Monroe: Splitter figures to start

[TD 21]

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursna...-need-to-rush/ (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/07/06/for-spurs-sake-no-need-to-rush/)

If there is a 2011-12 season, the Spurs’ starting lineup figures to be Duncan, 35, 29-year-old Tony Parker, 34-year-old Manu Ginobili, 31-year-old Richard Jefferson and 26-year-old Tiago Splitter.


I'm inclined to believe this is just Monroe putting two and two together. There are myriad reasons why he'd surmise this.

1) Pop has talked about wanting to get back to being a top 5-7 defensive team again.

2) Pop has denied size is an issue (probably to not seem desperate), but it's beyond obvious it is.

3) Pop has talked about Blair needing to get in better shape and to stay in shape throughout the season. Suffice it to say, when you combine that with the fact that he was dropped from the rotation in the latter half of the Grizzlies series, it's clear he's in the doghouse.

4) There's at least a decent chance the Spurs won't be able to acquire the type of starting PF they seek (it's more financial than assets related). Which, based on Pop's comments, seems to be a younger McDyess.

All that being said, there's a possibility Monroe has information from someone familiar with the Spurs intentions.

I thought it was a virtual lock until I heard Buford a few weeks back. He made it seem highly unlikely. Pop didn't rule it out, but didn't exactly sound ecstatic with the idea.

If they go this route, then that would obviously rule out acquiring a starting PF, which would probably lessen the chances of Blair being traded. But if he's kept, he'd be primarily playing next to Bonner again. And since neither Duncan or Splitter figures to average 30 mpg, that's a lot of time for Blair and Bonner to play together. Which means they can probably forget about becoming a top 5-7 defensive team again.

Whether Monroe is putting two and two together or has information from someone in the know, him writing this can't be a bad thing.

[NASpurs]

I'm retarded, I take it back. You just posted the link. Sorry about that.

Egg on my face.

[TDMVPDPOY]

splitter should be starting and gettin big minutes

as for rj, tp...team defense top 5-7 lmao conley and mayo says hi

[Cessation]

If the Golden God starts, I'll be shitting myself.

[Hooks]

If Splitter starts he'll easily be a 8 & 6 guy in around 25 MPG, that also does a lot of stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

[koriwhat]

i really don't think blair was benched because he couldn't hang during that 1st round... dude lost his g-ma during that series and i'm sure that weighed heavy on him. maybe, maybe not.

[TE]

What was Pop thinking going into the Grizzlies series?

How the hell are you so suppose to counter a frontline of Randolph and Gasol (with Arthur getting spot up minutes) with the likes of an old Mcydess and Duncan (with Bonner and Blair getting a considerable chunk of spot up minutes)?

[TE]

i really don't think blair was benched because he couldn't hang during that 1st round... dude lost his g-ma during that series and i'm sure that weighed heavy on him. maybe, maybe not.

Maybe. I thought Blair could have played a hell of a lot better against Memphis's bigs.

[sananspursfan21]

i'd be cool with andray blatche

[objective]

Monroe's off the deep end, doesn't he know that Splitter playing, let alone starting, wouldn't be fair to the team?

Now as for the real starter and major minutes man for next year: "Maybe it's Matt Bonner."

[jag]

High level investigative stuff from our boy Mike.

[silverblk mystix]

It is incredible to me and has been incredible to read that for the past few years;

Pop will say one thing ....and he will 9 times out of ten...follow through exactly as he said it...


Fans (on this board and even SA Express writers) and reporters will listen to what Pop said...and then...

Will predict that Pop will do the opposite.

Example: Pop will re-sign Bonner and say that he is a big part of the team---and EVERYONE here will say...Bonner will only be used sparingly --10-12 minutes...blah-blah...



Fuckin' incredible....

Pop is a no-nonsense guy...he says what he means and doesn't really care about playing games...

The difference now is that Pop says things that don't make sense because he has completely lost his mind...so he WILL follow through on his comments...and the Spurs will continue to be mediocre - at best.

It sucks...but it is what it is.

[itzsoweezee]

It is incredible to me and has been incredible to read that for the past few years;

Pop will say one thing ....and he will 9 times out of ten...follow through exactly as he said it...


Fans (on this board and even SA Express writers) and reporters will listen to what Pop said...and then...

Will predict that Pop will do the opposite.

Example: Pop will re-sign Bonner and say that he is a big part of the team---and EVERYONE here will say...Bonner will only be used sparingly --10-12 minutes...blah-blah...



Fuckin' incredible....

Pop is a no-nonsense guy...he says what he means and doesn't really care about playing games...

The difference now is that Pop says things that don't make sense because he has completely lost his mind...so he WILL follow through on his comments...and the Spurs will continue to be mediocre - at best.

It sucks...but it is what it is.



This is so true. It's hilarious, Popovich will make some kind of mindnumbingly stupid statement regarding the team and homers will play it off like "that's CIA Pop". And they're wrong EVERY time.

Tiago will be getting major minutes in the second half of the season - CIA Pop :smokin

Bonner's getting major minutes now, but come playoff time, he's going to be riding the pine - CIA Pop :smokin

Finley supplanting Bowen in the rotation is all part of CIA Pop's master plan :smokin

Pop called Bogans the "centerpiece" to throw everyone off - CIA Pop :smokin

You get the idea. The plea cops for this guy never stop.

[Solid D]

Pure conjecture on Monroe's part.

[Sean Cagney]

This is so true. It's hilarious, Popovich will make some kind of mindnumbingly stupid statement regarding the team and homers will play it off like "that's CIA Pop". And they're wrong EVERY time.

Tiago will be getting major minutes in the second half of the season - CIA Pop :smokin

Bonner's getting major minutes now, but come playoff time, he's going to be riding the pine - CIA Pop :smokin

Finley supplanting Bowen in the rotation is all part of CIA Pop's master plan :smokin

Pop called Bogans the "centerpiece" to throw everyone off - CIA Pop :smokin

You get the idea. The plea cops for this guy never stop.

:rollin:rollin I guess CIA NOW MEANS CERTIFIED IDIOT ACTIONS!!!!!!

[spurs1990]

Good thing about no season being played next year is not have having to watch that clusterfuck of a lineup.

[silverblk mystix]

This is so true. It's hilarious, Popovich will make some kind of mindnumbingly stupid statement regarding the team and homers will play it off like "that's CIA Pop". And they're wrong EVERY time.

Tiago will be getting major minutes in the second half of the season - CIA Pop :smokin

Bonner's getting major minutes now, but come playoff time, he's going to be riding the pine - CIA Pop :smokin

Finley supplanting Bowen in the rotation is all part of CIA Pop's master plan :smokin

Pop called Bogans the "centerpiece" to throw everyone off - CIA Pop :smokin

You get the idea. The plea cops for this guy never stop.

WERD!

We have documented proof of Pop's insanity...but all this does is reinforce the belief that Pop is just fuckin' with people...

Pop could probably state that he is going to fuckin' murder his neighbor...then actually murder him...

and the fuckin' SAPD crack detectives will make a statement on the Express rag..."pop had nothing to do with this...his statements were just made tongue in cheek...he is NOT a suspect!"

Incredible.

[baseline bum]

I don't think Splitter and Duncan could start together effectively. Don't get me wrong; it'd be 100x better than starting Bonner next to Tim, but neither Tim nor Tiago can guard the 4. That's why I'd kill to get Varejao on the team next season. Tiago definitely needs the chance to be playing major minutes next season though. He could be on the floor any time Tim is off and they could play together when the other team doesn't have an athletic 4 out there. Even that could be a stretch though, since I think they'd get in each other's way in the offense.

The younger McDyess comment made me laugh; his name is Amare Stoudemire, and no way the Spurs are pulling him from the Knicks for anyone on the roster.

[baseline bum]

Monroe is a lunatic, thinking the 99 Spurs offer an approximation to the 11 Spurs. A better comparison would be the 99 Jazz, who looked awful by the end of that hectic season. Having that 23 year old Hall of Famer made a pretty big difference that year. Maybe if Leonard can become a franchise player as a rookie... :lol

[silverblk mystix]

I don't think Splitter and Duncan could start together effectively. Don't get me wrong; it'd be 100x better than starting Bonner next to Tim, but neither Tim nor Tiago can guard the 4. That's why I'd kill to get Varejao on the team next season. Tiago definitely needs the chance to be playing major minutes next season though. He could be on the floor any time Tim is off and they could play together when the other team doesn't have an athletic 4 out there. Even that could be a stretch though, since I think they'd get in each other's way in the offense.

The younger McDyess comment made me laugh; his name is Amare Stoudemire, and no way the Spurs are pulling him from the Knicks for anyone on the roster.


Tiago can most definitely guard the four...way fuckin better than Bonner,Dice,Blair and even Timmy.

The only fuckin' person that thinks he can't...is that fuckin idiot Pop...and then everybody believes this shit...

Pop already hinted that Tim & Tiago will NOT be paired together...yet Monroe and everyone else here will think this actually means that Pop will pair Timmy & Tiago...

this is what will frustrate the shit out of me the next season...that Pop will NEVER fuckin' see the obvious.

[baseline bum]

Tiago can most definitely guard the four...way fuckin better than Bonner,Dice,Blair and even Timmy.

The only fuckin' person that thinks he can't...is that fuckin idiot Pop...and then everybody believes this shit...

Pop already hinted that Tim & Tiago will NOT be paired together...yet Monroe and everyone else here will think this actually means that Pop will pair Timmy & Tiago...

this is what will frustrate the shit out of me the next season...that Pop will NEVER fuckin' see the obvious.

I'm going to say Splitter will never be able to guard Nowitzki the way McDyess was able to.

[silverblk mystix]

I'm going to say Splitter will never be able to guard Nowitzki the way McDyess was able to.

IF the spurs had a young coach...and this coach was like a Nate McMillan or the young coach from new orleans...or even the young indiana coach...

they would at least throw Tiago on dirk and just let him foul out a few times...what's to lose?

but I guara-damn-tee you that after a coupla' times Tiago would begin to do pretty well...he has the foot speed, the intelligence, the craftiness, the savvy ...to at least play a respectable defensive game ---


IF GIVEN THE FUCKIN' PLAYING TIME....A LOT OF PLAYING TIME TO FEEL AT HOME ON THE COURT!

[Sofaking]

Splitter sucks...we need someone better than his frail ass in the lineup. Athletic 4 badly

[ducks]

I'm going to say Splitter will never be able to guard Nowitzki the way McDyess was able to.

dirk is not the typically 4

[Interrohater]

I'm going to say Splitter will never be able to guard Nowitzki the way McDyess was able to.
Come on man, there's not many people on this Earth that can guard Nowitzki, that's not really a fair judgement of Splitter's skills. Right now, he's our second best big, put him out there.

[Interrohater]

Splitter sucks...we need someone better than his frail ass in the lineup. Athletic 4 badly
What are you, a craigslist ad?

[Ginobilly]

IF the spurs had a young coach...and this coach was like a Nate McMillan or the young coach from new orleans...or even the young indiana coach...

they would at least throw Tiago on dirk and just let him foul out a few times...what's to lose?

but I guara-damn-tee you that after a coupla' times Tiago would begin to do pretty well...he has the foot speed, the intelligence, the craftiness, the savvy ...to at least play a respectable defensive game ---


IF GIVEN THE FUCKIN' PLAYING TIME....A LOT OF PLAYING TIME TO FEEL AT HOME ON THE COURT!

I agree %100!
What is there to lose at this point? We haven't won shit since 07, so why not experiment with Tiago and Tim? Fuckin just play them and see what happens. We already seen the Tim and Bonner/Mcdyss story many times and know how it ends every year. I wanna see how the Spurs do with Tiago win or lose. Play that guero until he passes out or fouls out every game.

[silverblk mystix]

I agree %100!
What is there to lose at this point? We haven't won shit since 07, so why not experiment with Tiago and Tim? Fuckin just play them and see what happens. We already seen the Tim and Bonner/Mcdyss story many times and know how it ends every year. I wanna see how the Spurs do with Tiago win or lose. Play that guero until he passes out or fouls out every game.

If you look back a few years...Bynum was a foul-prone clumsy oft-injured scrub...

but he was given ample playing time...

now he is scaring the shit outta gm's and he is an oft-injured soon to be all-star...

[spurs10]

I don't think Splitter and Duncan could start together effectively. Don't get me wrong; it'd be 100x better than starting Bonner next to Tim, but neither Tim nor Tiago can guard the 4. That's why I'd kill to get Varejao on the team next season. Tiago definitely needs the chance to be playing major minutes next season though. He could be on the floor any time Tim is off and they could play together when the other team doesn't have an athletic 4 out there. Even that could be a stretch though, since I think they'd get in each other's way in the offense.

The younger McDyess comment made me laugh; his name is Amare Stoudemire, and no way the Spurs are pulling him from the Knicks for anyone on the roster.
Very well said.

[Ginobilly]

If you look back a few years...Bynum was a foul-prone clumsy oft-injured scrub...

but he was given ample playing time...

now he is scaring the shit outta gm's and he is an oft-injured soon to be all-star...

Yup! That's how you learn the NBA game by getting playing time. That's what the Spurs should of done with Mahinmi when he was here, then maybe he could of hit a clutch jumper for the Spurs instead of the Mavs. I dont understand how some players get more leeway than others. Why is Matt Bonner given more chances and oppurtunities to learn through his mistakes and somebody like Mahinmi not? I sometimes think it's a race thing. Matt Bonner is your good ole American white boy, while Mahinmi was your french, whipping boy field negro.

[Ginobilly]

I don't think Splitter and Duncan could start together effectively. Don't get me wrong; it'd be 100x better than starting Bonner next to Tim, but neither Tim nor Tiago can guard the 4. That's why I'd kill to get Varejao on the team next season. Tiago definitely needs the chance to be playing major minutes next season though. He could be on the floor any time Tim is off and they could play together when the other team doesn't have an athletic 4 out there. Even that could be a stretch though, since I think they'd get in each other's way in the offense.

The younger McDyess comment made me laugh; his name is Amare Stoudemire, and no way the Spurs are pulling him from the Knicks for anyone on the roster.

Varejao would be nice, but we are going to play with what we have for now, and that's Tim, Bonner, Blair, and Tiago. Do you really wanna see Tim and Bonner get embarrased for a fifth or fourth year in a roll in the playoffs? What athletic fours do you speak of(David West/Amare?)? The wests top contenders(Lakers, Mavs, Grizz, Thunder) all have tall lineups. Maybe in the regular season they'll struggle against some teams with quick athletic fours(but i doubt any of those teams are threats in the playoffs.You have to go big in the playoffs.

[silverblk mystix]

Yup! That's how you learn the NBA game by getting playing time. That's what the Spurs should of done with Mahinmi when he was here, then maybe he could of hit a clutch jumper for the Spurs instead of the Mavs. I dont understand how some players get more leeway than others. Why is Matt Bonner given more chances and oppurtunities to learn through his mistakes and somebody like Mahinmi not? I sometimes think it's a race thing. Matt Bonner is your good ole American white boy, while Mahinmi was your french, whipping boy field negro.

Probably not racial...Pop had Finley as his true love before Bonner...

[Stalin]

Pop loves offence these days, thats why bonner>mhinmi>spliter>etc.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The Spurs haven't won a single game in the second round since 2008.

Think about that for a second.

[SCdac]

I don't think it's a race thing either, I mean we traded one white dude in Rasho for another white dude in Matt Bonner, and both players at one point were not the biggest fan favorites to us or the coaching staff. Think it has more to do with Duncan not physically able to play the position of power forward any more (which is why I have a hard time seeing Splitter starting next to him), combined with Pop & Crew years ago having fallen in the love with having an Horry type player paired with Tim. Bonner started a total of less than 1% of the 150+ games he played in Toronto, and by his third season in SA he was trotted out as basically the full-time starting C. Kind of a shame that he's provided so much to our, for lack of a better term, losing culture (in the playoffs), yet we see a player like Hill traded away.

[Ginobilly]

I don't think it's a race thing either, I mean we traded one white dude in Rasho for another white dude in Matt Bonner, and both players at one point were not the biggest fan favorites to us or the coaching staff. Think it has more to do with Duncan not physically able to play the position of power forward any more (which is why I have a hard time seeing Splitter starting next to him), combined with Pop & Crew years ago having fallen in the love with having an Horry type player paired with Tim. Bonner started a total of less than 1% of the 150+ games he played in Toronto, and by his third season in SA he was trotted out as basically the full-time starting C. Kind of a shame that he's provided so much to our, for lack of a better term, losing culture (in the playoffs), yet we see a player like Hill traded away.


Bonner and "Horry type player" should never be used in the same paragraph. It's an insult to Horry and the game of basketball.

[Stalin]

Bonner and "Horry type player" should never be used in the same paragraph. It's an insult to Horry and the game of basketball.

bonnger is an insult to the game of basketball

[Hoops Czar]

Come on man, there's not many people on this Earth that can guard Nowitzki, that's not really a fair judgement of Splitter's skills. Right now, he's our second best big, put him out there.

It isn't just Nowitski. He was overwhelmed against most starters last year and putting him out there as one is just setting him up for failure. Any 7-footer that has to resort to flopping because he's incapable of blocking a shot or can't physically matchup with his opponent shouldn't be in the starting lineup. He brings very little to the table both offensively and defensively. Splitter tries and his hearts in the right place but the Spurs can't win with good intentions.

[Interrohater]

It isn't just Nowitski. He was overwhelmed against most starters last year and putting him out there as one is just setting him up for failure. Any 7-footer that has to resort to flopping because he's incapable of blocking a shot or can't physically matchup with his opponent shouldn't be in the starting lineup. He brings very little to the table both offensively and defensively. Splitter tries and his hearts in the right place but the Spurs can't win with good intentions.
Firstly, I disagree with him being "overwhelmed" by most starters. I think he did an extremely serviceable job out there. Secondly, he doesn't 'resort' to flopping, he's a euro player and that's just the culture, and it works. I hate it as much as the next guy, but it's now part of the game. I'm not trying to nominate the guy for an all-star bid, all I'm saying is he's the second best big that we have, so we might as well play him. If you want to complain about not being able to block a shot, you'll have to put the blame where it belongs. Pop has instructed every big player since D-Rob to stand straight up with your arms up and not go for the block.

[spurs10]

Tiago can most definitely guard the four...way fuckin better than Bonner,Dice,Blair and even Timmy.

The only fuckin' person that thinks he can't...is that fuckin idiot Pop...and then everybody believes this shit...

Pop already hinted that Tim & Tiago will NOT be paired together...yet Monroe and everyone else here will think this actually means that Pop will pair Timmy & Tiago...

this is what will frustrate the shit out of me the next season...that Pop will NEVER fuckin' see the obvious.
Excuse me, but I don't understand what you are trying to say. ???

[Fireball]

If we have a season at all I hope Tiago plays at least 25 minutes per game. I would like him to start next to Tim, but if Dice retires and we do not add a servicable big man, it might be better to play the combos Duncan/Blair and Splitter/Bonner.

[ohmwrecker]

I'm really liking Jason Thompson as that athletic 4/5th big. I hope the Spurs can find a way to attain him from the Kings.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Sooner or later - you gotta give everyone on the team some quality minutes or at least a DEEP look in practice to see what they got. It's Tiago's time.

[mountainballer]

Tim likely won't play more than 25 MPG. so there will be a lot of minutes at C left, also against the other teams starter(s). it won't be Tim+Tiago and Bonner+Blair, even if Tiago is going to start.
however, the big rotation still isn't well balanced, especially on offense.
Spurs need a starting caliber big (I guess someone mentioned that a younger version of Dice would be the right fit).
what we can offer is a Blair+Dice contract package. could sweeten with the 2012 pick.
btw. this isn't a great package, but it isn't totally garbage either.

[temujin]

Splitter likely to start.

For Brazil.

[Chomag]

The Spurs haven't won a single game in the second round since 2008.

Think about that for a second.

And yet some people still think spurs are a championship contending team with the current roster and lineups... it boggles my mind. And also now adding in mind that Spurs key players will be yet another year older.

If it just wasn't for late those late season injuries..(sarcasm)

Spurs have allot more work to do then allot of people think to become a dominant threat in the NBA again.

[Horse]

I don't think Splitter and Duncan could start together effectively. Don't get me wrong; it'd be 100x better than starting Bonner next to Tim, but neither Tim nor Tiago can guard the 4. That's why I'd kill to get Varejao on the team next season. Tiago definitely needs the chance to be playing major minutes next season though. He could be on the floor any time Tim is off and they could play together when the other team doesn't have an athletic 4 out there. Even that could be a stretch though, since I think they'd get in each other's way in the offense.

The younger McDyess comment made me laugh; his name is Amare Stoudemire, and no way the Spurs are pulling him from the Knicks for anyone on the roster.
Except amare has never played D. Or even rebounded that well for his position.

[Blake]

ItThe difference now is that Pop says things that don't make sense because he has completely lost his mind...

and the Spurs will continue to be mediocre - at best.

It sucks...but it is what it is.

60+ wins and a mediocre 1 seed in the West absolutely sucks major ass.

[baseline bum]

Except amare has never played D. Or even rebounded that well for his position.

That is true; it's too bad, since he had all the physical tools to be an incredible defender. Amare was considered a monster defensive prospect in high school, but playing for D'Antoni ruined him. Had he played for a competent coach he'd probably be a perennial MVP candidate.

[silverblk mystix]

60+ wins and a mediocre 1 seed in the West absolutely sucks major ass.

With the talent that has been on these spurs team...Pop in his prime...or any other young coach on top of his game would have resulted in titles...

in...

2008

2010

2011


So Pop has completely underachieved.

[baseline bum]

With the talent that has been on these spurs team...Pop in his prime...or any other young coach on top of his game would have resulted in titles...

in...

2008

2010

2011


So Pop has completely underachieved.

http://cdn.hotstockmarket.com/c/c7/c7c2fe70_207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg

[Chomag]

60+ wins and a mediocre 1 seed in the West absolutely sucks major ass.
Yep! Where the Hell is our regular season championship parade dammit!

[Blake]

With the talent that has been on these spurs team...Pop in his prime...or any other young coach on top of his game would have resulted in titles...

in...

2008

2010

2011


So Pop has completely underachieved.

:lmao "Pop in his prime"

[Blake]

Yep! Where the Hell is our regular season championship parade dammit!

There wasn't one! Dammit! what a mediocre season!

[Chomag]

There wasn't one! Dammit! what a mediocre season!

Indeed.

[silverblk mystix]

:lmao "Pop in his prime"

It is actually funny...

you already forgot what Pop was like when he was still relevant...

You miss a defensive assignment...you are on the bench after drawing Pop's wrath...

Pop---after 2007---began to make excuses for players like Finley...who would fuck up defensively...and Pop would talk about how professional Finley was...

IN PRACTICE!

And continue to justify Finley's shitty play during games....

THAT Pop is the one that coaches the spurs now.

[Blake]

Indeed.

not really.

the Spurs run through the first 2/3rds of the season was the opposite of mediocre.

[Blake]

It is actually funny...

it really is.


you already forgot what Pop was like when he was still relevant...

You miss a defensive assignment...you are on the bench after drawing Pop's wrath...

I think Pop's wrath was evident in the continued benching of Blair at the end of the season.


Pop---after 2007---began to make excuses for players like Finley...who would fuck up defensively...and Pop would talk about how professional Finley was...

IN PRACTICE!

Pop called a veteran player "professional"?

He must be past his prime!


And continue to justify Finley's shitty play during games....

THAT Pop is the one that coaches the spurs now.

So you are saying that the same Pop that won a championship in 2007 obviously hit a coaching wall in 2008 because he praised Michael Finley.

That's pretty stupid, tbh.

The hate is strong in you.

[purist]

You know what's really funny? It's not the deference given to Pop. It's not how any thing remotely positive about the Spurs FO or coach evokes an onslaught of criticism in this forum. It's how a writer for a daily newspaper (who gets paid for his words) gets ridiculed by a bunch of wannabe sports journalists, GMs, coaches and has-been, never-been athletes in this forum... as though what's written here matters.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

And yet some people still think spurs are a championship contending team with the current roster and lineups... it boggles my mind. And also now adding in mind that Spurs key players will be yet another year older.

If it just wasn't for late those late season injuries..(sarcasm)

Spurs have allot more work to do then allot of people think to become a dominant threat in the NBA again.


Dallas had never won a championship yet still won this year. Their team is older than the Spurs. Spurs have added some talented youth in the past three years with Splitter, Anderson, Neal, Blair and now Leonard.

Can you please point out a team in the West that you consider championship contender?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm going to say Splitter will never be able to guard Nowitzki the way McDyess was able to.

Of course he cannot. He can actually get to Nowitzki's shot. Splitters problem with guarding perimeter 4s is one of experience but the European game has more bigs that can shoot so the learning curve will not be as steep.

He definitely has the quickness for it. For a 7 fter his lateral mobility is very good. Its not as if Nowitzki is a gazelle either.

[rascal]

Firstly, I disagree with him being "overwhelmed" by most starters. I think he did an extremely serviceable job out there. Secondly, he doesn't 'resort' to flopping, he's a euro player and that's just the culture, and it works. I hate it as much as the next guy, but it's now part of the game. I'm not trying to nominate the guy for an all-star bid, all I'm saying is he's the second best big that we have, so we might as well play him. If you want to complain about not being able to block a shot, you'll have to put the blame where it belongs. Pop has instructed every big player since D-Rob to stand straight up with your arms up and not go for the block.

He was not matched up with the best players in the league most of the time.
How do you know what Pop has told Splitter about not blocking shots. Splitter plays grounded, not a shot blocker because that is the way he plays.

[MaNu4Tres]

He was not matched up with the best players in the league most of the time.
How do you know what Pop has told Splitter about not blocking shots. Splitter plays grounded, not a shot blocker because that is the way he plays.

In my opinion, you saw him playing that way because if he picked up two fouls within the first 6 minutes of his playing time, Pop would sit him for the entire game (another thing I don't understand about Pop). If Splitter would pick up two fouls during his first stint in the game, Pop developed a habit of not putting him back in the game--not even in the second half (why I don't know, it never made sense to me why Pop worries about a bench players fouls when they won't see anymore than 20 minutes anyway).

The guy was scared to foul because of the limited opportunities he got. He had to try to stay on the floor to make the most of the few minutes he actually received. You could obviously see this paranoia about him throughout most of his games by his actions of standing straight up and trying not to foul. And there were several games where it seemed like the refs were just picking on Splitter (not saying they were, but he got called on a lot of bullshit fouls throughout the year--rookie treatment? Probably).

All in all, I think next year you will see a different Splitter in the way he defends if Pop gives the guy the longer leash like he should.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the defense splitter showed is like what rasho and oberto showed while here, they barely jump, and just stood their position and hands up

[TD 21]

I don't think Splitter and Duncan could start together effectively. Don't get me wrong; it'd be 100x better than starting Bonner next to Tim, but neither Tim nor Tiago can guard the 4. That's why I'd kill to get Varejao on the team next season. Tiago definitely needs the chance to be playing major minutes next season though. He could be on the floor any time Tim is off and they could play together when the other team doesn't have an athletic 4 out there. Even that could be a stretch though, since I think they'd get in each other's way in the offense.

The younger McDyess comment made me laugh; his name is Amare Stoudemire, and no way the Spurs are pulling him from the Knicks for anyone on the roster.

Splitter is a better face up defender than Gasol and Duncan is a significantly better jump shooter than Bynum. Yet the Lakers not only play Bynum next to Gasol, but manage to do so effectively. This is not a comparison of the two duos. I'm just saying, if the strengths outweigh the weaknesses, then the twin towers front line can still work.

Obviously, it would help the spacing if Splitter develops a semi-reliable 10-15 foot jumper. But it's not like Oberto was ever a knockdown mid range shooter and all they did is win a championship with him starting next to Duncan.

What I mean when I say "a younger McDyess" is, a young guy who's game resembles McDyess' game at this point in his career. In other words, someone who's not a liability when it comes to mid range shooting, rebounding or defending.

[The Truth #6]

A lot of trade ideas are being thrown around for getting another big man. What about just playing Tiago and seeing how that goes before devising alternate scenarios?

And as for why Pop plays some shitty players - it's not because they're shitty but because they've gotten "over themselves" and usually have suffered somewhere along the way and/or shown to be a good foot soldier/robot for Pop. Bonner is a perfect example of a player who does everything Pop wants yet still sucks yet Pop still plays him. Bonner knows all the plays and is in the right position most often, but he doesn't get results. I don't think Pop sees the results. He sees the effort and allegiance and rewards it with more playing time. Not a perfect way to win games, but to me, that seems to be what is happening.

[ALVAREZ6]

Monroe: Splitter figures to start
...LMFAO, is he nuts? Which part of last season is any hint that he will start this year? :lmao


He better hope he's healthy for training camp. Otherwise, back in the dog house, even if he participates in 75% of it.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

You know what's really funny? It's not the deference given to Pop. It's not how any thing remotely positive about the Spurs FO or coach evokes an onslaught of criticism in this forum. It's how a writer for a daily newspaper (who gets paid for his words) gets ridiculed by a bunch of wannabe sports journalists, GMs, coaches and has-been, never-been athletes in this forum... as though what's written here matters.

Wannabe sports journalists, has-been and never been athletes?

I can only speak for myself but I played D1 ball (small school that wasn't very good and I was like 3rd string on the team) but certainly never was a never-been.

I have no delusions about being a sports journalist - I just like reading/sharing differing opinions about the teams that I like. I don't go on the Boston Celtics or Toronto Raptors sites and blog...

Has-been. That's a definite as I'm well past my prime as far as being an athlete. Although, I am an AAU basketball coach.

Having mentioned all that, let me share a thing or two about coaching. First and foremost, every coach is only as good as his players. The Spurs players are decent but unathletic (i.e. they don't match up well w/ athletic teams). Memphis knew this and took advantage. No matter what kind of coaching job Pop could muster, he didn't have the defensive answer for the athletic front court. Second, most of your GREAT coaching occurs in the off-season. Working on players shots, honing their individual skills wrt defense, lateral quickness, jumping ability, etc. isn't something teams spend a whole lot of time on during the season. Games are so frequent much of what is discussed is overall game-planning/strategy and film study. Third, the Spurs BEST player had a broken arm. Their 2nd best player didn't show up. Their 3rd best player is a shell of himself and is no longer as mobile or athletic.

You could put Mike Brown, Tom Thibodeaux, Pat Riley, Larry Brown or even Phil Jackson in charge of the Spurs and the result probably would've been the same. In fact, are people thinking Phil is a bad coach since the Lakers didn't make it to the Conf finals?

[Tyrone Jenkins]

BTW - anyone thinking that Pop is partial to Bonner to a fault, read the article below:

http://www.projectspurs.com/2011-articles/july/room-for-improvement-matt-bonner.html

Bonner was instrumental in the 1/2st half of the season. Shooting 46% from 3 is no small feat. Why should Pop think that Bonner will shoot a full 13% less in the playoffs?

[TJastal]

Wannabe sports journalists, has-been and never been athletes?

I can only speak for myself but I played D1 ball (small school that wasn't very good and I was like 3rd string on the team) but certainly never was a never-been.

I have no delusions about being a sports journalist - I just like reading/sharing differing opinions about the teams that I like. I don't go on the Boston Celtics or Toronto Raptors sites and blog...

Has-been. That's a definite as I'm well past my prime as far as being an athlete. Although, I am an AAU basketball coach.

Having mentioned all that, let me share a thing or two about coaching. First and foremost, every coach is only as good as his players. The Spurs players are decent but unathletic (i.e. they don't match up well w/ athletic teams). Memphis knew this and took advantage. No matter what kind of coaching job Pop could muster, he didn't have the defensive answer for the athletic front court. Second, most of your GREAT coaching occurs in the off-season. Working on players shots, honing their individual skills wrt defense, lateral quickness, jumping ability, etc. isn't something teams spend a whole lot of time on during the season. Games are so frequent much of what is discussed is overall game-planning/strategy and film study. Third, the Spurs BEST player had a broken arm. Their 2nd best player didn't show up. Their 3rd best player is a shell of himself and is no longer as mobile or athletic.

You could put Mike Brown, Tom Thibodeaux, Pat Riley, Larry Brown or even Phil Jackson in charge of the Spurs and the result probably would've been the same. In fact, are people thinking Phil is a bad coach since the Lakers didn't make it to the Conf finals?

So I'm guessing you and Blake are the 3rd string of the popsucker crew? Since the 1st and 2nd stringers have been getting torched lately? :lol

Btw, nice try blowing smoke up everybody's ass. Maybe Chumpdumper will give you a promotion to 2nd string. :lol

Just quit it already. Do you honestly think ANY of those coaches have given Bonbon 20+ minutes every game against the worst possible team matchup-wise for him when they had a legitimate 7 foot defensive juggernaut (in comparision terms to Bonner at least) on the bench? (No need to answer this rhetorical question whose answer is obvious).

[rascal]

BTW - anyone thinking that Pop is partial to Bonner to a fault, read the article below:

http://www.projectspurs.com/2011-articles/july/room-for-improvement-matt-bonner.html

Bonner was instrumental in the 1/2st half of the season. Shooting 46% from 3 is no small feat. Why should Pop think that Bonner will shoot a full 13% less in the playoffs?

Most everyone on here knew Bonner would not continue shooting at that earlier pace. Pop should have also known this. Defenses guard closer and don't give the easy open looks that Bonner sees during the regular season.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

So I'm guessing you and Blake are the 3rd string of the popsucker crew? Since the 1st and 2nd stringers have been getting torched lately? :lol

Btw, nice try blowing smoke up everybody's ass. Maybe Chumpdumper will give you a promotion to 2nd string. :lol

Just quit it already. Do you honestly think ANY of those coaches have given Bonbon 20+ minutes every game against the worst possible team matchup-wise for him when they had a legitimate 7 foot defensive juggernaut (in comparision terms to Bonner at least) on the bench? (No need to answer this rhetorical question whose answer is obvious).

I don't claim to be some "master basketball theorist", I was just mentioning my experience in the past (and now) to quantify my position. I noticed you conveniently left off your credentials...although I have noticed there are a few people on here claiming to be Spurs FO personnel and the like and there really is no way to verify what I'm stating or what you would claim.

Regardless of that, I don't think there's any need for name calling on here. I don't know you nor do I need to make fun of your position (or lack thereof) to get my point across.

Which is - I think Pop is one of the better coaches in the league. We're always comparing and rank ordering players - I would put Pop in the top 5 coaches in the league.

My quantification - 1st of all would be his players. At just about every position, he has guys who have limitations unlike many other teams. If anyone were completely honest and were willing to admit, there isn't a player on the Spurs who played last year that is top 5 at their position. PGs - Paul, D Will, Nash, Rose, Rondo are all better than TP last year and there are several "rating" sites that feel the same. You may argue that TP is better than Nash or Rondo - I disagree.

SG - Wade, Kobe, Joe Johnson, Ray Allen and Monta Ellis are all thought to be better than Manu by many "experts" and I don't disagree. Again, you can argue back and forth about the 4th or 5th best guy but one thing is certain, an INJURED Manu isn't anywhere on this list.

SF, PF and C - no need to even go there for the rest of the Spurs. TD is nowhere near where he used to be.

With that group of guys, Pop got the team to the best record in the West.

And, in the playoffs, Pop had an injured Manu, a top 7 or 8 PG in the league who played like a top 20 PG and who else? TD?

Think about that. Is is REALLY realistic to think that Erik Spoelstra or Rick Carlisle would've gotten more out of the team than Pop (in the regular season OR playoffs)? Who on the team has the capability to make shots like Dirk or finish like Miami's Big 3? As much as I don't like the Mavs, Dirk had a game where he missed 3 shots all game (went 31 for 34 or something ridiculous like that) in which they barely won. Who on the Spurs last year was capable of that performance.

Plain and simple, the Spurs don't have the players.

[Blake]

So I'm guessing you and Blake are the 3rd string of the popsucker crew? Since the 1st and 2nd stringers have been getting torched lately? :lol

Btw, nice try blowing smoke up everybody's ass. Maybe Chumpdumper will give you a promotion to 2nd string. :lol

Just quit it already. Do you honestly think ANY of those coaches have given Bonbon 20+ minutes every game against the worst possible team matchup-wise for him when they had a legitimate 7 foot defensive juggernaut (in comparision terms to Bonner at least) on the bench? (No need to answer this rhetorical question whose answer is obvious).

nobody is really sucking on Pop.

Your hatred of Pop though is fucking hilarious.

lmao "7 foot defensive juggernaut"

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Most everyone on here knew Bonner would not continue shooting at that earlier pace. Pop should have also known this. Defenses guard closer and don't give the easy open looks that Bonner sees during the regular season.

How EXACTLY did you or anyone else know that a guy who shot greater than 45% from the 3 for most of the season was going to shoot around 31 or 32 in the Playoffs. Pop is supposed to be clairvoyant?

Ok, if Pop is such a bad coach, then why was the team playing so well in the early part of the regular season? Is Bonner so old that he can't maintain pace an entire season? The better perimeter defense displayed on Bonner is supposed to open up greater lanes for the penetrators (TP and Manu and to some degree RJ - if he had been in the game) but those that are supposed to either didn't capitalize or were too hurt to. Bonner is a ROLE player. Does it make sense to blame his lack of defense during the 15-20 minutes he's in the game as the cause for the Spurs demise. McDyess played EXCELLENT defense on Randolph IMO, Zach just played BETTER offense. Nothing against McDyess - he just didn't get it done. We can all speculate that if we had Channing Frye or Thompson or Josh Smith that the outcome would've been different but the Spurs DIDN'T HAVE those guys. Pop played the guys he had. On top of that, when the starting SF (that's really the only one you have) isn't good enough to be on the floor in the Playoffs, what should've been Pop's move then? Danny Green? Move your injured and undersized for the position SG to SF and put in another undersized player at SG?

We all want to criticize Pop for not seeing what seems to be obvious after the fact but I just don't agree...

[TJastal]

I don't claim to be some "master basketball theorist", I was just mentioning my experience in the past (and now) to quantify my position. I noticed you conveniently left off your credentials...although I have noticed there are a few people on here claiming to be Spurs FO personnel and the like and there really is no way to verify what I'm stating or what you would claim.

Regardless of that, I don't think there's any need for name calling on here. I don't know you nor do I need to make fun of your position (or lack thereof) to get my point across.

Which is - I think Pop is one of the better coaches in the league. We're always comparing and rank ordering players - I would put Pop in the top 5 coaches in the league.

My quantification - 1st of all would be his players. At just about every position, he has guys who have limitations unlike many other teams. If anyone were completely honest and were willing to admit, there isn't a player on the Spurs who played last year that is top 5 at their position. PGs - Paul, D Will, Nash, Rose, Rondo are all better than TP last year and there are several "rating" sites that feel the same. You may argue that TP is better than Nash or Rondo - I disagree.

SG - Wade, Kobe, Joe Johnson, Ray Allen and Monta Ellis are all thought to be better than Manu by many "experts" and I don't disagree. Again, you can argue back and forth about the 4th or 5th best guy but one thing is certain, an INJURED Manu isn't anywhere on this list.

SF, PF and C - no need to even go there for the rest of the Spurs. TD is nowhere near where he used to be.

With that group of guys, Pop got the team to the best record in the West.

And, in the playoffs, Pop had an injured Manu, a top 7 or 8 PG in the league who played like a top 20 PG and who else? TD?

Think about that. Is is REALLY realistic to think that Erik Spoelstra or Rick Carlisle would've gotten more out of the team than Pop (in the regular season OR playoffs)? Who on the team has the capability to make shots like Dirk or finish like Miami's Big 3? As much as I don't like the Mavs, Dirk had a game where he missed 3 shots all game (went 31 for 34 or something ridiculous like that) in which they barely won. Who on the Spurs last year was capable of that performance.

Plain and simple, the Spurs don't have the players.


What the heck do qualifications and player personnel have to do with the simple fact that any half-witted numbskull should have been able to see that Bonner was a major liability against the grizz frontline and should have been sitting his ass on the bench in favor of a real 7 footer?

And what does that say about Pop that it took him to the 4th friggin game to finally see what every numbskull with at least a b&w 13 inch tv screen could figure out after watching for 5 minutes? Huh, 3rd string?

And btw 3rd string, I'd take a gimpy Manu over any of those players you mentioned (except Wade), the guy almost singlehandedly carried the team past the grizz. Wasn't his fault Duncan was exhausted from having to defend the paint alone (again, thanks POP) and Parker couldn't handle the basketball without making sloppy turnovers.

[TJastal]

How EXACTLY did you or anyone else know that a guy who shot greater than 45% from the 3 for most of the season was going to shoot around 31 or 32 in the Playoffs. Pop is supposed to be clairvoyant?

Ok, if Pop is such a bad coach, then why was the team playing so well in the early part of the regular season? Is Bonner so old that he can't maintain pace an entire season? The better perimeter defense displayed on Bonner is supposed to open up greater lanes for the penetrators (TP and Manu and to some degree RJ - if he had been in the game) but those that are supposed to either didn't capitalize or were too hurt to. Bonner is a ROLE player. Does it make sense to blame his lack of defense during the 15-20 minutes he's in the game as the cause for the Spurs demise. McDyess played EXCELLENT defense on Randolph IMO, Zach just played BETTER offense. Nothing against McDyess - he just didn't get it done. We can all speculate that if we had Channing Frye or Thompson or Josh Smith that the outcome would've been different but the Spurs DIDN'T HAVE those guys. Pop played the guys he had. On top of that, when the starting SF (that's really the only one you have) isn't good enough to be on the floor in the Playoffs, what should've been Pop's move then? Danny Green? Move your injured and undersized for the position SG to SF and put in another undersized player at SG?

We all want to criticize Pop for not seeing what seems to be obvious after the fact but I just don't agree...

Did you just become a spurs fan yesterday? Check Matt Bonner's past playoff failures and get back to us, 3rd string.

:lol

[Blake]

What the heck do qualifications and player personnel have to do with the simple fact that any half-witted numbskull should have been able to see that Bonner was a major liability against the grizz frontline and should have been sitting his ass on the bench in favor of a real 7 footer?

And what does that say about Pop that it took him to the 4th friggin game to finally see what every numbskull with at least a b&w 13 inch tv screen could figure out after watching for 5 minutes? Huh, 3rd string?


only numbskulls would think that the Spurs would have won the series if only Splitter had played instead of Bonner.

[Blake]

Did you just become a spurs fan yesterday? Check Matt Bonner's past playoff failures and get back to us, 3rd string.

:lol

What exactly are Bonner's playoff failures?

[TJastal]

only numbskulls would think that the Spurs would have won the series if only Splitter had played instead of Bonner.

TBH, damn near anyone instead of Bonner would have probably helped. Having a legit mobile 7-footer like Splitter would have made it alot more difficult for the grizz to dominate the paint like they did.

Nobody's saying the spurs would have won the series, but they surely would have made it more competitive and perhaps made it to a 7th game.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

What the heck do qualifications and player personnel have to do with the simple fact that any half-witted numbskull should have been able to see that Bonner was a major liability against the grizz frontline and should have been sitting his ass on the bench in favor of a real 7 footer?

And what does that say about Pop that it took him to the 4th friggin game to finally see what every numbskull with at least a b&w 13 inch tv screen could figure out after watching for 5 minutes? Huh, 3rd string?

And btw 3rd string, I'd take a gimpy Manu over any of those players you mentioned, the guy almost singlehandedly carried the team past the grizz. Wasn't his fault Duncan was exhausted from having to defend the paint alone (again, thanks POP) and Parker couldn't handle the basketball without making sloppy turnovers.

Bonner has ALWAYS been a liability on defense. That's nothing new. Playing him in the playoffs was an attempt to do two things - see if he could continue to make 3s at somewhat close to the same rate he had earlier (which he didn't) AND to open up the lane for his penetrators to score (which they didn't). Is the latter Bonner's fault? Is it Pops?

You mention TD was too exhausted and that was Pops fault? TD played less mins per game this season than he ever had - should he have played even less? If so, who are you going to replace him with - Splitter? Perhaps that was a risk he might have elected to take had Splitter not been injured 90% of training camp.

Again, I've stated in many previous posts that you work on individual skills in the OFF and PRE season. Splitter had no off or pre season due to injury and sadly it looks like he won't get another one this yr w/ the lockout - but that's another discussion.

Let's say Pop is a race car driver. The car is battery powered (electric) and the battery has 5 cells. Those cells are PG, SG, SF, PF and C. And he starts w/ a fully charged battery to begin the season. Midway through the season, he's in 1st place and has managed to allow the PF/C cells to be rotated through various personnel to keep everyone in that cell as fresh as possible. The TD portion of the cell (which is the main portion) is playing a career low mpg and the Bonner portion (a backup portion) is producing a career and team high 3pt %. The Blair portion of the cell shows promise in some offensive areas but it woefully undersized defensively. The PG and SG cells are producing as always. The SF cell has never really been all that strong since the year before and you only have 1 guy who possesses the size, strength and skillset to work in the SF cell but he still manages to produce a career best 3pt % as well.

However, toward the end of the racing season, his SG cell is badly injured. His PG cell, which is healthy as far as he can tell, just doesn't produce like it did earlier. His PF and C cells, which were never all that strong to begin with are showing their age. The Bonner part of that cell doesn't score w/ near the efficiency that it should, the McDyess of that cell is old and less explosive both on offense and defense, the TD of that cell is exhausted (as you mention) and the Splitter of that cell shows promise but Pop just hasn't had enough time to evaluate and trust Splitter to do what is necessary. The Blair portion is still undersized. Pop is forced to remove the SF cell altogether and attempt to utilize different parts of the SG cell in its place.

Rock and a hard place for Pop.

I, for the life of me, can't understand why ANYONE would look at the specific Bonner part of the PF cell and blame it for ALL the woes of the team and completely disregard the malfunctions of the rest of the battery. Nor do I understand blaming the driver for NOT seeing the malfunctions of the PG, SG, SF and portions of the PF/C cells BEFORE they happened.

And as a far as 3rd string - I'm proud to have played for a D1 program. What program did you play for again?

[TJastal]

Bonner has ALWAYS been a liability on defense. That's nothing new. Playing him in the playoffs was an attempt to do two things - see if he could continue to make 3s at somewhat close to the same rate he had earlier (which he didn't) AND to open up the lane for his penetrators to score (which they didn't). Is the latter Bonner's fault? Is it Pops?

You mention TD was too exhausted and that was Pops fault? TD played less mins per game this season than he ever had - should he have played even less? If so, who are you going to replace him with - Splitter? Perhaps that was a risk he might have elected to take had Splitter not been injured 90% of training camp.

Again, I've stated in many previous posts that you work on individual skills in the OFF and PRE season. Splitter had no off or pre season due to injury and sadly it looks like he won't get another one this yr w/ the lockout - but that's another discussion.

Let's say Pop is a race car driver. The car is battery powered (electric) and the battery has 5 cells. Those cells are PG, SG, SF, PF and C. And he starts w/ a fully charged battery to begin the season. Midway through the season, he's in 1st place and has managed to allow the PF/C cells to be rotated through various personnel to keep everyone in that cell as fresh as possible. The TD cell is playing a career low mpg and the Bonner cell is producing a career and team high 3pt %. The PG and SG cells are producing as always. The SF cell has never really been all that strong since the year before and you only have 1 guy who possesses the size, strength and skillset to work in the SF cell but he still manages. Toward the end of the racing season, his SG cell is badly injured. His PG cell, which is healthy as far as he can tell, just doesn't produce like it did earlier. His PF and C cells, which were never all that strong to begin with are showing their age. The Bonner part of that cell doesn't score w/ near the efficiency that it should, the McDyess of that cell is old and less explosive both on offense and defense, the TD of that cell is exhausted (as you mention) and the Splitter of that cell shows promise but Pop just hasn't had enough time to evaluate and trust Splitter to do what is necessary.

Rock and a hard place for Pop.

But I can't, for the life of me, understand why ANYONE would look at the specific Bonner part of the PF cell and blame it for ALL the woes of the team and completely disregard the malfunctions of the rest of the batter.

And as a far as 3rd string - I'm proud to have played for a D1 program. What program did you play for again?

This is really simple logic, 3rd string. This is the last time I am going to explain this to you, so pay attention.

If Splitter was injured, then I agree Pop was between a rock and a hard place. But he wasn't injured. The "missed training camp" excuse doesn't fly. He was still at the practices, paying attention & soaking it all in plus the spurs have more than enough practices during the season for him to catch up. Pop chose not to integrate him for some unknown reason. He had all year to get him integrated into the rotation. So just STFU and quit using that as an excuse. It's asinine at best.

And isn't it obvious that Pop basically admitted to the world he royally fucked up with his desperation move of tossing Splitter into the fire in game 4? (that some of us knew was bound to happen, except you apparently) Why can't you see this? Just pathetic coaching tbh.

[Blake]

TBH, damn near anyone instead of Bonner would have probably helped. Having a legit mobile 7-footer like Splitter would have made it alot more difficult for the grizz to dominate the paint like they did.

lol legit


Nobody's saying the spurs would have won the series, but they surely would have made it more competitive and perhaps made it to a 7th game.

so you agree that the Spurs probably wouldn't have won the series any way.

thanks.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

This is really simple logic, 3rd string. This is the last time I am going to explain this to you, so pay attention.

If Splitter was injured, then I agree Pop was between a rock and a hard place. But he wasn't injured. The "missed training camp" excuse doesn't fly. He was still at the practices, paying attention & soaking it all in plus the spurs have more than enough practices during the season for him to catch up. Pop chose not to integrate him for some unknown reason. He had all year to get him integrated into the rotation. So just STFU and quit using that as an excuse. It's asinine at best.

And isn't it obvious that Pop basically admitted to the world he royally fucked up with his desperation move of tossing Splitter into the fire in game 4? (that some of us knew was bound to happen, except you apparently) Why can't you see this? Just pathetic coaching tbh.

Pop "throwing" Splitter in at the last minute was desperation. What he didn't say - that you obviously didn't pick up on - was that he shoulda left Splitter on the bench and either opted for Blair or staying w/ Bonner.

I guess your argument is that Splitter should've gotten a better "look" earlier so that when the playoffs rolled around, he'd be ready.

Let me let you in on a lil something since it seems you lack the ability to understand what goes on during the NBA season...

Go back and look at the Spurs schedule. Here - I'll help you.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/schedule/

They played 15 games a month. That's one every other day. When exactly is Pop supposed to have time to work w/ Splitter alone on his front court skills? When is he supposed to see how well the rest of the team plays w/ him? If you had played ball any time during your life (any ball, football, basketball, baseball, field hockey, whatever) you would know that MOST of the minutes in practice goes to the starters. Not all but MOST. The 29 other NBA coaches were doing that as well as Pop. Why, because once you play one game, you're forced to start thinking about the next one almost immediately.

So, Mr Never Played, you can blog in a manner that seems informative, but if you had any experience, you would know better. Since you don't then we'll all just have to continue to suffer through your opinion...

[Interrohater]

Guys, give TJastal some credit (what?!). Seriously, he's spot on. Bonner sucks, Splitter sucks less. Inexperienced defensive minded 7 footer clogging the lane, or proven playoff choker who hangs around the three point line? Timmy no longer demands a double team and he still has a nice jumpshot, so why do we need to space the floor with a three point shooter? If every point counts in a playoff game, I'd rather someone be closer to the basket where the percentages are higher. Give me a Splitter every day of the week. He represents everything that this franchise has been built on. He's big, plays defense and is scrappy. I'M NOT CALLING HIM AN ALL-STAR or a hall-of-fame-r, but I am saying that his style of play is what we need. Bonner is a failed experiment that has lasted way too long and has been given way too much leeway.

I'd much rather have a guy shooting 50% at close range for two points than a guy who shoots distance at 40%. Why? Because that's what wins playoff games! We used to go inside out, now we're going outside in and it doesn't work.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Guys, give TJastal some credit (what?!). Seriously, he's spot on. Bonner sucks, Splitter sucks less. Inexperienced defensive minded 7 footer clogging the lane, or proven playoff choker who hangs around the three point line? Timmy no longer demands a double team and he still has a nice jumpshot, so why do we need to space the floor with a three point shooter? If every point counts in a playoff game, I'd rather someone be closer to the basket where the percentages are higher. Give me a Splitter every day of the week. He represents everything that this franchise has been built on. He's big, plays defense and is scrappy. I'M NOT CALLING HIM AN ALL-STAR or a hall-of-fame-r, but I am saying that his style of play is what we need. Bonner is a failed experiment that has lasted way too long and has been given way too much leeway.

I'd much rather have a guy shooting 50% at close range for two points than a guy who shoots distance at 40%. Why? Because that's what wins playoff games! We used to go inside out, now we're going outside in and it doesn't work.

Much better argument - you're obviously a lot better at this than jastal.

But, while I think your argument is smart, the #s don't add up. If you have a player who shoots 4/10 from 3, that's 12 points. If another player shoots 5/10 from 2, that's 10 points. In order to match a 40% 3 pt shooter, you need to shoot 60% from 2 pt land.

But, your logic about defense does make sense.

Let me ask you this - you're a coach and your team is DISTINCTLY 3 pt shooting. You lead the league in 3 pt attempts, 3pters made and are among the tops in 3 pt %. Why, during the playoffs, do you abandon that strategy, take your 3 pt shooters out an take on an inside-out type game?

[Interrohater]

Pop "throwing" Splitter in at the last minute was desperation. What he didn't say - that you obviously didn't pick up on - was that he shoulda left Splitter on the bench and either opted for Blair or staying w/ Bonner.
Desperation is exactly right. The mere fact that he put Splitter in the fourth game was a blatant admission that he screwed up. What you're saying is that since it was desperation, Pop had already given up by throwing in his worst big? By throwing in his scrub player? That can't be right. Pop finally conceded the fact that the others weren't matching up well and he needed a bigger defensive presence. Blair and Bonner were getting abused like something that gets abused a lot. There's no rational reason for anybody to think that they should have stayed in the game.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Desperation is exactly right. The mere fact that he put Splitter in the fourth game was a blatant admission that he screwed up. What you're saying is that since it was desperation, Pop had already given up by throwing in his worst big? By throwing in his scrub player? That can't be right. Pop finally conceded the fact that the others weren't matching up well and he needed a bigger defensive presence. Blair and Bonner were getting abused like something that gets abused a lot. There's no rational reason for anybody to think that they should have stayed in the game.

What we're all debating is when a coach should notice - in real time - when the horse he rode in on is no longer the horse he needs to continue to ride. When should baseball managers bench a player who is slumping but earlier in the season was hitting .400? When does the QB who is OK by all other means throws 3 or 4 INTs in a game?

It's easy to say AFTER the season that a different timing should have been utilized...

[Interrohater]

Much better argument - you're obviously a lot better at this than jastal.

But, while I think your argument is smart, the #s don't add up. If you have a player who shoots 4/10 from 3, that's 12 points. If another player shoots 5/10 from 2, that's 10 points. In order to match a 40% 3 pt shooter, you need to shoot 60% from 2 pt land.

But, your logic about defense does make sense.
I knew that you would say this, but the numbers DO add up. Matt Bonner shoots .7 free throws per game because nobody is going to foul him. Tiago Splitter, in his ridiculously low MPG shoots 2.3 free throws at about half the minutes. The numbers do add up.

[Interrohater]

What we're all debating is when a coach should notice - in real time - when the horse he rode in on is no longer the horse he needs to continue to ride. When should baseball managers bench a player who is slumping but earlier in the season was hitting .400? When does the QB who is OK by all other means throws 3 or 4 INTs in a game?

It's easy to say AFTER the season that a different timing should have been utilized...
The problem with that, though, is that if said player slumps at the same time every year, then maybe you should be prepared to make a change as soon as you see the first signs of that happening again. You're right, it is easy to say after the fact. However, I promise you my second born child if I wasn't screaming at the TV in the first game to get Bonner the hell out and put Splitter in.

[TJastal]

Pop "throwing" Splitter in at the last minute was desperation. What he didn't say - that you obviously didn't pick up on - was that he shoulda left Splitter on the bench and either opted for Blair or staying w/ Bonner.

I guess your argument is that Splitter should've gotten a better "look" earlier so that when the playoffs rolled around, he'd be ready.

Let me let you in on a lil something since it seems you lack the ability to understand what goes on during the NBA season...

Go back and look at the Spurs schedule. Here - I'll help you.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/schedule/

They played 15 games a month. That's one every other day. When exactly is Pop supposed to have time to work w/ Splitter alone on his front court skills? When is he supposed to see how well the rest of the team plays w/ him? If you had played ball any time during your life (any ball, football, basketball, baseball, field hockey, whatever) you would know that MOST of the minutes in practice goes to the starters. Not all but MOST. The 31 other NBA coaches were doing that as well as Pop. Why, because once you play one game, you're forced to start thinking about the next one almost immediately.

So, Mr Never Played, you can blog in a manner that seems informative, but if you had any experience, you would know better. Since you don't then we'll all just have to continue to suffer through your opinion...

Apparently you have no idea, but the spurs actually do practice often during the season, anytime they have 2 days in between games. Which happens quite often, so there's really no excuse why Pop could not get Splitter into the rotation.

[TJastal]

Bonner is a failed experiment that has lasted way too long and has been given way too much leeway.

I'd much rather have a guy shooting 50% at close range for two points than a guy who shoots distance at 40%. Why? Because that's what wins playoff games! We used to go inside out, now we're going outside in and it doesn't work.

This.

[TJastal]

Desperation is exactly right. The mere fact that he put Splitter in the fourth game was a blatant admission that he screwed up. What you're saying is that since it was desperation, Pop had already given up by throwing in his worst big? By throwing in his scrub player? That can't be right. Pop finally conceded the fact that the others weren't matching up well and he needed a bigger defensive presence. Blair and Bonner were getting abused like something that gets abused a lot. There's no rational reason for anybody to think that they should have stayed in the game.

And yet Pop CONTINUED to give his favorite ginger 20 minutes a game, even after Splitter was heaved into the fire. He just couldn't admit that Bonner was a bad matchup and he had made a mistake and so drove the team the rest of the way off the cliff trying to mask his own stupidity! :flipoff

It's as if Pop thought he could fool everybody into thinking that his decision to throw a guy into a heated playoff battle who had barely seen a handful of meaningful minutes all year long was not reeking of desperation. Well tbh he did fool some in here, obviously.

Just shows clearly how Pop was more concerned about trying to preserve his own reputation and dignity than the welfare of his team.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Apparently you have no idea, but the spurs actually do practice often during the season, anytime they have 2 days in between games. Which happens quite often, so there's really no excuse why Pop could not get Splitter into the rotation.

You have been replaced by hater - the force is much stronger w/ him. But that's to be expected since you obviously don't have a shred of college (probably not even HS) ball of any sort to speak of as we all notice how you don't respond when questioned about your experience.

In your favor, I will state that given your obvious lack of experience, you do sometimes present a fairly believable and well thought out argument.

This just isn't one of those times...

[Tyrone Jenkins]

The problem with that, though, is that if said player slumps at the same time every year, then maybe you should be prepared to make a change as soon as you see the first signs of that happening again. You're right, it is easy to say after the fact. However, I promise you my second born child if I wasn't screaming at the TV in the first game to get Bonner the hell out and put Splitter in.

VERY good point.

However, I don't think a switch that late in the season was warranted. Had it been made around mid season (like the replacement of Blair) then I would've been all for it. TBH, I was actually hoping they would've opted for Splitter instead of McDyess but I'm sure that goes back to Pop's comfort level.

[TJastal]

You have been replaced by hater - the force is much stronger w/ him. But that's to be expected since you obviously don't have a shred of college (probably not even HS) ball of any sort to speak of as we all notice how you don't respond when questioned about your experience.

In your favor, I will state that given your obvious lack of experience, you do sometimes present a fairly believable and well thought out argument.

This just isn't one of those times...

And given your obvious lack of a brain, it's amazing you can even use a computer.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Let me be completely honest here.

I think Splitter is part of the future of this team. He won't replace Duncan fully (no one ever will probably) but he looks like he might just be a 15/8 guy w/ some defensive skill. Combine him w/ a scoring PF like LeMarcus Aldridge, Josh Smith or someone of that nature, and the front court is pretty decent.

Bonner is a one trick pony. If he's shooting well, the trick is working. If not, then he sits in favor of someone else - I'm just not convinced that it's reasonable to think that Bonner would fade as much as he did (even though he always seems to fade a little it's NEVER been to that extent).

I don't think ANY of Bonner's poor play nor the fact that Splitter wasn't incorporated earlier makes as much a difference as the dropoff in production from TP and RJ. We talk about Bonner like he's a starter or something...

Moving forward, I look forward to Splitter being the part of the Spurs future frontcourt and think that he should've been given the opportunity far sooner last year. I think that Leonard should start in favor of RJ. I think that Anderson or Butler (whomever shows more promise in whatever off-season occurs) should start and Manu play the 6th man role. I think that both the undersized Neal and Blair should be traded in favor of a defensive C type (think Perkins type) who is a complement to Splitter's game and not the other way around. Finally, I think that TP needs to step up and be the leader of this team. Not just the PG but the leader - someone who is more vocal in his encouragement and scolding, who takes responsibility more and who isn't afraid to speak his mind about the team and/or coach (he did that earlier this year and then backpeddled - no backpeddle was necessary).

Just my $0.02

[Tyrone Jenkins]

And given your obvious lack of a brain, it's amazing you can even use a computer.

LOL perhaps not but at least I have played and can still play the game. You shy away from even mentioning any experience you have in favor of insults and cute smiley faces...

Are you like 14 years old? When you grow up and aren't cut from the JV team, I would bet your arguments would be more meaningful.

That might be a great day (for all of us).

[Interrohater]

Let me be completely honest here.

I think Splitter is part of the future of this team. He won't replace Duncan fully (no one ever will probably) but he looks like he might just be a 15/8 guy w/ some defensive skill. Combine him w/ a scoring PF like LeMarcus Aldridge, Josh Smith or someone of that nature, and the front court is pretty decent.

Bonner is a one trick pony. If he's shooting well, the trick is working. If not, then he sits in favor of someone else - I'm just not convinced that it's reasonable to think that Bonner would fade as much as he did (even though he always seems to fade a little it's NEVER been to that extent).

Moving forward, I look forward to Splitter being the part of the Spurs future frontcourt and think that he should've been given the opportunity far sooner last year. I think that Leonard should start in favor of RJ. I think that Anderson or Butler (whomever shows more promise in whatever off-season occurs) should start and Manu play the 6th man role. I think that both the undersized Neal and Blair should be traded in favor of a defensive C type (think Perkins type) who is a complement to Splitter's game and not the other way around. Finally, I think that TP needs to step up and be the leader of this team. Not just the PG but the leader - someone who is more vocal in his encouragement and scolding, who takes responsibility more and who isn't afraid to speak his mind about the team and/or coach (he did that earlier this year and then backpeddled - no backpeddle was necessary).

Just my $0.02
I agree with all of that, sans the trade of Neal. We truly need an ice cold shooter like him in the lineup. I read on this forum that Neal played PG overseas and I think he would be the perfect veteran backup if he can. Think Derek Fisher, the quiet deadly floor manager that every team needs. Plus, his contract is so small that we can keep him for peanuts. I'd be okay with trading Blair, but I'm not sure how many other teams out there can see him as an asset enough to trade away a larger player.

[purist]

So I'm guessing you and Blake are the 3rd string of the popsucker crew? Since the 1st and 2nd stringers have been getting torched lately? :lol

Btw, nice try blowing smoke up everybody's ass. Maybe Chumpdumper will give you a promotion to 2nd string. :lol

Just quit it already. Do you honestly think ANY of those coaches have given Bonbon 20+ minutes every game against the worst possible team matchup-wise for him when they had a legitimate 7 foot defensive juggernaut (in comparision terms to Bonner at least) on the bench? (No need to answer this rhetorical question whose answer is obvious).

i don't care:wakeup:wakeup

[pgardn]

Agree with T. Jenkins.

We dont have the horses up front. Aint a coach in the NBA that could get this team a championship. We are a very fundamentally solid team with fairly glaring athletic weaknesses up front. I dont care when the wins came, this team getting 60 wins was amazing. And there is no a doubt in my mind we could (not would) have beat the Grizz with a healthy Ginobili. But a championship was not and is not likely unless a lot of other teams break down. We just dont have the man power, and we dont have many options to get the players we need up front. People think a Bball team can stay a serious contender for 12 solid years in this NBA world need to constantly switch allegiances. It will make your sports entertainment life much easier but extraordinarily shallow.

Bunch of spoiled azz fans...

[TJastal]

i don't care:wakeup:wakeup

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/3535/headinthesand.jpg

[TJastal]

Agree with T. Jenkins.

We dont have the horses up front. Aint a coach in the NBA that could get this team a championship. We are a very fundamentally solid team with fairly glaring athletic weaknesses up front. I dont care when the wins came, this team getting 60 wins was amazing. And there is no a doubt in my mind we could (not would) have beat the Grizz with a healthy Ginobili. But a championship was not and is not likely unless a lot of other teams break down. We just dont have the man power, and we dont have many options to get the players we need up front. People think a Bball team can stay a serious contender for 12 solid years in this NBA world need to constantly switch allegiances. It will make your sports entertainment life much easier but extraordinarily shallow.

Bunch of spoiled azz fans...

It doesn't help to have horses up front when Pop refuses to put them in the game. And you're saying Splitter getting all of Bonner's minutes last year wouldn't have made a difference?

[pgardn]

It doesn't help to have horses up front when Pop refuses to put them in the game. And you're saying Splitter getting all of Bonner's minutes last year wouldn't have made a difference?

You are dreaming if you think Tiago gets us a championship last year. And if you think Tiago gives us one this year (if we actually have games) you are hallucinating.

I would love to be dead wrong.

[024]

i had a dream that jefferson was off the team. i was so happy. now reality hits that he will probably start again next season.

[TJastal]

You are dreaming if you think Tiago gets us a championship last year. And if you think Tiago gives us one this year (if we actually have games) you are hallucinating.

I would love to be dead wrong.

Splitter's defense in the paint would have helped slow down Gasol & Randolph, and also helped Tim Duncan not to wear down so quick like he did. So he could have actually contributed some offense. From there, many things might have fallen into place. There are no guarantees and I don't recall ever saying it was a guaranteed championship. But I think the spurs would have gotten furthur into the playoffs, possibly into the 2nd round or WCF.

[Interrohater]

i had a dream that jefferson was off the team. i was so happy. now reality hits that he will probably start again next season.
Great dream... :depressed

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Splitter's defense in the paint would have helped slow down Gasol & Randolph, and also helped Tim Duncan not to wear down so quick like he did. So he could have actually contributed some offense. From there, many things might have fallen into place. There are no guarantees and I don't recall ever saying it was a guaranteed championship. But I think the spurs would have gotten furthur into the playoffs, possibly into the 2nd round or WCF.

You actually may be right - the ONE thing that is highly probable is that had Splitter played, that experience would've carried over into this year and the team would be the better for it.

Aside from that, however, the Spurs are not built to win a championship this upcoming year, the year after that and probably the year after that. They need, quite simply, a BETTER frontcourt than Splitter, Blair, Richards, Lorbek, Bertans or whomever they can draft from picking somewhere in the late teens to early 20s. They either need to miss the playoffs and get VERY lucky in the lottery to draft in the top 5 (like the year they got TD) or trade some fairly valuable pieces for a stud front court type of player.

Make no mistake - there are some that are available (Josh Smith probably, etc.) that aren't being highly publicized. It's just a matter of pulling the trigger.

[TD 21]

If anyone were completely honest and were willing to admit, there isn't a player on the Spurs who played last year that is top 5 at their position. PGs - Paul, D Will, Nash, Rose, Rondo are all better than TP last year and there are several "rating" sites that feel the same. You may argue that TP is better than Nash or Rondo - I disagree.

SG - Wade, Kobe, Joe Johnson, Ray Allen and Monta Ellis are all thought to be better than Manu by many "experts" and I don't disagree. Again, you can argue back and forth about the 4th or 5th best guy but one thing is certain, an INJURED Manu isn't anywhere on this list.

SF, PF and C - no need to even go there for the rest of the Spurs. TD is nowhere near where he used to be.

With that group of guys, Pop got the team to the best record in the West.

And, in the playoffs, Pop had an injured Manu, a top 7 or 8 PG in the league who played like a top 20 PG and who else? TD?

Think about that. Is is REALLY realistic to think that Erik Spoelstra or Rick Carlisle would've gotten more out of the team than Pop (in the regular season OR playoffs)? Who on the team has the capability to make shots like Dirk or finish like Miami's Big 3? As much as I don't like the Mavs, Dirk had a game where he missed 3 shots all game (went 31 for 34 or something ridiculous like that) in which they barely won. Who on the Spurs last year was capable of that performance.

Plain and simple, the Spurs don't have the players.

Duncan is the second best C in the league. Amongst C's, only Howard had a better PER. The only other C that's close to Duncan is Bynum. But he has to show he can consistently play at the level he did during the second half of last season before I'd consider giving him the nod.

Ginobili is the third best SG in the league. Amongst SG's, only Wade and Bryant had a better PER. The only other SG that was even close was Martin. But, for as efficient a scorer as he is, he's a one dimensional player.

Parker is arguably a top five PG, but definitely no worse than top seven. Amongst PG's, he finished sixth in PER (ahead of Rondo, though he supposedly played much of the season with an assortment of nagging injuries).

Overall, they ranked 14th, 17th and 27th. Only the Lakers had a trio that ranked higher and the Heat were the only other team even close. I'm not saying Pop didn't have a flawed roster to work with (don't forget though, he had a big hand in the composition of the roster), but don't act like he didn't have high end talent to work with. For the first time in his career, he didn't have a top ten player, but he still had two top twenty and three top thirty players.

[Blake]

I'm not saying Pop didn't have a flawed roster to work with (don't forget though, he had a big hand in the composition of the roster), but don't act like he didn't have high end talent to work with. For the first time in his career, he didn't have a top ten player, but he still had two top twenty and three top thirty players.

I wonder how many championships have been won with two top twenty and three top thirty players.

[The Truth #6]

I still greatly appreciate Pop, even though he does some things year after year that are aggravating. But you need at least one hall of fame player in their prime to win a championship, and the Spurs have passed that moment in time a while ago. So I can make peace with that, but I still get annoyed when Pop undervelops a talented young player every year, only to then get desperate and throw them into a playoff game when we're about to get eleminated.

Splitter obviously should have played more, much more, during the regular season. And for not doing that Pop looks kind of stupid. But that doesn't make him a horrible coach.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Duncan is the second best C in the league. Amongst C's, only Howard had a better PER. The only other C that's close to Duncan is Bynum. But he has to show he can consistently play at the level he did during the second half of last season before I'd consider giving him the nod.

Ginobili is the third best SG in the league. Amongst SG's, only Wade and Bryant had a better PER. The only other SG that was even close was Martin. But, for as efficient a scorer as he is, he's a one dimensional player.

Parker is arguably a top five PG, but definitely no worse than top seven. Amongst PG's, he finished sixth in PER (ahead of Rondo, though he supposedly played much of the season with an assortment of nagging injuries).

Overall, they ranked 14th, 17th and 27th. Only the Lakers had a trio that ranked higher and the Heat were the only other team even close. I'm not saying Pop didn't have a flawed roster to work with (don't forget though, he had a big hand in the composition of the roster), but don't act like he didn't have high end talent to work with. For the first time in his career, he didn't have a top ten player, but he still had two top twenty and three top thirty players.

Excellent analysis.

But TD's PER (21.9 according to basketball-reference) was the lowest its been ever - even lower than his rookie year. So was his offreb%, defreb% and just about every other per 36 minute stat available. The telltale one is his offensive win shares (down to 3.7).

When you get a little more in-depth, TD was outplayed by Chandler, M Gasol, Nene, Howard and Bynum was close (keep in mind that TD was moved to PF and Blair moved to C at times).

[TJastal]

I still greatly appreciate Pop, even though he does some things year after year that are aggravating. But you need at least one hall of fame player in their prime to win a championship, and the Spurs have passed that moment in time a while ago. So I can make peace with that, but I still get annoyed when Pop undervelops a talented young player every year, only to then get desperate and throw them into a playoff game when we're about to get eleminated.

Splitter obviously should have played more, much more, during the regular season. And for not doing that Pop looks kind of stupid. But that doesn't make him a horrible coach.

Did the mavs have HOF'r in his prime?

Nowitzki is 33 years old and heading into his 14th season. Marion is also 33 heading into his 12th season. Jason Kidd is older than anyone on either team at 38 and heading into his 20th season. Terry is 33 as well I think.

So who was this masked avenger in his prime, who helped the mavs through one of the toughest roads to the finals ever?

[Blake]

Did the mavs have HOF'r in his prime?

Nowitzki is 33 years old and heading into his 14th season. Marion is also 33 heading into his 12th season. Jason Kidd is older than anyone on either team at 38 and heading into his 20th season. Terry is 33 as well I think.

So who was this masked avenger in his prime, who helped the mavs through one of the toughest roads to the finals ever?

Nowitzki is in his prime. Youre rather stupid for thinking otherwise.

[TJastal]

Nowitzki is in his prime. Youre rather stupid for thinking otherwise.

He's the same age as Manu Ginobili. And played almost 300+ more nba games. You're serious?

[Cane]

Dirk's on the tail-end of his prime but yea he's still in it like Karl Malone and Hakeem were in their 30's. Dirk was a MVP candidate that outperformed stars on both sides of 30 throughout the reg season and playoffs.

Blake's right - you're rather stupid for thinking otherwise.

[Ginobilly]

Dirk's on the tail-end of his prime but yea he's still in it like Karl Malone and Hakeem were in their 30's. Dirk was a MVP candidate that outperformed stars on both sides of 30 throughout the reg season and playoffs.

Blake's right - you're rather stupid for thinking otherwise.

I wouldn't say Dirk is in his physical prime (18-30 years old) but I think it's his skilled game that allows him to slow down the game more that any other player(Dirk is slow as fuck on his drives and everything, It's his deadly shooting skill that opens up the rest of his slow ass game). The reason the Mavs won the championship is because Barea, Terry, Kidd, Chandler, and Marion all stepped up big in the playoffs. And meanwhile on the Spurs, nobody stepped up except a broken down Manu.

[hater]

Both are correct.

Dirk is still in his prime, and mavs don't win without Chandler + Barea.

[TJastal]

I wouldn't say Dirk is in his physical prime (18-30 years old) but I think it's his skilled game that allows him to slow down the game more that any other player(Dirk is slow as fuck on his drives and everything, It's his deadly shooting skill that opens up the rest of his slow ass game). The reason the Mavs won the championship is because Barea, Terry, Kidd, Chandler, and Marion all stepped up big in the playoffs. And meanwhile on the Spurs, nobody stepped up except a broken down Manu.

The reason Dallas was able to win a championship was because the mavs were smart enough to realize Dirk needed to be paired with an athletic young defensive center in his prime (28-29 years old) exactly BECAUSE DIRK IS NOWHERE NEAR HIS. And the result of this was Dirk was able to focus even more of his energy on shooting and closing out games.

Yet almost all of Dirk's #'s were actually better last year. And his rebounding numbers have been in steady decline since 2002, where he topped out at 10.0. Sure he's still putting up solid scoring numbers but that doesn't mean he's in his prime by any stretch.

LMAO at tweedle dee and tweedle dum thinking he is in his prime. :rollin

[TJastal]

Kobe turns 33 in August. Will he still be in his prime, too?

:lol

[Cane]

I wouldn't say Dirk is in his physical prime (18-30 years old) but I think it's his skilled game that allows him to slow down the game more that any other player(Dirk is slow as fuck on his drives and everything, It's his deadly shooting skill that opens up the rest of his slow ass game). The reason the Mavs won the championship is because Barea, Terry, Kidd, Chandler, and Marion all stepped up big in the playoffs. And meanwhile on the Spurs, nobody stepped up except a broken down Manu.


Both are correct.

Dirk is still in his prime, and mavs don't win without Chandler + Barea.

:toast Yup. Dirk's in the tail end of his prime and his game will age with the best the league has seen probably. Mavs had the players and a more active management ($$$$) to field a contender even after losing Butler.

[TJastal]

:toast Yup. Dirk's in the tail end of his prime and his game will age with the best the league has seen probably. Mavs had the players and a more active management ($$$$) to field a contender even after losing Butler.

LMAO so now he's at the very "tail end of his prime", lemme guess that tail is 10 feet long too? :rollin

The mavs werent' winnin' shit without Chandler's athletic shotblocking & rebounding to support Dirk's fading athleticism and deteriorating rebounding ability.

Put today's PRIME Chandler on that '06 mavs squad (when I think Dirk was ACTUALLY at the tail end of his prime) and the mavs would have stomped out the heat back then, too.

As far as the $$$$ situation, the spurs have had plenty of chances to find the right fit to help Tim Duncan and for some reason or another have dropped the ball repeatedly. And it hasn't been due to lack of funding. They let Nazr Mohammed walk and Scola slip through their fingers. Either one of those guys (or preferably both) could have easily helped the spurs win more titles since 2007. As was mentioned before, Duncan's PER was still 2nd best for centers in the league last year. And Manu was poised for a brilliant playoff run until he hurt his elbow in the final game of the season.

It gets really annoying hearing the same excuses day after day after day. :sleep

[Blake]

The reason Dallas was able to win a championship was because the mavs were smart enough to realize Dirk needed to be paired with an athletic young defensive center in his prime (28-29 years old) exactly BECAUSE DIRK IS NOWHERE NEAR HIS. And the result of this was Dirk was able to focus even more of his energy on shooting and closing out games.

Yet almost all of Dirk's #'s were actually better last year. And his rebounding numbers have been in steady decline since 2002, where he topped out at 10.0. Sure he's still putting up solid scoring numbers but that doesn't mean he's in his prime by any stretch.

LMAO at tweedle dee and tweedle dum thinking he is in his prime. :rollin

Lmfao at maybe the only dumb ass in the world that thinks dirk is nowhere near his prime.

[Cane]

LMAO so now he's at the very "tail end of his prime", lemme guess that tail is 10 feet long too? :rollin

No, I wrote that in the post earlier as well but its understandable that you missed that considering you're mostly stupid. Dirk's been a MVP candidate thats outplayed stars younger than 30 and is their most important piece.



The mavs werent' winnin' shit without Chandler's athletic shotblocking & rebounding to support Dirk's fading athleticism and deteriorating rebounding ability.

Yup Chandler was pretty important but they weren't winning without a player like Dirk providing the offense either.



Put today's PRIME Chandler on that '06 mavs squad (when I think Dirk was ACTUALLY at the tail end of his prime) and the mavs would have stomped out the heat back then, too.

They should've stomped them back in '06 even without Chandler tbh




As far as the $$$$ situation, the spurs have had plenty of chances to find the right fit to help Tim Duncan and for some reason or another have dropped the ball repeatedly. And it hasn't been due to lack of funding. They let Nazr Mohammed walk and Scola slip through their fingers. Either one of those guys (or preferably both) could have easily helped the spurs win more titles since 2007. As was mentioned before, Duncan's PER was still 2nd best for centers in the league last year. And Manu was poised for a brilliant playoff run until he hurt his elbow in the final game of the season.

It gets really annoying hearing the same excuses day after day after day. :sleep

Duncan had a 15.5 PER at about 35 MPG in the playoffs which is not the 2nd best for centers and he averaged less than 30 mins game in the reg season. Duncan's PER in the playoffs was even worse than Tony's.

Having an owner thats willing to spend as much as Mark Cuban is a significant advantage especially for a competent FO. Spurs never had that much flexibility which would help in getting serious upgrades other than waiting for internationals to come over.

Mavs have Haywood coming off the bench. Spurs have Splitter and the turd towers. That says it all.

[TJastal]

Lmfao at maybe the only dumb ass in the world that thinks dirk is nowhere near his prime.

I think you got it backwards, you and your boyfriend Cane are the only ones who probably think Dirk is still in his prime as a basketball player.

One look at the statistics confirms this.

Statistically his most productive two seasons were 2004 & 2005, where he posted his two highest scoring averages. Since then his steals, rebounds, & blocks have all seen steady declines. Actually he posted his best rebounding rate in 2002 @ 10 a game. That was a decade ago, dumbshit.

Which tells me that right around 2004-2005 was probably close to his prime, and give or take a few years after that for the "tail end".

The mavs found a great fit in Chandler & Haywood and proved you can win with an older caste of players past their primes. Dirk had a great season shooting the ball, and let Chandler & Haywood do all the dirty work inside. But none of that equates to Dirk being "in his prime".

Just because some douche on spurstalk makes an erroneous assumption doesn't mean it's true. You can win without a "HOF'r in his prime", and even if you don't believe that Dirk is way past his prime I bet I can find several championship teams from the past that fit this criteria.

[Cane]

I think you got it backwards, you and your boyfriend Cane are the only ones who probably think Dirk is still in his prime as a basketball player.

One look at the statistics confirms this.

Statistically his most productive two seasons were 2004 & 2005, where he posted his two highest scoring averages. Since then his steals, rebounds, & blocks have all seen steady declines. Actually he posted his best rebounding rate in 2002 @ 10 a game. That was a decade ago, dumbshit.

Which tells me that right around 2004-2005 was probably close to his prime, and give or take a few years after that for the "tail end".

The mavs found a great fit in Chandler & Haywood and proved you can win with an older caste of players past their primes. Dirk had a great season shooting the ball, and let Chandler & Haywood do all the dirty work inside. But none of that equates to Dirk being "in his prime".

Just because some douche on spurstalk makes an erroneous assumption doesn't mean it's true. You can win without a "HOF'r in his prime", and even if you don't believe that Dirk is way past his prime I bet I can find several championship teams from the past that fit this criteria.


One quick look at statistics shows that Dirk is by far the best PF in the NBA and he averaged a higher playoffs PER than his career average.

No one's arguing that he's in his peak but he's in the tail-end of his prime like Hakeem and Malone were. His mileage, game, height, etc. is responsible for his prolonged prime. Dirks a MVP candidate that outplayed the league's best stars on both sides of 30 not too long ago.

[EricD]

Okay it's obvious, TJastal has no life outside of Spurstalk.

[TJastal]

One quick look at statistics shows that Dirk is by far the best PF in the NBA and he averaged a higher playoffs PER than his career average.

No one's arguing that he's in his peak but he's in the tail-end of his prime like Hakeem and Malone were. His mileage, game, height, etc. is responsible for his prolonged prime. Dirks a MVP candidate that outplayed the league's best stars on both sides of 30 not too long ago.

First off who gives a shit about playoffs. Guys always raise the bar come playoff time. It's not a reliable indicator of a player's prime. And what allowed Dirk to save all that up for the playoffs anyway? The addition of Chandler of course, which allowed Dirk to focus in on what he does best which is to shoot the basketball and close out games. That's been the point all along. Pair up today's prime Chandler with Dirk back in 2004 when Dirk was in his prime and Dirk would have went apeshit every year and rang several times.

But that is not even the argument we are having here. We are trying to find Dirk's "prime years".

Looking at regular season numbers Dirk had his highest PER back in 2005 @ 28.2. It's been dropping ever since, to 22.6 this year. If you really can't figure out that THAT was his prime then you are a complete moron.

[ChumpDumper]

Damn he says some stupid shit.

[MaNu4Tres]

In short, physically, Dirk was not and is not in his prime (he's not the athlete he was 10 years ago). But skill-wise, Dirk definitely proved to be in his prime by being the best player on the planet from April through mid-June. That itself definitely enhanced the Mavs' chances to win the title.

[Cane]

First off who gives a shit about playoffs. Guys always raise the bar come playoff time. It's not a reliable indicator of a player's prime.

You can troll better than that. Well, maybe you can.



And what allowed Dirk to save all that up for the playoffs anyway? The addition of Chandler of course, which allowed Dirk to focus in on what he does best which is to shoot the basketball and close out games. That's been the point all along. Pair up today's prime Chandler with Dirk back in 2004 when Dirk was in his prime and Dirk would have went apeshit every year and rang several times.

Maybe but Mavs still needed solid perimeter defenders and could probably use Carlisle as well. Mark Cuban also was maybe too active back then.




But that is not even the argument we are having here. We are trying to find Dirk's "prime years".

Your argument is that Dirk isn't in the tail-end of his prime. You also argued that I didn't even say "tail-end" originally which turned out to be further stupidity from yourself. No one is arguing that Dirk is in his peak physical form or seasons, and I compared it to Hakeem and Malone's later seasons when they too weren't physically their best but still in their primes.



Looking at regular season numbers Dirk had his highest PER back in 2005 @ 28.2. It's been dropping ever since, to 22.6 this year. If you really can't figure out that THAT was his prime then you are a complete moron.

Its been dropping but he's still in the tail end of his prime with playoffs PER like 25.3, 4th best in the NBA and being a MVP candidate that outplayed stars on both sides of 30. Even someone that gets caught up in losing arguments such as yourself should realize that Dirk's near 28 PPG on 48% shooting is up there with the best he's had. And yes, having Chandler helps a lot. Along with Kidd, Stevenson, and Marion playing good defense, Barea's rise, Haywood coming off the bench, etc.

[Cane]

Damn he says some stupid shit.


In short, physically, Dirk was not and is not in his prime (he's not the athlete he was 10 years ago). But skill-wise, Dirk definitely proved to be in his prime by being the best player on the planet from April through mid-June. That itself definitely enhanced the Mavs' chances to win the title.

That basically sums it up. :toast

[TJastal]

In short, physically, Dirk was not and is not in his prime (he's not the athlete he was 10 years ago). But skill-wise, Dirk definitely proved to be in his prime by being the best player on the planet from April through mid-June. That itself definitely enhanced the Mavs' chances to win the title.

Again, a good playoff run does not indicate that a guy is in his prime. As mentioned before, Dirk's best PER was back in 2005. That was his prime year right there. His teams have always struggled because of no interior shotblocking & paint defense. If Dirk had a prime Chandler back in 2005 when he was playing his best basketball the spurs might perhaps have only two trophies in their case.

The skill-set argument you present is really inconsequential IMO. He recently evolved a few moves; the step back jumper and a left handed driving hook. Neither of which really make up for the loss of athleticism and mobility that age has robbed him of.

If you want to argue he is still in his prime because of a few refined moves in his offensive aresenal that's your business. I'll stick with my line of thinking and sleep well at night.

[TJastal]

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1583/lemurringtailedlongtail.jpg

Dirk @ the "tail end" of his prime.

Sincerely,

Cane, Blake, & Manu4tres

[myhc]

If you want to argue he is still in his prime because of a few refined moves in his offensive aresenal that's your business. I'll stick with my line of thinking and sleep well at night

I don't know whether to feel bad for you or point my finger at you and laugh uncontrollably....I'll go with

:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

[MaNu4Tres]

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1583/lemurringtailedlongtail.jpg

Dirk @ the "tail end" of his prime.

Sincerely,

Cane, Blake, & Manu4tres

End of his prime or not, the guy was the best player in the league when it mattered. Obviously him being out of his physical prime had little to no effect on his overall ability or effectiveness towards winning a title-- much like the player in Chicago did in 97'-98' (being out of his physical prime didn't effect him still being on top of his game).

[TJastal]

End of his prime or not, the guy was the best player in the league when it mattered. Obviously him being out of his physical prime had little to no effect on his overall ability or effectiveness towards winning a title-- much like the player in Chicago did in 97'-98' (being out of his physical prime didn't effect him still being on top of his game).

Nowitzki would have flamed out like he does every year without Chandler's paint defense, rebounding, and attitude. Would have been the same story, different year, sissy Dirk would have been pushed around and beat up in the paint and not been able to focus himself on the offensive end. So pretty much what happened to Timmy this year would have happened to Dirk.

Yet, there are people like you who think Dirk somehow turned back time and are back to playing in their prime. It's kind of comical, really.

[DPG21920]

TJ, you are being absolutely obtuse.

[TJastal]

For anyone interested in what type of player Nowitzki was in his prime, check out this clip from 2006.

qGe7HiIPuM4&feature=related

[cantthinkofanything]

For anyone interested in what type of player Nowitzki was in his prime, check out this clip from 2006.


Not sure what your point was. But I think the clip made the case that he isn't far off from his prime. Maybe he had a little more hops back then but not much difference from top plays he made this year.

[TJastal]

TJ, you are being absolutely obtuse.

Dirk is still a great player even at his age, but people need to understand he always has been. Doesn't mean he's in his prime. Only reason he was able to do what he did this year was because of Tyson Chandler (and to a lesser extent Haywood).

Imagine if he actually had quality frontcourt partners like those two all these years and not the likes of Shawn Bradley, Danny Fortson, Keith Van Horn, Erick Dampier, Dasagana Diop....

[TJastal]

Not sure what your point was. But I think the clip made the case that he isn't far off from his prime. Maybe he had a little more hops back then but not much difference from top plays he made this year.

You must be blind. I can tell a huge difference in his athleticism and explosion to the rim in those clips.

[TD 21]

Excellent analysis.

But TD's PER (21.9 according to basketball-reference) was the lowest its been ever - even lower than his rookie year. So was his offreb%, defreb% and just about every other per 36 minute stat available. The telltale one is his offensive win shares (down to 3.7).

When you get a little more in-depth, TD was outplayed by Chandler, M Gasol, Nene, Howard and Bynum was close (keep in mind that TD was moved to PF and Blair moved to C at times).

I realize Duncan's PER was a career low, but it was still good enough for second amongst C's and 14th overall in the league. In comparison to his prime, he's not even close. In comparison to the vast majority of the league, he's still amongst the best.

It makes sense that his rebounding -- offensive, in particular -- was slightly down. Blair, an elite rebounder -- offensive, in particular -- started next to him for the first 63 games.

Duncan's offensive win shares was partially a product of low minutes, field goals and usage. I don't care who you are, you're not going to be dominant offensively playing roughly 28 mpg and taking roughly 11 fg's/game.

PER is in depth, because it encompasses every major offensive stat. Defensively, only Howard and maybe Chandler were superior. The only time Duncan was "moved to PF" was one of the games in Denver, when he started on Williams and Blair started on Nene. Other than that and the brief times he played with Splitter and guarded Randolph in the Grizzlies series, he strictly defended C's the entire season.

Blake, I didn't say or infer that Pop should have been expected to win the championship based on the talent he had to work with. What I meant was, the talent he had to work with is better than Tyrone Jenkins (among others) inferred.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

I realize Duncan's PER was a career low, but it was still good enough for second amongst C's and 14th overall in the league. In comparison to his prime, he's not even close. In comparison to the vast majority of the league, he's still amongst the best.

It makes sense that his rebounding -- offensive, in particular -- was slightly down. Blair, an elite rebounder -- offensive, in particular -- started next to him for the first 63 games.

Duncan's offensive win shares was partially a product of low minutes, field goals and usage. I don't care who you are, you're not going to be dominant offensively playing roughly 28 mpg and taking roughly 11 fg's/game.

PER is in depth, because it encompasses every major offensive stat. Defensively, only Howard and maybe Chandler were superior. The only time Duncan was "moved to PF" was one of the games in Denver, when he started on Williams and Blair started on Nene. Other than that and the brief times he played with Splitter and guarded Randolph in the Grizzlies series, he strictly defended C's the entire season.

Blake, I didn't say or infer that Pop should have been expected to win the championship based on the talent he had to work with. What I meant was, the talent he had to work with is better than Tyrone Jenkins (among others) inferred.


Offensive Wins share is a stat "normalized" for a full game - it's not just for the minutes he's in. Even if it was, his #s wouldn't have been as good if he were required to play MORE minutes as the wear and tear would've most certainly taken its toll. As the season wore on, his #s would've depleted.

I don't disagree w/ you that TD still has something in the tank. But being one of the best CENTERs in the NBA is not as important as being one of the best POWER FORWARDs. The only center of note is Dwight Howard - all the rest, including TD, are there to complement the PF.

Pop, for whatever reason, didn't utilize Splitter or anyone else in the same fashion he used TD when he was a PF. Also, don't mix up the PF and C position because of defensive assignments, being the PF on offense deals w/ play calling (pick and rolls, post ups, etc.) which TD certainly wasn't asked to do as he had in the past. From 2001-2007, TD was the primary option in the offense, now he's not.

I think a lot of what we're both saying is the same . . .

[ace3g]

Evaluating Splitter: An anniversary still in the making

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/07/12/evaluating-splitter-an-anniversary-still-in-the-making/

[Blake]

Dirk @ the "tail end" of his prime.

Sincerely,

Cane, Blake, & Manu4tres

I have no clue what prime means and my humor sucks.

Sincerely,

TJastal

[TD 21]

Offensive Wins share is a stat "normalized" for a full game - it's not just for the minutes he's in. Even if it was, his #s wouldn't have been as good if he were required to play MORE minutes as the wear and tear would've most certainly taken its toll. As the season wore on, his #s would've depleted.

I don't disagree w/ you that TD still has something in the tank. But being one of the best CENTERs in the NBA is not as important as being one of the best POWER FORWARDs. The only center of note is Dwight Howard - all the rest, including TD, are there to complement the PF.

Pop, for whatever reason, didn't utilize Splitter or anyone else in the same fashion he used TD when he was a PF. Also, don't mix up the PF and C position because of defensive assignments, being the PF on offense deals w/ play calling (pick and rolls, post ups, etc.) which TD certainly wasn't asked to do as he had in the past. From 2001-2007, TD was the primary option in the offense, now he's not.

I think a lot of what we're both saying is the same . . .

His offensive numbers would have been better had he played the minutes and attempted the field goal's/free throws he did the season before. Obviously, if he were playing 34-36 mpg, he'd have worn down.

It's not an opinion whether he still has something left in the tank or not; it's a statistical fact. He's indisputably one of the best all around bigs in the league. The problem is, he, more than any other player, get's compared to the player he once was, rather than compared to the competition. You could argue that being an elite C is more important than being an elite PF, because of the scarcity of top flight C's. McDyess/Blair/Bonner were there to compliment him, not the other way around.

You are what you primarily guard. They might still call "four down" to get him the ball on the block, but he's clearly been a full time C since '08. He was the primary offensive option from 97-09.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

You are what you primarily guard. They might still call "four down" to get him the ball on the block, but he's clearly been a full time C since '08. He was the primary offensive option from 97-09.

Incorrect sir. As a basketball coach, this is one of the essential facts that we teach to kids as early as possible.

You are NOT what you guard - that is just your defensive position. You are the position you maintain on offense. Amare Stoudamire is a PF on offense almost every time down the floor even though he may guard the center of the other team from time to time. Same w/ Bosh, Boozer and many others. KG does play C, even at his age, but playes PF more often. He is quoted as being very upset when Perkins was traded as he new that meant he would be asked to play C more often.

Plain and simlpe, PF is different than C - even in the Spurs system. Play calling is different. Who sets the pick up top for the pick and roll is different. Who lines up on what block and which side of the floor the 1st pass goes to depends on who's the PF and who's the C. The movement of the ball around the perimeter is different.

TD has always been listed as a F-C but played the PF role almsot exclusively when David Robinson and Will Perdue played C. Then it was Kevin Willis and Nesterovic, then Nazr Mohammed, Mahinmi and so on. As you mentioned, he has played C more and more as he aged and as different individuals came and went (Horry, Bonner, Oberto to some degree and even at times w/ McDyess) but he still plays PF some as well.

Regardless of all that, the domination by a C been pretty much non-existent since Shaq's decline (w/ the exception of Dwight Howard). You don't really need a DOMINANT center to win championships as the Lakers, Celtics, Mavericks, Bulls, Cavs and Heat all proved you can make it to the finals w/ dominant guards/forwards. Likewise, having a dominant C, even one playing as well as you say TD is playing, certainly doesn't put you any closer to a championship w/o the other pieces. Splitter isn't the PF that will put the boys over the top next year - the year after that, TD will be gone.

So, while your point is valid, it's also somewhat mute. The thread is about Splitter starting next year - who, in my humble opinion, plays more like a center. Whether he becomes dominant in the next few years isn't as important as the other pieces the team has (Leonard, Anderson/Butler, Blair, etc.) and whom ever they can pick up to play PF.

[TD 21]

Incorrect sir. As a basketball coach, this is one of the essential facts that we teach to kids as early as possible.

You are NOT what you guard - that is just your defensive position. You are the position you maintain on offense. Amare Stoudamire is a PF on offense almost every time down the floor even though he may guard the center of the other team from time to time. Same w/ Bosh, Boozer and many others. KG does play C, even at his age, but playes PF more often. He is quoted as being very upset when Perkins was traded as he new that meant he would be asked to play C more often.

Plain and simlpe, PF is different than C - even in the Spurs system. Play calling is different. Who sets the pick up top for the pick and roll is different. Who lines up on what block and which side of the floor the 1st pass goes to depends on who's the PF and who's the C. The movement of the ball around the perimeter is different.

TD has always been listed as a F-C but played the PF role almsot exclusively when David Robinson and Will Perdue played C. Then it was Kevin Willis and Nesterovic, then Nazr Mohammed, Mahinmi and so on. As you mentioned, he has played C more and more as he aged and as different individuals came and went (Horry, Bonner, Oberto to some degree and even at times w/ McDyess) but he still plays PF some as well.

Regardless of all that, the domination by a C been pretty much non-existent since Shaq's decline (w/ the exception of Dwight Howard). You don't really need a DOMINANT center to win championshipsas the Lakers, Celtics, Mavericks, Bulls, Cavs and Heat all proved you can make it to the finals w/ dominant guards/forwards. Likewise, having a dominant C, even one playing as well as you say TD is playing, certainly doesn't put you any closer to a championship w/o the other pieces. Splitter isn't the PF that will put the boys over the top next year - the year after that, TD will be gone.

So, while your point is valid, it's also somewhat mute. The thread is about Splitter starting next year - who, in my humble opinion, plays more like a center. Whether he becomes dominant in the next few years isn't as important as the other pieces the team has (Leonard, Anderson/Butler, Blair, etc.) and whom ever they can pick up to play PF.

Maybe you were right earlier when you said "I think what we're both saying is the same . . .". What I'm saying is, whether they still refer to Duncan as the four in the offense or not, he's clearly the five. Blair and McDyess, who started next to him all season, are flat out not fives, so if it isn't Duncan, who is it?

Stoudemire, Bosh, Boozer, even Garnett, they're all different players, in that they're more natural fours. No matter how much the game changes or how they age, they'll always be fours. Duncan was always a four and a half, so it made it natural for him to move to the five almost full time as he aged.

I didn't say "you need a dominant C to win championships" or that "having a dominant C puts you any closer to the championship w/out other pieces". All I said was he's the second best C in the league, in response to your claim that the Spurs "didn't have a player who is top five at their position".

I still expect the Spurs to trade for a starting four. It's clear from their comments that they're not enamored with Splitter starting next to Duncan -- because they view both as fives -- nor are they with the prospect of Blair starting again.

[mountainballer]

I still expect the Spurs to trade for a starting four. It's clear from their comments that they're not enamored with Splitter starting next to Duncan -- because they view both as fives -- nor are they with the prospect of Blair starting again.

same expectations here.
in general it's not a bad position, if a team can claim to already have two legit centers and is just in need of a quality 4. I wrote before that if Tim doesn't play more than 25 MPG (which he shouldn't), we would need a high quality back up anyhow. so Tiago will also play about 25 MPG, maybe up to 30. the 4th big could still be either Blair or Bonner (the other is traded), playing about 15 MPG.
so, as you also say, what Spurs need is a 30 MPG PF. other than most here I don't think this needs to be a defensive player in the first place. he should be a decent defender, but in the first place he must be able to score efficiently at a 14-17 PPG level. the other team must not be able to focus their post defense on Tim.
that's why I'm high on Landry as a FA target, but I'm aware that he will likely get better offers (Indiana). an interesting trade target could be Millsap, another is Bass. (Millsap reportedly is on the market, Bass was rumored in trade talks last deadline. Bass likely isn't good enough for the mentioned role. Millsap and Landry would be IMO).

[TJastal]

Incorrect sir. As a basketball coach, this is one of the essential facts that we teach to kids as early as possible.

You are NOT what you guard - that is just your defensive position. You are the position you maintain on offense. Amare Stoudamire is a PF on offense almost every time down the floor even though he may guard the center of the other team from time to time. Same w/ Bosh, Boozer and many others. KG does play C, even at his age, but playes PF more often. He is quoted as being very upset when Perkins was traded as he new that meant he would be asked to play C more often.

Plain and simlpe, PF is different than C - even in the Spurs system. Play calling is different. Who sets the pick up top for the pick and roll is different. Who lines up on what block and which side of the floor the 1st pass goes to depends on who's the PF and who's the C. The movement of the ball around the perimeter is different.

TD has always been listed as a F-C but played the PF role almsot exclusively when David Robinson and Will Perdue played C. Then it was Kevin Willis and Nesterovic, then Nazr Mohammed, Mahinmi and so on. As you mentioned, he has played C more and more as he aged and as different individuals came and went (Horry, Bonner, Oberto to some degree and even at times w/ McDyess) but he still plays PF some as well.

Regardless of all that, the domination by a C been pretty much non-existent since Shaq's decline (w/ the exception of Dwight Howard). You don't really need a DOMINANT center to win championships as the Lakers, Celtics, Mavericks, Bulls, Cavs and Heat all proved you can make it to the finals w/ dominant guards/forwards. Likewise, having a dominant C, even one playing as well as you say TD is playing, certainly doesn't put you any closer to a championship w/o the other pieces. Splitter isn't the PF that will put the boys over the top next year - the year after that, TD will be gone.

So, while your point is valid, it's also somewhat mute. The thread is about Splitter starting next year - who, in my humble opinion, plays more like a center. Whether he becomes dominant in the next few years isn't as important as the other pieces the team has (Leonard, Anderson/Butler, Blair, etc.) and whom ever they can pick up to play PF.

Does that make Bonner a SG?

[TJastal]

same expectations here.
in general it's not a bad position, if a team can claim to already have two legit centers and is just in need of a quality 4. I wrote before that if Tim doesn't play more than 25 MPG (which he shouldn't), we would need a high quality back up anyhow. so Tiago will also play about 25 MPG, maybe up to 30. the 4th big could still be either Blair or Bonner (the other is traded), playing about 15 MPG.
so, as you also say, what Spurs need is a 30 MPG PF. other than most here I don't think this needs to be a defensive player in the first place. he should be a decent defender, but in the first place he must be able to score efficiently at a 14-17 PPG level. the other team must not be able to focus their post defense on Tim.
that's why I'm high on Landry as a FA target, but I'm aware that he will likely get better offers (Indiana). an interesting trade target could be Millsap, another is Bass. (Millsap reportedly is on the market, Bass was rumored in trade talks last deadline. Bass likely isn't good enough for the mentioned role. Millsap and Landry would be IMO).

I'd much rather have Ryan Anderson than any of those guys. Kind of like Bonner, a guy who can space the floor for Manu & TP but then actually defend the PF/C positions & rebound.

[Booharv]

The Spurs may have a better chance of competing for another title in a 50- or 60-game campaign than a team like the Oklahoma City Thunder, which relies on younger, less-experienced players.

I've seen this retarded misconception all over the place. If its anything like 99 it will favor the younger teams; they played like 50 games in like two months. There would be a ton of back to back and sometimes iirc they played games three days in a row. Old players get worn out way faster in that kind of scenario.

[mountainballer]

I'd much rather have Ryan Anderson than any of those guys. Kind of like Bonner, a guy who can space the floor for Manu & TP but then actually defend the PF/C positions & rebound.

because Anderson is on the block???? (which he isn't, Magic are pretty happy to have him, except the Bonner like PO downfalls)
I'd much rather have about 10 or 20 other players, if I just mentioned who I like for playing the 4 with the Spurs. Bass and Millsap are (or at least have been) on the market.
another player, who reportedly is on the market is Ilyasova. Bucks wanted a 2011 or 2012 1st rounder before the draft. he had a sub par season, but I still like him. he isn't a solution for the starting PF with the Spurs, but he would be a nice complementary player for some line ups. can play the Bonner role, the small ball PF AND the big SF. would be a nice option to have such a player on the bench.

[TJastal]

because Anderson is on the block???? (which he isn't, Magic are pretty happy to have him, except the Bonner like PO downfalls)
I'd much rather have about 10 or 20 other players, if I just mentioned who I like for playing the 4 with the Spurs. Bass and Millsap are (or at least have been) on the market.
another player, who reportedly is on the market is Ilyasova. Bucks wanted a 2011 or 2012 1st rounder before the draft. he had a sub par season, but I still like him. he isn't a solution for the starting PF with the Spurs, but he would be a nice complementary player for some line ups. can play the Bonner role, the small ball PF AND the big SF. would be a nice option to have such a player on the bench.

Magic want Josh Smith badly and would gladly deal Anderson if that's what it took to reel him in. But the magic really need a 3rd team to be part of the swap to get it done. The spurs could possibly be that 3rd team in a 3-way trade including Anderson.

Just playing around with the trade machine, got this to work:

SA - trades Parker to Atlanta
Orl - trades Anderson & Nelson to SA
Atl - trades Josh Smith to Orl

This would obviously put the heat on Arenas to deliver as the point guard in Orl.. something I think they'd be willing to risk given the amount they are paying him & also to get Smith. Spurs get a starting pg in return for Parker + a great complimentary PF to Duncan. This would give the spurs 4 3pt shooters in the starting lineup.

Nelson
Manu
Jefferson
Anderson
Duncan

[TJastal]

Hell, the spurs could even throw in Blair on their end as a Smith replacement, he'd be actually a great fit for them IMO, they need some beef on their frontline.

[TJastal]

More I think about it, the more I like this trade.

Nelson + Manu in the starting lineup would be a great fit IMO. Nelson has never really needed the ball in hands alot (like Parker) to be effective, which allows more touches for Manu. Nelson is also very good at lob passes, which RJ & Leonard should benefit from.

Anderson still has alot of potential to get better IMO. Not only as a 3pt shooter but in many other facets of his game.

[TJastal]

I bet this would "inspire" some friendly competition between Bonner & Anderson as well. To see which one can be the best 3pt shooting big (% wise). Never hurts to have a little extra motivation. Also maybe Bonner would see Anderson playing like a man in the paint and be shamed into finally shedding his ginger-itis.

One thing is for certain, this would be Pop's wet dream to pretty much always have a floor spacer in the game at the 4.

[MaNu4Tres]

Magic want Josh Smith badly and would gladly deal Anderson if that's what it took to reel him in. But the magic really need a 3rd team to be part of the swap to get it done. The spurs could possibly be that 3rd team in a 3-way trade including Anderson.

Just playing around with the trade machine, got this to work:

SA - trades Parker to Atlanta
Orl - trades Anderson & Nelson to SA
Atl - trades Josh Smith to Orl

This would obviously put the heat on Arenas to deliver as the point guard in Orl.. something I think they'd be willing to risk given the amount they are paying him & also to get Smith. Spurs get a starting pg in return for Parker + a great complimentary PF to Duncan. This would give the spurs 4 3pt shooters in the starting lineup.

Nelson
Manu
Jefferson
Anderson
Duncan

I'm glad you're not the GM of the Spurs.

[Blake]

I'm glad you're not the GM of the Spurs.

+1

Pop would have probably been fired in 2001.

[quentin_compson]

Dear God, please no Nelson on the Spurs team. Compared to him, TP is a brilliant pass-first guard.

[DesignatedT]

lol Parker is 10x better than Nelson. :lmao

[TJastal]

Dear God, please no Nelson on the Spurs team. Compared to him, TP is a brilliant pass-first guard.

So what? You give up a little bit of passing for a much better 3pt shooter and floor spacer and you get the ball in Manu's hands more. It's a win-win.

[TJastal]

lol Parker is 10x better than Nelson. :lmao

Obviously he's better but the difference isn't as big as you're making out. And the fact that he's a better fit in the starting lineup is why it makes sense.

[TJastal]

I'm glad you're not the GM of the Spurs.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have traded Scola for some Greek homo.

[DesignatedT]

Obviously he's better but the difference isn't as big as you're making out. And the fact that he's a better fit in the starting lineup is why it makes sense.

We won 61 games because of our starting backcourt... it obviously wasn't because of our frontcourt... We lost because of our bigs inside and need to address those issues with bigger/stronger/taller players. Getting rid of Tony or Manu, no matter who we can realistically get in return will not make this team better.

If you get rid of Bonner and Blair and add two 7 footers who are 3-4 mil/year type players and give Splitter more of a role then we easily beat Memphis...

:lol talking about blowing up the team and acting like Tony has no real impact on this squad. He is the most important piece to this puzzle, get rid of him and get rid of the little hope we have left.

[TJastal]

We won 61 games because of our starting backcourt... it obviously wasn't because of our frontcourt... We lost because of our bigs inside and need to address those issues with bigger/stronger/taller players. Getting rid of Tony or Manu, no matter who we can realistically get in return will not make this team better.

If you get rid of Bonner and Blair and add two 7 footers who are 3-4 mil/year type players and give Splitter more of a role then we easily beat Memphis...

:lol talking about blowing up the team and acting like Tony has no real impact on this squad. He is the most important piece to this puzzle, get rid of him and get rid of the little hope we have left.

Still stuck on thinking the spurs would just roll into the fetal position and die if Parker left the team, huh?

[DesignatedT]

Still stuck on thinking the spurs would just roll into the fetal position and die if Parker left the team, huh?

roll into the fetal position and die? No, definitely not... but I don't think our championship aspirations improve under any scenario in which Parker is traded... If we are indeed in "win now" mode.

[TJastal]

roll into the fetal position and die? No, definitely not... but I don't think our championship aspirations improve under any scenario in which Parker is traded.

ANY scenario?

[DesignatedT]

If you were talking about rebuilding for the future than so be it, Trade Tony for younger pieces and nobody could really disagree with you, but insinuating that trading Tony would be a "win now" move is :lol

[DesignatedT]

ANY scenario?

Realistic scenario, Yes.

[dylankerouac]

We won 61 games because of our starting backcourt... it obviously wasn't because of our frontcourt... We lost because of our bigs inside and need to address those issues with bigger/stronger/taller players. Getting rid of Tony or Manu, no matter who we can realistically get in return will not make this team better.

If you get rid of Bonner and Blair and add two 7 footers who are 3-4 mil/year type players and give Splitter more of a role then we easily beat Memphis...

:lol talking about blowing up the team and acting like Tony has no real impact on this squad. He is the most important piece to this puzzle, get rid of him and get rid of the little hope we have left.

:toast

[TJastal]

If you were talking about rebuilding for the future than so be it, Trade Tony for younger pieces and nobody could really disagree with you, but insinuating that trading Tony would be a "win now" move is :lol

Are you saying 24 year old Ryan Anderson is not a "younger piece"?

[DesignatedT]

Are you saying 24 year old Ryan Anderson is not a "younger piece"?

Are you saying that Jameer Nelson and Ryan Anderson will make it more likely the Spurs come away with a championship next season?

Or is this a rebuilding move you are making... for when after Duncan retires...

[DesignatedT]

Under either scenario is makes no sense. Nelson and Anderson definitely don't improve our stance for next season compared to Tony and playing our hand in FA....

and if you are talking about a rebuilding after Duncan move, we better be able to get something better than Ryan Anderson for Tony Parker :lmao

[TJastal]

Parker homers ... gotta be the most retarded dipshits on this forum.

Let's see, they all whine about wanting to rebuild and pay lip service to putting TP on the trading block, but scoff at my idea which would shave off 2 years of salary for a total savings of 35 MILLION. OH, and also would net us a 24 year old power forward for the future to start next to Tiago.

Not good enough, says the Parker homers.

:rolleyes

[DesignatedT]

Parker homers ... gotta be the most retarded dipshits on this forum.

Let's see, they all whine about wanting to rebuild and pay lip service to putting TP on the trading block, but scoff at my idea which would shave off 2 years of salary for a total savings of 35 MILLION. OH, and also would net us a 24 year old power forward for the future to start next to Tiago.

Not good enough, says the Parker homers.

:rolleyes

1. I don't want to rebuild or trade Tony Parker
2. Jameer Nelson and Ryan fucking Anderson aren't going to better our chances next season.
3. Ryan Anderson starting Power forward of the Future? lmao Can't wait for the day Duncan retires so Ryan Anderson can take over the reigns. :lmao


Lets rebuild... trade Tony Parker for Ryan Anderson, :lol at trashing our FO....
Go play with the trade machine some more, and figure out some more ways we can get rid of that damn frenchy, I doubt it can get any worse then this idea.

[TJastal]

If you were talking about rebuilding for the future than so be it, Trade Tony for younger pieces and nobody could really disagree with you


1. I don't want to rebuild or trade Tony Parker.

Classic Parker homer too dense to even remember what he said 5 minutes ago.

:lmao

[DesignatedT]

IF YOU were talking about rebuilding for the future than so be it, Trade Tony for younger pieces and nobody could really disagree with you, but insinuating that trading Tony would be a "win now" move is :lol


:lmao please tell me where I said "I want to rebuild for the future".

Good try dipshit.



Classic Parker homer too dense to even remember what he said 5 minutes ago.

:lmao

[TJastal]

:lmao please tell me where I said "I want to rebuild for the future".

Good try dipshit.

So now you don't want to rebuild for the future (?) I understand that you wouldn't trade your precious poodle for anyone but why are you against rebuilding?

[EricD]

:lol @ TJastal having no life outside of Spurstalk.

The dude just never shuts up. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

lol Tony Parker for Ryan Anderson

[TJastal]

lol Tony Parker for Ryan Anderson

lol Ryan Anderson is better than any PF on the spurs currently

lol

lol cut 2 years of parker's bloated salary and save 35 million by paying Nelson half price

lol

lol

lol

lol

[jjktkk]

Parker homers ... gotta be the most retarded dipshits on this forum.

Let's see, they all whine about wanting to rebuild and pay lip service to putting TP on the trading block, but scoff at my idea which would shave off 2 years of salary for a total savings of 35 MILLION. OH, and also would net us a 24 year old power forward for the future to start next to Tiago.

Not good enough, says the Parker homers.

:rolleyes

Not Parker homers. More like common sense homers.

[DesignatedT]

So now you don't want to rebuild for the future (?) I understand that you wouldn't trade your precious poodle for anyone but why are you against rebuilding?


Because I feel that keeping the big 3 intact give us the best chance to win right now, and as long as Duncan is taking the court, I think he deserves that.... is this that hard to understand...

I know that Ryan Anderson isn't going to turn us into a title contender right now and if you are indeed doing this trade for life after Duncan, I think it's pretty shitty value to get in return for a player like Tony.

[ChumpDumper]

lol Ryan Anderson is better than any PF on the spurs currentlyNot really.


lol

lol cut 2 years of parker's bloated salary and save 35 million by paying Nelson half priceTo what end? Tanking for a lottery pick?
lol

lol

lol

lollol so sensitive

[TJastal]

Not really.To what end? Tanking for a lottery pick?lol so sensitive

lol Blair & Bonner > Anderson

lol

lol

lol doesn't understand what rebuilding is

lol

lol

Oh, btw lol

lol

lol

[DesignatedT]

lol Blair & Bonner > Anderson

lol

lol

lol doesn't understand what rebuilding is

lol

lol

Oh, btw lol

lol

lol

/thread.


defeated.

[TJastal]

Not Parker homers. More like common sense homers.

Right, because common sense dictates spending 35 million extra dollars is exactly what you wanna do when you start rebuilding.

:lol

[ChumpDumper]

lol Blair & Bonner > Anderson

lol

lol

lol doesn't understand what rebuilding is

lol

lol

Oh, btw lol

lol

lolOK, so you do want to tank.

It makes sense now.

Not what I would personally do, but it is a strategy of sorts.

[TJastal]

OK, so you do want to tank.

It makes sense now.

Not what I would personally do, but it is a strategy of sorts.

When you rebuild you sort of have to accept the fact you might be bad for awhile.

And I don't agree the spurs wouldn't have a shot with Nelson at point. He's not far behind Parker as far as point guards go. And he'll be getting paid half Parker's salary and his two years meshes better with Manu & Timmy's departure and the whole rebuilding plan, not to mention saving Holt two additional years of 12m+. Not to mention getting a 24 year old who is already seasoned in the league.

Any of this make sense?

[TJastal]

/thread.


defeated.

/Parker homers

/lololololol

[DesignatedT]

but, Nelson is far behind Parker.. especially in this system. With Pop and Team Chemistry issues you are virtually giving up on the last years of Duncan.

I'm not interested in doing that.

[ChumpDumper]

When you rebuild you sort of have to accept the fact you might be bad for awhile.

And I don't agree the spurs wouldn't have a shot with Nelson at point. He's not far behind Parker as far as point guards go. And he'll be getting paid half Parker's salary and his two years meshes better with Manu & Timmy's departure and the whole rebuilding plan, not to mention saving Holt two additional years of 12m+. Not to mention getting a 24 year old who is already seasoned in the league.

Any of this make sense?I said there is a certain logic to your wanting to tank so badly. It's not the first time that strategy has been proposed. Tanking for Ryan Anderson is pretty lol though tbh.

[TJastal]

I said there is a certain logic to your wanting to tank so badly. It's not the first time that strategy has been proposed. Tanking for Ryan Anderson is pretty lol though tbh.

Rebuilding is not tanking. I have not suggested tanking. I know the two are probably confusing terms and all but please try to commit this to memory for at least the rest of the day or until I log off.

[ChumpDumper]

Rebuilding is not tanking. I have not suggested tanking. I know the two are probably confusing terms and all but please try to commit this to memory for at least the rest of the day or until I log off.Just because you don't realize you proposed tanking doesn't mean you didn't propose tanking.

[TJastal]

but, Nelson is far behind Parker.. especially in this system. With Pop and Team Chemistry issues you are virtually giving up on the last years of Duncan.

I'm not interested in doing that.

So you would be willing to commit/spend 35 extra million of Holt's limited pool of dollars in order to give it one last go around with the poodle but this time no starting PF and possibly both draft pick rookies playing major roles on the team?

Now that's some real faith right there, baby! :lmao

[EricD]

I love how fans are so concerned with shaving money off the cap, when rebuilding through the draft is the only real way the Spurs can rebuild.

Even if Spurs saved money off Jefferson or Parker coming off the books in proposed trades, no free agent would want to come here in the next few years- meaning Spurs would have to overpay for marginal talent ( like a Jefferson), just like they're paying now.

Some people really need to get a clue.

[DesignatedT]

So you would be willing to commit/spend 35 extra million of Holt's limited pool of dollars in order to give it one last go around with the poodle but this time no starting PF and possibly both draft pick rookies playing major roles on the team?

Now that's some real faith right there, baby! :lmao

:lol We did win 61 games last year, I don't think blowing it up right now would be the wise decision. Not sure what you mean by no starting PF. I think a Duncan/Splitter front line will suffice. Plus, the off-season is far from over and I would be willing to bet that the Spurs aren't done making moves for next season...

Also, just because we commit to Tony for 1 or 2 more seasons doesn't automatically mean we commit to his whole contract. If our best interest is to get rid of him or trade him after Duncan retires, than that will be an option... especially since only $3.5/million out of his $12.5 is guaranteed to him during the last year of his contract. So saying you're shedding $35 million doesn't necessarily make sense :lmao

[TJastal]

Just because you don't realize you proposed tanking doesn't mean you didn't propose tanking.

?

Tanking is purposeful losing. Rebuilding = trying but losing. And accepting the fact you're going to lose. Or in your case not accepting the fact that you're going to suck for awhile & calling it "tanking".

:lol

[ChumpDumper]

Tanking is purposeful losing.Bingo.

[TJastal]

:lol We did win 61 games last year, I don't think blowing it up right now would be the wise decision. Not sure what you mean by no starting PF. I think a Duncan/Splitter front line will suffice. Plus, the off-season is far from over and I would be willing to bet that the Spurs aren't done making moves for next season...

Also, just because we commit to Tony for 1 or 2 more seasons doesn't automatically mean we commit to his whole contract :lmao. If our best interest is to get rid of him or trade him after Duncan retires, than that will be an option... especially since only $3.5/million out of his $12.5 is guaranteed to him during the last year of his contract. So saying you're shedding $35 million doesn't necessarily make sense lmao

You Parker homers are hilarious.

And you think the spurs are going to get some great offers for Parker 3 years from now when his game has fallen even farther? The spurs will probably have to include a talented young player/prospect just to get rid of him by then.

[DesignatedT]

You Parker homers are hilarious.

And you think the spurs are going to get some great offers for Parker 3 years from now when his game has fallen even farther? The spurs will probably have to include a talented young player/prospect just to get rid of him by then....

:lmao-

Ryan Anderson is a great offer? :rollin

I rather keep winning now for a couple years with Tony at the helm and worry about rebuilding after Duncan and Manu retire than giving up right now and trading for the "next great" Ryan Anderson lmao

Especially with only 3.5 mil being guaranteed in this last season of his deal. That could be appealing to a lot of teams.

[ChumpDumper]

You Parker homers are hilarious.

And you think the spurs are going to get some great offers for Parker 3 years from now when his game has fallen even farther?When the last year of his deal is only $3.5 million guaranteed?

Yes. Yes I do.

[DesignatedT]

Might as well force Duncan to retire tomorrow if you're going to trade Tony Parker for Ryan Anderson :lmao Slap Duncan in the face too while you're at it.

[TJastal]

Might as well force Duncan to retire tomorrow if you're going to trade Tony Parker for Ryan Anderson :lmao Slap Duncan in the face too while you're at it.

I don't think Duncan would be too broken up over losing a wife sexting teammate who got wtfpwned by Mike Conley in the playoffs.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think Duncan would be too broken up over losing a wife sexting teammate who got wtfpwned by Mike Conley in the playoffs.lol mind reading

lol Ryan Anderson

lol a lot better

lol tanking

[TJastal]

When the last year of his deal is only $3.5 million guaranteed?

Yes. Yes I do.

Jordan's firesale is pretty much over, tbh

[TJastal]

Oh hey, wait a minute. Tyrus Thomas will still be under contract in 2015. I stand corrected.

TP for TT. I like it. :tu

[ChumpDumper]

Jordan's firesale is pretty much over, tbhYou're pretty stupid tbh.

[TJastal]

You're pretty stupid tbh.

What's funny is you thinking the spurs are going to get anything decent in return for Parker in 2015 when Parker will be 32 years old and will need a wheelchair after any back to backs.

[ChumpDumper]

What's funny is you thinking the spurs are going to get anything decent in return for Parker in 2015 when Parker will be 32 years old and will need a wheelchair after any back to backs.Who said the team getting him would want him to play basketball for them?

Oh, I get it. You don't know what an unguaranteed contract is.

I forgot just how stupid you are for a second.

I apologize.

Jameer Nelson is older than Tony Parker.

[The Truth #6]

When you rebuild you sort of have to accept the fact you might be bad for awhile.

And I don't agree the spurs wouldn't have a shot with Nelson at point. He's not far behind Parker as far as point guards go. And he'll be getting paid half Parker's salary and his two years meshes better with Manu & Timmy's departure and the whole rebuilding plan, not to mention saving Holt two additional years of 12m+. Not to mention getting a 24 year old who is already seasoned in the league.

Any of this make sense?

I'm open to trading Parker because I don't think he sounds very motivated for next season (whatever amount of it we get). But, this sounds like a bad trade. I'd hold out for more.

[TJastal]

Who said the team getting him would want him to play basketball for them?

Oh, I get it. You don't know what an unguaranteed contract is.

I forgot just how stupid you are for a second.

I apologize.

Jameer Nelson is older than Tony Parker.

Let's play a little game of True or False.

Playing 400 more games in a nba career is more debilitating than being 3 months older in age.

True or False?

(psst...I didn't forget how stupid you were).

[TJastal]

I'm open to trading Parker because I don't think he sounds very motivated for next season (whatever amount of it we get). But, this sounds like a bad trade. I'd hold out for more.

Getting a starting power forward for now AND the future WITH Tiago plus saving a shitload of money to start some rebuilding doesn't sound good?

How much better do you really think it gets?

[baseline bum]

Tyrus Thomas? :rollin

Parker for one of the biggest busts of the 2000s? :lmao

[z0sa]

Some people will just always be obsessed with size and shot blocking . . .

[DesignatedT]

Tyrus Thomas and Ryan Anderson :lmao :lmao :lmao

This fuckin guy

[Muser]

Oh hey, wait a minute. Tyrus Thomas will still be under contract in 2015. I stand corrected.

TP for TT. I like it. :tu

I hope for your sake that this is some kind of retarded troll attempt.

[TD 21]

same expectations here.
in general it's not a bad position, if a team can claim to already have two legit centers and is just in need of a quality 4. I wrote before that if Tim doesn't play more than 25 MPG (which he shouldn't), we would need a high quality back up anyhow. so Tiago will also play about 25 MPG, maybe up to 30. the 4th big could still be either Blair or Bonner (the other is traded), playing about 15 MPG.
so, as you also say, what Spurs need is a 30 MPG PF. other than most here I don't think this needs to be a defensive player in the first place. he should be a decent defender, but in the first place he must be able to score efficiently at a 14-17 PPG level. the other team must not be able to focus their post defense on Tim.
that's why I'm high on Landry as a FA target, but I'm aware that he will likely get better offers (Indiana). an interesting trade target could be Millsap, another is Bass. (Millsap reportedly is on the market, Bass was rumored in trade talks last deadline. Bass likely isn't good enough for the mentioned role. Millsap and Landry would be IMO).

It's definitely preferable to having two quality fours and no starting caliber fives. I suspect the big rotation will be as follows: Duncan 28 mpg, starting four 26 mpg, Bonner 22 mpg, Splitter 20 mpg. I didn't find Duncan's minutes to be an issue last season and whether they play him 25 mpg, 30 mpg, or somewhere in between, he's still going to progressively wear down in the playoffs. But in order to have their best possible chance of going on a deep run, they'll likely need a high seed and in order to obtain that, they'll likely need Duncan for more than 25 mpg.

I don't know that it's got to be a defense first player. What it's got to be is someone who's not a liability when it comes to mid range shooting, rebounding or defending. That's the problem with Landry, Millsap and Bass. None are good defenders, two aren't good rebounders and Millsap, despite his reputation as a glass eater, has not been a very good rebounder either the past two seasons. What I like about Johnson is that he's not a liability in any of those three areas and in addition to that, he's athletic and a shot blocker. This team hasn't had a big as athletic as him (in the rotation, at least) in a long time and they haven't a second shot blocker since the days of Mohammed and Nesterovic.

Anderson, though I don't see him as a fit on the Spurs (unless they get rid of Bonner), I do think he is available. Not because the Magic want to trade him, but because they need to acquire a significant player in order to have a chance to re-sign Howard. They don't have a lot of good, young, inexpensive talent, so if they're to make a trade, there's a good chance Anderson would have to be a part of it. I think that's why they traded for Harper during the draft.

[rascal]

I have no problem with trading parker but not for Anderson and Nelson.
The Spurs need to add a top proven star for Parker not two average players.

[ChumpDumper]

Let's play a little game of True or False.

Playing 400 more games in a nba career is more debilitating than being 3 months older in age.

True or False?

(psst...I didn't forget how stupid you were).So Nelson is going to suck that much more the more he plays?

Wow.

You really made your case. :lol

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Does that make Bonner a SG?

Very good question. Bonner is an anomoly. To be honest - he does have the game of a SG. But he plays the PF position (think of how he's used).

For the record, Size isn't as much an indicator of position as it used to be. Just because he's taller than 6'6" doesn't mean he doesn't have that type of game. Chuck Hayes is 6'6" and was listed as the Rockets center all last year. Davis Bertans is 6'10" and is listed as a SF. Durant is 6'9" and plays SG from time to time (and most certainly has that style of game). Dirk at times, played the SG position as well.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

It's definitely preferable to having two quality fours and no starting caliber fives. I suspect the big rotation will be as follows: Duncan 28 mpg, starting four 26 mpg, Bonner 22 mpg, Splitter 20 mpg. I didn't find Duncan's minutes to be an issue last season and whether they play him 25 mpg, 30 mpg, or somewhere in between, he's still going to progressively wear down in the playoffs. But in order to have their best possible chance of going on a deep run, they'll likely need a high seed and in order to obtain that, they'll likely need Duncan for more than 25 mpg.

I don't know that it's got to be a defense first player. What it's got to be is someone who's not a liability when it comes to mid range shooting, rebounding or defending. That's the problem with Landry, Millsap and Bass. None are good defenders, two aren't good rebounders and Millsap, despite his reputation as a glass eater, has not been a very good rebounder either the past two seasons. What I like about Johnson is that he's not a liability in any of those three areas and in addition to that, he's athletic and a shot blocker. This team hasn't had a big as athletic as him (in the rotation, at least) in a long time and they haven't a second shot blocker since the days of Mohammed and Nesterovic.

Anderson, though I don't see him as a fit on the Spurs (unless they get rid of Bonner), I do think he is available. Not because the Magic want to trade him, but because they need to acquire a significant player in order to have a chance to re-sign Howard. They don't have a lot of good, young, inexpensive talent, so if they're to make a trade, there's a good chance Anderson would have to be a part of it. I think that's why they traded for Harper during the draft.

I disagree. PFs are a dime a dozen - just about every team has a somewhat serviceable one while few teams have even an average C.

Just look at the NBA draft and count the # of PFs drafted vs. the # of Cs drafted.

[DMC]

It's going to be a dark year for SA. Tim retires, no one left but Manu and Tony to carry on. I see a few years of Utahville coming our way.

[mountainballer]

I disagree. PFs are a dime a dozen - just about every team has a somewhat serviceable one while few teams have even an average C.

Just look at the NBA draft and count the # of PFs drafted vs. the # of Cs drafted.

that's what he said. in fact you agree.

[mystargtr34]

Tim has been a C since about 2006-2007 when Oberto came into the starting lineup. He has been the biggest guy on the court for the Spurs since then... and he has guarded the opposition C 90% of the time.. and has been guarded by the opposition C 90% of the time.

Just because Tim sets the screens doesnt really mean he is the PF.. which ever guy is more comfortable recieving the ball off the roll or pop usually is the guy setting the screen. Dwight Howard sets the screens for the Magic.. he isnt the PF.

[DesignatedT]

Tim has been a C since about 2006-2007 when Oberto came into the starting lineup. He has been the biggest guy on the court for the Spurs since then... and he has guarded the opposition C 90% of the time.. and has been guarded by the opposition C 90% of the time.

Just because Tim sets the screens doesnt really mean he is the PF.. which ever guy is more comfortable recieving the ball off the roll or pop usually is the guy setting the screen. Dwight Howard sets the screens for the Magic.. he isnt the PF.

I don't think anyone is saying he hasn't been our C. Although, if you pair Splitter next to Duncan they could rotate guarding the smaller PFs of the league depending on matchups and Duncan would still be the more reliable option offensively. .

[mystargtr34]

I don't think anyone is saying he hasn't been our C. Although, if you pair Splitter next to Duncan they could rotate guarding the smaller PFs of the league depending on matchups and Duncan would still be the more reliable option offensively. .

Sure. They would make a good combination. I see Tim as a C/PF and Tiago as a PF/C. I guess there isnt much difference.. Splitter clearly has good lateral quickness so he would mainly defend 4's.

[elemento]

I don't think anyone is saying he hasn't been our C. Although, if you pair Splitter next to Duncan they could rotate guarding the smaller PFs of the league depending on matchups and Duncan would still be the more reliable option offensively. .

That's what i think as well. In the end, i think that's what is going to happen. Splitter is our best option to start and with the expendable pieces that we have, we cannot land a starting PF, at least not a good one.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

It's going to be a dark year for SA. Tim retires, no one left but Manu and Tony to carry on. I see a few years of Utahville coming our way.

Hopefully, that won't be the case.

What's more likely - Splitter develops into a 20/10 force to be reconned w/ every game (All Star) or Anderson or Butler and Leonard developing into prolific scorers/defenders on the perimeter that would prove to be more of a replacement for Manu and Bowen than Splitter is as a replacement for Duncan?

If you figure the latter, as I do, then I think the Spurs are just ONE piece away from serious contending. That one piece, however, is a GREAT PF.

[elemento]

Man Splitter can be a great contributor, but he will never be a 20/10 guy. At best, he will be like Varejao, a 10/10 guy. He is an ok rebounder, he takes charges, he is a good P&R defender and help defender and that's it. I don't expect much else from him, especially offensively.

[rascal]

Hopefully, that won't be the case.

What's more likely - Splitter develops into a 20/10 force to be reconned w/ every game (All Star) or Anderson or Butler and Leonard developing into prolific scorers/defenders on the perimeter that would prove to be more of a replacement for Manu and Bowen than Splitter is as a replacement for Duncan?

If you figure the latter, as I do, then I think the Spurs are just ONE piece away from serious contending. That one piece, however, is a GREAT PF.

You are overrating Splitter if you think he will be a 20/10 player.

[ChuckD]

Tyrus Thomas = Stromile Swift = Marcus Fizer

[Tyrone Jenkins]

You are overrating Splitter if you think he will be a 20/10 player.

I don't. The scenario was a question . . . one which I mentioned that Anderson and Leonard will be more contributory to the Spurs future than Splitter.

[TJastal]

With the right minutes (and more importantly STEADY minutes) Splitter can be a 15/10 player IMO.

If his minutes once again consist of occassional random stretches predicated entirely on Pop's whim of the moment, I don't expect his numbers to even improve from last year.

[ChuckD]

With the right minutes (and more importantly STEADY minutes) Splitter can be a 15/10 player IMO.

If his minutes once again consist of occassional random stretches predicated entirely on Pop's whim of the moment, I don't expect his numbers to even improve from last year.

His realistic ceiling is probably 12/7. He's just not tough enough or hungry enough to average 10 boards in the NBA. He watches the flow of the game go by him, instead of sticking his nose in. Even your beloved St. Luis, who has averaged 30+ minutes 3 times, has never even hit 9 rpg, and his motor runs MUCH faster than Splitter's.

[ChumpDumper]

Only nine players averaged 10 or more rebounds last season, and that's rounding up.

It's a number that's just thrown out there without thinking.

[EricD]

Is there anyway the mods can just make a TJastal/Chump thread?

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Only nine players averaged 10 or more rebounds last season, and that's rounding up.

It's a number that's just thrown out there without thinking.

this year - TD used to hover around 20/10 in the past...

[mystargtr34]

Tiago could probably be a 12-7 guy with a bigger role.. at least 25-28 MPG.. he should get 30+ with the current state of Spurs bigmen but all joking aside we know that there is 20 reserved for Bonner regardless of performance. Floor spreading doesnt come up in the box score.

Anyway.. if FatBlair can average 8 a game with his offensive repetoire consisting of only wide open layups on feeds from Manu.. then Tiago should be able to score an extra couple of buckets based off his length around the basket.. given that he will get similar wide open looks as Blair.

About the rebounding.. Tiago finished his rookie season with a rebound rate (% of all available rebounds taken) at 15.8 which is above average for bigmen. His rebounding has actually become under rated.. especially on the offensive end. For comparisons sake

Pau Gasol 15.6
Luis Scola 14.2
Chris Bosh 13.6
LaMarcus Aldridge 13.5
Paul Millsap 13.4
Amare Stoudemire 12.7
Dirk Nowitzki 12.0
Matt Bonner 9.7 :lol

Its quite amazing how he couldnt get on the court ahead of Blair and Bonner... amazing :lol. Obviously Pop panicked and admitted his mistake by desperately throwing him out there against the Grizzlies. Beating a dead horse here but its hard not to think about how the Spurs season may have been different had Tiago been integrated during the 82 game season.

[Hoops Czar]

With the right minutes (and more importantly STEADY minutes) Splitter can be a 15/10 player IMO.

If his minutes once again consist of occassional random stretches predicated entirely on Pop's whim of the moment, I don't expect his numbers to even improve from last year.

15/10? He can't shoot, can't create his own shot, can't jump, and he's only a scoring threat when he rebounds garbage thrown at the rim. He's nowhere near a model of consistency and hasn't shown the ability to stay on the court with the first unit. He's second unit fodder and I will be flabbergasted if he can post a 10/7 by season's end. The only way to improve his minutes on the court is to demonstrate basketball skill and show vast improvements in practice. If there's a shortened season, its going to kill practice time between games which is going to directly affect Splitter's court time.

[TJastal]

Tiago could probably be a 12-7 guy with a bigger role.. at least 25-28 MPG.. he should get 30+ with the current state of Spurs bigmen but all joking aside we know that there is 20 reserved for Bonner regardless of performance. Floor spreading doesnt come up in the box score.

Anyway.. if FatBlair can average 8 a game with his offensive repetoire consisting of only wide open layups on feeds from Manu.. then Tiago should be able to score an extra couple of buckets based off his length around the basket.. given that he will get similar wide open looks as Blair.

About the rebounding.. Tiago finished his rookie season with a rebound rate (% of all available rebounds taken) at 15.8 which is above average for bigmen. His rebounding has actually become under rated.. especially on the offensive end. For comparisons sake

Pau Gasol 15.6
Luis Scola 14.2
Chris Bosh 13.6
LaMarcus Aldridge 13.5
Paul Millsap 13.4
Amare Stoudemire 12.7
Dirk Nowitzki 12.0
Matt Bonner 9.7 :lol

Its quite amazing how he couldnt get on the court ahead of Blair and Bonner... amazing :lol. Obviously Pop panicked and admitted his mistake by desperately throwing him out there against the Grizzlies. Beating a dead horse here but its hard not to think about how the Spurs season may have been different had Tiago been integrated during the 82 game season.

That Splitter was able to outrebound established guys that have been in the league awhile in his rookie season with what amounts to Pop's used toenail clippings for minutes.... that says alot. As I said before with the right minutes (and steady minutes every game Splitter can pull double figure rebounds. Hell, Kevin Love nabbed almost 16 in 35 minutes a game.

And lmao @ Bonner's rebound rate. :rollin

[TJastal]

15/10? He can't shoot, can't create his own shot, can't jump, and he's only a scoring threat when he rebounds garbage thrown at the rim. He's nowhere near a model of consistency and hasn't shown the ability to stay on the court with the first unit. He's second unit fodder and I will be flabbergasted if he can post a 10/7 by season's end. The only way to improve his minutes on the court is to demonstrate basketball skill and show vast improvements in practice. If there's a shortened season, its going to kill practice time between games which is going to directly affect Splitter's court time.

I believe he can shoot, and he has some post moves in his arsenal, it's just a matter of getting the PT to make the adjustment to the nba game which usually takes a year or two for most European players. It didn't help at all that Pop didn't give him any kind of consistent minutes last season which would have went a long way in developing some confidence, but we all know Pop is an idiot who basically gave away all of Splitter's development minutes to the undersized SG poser named Bonner..

Anyway, here's the first TS mix google came up with and guess what.... he can shoot the basketball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swj7Nx_uxlA

@ :35 top key jumper
@ :45 baseline 18 footer
@ 1:17 jump hook
@ 1:22 top of key jumper
@ 1:27 baseline jumper
@ 1:33 3pt shot

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Keep in mind that Splitter's minutes mostly came against other teams' 2nd and 3rd team PF/Cs. I would've loved to see what he was capable of vs starting lineups in the West.

maybe we'll get to see whenever the lockout is over...

[spurs10]

I know it's been discussed here, but I'd like to hear more opinions on the realistic proposal that Tiago will primarily be used as our starting PF, if no trade is made for one? It seems obvious that 5 is his natural position and coming off the bench for Tim would be preferable. I still see many people referring to Tim in mock line-ups as a 4, a position he no longer plays. We need a true PF more than anything, but is Tiago the only answer otherwise ?

[Tyrone Jenkins]

I know it's been discussed here, but I'd like to hear more opinions on the realistic proposal that Tiago will primarily be used as our starting PF, if no trade is made for one? It seems obvious that 5 is his natural position and coming off the bench for Tim would be preferable. I still see many people referring to Tim in mock line-ups as a 4, a position he no longer plays. We need a true PF more than anything, but is Tiago the only answer otherwise ?

I would agree completely. A true PF w/ skill is more difficult to find than a PG w/ true PG skills.

That's why I tend to favor trading TP for Josh Smith or someone of that sort. I like TP, don't get me wrong, but he's more easily replaced than a good PF (which the Spurs lack).

[The Truth #6]

I think the Spurs lack a lot of players right now to be contenders. I'm open to trading TP as well for the right player, but at some point the Spurs have to play their better players and see if they work together. Yeah, in theory, TS maybe shouldn't play next to Tim, but if they are our two best post players, then we might just have to play them. If you step back and think what player is more suited for Pop's team - Tiago or say Josh Smith, isn't it obvious that Tiago is more of a Pop player? We have him. Thought we'd play him last year but Pop's stubborn BS got in the way. Next season he needs to play.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Only nine players averaged 10 or more rebounds last season, and that's rounding up.

It's a number that's just thrown out there without thinking.

People are just used to seeing Tim Duncan having done it for more than a decade.

[TJastal]

I know it's been discussed here, but I'd like to hear more opinions on the realistic proposal that Tiago will primarily be used as our starting PF, if no trade is made for one? It seems obvious that 5 is his natural position and coming off the bench for Tim would be preferable. I still see many people referring to Tim in mock line-ups as a 4, a position he no longer plays. We need a true PF more than anything, but is Tiago the only answer otherwise ?

Might happen (Splitter + Duncan starting). Mostly because of the issue of size in the paint and Duncan being so worn down to the nub thanks to Pop(and seemingly getting thinner each year). Timmy has needed a larger body next to him for over 4 years now, and the situation is getting dire. Pop just doesn't understand that he's no longer an MVP candidate & defensive player of the year. As evidenced in the playoffs when combined might of the grizzlies frontline clobbered him.

Now Splitter is defenitely quick enough to cover the 4 plus he's big and strong enough to cover the 5. He's surprisingly mobile for his size. Problem will be getting Pop to not only try him in the starting lineup, but stick with it through the learning curve to get to the point where Splitter would be comfortable and know his role in the offense. I really see no reason why it wouldn't be just as effective as a Blair/TD frontline. I think Splitter no question would be an upgrade defensively, and he's a much better offensive player than he showed in limited minutes last year. And I'm tired of watching Blair make a good post move only to duff the layup.

And IF Leonard can provide some good defense at small forward, it might even make the Bonner/Blair backup tandem feasible.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Might happen (Splitter + Duncan starting). Mostly because of the issue of size in the paint and Duncan being so worn down to the nub thanks to Pop(and seemingly getting thinner each year). Timmy has needed a larger body next to him for over 4 years now, and the situation is getting dire. Pop just doesn't understand that he's no longer an MVP candidate & defensive player of the year. As evidenced in the playoffs when combined might of the grizzlies frontline clobbered him.

Now Splitter is defenitely quick enough to cover the 4 plus he's big and strong enough to cover the 5. He's surprisingly mobile for his size. Problem will be getting Pop to not only try him in the starting lineup, but stick with it through the learning curve to get to the point where Splitter would be comfortable and know his role in the offense. I really see no reason why it wouldn't be just as effective as a Blair/TD frontline. I think Splitter no question would be an upgrade defensively, and he's a much better offensive player than he showed in limited minutes last year. And I'm tired of watching Blair make a good post move only to duff the layup.

And IF Leonard can provide some good defense at small forward, it might even make the Bonner/Blair backup tandem feasible.

Mr Jastal, I have no idea why you are so high on Splitter - perhaps the guy owes you money, perhaps you're dating his sister, whatever...

Some of what you say is correct - he does have decent mobility and I agree that he should be just as effective if not MORE effective than a TD/Blair frontline.

However, no one, including you, should be of the mindset that Splitter is a PF that can be relied upon to bring the Spurs the title. His usefulness, if used appropriately, should be as the C of the future along side some other player playing PF. THAT PF isn't on the roster yet. So, as much as I actually appreciate some of your comments from time to time (and I realize I'm in the minority about that), the obsession to try and talk/blog/chat Splitter into something he's not is getting quite old. I know that this posting will probably result in a few immature personal attempts at insult about me personnally, but that won't help Splitter's cause either.

The guy is a Center. He walks like a center, acts like a center, rebounds like a center (marginally) and moves like a center. He is not and probably never will be a KG, TD, P Gasol, Aldridge or Stoudamire.

Let's hope that Pop and the FO can get him some legitimate and youthful help at the PF position soon.