All Time NBA Draft

[Greg Oden]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/draft/ultimate/draft-results.html?hpt=hp_c2

>Russell over Kareem, Hakeem, and Shaq

>Dirk in the 5th round

[BevoMav]

Russell was the most over rated center in NBA history. He has 11 rings and played with nearly that many hall of fame players. Wilt owned his ass..

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Russell was the most over rated center in NBA history. He has 11 rings and played with nearly that many hall of fame players. Wilt owned his ass..
Wilt was also a better defender. He blocked more shots and yanked down more rebounds. Plus, Wilt never fouled out on personals. That latter talent can never be understated. You expect active defenders to pick up fouls, but Wilt was too smart, and too athletic. Put Russell on the New York Knicks of that era and not even the fame of the Big Apple would make us remember him. Those Knicks sucked and Russell would be ringless. Wilt could play anywhere and rack up the offensive and defensive stats.

[jag]

The Admiral at No. 20. I see you, Dave

[dirk4mvp]

The Admiral at No. 20. I see you, Dave

Luckily dude picked MJ first so David could have a superstar to ride, in my humble opinion.

[jag]

Luckily dude picked MJ first so David could have a superstar to ride, in my humble opinion.

David was an incredible basketball player and an even better human being.

You know a draft is wack as hell when Dave Cowens and Willis Reed go before Dirk.

[Axe Murderer]

_jag ur a fag

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Hopefully D-Rob doesn't chase MJ around with a bible tbh.

[Axe Murderer]

Lol I know right? And yeah it's the same one that you saw me with last weekend at the lounge lol...but real talk though, she is actually pretty cool bro. We do our thing and stuff but we still have that agreement that we can still do what we wanna do. And I've been here since yesterday, it's pretty chill here bro, better than sitting at home all by myself thats for sure

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

GOD FUCKlNG DAMMIT OLIVER NORTH'S WALL IS NO LONGER VIEWABLE BY ANYONE :madrun:madrun:madrun

[Axe Murderer]

Yep....But she's cool bro, I know she 's not a perfect ten bro lol, but you never know one day bro, that could change soon because I've seen her old pictures and she was looked even better! Lol

[Axe Murderer]

GOD FUCKlNG DAMMIT OLIVER NORTH'S WALL IS NO LONGER VIEWABLE BY ANYONE :madrun:madrun:madrun

u gotta add him now tbh

[Nathan89]

:lmao Kobe going before Timmy. You can't honestly think you can build a better team around a selfish player.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Some fuckin faggot on ST prolly messaged Oly North telling him people were making fun of his statuses

[Axe Murderer]

doubtful

he would make about 7 statuses in 30 minutes if that would've happened

[TE]

All Richard Deitsch does is win.

[TE]

How in the fuck does Steve Nash go before Dirk?

LOL

[Nathan89]

Nabbing the best power forward in history at No. 10? Fools.


Very smart man.


Only a handful of players in NBA history a) want the ball with the game on the line and b) can convert when they get it. Kobe is one of them.



This guy clearly doesn't know the facts about Kobe in the clutch. Fucking idiot.

[DirkDoesWork]

1. Greg Oden

[Nathan89]

:lmao Blake Griffin #114

[TE]

:lmao Blake Griffin #114

Apparently he is one of the all-time greats with a season under his belt.

[Nathan89]

:lmao
#94Andrei Kirilenko
#95Kevin Durant

[TE]

lol #75 Tracy "I can't get out of the first round" Mcgrady

[dirk4mvp]

If everybody's in their prime, T-Mac probably should've been higher. He was one of the best pure scorers in history.

This is a draft, not a ranking of best players of all time.

[DirkDoesWork]

When T-Mac was healthy, which was a rare occasion, he was better than Kobe. True story.

[Nathan89]

When T-Mac was healthy, which was a rare occasion, he was better than Kobe. True story.

Kobe is overrated but I wouldn't go so far to say this.

[Axe Murderer]

When T-Mac was healthy, which was a rare occasion, he was better than Kobe. True story.

http://cdn01.cdn.socialitelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/situation-donald-trump-roast-03112011-lead.jpg

[Shane27]

T-Mac was better than kobe. Just didn't have the same will kobe does, plus the injuries

[DAF86]

T-Mac was better than kobe. Just didn't have the same will kobe does, plus the injuries

So, what you're saying is that he wasn't better than Kobe.

[Amaso]

When T-Mac was healthy, which was a rare occasion, he was better than Kobe. True story.

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif

[FkLA]

Prime Tmac was a better scorer than Kobe tbh. He just didnt have Kobe's defense and drive to be the best. Or Shaq by his side. People talk shit because Tmac didnt get out of the 1st round but neither did Kobe w/o Shaq and MVPau. Nothing wrong with Dirk in the 5th round either, he's a 4th rounder at best...every person that follows basketball other than the most biased fanbase in the NBA (Mavs) realizes that.

[Slo spurs fan]

Nobody took Dražen Petrović????
I guess he died too young....

[Leetonidas]

Tim should be higher and lol @ Dirk in the 5th round. I understand these guys are building a team with their picks but I find it hard to believe anyone would take Dave Cowens over Dirk Nowitzki

[djohn2oo8]

T-Mac was close with Kobe in 03-04 I believe it was. He had the tools to be better, he was just content on letting his natural talent get him by.

[jag]

_jag ur a fag

David Robinson is an amazing human being.

[dirk4mvp]

Prime Tmac was a better scorer than Kobe tbh. He just didnt have Kobe's defense and drive to be the best. Or Shaq by his side. People talk shit because Tmac didnt get out of the 1st round but neither did Kobe w/o Shaq and MVPau. Nothing wrong with Dirk in the 5th round either, he's a 4th rounder at best...every person that follows basketball other than the most biased fanbase in the NBA (Mavs) realizes that.

People enjoy your posts and care about what you have to say.

[resistanze]

LOL @ wasting the #3 draft pick.

[DAF86]

LOL @ wasting the #3 draft pick.

Dude won this :lobt2:, I think.

[dirk4mvp]

There are several options at C better than Russell that were picked after him.

[redzero]

The mythical beast known as Orlando T-Mac is easily one of the greatest to ever lace em up.

[DAF86]

Dude won this :lobt2:, I think.

I must clarify that I was talking about the guy drafting winning the simulated tournament.

[resistanze]

There are several options at C better than Russell that were picked after him.

Sorry, I prefer rings and class over actual talent and ability for MY draft.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I wouldn't go that far, but it is mostly true. The real secret of success for those Celtic teams was Red Auerbach. Phenomenal coach, all time greatest coach. He turned last place teams into contenders and made the best draft picks. Russell was a great player, his offense is overrated, but the Celtics were constantly getting lucky and Red always drafted the best players in entire drafts with the late picks. The secret for that was that Red was so well connected he called up coaches about players they have seen across the country. The NCAA was a regional game back then, not as popular nationally as it is today. On top of that the NBA didn't really have scouts of any kind so some draft picks were shots in the dark. If I am not mistaken Red Auerbach actually never saw Russell play a game before he drafted him. Not TV, not live, not in high school, not at San Francisco, not for team USA. He just went based off a trusted friend.
Absolutely Red Auerbach is the main reason for the Celtics' success, yet as the years go on, Russell is getting the credit.


Looking at the actual teams made in the all-time draft, the guy that drafted Wilt ran away with it. I don't even need to look at the other teams.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/draft/ultimate/posnanski.html

You have two potiential greatest players of all-time depending on who you ask with Wilt and Dr.J.

Before you guys get on me on Dr. J being the greatest of all time, I don't personally believe that, but I know people that saw him with the Nets and Squires of the ABA before his knees were injured and they told me he was the most amazing defensive and offenive player with the most increible athletic ability they had ever seen. That included Jordan. I've been told that the amazing Erving highlights we see on hardwood classics when Erving was in his late 20s was with bad knees and such mazing plays would happen two or three times a night.

Keep in mind, the ABA actually became just as good as the NBA back around 73. Dr. J was a main reason the merger happened because he was by far the best player in the world (that includes Kareem).

Contrary to Russell, the years have not been kind to Dr. J.'s legacy. He is more known for losing his first 3 finals and needing Moses Malone to finally win it all. Largely forgotten is the fact he won his first 3 playoff series against the Boston Celtics, beatng both Havlicek/Cowens/White, and Larry Bird, twice, the second when Larry had McHale and Parish. Plus, Boston was NBA champion in two of those series. What other great player beat Boston his first 3 series? Isiaih Thomas beat Boston a few times but didn't win his first.

Julius Erving, along with Oscar Robertson, belong in a top 10 discussion. Both are better than Bill Russell and both have been forgotten by the current generation who buy into Russell's 11 championships and the current trend favoring Tim, Hakeem, Shaq, and Kobe. Rather sad when the worst of the old players, Russell, sidesteps so many clearly better players of both the old and newer generations.

The rest of the draft list has many LOLs in it. I can't believe they placed Rajon Rondo in top 100. He's had two good years, 2009 and 2010. He was a ok in 2011, but a headcase nonetheless. Plus, his 2010 finals play was pretty poor.

[LnGrrrR]

Wilt was also a better defender. He blocked more shots and yanked down more rebounds. Plus, Wilt never fouled out on personals. That latter talent can never be understated. You expect active defenders to pick up fouls, but Wilt was too smart, and too athletic. Put Russell on the New York Knicks of that era and not even the fame of the Big Apple would make us remember him. Those Knicks sucked and Russell would be ringless. Wilt could play anywhere and rack up the offensive and defensive stats.

You make it sound as if Wilt was saddled with no other all-stars on the roster. Sure, Celtics had more, but Wilt had some decent talent when he got to the Lakers (even if the core was aging).

Also, while your statement about Chamberlain grabbing more rebounds is true, he only averaged .4 more rebounds per game over the course of their careers. So not an overwhelming difference.

I'm not saying Wilt wasn't better than Russell, but your assertion that Russell would be a nobody in New York seems a bit hyperbolic.

[LnGrrrR]

And yeah, I would think Posnanski's team would run away with it. How did Dwight Howard end up going in the 6th round?

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

You make it sound as if Wilt was saddled with no other all-stars on the roster. Sure, Celtics had more, but Wilt had some decent talent when he got to the Lakers (even if the core was aging).

Also, while your statement about Chamberlain grabbing more rebounds is true, he only averaged .4 more rebounds per game over the course of their careers. So not an overwhelming difference.

I'm not saying Wilt wasn't better than Russell, but your assertion that Russell would be a nobody in New York seems a bit hyperbolic.
Well, Wilt's Lakers had a better chance in 1969, they just counted their chickens before they hatched, that's all documented.

Rebound totals are correct, but blocked shots weren't tallied back then and from those that witnessed things, Wilt had more. Chamberlain is 4th all time in career triple doubles. He would be a lot higher for all those 10+ blocked shots games he didn't get credit for. Plus, you can't discount Chamberlain's talent of defending and not fouling. Wilt averaged just under 2 personal fouls a game, and he usually played all 48 minutes. (46 MPG average) Russell averaged 2.7 fouls per game, he averaged 42 minutes a game. Russell may have rebounded at a slightly better clip per minute than wilt did, but Russell could not stop Chamberlain from scoring against him at will. Wilt could stop Bill, who wasn't much of a threat offensively. Chamberlain also played with some great rebounding forwards, Happy Hairston, Bill Bridges, C/F Nate Thurmond that all averaged double digit rebounds per game. Not saying Russell didn't, but Wilt had plenty of help cleaning the boards and competing for individual stats, just not the complete teams Russell had.

Ever hear of Walt Bellamay? Few here have I'd wager.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bellawa01.html

A career 20 ppg player, scored and rebounded better earlier in his career. He played briefly for the Knicks, and few remember him. Until the Knicks got Reed, Frazier, Debusschere, and Bradley, they were the laughing stock of the NBA. Russell on the Knicks would not have made a difference and his lack of offense and no championships would have doomed him to obscurity as has befallen Bellamy.

[Amaso]

Looking at the actual teams made in the all-time draft, the guy that drafted Wilt ran away with it. I don't even need to look at the other teams.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/draft/ultimate/posnanski.html

You have two potiential greatest players of all-time depending on who you ask with Wilt and Dr.J.



http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/7193/tomcruise.gif

[LnGrrrR]

Rebound totals are correct, but blocked shots weren't tallied back then and from those that witnessed things, Wilt had more. Chamberlain is 4th all time in career triple doubles. He would be a lot higher for all those 10+ blocked shots games he didn't get credit for. Plus, you can't discount Chamberlain's talent of defending and not fouling. Wilt averaged just under 2 personal fouls a game, and he usually played all 48 minutes. (46 MPG average) Russell averaged 2.7 fouls per game, he averaged 42 minutes a game. Russell may have rebounded at a slightly better clip per minute than wilt did, but Russell could not stop Chamberlain from scoring against him at will. Wilt could stop Bill, who wasn't much of a threat offensively. Chamberlain also played with some great rebounding forwards, Happy Hairston, Bill Bridges, C/F Nate Thurmond that all averaged double digit rebounds per game. Not saying Russell didn't, but Wilt had plenty of help cleaning the boards and competing for individual stats, just not the complete teams Russell had.

I'm a bit too young to have seen them play a great deal, so I can't really speak for which one was more dominant defensively. Statswise, I'd say Wilt definitely has the advantage.



Ever hear of Walt Bellamay? Few here have I'd wager.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bellawa01.html

A career 20 ppg player, scored and rebounded better earlier in his career. He played briefly for the Knicks, and few remember him. Until the Knicks got Reed, Frazier, Debusschere, and Bradley, they were the laughing stock of the NBA. Russell on the Knicks would not have made a difference and his lack of offense and no championships would have doomed him to obscurity as has befallen Bellamy.

Averaging 20+ ppg is more noteworthy than averaging 20+ rpg. As well, checking his statistics page, he BARELY makes 20 ppg (career avg 20.1), and those are inflated by his first few years in the league.

Bellamy was a good rebounder, 8th on the all-time list with 13.65 per game. But Wilt and Russell are just so far above everyone else when it comes to rebounding it's not even fair. Wilt avg'd 22.89, Russell 22.45, and the next closest is Bob Pettit at 16.22.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I'm a bit too young to have seen them play a great deal, so I can't really speak for which one was more dominant defensively. Statswise, I'd say Wilt definitely has the advantage.




Averaging 20+ ppg is more noteworthy than averaging 20+ rpg. As well, checking his statistics page, he BARELY makes 20 ppg (career avg 20.1), and those are inflated by his first few years in the league.

Bellamy was a good rebounder, 8th on the all-time list with 13.65 per game. But Wilt and Russell are just so far above everyone else when it comes to rebounding it's not even fair. Wilt avg'd 22.89, Russell 22.45, and the next closest is Bob Pettit at 16.22.
You're a cool guy and I am not trying to pick on you about your player, Russell. All I am saying is, you have pretty close to even defenders in Wilt and Russell, but you have the offense in Wilt. The only player Wilt couldn't defend was Kareem, and likewise Kareem couldn't stop Wilt either. They tried to defend each other, I'll give them that, the effort was there.

What it comes down to, you draft Wilt over Russell. You draft a lot of centers ahead of Russell, because you have a lot of centers who can score and still defend. With all the offensive threats in this mock draft at all positions you need a center who can score as well because no team will double team Russell. Heck, Wes Unseld would be a tossup with Bill if it came down to the last two teams and the last two centers. Patrick Ewing and Dennis Rodman would be at least an even fit defensively compared to Russell and Happy Hairston, and better overall offensively. Hairston was a jump shooter who got his points when the other Lakers had to pass the ball out of double teams. Ewing would make up for Rodman's lack of offense.

This mock draft should have been by position.

[LnGrrrR]

You're a cool guy and I am not trying to pick on you about your player, Russell. All I am saying is, you have pretty close to even defenders in Wilt and Russell, but you have the offense in Wilt. The only player Wilt couldn't defend was Kareem, and likewise Kareem couldn't stop Wilt either. They tried to defend each other, I'll give them that, the effort was there.

Totally understandable. I'm not denying that Wilt was a better player than Russell.


What it comes down to, you draft Wilt over Russell. You draft a lot of centers ahead of Russell, because you have a lot of centers who can score and still defend. With all the offensive threats in this mock draft at all positions you need a center who can score as well because no team will double team Russell. Heck, Wes Unseld would be a tossup with Bill if it came down to the last two teams and the last two centers. Patrick Ewing and Dennis Rodman would be at least an even fit defensively compared to Russell and Happy Hairston, and better overall offensively. Hairston was a jump shooter who got his points when the other Lakers had to pass the ball out of double teams. Ewing would make up for Rodman's lack of offense.

This mock draft should have been by position.

I definitely would've taken Hakeem, Kareem, Wilt, and Shaq before Russell. I think I would've taken Russell over Unseld, Rodman, and Ewing though.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Totally understandable. I'm not denying that Wilt was a better player than Russell.



I definitely would've taken Hakeem, Kareem, Wilt, and Shaq before Russell. I think I would've taken Russell over Unseld, Rodman, and Ewing though.
Interesting points. The more I think about it, and I've alluded to it already, there are definite reasons you pick offensive minded centers over Russell. Granted, Russell will get you rebounds, but his prmary advantage for getting so many rings was his teams were stacked against the rest of the league. In this fantasy draft, every team is stacked, thus negating much of Russell's rebounding and shot blocking advantages. See, when Russell's team has the ball, single man on man coverage will suffice to defend because Russell does not need to be double teamed. Dwight Howard or prime Tim Duncan require extra attention when the ball goes inside to them and they pass out for an open 3 pointer. If Russell tries to defend them one on one, he will be abused, as Chamberlain did to him, by many. He would have no chance stopping Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Howard, Tim, or several other centers.

I know I am in the minority here, but I've already proved Russell is overrated in the link in my signature. Current assessment disagrees, and as noted above, Julius Erving and Oscar Robertson pay the price.

[Agloco]

>Dirk in the 5th round

Appropriate

[Girasuck]

IMO Lee Jenkins has the best team.

[FkLA]

People enjoy your posts and care about what you have to say.

You cared enough to quote it. Tee hee.

What round would you have picked Diggler in bro ?

[dirk4mvp]

You cared enough to quote it. Tee hee.

What round would you have picked Diggler in bro ?

Even spurfans have already acknowledged Dirk should've went much higher.

[FkLA]

What round do you think wouldve been appropriate ?

[dirk4mvp]

3rd at the latest. Have you seen some of the players before him?

[Nathan Explosion]

All Richard Deitsch does is win.

Hakeem at C and Duncan at PF? Those are easily two of the 15 best big men ever (maybe 10) oh, and KG as the SF/3rd man in the big men rotation. That's formidable right there.

[Nathan Explosion]

It may be the Spurs fan in me, but Thomsen has Drexler playing with Bird and Nash with Ginobili on the bench. Would you all do that, because I'm not sure I would. Drexler was athletic as hell and could slash to the bucket, but with Nash and Bird out there, I think Gino's passing would fit in with them. Plus, I could be wrong, but I don't remember Drexler being a deep threat, and with Walton and Mourning in the paint, you might want some deep threats to open up the lane for the big men.

Other than that, a very solid team. I still think the Hakeem/Duncan lineup is underrated (only one other guy mentions it). Hakeem was dominant in his low post footwork and a great shot blocker, and the other guy is the best PF ever, who is also a good shot blocker and has excellent low post footwork. Plus, both have mid-range jumpshots to play a high/low game with each other and were good passers.

And both guys also carried inferior/not quite ready talent to a title (94 Rockets/03 Spurs).

[Spurtacus]

Dirk > Iverson
Manu > Iverson

[Ashy Larry]

lol @ Bob Cousy .... that patty would get raped.

[stretch]

T-Mac was close with Kobe in 03-04 I believe it was. He had the tools to be better, he was just content on letting his natural talent get him by.

+1

T-Mac is the most naturally gifted and talented player I have ever seen. I've never seen the game look so easy and natural to a guy, like it did for T-Mac. He would put up 40 and not even look like he was trying or working hard.

If he had the will and work ethic of Kobe or MJ, there isnt a doubt in my mind he would be the greatest player the game has ever seen.

[ambchang]

The article is quite vague, what does it mean by "prime of their career"? Does it mean one season? A few seasons? One playoff run? What does that mean? If it does, in fact, mean one season, then we should strictly look at the peak year of each player, and there would be a few names in contention of the #1 spot

62 Wilt
00 Shaq
61-63 Big O
73-76 Dr. J
94-95 Hakeem
69-74 Kareem
88-89 Magic
02-04 Duncan
85-88 Bird
91-93 Jordan
81-82 Moses Malone
77 Walton

Also there are some players who had their careers derailed by injuries, (Bernard King, Grant Hill, T-Mac, Bill Walton) who would have been all-time greats other wise. But if we are only talking about prime, those two would make it much much higher in the list.

Anyways, I think the list is whacked, especially when longevity of excellence shouldn't be included based on the rules outlined by the article itself.

[ambchang]

+1

T-Mac is the most naturally gifted and talented player I have ever seen. I've never seen the game look so easy and natural to a guy, like it did for T-Mac. He would put up 40 and not even look like he was trying or working hard.

If he had the will and work ethic of Kobe or MJ, there isnt a doubt in my mind he would be the greatest player the game has ever seen.

Same could be said for Carter. Vince Carter had the inside and outside game to compliment is incredible athletic ability. Too bad the guy was unprofessional, and just plain didn't care.

Carter would easily have been a top 10 talent if he put forth the effort to do it.

Shaq would have been best of all time, and at least top 3 of all time, if he took the game seriously and play at his 00 level for 5 or 6 years.

[ambchang]

After looking at all the teams, would be tough to bet against the Wolff team.'

Nobody can score on them: Jordan, Robinson, Cowens, Dumars, Thurmond, Dennis Johnson, Wallace and Cheeks

They can score against the best of them: Jordan, Robinson, Wade, Cowens, Paul

They have a clear cut go to guy: Jordan

They have team players: Robinson, Cowens, Dumars, Paul, Johnson, Horry, Porter, Wallace and Cheeks

They have clutch players: Jordan, Wade, , Cowens, Dumars

They have passers: Wade, Dumars, Paul, Johnson, Porter, Cheeks

They have rebounders: Robinson, Wallace, Cowens, Thurmond.

This looks like one well-balanced formidable team.

[Leetonidas]

+1

T-Mac is the most naturally gifted and talented player I have ever seen. I've never seen the game look so easy and natural to a guy, like it did for T-Mac. He would put up 40 and not even look like he was trying or working hard.

If he had the will and work ethic of Kobe or MJ, there isnt a doubt in my mind he would be the greatest player the game has ever seen.

Sometimes I think it was just his dazed, googly eyes that made it look like he wasn't trying because he always had a very bored or disinterested expression when he's hitting 3 after 3 in your face on insane turnaround fadeaways or pull ups with 2 defenders in his grill.

I'll never forget him ass raping the Spurs. And fuck Devin Brown for slipping and falling like an asshole to end the game. :pctoss

Kinda sad that that's what he will be remembered for though. And not getting out of the first round until he was injured.

[The Gemini Method]

Ballard's team would be hard to get a rebound on that's for sure...

[NewcastleKEG]

Given the ''build a team'' aspect of this draft

Taking Kobe over Duncan & Hakeem is


H
I
L
A
R
I
O
U
S

[DMC]

Picking MJ 1st overall wasn't the best choice. Gotta secure the best big man, get your front court. Jordan would go right away after you passed up on him leaving another quality player for you to pick from in the 2nd. MJ was the best ever, but there are players who could collectively fill that role.

[NewcastleKEG]

Picking MJ 1st overall wasn't the best choice. Gotta secure the best big man, get your front court. Jordan would go right away after you passed up on him leaving another quality player for you to pick from in the 2nd. MJ was the best ever, but there are players who could collectively fill that role.
Jordan didn't/doesn't need a post player to win a title. . .

[resistanze]

I'm still at a loss of words how you pass up Kareem for Russell.

[DMC]

Jordan didn't/doesn't need a post player to win a title. . .

He would against those teams.