spurminator]

And he wouldn't dodge the debate. He would dodge every question in the debate and flash that nice Southern folksy smile that says, "This is the kind of liberal fancy-talk that got America in the situation we're in today. I don't talk, I git 'er done."

Intellectualism and rationality have never been less valuable than they are today, and Barack Obama has a lot to do with that.

[Winehole23]

Plus, let's be real here... There would probably be very little difference between Perry and whoever replaced him as Texas Governor.David Dewhurst?

Maybe not a drastic difference, but there's a little difference there.

[jack sommerset]

Jack, if Obama wins, you leave Spurstalk forever. If any GOP candidate wins, I'll leave forever. Since you're so confident. Deal?

I could careless if you post here or not. If Barry wins, this site will need down to earth honest people like myself more than ever, I wouldn't dare turn my back them.

With that said Barry is going to lose, son. It's already been written. Barry is not the man.

You made similar statements about the Wisconsin recalls.

You need to start considering supporting a movement that would tell Barry not to run in 2012. Since you're stuck on democrat.

[ChumpDumper]

down to earth honest people like myself more than ever:rollin

[coyotes_geek]

David Dewhurst?

Maybe not a drastic difference, but there's a little difference there.

Probably would be the same agenda as the Perry agenda, just delivered in a significantly less dewshy manner.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I could careless if you post here or not. If Barry wins, this site will need down to earth honest people like myself more than ever, I wouldn't dare turn my back them.

With that said Barry is going to lose, son. It's already been written. Barry is not the man.

You made similar statements about the Wisconsin recalls.

You need to start considering supporting a movement that would tell Barry not to run in 2012. Since you're stuck on democrat.

a down to earth cock sucking fag..jack..is that what you are?

[coyotes_geek]

I understand the sentiment, WH, but he's unelectable, IMO. I'd vote for him in a heart beat just to be rid of him. You don't dodge press and debates as a GOP candidate.

Gotta disagree. I give Perry a better shot at Obama than anyone else the republicans could put on the ticket. Jobs are going to be the big ticket issue in 2012. Job growth in Texas is blowing away the rest of the nation and Rick Perry gets to take credit for it. (No, he's not responsible for it, but welcome to politics.) There's some pretty high unemployment rates in key swing states.

Not saying Perry would win, but he could.

[Blake]

Gotta disagree. I give Perry a better shot at Obama than anyone else the republicans could put on the ticket. Jobs are going to be the big ticket issue in 2012. Job growth in Texas is blowing away the rest of the nation and Rick Perry gets to take credit for it. (No, he's not responsible for it, but welcome to politics.) There's some pretty high unemployment rates in key swing states.

Not saying Perry would win, but he could.

I can't disagree that he would have a great shot at least to win the Republican ticket.

Why do you think he hasn't been a prominent name in the mix?

[TeyshaBlue]

Gotta disagree. I give Perry a better shot at Obama than anyone else the republicans could put on the ticket. Jobs are going to be the big ticket issue in 2012. Job growth in Texas is blowing away the rest of the nation and Rick Perry gets to take credit for it. (No, he's not responsible for it, but welcome to politics.) There's some pretty high unemployment rates in key swing states.

Not saying Perry would win, but he could.

Yer a cynical bastard.:p:

[baseline bum]

Perry could absolutely get elected by this stupid country. So could Palin.

[boutons_deux]

Waited til after the debate

Huntsman announces he's running for president

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/14/985105/-Huntsman-announces-hes-running-for-president?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dailykos%2Findex+%28Daily+Kos %29

[boutons_deux]

Cain Believes In The Tax Fairy: ‘The American People Have Been Lied To’ About Tax Cuts ‘Costing Money’

Unfortunately, the American people have been lied to about tax rates costing money. If you look at the decade of the ’60s, when JFK was able to get some dramatic cuts, tax revenues increased over 50 percent. When Reagan did it in the decade of the ’80s, tax revenues increased over 50 percent.

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/taxrevenue0610.png

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06/14/245504/cain-tax-fairy-revenues-lie/

[Wild Cobra]

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing025.gif

Please oh please, vote for her in the Republican primaries. I know I will.
Sorry, I can't vote in the primaries. I have never been registered as a republican.

[Wild Cobra]

The chick is Michelle Bachmann, and she's like 5'1".

EDIT: Apparently she's also an ID subscriber.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-zimmerman/michele-bachmans-stance-o_b_868771.html

:lol
LOL...

I don't know how tall she is. Just being funny with that one. Almost used blue font, but didn't.

[Wild Cobra]

Perry could absolutely get elected by this stupid country. So could Palin.
Hey...

Is people like Carter and Obama can get elected, it just about proves anyone can!

[Wild Cobra]

Cain Believes In The Tax Fairy: ‘The American People Have Been Lied To’ About Tax Cuts ‘Costing Money’

Unfortunately, the American people have been lied to about tax rates costing money. If you look at the decade of the ’60s, when JFK was able to get some dramatic cuts, tax revenues increased over 50 percent. When Reagan did it in the decade of the ’80s, tax revenues increased over 50 percent.

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/taxrevenue0610.png

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06/14/245504/cain-tax-fairy-revenues-lie/
How many times have I said it averages 18.3%?

I think if we just tried for 18.3%, it would probably be less volatile.

[boutons_deux]

average is bullshit idea.

Tax revenues vary with the economy, and above all tax policies.

[Wild Cobra]

average is bullshit idea.

Tax revenues vary with the economy, and above all tax policies.
Yet except for this recent repression, revenues stayed very close to, and averaged 18.3% of GDP, for decades.

[coyotes_geek]

Yer a cynical bastard.:p:

When it comes to politics, always. :)


I can't disagree that he would have a great shot at least to win the Republican ticket.

Why do you think he hasn't been a prominent name in the mix?

I think he's content to stay on the sidelines until the last minute. Saves his campaign some money. Allows him to skip some debates (not his strong suit) without getting called on it. Plus Perry's campaign strategy is all about mudslinging, so by letting the republican field thin itself out first he's got fewer targets to have to go after.

[boutons_deux]

Bachmann's Campaign Guru in January: She's Not a "Serious Player"


"We have checked her 13 times, and [found] seven of her claims to be false and six have been found to be ridiculously false."


http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/06/michele-bachmann-ed-rollins-president-2012

========

She's a obscene, extreme liar, a prime Repug qualification.

[Blake]

I think he's content to stay on the sidelines until the last minute. Saves his campaign some money. Allows him to skip some debates (not his strong suit) without getting called on it. Plus Perry's campaign strategy is all about mudslinging, so by letting the republican field thin itself out first he's got fewer targets to have to go after.

This guy seems to agree and thinks Perry will throw his hat in soon:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/06/rick-perry-texas-gop-presidential-race-.html

The more I think about it, the more I think Perry would give the Republicans the best shot at beating Obama. It would/will definitely be fun to watch.

[Nbadan]

the debate summary...

http://www.truthdig.com/images/eartothegrounduploads/lk061511dAPR-500.jpg

[RandomGuy]

With that said Barry is going to lose, son. It's already been written. Barry is not the man.


OOOOOH, yet another solid prediction about an election more than a year away.

One would think people would stop doing that, especially after whottt so sadly flamed out on his prediction.

Two words.

Group.
Think.

Republicans being mad means little, unless the election, such a mid-term, is a poorly attended one.

What you are missing in your calculuus is how far to the right the party has steered, making moderates more than a little uncomfortable.

[RandomGuy]

FWIW

Bachmann's politifact fack-checking scorecard:


We've been fact-checking Bachmann since 2009. We've rated 23 statements on the Truth-O-Meter. Here's how the tally breaks down:

True 1
Mostly True 0
Half True 2
Barely True 4
False 9
Pants on Fire 7

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/jun/16/fact-checking-michele-bachmann/

You can't have that kind of record and credibly run, because those "pants on fire" moments *will* come back to haunt you, when the people who don't pay much attention get spoon fed those moments by your opponent.

[RandomGuy]

Gotta disagree. I give Perry a better shot at Obama than anyone else the republicans could put on the ticket. Jobs are going to be the big ticket issue in 2012. Job growth in Texas is blowing away the rest of the nation and Rick Perry gets to take credit for it. (No, he's not responsible for it, but welcome to politics.) There's some pretty high unemployment rates in key swing states.

Not saying Perry would win, but he could.

I would agree, generally.

Although another governor from Texas would not sit well with a lot of people.

[SnakeBoy]

He's a pos... didn't debate Bill White (who would have kicked his ass) because his minions didn't feel he needed to. Can you imagine of Obama decided to ignore and dodge the debates? The outrage!!!

Perry had nothing to gain from debating White so it was smart of him not to do it. I don't particularly like Perry but he is a very effective campaigner. If he jumps in I'd put him as the favorite to win the primaries and I think he'd have a very good shot at beating Obama.

As for the op, it's a pathetically weak field right now. I'd put Pawlenty as the best candidate if he can overcome the issue of being one of the most forgettable people on the planet. I don't see any of the current field beating Obama unless the economy takes even more of a nosedive next year.

I wish Christie would get in the race. The Fatman would kick everyones ass.

[ChumpDumper]

Christie is too fat and heli-limogate didn't help that perception.

[ElNono]

Every politician has a few skeletons in their closet. Christie is no exception.
The biggest issue with him, IMO, is that he's more of the same: Liar, hypocrite and to top it off, full of himself.

[ElNono]

dp

[Nbadan]

Palin/Perry 2012

[SnakeBoy]

Palin/Perry 2012

That's not all that unrealistic. Palin could easily step in late and steal the primaries if she gets good people around her and sticks to the message. And they are friends so...

[ElNono]

That's not all that unrealistic. Palin could easily step in late and steal the primaries if she gets good people around her and sticks to the message. And they are friends so...

You mean if good people around her deliver the message?

[Winehole23]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3082425&postcount=4

[Winehole23]

Oh I was pissed about that. The media tried to sell it as him trying to protect her even though she was doing fine. They just didn't know that sleaze bag attention whore Perry was just pissed that none of the reporters gave a shit about him.

Oh well, baby doll says let it slide.

[Winehole23]

:rollin

[Winehole23]

Baby doll says let it slide.

[Winehole23]

She was right. Much worse was coming.

[boutons_deux]

Bachmann says Barry HUSSEIN is a secret conservative intent on killing Medicare, too.

=======

"This hasn't been talked about very much -- the president's plan for senior citizens is Obamacare," Ms. Bachmann told party activists here. She added, "I think very likely what the president intends is that Medicare will go broke and ultimately that answer will be Obamacare for senior citizens."

Bachmann's principal problem is that she combines the worst of two important traits: she's strikingly ignorant about public policy and she's paranoid to the point of delusion.

It's these qualities that lead Bachmann to come up with such odd theories. In this case, the unhinged Minnesotan believes President Obama is secretly trying to eliminate Medicare, forcing seniors into the Affordable Care Act. Is there any evidence at all to support this? Of course not, but that's not important right now.

In practical terms, Bachmann apparently thinks the president is secretly right-wing -- she believes Obama wants to end the existing system of socialized medicine for seniors, and force these millions of seniors into the private insurance market.

Of course, there is a group of people who actually support such an approach. They're called "House Republicans." Indeed, the House GOP budget plan -- written by Paul Ryan and endorsed by none other than Michele Bachmann -- seeks to end Medicare and convert the program into an ACA-style system. Bachmann's conspiracy theory is that Obama secretly agrees with her far-right colleagues.

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/newsandviews/618220

=========

Like any hard-core evangelical, paranoid ignoramus, she make up any old shit and spreads it around.

[fraga]

The scary part is that she believes everything she says...100%...

[boutons_deux]

Many Americans have suckered by preachers into thinking that belief in any old shit the preachers make up as "truth" makes irrelevant, replaces science, rationality, evidence, critical thinking, analysis.

It's LYING that pays very well, the fooled and their money are soon parted.

[ElNono]

Chris Christie salary cap on school superintendents forces some to seek work elsewhere, retire early
(http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/salary_cap_forcing_some_nj_sch.html)

What happened with letting the free market dictate what people should make?

[RandomGuy]

Chris Christie salary cap on school superintendents forces some to seek work elsewhere, retire early
(http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/salary_cap_forcing_some_nj_sch.html)

What happened with letting the free market dictate what people should make?

Most conservatives don't want any government jobs competing salary-wise with that of the private sector. A waste of money.

The end result of that is that you get a less and less competant government over time, which also feeds their worldview.

win-win from their perspective.

[TeyshaBlue]

Chris Christie salary cap on school superintendents forces some to seek work elsewhere, retire early
(http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/salary_cap_forcing_some_nj_sch.html)

What happened with letting the free market dictate what people should make?

Public (taxpayer supported) education has never been a free market. Sorta strawish, El.

[coyotes_geek]

Public (taxpayer supported) education has never been a free market. Sorta strawish, El.

"Sorta" is being pretty generous.


Most conservatives don't want any government jobs competing salary-wise with that of the private sector. A waste of money.

The end result of that is that you get a less and less competant government over time, which also feeds their worldview.

win-win from their perspective.

So does this mean you're against the highest compensated employees in the public education system having to take a paycut during a time when school budgets are incredibly strained?

[ElNono]

Public (taxpayer supported) education has never been a free market. Sorta strawish, El.

How is that? School superintendents in New Jersey have had 'tenure' and such shenanigans removed a while ago, and are supposedly 'free agent' paid free-market value.

The original idea to remove such perks was that the market should dictate what they should be paid... guess the market was wrong.

[ElNono]

So does this mean you're against the highest compensated employees in the public education system having to take a paycut during a time when school budgets are incredibly strained?

Nobody forced school boards of education to sign off on those contracts, did they?

[TeyshaBlue]

Your position is predicated upon there actually being a marketplace. There's not. The market approximate your referencing is a publicly funded structure whose pay structure is tied, for the most part, to local property taxes. Those taxes vary by region for sure, but that variation does not create a free market.
However, the resemblence is striking when relative salaries of supers:teachers is considered. But just because it looks like a market imbalance, doesn't make it so. IMO, there are very few supers that earn their salaries. Most are unbelievably overpaid relative to the classroom teacher. However, you will see that imbalance amongst coaches:teachers as well. Is that free market at play? No. Like the supers, their salaries are set by an elected board of citizens...not that many of those boards make quality decisions in that regard.

[coyotes_geek]

Nobody forced school boards of education to sign off on those contracts, did they?

No. Your point?

[ElNono]

Your position is predicated upon there actually being a marketplace. There's not. The market approximate your referencing is a publicly funded structure whose pay structure is tied, for the most part, to local property taxes. Those taxes vary by region for sure, but that variation does not create a free market.

But it isn't restricted to a publicly funded structure. Charter/private schools also have superintendents (even for schools as small as 300 students) making the same amount of money or more (and those in the private sector are NOT capped).


However, the resemblence is striking when relative salaries of supers:teachers is considered. But just because it looks like a market imbalance, doesn't make it so. IMO, there are very few supers that earn their salaries. Most are unbelievably overpaid relative to the classroom teacher. However, you will see that imbalance amongst coaches:teachers as well. Is that free market at play? No. Like the supers, their salaries are set by an elected board of citizens...not that many of those boards make quality decisions in that regard.

I didn't compare teachers and supers salaries, not sure where that came from. I do agree that BoE sometimes makes shoddy decisions, but who's fault is that considering they're voted in by taxpayers themselves?

[TeyshaBlue]

But it isn't restricted to a publicly funded structure. Charter/private schools also have superintendents (even for schools as small as 300 students) making the same amount of money or more (and those in the private sector are NOT capped).
That's an entirely different argument El, than the point you were making with the Christie statement. Private schools are closer to a free market approach than public.




I didn't compare teachers and supers salaries, not sure where that came from. I do agree that BoE sometimes makes shoddy decisions, but who's fault is that considering they're voted in by taxpayers themselves?
I made the comparison to illustrate the similarities that appear between CEO and super salaries....which tend to drive the perception/arguments that public schools are a free market. They most certainly are not. A BOE is markedly different that a BOD. Yes, the models are similar, but the funding foundations are completely different....ergo free maket vs public schools.

[ElNono]

No. Your point?

My point is still the same: If market value dictate they should be earning more, why does the government need to step in and dictate what they should be paid?

Or conversely, if it's ok to dictate arbitrary caps 'because the budget is strained', where does it end?

Why aren't we doing the same by dictating what doctors or health care providers get paid under programs like Medicare or Medicaid? I reckon people throwing a hissy fit when that was proposed.

[ElNono]

That's an entirely different argument El, than the point you were making with the Christie statement. Private schools are closer to a free market approach than public.

But supers are similarly free agents as far as I can tell. They're hired on a contract basis. At least that's my understanding.


I made the comparison to illustrate the similarities that appear between CEO and super salaries....which tend to drive the perception/arguments that public schools are a free market. They most certainly are not. A BOE is markedly different that a BOD. Yes, the models are similar, but the funding foundations are completely different....ergo free maket vs public schools.

I fail to understand the need for a cap. If the BoE budget is reduced and they can't afford to pay a super as much, wouldn't that be the market dictating what their value is? Sorry Teysha, I just have a hard time understanding where the cap is a 'necessary evil'.

[coyotes_geek]

My point is still the same: If market value dictate they should be earning more, why does the government need to step in and dictate what they should be paid?

Depends what you feel is the primary mission of government when it comes to public services such as education. Do you believe the primary responsibility of government is to strictly adhere to free market principles regarding compensation of public servants? Or do you believe the primary responsibility is to <gasp> serve the public by placing the public's interests ahead of the public servant's?


Or conversely, if it's ok to dictate arbitrary caps 'because the budget is strained', where does it end?

If you're a free market guy, there is no end to arbitrary caps dictated by strained budgets and market realities.


Why aren't we doing the same by dictating what doctors or health care providers get paid under programs like Medicare or Medicaid? I reckon people throwing a hissy fit when that was proposed.

Not exactly the same thing since doctors & healthcare providers aren't government employees. The government decides what it will reimburse doctors/HCP's, doctors/HCP's are then free to decide whether or not they will treat those patients for that cost.

[RandomGuy]

"Sorta" is being pretty generous.



So does this mean you're against the highest compensated employees in the public education system having to take a paycut during a time when school budgets are incredibly strained?

No, it does not.

I think that public sector employees should, in genera,l take pay cuts with budget deficits, especially like that of Texas'. I think state employees should share the burden, and I think taxes should be raised as well. Spending cuts, although necessary, are NOT sufficient. Anyone involved in the process who is grownup and honest about it would admit to that. (translation: ain't no way any Republican in the Legislature would admit that. Yeah, I went there.)

In the long run, though, the salaries should remain at levels sufficient to be able to be somewhat picky about people that apply.

Letting them fall too much relative to the private sector is a recipe for disaster.

[ElNono]

Depends what you feel is the primary mission of government when it comes to public services such as education. Do you believe the primary responsibility of government is to strictly adhere to free market principles regarding compensation of public servants? Or do you believe the primary responsibility is to <gasp> serve the public by placing the public's interests ahead of the public servant's?

Depends on your definition of 'public's interest'. Is the public's interest best served by letting experienced people with a proven track record go?

I think NJ's education results brought in by these people speak for themselves. Ultimately, you do get what you pay for. The fact that these people can get better salaries on a different state and are actually moving there speaks volumes about their capacity and the fact that NJ is unwilling to keep investing in excellence.

If you told me you're capping those salaries because they don't produce results, then I would agree you might be onto something.


If you're a free market guy, there is no end to arbitrary caps dictated by strained budgets and market realities.

Wouldn't that be the free market setting what the cap is? Why do we need a non-free market cap then?

I'm actually playing devil's advocate in this thread, since I've previously stated that I don't think the free-market offers solutions to everything as some people in here like to champion.


Not exactly the same thing since doctors & healthcare providers aren't government employees. The government decides what it will reimburse doctors/HCP's, doctors/HCP's are then free to decide whether or not they will treat those patients for that cost.

Well, that's fairly close to what's happening here as far as I can tell. And they're indeed packing their bags and going somewhere else where they get paid uncapped 'market value'.

[RandomGuy]

Not exactly the same thing since doctors & healthcare providers aren't government employees. The government decides what it will reimburse doctors/HCP's, doctors/HCP's are then free to decide whether or not they will treat those patients for that cost.

Here is a real-world follow up:

Suppose you have a state, like say, Texas, where there are some pockets of extreme poverty, and 60-70% of any given practitioner's business *is* Medicaid? (known in Texas as STAR for adults, and CHIP for kids)

What if the reductions cause them to give up practicing altogether, or simply move somewhere else?

You then have reduced the ration of health care available in that area, and really fucked over the county hospital, who is legally obligated to take anybody that walks into their emergency room. The county then is forced to raise whatever tax is available to it.

All such cuts do is simply shift more of the costs onto the people who can least afford it anyways, and very likely increase the costs to the system overall.

It amounts to a feel-good gimmick that not only doesn't solve a problem, it makes things markedly worse, IMO.

Not only that, but the Health Care Reform bill has cut a lot of federal funding that has, in the past, gone to border hospitals, and other county hospitals that serve poor areas, so those hospitals are going to get slammed already, and this would just make it worse.

[RandomGuy]

Well, that's fairly close to what's happening here as far as I can tell. And they're indeed packing their bags and going somewhere else where they get paid uncapped 'market value'.

I will confirm this is happening, from access to first-hand anecdotal accounts. I don't see it personally, but talk regularly to people whose job it is to deal with these doctors directly.

[ElNono]

I will confirm this is happening, from access to first-hand anecdotal accounts. I don't see it personally, but talk regularly to people whose job it is to deal with these doctors directly.

From the TFA that started this discussion:

But when Brady realized a new cap on superintendents’ salaries would reduce her $183,759 pay by $40,000, she decided to look for a new job — out of state.
"You multiply that by seven or eight years and compare it with your career plan leading up to retirement and the certain dollars you had in your head and all of a sudden it doesn’t add up anymore," said Brady, 55, who on Aug. 1 will become superintendent of schools in Dobbs Ferry, N.Y., where she will earn $225,000.

[Blake]

I think that public sector employees should, in genera,l take pay cuts with budget deficits, especially like that of Texas'.

Education is the one area I hate seeing as a need for pay cuts.

Cut something else, imo.

[RandomGuy]

Education is the one area I hate seeing as a need for pay cuts.

Cut something else, imo.

Texas already runs a very lean state government, so there isn't a lot to cut without getting draconian anyways.

If they cut education as badly they say they want to, it will end up in court, and I will personally be among those waving signs at school board meetings.

Raise my taxes. I can hang with it and understand why it is happening.

[TeyshaBlue]

Raise my taxes. I can hang with it and understand why it is happening.

+10 :tu

[Blake]

Raise my taxes. I can hang with it and understand why it is happening.

I'm ok with that to a point.

I'd rather find a way to get rid of high school students that don't want to be there.

I'd also like to see people like the ones in Allen, TX that approve spending 60 million in tax dollars to fund a high school football stadium get their asses kicked.

[boutons_deux]

"Raise my taxes"

Not in TX. Repugs are economic/social Darwinian sociopaths that prefer to let old, young, sick, disabled poor stay hungry, sick, die, uneducated than raise taxes.

[TeyshaBlue]

"Raise my taxes"

Not in TX. Repugs are economic/social Darwinian sociopaths that prefer to let old, young, sick, disabled poor stay hungry, sick, die, uneducated than raise taxes.

Thanks, Capt. Zero Sum.

[ElNono]

gfy, VRWC, ankle biter! :ihit

[TeyshaBlue]

:lol

[George W. Bush]

Raising taxes kills jobs. 90% of american jobs are created by the richest 1% of Americans

[coyotes_geek]

Depends on your definition of 'public's interest'. Is the public's interest best served by letting experienced people with a proven track record go?

If the tradeoff from capping superintendents salaries is that more teachers can be retained who would otherwise have to be laid off, then yeah, it very well could be in the public's interests.


I think NJ's education results brought in by these people speak for themselves. Ultimately, you do get what you pay for. The fact that these people can get better salaries on a different state and are actually moving there speaks volumes about their capacity and the fact that NJ is unwilling to keep investing in excellence.

If you told me you're capping those salaries because they don't produce results, then I would agree you might be onto something.

Granted I'm a cynic, but the concept of getting what you pay for is not a universal truth when it comes to government spending IMHO. Maybe we come to find out that superintendent salaries, or even teacher salaries, are not the be-all, end-all determinant of success of the school system that superintendants and teachers would like you to believe.


Wouldn't that be the free market setting what the cap is? Why do we need a non-free market cap then?

I'm actually playing devil's advocate in this thread, since I've previously stated that I don't think the free-market offers solutions to everything as some people in here like to champion.

So noted.


Well, that's fairly close to what's happening here as far as I can tell. And they're indeed packing their bags and going somewhere else where they get paid uncapped 'market value'.

Good for them.


Here is a real-world follow up:

Suppose you have a state, like say, Texas, where there are some pockets of extreme poverty, and 60-70% of any given practitioner's business *is* Medicaid? (known in Texas as STAR for adults, and CHIP for kids)

What if the reductions cause them to give up practicing altogether, or simply move somewhere else?

You then have reduced the ration of health care available in that area, and really fucked over the county hospital, who is legally obligated to take anybody that walks into their emergency room. The county then is forced to raise whatever tax is available to it.

All such cuts do is simply shift more of the costs onto the people who can least afford it anyways, and very likely increase the costs to the system overall.

It amounts to a feel-good gimmick that not only doesn't solve a problem, it makes things markedly worse, IMO.

Not only that, but the Health Care Reform bill has cut a lot of federal funding that has, in the past, gone to border hospitals, and other county hospitals that serve poor areas, so those hospitals are going to get slammed already, and this would just make it worse.

This is the future of medicare. The needs exceed the means. Someone's going to end up having to go without. Sucks, but that's life. Sure there's pain behind cutting services, but there's also pain in spending more than you can afford.


Raise my taxes. I can hang with it and understand why it is happening.

Yep. If it were up to me we'd have tapped the rainy day fund to cover the education shortfall and replenished the RDF with a temporary 0.25cent sales tax.

[ElNono]

If the tradeoff from capping superintendents salaries is that more teachers can be retained who would otherwise have to be laid off, then yeah, it very well could be in the public's interests.

Actually, teachers were already laid off last year. The explanation for this specific capping is that no public employee should make more than the governor (who makes $175,000/year IIRC). Which to me is completely retarded seeing that some of these people have 20+ years of service in education (not necessarily as superintendents).


Granted I'm a cynic, but the concept of getting what you pay for is not a universal truth when it comes to government spending IMHO. Maybe we come to find out that superintendent salaries, or even teacher salaries, are not the be-all, end-all determinant of success of the school system that superintendants and teachers would like you to believe.

I don't think it's an universal truth either. I think there are ways to measure how effective your spending is. IE: if you spend this much and your schools are at the bottom of the national ranks, then something is broken. But NJ has been ranking in the top 3 in education for the last few years (IIRC, definitely last year).

I'm all for auditing how the money is spent. But just capping for some pet peeve in detriment of educational excellence looks very short-sighted, IMO.

[RandomGuy]

This is the future of medicare. The needs exceed the means. Someone's going to end up having to go without. Sucks, but that's life. Sure there's pain behind cutting services, but there's also pain in spending more than you can afford.



.

That's just it. It isn't like deflating the balloon. It is simply squeezing itin one place, only to see it bulge somewhere else.

Simply cutting back spending is not the solution.

Consider:

Woman "cuts spending" by not taking her blood pressure medication.

After a week, she is rushed to the ER, where more money is spent in the futile attempt to save her life than it would have taken to buy her medicine for the next 60 years.

This is a real, actual result. A story that a surgeon in favor of single payor is rather fond of.

The only way you avoid this, is if you repeal the laws that say "you must treat anybody who comes into the ER, without worrying about whether they can pay or not".

Are you willing to give the uninsured a death sentence?

All wants and needs exceed supply. That is why we have prices. To ration who gets what.

The problem is that this free-market method of rationing health care is very inefficient, and costs us much more than a comprehensive health care system for all.

[coyotes_geek]

That's just it. It isn't like deflating the balloon. It is simply squeezing itin one place, only to see it bulge somewhere else.

Simply cutting back spending is not the solution.

Consider:

Woman "cuts spending" by not taking her blood pressure medication.

After a week, she is rushed to the ER, where more money is spent in the futile attempt to save her life than it would have taken to buy her medicine for the next 60 years.

This is a real, actual result. A story that a surgeon in favor of single payor is rather fond of.

The only way you avoid this, is if you repeal the laws that say "you must treat anybody who comes into the ER, without worrying about whether they can pay or not".

Are you willing to give the uninsured a death sentence?

All wants and needs exceed supply. That is why we have prices. To ration who gets what.

The problem is that this free-market method of rationing health care is very inefficient, and costs us much more than a comprehensive health care system for all.

I've always maintained that a combination of spending cuts and tax increases are necessary. But seeing as how the current debate on the tax increase side at the national level is over whether taxes should be raised on 0% or 2% of the population, it should be fairly obvious to everyone which side of the cuts / taxes equation is going to have to carry the larger burden. Are there going to be painful ramifications from that? Definitely. I think it's inevitable that medicare turns into a voucher program and that there's at least a partial repeal of the laws requiring hospitals to treat everyone who comes into the ER. It's a bleak picture. Sucks to be us.

[RandomGuy]

I've always maintained that a combination of spending cuts and tax increases are necessary. But seeing as how the current debate on the tax increase side at the national level is over whether taxes should be raised on 0% or 2% of the population, it should be fairly obvious to everyone which side of the cuts / taxes equation is going to have to carry the larger burden. Are there going to be painful ramifications from that? Definitely. I think it's inevitable that medicare turns into a voucher program and that there's at least a partial repeal of the laws requiring hospitals to treat everyone who comes into the ER. It's a bleak picture. Sucks to be us.

Pshaw. With the furore over "death panels", I don't see a repeal of those laws.

All you have to do is frame it this way:

"These people wanting to repeal this think that if you don't have insurance, you deserve to bleed to death in the ER. Do you really want the penalty for not having insurance to be death?"

And you have instantly made the subject radioactive, no matter how bad our finances are, unless you have a total fanatic fiscal conservative there who doesn't care about being re-elected, and then have not only that, but a large plurality of that to weather the above criticism.

[SnakeBoy]

You mean if good people around her deliver the message?

I mean if she copys Obama and sticks to the script others write.

[ElNono]

I mean if she copys Obama and sticks to the script others write.

I think if she actually took her political career seriously and actually did take the time to learn how to communicate as well as Dubya/Obama and any other seasoned politician, she would have a shot (honest).
Unfortunately, it's really an ear sore (or unintended comedy, your pick) to listen to her trying to coherently express her thoughts at times.

[SnakeBoy]

Baby doll says let it slide.

And I did. Don't count her out yet WH. Nobody puts baby in a corner.

[Winehole23]

Sarah Palin put herself in the corner, promoting herself relentlessly. Now, too many people have found out what they don't like about her. That's not true of Bachmann. Yet.

[boutons_deux]

"That's not true of Bachmann"

?? Bachmann is WELL-KNOWN, and INfamous for her batshit crazy evangelical-driven/Biblical crap as "politics". Like pitbull bitch, Bachmann is somewhat telegenic with some charisma beyond her dog whistling to "Christian" crazies.

[boutons_deux]

worth repeating:

(1) BACHMANN WARNED ‘THE LION KING’ WAS GAY PROPAGANDA: At the November 2004 EdWatch National Education Conference, Bachmann said the “normalization” of homosexuality would lead to “desensitization”: “Very effective way to do this with a bunch of second graders, is take a picture of ‘The Lion King’ for instance, and a teacher might say, ‘Do you know that the music for this movie was written by a gay man?’ The message is: I’m better at what I do, because I’m gay.”

(2) BACHMANN CLAIMED ABOLISHING THE MINIMUM WAGE WOULD CREATE JOBS: While testifying in front of the Minnesota Senate in 2005, Bachmann said, “Literally, if we took away the minimum wage — if conceivably it was gone — we could potentially virtually wipe out unemployment completely because we would be able to offer jobs at whatever level.” This isn’t remotely true. Even simply reducing the minimum wage would, as Paul Krugman noted, “ at best do nothing for employment; more likely it would actually be contractionary.”

(3) BACHMANN CLAIMED THAT SCIENTISTS ARE SUPPORTERS OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN: During a 2006 debate, Bachmann said,“There are hundreds and hundreds of scientists, many of them holding Nobel Prizes, who believe in intelligent design.” This was, and is, not true.

(4) BACHMANN CLAIMED TERRI SCHIAVO WAS ‘HEALTHY’: Not long after Terri Schiavo died, Bachmann said she would have voted for the Palm Sunday Compromise because Schiavo “was healthy. She had brain damage — there was brain damage, there was no question. But from a health point of view, she was not terminally ill.” An autopsy found that Schiavo had suffered irreversible brain damage and her brain, said the medical examiner, was “profoundly atrophied.”

(5) BACHMANN LIKENED VISITING IRAQ TO VISITING MALL OF AMERICA: In 2007, Bachmann returned from a junket to Iraq and told her colleagues, “[T]here’s a commonality with the Mall of America, in that it’s on that proportion. There’s marble everywhere. The other thing I remarked about was there is water everywhere.” As ThinkProgress documented at the time, the comparison was preposterous.

(6) BACHMANN CLAIMED THAT CARBON DIOXIDE IS ‘HARMLESS’: In 2008, a Stanford scientist revealed “direct links” between increased levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and “increases in human mortality” — globally, he found that as many as “20,000 air-pollution-related deaths per year per degree Celsius may be due to this greenhouse gas.” The next year, Bachmann, who is not a scientist, said that “carbon dioxide is portrayed as harmful. But there isn’t even one study that can be produced that shows that carbon dioxide is a harmful gas.”

(7) BACHMANN CALLED FOR A CONGRESSIONAL WITCH HUNT: Pivoting off the news of Barack Obama’s alleged relationship to former Weather Underground member William Ayers, and his former pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Bachmann accused the candidate of having “anti-American views.” She then suggested that Congressional liberals — including Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid — ought to be subject to “an exposé” by the media because of their views. “I think people would love to see like that,” she told a stunned Chris Matthews.

(8) BACHMANN SUGGESTED GAY SINGER SHOULD REPENT AFTER GETTING CANCER:Bachmann saw Melissa Etheridge’s cancer as a teachable moment: “Unfortunately she is now suffering from breast cancer, so keep her in your prayers,” she said in November 2004. “This may be an opportunity for her now to be open to some spiritual things, now that she is suffering with that physical disease. She is a lesbian.”

(9) BACHMANN BOASTED ABOUT BREAKING THE LAW: In advance of the 2010 national Census, Bachmann told The Washington Times that she would break the law by not completing the forms. “I know for my family, the only question we will be answering is how many people are in our home,” she said. “We won’t be answering any information beyond that, because the Constitution doesn’t require any information beyond that.”

(10) BACHMANN CLAIMED THAT GLENN BECK COULD SOLVE THE DEBT CRISIS: During a February trip to South Carolina, Bachmann told a South Carolina audience, “I think if we give Glenn Beck the numbers, he can solve this [the national debt].”

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/newsandviews/617141

[boutons_deux]

http://citizenship.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341cb34753ef014e892304aa970d-200wi

Dominionist Battle Cry "We are the Head and Not the Tail" Used by Bachmann in Debate

Deuteronomy 28:13, "The Lord will make you the head and not the tail," has been adopted by the apostles and prophets of the New Apostolic Reformation as a theme for the Charismatic "dominionist" movement. The wording is often slightly altered to "We are the head and not the tail," and used as the battle cry for the Reclaiming the Seven Mountains campaign to take dominion over seven areas - arts and entertainment, business, education, family, government, media, and religion.

http://www.religiousrightwatch.com/2011/06/dominionist-battle-cry-we-are-the-head-and-not-the-tail-used-by-bachmann-in-debate.html

[Wild Cobra]

"That's not true of Bachmann"

?? Bachmann is WELL-KNOWN, and INfamous for her batshit crazy evangelical-driven/Biblical crap as "politics". Like pitbull bitch, Bachmann is somewhat telegenic with some charisma beyond her dog whistling to "Christian" crazies.
Is that what you Conspiracy Theorist web sites say?

How many people in the USA pay attention to the same materiel you do?

[boutons_deux]

Bachmann gets plenty play on TV, esp cable channels.

and she'll get more play on media with showings like this:

Republicans Romney and Bachmann lead Iowa poll

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/06/25/republicans-romney-and-bachmann-lead-iowa-poll/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

Calling out the batshit crazy bitch for her batshit crazy positions and batshit crazy "religion"? Plenty easy to follow for any adult who takes his politics seriously.

Of course 50% of America doesn't give a shit about politics, and they pay the price everyday as the Repugs/VRWC fuck America deeper into a hole every day.

[Winehole23]

...isn't a big fan, but Bachmann has certain skills. tURNING GAFFES INTO SYMPATHY, notably.

[Winehole23]

George W Bush is a past master of the discipline, going all the way back to when he beat Ann Richards in 1994.

[boutons_deux]

Bachmann? gaffes? she knows exactly and says exactly what she wants, she dog-whistles with the best, not at all the flubby dubya or the the fractured, confused stream-of-shitness of pitbull bitch.

[boutons_deux]

bitch says NY has the states right to allow gay marriage, but she has the objective to deny states that right, legislating/imposing her bullshit invasive ethics by amending the Constitution

Bachmann would back amendment to overturn NY marriage law

On Sunday, GOP presidential contender Rep. Michele Bachmann said she would support a federal constitutional amendment which would overturn New York state's new law legalizing gay marriage and similar laws in other states.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/168489-bachmann-would-back-amendment-to-overturn-ny-marriage-law

[Wild Cobra]

bitch says NY has the states right to allow gay marriage, but she has the objective to deny states that right, legislating/imposing her bullshit invasive ethics by amending the Constitution

Bachmann would back amendment to overturn NY marriage law

On Sunday, GOP presidential contender Rep. Michele Bachmann said she would support a federal constitutional amendment which would overturn New York state's new law legalizing gay marriage and similar laws in other states.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/168489-bachmann-would-back-amendment-to-overturn-ny-marriage-law
I say we solve the problems for everyone by getting the government out of marriage.

[Winehole23]

Bachmann? gaffes? she knows exactly and says exactly what she wants, she dog-whistles with the best, not at all the flubby dubya or the the fractured, confused stream-of-shitness of pitbull bitch.Six faced Machiavelli, then?

[boutons_deux]

Michele Bachmann Lies About Profiting From Govt Subsidized Dairy Farm

Number two, regarding the farm, the farm is my father-in-law’s farm. It’s not my husband and my farm. It’s my father-in-law’s farm. And my husband and I have never gotten a penny of money from the farm.

Michele Bachmann actually told two lies to Chris Wallace. She claimed that the farm belonged to her father in law, but what she didn’t say is that she was and still is a partner in the farm. Bachmann also stated that she or husband never made a penny from the family dairy farm, but her financial disclosure forms report that from 2006-2009 she made $32,503-$105,000 in profit off of the farm.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/bachmann-dairy-farm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+politicususa%2FfJAl+%28Politi cus+USA+%29

[Wild Cobra]

Michele Bachmann Lies About Profiting From Govt Subsidized Dairy Farm

Number two, regarding the farm, the farm is my father-in-law’s farm. It’s not my husband and my farm. It’s my father-in-law’s farm. And my husband and I have never gotten a penny of money from the farm.

Michele Bachmann actually told two lies to Chris Wallace. She claimed that the farm belonged to her father in law, but what she didn’t say is that she was and still is a partner in the farm. Bachmann also stated that she or husband never made a penny from the family dairy farm, but her financial disclosure forms report that from 2006-2009 she made $32,503-$105,000 in profit off of the farm.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/bachmann-dairy-farm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+politicususa%2FfJAl+%28Politi cus+USA+%29
I think you should note that there were "Farms" under the name of "Bachmann Farm Familiy LP." You should also note the subsidies came for the corn farms, not the dairy farms. The article is about Dairy Farm subsidies.

Her financial statements (http://www.legistorm.com/pfd_office/member/Rep_Michele_Bachmann_MN/823.html) do show profit ranges as listed in the article.