Dirk's fadeaway jumper

[arles]

We have Kareem's sky hook as the most unguardable shot ever.

But after that, is Dirk's onelegged fadeaway jumper the most hard to guard shot in the history of the league?

What other signature shots come to your mind when thinking the top 5 or top 10 of unguardable shots?

I think Dirk's right up there under Kareem's.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18458589/Kareem%20Abdul-Jabbar%20shoots%20a%20sky%20hook%20over%20Xavier%2 0McDaniel.JPG

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18458589/dirk_nowitzki_jumper.jpg

[DMC]

Dirk's fall away on one foot is one of the most unstoppable shots I have ever seen. It's not just that it's a fall away, but he hits the damn thing it seems like every time he shoots it, and he's 7' tall and he arcs the ball better than Fish even. The ball is almost on a vertical travel when it enters the rim.

I would put it right there with Kareem's sky hook. Duncan's bank shot has always been pretty hard to guard as well, up to about 2007.

[Proxy]

Well TD's bank was more of a 1st half shot. He didn't/doesn't rely on it as a go to move like Kareem and Dirk to their respective moves.

[mavsfan1000]

Greatest move ever.

[Axe Murderer]

Duncan's bank shot has always been pretty hard to guard as well, up to about 2007.

I'm curious as to what makes a bank shot harder to guard than any normal set shot.

[mFFL03]

sorry I don't know how to embed youtube:

Sports Science on Dirk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFYxLN5yvwg

[lefty]

I'm curious as to what makes a bank shot harder to guard than any normal set shot.

Just ask Camby, KT, Malone, Horry, Shaq, Amare, Wallace

[lefty]

By the way, I remember Hakeem blocking one of Kareem's sky hook

Dream was a freak

Speaking of him, his turnaround fadeaway is up there too.

[arles]

sorry I don't know how to embed youtube:

Sports Science on Dirk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFYxLN5yvwg

Great Video! Thanks! :toast

[FkLA]

I always thought Timmy's bank shot was overrated. He needs space to get it off and it doesnt really go in often enough for it to be called unstoppable. Its never even been his go to shot tbh, you'd usually see 2-3 attempts (tops) per game. Dirk's fadeaway is up there with KAJ's skyhook and MJ's fadeaway imo.

[diego]

one thing is how difficult to guard the shot is, another how reliable. No one will agree in the wake of a great finals series from dirk, but IMO you can't compare it to a skyhook or a post up or a drive to the basket because those are all close range attacks that put more pressure on the defense. IMO dirk is much more dangerous when he is driving to the basket for a layup then when he is shooting a one footed fadeaway, in fact in this series I seem to recall several clutch baskets from drives and cuts to close out games by Dirk, while I recall a fadeaway brick at the end of game 3(?). People get too caught up on how difficult to guard his jumpshot is. Its still a jumpshot. I wish Dirk had shot nothing but fadeaways instead of driving, then the mavs would still be ringless :lol

[LnGrrrR]

Dirk's fall away on one foot is one of the most unstoppable shots I have ever seen. It's not just that it's a fall away, but he hits the damn thing it seems like every time he shoots it, and he's 7' tall and he arcs the ball better than Fish even. The ball is almost on a vertical travel when it enters the rim.


This. It's insane how often he hits it, and I have no idea how you're supposed to defend it.

[DMC]

I'm curious as to what makes a bank shot harder to guard than any normal set shot.

Who said it was harder?

[Proxy]

I always thought Timmy's bank shot was overrated. He needs space to get it off and it doesnt really go in often enough for it to be called unstoppable. Its never even been his go to shot tbh, you'd usually see 2-3 attempts (tops) per game. Dirk's fadeaway is up there with KAJ's skyhook and MJ's fadeaway imo.

Agreed. I think people want it to be a sig move just because Tim bases his game on fundamentals, and the bank shot personifies that... when in fact, it's never really been a go to move for him, and it's never really been unstoppable.

[DMC]

yeah i dont think DMC get's it
I don't think you get it. "Pretty hard to guard" doesn't mean it's up there with the sky hook. It's also unimportant how often he uses it or how often he makes it. It's hard to guard. Whether or not you should guard it is beside the point as well.

Shaq's one step and dunk, back in the day, was unstoppable.

[DMC]

no it's still obviously you who doesn't get it. a set shot off the glass isn't one of the more "unstoppable" shots in nba history

I didn't say it was. Blake Griffin says it's unstoppable, but what does he know?

What's with the tendency to infer things that were not said? It's right there in black and white. Don't they teach reading comp at UT Arlington?

[mariners]

The difference between the sky hook and Dirk's one legged fadaway it is and can be used often when contested, Duncan's bank set shot is and cannot

[Budkin]

Hakeem Olajuwon's Dream Shake and fadeaway.

[Venti Quattro]

Dirk's fadeaway jumper = swisssshhhhh

Dirk's fadeaway jumper = swaaagggggg

[BlackSwordsMan]

No one can come close to getting Dirk's fade away down. Especially if they're not getting a free throw afterward

[Sportstudi]

sorry I don't know how to embed youtube:

Sports Science on Dirk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFYxLN5yvwg

469 positive ratings on this comment after one week: "why dont they make a sports science episode of why lebron keeps travelling?" :lmao:lmao:lmao

[ambchang]

I'm curious as to what makes a bank shot harder to guard than any normal set shot.

Most defenders are wired to block the area directly between the ball and the hoop. A bank shot travels away at an angle from the hoop (well, it goes towards the backboard), and genearlly has a different trajectory. Defenders just aren't used to guarding it, pretty much like they are not used to guarding southpaws.

With regards to the topic.

Kareem's skyhook
Jordan's fadeaway
Hakeem's dreamshake
Dirk's off-balance fadeaway
McHale's up-and-under
Wade's FTs

[ohmwrecker]

Reggie Miller's fadeaway jumper off a pick/screen is up there.

[jsandiego]

Anyone remember James Edwards' baseline drop-step fade-away jumper??

[ohmwrecker]

no it's still obviously you who doesn't get it. a set shot off the glass isn't one of the more "unstoppable" shots in nba history

Tim Duncan's is . . . I'll take the testimony of every NBA player that's guarded him over yours, Chica.

You got to take into consideration the poker face, jab step, pumpfake . . . if the defender plays him up close he will drive it around for a layup, dunk or a jump hook in the lane.

It may be fundamental and boring, but it has been pretty effective.

"Tim Duncan's bank shot is unstoppable" - Blake Griffin

[ohmwrecker]

Oh . . . George Gervin's fingeroll!

[DAF86]

Shaq's dunks.

[ohmwrecker]

Shaq's dunks.

That drop step dunk . . . pure power.

[Dex]

iosZOijV1a8

Kobe's Stepback Fadeaway is a pretty tough shot to defend as well, since you have to respect his driving ability. The only advantage he doesn't have is the height; he gets up well on his shots, but it sure helps to be 7-feet tall.

[AnthonyM]

Tim Duncan's is . . . I'll take the testimony of every NBA player that's guarded him over yours, Chica.

You got to take into consideration the poker face, jab step, pumpfake . . . if the defender plays him up close he will drive it around for a layup, dunk or a jump hook in the lane.

It may be fundamental and boring, but it has been pretty effective.

"Tim Duncan's bank shot is unstoppable" - Blake Griffin

What you're describing doesn't mean Tim's bank shot was unstoppable, rather that Tim was very hard to guard because he could beat you in so many ways no matter how you played him.

Tim all around as a player was unstoppable in his prime, sure. But that's not the question. The question was what single shots are unstoppable; which to me means, unstoppable because of the position of their bodies and their release points when they shoot, and how efficient they are at doing so.

That's why there is almost literally no way to guard Dirk's fadeaway or Kareem's skyhook. If that was Dirk's only shot in his repertoire, he'd still be able to get it off at any time; same with Kareem. If the bank shot was Tim's only shot, he'd have a much tougher time getting it off because defenders could get up in his face without worrying about Tim passing it out or taking them off the dribble. Doesn't mean he could never get it off, but it'd be far from unstoppable, and far less as effective as we know it to be.

[joshdaboss]

Vince Carter dunks > Dirk Nowitzki fade-aways

[ohmwrecker]

What you're describing doesn't mean Tim's bank shot was unstoppable, rather that Tim was very hard to guard because he could beat you in so many ways no matter how you played him.

Tim all around as a player was unstoppable in his prime, sure. But that's not the question. The question was what single shots are unstoppable; which to me means, unstoppable because of the position of their bodies and their release points when they shoot, and how efficient they are at doing so.

That's why there is almost literally no way to guard Dirk's fadeaway or Kareem's skyhook. If that was Dirk's only shot in his repertoire, he'd still be able to get it off at any time; same with Kareem. If the bank shot was Tim's only shot, he'd have a much tougher time getting it off because defenders could get up in his face without worrying about Tim passing it out or taking them off the dribble. Doesn't mean he could never get it off, but it'd be far from unstoppable, and far less as effective as we know it to be.

Semantics. Shots are defined by the player's who master them. Everyone else in this thread is relating shot to player. Fuck man, it's the goddamn point of the OP.

Thanks for your pointless blather, though. :tu

[AnthonyM]

Semantics. Shots are defined by the player's who master them. Everyone else in this thread is relating shot to player. Fuck man, it's the goddamn point of the OP.

Thanks for your pointless blather, though. :tu

Your example of how unstoppable Duncan's bank shot was consisted of naming other shots, his facial expressions and a jab step. That's taking into account his game, not the shot itself.

His bank shot was stoppable, you said it yourself. If defenders wanted to stop it they'd just get close/in his face, but then he'd drive by you and dunk/lay-it-up (which is a completely different shot)

[ohmwrecker]

Your example of how unstoppable Duncan's bank shot was consisted of naming other shots, his facial expressions and a jab step. That's taking into account his game, not the shot itself.

His bank shot was stoppable, you said it yourself. If defenders wanted to stop it they'd just get close/in his face, but then he'd drive by you and dunk/lay-it-up (which is a completely different shot)

No. The threat of what he could do if the defender closed in adds to the effectiveness of the shot. Execution is the key to an individual player's shot effectiveness.

I suppose the skyhook or the one-leg fadeaway jumper is still just as effective if any random player outside of Kareem and Dirk shoots it? That's a ridiculous assertion. A shot is only as effective or "unstoppable" as the player who employs it.

[Sportstudi]

By the way, I remember Hakeem blocking one of Kareem's sky hook

Dream was a freak

Speaking of him, his turnaround fadeaway is up there too.

I know of three people who managed to block the sky hook at least once (but probably the only time): Hakeem, Wilt and Manute Bol. Maybe there are 1-2 people missing, but I don't think that many.

[Axe Murderer]

so let's recap how many times DMC has moved the goalposts in this thread


Duncan's bank shot has always been pretty hard to guard as well, up to about 2007.


Who said it was harder?

1


I don't think you get it. "Pretty hard to guard" doesn't mean it's up there with the sky hook. It's also unimportant how often he uses it or how often he makes it. It's hard to guard. Whether or not you should guard it is beside the point as well.

Shaq's one step and dunk, back in the day, was unstoppable.

2


I didn't say it was. Blake Griffin says it's unstoppable, but what does he know?

What's with the tendency to infer things that were not said? It's right there in black and white. Don't they teach reading comp at UT Arlington?

3

[endrity]

To me Duncan's signature move was always his rip move, he either gets fouled on that or somehow flicks it in all the time. And unlike the bank shot, he still uses it.

MJ's fadeaway has to be there, as well as the Dream Shake.

But Kobe has a couple too. One is the fadeaway, the other is the one where he fakes the fadeaway, spins, and hits a leaner. Amazing footwork to do that.

Marion's runner has been money all season as well to be honest, but his name doesn't rank with the other guys.

[Bill_Brasky]

To me Duncan's signature move was always his rip move, he either gets fouled on that or somehow flicks it in all the time. And unlike the bank shot, he still uses it.

MJ's fadeaway has to be there, as well as the Dream Shake.

But Kobe has a couple too. One is the fadeaway, the other is the one where he fakes the fadeaway, spins, and hits a leaner. Amazing footwork to do that.

Marion's runner has been money all season as well to be honest, but his name doesn't rank with the other guys.

Not the biggest fan of Kobe but I fucking love that move.

7l053a5oYxc

Crazy good footwork.

[arles]

I always had in mind, when thinking about "unguardable shots", a move that YOU KNOW the offensive player is going to make, but yet you can't stop it.

You knew Kareem was going to use the Sky Hook, but you couldn't guard it.
When Dirks posts up 15-18 feet from the basket, you know he's going to use the one legged fade away jumper... but you still can't reach it, and even if you put a hand in his face it drops touching nothing but net.

Just wanted to clear what I was talking about when I started the thread. The other analysis about Timmay's bankshot or Kareem's dreamshake are very welcome too: great great moves, but I don't think they rank as unguardable: if you focus on that move alone, I think you can guard it.

[jag]

I'm trying to figure out why DMC hasn't deleted his posts yet.

[Jodelo]

I can´t accept that Dirk Nowitzki is one of the best

[Killakobe81]

I dont think you can eliminate the deamshake ...from the convo ...when he was rolling, you knew it was coming and you couldnt stop it. For me, after the skyhook the most unstoppable move ever though dirk's is not far behind ...

I appreciate the respect for Kobe ... but like Duncan i think it was their arsenal of different moves that they had, that made them unguardable in their prime. You guys gave some great examples of some pretty impressive moves they rely on more than most, but unlike Dirk, Hakeem, Mchale, Kareem or even Iceman they don't have that one signature "iconic" move ... but their games are so complete it never hindered either player.

Also special mention for the UTEP 2-step, AI and Isiah's cross-overs, and the James worthy quick baseline spin ...

[endrity]

Not the biggest fan of Kobe but I fucking love that move.

7l053a5oYxc

Crazy good footwork.

That's the one! It takes years to do that. Athletic talent alone can't give you that shot.

[LocosPorJuana]

The dreamshake was a nightmare for the entire league.
I do like Dirk's fadeaway, as it looks dorky in a cool way. Reminds me of the karate kid's signature kick(original Karate kid.)

Sweep the leg, lebron. Dammit lebron you're worthless.

[Venti Quattro]

Why do we have a surge in beaner nicknames after the Mavs clinched the championship?

[Texas Chili Dog]

Why do we have a surge in beaner nicknames after the Mavs clinched the championship?

The Larry O'Brien trophy clinched the Mavs, IMO.

:lobt2:

[DMC]

You came in a thread about the most "unstoppable" shots in NBA history such as kareems sky hook and dirks one legged fadeaway talking about a set bank shot. That's your bad.
You lack basic reading comprehension skills and you do not grasp abstract concepts. You also are a shitty troll.

[DMC]

so let's recap how many times DMC has moved the goalposts in this thread





1



2



3

Anyone who reads the thread can see you are full of shit but anyone who already knows you doesn't need evidence of it.

I haven't moved the goalposts even once.

[DMC]

I'm trying to figure out why DMC hasn't deleted his posts yet.
Speaking of moving goal posts: hows the lolcat search coming along? Did you hire an assistant yet?

[DMC]

The people have spoken. DMC still an ass tbh. :lmao
Yeah but I was on a school of feeding stripers all day. You?

[DMC]

I'm tired and my hands are sore. I caught over 50 fish in 2 hours, some well over 10lbs. That's not an everyday thing but you gotta hit it when it's good.

All but about 5 were on a super spook.

[DMC]

holy shit, i've never experienced something like that. i mostly fish for largemouth and the mos i've probably ever caught in a day is like 7 or 8.
I was fishing for LMB during game 6. I actually had a fish on when the game ended, and I was trying to update my blackberry to see the score and almost lost the rod. 6lbs.

[DMC]

were they doing that crazy popping thing all over the top of the water?
Yes. They were chasing huge bull shad, and the shad were coming out of the water several feet. It was crazy. Put a spook on the edge, walk it a few times and hold on.. WHOOSH....

[Sean Cagney]

Agreed. I think people want it to be a sig move just because Tim bases his game on fundamentals, and the bank shot personifies that... when in fact, it's never really been a go to move for him, and it's never really been unstoppable.

He sure hit is a hell of alot in his prime though, get up on it and stop it but how come most did not in big games when he would use it? That was a shot they knew Tim by, his go to or not he was known for the banker and hit it a great clip.

[pass1st]

Anything AI did after a crossover was unguardable 99% of the time and nobody could keep up with him back in his 76ers days.

Dirk, Kobe, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, AI and quite a few others had unguardable moves in their arsenal.

[DMC]

But Dirk's move isn't going to become guardable, and that's bad for opponents because he's going to keep going to it.

[Reggie Williams]

tbqh Matt Bonner's hookshot is pretty unguardable as well

[pass1st]

Anything Bonner does is unguardable, spreads the floor like butter on toast.

[DMC]

tbqh Matt Bonner's hookshot is pretty unguardable as well
That's because you don't know if he's going to pump fake and take you to the hole.

[Reggie Williams]

either way its unguardable

[DMC]

either way its unguardable
How is it any harder than a set shot?

[jag]

Speaking of moving goal posts: hows the lolcat search coming along? Did you hire an assistant yet?

Was I speaking about moving the goal posts?

Why are you trying so hard? And why haven't you deleted your posts from this thread yet?

[DMC]

Was I speaking about moving the goal posts?

Why are you trying so hard? And why haven't you deleted your posts from this thread yet?
I don't know, I have you on ignore. I just look at one now and then to see if you are still on tilt.

[jag]

I do things based on my clock, not yours.

Now, back to your search, plebe.

:lol remember when I said you were that guy who never seems to realize he's being shit on by everyone?

[DMC]

:lol remember when I said you were that guy who never seems to realize he's being shit on by everyone?
Remember when you said I do nothing but post lolcats and you couldn't find a single post with an lolcat in it that I posted, so you posted a pic of a cow instead and had a couple troll pals come to your rescue? Yeah those were the days. How's the fam? good good.... you still riding with mom to school? Ok... well, tell your parents hi for me and be good.

[jag]

Remember when you said I do nothing but post lolcats and you couldn't find a single post with an lolcat in it that I posted, so you posted a pic of a cow instead and had a couple troll pals come to your rescue? Yeah those were the days. How's the fam?

I find it amusing that your go-to retort is "you accused me of posting lolcat pictures". I honestly think you went back and deleted a lot of your old posts. Or maybe I had you confused with some other shitty poster. In all honesty I really don't care.

At this point, posting lolcat pictures would be a huge upgrade over your unusual and awkward daily posts where youre seemingly oblivious to everyone shitting on you.

[DMC]

tbh, I would rather be named Courtney than OJ, considering..

[jag]

I'm actually intrigued by your bizarre lack of self-awareness.

How many times would you say you get shit on during an average day?

[DMC]

I find it amusing that your go-to retort is "you accused me of posting lolcat pictures". I honestly think you went back and deleted a lot of your old posts. Or maybe I had you confused with some other shitty poster. In all honesty I really don't care.

At this point, posting lolcat pictures would be a huge upgrade over your unusual and awkward daily posts where youre seemingly oblivious to everyone shitting on you.
Define "shitting on you" in forum terms. Tell me exactly how that works unless it's just some meme you have accepted without actually considering what it means. You seem to say it a lot. It must have some great meaning to you, this "forum shitting".

If it's having fun fucking with me, great. I have fun fucking with you because you are a self important shithead. Fucks like you are so fun to rile because you chase me around like a chihuahua trying to nip at me with the "forum shitting" comments.

Then there's the fuckers like Ace who think they found something and try to latch onto it and, like you, follow others around dropping the line all the time. It's amusing to me because he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, and he's totally out in left field jousting windmills.

What is forum shitting?

If it means "you" think others are getting the best of me, then please explain how that works because I am quite entertained by all the bullshit that goes on and don't take any of it seriously. You obviously do.

Also, it's not a go-to retort. You accused me of something and then just acted like you never said it when I challenged you on it. If you think I deleted the posts with lolcats, find someone who quoted me or find the thread you obviously knew existed before the accusation and have Kori verify that I deleted posts from it.

[DMC]

I'm actually intrigued by your bizarre lack of self-awareness.

How many times would you say you get shit on during an average day?

Based on what I think your criteria are, I must have taken a huge Lebron right on your face because I still haven't see the lolcat posts you accused me of making.

[jag]

Remember that time I said you were the guy who never realizes when everyone is shitting on him?

[dunkman]

Dirk's jumper and other offensive arsenal has to rank very high, it's usual for him to score the last Mav's 10 points or something like that. At the end of the game, if it's not garbage time, it's extremely difficult to score, in particular in the playoffs/finals.

[DMC]

Remember that time I said you were the guy who never realizes when everyone is shitting on him?
You don't have an answer. That's what I thought.

0/10

[ohmwrecker]

This is so much worse than Chumper vs TJ.

[Andrew Cunanan]

You don't have an answer. That's what I thought.

0/10

I would appreciate it if you stopped posting.

[jag]

"Everyone talks about how bad I fucking suck. I must not suck."

:lol

[jag]

0/10

rating posts is original

[DMC]

I would appreciate it if you stopped posting.
Find the "ignore" feature in your control panel, corky.

[DMC]

"Everyone talks about how bad I fucking suck. I must not suck."

:lol

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jag



Jag [/URL]

[URL="http://www.urbandictionary.com/products.php?term=Jag&defid=439877"]
(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jag#)
an irritating individual with no sense of a social filter and no realization of the implication of his actions; socially inept.
"Did you hear the ludicrous things that guy was saying? What a jag!"


:lmao

[jag]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jag



Jag [/URL]

[URL="http://www.urbandictionary.com/products.php?term=Jag&defid=439877"]
(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jag#)
an irritating individual with no sense of a social filter and no realization of the implication of his actions; socially inept.
"Did you hear the ludicrous things that guy was saying? What a jag!"


:lmao

You sure showed me.

Pease tell me you're not in your 40's...

[Isitjustme?]

Remember that time I said you were the guy who never realizes when everyone is shitting on him?

:lol

[DMC]

You sure showed me.

Pease tell me you're not in your 40's...

Pease?