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Koolaid_Man
07-17-2011, 10:33 PM
Kobe has an opportunity to do something legendary when he laces em up again. Win back 2 back this time without Phil and the Tri...talk about separation from MJ...





Shaw: Experience With Phil Jackson, Triangle Offense Looked Down Upon Around NBA

Jul 17, 2011 4:34 PM EDT

http://basketball.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/wiretap/photos/2006/Jackson_Phil_lal_091015.jpg
Former Los Angeles Lakers assistant coach Brian Shaw said his experience with Phil Jackson and the triangle offense contributed to him not getting the head coaching position with the Lakers.


“If I go into an interview with another team, even when I interviewed for the Lakers, talking about Phil Jackson or talking about his triangle offense ... I see the faces of general managers and owners cringe when I bring up his name and his offense, and I don't understand that, but I'm not ashamed of it,” Shaw told ESPNLosAngeles. “I'm proud of the fact that I played for him, and I coached under him, and that I was able to accomplish all of the success and gain all the experience that I was able to gain under him. I'm not going to duck my head or shy away from the fact that I was affiliated with Phil Jackson.



That's also the same reason why, or at least a big part of the reason why I'm not still with the Lakers, and neither of the other coaches -- Jim Cleamons and Frank Hamblen -- why we're not there, either.


"Just to feel like having all that experience and all the success and all those championships, that everybody that was on that staff kind of felt like we were out on the street, with nowhere to go," Shaw said. "He's a guy who is not arguably, but is the best, and the winningest, and the most successful coach in the history of professional sports, whose coaching staff it almost seems like we were lepers, and we had the plague, and nobody wanted to touch us. That's hard for me to understand."


Shaw also expressed his belief that Jackson’s assistants aren’t as highly regarded as Gregg Popovich’s.


“You look at Gregg Popovich and his staff, and the guys that have worked for that San Antonio organization, and getting jobs, and they're always at the front of the list and what have you,” Shaw said. “Then you have Phil Jackson, who has won all that he's won, and his staff has been with him a long time, that don't get the same opportunities, that don't get looked at the same way.”



Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/214772/Shaw_Experience_With_Phil_Jackson_Triangle_Offense _Looked_Down_Upon_Around_NBA#ixzz1SQLf0U9F

Ghazi
07-17-2011, 10:41 PM
EMfwGScYnPI

joshdaboss
07-18-2011, 05:18 AM
LOL @ this faggot/scrub Brian Shaw jealous of the Spurs. aaaaaaaaahahahaha

DMC
07-18-2011, 07:23 AM
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182438&highlight=Phil


The rewards for being a notorious leg rider are few and far in between.

Who here thinks the Lakers needed the triangle to win with the top of the list talent they've enjoyed?

lefty
07-18-2011, 08:54 AM
Lot of coaches have tried the triangle without success

jacobdrj
07-18-2011, 09:17 AM
Lot of coaches have tried the triangle without success

Everyone understands the Pick and Roll, so you don't have to teach much to young NBA talent. It is tried and true. It generally breeds success.

While hard to execute, I think most people understand the basic premise of the Motion 'Princeton' Offense. It boils down to always striving to be open, and passing to the open man.

The Triangle, however, is hard to learn, is not taught in HS or College, so every NBA player is starting from scratch, upon being drafted, and it requires a certain type of specific construction to be effective, starting with a trio of scorers, and 2 defensive wing-men, who can drop open 3 pointers. The scheme is predicated on at least 1 player who can demand a double-team.

I don't blame any GM who needs to hire a head coach (usually a young team) who wants to bother teaching the triangle to 15+ roster spots, when in all likelihood, that coach will be fired before anybody 'gets it'.

I think if Bill Cartwright replaced P-Jax in LA, he would have done quite well, but there was no chance he was going to succeed with that motley crew in the early 2000's Chicago...

Baseline
07-18-2011, 05:32 PM
In my opinion, Bryant has hurt the cause of Jackson's coaching staff, because Bryant didn't actually run the offense. What we've seen for the last few years has been a bunch of 8-feet long bigs running around in the lane, and Bryant doing whatever he wants. Which primarily meant him shooting any shot he sees.

So if Phil Jackson couldn't control Bryant, then how in the world would Brian Shaw be able to?

And another thing - was it any shock that Bryant wanted Shaw to be the new coach? Bryant would simply do whatever he wanted all over again.

The Laker FO screwed up by hiring Brown, but they would have made a bad decision in hiring Shaw as well.

TheMACHINE
07-18-2011, 07:12 PM
GM's dont like the triangle cuz you need smart players to do that offense...and you know how smart a majortiy of b-ball players are....makes it hard to be a GM.

mavsfan1000
07-18-2011, 07:14 PM
Only Phil Jackson has mastered it. It's more on the coach than the style of play imo.

LkrFan
07-18-2011, 07:22 PM
Everyone understands the Pick and Roll, so you don't have to teach much to young NBA talent. It is tried and true. It generally breeds success.

While hard to execute, I think most people understand the basic premise of the Motion 'Princeton' Offense. It boils down to always striving to be open, and passing to the open man.

The Triangle, however, is hard to learn, is not taught in HS or College, so every NBA player is starting from scratch, upon being drafted, and it requires a certain type of specific construction to be effective, starting with a trio of scorers, and 2 defensive wing-men, who can drop open 3 pointers. The scheme is predicated on at least 1 player who can demand a double-team.

I don't blame any GM who needs to hire a head coach (usually a young team) who wants to bother teaching the triangle to 15+ roster spots, when in all likelihood, that coach will be fired before anybody 'gets it'.

I think if Bill Cartwright replaced P-Jax in LA, he would have done quite well, but there was no chance he was going to succeed with that motley crew in the early 2000's Chicago...

Great post. Agreed 100%. It takes some players several years to know their role in this offense and even then some players never get it. Most GMs don't have the time to develop a roster upon the principles of the triangle. It's a "win now" league. In 2000, the Lakers could do it because they had arguably the 2 best players in the league. So even if the triangle wasn't ran to perfection, they can rely on their individual talents to carry the team when the triangle offense stalled. Young teams don't have that luxury nor the patience to properly implement it.

Shaw sounds like a beotch in that interview BTW. He's crazy if he thought Dr. Buss was going to give him the team after they just tuned out PJ. :lol I am not too crazy about the MB hire but he is more qualified than Shaw was as a candidate.

DMC
07-18-2011, 08:32 PM
That's the Spurs problem as well. Pop has/had a very complicated offensive scheme that he's all but abandoned in the past couple of years because new guys couldn't latch on to it.

Still, a great coach isn't necessarily a person who institutes a scheme to perfection, but one who gets the most out of the players he has. Phil has always needed top talent in order to be successful. Pop has made riches from rags.

ChuckD
07-18-2011, 09:09 PM
The only Laker assistant worth hiring would have been Tex Winter. The rest were pretty much clipboard holders.

Koolaid_Man
07-18-2011, 09:23 PM
That's the Spurs problem as well. Pop has/had a very complicated offensive scheme that he's all but abandoned in the past couple of years because new guys couldn't latch on to it.

Still, a great coach isn't necessarily a person who institutes a scheme to perfection, but one who gets the most out of the players he has. Phil has always needed top talent in order to be successful. Pop has made riches from rags.

but Phil was successful with Pippen and Kukoc....he didn't have MJ for a small period but his teams still succeeded.

Pops had good players as well so let's not exaggerate it....Robinson, Avery J, Bowen, Duncan, Parker, Ginobilli.... Pop just didn't have the bright lights of Chicago and LA

DMC
07-18-2011, 10:37 PM
but Phil was successful with Pippen and Kukoc....he didn't have MJ for a small period but his teams still succeeded.

Pops had good players as well so let's not exaggerate it....Robinson, Avery J, Bowen, Duncan, Parker, Ginobilli.... Pop just didn't have the bright lights of Chicago and LA

Every team has "good players".

The difference is that Pop won 4 championships with one 1st round pick and a bunch of players no one else wanted. Phil had his pick of the litter and you act as if he's NBA's Leonardo da Vinci.

He's a complicated guy, of that there's no doubt, but he never had control of a team he's "coached". He's been there for the wins, but then so has Horry. Like Horry, Phil picked his battles wisely, but Phil is no more a great coach than Horry a great player. They are both specialists and have had insane amounts of good fortune.