Will Hill Trade Mean More PT for Neal?

[Calispursfan11]

Will Gary "The Truth" Neal see the point some or at least get more PT out of this? I honestly can see Neal being the new 6th man off the bench (somewhat like JET) getting around 30 mins a night. What do you guys think?

I also think perhaps the Spurs saw Hill as an impedement to really letting Gary shine and decided to remove that while also getting a good draft piece in the process. Finally, IMO, Neal, while not the exact same player, is better than Hill.

[Buddy Holly]

Neal will now be the primary backup to Manu at the 2. Although he may be a starter if Pop decides to have Manu come off the bench though with Neal and Anderson coming off the bench I don't think that's necessary.

[Darkwaters]

Yes and no. Anderson coming back will be the big competition though.

[Buddy Holly]

Yes and no. Anderson coming back will be the big competition though.

Not really.

[Spurtacus]

More playing time for Neal/Anderson. That's why I don't believe George's loss is a big deal. These guys should be able to duplicate Hill's value last year. And now we have Leonard from the trade. Nice.

[Buddy Holly]

I can see Neal averaging 13-15 a game and Anderson giving us 7-10 a game.

[TJastal]

Will Gary "The Truth" Neal see the point some or at least get more PT out of this? I honestly can see Neal being the new 6th man off the bench (somewhat like JET) getting around 30 mins a night. What do you guys think?

I also think perhaps the Spurs saw Hill as an impedement to really letting Gary shine and decided to remove that while also getting a good draft piece in the process. Finally, IMO, Neal, while not the exact same player, is better than Hill.

http://www.playmakeronline.com/2011/06/04/an-in-depth-look-at-parker-vs-hill/


Manu’s numbers almost across the board are superior when playing with Hill instead of Parker. This pattern also holds true with Gary Neal. Neal is a much more efficient player with Hill creating shots for him. His +/- goes from a negative playing with Parker to a +4.5 playing with Hill.

Bang!

[Buddy Holly]

Hill creating shots for him? Hill could barely create shots for himself.

Dude, enough, go jerk yourself off to your Hill posters until you fall asleep.

[Mel_13]

http://www.playmakeronline.com/2011/06/04/an-in-depth-look-at-parker-vs-hill/



Bang!

So +/- numbers are a reliable indicator of player performance and value?

[ChumpDumper]

So +/- numbers are a reliable indicator of player performance and value?Only if you like him.

It's science.

[TJastal]

So +/- numbers are a reliable indicator of player performance and value?

+/- numbers gathered over 1000+ minutes of data I would say yes it does provide some indication detailing a degree of reliability.

[TJastal]

Only if you like him.

It's science.

You're kind of remind me of that 9 year old kid who still rides in mommy's shopping cart and throws a tantrum every few minutes if she doesn't put the sugary snack your fixated on in the cart.

Actually to accumulate the amount of whining posts you have the comparision would probably have to be throwing a tantrum every few seconds... but that's besides the point.

[ChumpDumper]

You're kind of remind me of that 9 year old kid who still rides in mommy's shopping cart and throws a tantrum every few minutes if she doesn't put the sugary snack your fixated on in the cart.

Actually to accumulate the amount of whining posts you have the comparision would probably be every few seconds... but that's besides the point.Man, your syntax and spelling really take a beating when you're upset.

[chazley]

With Hill playing PG, it put the ball in Neal's hands alot on the second unit. Although Hill had terrible assist numbers for a PG, he worked well on this team as a PG because he would basically just bring the ball up the court and immediately pass. Since we have a ton of playmakers, this worked well for us. This kind of PG play will win you regular season games, but when the defenses become tight in the fourth quarter and in playoff games, it can make your offense look terrible.

With Parker in at PG, our offense doesn't stall as much (theoretically) because he's able to break defenses down with his penetration. This drive and kick games should help Gary Neal, but I think what it might be doing is basically turning him into Matt Bonner in these drive and kick scenarios, which would be marginalizing his talents. There are plenty of ways to fix this for a guy with Neal's talent, but it's going to take some tweaking of his game.

[TJastal]

With Hill playing PG, it put the ball in Neal's hands alot on the second unit. Although Hill had terrible assist numbers for a PG, he worked well on this team as a PG because he would basically just bring the ball up the court and immediately pass. Since we have a ton of playmakers, this worked well for us. This kind of PG play will win you regular season games, but when the defenses become tight in the fourth quarter and in playoff games, it can make your offense look terrible.

With Parker in at PG, our offense doesn't stall as much (theoretically) because he's able to break defenses down with his penetration. This drive and kick games should help Gary Neal, but I think what it might be doing is basically turning him into Matt Bonner in these drive and kick scenarios, which would be marginalizing his talents. There are plenty of ways to fix this for a guy with Neal's talent, but it's going to take some tweaking of his game.

It's like the guy said in the article, Parker dominates the ball and suffocates everyone else's game in the process. You essentially live and die with how Parker is playing for that particular game. And that's really a rough way to live when he's in the midst of a nasty 3-4 year slump.

[ChumpDumper]

lol slump

You're an idiot.

[Mel_13]

+/- numbers gathered over 1000+ minutes of data I would say yes it does provide some indication detailing a degree of reliability.

During the 2010-11 season:

With Matt Bonner on the court:

Spurs: 104.7 per 48 minutes
Opp: 96.1 per 48 minutes


With Tiago Splitter on the court:

Spurs: 97.8 per 48
Opp: 99.6 per 48


Bang!

[TJastal]

During the 2010-11 season:

With Matt Bonner on the court:

Spurs: 104.7 per 48 minutes
Opp: 96.1 per 48 minutes


With Tiago Splitter on the court:

Spurs: 97.8 per 48
Opp: 99.6 per 48


Bang!

Excellent point, Mel. Glad you brought it up. Considering Bonner played with the 1st unit a fair number of minutes (including Manu & Timmy) and Splitter played almost 100% junk minutes with the 2nd/3rd string Bonner should come out on top. Hill on the other hand played less with the 1st unit than Parker (being the 1st off the bench) and obviously still made others better (also mentioned by the article).

Welp, I wasn't even going to mention that little tidbit in the Hill/Parker debate but now that you've coerced it into the discussion.. well, thanks. :toast

[rascal]

Will Gary "The Truth" Neal see the point some or at least get more PT out of this? I honestly can see Neal being the new 6th man off the bench (somewhat like JET) getting around 30 mins a night. What do you guys think?

I also think perhaps the Spurs saw Hill as an impedement to really letting Gary shine and decided to remove that while also getting a good draft piece in the process. Finally, IMO, Neal, while not the exact same player, is better than Hill.

No Neal is not a pg. Don't forget Anderson will get more minutes.
Neal is not better than Hill.

No way Neal gets traded for the 15 and 42 picks.

[ChumpDumper]

Excellent point, Mel. Glad you brought it up. Considering Bonner played with the 1st unit a fair number of minutes (including Manu & Timmy) and Splitter played almost 100% junk minutes with the 2nd/3rd string he should come out on top. Hill on the other hand played less with the 1st unit than Parker (being the 1st off the bench) and obviously still made others better (also mentioned by the article).

Welp, I wasn't even going to mention that little tidbit in the Hill/Parker debate but now that you've brought it up for discussion.. well, thanks. :toastSee?

He doesn't like Bonner, so +/- means nothing.

[rascal]

During the 2010-11 season:

With Matt Bonner on the court:

Spurs: 104.7 per 48 minutes
Opp: 96.1 per 48 minutes


With Tiago Splitter on the court:

Spurs: 97.8 per 48
Opp: 99.6 per 48


Bang!

Splitter was in most of the time during garbage time. Hard to take anything out of garbage time when most of the starters are not on the court.


Stats are not valid when you look deeper into the numbers.

[ChumpDumper]

Stats are not valid when they don't confirm my bias.

[TJastal]

Splitter was in most of the time during garbage time. Hard to take anything out of garbage time when most of the starters are not on the court.


Stats are not valid when you look deeper into the numbers.

Can't be biased with stats at all. Even if they favor your opponent. Chump's rules.

[ChumpDumper]

Can't be biased with stats at all. Even if they favor your opponent. Chump's rules.So why were you biased with stats?

[TJastal]

So why were you biased with stats?

I wasn't in my example. I could have been, had I wished to make a stronger point.

Are you following any of this?

[jjktkk]

What kind of fetsih is it when some throughly and consistantly gets shitted on in a forum? Is it possible to come up with a proper name for it?

[ChumpDumper]

I wasn't in my example. I could have been, had I wished to make a stronger point.

Are you following any of this?Yes, you are biased when it comes to stats.

It's not a big deal.

[TJastal]

Yes, you are biased when it comes to stats.

It's not a big deal.

lol completely lost

[ChumpDumper]

lol completely lostNope.

It's simple.

You trumpet stats when they confirm your bias and you make excuses and discount stats when they don't confirm your bias.

You just did both. On cue.

[rascal]

Nope.

It's simple.

You trumpet stats when they confirm your bias and you make excuses and discount stats when they don't confirm your bias.

You just did both. On cue.

There were valid reasons why those stats were not valid. You have blinders on not to accept them.

[ChumpDumper]

You must accept my bias and excuses.

[TD 21]

Based on how the roster is currently constructed, yes. Neal would be the 6th man and probably play an extra five or so minutes per game.

Offensively, I'm not sure the Spurs lose a whole lot at PG on the second unit. But defensively, having one of Neal or Ginobili guarding PG's on a consistent basis could be disastrous. And whenever they get an injury in the back court, particularly to Parker, they'd be ridiculously thin at the point.

The roster is still imbalanced, it's just imbalanced differently than usual. I've got to believe they trade for a starting four and in the process alleviate the logjam on the wings. Maybe it means throwing in Anderson as an additional piece to get someone to take Jefferson off their hands, while getting back a backup PG (Gibson?). If they go the free agent route for a backup PG, I suspect they heavily pursue Watson.

[TJastal]

Nope.

It's simple.

You trumpet stats when they confirm your bias and you make excuses and discount stats when they don't confirm your bias.

You just did both. On cue.

I "agreed" for the integrity of the original argument we shouldn't be biased about how the stats are interpreted. Hence why I said


Can't be biased with stats at all. Even if they favor your opponent. Chump's rules.

So you got your wish... I will exclude all bias and not discount Mel's example, whatever purpose it serves. You win. Carry on.

[ChumpDumper]

I "agreed" for the integrity of the original argument we shouldn't be biased about how the stats are interpreted. Hence why I said

So you got your wish... I will exclude all bias and not discount Mel's example, whatever purpose it serves. You win. Carry on.But you started making excuses immediately when faced with stats that did not confirm your bias.

There's nothing to win here. Your bias and excuse making is what it is.

[Nathan89]

lol thinking Hill and his 12pts/4.5assist without parker is good.

[TJastal]

But you started making excuses immediately when faced with stats that did not confirm your bias.

There's nothing to win here. Your bias and excuse making is what it is.

So? I retracted it all just for you. Don't you feel special? But no, that is not a come on, I'll leave the bromancing bit to more talented individuals like ohmwrecker.

[ChumpDumper]

So? I retracted it all just for you. Don't you feel special? But no, that is not a come on, I'll leave the bromancing bit to more talented individuals like ohmwrecker.You're just going to do it again.

It's not as big a deal as you are making it out to be.

[TJastal]

You're just going to do it again.

It's not as big a deal as you are making it out to be.

And if I do it again, what are you gonna do about it? (Besides bitch and moan like ya always do).

:lol

[ChumpDumper]

And if I do it again, what are you gonna do about it? (Besides bitch and moan like ya always do).

:lolJudging from your whining and flip-flopping today, I will simply point it out again like I did here.

[TJastal]

Judging from your whining and flip-flopping today, I will simply point it out again like I did here.

Well it's best you go let off some steam.. go watch some old Toros games I'm sure you got squirreled away in the attic. No need to stay all pissed off over the fact that Mel's boy was propped up all year long by the guys he played with and my boy not so much. It's okay, really. Nothing to get in a funk about. I totally dropped the whole thing so we're square. Have fun with the vids!

[ChumpDumper]

Well it's best you go let off some steam.. go watch some old Toros games I'm sure you got squirreled away in the attic. No need to stay all pissed off over the fact that Mel's boy was propped up all year long by the guys he played with and my boy not so much. It's okay, really. Nothing to get in a funk about. I totally dropped the whole thing so we're square. Have fun with the vids!Really didn't take you long to start with the excuses again, did it?

Just like I said you would.

[TJastal]

Really didn't take you long to start with the excuses again, did it?

Just like I said you would.

Nope, dropped the whole thing hours ago. Was just letting you know not to stay upset. So you win the argument. Like always, right Chump?

[ChumpDumper]

Nope, dropped the whole thing hours ago.You brought it back up twenty minutes ago.
Mel's boy was propped up all year long by the guys he played with and my boy not so much.
Was just letting you know not to stay upset. So you win the argument. Like always, right Chump?If you say so, pussy.

[TJastal]

You brought it back up twenty minutes ago.
Wow if it's like, that upsetting I'll stop yapping about it, really this time. REALLY. You have my word. Won't mention it again in the thread. Deal?


If you say so, pussy.
I said so. Now go watch those fabulous Toros championship DVD's.

[ChumpDumper]

Wow if it's like, that upsetting I'll stop yapping about it, really this time. REALLY. You have my word. Won't mention it again in the thread. Deal?It's not upsetting at all. On the contrary, watching you flip-flop is pretty entertaining. You'll be making excuses for players you like again in no time. I wouldn't be surprised if you did it in this thread.


I said so. Now go watch those fabulous Toros championship DVD's.They never won a championship and there are no DVDs. You really don't know much of anything.

[Lizard_King]

They never won a championship and there are no DVDs. You really don't know much of anything.


:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin: rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lm ao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lm ao:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[Calispursfan11]

Am I missing something or are we down to one true PG now? Don't tell me Quinn is going to be in the rotation. Is he even still here? I know Manu will play some point, but it's really just TP and Manu now. We need one more who can break down the D. Otherwise there is the potential for the offense to get even more stagnant than it has in the past.

[mystargtr34]

I think it opens up time for Anderson more than anything. Neal should only see a slight increase in his minutes, as good as Neal has been you probly dont want him seeing more than 20 minutes a night consistently. Theres 30 minutes left behind by Hill, i would think Neal will get 5, Anderson 15-20 and Leonard 10-15.

[Fireball]

More minutes for Anderson for sure ... I think Gary Neal already played enough minutes last season. Do not get me wrong, he is great, but James Anderson has the talent and potential which the Spurs need to exploit ... hopefully he can get back into game shape and stay healthy for a season.