Matt Bonner Offseason 11/12 Training Video Inside

[IknowU]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQI-xA2H05c
:lobt2:

Space that floor.........jizzzzzzzzzzzzzz in my pants

[jaffies]

It's like watching Matt Bonner vs. Playoff Matt Bonner.

[TJastal]

Even that kid has better form than Bonner. Bleechhhh.. makes me wanna puke watching that retarded release of his. :vomit:

[Slomo]

Wow! :wow

If the other centers in the league were that kid's size, Matt would be unstoppable!

[TJastal]

Wow! :wow

If the other centers in the league were that kid's size, Matt would be unstoppable!

So would they though.

[Ice009]

What is the point of posting this? It's not even from the off season.

If your goal was to piss people off then you've done just that. I like you about as much as I do Bonner.

[ElNono]

What is the point of posting this? It's not even from the off season.

If your goal was to piss people off then you've done just that. I like you about as much as I do Bonner.

:madrun:madrun:madrun:madrun:madrun

[Chomag]

Yeah, Bonnner has probably one of the ugliest releases for a shooter currently in the nba, well other then Marrion that is. His release is so low and slow that it's no wonder he is afraid to shoot it with a defender 10 feet of him.:lol

[Blake]

Even that kid has better form than Bonner. Bleechhhh.. makes me wanna puke watching that retarded release of his. :vomit:

you have Bonner release sickness?

you might want to get that Bonner/Pop hate checked out before it kills you.

[weebo]

I agree Bonner is pretty much useless, but for all the heat he gets around here he's not as useless as RJ.

[tmtcsc]

Damn, if the Spurs could some how get the best 3 pt shooting guy in the league then we might....wait. Oh yeah.

Ridiculous Bonner hate still alive. RJ deserves criticism. He was brought in to be a difference maker. Bonner was brought in to make 3 pointers. That's what he did better than anyone in the league.

[elemento]

Damn, if the Spurs could some how get the best 3 pt shooting guy in the league then we might....wait. Oh yeah.

Ridiculous Bonner hate still alive. RJ deserves criticism. He was brought in to be a difference maker. Bonner was brought in to make 3 pointers. That's what he did better than anyone in the league.

True, but he can't do it when it matters. And we still gave him a 10m contract.

[hater]

RJ and Bonner are both in top 10 worst players in the NBA

[Chomag]

Damn, if the Spurs could some how get the best 3 pt shooting guy in the league then we might....wait. Oh yeah.

Ridiculous Bonner hate still alive. RJ deserves criticism. He was brought in to be a difference maker. Bonner was brought in to make 3 pointers. That's what he did better than anyone in the league.

I'm not biased, I hate on them both the same. Because come playoff time when it all matters they are both useless. :lol

[tmtcsc]

I thought Bonner improved this past year and hit some big shots against the Grizzlies in game 1. The series was lost due to Memphis eating us up in the paint.

They defended the paint and TP shied away from it (as usual in the playoffs) and threw up crap jumpers and didn't control the clock well.

We looked like amateurs and folded under pressure. That's why we lost against Memphis. Not because of Bonner. RJ was RJ and wasn't taking the ball to the rim aggressively or getting to the free throw line.

Pathetic.

[Hooks]

Damn, if the Spurs could some how get the best 3 pt shooting guy in the league then we might....wait. Oh yeah.


He's not the best 3pt shooter in the league, he's the best 3pt shooter during the regular season, but once the playoffs come along he chokes. His 3pt shooting has been terrible during the playoffs. His missed 3 point shots just KILL the offense, the Spurs would keep on feeding him the ball possession after possession and he'd keep on missing them. His terrible rebounding not only took away possessions from the spurs but gave a shit load of possessions to the opposing team. Bonner's late rotation defense is also some of the worst I've ever seen, rarely does he actually make a good rotation. The Spurs can't get back to a defensive team with someone like that.


I thought Bonner improved this past year and hit some big shots against the Grizzlies in game 1. The series was lost due to Memphis eating us up in the paint.

They defended the paint and TP shied away from it (as usual in the playoffs) and threw up crap jumpers and didn't control the clock well.

We looked like amateurs and folded under pressure. That's why we lost against Memphis. Not because of Bonner. RJ was RJ and wasn't taking the ball to the rim aggressively or getting to the free throw line.

Pathetic.

There were many contributing factors to the Spurs losing. Bonner was one of them, so was RJ, TP and Splitter getting PT too late, and our small SG/SF getting posted up on ALL series long and getting scored/rebounded on at will.

So far the Spurs have fixed one of their problems, they traded Hill for a big Sf with good defense that can also guard SG's. That also opened up PT for Anderson, a legit SG with excellent size.

The Spurs also tried to get rid of RJ, but of course nobody wanted him.

[ElNono]

I thought Bonner improved this past year and hit some big shots against the Grizzlies in game 1. The series was lost due to Memphis eating us up in the paint.

Not that the other bigs played well, but Matty was instrumental part of this problem, rather than a solution. Heck, you can go back and see Memphis going directly at him time and time again while he was out there.

And yeah, his heroics in game 1 are nice and all. There were another 5 games after that. As pointed out plenty of times, the "best 3 point shooter in the NBA" was the 37th or so best 3 point shooter during the playoffs. Freaking Keith Bogans shot better than him in the playoffs.

He's not the sole reason we lost the series, but he's a marginal player on a position where we should be getting a lot more production for 20 mpg.

[Bill_Brasky]

I don't even hate Bonner. I just hate that he is used too much. If Pop used him right he would be a great player in our system. Just 10 minutes here and there as-needed, and he would make plenty of 3's, without feeling so much pressure. Right now he is asked to do too much, things that he physically can't do, because we are so thin at the PF position. Adding another solid post/rebounding player to that rotation would be perfect.

[underdawg]

I thought Bonner improved this past year and hit some big shots against the Grizzlies in game 1. The series was lost due to Memphis eating us up in the paint.

They defended the paint and TP shied away from it (as usual in the playoffs) and threw up crap jumpers and didn't control the clock well.

We looked like amateurs and folded under pressure. That's why we lost against Memphis. Not because of Bonner. RJ was RJ and wasn't taking the ball to the rim aggressively or getting to the free throw line.

Pathetic.

understandable argument, but the reality is the Spurs need somebody better than Bonner to get his minutes. Bonner had a great 3pt %, but he still only averaged 7 and 3 per game. With the mileage and age on the big 3, the Spurs need a lot more. Bonner does not play good defense and he doesn't even foul when needed. If you're only getting 7 and 3 (and no impact on defense) out of a 20+ minute player, a stellar 3pt % doesn't really matter.

[Lukor]

Why is Bonner unable to run like a normal human being? He needs to consult a running coach asap.

[Sean Cagney]

Damn, if the Spurs could some how get the best 3 pt shooting guy in the league then we might....wait. Oh yeah.

Ridiculous Bonner hate still alive. RJ deserves criticism. He was brought in to be a difference maker. Bonner was brought in to make 3 pointers. That's what he did better than anyone in the league.

He isn't the best shooter later in the year or the playoffs! He does well in the first half and gets his % very high, then later on it dwindles down and then we have playoff BONNER! He warms up early it seems towards the end of the season for his choke jobs.

He also when not hitting that shot does nothing else, so why not hate him? I hate him and RJ, wish they both were gone last year.
I don't even hate Bonner. I just hate that he is used too much. If Pop used him right he would be a great player in our system. Just 10 minutes here and there as-needed, and he would make plenty of 3's, without feeling so much pressure. Right now he is asked to do too much, things that he physically can't do, because we are so thin at the PF position. Adding another solid post/rebounding player to that rotation would be perfect.

THIS IS THE FLAT OUT TRUTH!

[Blake]

He isn't the best shooter later in the year or the playoffs! He does well in the first half and gets his % very high, then later on it dwindles down and then we have playoff BONNER! He warms up early it seems towards the end of the season for his choke jobs.

He also when not hitting that shot does nothing else, so why not hate him? I hate him and RJ, wish they both were gone last year.

THIS IS THE FLAT OUT TRUTH!

regular season Bonner shot .457 from 3 point range

playoff Bonner this year was 6 of 18 for .333
Two more makes and playoff Bonner is .444
Three more makes and playoff Bonner is .500

lol the truth.

[GSH]

regular season Bonner shot .457 from 3 point range

playoff Bonner this year was 6 of 18 for .333
Two more makes and playoff Bonner is .444
Three more makes and playoff Bonner is .500

lol the truth.


Exactly. The ignorance of looking at small samples. A couple of shots rattle out, and the guy can't score in the playoffs. A couple of those shots fall, and he's the best shooter in the world.

They don't bother to look at how many of those were desperation shots taken right at the buzzer, because the offense stalled. And they don't need to remember things like passes that were so far off the mark that he had to reach and get re-set, which gave the defender time to close. (Shots that would have been wide open, if the pass had been delivered decently.)

Bonner can't defend Zach Randolph heads up, everyone knows it. But it's not like there was a lot of help defense going on in that series - at least not by the Spurs.

Simple minds look for simple answers. And most of the time they find them. The fact is, the biggest reasons the Spurs lost that series were all on the Memphis side of the equation. And on the Spurs' side, the biggest factors were Tony being off his game and RJ being a non-factor.

[underdawg]

regular season Bonner shot .457 from 3 point range

playoff Bonner this year was 6 of 18 for .333
Two more makes and playoff Bonner is .444
Three more makes and playoff Bonner is .500

lol the truth.

Some more truth for you - Jefferson was 6 for 17 from 3pt land

lol excuses

[ElNono]

Isn't that the point though? That he didn't make them? That's his specialty and what he brings to the team. I mean, we can play the 'what if' game with everybody. If Randolph doesn't make that three pointer, if RJ makes 3 more shots, if Manu takes a shot at the end of game 3...

Matty was actually shooting lights out during the RS all the way through February/March... then he really started shooting badly, which dipped his 3pt % considerably.

[ElNono]

Exactly. The ignorance of looking at small samples. A couple of shots rattle out, and the guy can't score in the playoffs. A couple of those shots fall, and he's the best shooter in the world.

3 straight playoffs is a small sample? How much longer we need to wait?

[Sean Cagney]

regular season Bonner shot .457 from 3 point range

playoff Bonner this year was 6 of 18 for .333
Two more makes and playoff Bonner is .444
Three more makes and playoff Bonner is .500

lol the truth.

How about one less or two less? SO you are saying if he makes more he is .500!!!!!! 6 threes in 6 games! HOLY SHIT thats great and game changing :rollin:rollin. He is not good in the playoffs, .333 is not good! He should make more the time he is out there.

BTW he was shooting 54% until later in the year, that number dipped at the end of the year when softies annual slump started to happen as usual. He gives up more pts on D than he makes threes easily and doesn't rebound, so why is he good again?


If he did not get so many minutes I would not mind, but this dude is a key player in the rotation and if his shot is not falling he is horrible out there.

[Sean Cagney]

Exactly. The ignorance of looking at small samples. A couple of shots rattle out, and the guy can't score in the playoffs. A couple of those shots fall, and he's the best shooter in the world.

They don't bother to look at how many of those were desperation shots taken right at the buzzer, because the offense stalled. And they don't need to remember things like passes that were so far off the mark that he had to reach and get re-set, which gave the defender time to close. (Shots that would have been wide open, if the pass had been delivered decently.)

Bonner can't defend Zach Randolph heads up, everyone knows it. But it's not like there was a lot of help defense going on in that series - at least not by the Spurs.

Simple minds look for simple answers. And most of the time they find them. The fact is, the biggest reasons the Spurs lost that series were all on the Memphis side of the equation. And on the Spurs' side, the biggest factors were Tony being off his game and RJ being a non-factor.

Get f in real he does this crap every year bro! Some rattled out, okay so they did not go in and he shot 33% right? What about last year and the year before? What did he shoot? This guy can't guard anyone from Randolph to Gasol to Aurthur etc. etc. when he entered the game to cover Aurthur I knew he would get lit up :( He did at will.

Tony being off his game hurt alot yes, Hill not being in there balling sucked as well! RJ is just RJ, but he made the same threes as Bonner so they both did just about nothing! Spurs lost for several Reasons, Bonners D was defintely one of them so yes he is part to blame.

I remember Horry hitting 5 threes in a game or Bowen hitting 7! Finley 8! Kerr 4 and on and on, in one DAMN GAME! 6 -18 in a series is not getting it done, a three a game with that horrible D he has and no rebounding makes him a burden out there

[itzsoweezee]

Bonner was brought in to make 3 pointers. That's what he did better than anyone in the league.

Except when it mattered, faggot. Numerous playoff collapses have closed the book on Boner. He's a scrub, and he always will be.

[Halberto]

LOL at making the kid get the ball.... he really hates to rebound eh?

[Blake]

How about one less or two less? SO you are saying if he makes more he is .500!!!!!! 6 threes in 6 games! HOLY SHIT thats great and game changing :rollin:rollin. He is not good in the playoffs, .333 is not good! He should make more the time he is out there.


9 threes in 6 games shooting .500 would have changed nothing either.

HOLY SHIT it's almost July and the Bonner/Pop hate is still incredibly strong.

[Warlord23]

9 threes in 6 games shooting .500 would have changed nothing either.

Yes, Bonner being the worst rebounder as well as the worst defender among all PFS in the entire NBA playoffs means that he needs to make a lot more than 9 FGs in a series to be a net positive.

[ElNono]

9 threes in 6 games shooting .500 would have changed nothing either.

Not so sure about that. When somebody is shooting lights out (and .50 would've been lights out), you have to pay attention to him. Which is the entire premise of "stretching the floor". It's not volume scoring, but to be enough of a threat to force the other team to pay attention to you, opening the middle to your teammates.

Lots of these games were close too. Not sure it would've worked in the long run, but Matty has more problems than just a weak mind on offense.


HOLY SHIT it's almost July and the Bonner/Pop hate is still incredibly strong.

Why wouldn't it be? :lol
Pop keeps trotting that walking liability for 20mpg, and he's still in the roster.

[Blake]

Yes, Bonner being the worst rebounder as well as the worst defender among all PFS in the entire NBA playoffs means that he needs to make a lot more than 9 FGs in a series to be a net positive.


I'm not sure any of the Spurs were net positives for the entire Memphis series.

Bonner +/-

game 1 (L): -10

game 2 (W): +3

game 3 (L): -10

game 4 (L): -3 (best +/- on team (playing more than 6 minutes))

game 5 (W): 0

game 6 (L): +8 (best +/- on team)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2011042929&old_bs=1


If the Spurs had pulled out game 1, Bonner would have been a hero with his 4th quarter late threes.

The continued hate for Bonner is incredibly ridiculous.

:lol

[Blake]

Why wouldn't it be? :lol
Pop keeps trotting that walking liability for 20mpg, and he's still in the roster.

because it's not all Bonner's fault.

All of the Spurs sucked at key times in the series, Bonner less than others.

[ElNono]

And back to cherry picking plus/minus to gauge individual player performance... :lol

We've come full circle here...

And the hate is not entirely on Matty who is a rather mediocre talent (nothing new there), is also at Pop for handing out such mediocre talent that big of a role.

[ElNono]

because it's not all Bonner's fault.

All of the Spurs sucked at key times in the series.

Nobody is saying is all Bonner's fault. Heck, I've personally been cautious to point that out time and time again. He's a significant part of the problem though (well, the combination of him being mediocre and Pop handing him a large role). This has been a weak spot in this roster for 3 seasons going... ofcourse people are tired of seeing the same shit over and over again.

[ElNono]

IOW, it doesn't matter how good a defender Leonard is if you still have such a weak link inside. That's why people keep on harping on this point. We're not going to get better defensively giving a clear path to the basket for 20mpg...

[ElNono]

And Mel_13 can attest my hate for Bonner has been unwavering in at least the past 3+ seasons... :lol

[Blake]

And back to cherry picking plus/minus to gauge individual player performance... :lol

No cherry picking. Warlord23 brought up net positives. Just pointing out what the +/- stats actually were.


And the hate is not entirely on Matty who is a rather mediocre talent (nothing new there), is also at Pop for handing out such mediocre talent that big of a role.

Right. Bonner/Pop hate.

I'm wondering where the Pop/Bonner hate was right after the regular season was over and the Spurs had the #1 seed in the West.

Ridiculous, imo. :lol

[ElNono]

No cherry picking. Warlord23 brought up net positives. Just pointing out what the +/- stats actually were.

Plus/Minus are calculated on entire 5 man lineups. There's no actual way to gauge individual plus/minus as players don't play alone. Which is why it's a terrible stat to extrapolate individual performance from.

I didn't take his 'net positive' to indicate a reference to plus/minus, but as to his contributions vs what he gives away.


Right. Bonner/Pop hate.

I'm wondering where the Pop/Bonner hate was right after the regular season was over and the Spurs had the #1 seed in the West.

I was still calling it fool's gold. Sorry you missed it.
Bonner's 3 point shooting sinking in the last month of the regular season was just a prelude of what we knew was coming. He was just getting in playoff's form. I even admitted that I would give him his due if he didn't choke this time around. He just insists in making my predictions about him look good. :lol


Ridiculous, imo. :lol

:lol What's ridiculous is that we threw money at this guy last season when we could've let him walk.

[Blake]

Plus/Minus are calculated on entire 5 man lineups. There's no actual way to gauge individual plus/minus as players don't play alone. Which is why it's a terrible stat to extrapolate individual performance from.

I didn't take his 'net positive' to indicate a reference to plus/minus, but as to his contributions vs what he gives away.

right.

his +/- during the series does nothing really to indicate that he deserves so much hate.

Please explain what he gave away that deserves so much hate.



I was still calling it fool's gold. Sorry you missed it.
Bonner's 3 point shooting sinking in the last month of the regular season was just a prelude of what we knew was coming. He was just getting in playoff's form. I even admitted that I would give him his due if he didn't choke this time around. He just insists in making my predictions about him look good. :lol


Where exactly did he choke?


:lol What's ridiculous is that we threw money at this guy last season when we could've let him walk.

I don't have any problems with the Spurs paying $3 million for the NBAs top 3 point shooter. Still not sure why a lot of people do.

That's why it's funny.

[cheguevara]

Bonner is a NBDL caliber player playing prime NBA minutes. If someone does not see a problem there, they are in a pretty sad state themselves.

[Mel_13]

And Mel_13 can attest my hate for Bonner has been unwavering in at least the past 3+ seasons... :lol

This is true.

ElNono is no bandwagoner or Johnny-come-lately when we're talking about Bonner hate.

He's been steadfast in his position since the 08-09 season.

:toast

[Blake]

Bonner is a NBDL caliber player playing prime NBA minutes.

what are you basing this NBDL caliber assumption on?


If someone does not see a problem there, they are in a pretty sad state themselves.

I think the hate for Bonner/Pop for the last three years has been sad.....yet funny.

[cheguevara]

what are you basing this NBDL caliber assumption on?


on the fact that every opponent that faces a Bonner 1-1 defense starts salivating and eyes light up. Then proceeds to break Bonner's ankles and 90% of the time results in points for their team.

on the fact that Bonner always looks over at Pop everytime he does something stupid which is 80% of the time.

on the fact when he faces a hand in his face while shooting 3s. His % drops to around 20%.

[Warlord23]

+/- is so flawed that I'm not sure if Blake is trolling by quoting Bonner's +/- stats.

When Lebron James scored 29 of the last 30 points in game 5 of the '07 ECF vs the Pistons to lead the Cavs to an improbable victory on the road, Boobie Gibson and Sasha Pavlovic had the same +/- as James over that stretch, so do they get equal credit as James for that victory?

A player can achieve a +/- score either by willing his team single-handedly to victory with little help from his teammates, or get the same score by standing around doing nothing watching a superstar carry his team.

[Warlord23]

Imagine the following sequence:

Ginobili and-1 for 3 points
Bonner dunked on by Darrel Arthur for 2 points
Ginobili hits a 3 off a Duncan screen
Bonner gets dunked on by Z-Bo for 2 points
Bonner misses wide open 3
Bonner gets dunked on by Sam Young for 2 points
Ginobili makes a tough runner in the lane for 2 points
Bonner gives up an offensive rebound and putback by Shane Battier for 2 points


Since both the Spurs and Grizz score 8 points over the above stretch, Bonner's +/- is the same as Ginobili's. Does that indicate that Bonner did as good a job (giving up 8 points, giving up an offensive rebound, missing his only shot) as Ginobili (scored 8 points on 3 shots, makes no mistake on defense)?

[cheguevara]

Bonner is known around the league as the guy who when is on the floor, you give the ball to whoever he is guarding. He makes basketball easy... for the opponent. This is a known fact which was made famous with Rasheed Wallace.

6 fucking years and this does not change.

[ElNono]

right.

his +/- during the series does nothing really to indicate that he deserves so much hate.

His +/- is a terrible gauge of his individual performance in the series, period.
Same applies to every other Spurs for that matter. It's just the wrong stat to gauge player's individual performances, simply because there's much more better stats for that.


Please explain what he gave away that deserves so much hate.

He allowed a guy like Darrell Arthur to shoot 55% from the field. It's the same Darrell Arthur that could only shoot 38% in the next round and averages 46% career-wise. By Game 4, we were commenting in the game thread how Arthur was going straight at him for 3+ consecutive possessions, even when ZBo was out there on the floor.

Then the usual stuff he gives up due to his general ineptitude to box out, rebound and take charges: Second chances, 3 point plays...


Where exactly did he choke?

Really?

Season RS-3P% Playoffs-3P%
08-09 44% 23%
09-10 39% 37%
10-11 46% 33%

He's our "3 point specialist", and the reason is that he's absolutely mediocre at anything else. If he can't even provide his specialty, then he's pretty much useless.


I don't have any problems with the Spurs paying $3 million for the NBAs top 3 point shooter. Still not sure why a lot of people do.

He's not the NBA's top 3 point shooter. He wasn't in the regular season and obviously not even close in the playoffs, when it really matters, for a team that supposedly had championship aspirations. And the Spurs are paying him a guaranteed $9 million over 3 years. Heck, $12 million if they pick up the last year's option.


That's why it's funny.

What's going to be funny is when we have to add Splitter as a sweetner to dump that contract because nobody would take on it otherwise :lol

[ElNono]

This is true.

ElNono is no bandwagoner or Johnny-come-lately when we're talking about Bonner hate.

He's been steadfast in his position since the 08-09 season.

:toast

:lol :toast

[Blake]

His +/- is a terrible gauge of his individual performance in the series, period.
Same applies to every other Spurs for that matter. It's just the wrong stat to gauge player's individual performances, simply because there's much more better stats for that.

great, give the better stats that shows why he deserves the hate.


He allowed a guy like Darrell Arthur to shoot 55% from the field. It's the same Darrell Arthur that could only shoot 38% in the next round and averages 46% career-wise. By Game 4, we were commenting in the game thread how Arthur was going straight at him for 3+ consecutive possessions, even when ZBo was out there on the floor.

Was Bonner defending Arthur every time he shot?


Really?

Season RS-3P% Playoffs-3P%
08-09 44% 23%
09-10 39% 37%
10-11 46% 33%

08-09: you might have an argument.

09-10: 2% difference isn't a choke no matter how much hate fuels the reasoning

10-11: again, 2-3 more makes out of 18 shots and he is right at average.....in a 6 game sample.....I don't see the choke.


He's not the NBA's top 3 point shooter.

You are nitpicking percentage vs makes?

Wow, the hate is strong.

:lol


He wasn't in the regular season and obviously not even close in the playoffs, when it really matters, for a team that supposedly had championship aspirations. And the Spurs are paying him a guaranteed $9 million over 3 years. Heck, $12 million if they pick up the last year's option.

$3 million a year is fair for Bonner, imo.

I still don't see a good reason for the hate.

[ElNono]

great, give the better stats that shows why he deserves the hate.

Already done, plenty of times. You can go back to the multiple threads discussing this over the years if you feel inclined. I think the last one was with chazley a few months back.


Was Bonner defending Arthur every time he shot?

A good amount of time. Especially when Arthur was purposely attacking Bonner. There's no need to take my word for it, you can go back and watch the games, bump the relevant threads.


08-09: you might have an argument.

09-10: 2% difference isn't a choke no matter how much hate fuels the reasoning

Oh yes it is, this was probably the worse. You're looking at the numbers but not at the details.
Spurs played 10 playoff games that season. Matty's 3Pt in the first 8 games (6 vs Dallas, 2 vs Suns): 5-22 or 22%. He was 3-4 and 2-3 in the last two games to bump up the percentage numbers.

Ultimately, I can argue he sucked all season long. 37% for somebody that brings absolutely nothing else to the table is not enough to offset what he gives up on the other end.


10-11: again, 2-3 more makes out of 18 shots and he is right at average.....in a 6 game sample.....I don't see the choke.

If Kobe didn't mostly suck in the Finals, he would be Jordan.
The whole "coulda, shoulda, woulda" misses the point completely. If he would have made those shots maybe we wouldn't have lost, and maybe he wouldn't be criticized.


You are nitpicking percentage vs makes?
Wow, the hate is strong.
:lol


I actually take that back. I thought Ray Allen surpassed him in percentage in the last month of the regular season, when Matt's shooting plummeted.

That said, it doesn't change the fact that his shooting took a nose dive during the playoffs (#39 overall (http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/3PointS.jsp?league=00&season=42010&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=))


$3 million a year is fair for Bonner, imo.

There's certainly worse contracts in the league. He just isn't the player the Spurs need in that position. Which makes $3 million we could be spending on a player that's actually useful.


I still don't see a good reason for the hate.

I'm not going to try to convince you. Matty makes my points for me year in and year out. :lol

[jjktkk]

I don't even hate Bonner. I just hate that he is used too much. If Pop used him right he would be a great player in our system. Just 10 minutes here and there as-needed, and he would make plenty of 3's, without feeling so much pressure. Right now he is asked to do too much, things that he physically can't do, because we are so thin at the PF position. Adding another solid post/rebounding player to that rotation would be perfect.

This.

[ElNono]

I'm all for a reduced role for him. A role like Cardinal/Mahinmi in Dallas when Haywood wasn't hurt.

[jjktkk]

Most of us know Bonner gets too many minutes. We have to hope the Spur's FO can, somehow, land a starting 4/5, to play alongside Duncan, which, hopefully, keeps Bonner in a reduced role.

[ElNono]

Most of us know Bonner gets too many minutes. We have to hope the Spur's FO can, somehow, land a starting 4/5, to play alongside Duncan, which, hopefully, keeps Bonner in a reduced role.

Should've happened two seasons ago :madrun :madrun :madrun

:lol

[hater]

:lol a 3 page discussion on why Bonner doesn't suck.

this shit has been proven over and over during the playoffs.

[Blake]

on the fact that every opponent that faces a Bonner 1-1 defense starts salivating and eyes light up. Then proceeds to break Bonner's ankles and 90% of the time results in points for their team.

on the fact that Bonner always looks over at Pop everytime he does something stupid which is 80% of the time.

on the fact when he faces a hand in his face while shooting 3s. His % drops to around 20%.

and you got these percentage stats from where?

my guess is from the hate.

[Blake]

+/- is so flawed that I'm not sure if Blake is trolling by quoting Bonner's +/- stats.

you brought up net positives, not me. +/- shows net positives and negatives for the team when a player is on the floor.

If you have stats that aren't flawed that justify the hate, please provide. I'd love to see them.


When Lebron James scored 29 of the last 30 points in game 5 of the '07 ECF vs the Pistons to lead the Cavs to an improbable victory on the road, Boobie Gibson and Sasha Pavlovic had the same +/- as James over that stretch, so do they get equal credit as James for that victory?

A player can achieve a +/- score either by willing his team single-handedly to victory with little help from his teammates, or get the same score by standing around doing nothing watching a superstar carry his team.

you brought up net positives.

statistically show how Bonner was a net negative, deserving of such hate.

[ElNono]

I'll give you a statistical anomaly of Matty, using some of the stats normally used to gauge individual performance. There's not one, not a single one, advanced stat that he either sustains or improves from the regular season to the playoffs.

Regular Season Advanced Stats:

PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
14.3 .585 .568 6.6 15.7 11.2 6.3 1.3 1.2 7.6 15.7 119 107 17.2 10.1 27.3 0.141

Playoffs Advanced Stats:

PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
8.3 .523 .490 5.9 13.7 9.8 3.1 0.9 1.1 10.7 13.5 105 110 0.2 0.3 0.5 0.053

source (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bonnema01.html)

[Cessation]

Ginger shot 26% from 3, last 2 months of the season including the playoffs. I'm sure that stat is more accure than plus/minus.

[Blake]

Already done, plenty of times. You can go back to the multiple threads discussing this over the years if you feel inclined. I think the last one was with chazley a few months back.

I'm not inclined.

I'll continue to laugh at the hate.


A good amount of time. Especially when Arthur was purposely attacking Bonner. There's no need to take my word for it, you can go back and watch the games, bump the relevant threads.

you said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner" and now you say "you go find it".

:lol

meh, I'm betting your hatred for Bonner and my amusement of such hatred will still persist, whether I debunk your claim or not.


Oh yes it is, this was probably the worse. You're looking at the numbers but not at the details.
Spurs played 10 playoff games that season. Matty's 3Pt in the first 8 games (6 vs Dallas, 2 vs Suns): 5-22 or 22%. He was 3-4 and 2-3 in the last two games to bump up the percentage numbers.

so he bumped up the numbers. so what?

it's not a choke. :lol


Ultimately, I can argue he sucked all season long. 37% for somebody that brings absolutely nothing else to the table is not enough to offset what he gives up on the other end.

37%? where are you getting this from?


If Kobe didn't mostly suck in the Finals, he would be Jordan.
The whole "coulda, shoulda, woulda" misses the point completely. If he would have made those shots maybe we wouldn't have lost, and maybe he wouldn't be criticized.

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol the hate for this guy is just fucking hilarious.

ok, which 2 or 3 shots did he miss that might have changed the course of the playoffs for the Spurs.



I actually take that back. I thought Ray Allen surpassed him in percentage in the last month of the regular season, when Matt's shooting plummeted.

That said, it doesn't change the fact that his shooting took a nose dive during the playoffs (#39 overall (http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/3PointS.jsp?league=00&season=42010&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=))

lol nosedive

:lol


There's certainly worse contracts in the league. He just isn't the player the Spurs need in that position. Which makes $3 million we could be spending on a player that's actually useful.

I'm not going to try to convince you. Matty makes my points for me year in and year out. :lol

That's a lot of effort to not try to convince me.

I still don't see the point of such hatred.

[Blake]

I'll give you a statistical anomaly of Matty, using some of the stats normally used to gauge individual performance. There's not one, not a single one, advanced stat that he either sustains or improves from the regular season to the playoffs.

Regular Season Advanced Stats:

PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
14.3 .585 .568 6.6 15.7 11.2 6.3 1.3 1.2 7.6 15.7 119 107 17.2 10.1 27.3 0.141

Playoffs Advanced Stats:

PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
8.3 .523 .490 5.9 13.7 9.8 3.1 0.9 1.1 10.7 13.5 105 110 0.2 0.3 0.5 0.053

source (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bonnema01.html)

great. which of these numbers exactly jumps out at you that causes such hatred.

have you looked at the numbers of all the Spurs and were there any that actually improved their numbers from the regular season?

[cheguevara]

and you got these percentage stats from where?

my guess is from the hate.

:lmao If you need percentage stats to decide that Bonner sucks, you really have other pressing issues in your life

[ElNono]

I'm not inclined.
I'll continue to laugh at the hate.

Nobody is stopping you.


you said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner" and now you say "you go find it". :cry :cry :cry

It's real easy to see that Arthur shot 55% in the first round (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/darrell_arthur/). You have to go see the games to see who scored the bulk of those points against.

Again, don't take my word for it. Since it's evident that you care, go find out by yourself.

Oh, and if you're going to say "you said xxxx", please quote me. Because I can't find in this thread where I said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner". I actually would have to go back and look at the games, but I think that percentage is actually higher against him. ;)


meh, I'm betting your hatred for Bonner and my amusement of such hatred will still persist, whether I debunk your claim or not.

That's ok. I'm actually entertained by this discussion.
You also haven't proven that the hate is misguided or dispelled the notion that Bonner is anything but a mediocre player.


so he bumped up the numbers. so what?

So he did choke in the playoffs.


it's not a choke. :lol

Sure it is.


37%? where are you getting this from?

In the previous post:

09-10 39% 37%


:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry the hate for this guy is just fucking hilarious.

You don't need to apologize for him. He's what he is: a mediocre player.


ok, which 2 or 3 shots did he miss that might have changed the course of the playoffs for the Spurs.

Already explained earlier in the thread:

Not so sure about that. When somebody is shooting lights out (and .50 would've been lights out), you have to pay attention to him. Which is the entire premise of "stretching the floor". It's not volume scoring, but to be enough of a threat to force the other team to pay attention to you, opening the middle to your teammates.

Fact is, he was left wide open to take shots as the series wore on, and he either clanked them or passed them up. Watch the games.



lol nosedive
:lol



Ginger shot 26% from 3, last 2 months of the season

lol indeed


That's a lot of effort to not try to convince me.

That I'm not trying to convince you doesn't mean that this topic doesn't amuse me. It's actually a great way to re-hash that dude's mediocre game and vent about it.
You're far from the first guy I have an argument with about this. Sorry.


I still don't see the point of such hatred.

Okay.

[Blake]

:lmao If you need percentage stats to decide that Bonner sucks, you really have other pressing issues in your life

I don't.

I think it's funny you waste time in your life hating Bonner.

[Chomag]

Blake, if you stopped looking at just stats and watch the actual games I wouldn't know how you could say what you are saying with a strait face.

[cheguevara]

I don't.

I think it's funny you waste time in your life hating Bonner.

I will stop hating on Bonner when he is gone from the team or chained to the bench. It's all on Pop's hands.

[Blake]

Ginger shot 26% from 3, last 2 months of the season including the playoffs. I'm sure that stat is more accure than plus/minus.

so he shot worse than 26% in the last 2 months going into the playoffs.

since this is true, how many fewer minutes should Bonner have played then in the playoffs and do the Spurs get by the Grizz if he plays less?

[jjktkk]

I don't.

I think it's funny you waste time in your life hating Bonner.

Its just as funny watching you attepting to defend Bonner with useless stats. :toast

[ElNono]

since this is true, how many fewer minutes should Bonner have played then in the playoffs and do the Spurs get by the Grizz if he plays less?

Strawman alert...

http://www.gt-performance.com/a_alarm34.gif

:lol

[ElNono]

tbh, surprised Fabbs haven't chimed in with some Popper Tea Party and some pics such as:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=54&pictureid=1398

:lol

[Blake]

Nobody is stopping you.

I know.


It's real easy to see that Arthur shot 55% in the first round (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/darrell_arthur/). You have to go see the games to see who scored the bulk of those points against.

Define 'bulk'


Again, don't take my word for it. Since it's evident that you care, go find out by yourself.

I don't care enough about your hatred for Bonner to verify your claims.


Oh, and if you're going to say "you said xxxx", please quote me. Because I can't find in this thread where I said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner". I actually would have to go back and look at the games, but I think that percentage is actually higher against him. ;)

you:


He allowed a guy like Darrell Arthur to shoot 55% from the field.


That's ok. I'm actually entertained by this discussion.
You also haven't proven that the hate is misguided or dispelled the notion that Bonner is anything but a mediocre player.

I don't care to prove the hate is misguided.

I think it's hilarious that nobody can really justify their own hate for Bonner.

I've also never entertained the notion that Bonner is better than mediocre.


So he did choke in the playoffs.

Not by any definition of choke that I know.


Sure it is.

It's nothing but hate on your part, imo. :lol


In the previous post:

09-10 39% 37%

so you are talking about the 2% drop during the playoffs from the regular season.

such choking has never been seen in the history of choking


You don't need to apologize for him. He's what he is: a mediocre player.

Such extreme hate on this board for a rather average/mediocre player.


Already explained earlier in the thread:

Fact is, he was left wide open to take shots as the series wore on, and he either clanked them or passed them up. Watch the games.

I did. Which two or three shots exactly did he miss that you believe would have swayed the series in favor of the Spurs?



That I'm not trying to convince you doesn't mean that this topic doesn't amuse me. It's actually a great way to re-hash that dude's mediocre game and vent about it.
You're far from the first guy I have an argument with about this. Sorry.

No apology necessary.

Keeping on venting about a guy you really don't have much reason to hate on. It's good stuff. :tu


Okay.

k. :tu

[Blake]

Strawman alert...

http://www.gt-performance.com/a_alarm34.gif

:lol

it might be a bit of a leading question, but it's a question, not an argument.

thus the question mark at the end of the question.

[Blake]

Blake, if you stopped looking at just stats and watch the actual games I wouldn't know how you could say what you are saying with a strait face.

I did watch the games.

I hated all the Spurs equally for their poor playoff performances.

I don't see where Bonner gets the extra hate while others get a pass.

[Blake]

Its just as funny watching you attepting to defend Bonner with useless stats. :toast

It's funnier that you think I'm defending Bonner.

[cheguevara]

I did watch the games.

I hated all the Spurs equally for their poor playoff performances.

I don't see where Bonner gets the extra hate while others get a pass.

go back and watch the last 3 playoff runs. Bonner sucked in every single one of them.

Tell me 1 current spur player not named RJ that has sucked on a more consistent basis?

[underdawg]

$3 million a year is fair for Bonner, imo.

I still don't see a good reason for the hate.

That's where the problem lies - Bonner making 3 mil on another team might be alright, but on the Spurs it's wasted in his lack of an all around game.

The Spurs had 8 players making over $1 mil last year and only 6 making $3 mil or more. What did a $3 million player like Bonner get the Spurs in the playoffs? A total of 2 assists, one block and one steal in 6 games in 20 mpg.

Again this might be ok for a team like Dallas that had 14 players on their team making over $1 million, but on a team like the Spurs it's not enough.

[Warlord23]

you brought up net positives, not me. +/- shows net positives and negatives for the team when a player is on the floor.

If you have stats that aren't flawed that justify the hate, please provide. I'd love to see them.



you brought up net positives.

statistically show how Bonner was a net negative, deserving of such hate.

Is there a statistic that proves that Bowen deserved his All-Defensive selections? Is there a stat that shows that any particular player is the MVP? Not everything needs a statistic to be accepted as true.

[cheguevara]

In PLAYOFF games where Bonner has gotten > 10 MPG:
18MPG
37%FG
31%3P
3.2 Rebounds
0.2 Steals
0.2 Blocks
5.1 Points

yes. Spursfans who hate Bonner have no reason to do so :rolleyes :rolleyes

[ElNono]

Define 'bulk'

"the greater part"


I don't care enough about your hatred for Bonner to verify your claims. :cry :cry :cry

Sure you don't. :lol
That's why you're still answering.


you:

Me: "He allowed a guy like Darrell Arthur to shoot 55% from the field."
You: you said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner"

So I never said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner".
That's what I thought.


I don't care to prove the hate is misguided.

I think it's hilarious that nobody can really justify their own hate for Bonner.

I've also never entertained the notion that Bonner is better than mediocre.

I disagree. I think it's been rehashed many times, and season after season Matty and Pop drive the points home. Heck, I remember being in the minority three seasons ago, unlike now, when there's a fairly large bandwagon.

On the other hand, I think it's hilarious that there's still people out there that can justify Bonner being around and handed the contract and role he has, or denying he has choked time and time again. Especially those that acknowledge him to be mediocre.


so you are talking about the 2% drop during the playoffs from the regular season.

No.


such choking has never been seen in the history of choking

Strawman. How much he choked doesn't make him any less of a choker. Especially when that's his specialty and the only thing that brings to the table.


Such extreme hate on this board for a rather average/mediocre player.

Define 'extreme hate'?


I did. Which two or three shots exactly did he miss that you believe would have swayed the series in favor of the Spurs?

Already answered. Posted once and re-quoted one more time.


Keeping on venting about a guy you really don't have much reason to hate on. It's good stuff. :tu

You bet I'm gonna keep venting until he's gone. Especially after the plus/minus apologist brigade comes around. :lol

As che said: It's in Pop's hands.

[ElNono]

I don't see where Bonner gets the extra hate while others get a pass.

Who do you think gets a pass? Serious question.

[Blake]

Who do you think gets a pass? Serious question.

I don't think anyone should get a pass.

That's why I find these Bonner hate threads calling him a "choker" funny.

[ElNono]

I don't think anyone should get a pass.

I'm gonna admit I give more leeway to 1st year players. IMO, guys like Neal are just getting his feet wet, and I really can't hold him to the same standards as a vet.


That's why I find these Bonner hate threads calling him a "choker" funny.

Well, the OP was about only Bonner. You want to make a thread to harp about Tony disappearing for a couple of games, I'm sure you'll find some people to harp along with. :lol

[jjktkk]

I'm gonna admit I give more leeway to 1st year players. IMO, guys like Neal are just getting his feet wet, and I really can hold him to the same standards as a vet.



Well, the OP was about only Bonner. You want to make a thread to harp about Tony disappearing for a couple of games, I'm sure you'll find some people to harp along with. :lol

Cue Geroge Hill's fantasy owner, tjastal. :lol

[Blake]

"the greater part"

your basing such hate on a vague definiton?

telling.


Sure you don't. :lol
That's why you're still answering.

Right, I don't.

That's why I'm still not searching thru old threads.


Me: "He allowed a guy like Darrell Arthur to shoot 55% from the field."
You: you said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner"

So I never said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner".
That's what I thought.

Who is the "he" in "he allowed Darrell Arthur to shoot 55%"?



I disagree. I think it's been rehashed many times, and season after season Matty and Pop drive the points home. Heck, I remember being in the minority three seasons ago, unlike now, when there's a fairly large bandwagon.

On the other hand, I think it's hilarious that there's still people out there that can justify Bonner being around and handed the contract and role he has, or denying he has choked time and time again. Especially those that acknowledge him to be mediocre.

I'm not really denying he's choked as much as I'm saying that the instances where you say he's choked aren't choke jobs.

Mediocrity is nothing to really hate Bonner on, imo.


No.

you said 37%.
39% is what he shot in the regular season 2009-2010
37% is what he shot in the playoffs 2009-2010.
2% drop.
severe hate.


Strawman. How much he choked doesn't make him any less of a choker. Especially when that's his specialty and the only thing that brings to the table.

it would be a strawman if I actually thought he choked.

Do you hate all such 2% chokers equally or just Bonner?


Define 'extreme hate'?

Threads started to make fun of Bonner, pictures doing the same and posters saying they have hated Bonner for years and will continue to do so until Pop removes him.

Extreme hate, imo.


Already answered. Posted once and re-quoted one more time.

You never answered which exact shots in which exact game.

You re-quoted your non-answer.


You bet I'm gonna keep venting until he's gone. Especially after the plus/minus apologist brigade comes around. :lol

As che said: It's in Pop's hands.

Extreme hate, imo.

:lol

[Blake]

Well, the OP was about only Bonner. You want to make a thread to harp about Tony disappearing for a couple of games, I'm sure you'll find some people to harp along with. :lol

I'm sure I would. He played a lot worse than many of us expected him to.

That said, I don't think Bonner played a whole lot worse than many of us expected him to, yet the hate threads appear to be worse.

I haven't seen any offseason training video threads of Parker or girl hair photoshop pics of him..... have you?

[Stalin]

mediocre troll job, 5/10

[ElNono]

your basing such hate on a vague definiton?

Could you please describe how much I hate Bonner? :lol
Please be specific.


Right, I don't. That's why I'm still not searching thru old threads.

As I said before, much to my entertainment, you're still engaged in this conversation. That's why you definitely care. :lol


Who is the "he" in "he allowed a guy like Darrell Arthur to shoot 55%"?

Matt Bonner...

So, I never said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner". I didn't think so.


I'm not really denying he's choked

There it is.


as much as I'm saying that the instances where you say he's choked aren't choke jobs.

Mediocrity is nothing to really hate Bonner on, imo.

Well, I provided some information to back up my choking claims. If you don't want to verify them, or counter them, because you don't care or otherwise, then that's entirely on you.

And I never claimed I hate Bonner because he's mediocre. I did state he is mediocre, but not the reason for the hate. Not sure where you got that from. Quote?



you said 37%.
39% is what he shot in the regular season 2009-2010
37% is what he shot in the playoffs 2009-2010.
2% drop.
severe hate.


No, I said:


Ultimately, I can argue he sucked all season long. 37% for somebody that brings absolutely nothing else to the table is not enough to offset what he gives up on the other end.

And I pointed out where the 37% came from.


it would be a strawman if I actually thought he choked.

I'm not really denying he's choked

:lol


Do you hate all such 2% chokers equally or just Bonner?

I hate equally as much players that choke 15% for 8 games and show up only for 2.


Threads started to make fun of Bonner, pictures doing the same and posters saying they have hated Bonner for years and will continue to do so until Pop removes him.

We know what's on the thread. It's not like we can't go back and read it.

You're bitching about people hating on Bonner on a Bonner thread? I don't see what the problem is with that.


You never answered which exact shots in which exact game. You re-quoted your non-answer.

Sure I answered. That the answer lacks the specificity you like doesn't make it incorrect or invalid. Spurs lost 2 games by 3 points (Games 1 and 3).

Is your claim that making or missing 2 or 3 shots couldn't change a game or a series?

[ElNono]

I'm sure I would. He played a lot worse than many of us expected him to.

That said, I don't think Bonner played a whole lot worse than many of us expected him to, yet the hate threads appear to be worse.

:lol Threads hating on Bonner have been around for years.

They got even worse last summer after he was re-signed and after he choked one more time in the playoffs.

I can only rate Bonner for the role he's handed to him, and the responsibilities he's given. If I had to go with expectations, he delivered exactly what I thought.


I haven't seen any offseason training video threads of Parker or girl hair photoshop pics of him..... have you?

I'm sure mouse would be happy to oblige...

[ElNono]

FWIW, breakdown of Arthur vs Spurs (for the series)...


Regular season FG%: 49.7%

Series FG%: 55% (22-40)

w/Bonner in game: 52.9% (18-34)

w/o Bonner: 67% (4-6)

More granularity:



v Bonner/Blair: 62.5% (5-8)

v Bonner/Duncan: 60% (6-10)

v Bonner/Dice: 50% (1-2)

v Bonner/Splitter: 42.9% (6-14)

[ElNono]

Oh, and thanks to the person that provided that breakdown and wishes to remain anonymous... :toast

[Blake]

Could you please describe how much I hate Bonner? :lol
Please be specific.

enough to say that you have hated him for years and will continue to do so.

You specifically said so.


As I said before, much to my entertainment, you're still engaged in this conversation. That's why you definitely care. :lol

I am interested in your continued hate. I don't care about your claim that you are too lazy to back up.


Matt Bonner...

I thought so.


So, I never said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner". I didn't think so.

You said "he allowed a guy like Arthur to shoot 55% from the field."

How exactly did he allow it if he wasnt directly guarding him?


There it is.

I'm not saying he did choke. I am thinking he didn't choke, but am open to any hard evidence that he did.

You are flat out saying he choked.


Well, I provided some information to back up my choking claims. If you don't want to verify them, or counter them, because you don't care or otherwise, then that's entirely on you.

If you want to claim he choked while providing very little as to what defines a choke job, then that's on you.


And I never claimed I hate Bonner because he's mediocre. I did state he is mediocre, but not the reason for the hate. Not sure where you got that from. Quote?

I put the two together.

If that's not it, then why the hate? Is it the salary?



And I pointed out where the 37% came from.

fine. clearly point out where it's from again.



:lol

:lol:lol


I hate equally as much players that choke 15% for 8 games and show up only for 2.

k.

I guess we all have our own formulas for hate.



We know what's on the thread. It's not like we can't go back and read it.

You're bitching about people hating on Bonner on a Bonner thread? I don't see what the problem is with that.

Not bitching. Feel free to hate.

I'll lol.


Sure I answered. That the answer lacks the specificity you like doesn't make it incorrect or invalid. Spurs lost 2 games by 3 points (Games 1 and 3).

:lol It was my question. If I say you didn't answer it right, then you didn't.

If you don't want to answer any more specifically, just say so.


Is your claim that making or missing 2 or 3 shots couldn't change a game or a series?

No.

You are saying that Bonner three point shooting took a nosedive during the playoffs.

I'm saying two-three more makes, and Bonner is shooting good-fantastic from three.

I'm asking if you think there are two-three shots that Bonner missed that would have made a difference in this series.

[Blake]

Is there a statistic that proves that Bowen deserved his All-Defensive selections? Is there a stat that shows that any particular player is the MVP? Not everything needs a statistic to be accepted as true.

actually, yes, there are some stats to back up Bowen deserving defensive selections and stats to back up MVP candidates.

if you are hating Bonner simply on TV screen value, then that's even more of an lol.

[ElNono]

enough to say that you have hated him for years and will continue to do so.

Can you quantify 'enough' for me with any specificity? Thanks.


You said "he allowed a guy like Arthur to shoot 55% from the field." How exactly did he allow it if he wasnt directly guarding him?

He was directly responsible for guarding him for a good amount of the game. Arthur actually took 85% (34) of his shots when Bonner was in the game, and only 15% (6) when he was not.

So....I never said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner". I didn't think I did.


I'm not saying he did choke.

I'm not really denying he's choked

Make up your mind. :lol


If you want to claim he choked while providing very little as to what defines a choke job, then that's on you.

I think I provided more than you ever will. You don't have to like it or be satisfied with it though.


I put the two together.
If that's not it, then why the hate? Is it the salary?

Well, you put the two together wrong. I've said why I hate Bonner before.

Since your claim is that...

I am interested in your continued hate
...I'm sure you can look it up. Or you're not that much interested? :lol


I guess we all have our own formulas for hate.

We sure do.


Not bitching.

Sure you are. But keep on being interested in my hate so I can be further entertained. :lol


:lol It was my question. If I say you didn't answer it right, then you didn't.

:lol Who cares who made the question. The response was absolutely proper and right.


No.

So two or three made/missed shots can change a game or series. Makes sense. :lol

[Warlord23]

actually, yes, there are some stats to back up Bowen deserving defensive selections and stats to back up MVP candidates.

if you are hating Bonner simply on TV screen value, then that's even more of an lol.

All of those stats can be interpreted in different ways. Some years the scoring champion wins MVP, some years he doesn't. Some years the MVP plays on the team with the best record, some years he doesn't. There is no definitive statistical formula or method to decide on an MVP. You will not be able to statistically prove the long list of anomalies in MVP and other awards voting using statistics (e.g. why LeBron won MVP in 09 and 10, but not in 08; why Rose won it this year; why Nash won MVP over Shaq in 05 but didn't win over Dirk in 07). There is no statistic that can logically and consistently explain every single MVP award.

"TV screen value" = watching games, with an understanding of basketball. TV screen value is what decides voting for MVP and all other awards. If you don't think this is the best way to judge a player's value, you're essentially alone in this opinion against coaches, sports journalists etc who watch games and then vote on player value.

[TJastal]

Anyone who actually defends Bonner's worthless playoff performances should be automatically pinked for 1 month for each post.

If I counted right, that would be 2 years of pinkage for Blake (just in this thread alone).

[nkdlunch]

poor troll job by Blake IMO

[nkdlunch]

In PLAYOFF games where Bonner has gotten > 10 MPG:
18MPG
37%FG
31%3P
3.2 Rebounds
0.2 Steals
0.2 Blocks
5.1 Points

yes. Spursfans who hate Bonner have no reason to do so :rolleyes :rolleyes

this should close the thread.

Bonner gave us 5 and 3 careerwise in the playoffs when he is actually used. Bury this fuck at the end of the bench next season please.

[Blake]

Can you quantify 'enough' for me with any specificity? Thanks.

3 years of hate and counting. Youre welcome.


He was directly responsible for guarding him for a good amount of the game. Arthur actually took 85% (34) of his shots when Bonner was in the game, and only 15% (6) when he was not.

Thanks. I figured as much.


So....I never said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner". I didn't think I did.

Not in those words exactly if that helps.


Make up your mind. :lol

I'm still leaning towards him being innocent of not choking until proven otherwise.

If you want to give a firm definition of "choke" then we can really discuss it.


I think I provided more than you ever will. You don't have to like it or be satisfied with it though.

As long as you can justify the hate to yourself, that's all that matters.

lol.


Well, you put the two together wrong. I've said why I hate Bonner before.

Since your claim is that...

...I'm sure you can look it up. Or you're not that much interested? :lol

I'm more interested in watching the hate happen.

If you wanted to express why your hate exists now, it would have been fun to see, but it's not a pressing enough issue for me to spend time searching for it.

I more want to see Darth Vader in action.......not so much to see him as a little kid.


Sure you are.

I'm sure not. Keep on hating.


But keep on being interested in my hate so I can be further entertained. :lol

Will do. :tu



:lol Who cares who made the question. The response was absolutely proper and right.

I asked for the specific shots he missed. You never gave them.

If your non-answer is proper and right in your book, so be it. It's not proper and right in mine.


So two or three made/missed shots can change a game or series. Makes sense. :lol

Sure can.

Do you think that was the case with Bonner's missed shots this year?

[Blake]

this should close the thread.

Bonner gave us 5 and 3 careerwise in the playoffs when he is actually used. Bury this fuck at the end of the bench next season please.

So you think Pop will bury Bonner at the end of the bench next season?

Doubtful, imo.

[nkdlunch]

So you think Pop will bury Bonner at the end of the bench next season?


Bonner will be our 4th big off the bench. He most definitely won't be played as much as last year.

[Blake]

Bonner will be our 4th big off the bench. He most definitely won't be played as much as last year.

how many minutes a game do you think he will get?

[ElNono]

3 years of hate and counting. Youre welcome.

Can you quantify how much hate is 3 years of hate with any specificity? Thanks.


Not in those words exactly if that helps.

So you lied. That's what I thought.


If you want to give a firm definition of "choke" then we can really discuss it.

You already admitted he choked, under your definition. There's nothing else to discuss.


If you wanted to express why your hate exists now, it would have been fun to see, but it's not a pressing enough issue for me to spend time searching for it.

In other words, you don't really care enough about my hate. So you lied again.

Why do you lie Blake?

[nkdlunch]

how many minutes a game do you think he will get?

Splitter will take Dice's minutes. Bonner will play no more than 15MPG which is still 5-7MPG way too much.

[TJastal]

Bonner will be our 4th big off the bench. He most definitely won't be played as much as last year.

Hahahahaha... what a joke. Every year people say the same thing. Last year he was supposed to be "limited minutes" since Tiago was onboard. We all saw what happened there.

Now the team is minus McDyess with no cap room and very few tradeable assets left. Boner will get his 20+, guaranteed.

[ElNono]

Splitter will take Dice's minutes. Bonner will play no more than 15MPG which is still 5-7MPG way too much.

Completely disagree.

[Blake]

Can you quantify how much hate is 3 years of hate with any specificity? Thanks.

I don't even know what that question is asking.

I don't think you do either.


So you lied. That's what I thought.

No, I didn't quote you word for word.

you stated "he (Bonner) allowed a guy like Arthur to shoot 55% from the field."

I said you stated "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner".

Still looks the same to me. No difference between 'Bonner allowed' and 'against Bonner', imo.

It's telling that you would rather cry "liar" than clear up this simple matter.


You already admitted he choked, under your definition.

Liar.


Not by any definition of choke that I know.



In other words, you don't really care enough about my hate. So you lied again.

Why do you lie Blake?

I'm not lying.

I threw out a simple question thinking there might be a simple answer to your hate. I don't really care enough to go back and do any real research as to why.

I do care enough about you and everyone else's hate enough to keep reading this thread though.....:tu

I've already been called a troll twice so the hate is obviously very strong. It's very fascinating.

[Blake]

Splitter will take Dice's minutes. Bonner will play no more than 15MPG which is still 5-7MPG way too much.

So 15mpg is getting "buried" at the end of the bench?

That's not really getting "buried", imo.

[nkdlunch]

So 15mpg is getting "buried" at the end of the bench?

That's not really getting "buried", imo.

I didn't say he would genius. This is what I said:
"Bury this fuck at the end of the bench next season please."

more like a request. Not expecting it to happen cause Dice is gone and Duncan is older. But I do hope Blair + Splitter will be in front of him this season.

So my guess is:
Duncan 28
Splitter 24
Blair 22

that's 74 of 88 minutes. Giving Bonner the rest, 14. (hopefully)

[ElNono]

I don't even know what that question is asking.

You said I had "extreme hate" for Bonner. Since you seemingly know how much I hate Bonner, I'm asking you to quantify it for me. How much hate is "extreme hate"?


No, I didn't quote you word for word.

So, I never said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner".

Were you lying when you claimed I said that?
Yes or No.


Liar.

So now you're denying he choked? :lol

Which is it? Were you lying before or are you lying now?

Why do you lie Blake?

[GSH]

Anyone who actually defends Bonner's worthless playoff performances should be automatically pinked for 1 month for each post.

If I counted right, that would be 2 years of pinkage for Blake (just in this thread alone).

The irony of you calling for someone else to get pinked is just about too much to bear.

[Blake]

I didn't say he would genius. This is what I said:
"Bury this fuck at the end of the bench next season please."

more like a request. Not expecting it to happen cause Dice is gone and Duncan is older. But I do hope Blair + Splitter will be in front of him this season.

So my guess is:
Duncan 28
Splitter 24
Blair 22

that's 74 of 88 minutes. Giving Bonner the rest, 14. (hopefully)

so I can expect more hate and gnashing of teeth from you too.

lol.

[Mel_13]

The irony of you calling for someone else to get pinked is just about too much to bear.

:lol

Beat me to it.

[nkdlunch]

so I can expect more hate and gnashing of teeth from you too.

lol.

sure you can. As I will expect more defending the worst player on the team for the sake of trolling Spurstalk from you.

lol

[Blake]

sure you can. As I will expect more defending the worst player on the team for the sake of trolling Spurstalk from you.

lol

not so much. I'm not really defending Bonner as much as I am making fun of you severely hating on a guy getting 20 minutes a game on a 60+ win team.

lol lol

[nkdlunch]

not so much. I'm not really defending Bonner as much as I am making fun of you severely hating on a guy that gets 20 minutes a game in the playoffs and provides 5 and 3 in a first round beatdown


fify

[Blake]

Anyone who actually defends Bonner's worthless playoff performances should be automatically pinked for 1 month for each post.

If I counted right, that would be 2 years of pinkage for Blake (just in this thread alone).

anyone who wants to make worthless rules of posting should just pink themselves.

[Blake]

fify

such hate for someone with mediocre expectations producing mediocre results.

lol

[nkdlunch]

such hate for someone with mediocre expectations producing mediocre results.

lol

Spurs did not win 4 rings being happy with mediocre expectations

lol

[Blake]

You said I had "extreme hate" for Bonner. Since you seemingly know how much I hate Bonner, I'm asking you to quantify it for me. How much hate is "extreme hate"?

I have quantified it for you.

3 years of hate is extreme, imo.

Can't really quantify that any more for you unless you need the answer in smaller units of time.




So, I never said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner".

Were you lying when you claimed I said that?
Yes or No.

Purposely lying? no.

I paraphrased what you said. There's no moral conflict in doing so if the content of the phrase remains the same.

Was my paraphrasing off from what you technically said?

I don't think so.

Again, you crying liar instead of simply clarifying is extremely telling. Extremely.


So now you're denying he choked? :lol

Which is it? Were you lying before or are you lying now?

Why do you lie Blake?

By my definition, he did not choke.

Does that mean I am saying "he absolutely did not choke?" No. That's a rather stupid assumption on your part.

If you want to claim he did choke, great, then I won't rule it out. Explain your clear cut defintion of choking and we will discuss.

Hilarious coming from the same whiner griping that I lied about him saying "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner" when my paraphrasing of your actual quote, plain as day, had the same connotation.

lol the hate rages on

[Blake]

Spurs did not win 4 rings being happy with mediocre expectations

lol

the expectations for Bonner have always been rather mediocre. Obviously somewhere down the line you expected more.

lol lol

[nkdlunch]

the expectations for Bonner have always been rather mediocre.

link?


Obviously somewhere down the line you expected more.

lol lol

so did Pop and the Spurs.

lol lol

[ElNono]

Can't really quantify that

You can't tell me how much I hate Bonner. :lol
Caught lying again. :lol


Purposely lying? no.

So you indadvertedly lied? :lol


he did not choke.

Then please tell us what you REALLY meant when you said:

I'm not really denying he's choked

:lmao :lmao :lmao



You lie a lot Blake. Why do you need to lie?

[Blake]

You can't tell me how much I hate Bonner. :lol
Caught lying again. :lol

You already told me how much you hate Bonner.

Three years worth of hate is a rather large accumulation.

No lie.


So you indadvertedly lied? :lol

Paraphrasing you instead of quoting you directly does not equal a lie no matter how badly you wish it did.

Especially when the paraphrase is almost word for word simply rearranged.


Then please tell us what you REALLY meant when you said:

:lmao :lmao :lmao

the full sentence was


I'm not really denying he's choked as much as I'm saying that the instances where you say he's choked aren't choke jobs.

It means "I'm not on here flat out denying he has choked as I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to prove a choke job has happened."

It it makes you feel better, I will clear it up now: "I don't think he choked"



You lie a lot Blake. Why do you need to lie?

I'm not lying.

You however are seemingly obsessed with catching me in a lie instead of talking basketball. Why is this?

This is especially telling since you have already been caught in a cold, hard lie yourself in this thread not even a page ago.

[cheguevara]

Blaker trollin.

:lol ppl feeding the troll

[Scrub]

Yall say what u want but Bonner's stroke is money! Very classy!

[ElNono]

Three years worth of hate is a rather large accumulation.

Three years is how long, not how much.
Please elaborate how much hate I accumulated in 3 years.


I will clear it up now: "I don't think he choked"

Out of curiosity, when you said "I'm not really denying he's choked", were you lying or you just made a honest mistake?


Why is this?

I said I was in here for the entertainment. So I'll keep toying with you as usual and talking about whatever I want as long as I'm entertained.
I'm having a good laugh. Not sure this is really working for you, but I don't really care.


I'm not lying.

Really? :lol
Did I say "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner"?
Yes or No, Blake. Answer the question.

[Blake]

Three years is how long, not how much.
Please elaborate how much hate I accumulated in 3 years.

Three years worth of hate is a rather large accumulation of time to be hating.

You're more than welcome to share the volume amount of hate you have accumulated in that time frame.

I'm betting it's a rather extreme amount of volume to match the extreme amount of time.


Out of curiosity, when you said "I'm not really denying he's choked", were you lying or you just made a honest mistake?

Wasn't lying. I'm not denying you the opportunity to prove he choked.

I don't have any reason to backtrack on that. Miscommunication on my part perhaps.


I said I was in here for the entertainment. So I'll keep toying with you as usual and talking about whatever I want as long as I'm entertained.
I'm having a good laugh. Not sure this is really working for you, but I don't really care.

If your lying while while complaining about me lying works for you, by all means, keep entertaining yourself. :tu


Really? :lol
Did I say "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner"?
Yes or No, Blake. Answer the question.

Word for word? no.
The only mistake might have been me using quotes around the paraphrase.

you: "he (Bonner) allowed a guy like Arthur to shoot 55% from the field."

me paraphrasing you: "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner".

I'm still not seeing any difference in context. Instead of crying about it and causing self inflicted butthurt, you could explain why you feel I misquoted you.

I'd have no problems retracting and quoting you correctly.

No lie, liar.