So what are your ideas about the US Postal Service?

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-22/u-s-postal-service-will-suspend-contributions-into-employee-pension-fund.html

U.S. Postal Service to Stop Paying Into Pension Fund
By Angela Greiling Keane - Jun 22, 2011 8:38 AM CT

The U.S. Postal Service, facing insolvency unless it gets approval to delay a $5.5 billion payment for worker health benefits, will suspend contributions to an employee retirement account to save $800 million this year.
The Postal Service will stop paying employer contributions to the defined-benefit Federal Employees Retirement System, which covers about 85 percent of career postal workers, it said today in an e-mailed statement. The $115 million payment, made every other week, will stop on June 24, the statement said.
Suspending payments to the retirement account will help “conserve cash and preserve liquidity,” the statement said. The agency estimates it has overpaid the retirement account by $6.9 billion and has asked Congress to pass legislation to return that money.
“We believe we have already satisfied our current funding obligations,” David Partenheimer, a Postal Service spokesman, said in an e-mail. “The Postal Service believes there will be no impact on employees.”
The suspension will save the Postal Service $800 million through the end of its fiscal year, it said. The agency said it still needs Congress to enact laws that would help cut costs and restore financial stability.
The Postal Service and U.S. Office of Personnel Management will ask the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel to review the decision, Partenheimer said.
Ending Saturday Delivery
Even with the cuts, the service wants the authority to end Saturday delivery and reduce pre-payment of health benefits for retirees. It has said it will not be able to make a $5.5 billion payment due Sept. 30 for health benefits for future retirees.
The Postal Service reported a loss of $8.5 billion in its 2010 fiscal year. It also reported a widening second-quarter loss, to $2.6 billion, on declining volumes of first-class mail.
The service will continue to transmit employee contributions to the pension fund and will make payments to the Thrift Savings Plan, a defined contribution federal retirement plan, Chief Human Resources Officer Anthony Vegliante said in the statement.
To contact the reporter on this story: Angela Greiling Keane in Washington at [email protected].

[CosmicCowboy]

There is no way they can ever make money. They are getting killed by technology. Nobody writes letters anymore, everyone pays their bills online...heck...businesses are even doing billing and payments electronically...they have just become a delivery service for junk mail. If they raise their rates even more people will abandon them even faster in their move to electronic media.

[coyotes_geek]

Merely another in a long line of government entities being hamstrung by obligations to their retirees.

We can rest assured that the post office will not get their $6.9 billion refunded and that the taxpayers will be put on the hook to keep the post office solvent.

[ElNono]

Looks like they overpaid the fund when times were good.

I disagree that they're only good for junk mail. I do think they needed (and still need to) downsize to match current reduced workload, both in service hours and personnel. I think they can get back to being profit-neutral that way. I certainly want them to stick around, as they're a major driver for the cost of postal service being kept relatively low, IMO.

[CosmicCowboy]

Looks like they overpaid the fund when times were good.

I disagree that they're only good for junk mail. I do think they needed (and still need to) downsize to match current reduced workload, both in service hours and personnel. I think they can get back to being profit-neutral that way. I certainly want them to stick around, as they're a major driver for the cost of postal service being kept relatively low, IMO.

I'm not saying they are totally irrelevant but they are losing first class mail volume geometrically while their overhead continues to increase. That mail carrier is still delivering mail to that same mail box with $4 gas, but instead of delivering/picking up 15 first class mail items @ .42 each he is delivering 2. To keep the same revenue first class stamps are going to have to go to $2+. When they go to $2 a lot more small businesses (like mine) will make the move to paperless billing, reducing their revenue even more.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm a pretty good example. I used to receive at least 15 personal bills a month in the mail, write checks, address envelopes, buy and use stamps, etc. For just my personal mail needs, it required buying 360 first class stamp trips a year for inbound/outbound. At todays stamp prices that would be over $150 a year.

I now went to paperless billing and do everything electronically. Multiply that by a couple hundred million and it's no wonder they are losing their ass. That postman still drives to my house every day and opens my mailbox...he just doesn't deliver/pickup the premium letters anymore.

[Blake]

I wonder how much money would be saved by completely getting rid of the door to door mailbox service, installing community mailbox units in all the older neighborhoods.

[ElNono]

I'm not saying they are totally irrelevant but they are losing first class mail volume geometrically while their overhead continues to increase. That mail carrier is still delivering mail to that same mail box with $4 gas, but instead of delivering/picking up 15 first class mail items @ .42 each he is delivering 2. To keep the same revenue first class stamps are going to have to go to $2+. When they go to $2 a lot more small businesses (like mine) will make the move to paperless billing, reducing their revenue even more.

The management has been proposing to gut saturday delivery for years now. It's unknown to anybody why Congress hasn't followed through with the suggestion. That's 17% of their operation right there. They also need to consolidate some post office zones and obviously reduce personnel. I believe the consolidation part has started already.

We already do paperless billing ourselves. One of our products is actually a billing product that generates PDF bills for emailing (or printing).

There's still a market for them out there though. They just need to resize their operation to match the dwindling demand.

[ElNono]

I wonder how much money would be saved by completely getting rid of the door to door mailbox service, installing community mailbox units in all the older neighborhoods.

I don't know about completely getting rid of it, but maybe turn it into a every-other-day, or every-two-days service. If you need to send or pickup something immediately, make a run to the post office.

[Wild Cobra]

Looks like they overpaid the fund when times were good.

I disagree that they're only good for junk mail. I do think they needed (and still need to) downsize to match current reduced workload, both in service hours and personnel. I think they can get back to being profit-neutral that way. I certainly want them to stick around, as they're a major driver for the cost of postal service being kept relatively low, IMO.
Not only over paying, but congress spent the profits they made in earlier years.

[ElNono]

Well, the USPS is supposedly mandated to be revenue-neutral. So I would assume that whatever profits they might have collected had to do with non-post related business (packaging material, etc?)

[Wild Cobra]

The management has been proposing to gut saturday delivery for years now. It's unknown to anybody why Congress hasn't followed through with the suggestion. That's 17% of their operation right there.
It would be far less that 17% of their operation. The carriers stations are pretty much the only ones affected from 6 days to 5. All the support and transportation still goes 24/7. You wouldn't be able to eliminate 17% of the carries, maybe only 5% because the mail volume would still be there. They would have shorter routes requiring more carries per day and only a few less per week.

What would reducing Saturday delivery accomplish? The mail volume would still be the same. The manpower would be reduced only slightly. Half the fuel costs would go from 6 days a week to 5. If they suspend Saturday delivery, then you probably end up with an unmanageable amount of mail for Monday. They would need to suspend a mid week day, but that would mean the carriers would never have two days off in a row.

Fuel for the carrier fleet I think would be the only usable savings in costs. That could only save a few million annual and the scope of the problem is billions. Sacrifice a day of customer service for a small savings?

Even the fuel cost for delivery vehicles won't be 17% because you would have to have more vehicles in service for more carriers per day.

[Wild Cobra]

Well, the USPS is supposedly mandated to be revenue-neutral. So I would assume that whatever profits they might have collected had to do with non-post related business (packaging material, etc?)
You can never be revenue neutral. Striving for a zero net means you are over some ears and under in others. Right now, they are under. Congress has still spent more of their excesses than they are negative.

[ElNono]

It would be far less that 17% of their operation. Only the carriers stations work 6 days. All the support and transportation still goes 24/7. You wouldn't be able to eliminate 17% of the carries, maybe only 5% because the mail volume would still be there.

It saves door to door delivery costs, money spent on every post office for a day (including salaries, electricity, etc).


What would reducing Saturday delivery accomplish? The mail volume would still be the same. The manpower would be reduced only slightly. Half the fuel costs would go from 6 days a week to 5. If they suspend Saturday delivery, then you probably end up with an unmanageable amount of mail for Monday. They would need to suspend a mid week day, but that would mean the carriers would never have two days off in a row.

The point is that the mail volume is low for the current size of the operation. It's likely to only get lower. So you need to reduce the size of the operation, and at the same time adjust to the reality that people don't send mail that often anymore, so you don't need a 6 day operation.


Fuel for the carrier fleet I think would be the only usable savings in costs. That could only save a few million annual and the scope of the problem is billions. Sacrifice a day of customer service for a small savings?

Since you calculated the figures already and made up your mind based on them, can you post them so everybody can see what you're basing your opinion on?

[Wild Cobra]

Since manpower is related to mail volume, then it will reduce naturally either way.

Heating/cooling/lighting would be a sayings, but again, just peanuts compared to the scope of the problem.

Carrier routes are increased in size already as the volume decreases. Most the savings people think they would have are far less than assumed.

[ElNono]

You can never be revenue neutral. Striving for a zero net means you are over some ears and under in others. Right now, they are under. Congress has still spent more of their excesses than they are negative.

That's why the Postal Service Fund, held by the Treasury, was enacted:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode39/usc_sec_39_00002003----000-.html

[ElNono]

Since manpower is related to mail volume, then it will reduce naturally either way.

Heating/cooling/lighting would be a sayings, but again, just peanuts compared to the scope of the problem.

Carrier routes are increased in size already as the volume decreases. Most the savings people think they would have are far less than assumed.

So the 'savings would be only millions' came out of thin air? Thanks.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

[Wild Cobra]

So the 'savings would be only millions' came out of thin air? Thanks.
Well, it definitely won't be billions.

After 9/11, there were several added costs to the postal service to protect from Antrax, and other similar dangers.

Remember articles like this:

N.J. Postal Worker Has Inhalation Anthrax (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92274&page=1)

[ChumpDumper]

I'm all but certain it's about religion.

[CosmicCowboy]

It's really simple WC...the big costs are pickup/delivery. Their coverage area is constantly increasing and their revenue per customer is constantly shrinking...

[Wild Cobra]

It's really simple WC...the big costs are pickup/delivery. Their coverage area is constantly increasing and their revenue per customer is constantly shrinking...
No shit. I get that. Still, removing a day of service isn't going to help the bottom line much and might even lose some of their business costumers who ship packages through them. The volume of delivered mail each day would increase an average of 20%, but most of it on Monday. There will be less days to pay carriers, but more carriers per day. Traveled miles will decrease, but be idle longer at each stop. There might not be a fuel savings and it might be harder on the vehicles.

I get the concept. I just don't see a savings that outweigh the loss of service, especially when the manpower will remain similar.

I'll bet that the biggest savings could be felt if they got rid of the managers who make stupid decisions, costing millions a decision. In corporate America, they would be fired. In a bureaucracy, they likely get promoted!

I recently learned they are shutting down one of three main processing facilities in the Portland metro area. I predict this will cost them dearly. You see, the facility they are shutting down serves the west Portland Metro area. West Portland, Beverton, Tigard, Hillsboro, Newberg, Aloha, Forest Grove, etc. etc. The roads to go from the main processing facility in Portland to the region these areas service are often shut down or have had delays in traffic. I wonder how many times a year the mail to ALL areas west of the West Hills will be delayed two hours or more to the carriers.

How many thousands of carriers each day will a delay affect? How much will overtime to well over 500 carriers each day cost the postal service?

All this, for in essence, saving the cost of a warehouse size building lease, heating, cooling, and lights.

[ElNono]

Somebody already ran the numbers...

here (http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/2011/pr11_068.htm)

lol millions

At any rate, this would be a start. I think there's more shredding that can be done in personnel, and as Blake suggested, trimming the door to door service. I just don't think you can completely do away with it (I'm thinking disabled people here unable to use the constitutionally established service).

[Wild Cobra]

Somebody already ran the numbers...

here (http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/2011/pr11_068.htm)

lol millions

At any rate, this would be a start. I think there's more shredding that can be done in personnel, and as Blake suggested, trimming the door to door service. I just don't think you can completely do away with it (I'm thinking disabled people here unable to use the constitutionally established service).
Well, I don't believe the Postal assessment, but I guess it could be billions.

Still, we are talking overoptimistic cost projections that I'll bet are way off.

Tell me. Since they assume only a reduced need of 56% labor of Saturday, with 44% of the workload being redistributed Mon-Fri, what happens to the 7.33% of the excess carriers? I believe the way the union contracts are written, they can't just lay them off. With the carriers being the largest part of the savings, how do they actually achieve that savings?

I say it's all smoke and mirrors.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/11143386/postal-employees-paid-to-do-nothing?redirected=true

Postal employees paid to do nothing


Posted: Sep 16, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
Updated: Sep 16, 2009 7:43 PM CDT

FORT MYERS: The United States Postal Service faces a $7-billion deficit this year. Closing local post offices and cutting one day of delivery service have both been suggested to save money, layoffs have not. But a decline in mail volume has led to some paid employees spending entire days doing nothing at all.

Video from the processing center off of Jet Loop Port last Christmas showed overflowing carts and piles of packages. Now, it's a different scene.

Postal Service officials we spoke to say processors now are sorting 17-percent fewer pieces of mail in Southwest Florida alone and 32-billion fewer nationwide.

While there is less work to do, the Postal Service still has the same number of employees.

The American Postal Workers Union has a no layoff clause in their employee's contracts which guarantees all employees who have worked for more than six years, 40 paid hours a week - even if there isn't work to be done.

Postal Service spokesman Gary Sawtelle explained that unionized employees across the nation are being put on what's called "standby time" - a policy drafted in 1991 by the Postal Service.

The guideline is laid out in the Postal Service manual, but is not part of the union contract.

"It's really not been until recently that we have really applied it," Sawtelle said.

Under standby guidelines, when there's no mail to process, employees sit in conference rooms until there is work. Sometimes workers will wait for an hour - sometimes they will wait longer.

Reporter Sarah Hollenbeck: Sometimes it is almost the entire shift, right?
Sawtelle: In some cases, that is the case because the mail has dropped so much in the last couple of years that this is one of the strategies we have when we have employees and no workload.

Under the policy, supervisors decide what employees do in the room. In Florida, it's recommended they watch training videos or read postal manuals.

"It's probably outside of their expertise, but it will give them a better idea of the scope of what the Postal Service represents," Sawtelle explained.

Sam Wood is the president of the local chapter of the American Postal Workers Union, or APWU. He says employees only watch training videos once in a while.

"The training videos and materials they're reading is stuff they've already seen. It's stuff they've already read," Wood explained.

Off camera, several employees of the Postal Service, who did not want to be identified, said they use most of the time to sleep. And they said that if they spend eight hours in the room, they only get to leave twice - once for lunch and one more time for a break.

"It's just a total waste of money," said Wood.

Wood says he has an easy fix. He would like to see some non-union temporary employees who do not qualify under the guidelines laid out out in the no layoff clause of the Postal Worker's Union Handbook laid off instead so those on standby can be put back to work.

"It's not like there isn't anybody to lay off. There are literally thousands of employees throughout the U.S. that could be laid off," said Wood.

Both the APWU and the Postal Service agree on one thing - standby time is a bad policy both for the workers and the folks who pay to use the post office.

One way the Postal Service administrators are trying to cut workers is with early retirement.

It has offered 30,000 senior employees a $15,000 incentive to leave. Employees have until September 25 to accept. If all 30,000 took the offer, it would save the Postal Service $500-million.

By Sarah Hollenbeck

[ElNono]

Well, I don't believe the Postal assessment, but I guess it could be billions.

...

I say it's all smoke and mirrors.

:lol

[ElNono]

Postal employees paid to do nothing

Reducing personnel has to happen...it's one part that needs to happen...

[Wild Cobra]

:lol
Did you read what Cosmic just posted?

[Wild Cobra]

Reducing personnel has to happen...it's one part that needs to happen...
How do you make it happen when there is a no layoff agreement in the contract?

Like I said. Smoke and mirrors because you cannot force these people out, and incentives to leave don't work in this economy either, except for early retirement incentives.

[ElNono]

How do you make it happen when there is a no layoff agreement in the contract?

Renegotiate the contract? Shift some of the workers to other understaffed agencies while their contract is still up?


Like I said. Smoke and mirrors because you cannot force these people out, and incentives to leave don't work in this economy either, except for early retirement incentives.

There has been other solutions proposed here that don't involve firings and would still slow down the bleeding (in the billions)... I do think you need to reduce personnel to actually stop it completely.

You can't do away with the Postal Service either, being that's constitutionally mandated and all. So some middle ground will have to be found.

[Wild Cobra]

Again, with the projections based as they are, I say it's all smoke and mirrors.

[LnGrrrR]

I'll bet that the biggest savings could be felt if they got rid of the managers who make stupid decisions, costing millions a decision. In corporate America, they would be fired. In a bureaucracy, they likely get promoted!

They should get the people who ran the banks to run the post office too. Those guys are geniuses!

[Wild Cobra]

They should get the people who ran the banks to run the post office too. Those guys are geniuses!
Actually I would say we are lucky the people running the Postal Service are not running the banks!

[LnGrrrR]

Actually I would say we are lucky the people running the Postal Service are not running the banks!

Why? Could they wreck our economy even worse than the bank CEOs did, while holding American taxpayers hostage to support them, while still pocketing fat checks without any promise of reform or oversight?

[jack sommerset]

I can't remember the last time I mailed out anything.

[jack sommerset]

I wonder what would happen if the government got rid of US postal service all together?

[hehateme]

I wonder what would happen if the government got rid of US postal service all together?

Then I would stop getting all that junk mail that keeps my life going one day at a time...


Is there a way for the government to unload the postal service debacle to another company, i.e. Fedex or UPS?

[jack sommerset]

It actually might be a great idea to get rid of the US postal service all together.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/269621/yes-end-postal-service-robert-verbruggen

[ElNono]

That would require a Constitutional amendment. Good luck with that.

EDIT: I take that back. It might not. I have to re-read Article I.

[clambake]

it would be chaos. for companies and civilians.

[RandomGuy]

There is no way they can ever make money. They are getting killed by technology. Nobody writes letters anymore, everyone pays their bills online...heck...businesses are even doing billing and payments electronically...they have just become a delivery service for junk mail. If they raise their rates even more people will abandon them even faster in their move to electronic media.

They need to raise their junk rates.

Fuck junk mail.