2003 Duncan or 2011 Dirk

[Axe Murderer]

who was better in the playoffs?

[Dex]

Duncan.

Both absolutely carried their teams to titles.

Dirk was amazing offensively, but Duncan had both sides on lockdown in 2003. He also didn't have a Jason Kidd to initiate the offense; he had like a sophmore Parker and rookie Ginobili.

[Blake]

Duncan's near quad double leaves little else to discuss.

[jsandiego]

Is this a serious question?

22/20/10/8 in Finals Game 6. Two blocks short of something that's only been done a handful of times in NBA history, and he did it in a Finals-clinching game.

This isn't a serious question... is it?

[Axe Murderer]

yes it is

[baseline bum]

2011 Jason Terry tbh

[dbreiden83080]

:lol

[dbreiden83080]

This isn't a serious question... is it?


An incredibly stupid one..



yes it is

Incredibly stupid..

[lefty]

2003 Duncan of course

[ambchang]

Why are we having all these Mavs players vs. Spurs players discussions?

What's next? 11 Shawn Marion > 78 George Gervin? 11 Kidd > 05 Ginobili? 11 Terry > 07 Parker? 11 Barea > 08 Parker? 11 Chandler > 95 Robinson?

This is just getting beyond stupid.

[SsKSpurs21]

2003 Tim Duncan
#1 in:
Minutes played
Field Goals
Field Goal Attempts
Free Throws
Free Throw Attempts
Offensive Rebounds
Defensive Rebounds
Total Rebounds
Blocks
Points
Blocks Per Game
Offensive Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
Win Shares
Win Shares per 48 mins

2nd in Player Efficiency
2nd in Defensive Rating

Regular season
23.3 points 12.9 rebounds 3.9 assists .7 stls 2.9 blks 51% fg
playoffs
24.7 points 15.4 rebounds 5.3 assists .6 stls 3.3 blks 53% fg

season MVP + Finals MVP

2011 Dirk
not top 5 in ANY category

Regular season
23.0 points 7.0 rebounds 2.6 assists .5 stls .6 blks 51% fg
Playoffs
27.7 points 8.1 rebounds 2.5 assists .6 stls .6 blks 48% fg

Finals MVP

[rasho8]

Welp... case closed there.

[JR3]

Duncan's near quad double leaves little else to discuss.

Yup.

[TD 21]

Obviously, this isn't a serious question. But, to remind Mavs fans who want to pretend Nowitzki's '11 is in the same class as Olajuwon's '94 and Duncan's '03, the difference between Nowitzki's run and theirs is, they had to be the Nowitzki, Chandler AND Kidd for their respective teams, all the while playing significantly more minutes than Nowitzki.

[tenbeersbold]

Flopzitzki is a 7ft jump shooter,there's a reason he'll never be in the same class as Duncan
And anyone ignorant enough to even pose the question should just FO ;)

[ChumpDumper]

This is not going to end well for mav trolls.

[InTheCrust]

:lmao mavfan stirring upstairs pot...
:lmao spurfan for vehemently responding...

but in all seriousness... Duncan 03> Dirk 11

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Flopzitzki is a 7ft jump shooter,there's a reason he'll never be in the same class as Duncan
And anyone ignorant enough to even pose the question should just FO ;)

In fairness, Dirk was a seven foot jumper shooter mostly for the first half of his career when he was rightly labeled as soft when guys at least six inches shorter were able to guard him effectively. In the years since he's actually started using his size to attack the hoop. If you watched him in the playoffs he's still got that jumper in his arsenal but he was just as likely (if not more so) to put the ball on the floor and drive or to work from the post. He's more likely to be shooting an off balance fadeaway from 8 feet out instead of 18.

ETA: Duncan 03. Quite obvious.

[Agloco]

who was better in the playoffs?

Really?

I don't blame you though BUMP. You're experiencing that post-championship euphoria for the first time. It clouds the judgement quite a bit.

[Dr House]

Really?

I don't blame you though BUMP. You're experiencing that post-championship euphoria for the first time. It clouds the judgement quite a bit.

you must be new here

[Agloco]

you must be new here

I must be.......

[PublicOption]

Is this a serious question?

22/20/10/8 in Finals Game 6. Two blocks short of something that's only been done a handful of times in NBA history, and he did it in a Finals-clinching game.

This isn't a serious question... is it?



..............and compare that to Lechoke James.

Rick Carisle said dirk was only 11 players to go to 10 allstars/mvp of league and finals........he named every player except you guessed it-TD:p:.......Tim get no respect.....at least we love him.

[Amarelooms]

Dirk lead a bunch of clowns to a title...he had no Parker or Ginobili...Duncan had easier time and more help no doubt

:elephant

[Chief]

Is it true that if you don't use it, you lose it ?

[Texas_Ranger]

Dirk lead a bunch of clowns to a title...he had no Parker or Ginobili...Duncan had easier time and more help no doubt

:elephant

2nd year Tony and a rookie Manu is really bad ass!! :ihit

[jjktkk]

Why are we having all these Mavs players vs. Spurs players discussions?

What's next? 11 Shawn Marion > 78 George Gervin? 11 Kidd > 05 Ginobili? 11 Terry > 07 Parker? 11 Barea > 08 Parker? 11 Chandler > 95 Robinson?

This is just getting beyond stupid.

Bump with the goods.

[Leetonidas]

This is kinda like comparing 2000 Shaq to 2006 Wade. They both were spectacular but Shaq was just flat out in another atmosphere. Same with Duncan.

C'mon BUMP

[Axe Murderer]

This is kinda like comparing 2000 Shaq to 2006 Wade. They both were spectacular but Shaq was just flat out in another atmosphere. Same with Duncan.

C'mon BUMP

:tu

best way to put it

i know this will come as a shock to some, but this was a troll thread. Obviously 03 Duncan was better

This whole site was all over Dirk's nuts a week ago so i wanted to see how quickly people would revert back to trashing him by defending Duncan

[ohmwrecker]

i know this will come as a shock to some, but this was a troll thread.

:wow

[Sean Cagney]

DUNCAN NO QUESTION AT ALL!......... Dude was a fucking nightmare on both ends of the floor.

[Ghazi]

:lol Amarelooms

:lol quitting on the Mavs in January

[crc21209]

Duncan.

Both absolutely carried their teams to titles.

Dirk was amazing offensively, but Duncan had both sides on lockdown in 2003. He also didn't have a Jason Kidd to initiate the offense; he had like a sophmore Parker and rookie Ginobili.

This pretty much sums it all up. Dirk carried his team on offensive, but had veteran guys like Kidd, Chandler, Stevenson, Terry, and Marion to help him along the way. Duncan dominated in every facet of the game with a rookie Manu who only played half the season, a sophomore TP, an over the hill at the end of the road D-Rob. S-Jax was also a question mark coming into the season.

[MannyIsGod]

Mav fan. I understand you're happy. You should be. I hope the parade was bad ass. Please stop with the stupid questions.

2003 Duncan? I mean what the fuck? Of all years 2003??!?!?

[spursfan09]

Maybe a better comparison:

2007 Duncan and 2011 Dirk.

Oh and if Duncan doesn't play all those long ass seasons into June and stays home resting like Dirk did that whole time, Duncan doesn't have as much wear and tear on his body and a 2011 Duncan and 2011 Dirk are even.

[Blake]

Oh and if Duncan doesn't play all those long ass seasons into June and stays home resting like Dirk did that whole time, Duncan doesn't have as much wear and tear on his body and a 2011 Duncan and 2011 Dirk are even.

:lmao

[FromWayDowntown]

Understanding that this isn't really a debate, I'll add that I've always thought that the thing that was most impressive about Tim's playoff run in 2003 was how diversely monsterous his numbers were from series to series.

In the First Round, when Phoenix was relentlessly doubling him, he played defense and rebounded and then passed effectively out of doubles. He didn't score much, but he did score efficiently. Against LA in the WCSF, he was much more of a scorer -- taking 8 more shots per game than the 12.2 FGA/gm he had against Phoenix -- while remaining an effective passer and rebounder.

I've thought for a long time that Tim's 2003 WCF was his best playoff series ever -- he scored often and efficiently, he rebounded like a beast, he averaged almost 6 assists per game and he blocked 3 shots per game. His worst game in the 2003 WCF was Game 6, when he scored 18, grabbed 11 rebounds, had 4 assists and 3 blocks. His best? Maybe the 40-15-7 he threw up in Game 1? or perhaps it was the 34-24-6-6 he had in Game 3.

In all, he had 4 games in which he went 20-20 and in each of those he had at least 6 assists.

He had two triple-doubles (Game 6 at Phoenix (15-20-10), and Game 6 against NJ (famously)).

He had 22 double-doubles (he missed in Game 1 against LA (8 rebounds) and Game 4 at LA (9 rebounds).

He had 18 games with at least 20 points, 10 games of 25+, and 6 games with 30+.

He had 6 games during that run with at least 20 rebounds and 14 games with at least 15 rebounds.

He had 13 games with at least 6 assists. He had 9 games with at least 4 blocks.

By series:

Round 1 v. PNX
42.7 mpg, 52% from field; 16.0 rpg (4.7 off; 11.3 def), 5.2 apg, 3.5 bpg, 18.7 ppg

Round 2 v. LAL
40.3 mpg, 53% from field, 11.8 rpg (2.8 off; 9.0 def), 4.8 apg, 1.3 bpg, 28.0 ppg

Round 3 v. DAL
43.3 mpg, 57% from field, 16.7 rpg (4.7 off; 12.0 def.), 5.8 apg, 3.0 bpg, 28.0 ppg

FINALS v. NJ
43.8 mpg, 50% from field, 17.0 rpg (3.8 off; 13.2 def.), 5.3 apg, 5.3 bpg, 24.2 ppg

[Leetonidas]

Understanding that this isn't really a debate, I'll add that I've always thought that the thing that was most impressive about Tim's playoff run in 2003 was how diversely monsterous his numbers were from series to series.

In the First Round, when Phoenix was relentlessly doubling him, he played defense and rebounded and then passed effectively out of doubles. He didn't score much, but he did score efficiently. Against LA in the WCSF, he was much more of a scorer -- taking 8 more shots per game than the 12.2 FGA/gm he had against Phoenix -- while remaining an effective passer and rebounder.

I've thought for a long time that Tim's 2003 WCF was his best playoff series ever -- he scored often and efficiently, he rebounded like a beast, he averaged almost 6 assists per game and he blocked 3 shots per game. His worst game in the 2003 WCF was Game 6, when he scored 18, grabbed 11 rebounds, had 4 assists and 3 blocks. His best? Maybe the 40-15-7 he threw up in Game 1? or perhaps it was the 34-24-6-6 he had in Game 3.

In all, he had 4 games in which he went 20-20 and in each of those he had at least 6 assists.

He had two triple-doubles (Game 6 at Phoenix (15-20-10), and Game 6 against NJ (famously)).

He had 22 double-doubles (he missed in Game 1 against LA (8 rebounds) and Game 4 at LA (9 rebounds).

He had 18 games with at least 20 points, 10 games of 25+, and 6 games with 30+.

He had 6 games during that run with at least 20 rebounds and 14 games with at least 15 rebounds.

He had 13 games with at least 6 assists. He had 9 games with at least 4 blocks.

By series:

Round 1 v. PNX
42.7 mpg, 52% from field; 16.0 rpg (4.7 off; 11.3 def), 5.2 apg, 3.5 bpg, 18.7 ppg

Round 2 v. LAL
40.3 mpg, 53% from field, 11.8 rpg (2.8 off; 9.0 def), 4.8 apg, 1.3 bpg, 28.0 ppg

Round 3 v. DAL
43.3 mpg, 57% from field, 16.7 rpg (4.7 off; 12.0 def.), 5.8 apg, 3.0 bpg, 28.0 ppg

FINALS v. NJ
43.8 mpg, 50% from field, 17.0 rpg (3.8 off; 13.2 def.), 5.3 apg, 5.3 bpg, 24.2 ppg

:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

God damn Tim was a fucking monster in 2003. What's most impressive to me is his amazing rebounding numbers, his insane blocks (especially in the Finals, didn't he set the record at the time for most blocks in a Finals series?), but most of all, his assist numbers are amazing for a big man. The game will truly, truly be missing one of the most complete players the NBA has ever seen when Tim retires. :depressed

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

And somehow through that entire 2003 run just about every damn game I'd watch Tim cruise right along doing his thing and still have my jaw drop when they'd show his stat line in the fourth quarter. I'd been watching every second of the game and feel like an idiot for it. "Tim's got ___ points? When did that happen?" I know consistency was always Tim's calling card but the way his dominance just sort of blended all together not only from game to game but quarter to quarter, minute to minute blew me away. There's not any big killer 4th quarter takeovers that spring to mind immediately like a few from the other title runs. Tim just did every damn thing for 40 solid minutes every night. Get the Spurs off to a good start? 4 down. Need to get a hoop to stop the opponents run? 4 down. Time to ice the game? 4 down.

[Agloco]

This whole site was all over Dirk's nuts a week ago so i wanted to see how quickly people would revert back to trashing him by defending Duncan

How's defending 2003 Duncan trashing Dirk in any way?

Defending 2011 Duncan? Yeah.

[jsandiego]

2003 Tim Duncan
#1 in:
Minutes played
Field Goals
Field Goal Attempts
Free Throws
Free Throw Attempts
Offensive Rebounds
Defensive Rebounds
Total Rebounds
Blocks
Points
Blocks Per Game
Offensive Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
Win Shares
Win Shares per 48 mins

2nd in Player Efficiency
2nd in Defensive Rating

Regular season
23.3 points 12.9 rebounds 3.9 assists .7 stls 2.9 blks 51% fg
playoffs
24.7 points 15.4 rebounds 5.3 assists .6 stls 3.3 blks 53% fg

season MVP + Finals MVP

2011 Dirk
not top 5 in ANY category

Regular season
23.0 points 7.0 rebounds 2.6 assists .5 stls .6 blks 51% fg
Playoffs
27.7 points 8.1 rebounds 2.5 assists .6 stls .6 blks 48% fg

Finals MVP

/thread

[Axe Murderer]

lol i forgot how douchey the "/thread" replies are

i could easily do teengks like dis

"let me know when Duncan scores 48 points on 12-15 shooting while making all 24 free throws

/thread"

and hopefully people will think I'm cool and winning the debate

[sefant77]

2011 Dirk
not top 5 in ANY category

Regular season
23.0 points 7.0 rebounds 2.6 assists .5 stls .6 blks 51% fg
Playoffs
27.7 points 8.1 rebounds 2.5 assists .6 stls .6 blks 48% fg

Finals MVP

averaging 10 points in the 4th quarter on a high shooting percentage

[Proxy]

lol i forgot how douchey the "/thread" replies are

i could easily do teengks like dis

"let me know when Duncan scores 48 points on 12-15 shooting while making all 24 free throws

/thread"

and hopefully people will think I'm cool and winning the debate

You're going to make a troll thread, and then get butt-hurt over the responses?

[DMC]

lol i forgot how douchey the "/thread" replies are

i could easily do teengks like dis

"let me know when Duncan scores 48 points on 12-15 shooting while making all 24 free throws

/thread"

and hopefully people will think I'm cool and winning the debate
You're shitting on everyone here.

[Danny.Zhu]

2003 Duncan >>>> 2011 Dirk = 2008 Duncan > 2009 Duncan > 2010 Duncan > 2011 Duncan

[Sean Cagney]

lol i forgot how douchey the "/thread" replies are

i could easily do teengks like dis

"let me know when Duncan scores 48 points on 12-15 shooting while making all 24 free throws

/thread"

and hopefully people will think I'm cool and winning the debate

Yep thats one game though, he did better scoring and a higher PCT for one game! How is that 03 Duncan to 11 Dirk? You could put that up and win a game debate, but all around game in the years you posted Tim got this. He did score less in the playoffs by about 2 pts, but he did everything else better that year. Tims finals was better as well.
averaging 10 points in the 4th quarter on a high shooting percentage

So Dirk has the 48 pt game which was higher than Tims that year and probably more pts in the 4th Quarter, he has those two while Tim has everything else they posted above as far as the stats. Tim all the way.

[TDMVPDPOY]

I TAKE UP ANY season of duncans besides the last 4 seasons over any season of dirk...

[Leetonidas]

lol i forgot how douchey the "/thread" replies are

i could easily do teengks like dis

"let me know when Duncan scores 48 points on 12-15 shooting while making all 24 free throws

/thread"

and hopefully people will think I'm cool and winning the debate

/thread

[DieMrBond]

They have this topic over at inside hoops, but they have added hakeems 94 (i think) finals run into the argument.

I shit you not, but the majority rank Dirk first, followed by Hakeem with Duncan a very distant third. Huh?

[Russo21]

ESPN article: Greatest Finals performances of all time:

3. Tim Duncan, San Antonio, 2003

The single most underrated Finals performance of all time, hands down, belongs to Duncan in 2003.



Relatively few viewers saw it because of the Spurs-Nets pairing, and because of the general consensus that the East was something of a minor league. But Duncan was unbelievable.



Despite going up against two top-notch defensive players in Kenyon Martin and Dikembe Mutombo, and despite lacking a superstar teammate to deflect attention (Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili were just getting their feet wet, while David Robinson was on his way out), Duncan completely dominated. His averages of 24.2 points, 17.0 boards and 5.3 assists were impressive enough, but what really sealed the deal was his defense.


Duncan averaged 5.3 blocks per game for the series, the most of any player since the merger, and was at his best in the clinching Game 6 as San Antonio rallied from an eight-point fourth-quarter deficit. He fell two blocks shy of a quadruple-double and forced the Nets' Martin into a 3-for-23 disaster from the floor. Overall, his 32.0 PER for the series is the second-best since the merger.


Hands down 2003 Duncan with no need for further debate

[Blake]

ESPN article: Greatest Finals performances of all time:

3. Tim Duncan, San Antonio, 2003

The single most underrated Finals performance of all time, hands down, belongs to Duncan in 2003.



Relatively few viewers saw it because of the Spurs-Nets pairing, and because of the general consensus that the East was something of a minor league. But Duncan was unbelievable.



Despite going up against two top-notch defensive players in Kenyon Martin and Dikembe Mutombo, and despite lacking a superstar teammate to deflect attention (Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili were just getting their feet wet, while David Robinson was on his way out), Duncan completely dominated. His averages of 24.2 points, 17.0 boards and 5.3 assists were impressive enough, but what really sealed the deal was his defense.


Duncan averaged 5.3 blocks per game for the series, the most of any player since the merger, and was at his best in the clinching Game 6 as San Antonio rallied from an eight-point fourth-quarter deficit. He fell two blocks shy of a quadruple-double and forced the Nets' Martin into a 3-for-23 disaster from the floor. Overall, his 32.0 PER for the series is the second-best since the merger.


Hands down 2003 Duncan with no need for further debate

/thread #5

[endrity]

I agree. 02 and 03 Duncan was another level. No PF has ever come close to that peak.

[Leetonidas]

It was so amazing watching him back then. He quietly controlled and dominated and instilled his will upon the game without you really noticing it. Now that he is older and slower, it is painfully obvious how much we miss his youth. If 2003 Tim Duncan was on the 2011 Spurs team they probably destroy the regular season and smash through the playoffs.

He made it look so easy. His ability to control the floor on both sides of the court at an elite level is something that has not be replicated recently. Garnett is close but his overall offensive game doesn't touch Tim's post game.

[ambchang]

While I agree Duncan's 03 finals was one of the best performances ever, I have issue with that Hollinger list simply because he placed Wade #1. I mean, the reason he "dominanted" was because of the insane amount of FTs he got, and we all know they are not all legit. Placing him above 03 Duncan, 01 Shaq, 93 Jordan, 94 Hakeem, etc ... is really stretching it.

[endrity]

It was so amazing watching him back then. He quietly controlled and dominated and instilled his will upon the game without you really noticing it. Now that he is older and slower, it is painfully obvious how much we miss his youth. If 2003 Tim Duncan was on the 2011 Spurs team they probably destroy the regular season and smash through the playoffs.

He made it look so easy. His ability to control the floor on both sides of the court at an elite level is something that has not be replicated recently. Garnett is close but his overall offensive game doesn't touch Tim's post game.

BLASPHEMY! I am not even kidding.

[endrity]

While I agree Duncan's 03 finals was one of the best performances ever, I have issue with that Hollinger list simply because he placed Wade #1. I mean, the reason he "dominanted" was because of the insane amount of FTs he got, and we all know they are not all legit. Placing him above 03 Duncan, 01 Shaq, 93 Jordan, 94 Hakeem, etc ... is really stretching it.

He does mentioned the FTs a bit. But the point is, he's measuring PERs, and when you score so much with so little shooting (because FTs don't count as FGs) then you can see why his PER is so absurd.

[Axe Murderer]

While I agree Duncan's 03 finals was one of the best performances ever, I have issue with that Hollinger list simply because he placed Wade #1. I mean, the reason he "dominanted" was because of the insane amount of FTs he got, and we all know they are not all legit. Placing him above 03 Duncan, 01 Shaq, 93 Jordan, 94 Hakeem, etc ... is really stretching it.

[/thread]

[Leetonidas]

BLASPHEMY! I am not even kidding.

What? In terms of being able to anchor an elite defensive and being a #1 scoring option on the other end, the only other play I can think of in this generation is KG. Perhaps not an anchor but he was extremely versatile and could guard big and small guys. Don't even say Kobe Bryant if that's what you're thinking, because while his offensive game is top notch and he USED to be an elite perimeter defender (not since 2004), he definitely wasn't a defensive anchor.

[endrity]

KG's offense was nothing special even at his best. Think of him as an upgraded version of Chris Bosh and that's it. And even as a defender, KG was at his best as a help defender, especially on pick and rolls. But he was not a great post defender, someone who would own the area around the rim. That become painfully obvious when Perkins went down.

But then again, Duncan is close to a center and KG is not.

[100%duncan]

:lmao