NBA owners officially inform players there will be lockout

[Juggity]

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/30352500


The NBA owners have informed the players that there will be a lockout. Posted by Ben Golliver.

CBSSports.com's Ken Berger reports (http://twitter.com/#%21/KBerg_CBS/status/86511902804545537) from New York City that the NBA owners have informed representatives of the National Basketball Players Association that they will be instituting a lock out, as no deal was reached on a new collective bargaining agreement.

This decision was expected, given the lack of progress during recent negotiating sessions. The two sides had until midnight Thursday to negotiate a deal that would have avoided a lockout. The lockout will officially begin at 12:01 AM eastern time.

Berger also reports (http://twitter.com/#%21/KBerg_CBS/status/86512180765265920) that the Players Union "has no plans to decertify as of now and will continue to negotiate, according to a source."

Here are live updates as they come in from New York City regarding the labor negotiations.

Yahoo! Sports quotes (http://twitter.com/#%21/WojYahooNBA/statuses/86513520115585024) NBPA representative Matt Bonner (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/players/playerpage/400536): "We tried to avoid a lockout. Unfortunately we could not reach a deal."

CNBC.com reports (http://twitter.com/#%21/darrenrovell/statuses/86514492149727233) that Billy Hunter, the Executive Director of the NBPA, said: "Their position was that we're too far away... the gap is too great." The site also quoted (http://twitter.com/#%21/darrenrovell/statuses/86515934512168962) Hunter on the decision not to decertify the union: "I just don't think it's necessary."

The New York Post reports (http://twitter.com/#%21/NYPost_Berman/statuses/86515841537024000) that Hunter expects the two sides to meet "in two weeks" to continue their negotiations. The paper also notes that the Players Association has requested "documentation" from the owners.

This post will continue to update throughout the day as news breaks.


Quote from Matt Bonner... thus spurs related

[cheguevara]

Bonner with the fails

[tdunk21]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182017

[spursfan09]

Bonner!! Can't you ever come through? :ihit

[smrattler]

Damn Bonner. It's always his fault. Rasho was probably another player spokesman. Fails!

[dbestpro]

If it is true that teams collectively lost 300 mil, then this loss occurred most likely by 60-70% of the teams. That means somewhere around 20 teams could have lost 300 mil or on average 15 mil per team. If this is the case you can expect that the owners will not cave anywhere above 55 mil and that includes additional revenue sharing. Teams will not fold in mass as the cost to buy out those teams is more than the teams that are profitable can afford.

Also, you can expect existing contracts will take a hit in value. Something like 20-30% with provisions for teams that remain above the hard cap to reduce salary or allow players to walk.

Now of course no one expects players to take such a deal by today's standards, which means that I would be surprised if there is a season next year and believe it will roll into the 2012-2013 season before players feel it enough to capitulate.

Better be happy with college ball for next year.

[Spurtacus]

With the possibility of no NBA and NFL this fall the 2012 apocalypse may as well be starting now.

[TDMVPDPOY]

with or without a lockout, the only winners are the owners, since they can make income from other stuff outside basketball

lol nba players..

[JR3]

shocker

[dbestpro]

with or without a lockout, the only winners are the owners, since they can make income from other stuff outside basketball

lol nba players..

In fact the owners balance sheets are better off with a lockout. It's a matter of cutting loses.

[Bruno]

A great article form Larry coon on the money loss claims by the owners:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=coon_larry&page=NBAFinancials-110630

[dbestpro]

Just as interest earned is relevant to income it is equally important to revenues lost that did not have the ability to earn at least simple interest and has to be factored into any equation.

[Bruno]

Writer Ken Berger is siding with the players:
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/15282280/congratulations-nba-owners-you-got-what-you-wanted

[CosmicCowboy]

If the league gets their way the value of the franchises will skyrocket overnight.

[Fernando TD21]

David Stern and Adam Silver Press Conference about Lockout
M-riwLGPVRA

[GSH]

Writer Ken Berger is siding with the players:
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/15282280/congratulations-nba-owners-you-got-what-you-wanted

Really? Did he?

"we get a respite from the lies and distortions both sides have been telling to explain their inexcusable positions."

"The players? They're to blame, too, clinging foolishly to a system that gives them wealth and power in copious amounts -- amounts that can't be sustained in this post-2008 world."

"But also, how much time has been wasted in these negotiations [gsh: by the players' union] talking about meaningless ploys like adding a second mid-level exception and restoring the age limit to 18? How were those measures going to do anything but make the product worse?"
-------------------

You must be part of a union, Bruno. You see everything totally one-sided. This guy writes an article with some balance, and you claim he sided with the players' union. You keep talking about the $45M hard cap, when you KNOW the owners have offered far more than that. Now that there is a lockout, the negotiations will start from scratch, and the owners have just gone back to their original position to begin Round 2. Nothing too hard to understand.

The biggest accusation against the owners in the artlcle was that they wanted a lockout all along. And he's right. They decided that the union wasn't going to negotiate seriously until they were forced to, so they pushed until they got them in that position. And they were right, too. The union wasn't about to negotiate seriously until the lockout happened. Sometimes both sides are in the wrong.

[GSH]

A great article form Larry coon on the money loss claims by the owners:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=coon_larry&page=NBAFinancials-110630

Larry Coon is VERY knowledgable. He's not an accountant. The only problem with the article is that it relies on Billy Hunter's numbers. And Billy Hunter is totally full of shit. The difference is, the owners are using accounting numbers that are decided by the IRS, and by the AICPA. Billy Hunter is picking and choosing numbers, to be deliberately deceitful.

I'll be happy to go into a full-length accounting explanation of why Billy Hunter is a lying sack of shit. The short version is, he lumps ALL of the teams' depreciation and amortization together, and treats it like it ALL should not count as a "real" expense. That's so stupid, a freshman accounting student would know better.

Hunter is a lying, deceitful sack of shit. The owners aren't much better, but they are still not as bad as the union about absolute distortion. The problem is, people are programmed to hate the billionaires, and they don't have enough business/accounting knowledge to call out the union for their bullshit. And they know it.

A lot of that depreciation is for tangible assets that the teams buy (like computers, team jets, etc.) Unless the players want to go back to flying commercial, it is a legitimate expense that the owners pay for. They can't expense an airplane in one year - they have to depreciate it over many years. The money still came out of their pockets. If the players want to buy their own team jets, out of their salaries, I'm sure the owners would be glad to stop taking the depreciation expense. You can't have things both fucking ways!!!


Some people need to get off the union dick, and be objective adults. Both sides are greedy, and both sides are full of it. But this isn't about power to the people, and down with the corporate masters. That's baby food.



Edit: BTW - any accountants can check my math. The article, and Billy Hunter, claims that the nets took $40M+ worth of amortization in a single year, and blames it on the $200M goodwill that the owners booked when they bought the Nets. That would be 5-year amortization. ($200M/5 = $40M) Does anyone get to amortize goodwill over just 5 years? No. And that would mean that the amortization expense would be used up in just 5 years, wouldn't it? And, of course, that didn't happen. That's proof that what Hunter did was lump all of the team's amortization and depreciation together. Otherwise, the numbers wouldn't even be close.

[Dex]

To me, it's pretty simple. Sure, the players don't deserve to take a pay cut, and I wouldn't expect them to want to. They are just trying to get what they feel is rightfully theirs (because of the way the current system has run amok), and most of us in their position would do the same. The fact of the matter is, the owners cannot continue to afford these kind of checks. Like it or not, these guys are simply getting overpaid.

The problem is that owners aren't into basketball for a hobby. Sure, they may enjoy it, but ultimately, they want to make a profit, and hardly any are doing so. If they continue at this rate, nobody is going to want to own a basketball team in 10 years because it's just a giant money bucket with a gaping hole at the bottom.

The League doesn't have a miracle answer to start raking in cash. They can't give the players AND the owners the money they want. Even in one of the highest rated seasons in a decade, most teams still struggled to turn a profit. Something has to give.

Even if you don't chop down current contracts (which would admittedly be unfair), there needs to be some sort of progression into a lower cap, smaller salaries, etc...so that players aren't losing money that's already on their table, but the League can still develop a financial structure that won't collapse under its own weight. Perhaps like a five-year plan to gradually lower the cap and contract structures or something.

If the players are really that upset about taking a pay cut, then I bet there are gyms across America just filled with guys who would love to take that lowered salary off their hands.

[GSH]

If the players are really that upset about taking a pay cut, then I bet there are gyms across America just filled with guys who would love to take that lowered salary off their hands.


In all fairness, Dex, the guys in the NBA are incredibly elite athletes. And they are being paid to be entertainers as much as for playing a sport. If we, the fans, are willing to pay to watch them, they deserved to get their fair share of the money. Maybe nobody is really "worth" that much money per year. But since we are paying the money to see them, the game must be worth the money. And they are the biggest part of the game. The problem is that they (and some fans) don't understand the value that the league has brought, and continue to bring.

I used to have employees who thought they would go out on their own, and get all the money for themselves. Over the years, not one of them made it on his/her own. The business side is never as easy as it looks.

A lot of players need to remember that, if not for small market owners, their only chance of getting a job would be in Europe. And with a lot of extra talent going into that market, the Euro teams wouldn't have to pay as big of salaries either.

[Dex]

In all fairness, Dex, the guys in the NBA are incredibly elite athletes. And they are being paid to be entertainers as much as for playing a sport. If we, the fans, are willing to pay to watch them, they deserved to get their fair share of the money. Maybe nobody is really "worth" that much money per year. But since we are paying the money to see them, the game must be worth the money. And they are the biggest part of the game. The problem is that they (and some fans) don't understand the value that the league has brought, and continue to bring.

I used to have employees who thought they would go out on their own, and get all the money for themselves. Over the years, not one of them made it on his/her own. The business side is never as easy as it looks.

A lot of players need to remember that, if not for small market owners, their only chance of getting a job would be in Europe. And with a lot of extra talent going into that market, the Euro teams wouldn't have to pay as big of salaries either.

I agree that the players deserve to be well paid. I just don't know if they need to be this well paid. Nearly every team is loaded with bloated contracts, because that is what it has taken to compete with other teams. If one team won't shell out, another one surely will. That's why you have a multitude of guys like Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, or any guy over 6'11 who can dribble, who are making bank by handcuffing their teams and owners.

Are they wrong for doing it? No. They are just following the rules in place. That's why the rules need to be changed.

The fact still remains: the owners deserve a profit. Otherwise, there is no reason to be an owner. Without owners, the League goes under. (And keep in mind, we currently have one team owned by the NBA)

Where does that money come from? They either start inflating the price of already over-priced tickets and merchandise, or they reduce the amount of money these guys get for, ultimately, playing a game (and yes, being entertaining while they do it).

I'm not saying the talent-level or the entertainment-level wouldn't dip if they went the way of The Replacements...but at least there would be a season. And more importantly, it would show the current "star" players that maybe their checkbook doesn't need to be as big as they think it does.

[Crookshanks]

I hate the fact that there might not be an NBA season come fall, but I have a real hard time feeling any sympathy for these over-paid athletes. The economy is in bad shape and there are millions of people out of work and losing their homes. I can't feel sorry for a guy who earns millions and millions of dollars for playing 82 + GAMES a year. A business cannot continue to lose money and stay in business - and that's what the NBA is - a business. These players are just going to have to lower their standards and live more like the fans who watch them!

[Russ]

Bonner!! Can't you ever come through? :ihit

My money is on the owners now.

Any time Bonner enters the fray, the other side is infused with confidence.

[pancakechef]

I agree that the players deserve to be well paid. I just don't know if they need to be this well paid. Nearly every team is loaded with bloated contracts, because that is what it has taken to compete with other teams. If one team won't shell out, another one surely will. That's why you have a multitude of guys like Gilbert Arenas, Vince Carter, or any guy over 6'11 who can dribble, who are making bank by handcuffing their teams and owners.

Are they wrong for doing it? No. They are just following the rules in place. That's why the rules need to be changed.

The fact still remains: the owners deserve a profit. Otherwise, there is no reason to be an owner. Without owners, the League goes under. (And keep in mind, we currently have one team owned by the NBA)

Where does that money come from? They either start inflating the price of already over-priced tickets and merchandise, or they reduce the amount of money these guys get for, ultimately, playing a game (and yes, being entertaining while they do it).

I'm not saying the talent-level or the entertainment-level wouldn't dip if they went the way of The Replacements...but at least there would be a season. And more importantly, it would show the current "star" players that maybe their checkbook doesn't need to be as big as they think it does.

Thats a good post. I agree. Players need to accept the fact that life would go on without the NBA. These guys make money hand over fist when in reality they dont contribute that much to society (unless of course they give to charity). If players werent mentally retarded and lived within their means, and INVESTED their money this wouldnt be an issue.

Begging for more money when you make millions simply means you are too stupid to use basic mathematics.

Additionally new rules should be made paying players a base with performance incentives (both individual and team) so that players arent ripping off owners and owners arent ripping off players. If said payment options were put in place their wouldnt be any more crying. The players would be held directly accountable.