Monroe: Splitter figures to start

[TJastal]

Mr Jastal, I have no idea why you are so high on Splitter - perhaps the guy owes you money, perhaps you're dating his sister, whatever...

Some of what you say is correct - he does have decent mobility and I agree that he should be just as effective if not MORE effective than a TD/Blair frontline.

However, no one, including you, should be of the mindset that Splitter is a PF that can be relied upon to bring the Spurs the title. His usefulness, if used appropriately, should be as the C of the future along side some other player playing PF. THAT PF isn't on the roster yet. So, as much as I actually appreciate some of your comments from time to time (and I realize I'm in the minority about that), the obsession to try and talk/blog/chat Splitter into something he's not is getting quite old. I know that this posting will probably result in a few immature personal attempts at insult about me personnally, but that won't help Splitter's cause either.

The guy is a Center. He walks like a center, acts like a center, rebounds like a center (marginally) and moves like a center. He is not and probably never will be a KG, TD, P Gasol, Aldridge or Stoudamire.

Let's hope that Pop and the FO can get him some legitimate and youthful help at the PF position soon.

If the "shooting guard" Matt Bonner can play "power forward" then so can Tiago. Pretty funny that you think your little labels mean anything. My theory is simple and doesn't require neat little PF/C labels. Which is, "if it works, who cares?".

One thing became painfully evident in the grizzly series... Tim Duncan needs size in the worst way next to him. Getting a better player than Tiago either by trade or free agency is probably an unlikely crapshoot with what the spurs have to work with (Dice's expiring and maybe Anderson assuming his option can even be picked up yet).

There was some rumours about the spurs being interested in Tyrus Thomas last year, and the combination of Dice + Anderson would be enough to get him actually. Spurs could use a little nasty in their frontline with McDyess leaving.

YmBj4fr3F6Q

[spurs10]

One thing we all seem to agree on is Tiago needs to get some consistent pt this season (should there be one). Tim does need some size around him, no doubt, and Tiago is our only option right now. I'm still hopeful someone else is coming on board at the 4 and very hopeful that Leonard's energy and defense at SF will be a spark to the team. Tyrus Thomas or Varejao, perhaps?

[spurs10]

Just watched the clip TJ posted on Thomas...ouch!

[mountainballer]

watching the clip and especially his reaction makes me want to acquire Okafor. great guy. and I would say he is the tough one in this scene.

Edit: TT being on the block is very unrealistic IMO. and Dice+Anderson as an offer the Bobcats would accept is even more.
Bobcats liked what TT delivered after the acquired him at deadline 2010 and they gave him a long term extension. he didn't disappoint, outside his foul troubles he played his best season.
however, if he was, why would the Bobcats want a player, who is in many ways a copy of their 2009 pick, who finally started to show a very nice development in the 2nd half of last season. (they would rather ask for Neal, not that this was enough)

[ChumpDumper]

Is TJ actually advocating Tyrus Thomas with that brainless flagrant foul?

[TJastal]

watching the clip and especially his reaction makes me want to acquire Okafor. great guy. and I would say he is the tough one in this scene.

Edit: TT being on the block is very unrealistic IMO. and Dice+Anderson as an offer the Bobcats would accept is even more.
Bobcats liked what TT delivered after the acquired him at deadline 2010 and they gave him a long term extension. he didn't disappoint, outside his foul troubles he played his best season.
however, if he was, why would the Bobcats want a player, who is in many ways a copy of their 2009 pick, who finally started to show a very nice development in the 2nd half of last season. (they would rather ask for Neal, not that this was enough)

Maybe you just haven't noticed, but Jordan has been in "scrap it and start over mode" for the past year or so. From Gerald Wallace, Tyson Chandler, Nazr Mohammed, Raymond Felton, & now Stephen Jackson, he has totally ushered on what was once a playoff threat and defensive beast of a team (apparently to save $$$) I'm not sure why you'd think Tyrus Thomas wouldn't be next on his hit list, seeing as his contract runs for the next 4 years @ 8-9m per, easily tops on the team now.

As for Anderson, why couldn't he be Henderson's back up? Unless you think Garret Temple is going to do that job. Or as I used to call him, the jack of all trades, master of none. :lol

[TJastal]

Is TJ actually advocating Tyrus Thomas with that brainless flagrant foul?

I don't particularily like those kinds of fouls, but if they help clear the lane for Timmy and keep assholes like Bynum from cheap shotting Splitter I'll live with it.

TD/TT/TS/DB/MB would be a decent big rotation.

[EricD]

I don't particularily like those kinds of fouls, but if they help clear the lane for Timmy and keep assholes like Bynum from cheap shotting Splitter I'll live with it.

TD/TT/TS/DB/MB would be a decent big rotation.

You need to get a life.

Really. :lol

[mountainballer]

Maybe you just haven't noticed, but Jordan has been in "scrap it and start over mode" for the past year or so. From Gerald Wallace, Tyson Chandler, Nazr Mohammed, Raymond Felton, & now Stephen Jackson, he has totally ushered on what was once a playoff threat and defensive beast of a team (apparently to save $$$) I'm not sure why you'd think Tyrus Thomas wouldn't be next on his hit list, seeing as his contract runs for the next 4 years @ 8-9m per, easily tops on the team now.


oh I have noticed. that's why I can't see the pure dump and restart mode, when trading Chandler and not re sign Felton happens at the same moment when they handed TT the big contract and when trading Jackson brought back a more expensive contract in the person of Maggette.
if all those moves were smart is a different discussion, some move were pure salary dumps (like Chandler), but it's not an evidence that TT is the next, just because you want to see him with the Spurs.

[007nites]

If Splitter starts he'll easily be a 8 & 6 guy in around 25 MPG, that also does a lot of stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

I can see Splitter being a 10 and 10 guy with 2 blocks if he starts with minimum 29 mins.

[DrSteffo]

Splitter will never be an elite NBA rebounder but an average one. Agree with Hooks, about 8 & 6 in 25 min. (which is ok) but if they would use more PnR the points could go up. He clearly needs a good pg to be effective. He will draw fouls, move to an open spot, be a good passer, work hard and generally help the team but will never be a dominant player on O or D. He has no range on his shot and I doubt this will change. I think he could be an average starting C and an above average backup C.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

If the "shooting guard" Matt Bonner can play "power forward" then so can Tiago. Pretty funny that you think your little labels mean anything. My theory is simple and doesn't require neat little PF/C labels. Which is, "if it works, who cares?".

One thing became painfully evident in the grizzly series... Tim Duncan needs size in the worst way next to him. Getting a better player than Tiago either by trade or free agency is probably an unlikely crapshoot with what the spurs have to work with (Dice's expiring and maybe Anderson assuming his option can even be picked up yet).

There was some rumours about the spurs being interested in Tyrus Thomas last year, and the combination of Dice + Anderson would be enough to get him actually. Spurs could use a little nasty in their frontline with McDyess leaving.

YmBj4fr3F6Q

I say KEEP Splitter as the center. Acquire a PF somewhere else w/ the tradeable assets on the team right now. Those assets TP, Blair and quite possibly one of the other SGs (Neal or Anderson).

Next year, TD will be retired and Splitter will own duties in the lane. I think he'll do well enough to hold down the starting 5 spot. But, as so many other have already posted, 5s aren't as important as good 4s.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't particularily like those kinds of fouls, but if they help clear the lane for Timmy and keep assholes like Bynum from cheap shotting Splitter I'll live with it.So you're advocating it.

[BRs.Ganso]

Guys, Splitter can shot...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM1UqXZj924

look this video (full screen)

he made 2 jump shots (6:12) and (9:00)

but he need to training this a lot, i think he have potential to be a consistent mid-range shooter

we have a lot of examples in NBA, players who develop a shoot since came to NBA... Oberto, Noah and others.

sorry the english, i need to leave now and i typed fast.

[Chomag]

I can see Splitter being a 10 and 10 guy with 2 blocks if he starts with minimum 29 mins.

Agreed here. I think this is pretty much Splitter's ceiling for the NBA, not bad at all to have for a roll player at all, but not quite good enough to be a key player on a team.

If he could just get some decent and consistent playing time (should have last season) he would be a tremendous help for TD, and to the team, but him getting that kind of playing time still remains to be seen.

[Fireball]

Guys, Splitter can shot...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM1UqXZj924

look this video (full screen)

he made 2 jump shots (6:12) and (9:00)

but he need to training this a lot, i think he have potential to be a consistent mid-range shooter

Splitter really played well in that 4th quarter ... nice comeback against a good Greece team (although it was "only" pre-olympics. Hopefully Chip England can bring Tiagos jumper back in addition to consistent free throw shooting.

[BRs.Ganso]

Splitter really played well in that 4th quarter ... nice comeback against a good Greece team (although it was "only" pre-olympics. Hopefully Chip England can bring Tiagos jumper back in addition to consistent free throw shooting.

that video was in 2006 FIBA World Championship in Japan

[Lukor]

tk_mwitEuGY

[TJastal]

tk_mwitEuGY

Compelling evidence of of how cramps and stiffness tend to manifest themselves into the body when you sit on a hard bench all game long and only see the final minute of action of a game.

2010 was essentially a wasted year for Tiago. Funny how it was so important to get him signed for this season, Holt even mortgaged the future by resigning RJ to that ludicrous deal just so the we'd have enough $$ left over to make sure Splitter could be wearing the silver & black proudly.

It was truly moments like these that made it all worthwhile.

[TJastal]

So you're advocating it.

Not so much advocating as condoning.

[ChumpDumper]

Compelling evidence of of how cramps and stiffness tend to manifest themselves into the body when you sit on a hard bench all game long and only see the final minute of action of a game. He played over 14 minutes that game..

You're such an idiot.

[EricD]

He played over 14 minutes that game..

You're such an idiot.

An idiot who spends 24 hours everyday on Spurstalk. :lol

[TD 21]

I say KEEP Splitter as the center. Acquire a PF somewhere else w/ the tradeable assets on the team right now. Those assets TP, Blair and quite possibly one of the other SGs (Neal or Anderson).

Next year, TD will be retired and Splitter will own duties in the lane. I think he'll do well enough to hold down the starting 5 spot. But, as so many other have already posted, 5s aren't as important as good 4s.

Obviously, that's ideal. But it's difficult to find a starting PF for under $5 million, particularly one who's not a massive liability at mid range shooting, defense or rebounding.

The problem is, the Spurs already have a lot of committed money next season. $74,426,140, to be exact. That doesn't factor in McDyess -- if he's not traded -- being waived, or one of Butler or Green potentially being waived. But it also doesn't account for Leonard's and Joseph's contracts and they'd still need a fifth big and presumably another PG.

All this is to say, they probably only acquire a starting PF if they're able to get rid of Jefferson. Basically, have the PF take Jefferson's salary slot, as the fourth highest paid player on the team.

But let's face it, there's probably at least a 50% chance of Jefferson not being traded. And if he's not and they're unable to afford a starting PF, then Splitter is clearly the best in house option.

That's the main reason why it's crucial they trade Jefferson, even if it means taking back a contract that they don't want (such as Kleiza).

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Obviously, that's ideal. But it's difficult to find a starting PF for under $5 million, particularly one who's not a massive liability at mid range shooting, defense or rebounding.

The problem is, the Spurs already have a lot of committed money next season. $74,426,140, to be exact. That doesn't factor in McDyess -- if he's not traded -- being waived, or one of Butler or Green potentially being waived. But it also doesn't account for Leonard's and Joseph's contracts and they'd still need a fifth big and presumably another PG.

All this is to say, they probably only acquire a starting PF if they're able to get rid of Jefferson. Basically, have the PF take Jefferson's salary slot, as the fourth highest paid player on the team.

But let's face it, there's probably at least a 50% chance of Jefferson not being traded. And if he's not and they're unable to afford a starting PF, then Splitter is clearly the best in house option.

That's the main reason why it's crucial they trade Jefferson, even if it means taking back a contract that they don't want (such as Kleiza).

The Spurs WON'T find a PF for $5 million that's worth a salt - and they know that.

The Spurs will continue to find ways to trade RJ, that's for sure. Their 2nd best option is to just wait until after this next season, whenever it is, when TD's contract is up and he retires. THEN, the Spurs can start rebuilding - next season will be a "tribute" season to the old guys.

That's why I say, put TD and Splitter in together and see what they can do...

[spurs10]

Trading RJ is the best solution, but a 50% chance of that happening is probably being generous. I keep being hopeful about Tim and Tiago starting together. I have no expectations of Tiago being a true power forward, but I think he can probably learn to defend the 4 pretty well. Tim can still score and probably needs Tiago's speed and size defensively. Hope we get to find out...

[ChuckD]

I can see Splitter being a 10 and 10 guy with 2 blocks if he starts with minimum 29 mins.

Splitter will never average 10 boards. Only nine guys in the NBA did last year. He's just not aggressive enough. And how do you figure he's ever going to block 2 shots when he attacks no one's shot? He prefers to wait and try for a charge, even on guards and wings.

[Sofaking]

Splitter will never average 10 boards. Only nine guys in the NBA did last year. He's just not aggressive enough. And how do you figure he's ever going to block 2 shots when he attacks no one's shot? He prefers to wait and try for a charge, even on guards and wings.

Splitter in my honest opinion will never be better than Rasho when he was here. At best, I see him as a 9pts, 7 rbs .8blks player in this league. He's simply not strong enough to handle the bigger 5's and not fast enough to keep up with the atlethic 4's. He's also 27 yrs old....not many ppl come over at that age and expect to dominate.

A lot of Spurs fans views him as gold but outside of spurstalk, everybody views him as a bum. They want the white hype, they are desperately seeking another white player to reign. I have no problems with that, but when he makes as much Bone head plays as Blair makes and it gets swept under a rug, that's where problems comes in.

How the fuck you expect him to average 10rbs when its well known that that's not his strong suite? His defense is overrated as well. :nope

There's a reason he was glued to the bench. Spurs aint winning no :lobt2: with Splitter in the lineup

[Cane]

Anderson Varejao's best averages are something like 9.7 pts, 9 boards, and 1 block per game and that was this past LeBron-less season for the Cavs.

I think Splitter can rival that although his game is much more finesse based. Both players are better at positional defense like taking charges than blocking shots.

Spurs still need a quality PF/C kind of player though and they're still screwed against giants like Marc Gasol.

[cantthinkofanything]

They want the white hype, they are desperately seeking another white player to reign.

I don't think Spurs fans give a shit about what color he is at this point. He could be black with a big afro, gold teeth, sagging his pants with tats of MLK and 50 Cent. If he can make ANY contribution to the team, then I'm happy.

[BRs.Ganso]

Anderson Varejao's best averages are something like 9.7 pts, 9 boards, and 1 block per game and that was this past LeBron-less season for the Cavs.

I think Splitter can rival that although his game is much more finesse based. Both players are better at positional defense like taking charges than blocking shots.

Spurs still need a quality PF/C kind of player though and they're still screwed against giants like Marc Gasol.

I see Tiago as a 12 points and 7 rebounds player, with more than 25 minutes.

i told this last year and i keep my opinion

he's an better player than Varejao (9 and 9 this season) and worst than Nene, but his offensive game is better than the other 2 big brazilians, Nene can score because he is very athletic.

[Sofaking]

I don't think Spurs fans give a shit about what color he is at this point. He could be black with a big afro, gold teeth, sagging his pants with tats of MLK and 50 Cent. If he can make ANY contribution to the team, then I'm happy.

I hear a lot of racial undertones in posts made about certain spurs players. Blair gets called all kind of names. I'm not saying its wrong if you'd like more racial diversity to the game, but when average players like Splitter are treated like the 2nd coming, I wonder

[rascal]

Splitter in my honest opinion will never be better than Rasho when he was here. At best, I see him as a 9pts, 7 rbs .8blks player in this league. He's simply not strong enough to handle the bigger 5's and not fast enough to keep up with the atlethic 4's. He's also 27 yrs old....not many ppl come over at that age and expect to dominate.

A lot of Spurs fans views him as gold but outside of spurstalk, everybody views him as a bum. They want the white hype, they are desperately seeking another white player to reign. I have no problems with that, but when he makes as much Bone head plays as Blair makes and it gets swept under a rug, that's where problems comes in.

How the fuck you expect him to average 10rbs when its well known that that's not his strong suite? His defense is overrated as well. :nope

There's a reason he was glued to the bench. Spurs aint winning no :lobt2: with Splitter in the lineup

Great post. Splitter was way over hype on this board. He had a bust of a rookie year. He couldn't get off the bench because he just didn't show enough to Pop to warrant any more minutes.

[rascal]

I don't think Spurs fans give a shit about what color he is at this point. He could be black with a big afro, gold teeth, sagging his pants with tats of MLK and 50 Cent. If he can make ANY contribution to the team, then I'm happy.

I care. Most white bigs C/PF are unathletic and soft. Can you name more than five in the entire league that aren't.

[The Truth #6]

I can't believe people still use Pop's distribution of minutes as the end all/be all for a player's talent. Bonner plays. Doesn anyone in their right mind think he's that talented? Of course not. It's hard for fans not to hype a player because anyone seems better then Matt Bonner.

[MaNu4Tres]

This is from a thread back in February. And I still stand by it. Sorry rascal, but I do not agree with your assessment.


In 12 games of seeing 16 minutes or more this season, Splitter is averaging 9.7 points and 5.4 rebounds in 21.3 mpg.

In 4 games of seeing 24 minutes or more this season, Splitter is averaging 14.3 points and 6.5 rebounds in 25.8 mpg.

In 17 games of seeing 8 minutes or less this season, Splitter is averaging 1 point and .8 rebounds in 4.8 mpg. (Not including his 11 DNP's this season)

The guy simply needs time.

I don't understand how critical some of you all have been, especially after the games where he gets garbage minutes at best. It's not fair and it's stupid to analyze a players performance based on such very limited outings.


Unfortunately, it just so happened Splitter was set back due to injury out of the gate this year, where he missed the entire training camp. And while trying to get back in the mix of things, his main competition for minutes (Bonner and Blair) progressively improved their production and have played their best ball of their careers the past several months.

All in all, the reason for lack of minutes is not because he sucks. It's because his competition for minutes has performed damn well and on top of that, they had already earned the minutes by gaining Pop's trust even before Splitter signed with the Spurs. Add these facts to the fact that Splitter missed the entire training camp and you get Splitter fighting a hard uphill battle for minutes so far this season.

I repeat-- the guy does not suck-- He just needs the time. /rant

[rascal]

This is from a thread back in February. And I still stand by it. Sorry rascal, but I do not agree with your assessment.

Your extrapolating Splitter's minutes not considering his limited minutes were against weak garbage time play. If he had to go up against frontline starters expect numbers to come down in every category across the board.

[MaNu4Tres]

Your extrapolating Splitter's minutes not considering his limited minutes were against weak garbage time play. If he had to go up against frontline starters expect numbers to come down in every category across the board.

What about the other garbage I posted, regarding why Splitter didn't get minutes?

Any expertise from the great rascal on that issue?

[rascal]

What about the other garbage I posted, regarding why Splitter didn't get minutes?

Any expertise from the great rascal on that issue?

I have already answered that but you don't want to accept it.

[rascal]

Splitter is really a backup quality big. The spurs could get away with him as a stater if Duncan was in his prime. Not the case anymore.

[MaNu4Tres]

Your extrapolating Splitter's minutes not considering his limited minutes were against weak garbage time play. If he had to go up against frontline starters expect numbers to come down in every category across the board.

That is why I included the games in the statistics where Splitter got 24 plus minutes (the games Splitter played against quality starters and quality 2/3rd rotational bigs).

The games where he played garbage minutes (against end of the bench type players; 8 minutes or less) is also included in the statistics.

You really don't have a clue though, it's okay.

[rascal]

That is why I included the games in the statistics where Splitter got 24 plus minutes (the games Splitter played against quality starters and quality 2/3rd rotational bigs).

The games where he played garbage minutes (against end of the bench type players; 8 minutes or less) is also included in the statistics.

You really don't have a clue though, it's okay.

Starters get more than 24 minutes a game. Who were the teams he got the 24 minutes a game against? Sac, Toronto and Cleveland?

Also that sample size was so small (4 games) you can't make any conclusions from it.

I am making conclusions from what I saw on the floor and the reluctance of Pop to put him in when it was clear the Spurs needed help on the frontline.

You along with most of Spur nation will be disappointed with Splitter if you are expecting anything more than a backup quality big.

[MaNu4Tres]

From February:


He is nothing more than a deep end of bench role player.

Yes he is more. With more time next year, you will see that. Will he be an All-Star? No. Is he a starting caliber big in this league? We will find out soon enough.

One thing I know for sure though, he is definitely more than the "deep end of the bench type player" you described back in February.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

From February:



Yes he is more. With more time next year, you will see that. Will he be an All-Star? No. Is he a starting caliber big in this league? We will find out soon enough.

One thing I know for sure though, he is definitely more than the "deep end of the bench type player" you described back in February.

It seems obvious from the back and forth here that nobody can realistically say what Splitter is or is not. There's just not a big enough sample size...

Which is the reason for the thread - Splitter needs to start so we (and Pop) can see what he is. I think he's a borderline starting C w/ some PF skills (in a pinch).

[mountainballer]

it's totally irrelevant whether he starts or not. he should and IMO will be a major part of the big rotation, likely playing 25-28 MPG. Spurs desperately need a type of big he won't ever be anyhow, no matter where you play him and when you play him.

[Fireball]

Your extrapolating Splitter's minutes not considering his limited minutes were against weak garbage time play. If he had to go up against frontline starters expect numbers to come down in every category across the board.

Garbage minutes also mean that Splitter played with the end of the Spurs bench. Of course it would have been more difficult for him to play against starters of the opponent, but then his production might benefit from playing with Manu instead of Quinn. Stats do not tell the whole story ...

[TD 21]

It seems obvious from the back and forth here that nobody can realistically say what Splitter is or is not. There's just not a big enough sample size...

Which is the reason for the thread - Splitter needs to start so we (and Pop) can see what he is. I think he's a borderline starting C w/ some PF skills (in a pinch).

Actually, it's very easy to project what Splitter can be and I'm not talking three years down the road either. He had a 16.0 PER last season, was a good face up/pick-and-roll defender and his rebounding consistently improved as the season wore on. Given that, his length and mobility, as well as his lack of range and touch, it's clear he's in the mold of Noah/Bedrins/Varejao. All are starters and second bigs, which is exactly what Splitter will be.

Like those players, Splitter would be best next to a scoring PF and one with enough strength to occasionally cross-match defensively. A young Duncan would have been perfect. Unfortunately, at this point in his career, Duncan is no longer a PF; thus the Spurs conundrum. There's a very good chance they won't be able to acquire a big better than Splitter, yet if they trade for a PF, that PF will more than likely start over Splitter. That's the main problem with this team; the pieces just don't fit all that great together, which makes it difficult for them to play their best five together.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Actually, it's very easy to project what Splitter can be and I'm not talking three years down the road either. He had a 16.0 PER last season, was a good face up/pick-and-roll defender and his rebounding consistently improved as the season wore on. Given that, his length and mobility, as well as his lack of range and touch, it's clear he's in the mold of Noah/Bedrins/Varejao. All are starters and second bigs, which is exactly what Splitter will be.

Like those players, Splitter would be best next to a scoring PF and one with enough strength to occasionally cross-match defensively. A young Duncan would have been perfect. Unfortunately, at this point in his career, Duncan is no longer a PF; thus the Spurs conundrum. There's a very good chance they won't be able to acquire a big better than Splitter, yet if they trade for a PF, that PF will more than likely start over Splitter. That's the main problem with this team; the pieces just don't fit all that great together, which makes it difficult for them to play their best five together.

Agreed - but keep in mind that Noah/Varejao all started and played against top notch talent where Splitter didn't. Splitter reminds me of a slower Oberto.

That's why I'm kind of an advocate of trading TP for a PF. Josh Smith, David West, Al Horford, LeMarcus Aldridge or Al Jefferson. Anyone else, just keep TP.

[The Truth #6]

I think I like the trio of TD, Tiago, and Parker better than TD, one of Coach Jenkins PFs, and our rookie PG. Getting a better PF is cool but I can't see it being worth it if we end up possibly starting an unknown young PG. That seems like a step back in the short term, but if you're all about rebuilding then it makes some sense...but if rebuilding is the goal then there are lots of other nuclear options available as well.

[rascal]

Garbage minutes also mean that Splitter played with the end of the Spurs bench. Of course it would have been more difficult for him to play against starters of the opponent, but then his production might benefit from playing with Manu instead of Quinn. Stats do not tell the whole story ...


Garbage time also means very little defense is played and both teams are just playing out the remainder of the game. Many more open looks and lanes to the basket in garbage time.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

I think I like the trio of TD, Tiago, and Parker better than TD, one of Coach Jenkins PFs, and our rookie PG. Getting a better PF is cool but I can't see it being worth it if we end up possibly starting an unknown young PG. That seems like a step back in the short term, but if you're all about rebuilding then it makes some sense...but if rebuilding is the goal then there are lots of other nuclear options available as well.

To me, the only reason to rebuild is when your nucleus of talent is old and have little chance to compete for a title. Which, pretty much describes the Spurs. If the Spurs played in LA, Miami or NY, then it would be easier to just RELOAD w/ top notch talent but there are few top 5 in the league talent that really want to play in SA.

SA's formula for success in 1999 and since has been to DRAFT well. TD, Parker, Ginobili were all drafted and became elite. The role players were all trades or FAs. This past draft was a weak one. The Spurs should just bite the bullet, play the younger players (Anderson, Splitter, Leonard) and see where the chips lie. If they're lucky (YES, LUCKY), they'll become a lottery team NEXT year when the draft is strong. Maybe they'll be even luckier and get a top 5 pick and draft the next PF of their future.

That my friend, is REBUILDING. I know lots of fans don't want to hear it, but at the current rate of success (make playoffs and lose), they will never get a draft pick good enough to get anyone of value (they had to trade Hill to get a pick just outside the lottery in one of the weakest drafts in history).

[Mel_13]

That my friend, is REBUILDING.

A process that can begin the day after Tim Duncan plays his last game as a Spur.

[The Truth #6]

To me, the only reason to rebuild is when your nucleus of talent is old and have little chance to compete for a title. Which, pretty much describes the Spurs. If the Spurs played in LA, Miami or NY, then it would be easier to just RELOAD w/ top notch talent but there are few top 5 in the league talent that really want to play in SA.

SA's formula for success in 1999 and since has been to DRAFT well. TD, Parker, Ginobili were all drafted and became elite. The role players were all trades or FAs. This past draft was a weak one. The Spurs should just bite the bullet, play the younger players (Anderson, Splitter, Leonard) and see where the chips lie. If they're lucky (YES, LUCKY), they'll become a lottery team NEXT year when the draft is strong. Maybe they'll be even luckier and get a top 5 pick and draft the next PF of their future.

That my friend, is REBUILDING. I know lots of fans don't want to hear it, but at the current rate of success (make playoffs and lose), they will never get a draft pick good enough to get anyone of value (they had to trade Hill to get a pick just outside the lottery in one of the weakest drafts in history).

To me that sounds like rebuilding. REBUILDING, on the other hand, would be exploding the Big 3 for future draft picks and developing the real young players/tanking. But it would alienate the fanbase so much it might take years to get them back. And Holt needs to fill seats and sell hotdogs to keep the team slightly above water.

[The Truth #6]

Coach,

Reading your post again made me notice another point. You seem adamant that the Spurs will be very lucky (as in LUCKY) to be a lottery team next year. Tanking seems to be much easier then succeeding in my opinion. If the Spurs want to tank, why do you think it will take luck (or LUCK) to do so?

[Ginobilly]

To me, the only reason to rebuild is when your nucleus of talent is old and have little chance to compete for a title. Which, pretty much describes the Spurs. If the Spurs played in LA, Miami or NY, then it would be easier to just RELOAD w/ top notch talent but there are few top 5 in the league talent that really want to play in SA.

SA's formula for success in 1999 and since has been to DRAFT well. TD, Parker, Ginobili were all drafted and became elite. The role players were all trades or FAs. This past draft was a weak one. The Spurs should just bite the bullet, play the younger players (Anderson, Splitter, Leonard) and see where the chips lie. If they're lucky (YES, LUCKY), they'll become a lottery team NEXT year when the draft is strong. Maybe they'll be even luckier and get a top 5 pick and draft the next PF of their future.

That my friend, is REBUILDING. I know lots of fans don't want to hear it, but at the current rate of success (make playoffs and lose), they will never get a draft pick good enough to get anyone of value (they had to trade Hill to get a pick just outside the lottery in one of the weakest drafts in history).

I agree 100%! This upcoming season should be a fun one for Spurs fans. This year Pop is going to be forced to play rookies/2nd year players( 03 anyone) more than any other season. Anyone who thinks that Splitter will make the Spurs worse by being in the starting lineup with TP, Manu, Tim, is just a plain ass hater or a ginger fan.

[ChuckD]

To me that sounds like rebuilding. REBUILDING, on the other hand, would be exploding the Big 3 for future draft picks and developing the real young players/tanking. But it would alienate the fanbase so much it might take years to get them back. And Holt needs to fill seats and sell hotdogs to keep the team slightly above water.

The only alternative is to be half alive like Indy. They built their team around a B player, and are stuck in the middle, one year in the playoffs, one year with a low lottery pick. It's an almost unbreakable cycle if you don't have the courage to blow it up and be bad for 2-3 years, a la SEA/OKC.

[ElNono]

Last offseason I had a long back and forth with TD 21 about Splitter, how it would take time for him to adapt, how Pop doesn't really have a problem giving rooks the one season sabbatical treatment, how once Bonner was re-signed Splitter would suffer, etc etc etc.

Considering how pissed off TD 21 was about the Splitter's situation to end the season, I have to gather that (unfortunately) I was mostly right. :lol

Back then, I recall mentioning he isn't a better player than, say, Scola (oh noes, that name again). He's not far, and he's superior physically, IMO. But unless you're a beast like Howard or Lebron, some of that physical edge can easily be offset with basketball smarts (which Scola has done time and again when playing against Tiago).

I still think that's Tiago's ceiling. Against below-average or average teams, he can probably put up good to great numbers. But against good to great teams/players (ZBo, Pau, Bosh, etc), I don't think he'll have as much an impact.

The good news about Tiago is that he doesn't shy away from physicality. Something we've been missing since Oberto left, and Tim has had to deal with which obviously taxes him greatly. He should do a good job as a low post banger on defense (besides of his shot blocking abilities), and that should be an improvement right there. Ofcourse, this is provided he gets some meaningful time out there.

[benefactor]

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

I wished I lived near you I would wipe the floor with you.

[Cane]

lol rascal but this isn't too far behind tbh; although Fabbs deserves it :downspin: :


This site has many annoying posters, but you are probably the only one I would do physical harm to if I ever met you face to face. People should be given the death penalty for being as dumb as you.

[Killakobe81]

How EXACTLY did you or anyone else know that a guy who shot greater than 45% from the 3 for most of the season was going to shoot around 31 or 32 in the Playoffs. Pop is supposed to be clairvoyant?

Ok, if Pop is such a bad coach, then why was the team playing so well in the early part of the regular season? Is Bonner so old that he can't maintain pace an entire season? The better perimeter defense displayed on Bonner is supposed to open up greater lanes for the penetrators (TP and Manu and to some degree RJ - if he had been in the game) but those that are supposed to either didn't capitalize or were too hurt to. Bonner is a ROLE player. Does it make sense to blame his lack of defense during the 15-20 minutes he's in the game as the cause for the Spurs demise. McDyess played EXCELLENT defense on Randolph IMO, Zach just played BETTER offense. Nothing against McDyess - he just didn't get it done. We can all speculate that if we had Channing Frye or Thompson or Josh Smith that the outcome would've been different but the Spurs DIDN'T HAVE those guys. Pop played the guys he had. On top of that, when the starting SF (that's really the only one you have) isn't good enough to be on the floor in the Playoffs, what should've been Pop's move then? Danny Green? Move your injured and undersized for the position SG to SF and put in another undersized player at SG?

We all want to criticize Pop for not seeing what seems to be obvious after the fact but I just don't agree...

Agreed. Pop is a top 5 coach who no longer has a top 10 player in the NBA, tough to win in the playoffs without one ...

I would take Pop over his pupil Mike Brown, who is a "solid" coach ...

Problem is many fans (Laker fans too) find it easier to criticize their coach or GM (phil/Pop) instead of their team's star: Kobe, Duncan, Lebron etc. ...

[ElNono]

People that claim that posters are bitching about Pop's love affair with Bonner only after the fact haven't really been around (I'm sure a few more posters jumped into the failboat after this season, but I digress). One only has to bump up the 'Spurs re-sign Bonner' thread from last offseason to take a look at the reaction back then. If the argument is that Pop (current VP of basketball operations IIRC, with a direct hand in the FO) didn't have any other big man to play instead of Bonner, the fault is entirely on him for sticking with him last offseason instead of going a different route.

I liked Pop a lot more when he didn't have this kind of love affairs, and he was an in-your-face coach. He has changed. He's still a heck of a coach though.