Greece defaults

[velik_m]

I can’t remember a major financial story which has been covered so inadequately by the financial press. All the incomprehensible eurospeak seems to have worked, along with the fact that the deal was announced in Brussels, where the general level of journalistic financial literacy is substantially lower than it is in London or New York or Frankfurt. On top of that, statements are coming from so many different directions — Eurocrats, heads of state, the Institute of International Finance, Greek officials, Portuguese and Irish officials, you name it — that it’s extremely hard to put it all together into one coherent whole.

more... (http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/)

[DarrinS]

I wonder what economic policies led to this?

[benefactor]

I'm sure a certain poster from Arkansas will be along shortly to sort all of this out for us.

[boutons_deux]

When Greece was campaigning to join EU, lots of people knew Greece was a basket case back then, unsuitable infrastructure, widespread corruption, inadequate legal system, political system, financial system, to be true Western country. Tax collection is a joke.

Doubters were right.

Of course, Wall St/Goldman was in there showing the Greek govt how to hide debt off books in risky, now disastrous, financial instruments.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Lets hope italy, portugal and spain is fkn next!!!

[boutons_deux]

Italy is also VERY wobbly.

[ElNono]

I wonder what economic policies led to this?

Too much spending without enough tax collection?

[DarrinS]

Too much spending without enough tax collection?

http://danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/greece31.jpg

[ElNono]

http://danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/greece31.jpg

Right. Too much spending without enough tax revenue.

[xeromass]

I wonder what economic policies led to this?


These:

Generations of Pork: How Greece's Political Elite Ruined the Country (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,772176,00.html)

Balkanska posla (Balkan business)

[ElNono]

tbh, all those rich greek basketball teams paying stupid money for shitty greek talent have something to do with it too

[boutons_deux]

"Generations of Pork: How Greece's Political Elite Ruined the Country"

UCA political/financial elite have ruined the USA for Human-Americans. In that sense, UCA is just like Greece.

[DarrinS]

"Generations of Pork: How Greece's Political Elite Ruined the Country"

UCA political/financial elite have ruined the USA for Human-Americans. In that sense, UCA is just like Greece.



Just wait until the baby boomers all retire, we grow the non-taxed class to 55%, and 1 in 4 workers is employed by the state. That is when we'll be truly fucked.

[RandomGuy]

I wonder what economic policies led to this?

Overly generous promises to penioners.
Rampant tax avoidance caused by weak tax enforcement.
Lots of red tape that cause labor market to be inflexible
borrowing too much during credit crisis
corruption in the government


Among others.

(edit)

Here is a search of the economist coverage, it is pretty thorough:
http://www.economist.com/search/apachesolr_search/greece%20economic%20problems

[boutons_deux]

"Just wait until the baby boomers all retire, we grow the non-taxed class to 55%"

YOU LIE

It’s A Myth That 47% Of Americans Pay No Taxes, In Truth 86% Pay Taxes

The 51 percent figure is an anomaly that reflects the unique circumstances of 2009, when the recession greatly swelled the number of Americans with low incomes and when temporary tax cuts created by the 2009 Recovery Act — including the “Making Work Pay” tax credit and an exclusion from tax of the first $2,400 in unemployment benefits — were in effect. Together, these developments removed millions of Americans from the federal income tax rolls. Both of these temporary tax measures have since expired.

Let me explain—repeat actually—what this means: About half of taxpayers paid no federal income tax last year. It does not mean they paid no tax at all. Many shelled out Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes. In fact, only 14 percent of Americans didn’t pay either income or payroll taxes. Some paid property taxes and, it is fair to say, just about all of them paid sales taxes of one kind or another. So to say they pay no taxes is flat wrong.

However, this class warfare-like rhetoric plays to a perception that the income tax is a chump tax: Only hard-working folks like us pay it. The welfare queens don’t. The super-rich don’t. It is a powerful emotional argument. It is also flat wrong.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/half-americans-taxes?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+politicususa%2FfJAl+%28Politi cus+USA+%29

Barack Obama Is Now The Biggest Tax Cutter In American History

http://www.politicususa.com/en/obama-great-tax-cutter

[spursncowboys]

The one financial person who did speak out against it was attacked personally by the WH.

[elbamba]

I wonder what economic policies led to this?

You cannot compare the USA to Greece. There is a difference between being in debt and choosing not to pay it and being in debt and being unable to pay it. America is the former and Greece is the latter.

[elbamba]

tbh, all those rich greek basketball teams paying stupid money for shitty greek talent have something to do with it too

Lies!

[RandomGuy]

Just wait until the baby boomers all retire, we grow the non-taxed class to 55%, and 1 in 4 workers is employed by the state. That is when we'll be truly fucked.

The coming oil crunch will create quite a few jobs in the energy sector, along with acting as an informal "tax" on goods that have to travel too far from where they are ultimately consumed (read: imported goods).

As the US imports less and less energy in the form of oil, and fewer goods, manufacturing will pick up some slack.

All is not doom and gloom padawan.

We can also throw open the doors for immigration at any time and create as many new workers as we want to.

Yeah, I went there. Hablas espanol? Takelmna Arabie?

[spursncowboys]

Right. Too much spending

Agreed.

[RandomGuy]

http://danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/greece31.jpg

Stats without context.

Maybe our resident context expert can tell us why these don't really mean much.

Somebody fire up the Cobra Signal!






Alternately, you can try to tell me what important data is missing here. I can, but will give you the chance to do the honest thing.

[boutons_deux]

"manufacturing will pick up some slack."

no, it won't. Cheap mfrs like Taiwan, China, Indonesia, India continue to increase their mfring expertise and capability.

China continues to screw the world by holding their currency artificially low-vs-$US to boost their exports.

Mfrg in USA is long gone, and it and its jobs ain't coming back.

China is beating US in cost of solar panels, wind turbines.

A huge slice, 1000s of tons, of the SFO Bay bridge was shipped from Korea recently. Buy American? Even US govt doesn't do that, unless forbidden from buying overseas.

[ChumpDumper]

The one financial person who did speak out against it was attacked personally by the WH.Against what?

Who?

[Wild Cobra]

http://danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/greece31.jpg
Ouch on both accounts.

[Wild Cobra]

It’s A Myth That 47% Of Americans Pay No Taxes, In Truth 86% Pay Taxes

That figure is federal income taxes only. It doesn't count Social Security, Medicare, state, local, sales taxes, fees, etc.

Why does the left continue to lie? It never was said to be more by those generating those numbers.

[Wild Cobra]

Stats without context.

Maybe our resident context expert can tell us why these don't really mean much.

Somebody fire up the Cobra Signal!

Like you, I can only assume without research. Having done none yet on Greece, I will assume that they have socialized medicine included in the revenue and spending. Possible a retirement system that shells out more than our SS as well.


Alternately, you can try to tell me what important data is missing here. I can, but will give you the chance to do the honest thing.

GDI would be a help to see, but I'm not sure what you're looking for.

[ElNono]

Like you, I can only assume without research. Having done none yet on Greece, I will assume that they have socialized medicine included in the revenue and spending. Possible a retirement system that shells out more than our SS as well.

Well, those are not necessarily factors... Canada has 'socialized medicine' and has a balanced budget with a surplus and has been paying down it's debt.

There's actual analysis linked to in this thread so you don't have to guess.

[Wild Cobra]

Well, those are not necessarily factors... Canada has 'socialized medicine' and has a balanced budget with a surplus and has been paying down it's debt.

There's actual analysis linked to in this thread so you don't have to guess.
Canada has a large national income from oil and timber. probably other commodities like grains. What does Greece have?

[ElNono]

Canada has a large national income from oil and timber. probably other commodities like grains. What does Greece have?

Tourism? I don't think Greece was always bankrupt.

Canada also was under a pile of debt a while ago. They've been able to turn it around without having to gut what they deem essential services like government funded healthcare.

From the analysis I've been able to read, Greece seem to be your typical case of political corruption, coupled with a few more factors...

[ChumpDumper]

Canada has a large national income from oil and timber. probably other commodities like grains. What does Greece have?What does Germany have?

[ChumpDumper]

From the analysis I've been able to read, Greece seem to be your typical case of political corruption, coupled with a few more factors...I don't think it's typical; it's rather extraordinary for a European country.

[ElNono]

I don't think it's typical; it's rather extraordinary for a European country.

Well, I meant is: what you normally see in cases of massive political corruption. Uncommon in Europe, but not uncommon in third world countries.

[boutons_deux]

Many Europeans, esp those who do business with Greece, don't think Greece qualifies as EU country, is absolutely not your typical (western) European country.

It was run by the damn Turks for 400 years. :)

[velik_m]

Greece is a typical Balkan country, not that we're any better...

[Winehole23]

hopefully the US is next. Hopefully? Why's that?

[Winehole23]

that makes you lol?

[Iakchos Kadmos]

The US of A is next my friends. Greece will recover and all will be well. In my town of Krokos we are already removing the mayor from power. He has already tried to seize all the best love making goats available and left us with scrawny goats. We are in hopes that the one you know as Kill Bill Pana has seen our plight and will assume control of our town. Already we are making banners and have assembled a basketball team for in which to put on an exhibition game. Once we have figured out which players are men and which are women we will organize the team accordingly. It took all of our money but we were able to purchase wonderful uniforms for our team.

[Wild Cobra]

From the analysis I've been able to read, Greece seem to be your typical case of political corruption, coupled with a few more factors...
Any democratic elected political structure that is socialistic will have all kinds of political corruption. Just look at the democrats here!

[ChumpDumper]

Any democratic elected political structure that is socialistic will have all kinds of political corruption. Just look at the democrats here!So Republicans have never been guilty of corruption ever?

[Wild Cobra]

So Republicans have never been guilty of corruption ever?
Sure, some have. However, to get elected in a socialistic structure, means giving the people excessive pork!

[Winehole23]

May speculative philosophy bless you for all your contributions, and your many sensitive and gently nuanced ruminations here.


My own feelings about what you say are somewhat less benevolent.

[Winehole23]

(belch)

[ChumpDumper]

Sure, some have. However, to get elected in a socialistic structure, means giving the people excessive pork!That's not corruption.

You're all over the map.

Drunk?

[Wild Cobra]

That's not corruption.

You're all over the map.

Drunk?
I guess that depends on your definition of corruption. I consider it so. It's a form of buying votes.

Actually, not long ago, I just walked home from a bar where I had several adult beverages!

[ChumpDumper]

I guess that depends on your definition of corruption. I consider it so. It's a form of buying votes.So you're saying pretty much all Republicans are corrupt.

OK.

[Wild Cobra]

So you're saying pretty much all Republicans are corrupt.

OK.
Did the Chicken or the Egg come first?

Sure, many republicans are corrupt. However, do they as a whole, get their war chests filled by catering to corporate America, or does corporate America fill their coffers because the republicans believe as they do?

[ChumpDumper]

Did the Chicken or the Egg come first?

Sure, many republicans are corrupt. However, do they as a whole, get their war chests filled by catering to corporate America, or does corporate America fill their coffers because the republicans believe as they do?Doesn't matter. By your definition, pretty much every Republican is corrupt.

Feel free to walk back if you want.

[Wild Cobra]

Doesn't matter. By your definition, pretty much every Republican is corrupt.

Feel free to walk back if you want.
Actually, it can be said of both parties. Do the politicians get financing because they already champion a cause, or do they champion a cause because that's where the money is? That's the difficult part to determine.

I already have primarily conservative.libertarian views and am not paid for them. Would I be accused for supporting the same causes I already do if I were a politician getting money from the groups that benefit from my viewpoint, if I could make it happen? Hell yes. i would be accused of being bought, even though i already share such views.

[ChumpDumper]

Actually, it can be said of both parties.Right, you tried to say only Democrats.

By your definition, Republicans are just as corrupt.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

These too much spending vs. not enough taxing arguments are so fuckin stupid. There's too much spending AND there's also not enough taxing. Giving out free healthcare to every obese chain smoker in this country or making it possible to earn unemployment benefits while doing nothing to look for a new job are both examples of retarded spending policies, and the low tax rate for dividend income is just as retarded when some people make hundreds of millions off dividends every year. Low spending + low taxes is no more/less stupid than high spending + high taxes. Both drastic government spending cuts and significant tax hikes (particularly on the wealthy) will be needed to create surpluses.

One thing that's funny though, is how the Republican party suddenly became concerned about America's rapidly growing national deficit and out-of-control government spending once Obama took office. From 2001-2008, when Bush was turning Clinton's national surpluses into (at the time) record national deficits, and throwing over one trillion dollars into a war that did absolutely nothing for America, Republicans didn't show one iota of concern about balancing the budget. Suddenly the budget became a big deal when a Democratic president was irresponsible with it.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Any democratic elected political structure that is socialistic will have all kinds of political corruption. Just look at the democrats here!
Can you point out all the socialist corruption that exists in Canada?

[ElNono]

Can you point out all the socialist corruption that exists in Canada?

:lol

Or Germany...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The average American probably thinks socialism is the same thing as Nazism because of how much Republicans have demonized the word, similar to how Republicans demonize smart people who graduate from Ivy league colleges by calling them "elitists" :lmao

[boutons_deux]

Many modern, industrial countries are very successful, stable social democracies.

Unregulated capitalism in UCA has proven, again, to be a huge fuckup (Great Depression, and the current Great Banksters' Depression, etc), a disaster, delivering the goods only for a few, delivering the bads for the majority. Human-Americans should learn from other countries that the USA need more socialism (esp hard-core public health insurance option, and the US-govt as hard-ass singleer-buyer to BigPharma), not less.

The long and deep corruption of the Greek kleptocratic plutocracy, private and public, is a lesson for the USA as what will (continue to) happen as the UCA and capitalists continue to fuck Human-Americans harder and faster and deeper.

2012 will be a watershed. If the VRWC/Repug scorched earthers (in more than one sense scorched: environment, destruction of the country, and flaming assholes) win control of the Congress and the Exec, and more state elections, they will certainly accelerate the death spiral for the majority of Human-Americans.

[boutons_deux]

Silver-spooner Steve Forbes has been heading up a troupe of "disaster capitalism" hyenas who intend to scavenge Greece, paying way under market prices.

[scott]

The average American probably thinks socialism is the same thing as Nazism because of how much Republicans have demonized the word, similar to how Republicans demonize smart people who graduate from Ivy league colleges by calling them "elitists" :lmao

"Intellectuals"

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

^Yeah that's another one. I just know Sarah Palin constantly refers to educated smart people as "The Elite," as if anyone who isn't a retarded construction worker with no post-HS education should fear the "elite".

[DarkReign]

^Yeah that's another one. I just know Sarah Palin constantly refers to educated smart people as "The Elite," as if anyone who isn't a retarded construction worker with no post-HS education should fear the "elite".

From a strictly American context, that particular individual should fear the "elite".

[Winehole23]

http://www.haaretz.com/themarker/germany-bracing-for-greek-default-1.338034

[Winehole23]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/12/us-eurozone-idUSTRE78B24R20110912

[Winehole23]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-12/italy-sells-11-billion-euros-of-bills-as-debt-crisis-sends-yields-surging.html

[mingus]

i don't know how employment is going to get fixed w/o lowering the taxes significantly and not having as many regulations for businesses. i have cousins in New York who moved their business (which employs 2,500+) to China because it's easier to do business over there. there are plenty of stories like this. you average businesses think it's too difficult to do business here because of national policies. so they go somewhere else. it's not a difficult concept to grasp. businesses are going to maximize profit. policies should help them do that here in the U.S. if you don't believe that then it makes no sense to whine about unemployment.

[ElNono]

i don't know how employment is going to get fixed w/o lowering the taxes significantly and not having as many regulations for businesses. i have cousins in New York who moved their business (which employs 2,500+) to China because it's easier to do business over there. there are plenty of stories like this. you average businesses think it's too difficult to do business here because of policies here. so they go somewhere else. it's not a difficult concept to grasp. businesses are going to maximize potential. policies should help them do that here in the U.S. if you don't believe that then it makes no sense to whine about unemployment.

Are you talking about Greece or the US?

Germany did it using price controls. Obviously, you'll get a healthy dose of posters here crying you a river for even suggesting that.

[boutons_deux]

"lowering the taxes significantly and not having as many regulations for businesses"

neither of which have anything to do with hiring when DEMAND is down, and people are insecure about their future financial prospects.

China is a shithole for workers and the environment, as well has subsidizing their companies with $100Bs (those $Bs being heavily from under-priced/dumped exports to USA), and holding their currency -30% below where it should be.

[mingus]

Are you talking about Greece or the US?

Germany did it using price controls. Obviously, you'll get a healthy dose of posters here crying you a river for even suggesting that.

i'm talking about the U.S.

[ElNono]

i'm talking about the U.S.

How you explain the US not having this job problem with much higher taxes?
I mean, historically these are the lowest tax rates this country ever had.

[ElNono]

I think the problem goes beyond the US. One of the shitty sides of globalization is that you also expose yourself to other country economic problems. The economy is simply a global mesh, and not what it used to be.

[mingus]

How you explain the US not having this job problem with much higher taxes?
I mean, historically these are the lowest tax rates this country ever had.

you talk to businessmen like my cousin and they'll tell you the same thing: business is too regulated, taxes are too high. maybe the tax rates and standards of yesteryear don't matter any more. we live in a global economy. things have changed. other countries' economies are exploitable and businesses in trying to maximize profits move there. it isn't the same way it used to be.

[mingus]

I think the problem goes beyond the US. One of the shitty sides of globalization is that you also expose yourself to other country economic problems. The economy is simply a global mesh, and not what it used to be.

yup

[RandomGuy]

you talk to businessmen like my cousin and they'll tell you the same thing: business is too regulated, taxes are too high. maybe the tax rates and standards of yesteryear don't matter any more. we live in a global economy. things have changed. other countries' economies are exploitable and businesses in trying to maximize profits move there. it isn't the same way it used to be.

"Businessmen" always bitch about taxes and regulation, but when you ask them to tell you how specifically they are "too regulated" you get a blank stare.

[ElNono]

you talk to businessmen like my cousin and they'll tell you the same thing: business is too regulated, taxes are too high. maybe the tax rates and standards of yesteryear don't matter any more. we live in a global economy. things have changed. other countries' economies are exploitable and businesses in trying to maximize profits move there. it isn't the same way it used to be.

I'm a minority owner myself, and have to deal with competing with cheap labor out there. I just won't find a computer programmer willing to work for $10/hour here like you'll find in India or Russia. Higher/lower taxes, more/less regulations isn't changing that either. We just try to offer a quality product and top of the line customer support, which makes people feel they're getting their money's worth. It's all we can do until some of those other economies catch up to us in the standard of living department.

[boutons_deux]

"other countries' economies are exploitable and businesses in trying to maximize profits move there."

The UCA "globalizers/free-traders" always knew that, going back 30 years, and pushed hard.

Now we see how pitting US workers against Chinese/Indian/etc workers is screwing Human-Americans, and enriching Corporate-Americans.

[Wild Cobra]

"Businessmen" always bitch about taxes and regulation, but when you ask them to tell you how specifically they are "too regulated" you get a blank stare.
Probably because they can't believe such a stupid question was asked. Just keeping track of all the legalities is a mess.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm a minority owner myself, and have to deal with competing with cheap labor out there. I just won't find a computer programmer willing to work for $10/hour here like you'll find in India or Russia. Higher/lower taxes, more/less regulations isn't changing that either. We just try to offer a quality product and top of the line customer support, which makes people feel they're getting their money's worth. It's all we can do until some of those other economies catch up to us in the standard of living department.
Back in the 90's, we had a guy who wrote the company machine control software. He only charged $100/hr to come to the site and make changes, but some things you can't outsource. Have to be with a working machine to write the code and test in real time.

[boutons_deux]

Regulations, taxes aren't killing small business, owners say


"Government regulations are not 'choking' our business, the hospitality business," Bernard Wolfson, the president of Hospitality Operations in Miami, told The Miami Herald. "In order to do business in today's environment, government regulations are necessary and we must deal with them. The health and safety of our guests depend on regulations. It is the government regulations that help keep things in order."


None of the business owners complained about regulation in their particular industries, and most seemed to welcome it. Some pointed to the lack of regulation in mortgage lending as a principal cause of the financial crisis that brought about the Great Recession of 2007-09 and its grim aftermath.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/01/122865/regulations-taxes-arent-killing.html?storylink=addthis#.TmI9vBd399E.twitte r

[ElNono]

Fact is big business aren't losing money. They're just not making jobs here, and they're trying to shed as many as they can locally too (see: Verizon record profits, followed by their attempts to shaft their landline union workers).

[Winehole23]

Greece (http://topics.bloomberg.com/greece/) has a 98 percent chance of defaulting on its debt in the next five years as Prime Minister George Papandreou (http://topics.bloomberg.com/george-papandreou/) fails to reassure investors his country can survive the euro-region crisis.


“Everyone’s pricing in a pretty near-term default and I think it’ll be a hard event,” said Peter Tchir, founder of hedge fund TF Market Advisors in New York (http://topics.bloomberg.com/new-york/). “Clearly this austerity plan is not working.”


It costs a record $5.8 million upfront and $100,000 annually to insure $10 million of Greece’s debt for five years using credit-default swaps, up from $5.5 million in advance on Sept. 9, according to CMA. Greek bonds plunged, sending the 10- year yield to 25 percent for the first time.http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-12/greece-s-risk-of-default-increases-to-98-as-european-debt-crisis-deepens.html

[boutons_deux]

Many said Greece should have never been let into the EU. They are proven correct.

[Winehole23]

We can no longer borrow dollars. U.S. money-market funds are not lending to us anymore," a bank executive for BNP Paribas, who declines to be named, told me last week. "Since we don't have access to dollars anymore, we're creating a market in euros. This is a first. . . . We hope it will work, otherwise the downward spiral will be hell. We will no longer be trusted at all and no one will lend to us anymore."http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904353504576566821711712348.html

[velik_m]

Many said Greece should have never been let into the EU. They are proven correct.

You mean EMU? Yes, it was well known that Greece and Italy used a lot of "creative" accounting to meet the criteria for euro.

We should at least take some collateral before lending them money, like one of their islands or something. Now we'll be left with nothing. And for what? So that Greeks can maintain higher living standard than we have?

[Yonivore]

I think that whole EU experiment is about done.

[ElNono]

I think that whole EU experiment is about done.

Far from it...

[Wild Cobra]

Far from it...
True, they still have a few wealthy to snuff out.

[ElNono]

True, they still have a few wealthy to snuff out.

You mean like NAFTA?

[Wild Cobra]

You mean like NAFTA?
WTF?

Elaborate where that comes from please.

[ElNono]

WTF?

Elaborate where that comes from please.

Mexico unemployment rate: 5.7%
US unemployment rate: 9.1%

Need I say more?

[Wild Cobra]

Mexico unemployment rate: 5.7%
US unemployment rate: 9.1%

Need I say more?

That's a different topic. NAFTA didn't send that many jobs there. Besides, what would our unemployment rate be if people here didn't feel entitled, and worked for any job they could get, like they do in Mexico?

[ElNono]

Is it? I thought we were talking about snuffing out the wealthy. 85% of all Mexico exports go into the US. Compare to 2% to Canada. And NAFTA sent a shitloads of jobs over there. Heck, it's still a boon to the border cities (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/06/us-mexico-usa-exports-idUSTRE74569E20110506), despite the drug violence.

[ElNono]

And why don't you take a $5/hour job and tell me how you make ends meet? It's a lot cheaper to live in Mexico.

[Wild Cobra]

And why don't you take a $5/hour job and tell me how you make ends meet? It's a lot cheaper to live in Mexico.
Been there, done that, in the past.

It's not easy, but then I have the dignity to work.

[ElNono]

Been there, done that, in the past.

It's not easy, but then I have the dignity to work.

So how did you make ends meet? Explain how were you paying your doctor out of pocket for your kid while working for $5/hour, and still getting fed, dressed, etc.

Sounds like you're full of shit, tbh

[DarkReign]

WC, youre delusional on the effects of NAFTA, before, now and in the future. There is a reason the US doesnt care that their nearest neighbor is a shithole, 3rd world country.

That is all.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Besides, what would our unemployment rate be if people here didn't feel entitled, and worked for any job they could get, like they do in Mexico?
Good question tbh. We should model ourselves more around countries like Somalia, Mexico, and other 3rd world shitholes.