Better Defender, Dirk vs. Bird

[cheguevara]

which of these white breads was a better NBA defender in their prime??

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vs.

WBJwO608QSU

[stretch]

neither are/were particularly good. but both could provide help in different ways.

Bird had good anticipation for getting steals and would hustle. However he couldn't keep up with any decent scorers defensively.

Dirk actually plays decent straight man defense, and uses his size and positioning to help out for team defense. His drawback is his laziness in help defense, often standing and watching as a man blows past both his teammate and himself.

[Fpoonsie]

I like Bird, but that vid was always terribly embarrassing. It's ONE thing to get dunked on (Hell, 'nique made a living doing it), but to fall down, cross your arms and seemingly pout on the court was quite another.

[cheguevara]

good points. IMO Bird had better hands and ball IQ, both had equal foot speed. Dirk does have a little better size, both are probably equal in strength and jumping ability.

So it's size vs. hand speed + ball IQ. I would give Bird the nod.

Also Bird was a lot more rough and would give cheap fouls once in a while and get in ppls face. Dirk is too nice defensively.

[thispego]

lol being mexican in the land of the white man

[stretch]

good points. IMO Bird had better hands and ball IQ, both had equal foot speed. Dirk does have a little better size, both are probably equal in strength and jumping ability.

So it's size vs. hand speed + ball IQ. I would give Bird the nod.

Also Bird was a lot more rough and would give cheap fouls once in a while and get in ppls face. Dirk is too nice defensively.

I won't disagree with this.

Basically, Dirk has tools to be better defensively, while Bird gives more effort.

I would probably give Bird the nod, but its a little tough too, because they defend different types of players. Dirk is usually pitted more against big men, while Bird would be defending against players who would put the ball on the floor more. It may depend on what you want for your team. If you need more paint presence, Dirk. If you need hustle and energy, Bird.

[stretch]

lol being mexican in the land of the white man

sup mikey

[thispego]

uh, sup?

[Dunc n Dave]

Bird.... you can't teach hustle. You either do it, or you don't.

[chichi!gettheyeyo]

lol being mexican in the land of the white man

why don't cha stick jour head up jour ass. see if it fitz

[BlackSwordsMan]

pego's asshole is polluted

[badfish22]

you can't teach hustle. You either do it, or you don't.

:lol quintessential gnsf

[Lincoln]

:lmao gnsf

[mavsfan1000]

Definitely Bird.

[pass1st]

Bird puts more effort on defense and reacts faster. Neither were good, though

[LnGrrrR]

lol being mexican in the land of the white man

I'm not sure that San Antonio is still the "land of the white man" anymore. :lol

[Dunc n Dave]

:lol quintessential gnsf

says the quintessential Mavs homer with Dirk's cock in his mouth... :toast

[Dunc n Dave]

dirk's cock in his mouth! oh noe, that's nassssssssssty!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--4SHeuarx-Y/TZnN2q-ORWI/AAAAAAAAClM/0z79B3spBx8/s1600/melora+walters.jpg

[badfish22]

says the quintessential Mavs homer with Dirk's cock in his mouth... :toast

Believe.

[Fenix]

larry bird was on the all defense team. dirk can only dream of that

[Dunc n Dave]

larry bird was on the all defense team. dirk can only dream of that

Good point. Larry made All Defensive Team 3 consecutive times from 82 to 84.

Larry 3 > Dirk 0

/end thread

[DMC]

I have an idea: Let's show people getting dunked on then say they aren't good defenders.

Then, let's show people blocking a shot and say they are the greatest defenders ever.

God I love confirmation bias.

[DMC]

I'm not sure that San Antonio is still the "land of the white man" anymore. :lol
Pretty much never was.

[Jodelo]

Good point. Larry made All Defensive Team 3 consecutive times from 82 to 84.

Larry 3 > Dirk 0

/end thread

Kobe made the All-Defensive team in 2011, don´t see your point...

Not saying that Dirk was better though!

[Dunc n Dave]

Kobe made the All-Defensive team in 2011, don´t see your point...

Not saying that Dirk was better though!


This question posed in this thread is who is the better defender: Dirk or Bird.

All Defensive Teams seem pretty relevant to me in an argument about defense, but maybe I'm wrong...

[Jodelo]

This question posed in this thread is who is the better defender: Dirk or Bird.

All Defensive Teams seem pretty relevant to me in an argument about defense, but maybe I'm wrong...

Just wanted to point out that the teams are jokes at times, like with the Kobe the last 2-3 years...

[Dunc n Dave]

Just wanted to point out that the teams are jokes at times, like with the Kobe the last 2-3 years...

You're right in that some people make the All Defensive team based off their stats (namely steals and blocks). That's because when you let local media guys select the teams, you always get guys who know very little about players outside of their coverage area. So they comb the stat sheets and make their selections that way.

Bird averaged just under 1 block and 2 steals a game those 3 years he was All Defense. Respectable numbers, for sure, but his hustle (diving for loose balls, etc.) is also what got him on the All Defensive Team those 3 years.

Mavs fans have admitted that Dirk is lazy on defense, and the media talking heads have agreed over the years, never having voted him to an All Defensive Team. Bird is also a good 3 inches shorter than Dirk, yet averages the same number of blocked shots, despite playing small forward for a good chunk of his career (alongside McHale and Parish), while Dirk has played PF.

[DMC]

If you listen to interviews of players from the Bird era, they all say he couldn't defend.

[Dunc n Dave]

If you listen to interviews of players from the Bird era, they all say he couldn't defend.

Who specifically? Dominique Wilkins maybe? Who COULD defend that freak of nature back then? Definitely not a slow, white guy from French Lick.

Same could be said about Dirk. Only Larry has 3 All Defense selections to combat the nay-sayers with, while Dirk has 0.