LMAO Texas bible thumpers

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-people/rick-perry/thousands-attend-prayer-rally-houston/


Perry took to the stage shortly before noon, sounding like a revivalist preacher as he urged participants to embrace Jesus and pray for help at a time of economic decline and family strife."I'm a stupid fuck who has no real solution to the economic problems, lets pray god can help us :cry:cry:cry!"

[dirk4mvp]

I think someone should link this thread to 90210 and make sure he sees it.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I think someone should link this thread to 90210 and make sure he sees it.
:lol

[baseline bum]

Here Jesus, take the wheel.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

“We’ve come to the end of our rope. And we have come here to day to call on the lord for a miracle," Dobson said. "I believe God is going to hear our prayer today." During the ceremony, worshipers — some speaking in Spanish — came on stage to pray for an end to "abortion in America," racism, the breakdown of the family and other social ills.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Wild Cobra]

Sorry I stepped in this room. You bigots make me sick.

Bye...

[Wild Cobra's Surgeon]

You bigots make me sick.

Well said, I concur.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Sorry I stepped in this room. You bigots make me sick.

Bye...
:lmao

[ElNono]

Well said, I concur.

:lmao

[boutons_deux]

Television/political "Chrstianity" is the opium of the masses.

What a bunch of ignorant, suckered dumbfucks.

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry I stepped in this room. You bigots make me sick.

Bye...
“We’ve come to the end of our rope. And we have come here to day to call on the lord for a miracle," Dobson said. "I believe God is going to hear our prayer today." During the ceremony, worshipers — some speaking in Spanish — came on stage to pray for an end to "abortion in America," racism, the breakdown of the family and other social ills.You missed a good shooting opportunity tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao these people prolly think giving 10% of their annual income to the church (A.K.A. their pastors new car fund) is increasing the chance of god solving their financial problems

[Nbadan]

Perry is firing up Dobson and his gang of christian fundamentalists ....possible run maybe?

[djohn2oo8]

Well said, I concur.
:lmao

[Trainwreck2100]

believing in God doesn't make you a fool, it's blindly believing in these preachers that does

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

believing in God doesn't make you a fool, it's blindly believing in these preachers that does
Agreed, or believing that there's a chance divine intervention is what'll save the US economy :lmao

[ChuckD]

Here Jesus, take the wheel.


Rick Perry: "Turn to God to solve America's problems." God: "Better me than Rick Perry."

:lol :lmao

[redzero]

God is too busy helping athletes win to help solve the financial crisis.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

God is too busy helping athletes win to help solve the financial crisis.
He's also busy telling Angel_Luv to quit from her job at the mall and make sure some meatloaf is ready for Bo when he gets home from the job at Jiffy Lube god told him to drop out of school for.

[Ignignokt]

hhahahah... Perry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama in handling economic matters.

[baseline bum]

The only thing Perry has going for him is his hair (which makes him very electable).

[fraga]

2OD_zI4dib4

[boutons_deux]

Ricky Bobby "I Love Baby Jesus" Perry's TX is nearly $20B debt.

[ElNono]

The only thing Perry has going for him is his hair (which makes him very electable).

Related: Hair Industry Thrives In a Weak Economy (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/us/07hair.html?hp)

[ChumpDumper]

hhahahah... Perry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama in handling economic matters.True, Perry just used the money Obama gave him to balance the budget.

[DarrinS]

Why does this get people's panties in a bunch?

[DarrinS]

Gatherings of atheists don't even register on my radar.

[DMX7]

well said, i concur.

lmao ftmfw!!!

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

hhahahah... Perry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Obama in handling economic matters.
Funny, I don't see anything in the OP about Obama

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Why does this get people's panties in a bunch?
Finding it hilarious that there are Americans dumb enough to think god and/or jeebus are gonna save the economy isn't exactly "getting your panties in a bunch"

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

country's downfall economically coincides perfectly with the decline in christian morals and values in this country tbh, and the worse it gets the worse the economy gets imho. no denying that.
No it doesn't. Reagan was all about "Christian morals" and he was the cause of America's economic downfall.

Either way, one has nothing to do with the other.

[Ignignokt]

No it doesn't. Reagan was all about "Christian morals" and he was the cause of America's economic downfall.

Either way, one has nothing to do with the other.


hahhahahahahahahhahaha okay. Military spending is only 19 percent of the budget if you cut out veterans benefits. Entitlement spending is fucking us.

[Ignignokt]

it doesn't what reagan faked to be about, he doesn't represent every other citizen of this country. family values have been going down the shitter ever since around the time the economy started fucking up, and the worse things get the worse the economy gets.

bro.. this has nothing to do with mommy calling daddeh sugar plum and beaver eating his vegetables. It has to do with our morality concerning wealth creation and our failure as a country to capitulate to 19th austro hungrarian century born statism.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

hahhahahahahahahhahaha okay. Military spending is only 19 percent of the budget if you cut out veterans benefits. Entitlement spending is fucking us.
huh?


This thread is about people being retarded and thinking divine intervention will save the economy, it has nothing to do with Obama's retarded spending.

[Ignignokt]

People don't even know how to properly critique the laffer curve or trickle down economics. Reagan and the Democrat controlled legislature increased entitlement and military spending were the reason why the deficit grew in the 80's, it wasn't because of lowering tax cuts itself. Lowering tax cuts can increase revenue when the private sector is ready to breach new markets. In the 80's the semitech silicon valley sector was booming and that would have provided us enough cover cept for the fact that time we increased entitlement spending along with military.

At least military spending is sanctioned in the constitution.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Spending is fucking us, but so is the tax system ignig. Decreasing spending AND increasing certain taxes is the only way that create significant surpluses. One without the other won't do enough.

[Ignignokt]

huh?


This thread is about people being retarded and thinking divine intervention will save the economy, it has nothing to do with Obama's retarded spending.

I'm no mystic, but at best it's just people wishing that politicians would wisen up. It's funny to antagonize bible belt people but at the same time, they're not thinking that "God" is going to majically balance the budget with a majic wand.

In either way, i don't feel the need to be hostile. Shit, these people are the reason the state of Der Yisrael still has america's backing. So why bite the hand that feeds ya?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

People don't even know how to properly critique the laffer curve or trickle down economics. Reagan and the Democrat controlled legislature increased entitlement and military spending were the reason why the deficit grew in the 80's, it wasn't because of lowering tax cuts itself. Lowering tax cuts can increase revenue when the private sector is ready to breach new markets. In the 80's the semitech silicon valley sector was booming and that would have provided us enough cover cept for the fact that time we increased entitlement spending along with military.

At least military spending is sanctioned in the constitution.
That's why you significantly increase dividend income taxes. The rich sector has no interest in breaching new markets when they can generate tons of income off dividends and preferred stock but pay next to nothing in taxes.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Shit, these people are the reason the state of Der Yisrael still has america's backing. So why bite the hand that feeds ya?
Great argument, since I live in Israel and not America.

[Ignignokt]

That's why you significantly increase dividend income taxes. The rich sector has no interest in breaching new markets when they can generate tons of income off dividends and preferred stock but pay next to nothing in taxes.

You got to be kidding, the rich are the ones who create wealth in this country? Do you think ma Parker and her 230 dollar SS check helped spark the semitech revolution?

You can't keep the welfare state alive if you punish the Capitalist Cows who provide the milk.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

i just find it a funny coincidence that this country was founded on christian values and prospered from the start, as soon as we start turning into a liberal abortionist homosexual state shit hits the fan.
Yeah, we had so much better values when "Christian organizations" like the KKK were allowed to discriminate gays and minorities at will.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You got to be kidding, the rich are the ones who create wealth in this country? Do you think ma Parker and her 230 dollar SS check helped spark the semitech revolution?

You can't keep the welfare state alive if you punish the Capitalist Cows who provide the milk.
Letting money sit in stocks and collect dividends doesn't create any wealth. If you give the rich financial incentive to explore new markets they will.

[Ignignokt]

Letting money sit in stocks and collect dividends doesn't create any wealth. If you give the rich financial incentive to explore new markets they will.

That's right, the govt needs to tell professionals how to invest.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

That's right, the govt needs to tell professionals how to invest.
When they don't money sits and stays at the top.

Whats funny is how much you care so much about the rich's well being and being worth billions instead of millions, when they don't give two shits about you.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

you're the king of pointing at a small group of people or a small example and using it to represent the whole.
:lol prior to the civil rights movement and Christian values "falling apart", the KKK wasn't a small group. It was millions of people who considered themselves "Christians", and the Christian religion for the most part accepted them. It wasn't like Westboro baptists being outcast by the Church. The KKK was deeply involved with the Church.

[ElNono]

Clearly this country started going to shit when negroes and women started voting. If we could only go back to the good ol' moral standards

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Clearly this country started going to shit when negroes and women started voting. If we could only go back to the good ol' moral standards
:lmao

[Ignignokt]

btw letting money sit in stocks helps create stability and wealth. i seriously don't know how you can encourage the rich to invest if you're idea of incentives is to have this egalitarian game of "fair" markets, anti trust bust, let's-punish-good-buisinesses-if-they-get-too-big laws that don't encourage people to maximize the potential out of their buisiness.

And while your cartoonish description of the rich being some fat bloke with pinstripes, a top hat, eating cucumber sandwiches and clipping bond coupons all day image allows you to think the way you do. The reality is that markets are dynamic and change. If there is no innovation, then companies get phased like the kerosene market did to the light bulb etc. And to have innovation, you need people to have more of the money they make so that they can invest in more risky ways so that there can be new products.

The whole notion that high marginal tax rates and heavy govt regulation is gonna bring us back to the glory days of yore in the eisenhower age is silly. We're not post World war 2 america who were the only major superpower who had their industrial base intact after the war, who benefiited by not having air raids demolish whole cities, and therefore allow it to be by default and providence the world's leading manufacturer. We know longer have a manufacturing base, so we can no longer go back to that model.

Now, we have to change with the international markets and allow free trade to keep prices here in check. The less central planning you have in Govt, the more the market has the ability to thrive. Otherwise protectionism under the guise of progressive principles, and fair play only keep the huge corporations more powerful because they get and advantage at fighting the regulations with their money base compared to the Ma and Pa.


You want to carry on, and hope that we all buy american again, and that we will moral choice in the market, but all you will have is calamity. The market is based on a principle of voluntary transaction, if the govt messes with that principle, then you have a market that deals with force.

And you wonder why Labor organizations on one end are powerless against Crony corporations, and on the other former succesful corporations are held hostage by parastical unions, and why the INDIVIDUAL worker is powerless against bargaining for a pay raise against his employer, and why whole state budget's are hostage to public sector unions.

Dealing by force in the market, whether it be through wage controls, price controls, anti trusts, Wagner act, govt subsidies, etc are what takes the "voluntary" out of transactions in a supposed free society.

[Ignignokt]

Clearly this country started going to shit when negroes and women started voting. If we could only go back to the good ol' moral standards

I don't know whether you are using blue text to show pride for Nazirgentina, or for being sarcastic, or both.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

If there is no innovation, then companies get phased like the kerosene market did to the light bulb etc.
Wrong. American car companies have no innovation for years and have gotten clobbered by Japanese car companies in sales, but because Republicans are so concerned with keeping the rich "wealthy and stable", they get their losses subsidized and get bailed out when they're on the verge of bankruptcy.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

And the reason America is no longer the manufacturing capital of the world is because of deregulations that allowed companies to ship production to other countries (which was just as much Clinton as it was Reagan).

There's no real solution to America's economic problems when we import WAY more than we export.

[Ignignokt]

Wrong. American car companies have no innovation and have gotten clobbered by Japanese car companies in sales, but because Republicans are so concerned with keeping the rich "wealthy and stable", they get their losses subsidized and get bailed out when they're on the verge of bankruptcy.

Wow, where do i begin. First of all, trade protectionism is apparent in both parties. The obama administration bailed out GM.

Republicans are not necessarily free market principled either, and you're demonization of the rich is ridiculous.

In the nineteenth century we had the largest increase percentage wise of poor moving to the middle class, and middle class to rich. That was an era of smaller govt and regulation.

Ofcourse, you're going to point out a propaganda book like the Urban jungle that misrepresents the Meat packing industry issue of that time. (the meat packing industry actually lobbied for the regulation Sinclair was proposing so that the regional buisinesses in the midwest would edge out all other competitors nation wide).. and you're prolly gonna point out the migrant workers condition in the inner cities like chicago and new york. But what you will fail to notice is that the nineteenth century was a transition from the harsh life of the agriculutural economy to the industrial one. And that life expentency grew during that time period, not declined. And that the reason why we can experiment with our bullshit progressive programs is because of the achievements and growth of industry of what was the largest boom period of american history.


So spare me with your free market advocacy = trade protectionism and corporate bailouts. you have no clue.

[ElNono]

I don't know whether you are using blue text to show pride for Nazirgentina, or for being sarcastic, or both.

Looking at your posts, there's a lot of things you don't know.

lol laffer curve when taxes haven't been this low since the 50's
lol trickle down economics
lol the rich laughing at you and thanking you for your service
lol Austrian school of fantasy

[Ignignokt]

Wrong. American car companies have no innovation for years and have gotten clobbered by Japanese car companies in sales, but because Republicans are so concerned with keeping the rich "wealthy and stable", they get their losses subsidized and get bailed out when they're on the verge of bankruptcy.

You lose again here.

If Gm made a car that sold for 20 grand and toyota match a car at the same price, you would then notice that the Toyota car has 2000 dollars on avg more features than the GM for the simple fact that they don't adhere to the Labor regulations that apply to Detriot, and their manufacturing bases are in the south with govts that have low income tax rates.

Govt, is the reason why GM can't lower it's prices and match Toyota, and why they can't increase in overall quality.

Toyota plays by one rule, Gm by another.

[Ignignokt]

Looking at your posts, there's a lot of things you don't know.

lol laffer curve when taxes haven't been this low since the 50's
lol trickle down economics
lol the rich laughing at you and thanking you for your service
lol Austrian school of fantasy

That's funny how the austrian school of economics can't be blamed for our credit rating downgrade, our deficit spending, dollar devaluation, but your keynesian school can.

Sucks to be a Keynesian corporatist dick sucker.

LOL Argentina lecturing americans on how to run an economy.

[ElNono]

That's funny how the austrian school of economics can't be blamed for our credit rating downgrade, our deficit spending, dollar devaluation, but your keynesian school can.

Beats preaching for the Austrian economics fantasy world which is the end-all, be-all solution yet no single country has or will ever implement. You'll probably die a very bitter man.


LOL Argentina lecturing americans on how to run an economy.

LOL American lecturing anybody on how to run a WoW economy.

[Spursfan092120]

I think someone should link this thread to 90210 and make sure he sees it.

:rolleyes If he wants to pray, let him pray..why would I care? Soo...it's so wrong for religious people to look down on atheists, but it's cool for atheists to laugh at people who are religious? Nice hypocritical double standard. :tu

[Ignignokt]

El nono, also i already mentioned that the 50's was an era of high marginal tax rates in my earlier posts, i don't know how that discredits the laffer curve, you've must have been asleep during macro.

anyway, if i want to argue with a stupid latin american fuck i'll go talk to some asswipe at Home depot and argue soccer.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Wow, where do i begin. First of all, trade protectionism is apparent in both parties. The obama administration bailed out GM.
Bush began the process, Obama finished it.


Republicans are not necessarily free market principled either, and you're demonization of the rich is ridiculous.
I'm not demonizing the rich. I'm a lot richer than you will ever be.


In the nineteenth century we had the largest increase percentage wise of poor moving to the middle class, and middle class to rich. That was an era of smaller govt and regulation.
:lmao yeah, 11 year old kids working 15 hours a day and getting their hands chopped off was a great time in America!



(the meat packing industry actually lobbied for the regulation Sinclair was proposing so that the regional buisinesses in the midwest would edge out all other competitors nation wide).. and you're prolly gonna point out the migrant workers condition in the inner cities like chicago and new york. But what you will fail to notice is that the nineteenth century was a transition from the harsh life of the agriculutural economy to the industrial one. And that life expentency grew during that time period, not declined. And that the reason why we can experiment with our bullshit progressive programs is because of the achievements and growth of industry of what was the largest boom period of american history.
So what you're saying is the best ways for rapid growth are inhumane conditions where owners can exploit cheap labor and produce a bunch for a cheap price?

[Ignignokt]

Beats preaching for the Austrian economics fantasy world which is the end-all, be-all solution yet no single country has or will ever implement. You'll probably die a very bitter man.



LOL American lecturing anybody on how to run a WoW economy.

It's hard to understand your critique of austrian economics when Hayek has a noble peace prize, and Keynesian thinkers are bringing us to the edge of a long deep recession possible depression.

You have no room.

LOL Argentina would upgrade it's economy if it even followed the trash of american keynesian thought.

lol shit hole

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:rolleyes If he wants to pray, let him pray..why would I care? Soo...it's so wrong for religious people to look down on atheists, but it's cool for atheists to laugh at people who are religious? Nice hypocritical double standard. :tu
Athiets don't advocate passing laws that restrict the rights of religious people, while religious people want certain things passed that make certain parts of the bible law in this country.

If religious people want to laugh at me, they can go right ahead.

[ElNono]

El nono, also i already mentioned that the 50's was an era of high marginal tax rates in my earlier posts, i don't know how that discredits the laffer curve, you've must have been asleep during macro.

I don't think the laffer curve concept is erroneous at all, but I've heard idiots here (not necessarily you) that argue we're to the right of the peak, which is retarded seeing we had higher revenues with with higher taxes prior to the last few tax cuts and exceptions.


anyway, if i want to argue with a stupid latin american fuck i'll go talk to some asswipe at Home depot and argue soccer.

Or you could go to Austria and find out why nobody wants to use their economic tenets... crofl

[Ignignokt]

So what you're saying is the best ways for rapid growth are inhumane conditions where owners can exploit cheap labor and produce a bunch for a cheap price?


All cheap recycled jew banter aside...

The families who moved in from the country to the city had their children working the field. For a short while at that time society saw no problem for child labor since children already were being used for labor prior to the industrial age for farming and agriculture. But because of the RISE of living standards of all the participants of that era, the market allowed for people to put their kids in school, instead of putting them in the factory because it was a more worthwhile venture. People were already voluntarily prohibiting their children from working because of the rise of living standards before we had the progressive movement pass arbitrary child laws which aren't an objective measure of who can and can't labor.

You're to ignorant of history to understand that 19th Century Capitalism allowed for the change of thought concerning child labor because of rising living standards, and that that period was a transitionary period from the harsh realities of agricultural societies to a vastly improving industrial society. The birth rate was exponentially better during the industrial age and we as americans and europe as a whole witnessed the biggest population explosion in the world.

Meanwhile, now that the 19th century industrial achievements has allowed us to coast on them and pass stifling regulation, we are experiencing the latter... A DECLINE in the standards of living.


19th century Captilism Improved the Living standards of the Indurstrialized World.

20th century Progressivism is slowly declining them.


You're on the losing side.


And lol, less regulations would force children to labor under the gun.

[Ignignokt]

Or you could go to Austria and find out why nobody wants to use their economic tenets... crofl

LOL nope, those fools are using central planning and are part of the collapsing EU. crofl

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Child labor in agriculture doesn't justify child labor in industrialism.

And yeah, in the 19th century, when there stuff like indentured servitude and cheap labor, the world grew and modernized at a much more rapid rate.

I'm curious, why in the last 30 years when we've had tons of deregulations and have shifted more towards a free market, has America's economy crashed?

[ElNono]

It's hard to understand your critique of austrian economics when Hayek has a noble peace prize, and Keynesian thinkers are bringing us to the edge of a long deep recession possible depression.

You have no room.

I already stated my critique in the other thread. There's plenty Nobel laureates on the Keynes side too, I don't think that makes their economic theories any more convincing, tbh.

That said, why is it that nobody is picking up on this magical economic mantra that's been preached for decades and it's supposed to solve it all? I mean, no takers at all? Why do you think that is?

[ElNono]

LOL nope, those fools are using central planning and are part of the collapsing EU. crofl

Why aren't they listening to their homemade, solve it all gurus?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Hayek has a noble peace prize
so does Obama

[Spursfan092120]

Athiets don't advocate passing laws that restrict the rights of religious people, while religious people want certain things passed that make certain parts of the bible law in this country.

If religious people want to laugh at me, they can go right ahead.

Go tell that to the people who aren't allowed to pray in schools anymore...or the people who are made to feel uncomfortable praying in public when they feel the need to. Do I really need to post all the articles of atheists trying to take away religious people's rights? Like the ones who sued to try to stop Rick Perry from participating in a prayer rally? Or the student that sued his school and city for having a prayer banner in the school's auditorium? Or the atheists who sued to try to prevent a prayer cross at Ground Zero? Maybe they don't try to pass laws to restrict rights of religious people, but they'll sure fight and sue when bills are passed to give religious people those rights.

[ElNono]

Child labor in agriculture doesn't justify child labor in industrialism.

And yeah, in the 19th century, when there stuff like indentured servitude and cheap labor, the world grew and modernized at a much more rapid rate.

I'm curious, why in the last 30 years when we've had tons of deregulations and have shifted more towards a free market, has America's economy crashed?

People forget it also gets harder and harder to make major innovations. There's not going to be another Industrial revolution out there that's going to turn economies upside down anymore. That shit just ain't happening.

[Ignignokt]

so does Obama

nobel peace prize for economics>>> nobel peace prize for being bi racial.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Go tell that to the people who aren't allowed to pray in schools anymore...or the people who are made to feel uncomfortable praying in public when they feel the need to. Do I really need to post all the articles of atheists trying to take away religious people's rights? Like the ones who sued to try to stop Rick Perry from participating in a prayer rally? Or the student that sued his school and city for having a prayer banner in the school's auditorium? Or the atheists who sued to try to prevent a prayer cross at Ground Zero? Maybe they don't try to pass laws to restrict rights of religious people, but they'll sure fight and sue when bills are passed to give religious people those rights.
Separation of Church and State dumbfuck. If you want a country where the government makes laws catering to a certain religion, convert to Islam and move to the middle east.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

nobel peace prize for economics>>> nobel peace prize for being bi racial.
Didn't know you were the one who defined what people won the nobel peace prize for

[ElNono]

Go tell that to the people who aren't allowed to pray in schools anymore...or the people who are made to feel uncomfortable praying in public when they feel the need to. Do I really need to post all the articles of atheists trying to take away religious people's rights? Like the ones who sued to try to stop Rick Perry from participating in a prayer rally? Or the student that sued his school and city for having a prayer banner in the school's auditorium? Or the atheists who sued to try to prevent a prayer cross at Ground Zero? Maybe they don't try to pass laws to restrict rights of religious people, but they'll sure fight and sue when bills are passed to give religious people those rights.

You don't need any bills to grant any rights. Religious freedom (including the freedom to practice) is already a right on the Constitution. If somebody is passing bills (for or against religion) then I'll say there's some funny business there.

And BTW, everyone also has a right to have their day in court. There's nothing illegal about suing. Winning the case is a different story altogether.

[Spursfan092120]

Separation of Church and State dumbfuck. If you want a country where the government makes laws catering to a certain religion, convert to Islam and move to the middle east.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

It's saying they can't pick a religion, or prevent someone from worshipping how they want to. Says nothing about no prayer in school..nothing about no Christmas displays. No one's asking the government to cater to a religion...no one's being forced to pray in school. No one's being forced to do anything when it comes to religion. But they're not allowing the kids who want to pray to do so.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So you'd be OK with Muslims being allowed to pray in school?

[boutons_deux]

"Says nothing about no prayer in school.."

no school/teacher-led prayer in taxpayer-financed public schools.

"nothing about no Christmas displays."

no religious Christmas displays, or 10 Commandments, on taxpayer-financed govt property.

[ChumpDumper]

All cheap recycled jew banter aside...Pardon?

[boutons_deux]

"20th century Progressivism is slowly declining them."

Damn, you're a total, lying shill for conservatism. Do you attend ALEC conferences? :lol

It's pretty clear that America started going to shit in the mid-70s, when the VRWC got organized after the fall of Repug criminal Nixon and in response to the (1960s) progressive victories like Medicare, Medicaid, equal right amendment, Title IX, etc.

What progressive policies (as opposed to VRWC), in your dishonest opinion, since 1975 have run USA into a deep, long ditch?

[Koolaid_Man]

i just find it a funny coincidence that this country was founded on christian values and prospered from the start, as soon as we start turning into a liberal abortionist homosexual state shit hits the fan.


if murder, rape, torture, and slavery are "christian values" then where do I sign up...:lmao and then :downspin:

[Koolaid_Man]

So you'd be OK with Muslims being allowed to pray in school?


this is the first thread I can recall where you make any sense...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

if murder, rape, torture, and slavery are "christian values" then where do I sign up
:lol

[Spursfan092120]

So you'd be OK with Muslims being allowed to pray in school?

Yes..I would. I would have no problem with that whatsoever. They're not taking time out of the school day to make all the children do it. Anybody should be able to pray whenever and wherever they want.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

if that's the case then I agree as long as you're allowed to pray no matter what religion and it's not a school-sponsored activity

[DMC]

country's downfall economically coincides perfectly with the decline in christian morals and values in this country tbh, and the worse it gets the worse the economy gets imho. no denying that.
Great Depression

/point

[boutons_deux]

"Anybody should be able to pray whenever and wherever they want."

that's not what the "Christian" Taleban theocrats want.

They want their flavor of the Bible taught in public schools, including their Genesis fairy-tales-as-science, on the taxpayer dollar, and they want public praying to Christian God for all school children, led by the school staff.

[Leetonidas]

There is no God. :lol Ricky Perry talking to his imaginary friends :lol

[DMC]

Rick is working the room. If they were Muslims, he would be bowing to Mecca.

[boutons_deux]

This Christian (rural) idiots will vote for Ricky Bobby exclusively because he's "A good Christian man", no matter how badly his policies and regulations kick them in the head and pocketbook.

[Ginobilly]

The so called war on terror, decline of morals( liberal culture that values superficial values instead of work values), illegal immigration, our generous bloated welfare programs that many people take advantage of, spending money we don't have, etc. I could go and on, but this is what is turning the US into a 3rd world country.

I guess I just come from an old school catholic Mexican family that values family and being loyal to your wife and kids. There's very few families like that nowadays.

[ElNono]

The so called war on terror, decline of morals( liberal culture that values superficial values instead of work values), illegal immigration, our generous bloated welfare programs that many people take advantage of, spending money we don't have, etc. I could go and on, but this is what is turning the US into a 3rd world country.

I guess I just come from an old school catholic Mexican family that values family and being loyal to your wife and kids. There's very few families like that nowadays.

The 'old school catholic Mexican family values' that turned Mexico into the shithole it is today? No thanks.

[DarrinS]

The 'old school catholic Mexican family values' that turned Mexico into the shithole it is today? No thanks.

Seriously dude?

[ElNono]

Seriously dude?

Not sure what your question is. Whether Mexico is a shithole or that 'old school catholic Mexican family values' had anything to do with it?

[DarrinS]

Not sure what your question is. Whether Mexico is a shithole or that 'old school catholic Mexican family values' had anything to do with it?

The last part

[ChumpDumper]

The last partWhy wouldn't they have a lot to do with it?

If you buy the morals and family values argument for this country, why not for a shithole?

[ElNono]

The last part

About 70% of Latin Americans consider themselves catholics. The only thing their 'superior moral authority' have to show for it is 3rd world country after 3rd world country. Separation of church and state is one of the greatest things to ever happen to this country.

[Ginobilly]

The 'old school catholic Mexican family values' that turned Mexico into the shithole it is today? No thanks.

It's because they weren't real Catholics or Christians to begin with but rather they think they were/are. My parents have been married for over 36 years and they have never fought or hit any of us. They instilled good values in us and all of us are successful in our lives and careers.

[DarrinS]

Why wouldn't they have a lot to do with it?

If you buy the morals and family values argument for this country, why not for a shithole?

You and ElNono can't be taken seriously on this argument. Sorry.

[ElNono]

It's because they weren't real Catholics or Christians to begin with but rather they think they were/are.

I see. The good old 'they claim to be but are not'... that's convenient. But that's inherently the problem with these things. Everybody has their own set of rules, and everyone else that doesn't follow is not a 'true christian'.


My parents have been married for over 36 years and they have never fought or hit any of us. They instilled good values in us and all of us are successful in our lives and careers.

My parents have been married for over 40 years, and they instilled good values (including the freedom not to believe in god if we choose not to, even though they're devout catholics), and we've all done pretty good ourselves.

I believe in family values myself, but I don't believe in god and I don't think religion has anything to do with them. Loyalty, protection of your family, etc are commendable values that exist beyond catholicism (or any religion really).

The reality is that there's plenty of successful people that come from divorced families, and there's plenty of catholic fuckups too.

[ElNono]

You and ElNono can't be taken seriously on this argument. Sorry.

What's your take on this argument, besides reviewing poster's comments?

[DarrinS]

What's your take on this argument, besides reviewing poster's comments?

I think Mexico's problems are mostly due to narcotics and political corruption -- not from Catholocism.

[baseline bum]

Mexico was a shithole long before the Zetas.

[ElNono]

I think Mexico's problems are mostly due to narcotics and political corruption -- not from Catholocism.

Mexico was a 3rd world country way before narcotics was big business there.
The 1940-1980 "Mexican Miracle" was overshadowed by social inequality and authoritarian and oppressive ruling.

The point is, catholic moral values never did shit for Mexico, not for the better and not for the worse. It's actually quite telling that a lot of Mexicans migrate to a country like the US which never had the majority of catholics (to the percentage it is amongst Mexicans), but they obviously regarded as a superior country.

In a nutshell, if catholic moral values had such an influence over a country doing good or bad, then Mexico would've been a 1st world country a lot sooner than the US.

So, in part, I agree with your statement.

[DarrinS]

Mexico was a shithole long before the Zetas.

3 retards and counting. Anyone else?

[baseline bum]

3 retards and counting. Anyone else?

Your ignorant ass can count? Did you find a youtube that explained the concept to you?

[Marcus Bryant]

Somewhat extant semi-nuclear families do provide individuals with some level of support, not just economic, but psychological as well. The atomization of the individual in Western culture, seen as a good thing by many, has led to man being alienated from himself and his nature. Whereas before religion and family provided bulwarks against man facing life alone against a society dominated by the state and corporation, man in his wisdom has eliminated those as legitimate sources of allegiance. Fully perfect rational economic man has managed to eliminate his humanity.

[ElNono]

Your ignorant ass can count? Did you find a youtube that explained the concept to you?

He can always ask god to come down and count for him, kinda like Goodhair

[baseline bum]

He can always ask god to come down and count for him, kinda like Goodhair

Jesus ain't down: algebra came from Islam.

[DarrinS]

Atheists weren't the people who helped abolish slavery. What group did? And for what reasons?

[ElNono]

Atheists weren't the people who helped abolish slavery. What group did? And for what reasons?

Politicians? In order to turn the American Civil war into a racial war?

Christians didn't own slaves and thought it was right?

[ploto]

I did not really care one way or another about this event because I knew that it was not really a religious event but actually just another use of Christian believers by the political right- specifically by Perry to set the stage for a possible Presidential run.

[ElNono]

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

[ElNono]

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

[ElNono]

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

[ElNono]

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

[ElNono]

God must've been really mad when slavery ended... all those wasted instructions...

[boutons_deux]

There's lots OT crazy stuff that Bible-thumping literalists just ignore. :lol

[Trainwreck2100]

Politicians? In order to turn the American Civil war into a racial war?

Christians didn't own slaves and thought it was right?

:lol some argentine guy trying to spout that American history

[Trainwreck2100]

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
:lmao





:lol






:lol

using a bible from 1996 yeah that version was really used to keep the slaves under foot. Now we just need to find their time machine they used to get it.

[ElNono]

:lol some argentine guy trying to spout that American history

Part of becoming a citizen in this country is learning it's history. Lincoln et all. Do you have a different version of events you want to share with us?


:lmao
:lol
:lol

using a bible from 1996 yeah that version was really used to keep the slaves under foot. Now we just need to find their time machine they used to get it.

What does your version of the Bible says about treating slaves? :lmao

lol @ pretending christians weren't slave owners...

[Spursfan092120]

The reality is that there's plenty of successful people that come from divorced families, and there's plenty of catholic fuckups too.

Agreed...but you're missing the point here...this thread isn't about making fun of atheists...this thread was started by people making fun of Christians. And yet it's the atheists complaining in this thread. The atheists are laughing at the Christians, and suing the Christians for wanting to talk about their God, but if Christians say one word about the atheists in a negative tone, they're up in arms.

[ElNono]

Agreed...but you're missing the point here...this thread isn't about making fun of atheists...this thread was started by people making fun of Christians. And yet it's the atheists saying "haha..he's praying.." "he's praying...we should sue him." but yet if Christians say one negative word about atheists they're all up in arms.

I have no problem with whatever whoever wants to believe. Stated as much.

But if you think for a second Darrin isn't trying to wedge the 'atheists is what's really wrong with this country', you would be wrong. :lol

[ElNono]

Oh, and I can't wait for Cobra Commander "I only follow the ancient scriptures" meme. :lmao

[Trainwreck2100]

Part of becoming a citizen in this country is learning it's history. Lincoln et all. Do you have a different version of events you want to share with us?

yes and unfortunately passing a test doesn't make you an expert on the abolitionist movement. For example did you know the last slaves to be freed were the ones in the union states cause they weren't covered by the emancipation proclimation? Lol having to pass a test to be a citizen


What does your version of the Bible says about treating slaves? :lmao

lol @ pretending christians weren't slave owners...

Who is pretending christians weren't slave owners?

[ElNono]

yes and unfortunately passing a test doesn't make you an expert on the abolitionist movement. For example did you know the last slaves to be freed were the ones in the union states cause they weren't covered by the emancipation proclimation? Lol having to pass a test to be a citizen

Yes I was aware, which is exactly why I pointed out the emancipation proclamation was more a political act than anything else.
It wasn't until the 13th amendment that slavery was completely abolished.

My interest for parts of American history goes beyond the citizen's test. But I do have to say that the test has forced me to expand even more.

I have no problem taking the test, tbh. I'm a curious cat, so I welcome learning more about the country I call home these days.


look up verse uses "servants" not "slaves," what now? Who is pretending christians weren't slave owners

Darrin is trying to tell us how compassionate christians were solely responsible for ending slavery. I'm sorry, I should've pointed out that comment wasn't aimed at you.

[boutons_deux]

A Prayer For Ricky Meany

According to researchers in the Texas Legislative Study Group, 17.3 percent of the state's population lives in poverty, 4.26 million people. 66 percent of Latino children and 59 percent of black children live in low-income families, compared to 25 percent of white children. 28 percent or 6.1 million of the population of Texas is uninsured, the largest share of uninsured in the nation. And if you are a woman with a child and in financial straits, don't come knocking on Uncle Tex's door for a handout. In 2010, the average monthly benefit for Women, Infant, and Children (WIC) recipients in Texas was $26.86, the lowest in the country. Yes, that's for a month. You want more, you better pray. But so far that hasn't worked in Texas.

Perry didn't pray about any of that or the fact that Texas is 50th in workers' compensation, 50th in percent of women receiving prenatal care, 50th in percent of non-elderly women with health care, 50th in per capita spending on mental health, 49th in per capita state spending on Medicaid. Texas was sad before he became governor but Rick Perry has turned the state into a tragedy.

Maybe that's because we aren't all doing our share to help our neighbors or perhaps we aren't praying enough to be heard. Perry, of course, wants to privatize much of government and believes that faith-based groups, individuals, and non-profits can help reduce the burden on government. This is what you'd expect of a conservative man of faith, and that he would do his personal part to help the less fortunate (since the government he is running clearly does not give a damn about "the least of these"). The evidence in Rick Perry's tax returns, however, indicates he may have missed some Sunday school classes on giving.

In 2007, the governor of Texas earned $1,092,810. According to his IRS form, he gave $90 of that total to his church. He was a tad more generous in 2008 when the governor's adjusted gross income was $277,667 and he donated $2,850 to his church. Perry was feeling less magnanimous in 2009 when he earned $200,370 but shows all zeroes as a line item for church donations. For the years 2000-2009, Governor Perry's adjusted gross income on his tax returns adds up to $2,694,253 and church donations are $14,293. He did, however, manage to itemize each article of clothing and household items he donated to Goodwill, which amounted to a deduction of $30,768 during those same nine years.

Perry isn't exactly troubled by daily expenses, either. He lives in a $10,000 per month mansion, which the state is leasing for him since fire destroyed the historic residence of the governor. No fretting about making mortgage payments, and health care is provided, along with all transportation costs, and he does not pay for utilities, food, or property taxes. Maybe he could have edged up those church donations a bit without much personal suffering.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-moore/a-prayer-for-ricky-meany_b_920349.html?view=print&comm_ref=false

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

God must've been really mad when slavery ended... all those wasted instructions...
:lmao

[boutons_deux]

The Biggest Religious Movement You Never Heard of: Nine Things You Need to Know About Rick Perry's Prayer Event

“Perry’s endorsers are not just a random group of radical evangelists making outrageous statements,” researcher Rachel Tabachnick subsequently wrote at Alternet.org. “These are the apostles and prophets of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), the biggest international religious movement you never heard of.” Almost simultaneously, investigative reporter Forrest Wilder of the Texas Observer published an extensive article on Perry's prayer event and his endorsers, “Rick Perry's Army of God.”

The NAR's intellectual godfather, C. Peter Wagner, one of Perry's early endorsers, brags that it's the most significant change in how Christianity is practiced since the Protestant Reformation. Like him or not, in a sense he's right: With tens, even hundreds of millions of followers worldwide, the NAR's stress on Godlike prophetic and apostolic powers, its revisions of end-time prophecies, its methodology of “spiritual warfare,” and its agenda of theocratic dominion over all aspects of society are not just threatening to modern secular democracy and the religious pluralism it protects, they have been sharply criticized by other conservative Christians as unbiblical, deviant teachings, even a form of the very demonic practices they obsessively declare war against

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/151911

[Wild Cobra]

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
FYI...

Slave isn't the correct term for the word used. The person is "bonded" to the other, but wasn't a slave as we think of one through our history.

[ElNono]

FYI...

Slave isn't the correct term for the word used. The person is "bonded" to the other, but wasn't a slave as we think of one through our history.

Don't argue semantics with me. Did the girl had to please the man that bought her?

[Wild Cobra]

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
Wow...

The NAB is really wrong here. It's not if the servant takes longer to die that it's OK, it's that the servant can be hit for consecutive days.

[Wild Cobra]

There's lots OT crazy stuff that Bible-thumping literalists just ignore. :lol
The problem is that all the English translations are written to favor the ruling powers. Need to strive to understand the original language.

[Wild Cobra]

God must've been really mad when slavery ended... all those wasted instructions...
One of the biblical teachings is to obey the laws of man. Such practices have been around before Judeo-Christian values have spread. It would be obvious to say the Jehova never tried to micromanage man's existence, in fact, made man ruler of earth and others.

Living in bondage was a common practice of ancient times. Men were the laborers and women were the life bringers. For someone of no assets and no ability to provide for one self, they became "bonded" to other and served them. Women were treated in a similar fashion, needed the labor of men to survive. Granted, it's a way of life that we would never think right, but these were different times, and no government handouts.

[ElNono]

Still arguing semantics? :sleep

[Wild Cobra]

Still arguing semantics? :sleep
Call it what you will.

Tell me, what were the options of the day?

[ElNono]

Tell me, what were the options of the day?

As far as the topic we're discussing is concerned, the options were owning slaves and not owning slaves.

[Wild Cobra]

As far as the topic we're discussing is concerned, the options were owning slaves and not owning slaves.
What about those who couldn't provide for themselves? The point is, this was the social system of the time. There wasn't a nanny state. If you couldn't provide for yourself, you were en indentured servant.

Again, what were the options for those who could not provide for themselves?

[redzero]

So God approved of indentured servitude at one point in time? That's messed up. It's even worse that he believes that indentured servants can be beaten to near death with no repercussions for their owner.

[ElNono]

What about those who couldn't provide for themselves? The point is, this was the social system of the time.

So you think Biblical teachings only apply for the time they were given?
Under that viewpoint, the Bible is in effect obsolete. You really can't have it both ways.

[ChumpDumper]

You and ElNono can't be taken seriously on this argument. Sorry.Please explain.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

FYI...

Slave isn't the correct term for the word used. The person is "bonded" to the other, but wasn't a slave as we think of one through our history.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bondage

Listed synonym for "bonded" or "bondage":
slavery
enslavement
servility
servitude

Listed antonyms:
freedom
liberty


:lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

What about those who couldn't provide for themselves? The point is, this was the social system of the time. There wasn't a nanny state. If you couldn't provide for yourself, you were en indentured servant.

Again, what were the options for those who could not provide for themselves?
If the bible was written for a different social system and a different time period, why do Republicans think it holds so much weight in how laws should be made for this time period and this social system?

[redzero]

If someone can't provide for themselves now, is it okay for them to become indentured servants?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I might have to enslave the next homeless person I see. It's only right if he can't provide for himself.

[ChumpDumper]

If someone can't provide for themselves now, is it okay for them to become indentured servants?


I might have to enslave the next homeless person I see. It's only right if he can't provide for himself.Stupid idiots. You can bond them to you. That's totally different.

[Wild Cobra]

So you think Biblical teachings only apply for the time they were given?
Under that viewpoint, the Bible is in effect obsolete. You really can't have it both ways.
I don't think any reasonable person disputes the idea that the laws of the time were for those time. The 10 commandments however are for all times.

[Wild Cobra]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bondage

Listed synonym for "bonded" or "bondage":
slavery
enslavement
servility
servitude

Listed antonyms:
freedom
liberty


:lmao
Please note they are synonym (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/synonym)s. Not an exact match.

I'll ask you the same thing. What other option would there be?

[redzero]

I don't think any reasonable person disputes the idea that the laws of the time were for those time.

Why? Did God all of a sudden change his opinion on those thing?

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think any reasonable person disputes the idea that the laws of the time were for those time. The 10 commandments however are for all times.So the Bible is the absolute word of God, except when it isn't.

[ElNono]

I don't think any reasonable person disputes the idea that the laws of the time were for those time.

We're talking about the bible, not about the laws of the time.

[Wild Cobra]

We're talking about the bible, not about the laws of the time.
Hmmm...

I never knew a practicing Christian that took the "Laws of Moses" to heart. Only the 10 commandment.

Do you?

[ElNono]

Hmmm...

I never knew a practicing Christian that took the "Laws of Moses" to heart. Only the 10 commandment.

Do you?

I know a christian that expects god to fix the economy for him if he prays real hard. That's not really part of the 10 commandments either.

[Wild Cobra]

Why? Did God all of a sudden change his opinion on those thing?
I already explained that Jehovah did not micromanage the affairs of man.

Now keep in mind, I am a Theist, but not a Monotheist.

[ChumpDumper]

I already explained that Jehovah did not micromanage the affairs of man.There was a time he would do stuff like send bears to kill kids who made fun of a dude's bald head.

Why did he stop doing that?

[Slomo]

So the Bible is the absolute word of God, except when it isn't.

Hey don't knock it. The Vatican has been built on that exact premise.

[Wild Cobra]

Hey don't knock it. The Vatican has been built on that exact premise.
If you ask for my opinion, I say the Vatican is another example of the stated Antichrist. If not that, at least "False Prophet."

[redzero]

I already explained that Jehovah did not micromanage the affairs of man.

What? What does that have to do with what's in the Bible? God was okay with beating slaves at one point. Did he change his mind since then?

[Wild Cobra]

What? What does that have to do with what's in the Bible? God was okay with beating slaves at one point. Did he change his mind since then?
The accepted laws and the spiritual rewards were two different things now, were they not?

[Wild Cobra]

I know a christian that expects god to fix the economy for him if he prays real hard. That's not really part of the 10 commandments either.
I agree. He's a fool.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Please note they are synonym (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/synonym)s. Not an exact match.
So as long as I call it bondage and not slavery I can have slaves oops I mean people bonded to me?

[redzero]

The accepted laws and the spiritual rewards were two different things now, were they not?

Answer my question, please.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I don't think any reasonable person disputes the idea that the laws of the time were for those time.
How do you know that a ban on gay marriage wasn't just a law for those times?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The person is "bonded" to the other, but wasn't a slave.


Please note they are synonym (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/synonym)s. Not an exact match.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bondage?show=0&t=1312833354

Example of the word bondage used:

<the Civil War ended over 200 years of bondage for black Africans in America>

So, what you're saying is, the Africans in America were "bonded" to their owner, but they weren't slaves?

[ElNono]

lol thinking that semantics is what's wrong... :lmao

[Wild Cobra]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bondage?show=0&t=1312833354

Example of the word bondage used:

<the Civil War ended over 200 years of bondage for black Africans in America>

So, what you're saying is, the Africans in America were "bonded" to their owner, but they weren't slaves?
Were there any laws to try these so called slaves of the times of Exodus, if they ran away from their masters?

Tell me, what was the law in that regard?

[Drachen]

If you ask for my opinion, I say the Vatican is another example of the stated Antichrist. If not that, at least "False Prophet."

Why?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Were there any laws to try these so called slaves of the times of Exodus, if they ran away from their masters?

Tell me, what was the law in that regard?
Were the Africans picking cotton in the South slaves, or were they just "bonded" to someone else? Answer the question.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Idk the specific answer to your question, but the bible clearly stipulates you're allowed to beat your slaves as long as they don't die, so if the slave were to run away, acceptable punishment according to god would be beating him to the point where he almost dies.

[Wild Cobra]

Were the Africans picking cotton in the South slaves, or were they just "bonded" to someone else? Answer the question.
Slavery and Bonded servitude is not 100% the same, and the point I made that you obviously missed.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Slavery and Bonded servitude is not 100% the same
So bonded servitude is acceptable but slavery isn't?

I can't wait to pick up a homeless man as my bonded servant

[Wild Cobra]

So bonded servitude is acceptable but slavery isn't?

I can't wait to pick up a homeless man as my bonded servant
Is that you Chump?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Is that you Chump?
Sorry more than one person thinks your arguments are retarded

[ElNono]

Indentured servitude and Slavery are not the same, even though the former evolved quite naturally into slavery. Bondage and Slavery are pretty much the same.

[Wild Cobra]

Indentured servitude and Slavery are not the same, even though the former evolved quite naturally into slavery. Bondage and Slavery are pretty much the same.
During the times of Exodus, Bonded Servitude was simply normal. I'm not saying it was right by any standards of morality we know. Just that it was.

Again, I ask. What other option did these so-called slaves have, for any meaningful life?

[ChumpDumper]

You think the Bible was only referring to indentured servants?

Really, WTF are you trying to say here?

[ChumpDumper]

lol so-called

[redzero]

God was okay with beating slaves at one point. Did he change his mind since then?

Still waiting for an answer to this.

[Ignignokt]

The Israelites were a slave race for a majority of their existance prior ad 70. As Nietzsche pointed out, the israelis survived the gauntlet of persecution and slavery because they developed an altruist morality in which traits like "ambition" "pride" "beauty" 'blood lust" were seen as amoral and substituted those values which the egyptians, babylonians, every warrior nation in the world at those times held dear, with the anti values. The antithesis of those values were "selflesness" "humility" meak n poor" "peace loving" etc.

These values that were a refutation of the master values helped the jew survive. If you had ambition, greed, beauty, nobility, blood lust, and pride you were more likely to revolt against your master and you and your progeny would die.

This morality was different once the jude secured their own land. They fused the Master-slave morality and were a fierce people ruled by priests, or philosopher kings.

Slavery at that time was necessary amongst all peoples in that era because they saw it better to enslave a whole nation instead of commiting genocide at times. It was a tool to ensure that your enemy could not rise against you and obliterate you.

It worked at times and failed in others. But that form of slavery was done out of fear.

What the Arabs and later the Christians did with africa carried more immorality for the africans were no threat, and they sought to have cheap labor.

Not defending either side.

Just that you all are fighting for nothing.

[ElNono]

During the times of Exodus, Bonded Servitude was simply normal. I'm not saying it was right by any standards of morality we know. Just that it was.

Who cares what was 'normal' back then? You're just beating around the bush with this stuff. We all know a lot of certain things were wrong back then. The question is why if god has so much wisdom, he couldn't foresee back then that the instructions passed in his name were simply wrong?


Again, I ask. What other option did these so-called slaves have, for any meaningful life?

Define meaningful when it comes to a slave?

[Wild Cobra]

Who cares what was 'normal' back then? You're just beating around the bush with this stuff. We all know a lot of certain things were wrong back then. The question is why if god has so much wisdom, he couldn't foresee back then that the instructions passed in his name were simply wrong?



Define meaningful when it comes to a slave?
My God...

You cannot answer that simple question, which is a must, if Jehova were to say slavery must end.

What would the slaves do? What life would be better for them?

This is now the 4th or 5th time I am asking.

[redzero]

God couldn't find an alternative to slavery? He pretty much sucks at his job, then.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

During the times of Exodus, Bonded Servitude was simply normal. I'm not saying it was right by any standards of morality we know. Just that it was.

Again, I ask. What other option did these so-called slaves have, for any meaningful life?
I thought the bible was supposed to outline the standards or morality humans should live by?

[ElNono]

What would the slaves do? What life would be better for them?

They would be free to do with their lives as they please? Isn't it obvious?
Indentured servitude was (supposed to be) a time-limited contract. 5-7 years normally.

Not sure what that has to do with god sponsoring beating up slaves, but okay.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

God couldn't find an alternative to slavery? He pretty much sucks at his job, then.
At least he ensures the slaves survive for a "day or two", that was pretty cool of him.

When doctors can come up with an abortion procedure where the fetus survives for a day or two, it'll be a morally acceptable procedure :tu

[ElNono]

When doctors can come up with an abortion procedure where the fetus survives for a day or two, it'll be a morally acceptable procedure :tu

Plus abortion is 'pretty normal' nowadays, so that's basically cool. :lol

[Agloco]

EFTUkRc4JSE

[DarrinS]

EFTUkRc4JSE

He looks like he could use a bath. I wonder if FDR would be mocked for his religious beliefs. He frequently prayed in his radio addresses. Oh well, a bygone era.

[Agloco]

He looks like he could use a bath.

It's quotes like this that caused him to wait for so long before revealing his identity. Regardless of his personal hygiene, he's spot on.


I wonder if FDR would be mocked for his religious beliefs. He frequently prayed in his radio addresses. Oh well, a bygone era.

Did FDR also call for an hour per week of prayer to deliver us from the grips of the depression?

[DarrinS]

"And so, in this poignant hour, I ask you to join with me in prayer: Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our Nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity. Lead them straight and true; give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith. They will need Thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard. For the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again; and we know that by Thy grace, and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph. They will be sore tried, by night and day without rest—until the victory is won…


"And let our hearts be stout, to wait out the long travail, to bear sorrows that may come, to impart our courage unto our sons wheresoever they may be.

"And, O Lord, give us Faith. Give us Faith in Thee; Faith in our sons; Faith in each other; Faith in our united crusade. Let not the keenness of our spirit ever be dulled. Let not the impacts of temporary events, of temporal matters of but fleeting moment—let not these deter us in our unconquerable purpose. With Thy blessing we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy… Thy will be done, Almighty God."

[Winehole23]

"And so, in this poignant hour, I ask you to join with me in prayer: Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our Nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity. Lead them straight and true; give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith. They will need Thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard. For the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again; and we know that by Thy grace, and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph. They will be sore tried, by night and day without rest—until the victory is won…
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=307493

[Winehole23]

"And let our hearts be stout, to wait out the long travail, to bear sorrows that may come, to impart our courage unto our sons wheresoever they may be.http://forbes.house.gov/PrayerCaucus/Blog/?postid=244809

[Winehole23]

"And, O Lord, give us Faith. Give us Faith in Thee; Faith in our sons; Faith in each other; Faith in our united crusade. Let not the keenness of our spirit ever be dulled. Let not the impacts of temporary events, of temporal matters of but fleeting moment—let not these deter us in our unconquerable purpose. With Thy blessing we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy… Thy will be done, Almighty God."http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2730779/replies?c=1

[ElNono]

"We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out. "

"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ...we need believing people. "

[Winehole23]

We got some FDR thumpers too.

[Agloco]

Did FDR also call for an hour per week of prayer to deliver us from the grips of the depression?


"And so, in this poignant hour, I ask you to join with me in prayer: Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our Nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity. Lead them straight and true; give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith. They will need Thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard. For the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again; and we know that by Thy grace, and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph. They will be sore tried, by night and day without rest—until the victory is won…


"And let our hearts be stout, to wait out the long travail, to bear sorrows that may come, to impart our courage unto our sons wheresoever they may be.

"And, O Lord, give us Faith. Give us Faith in Thee; Faith in our sons; Faith in each other; Faith in our united crusade. Let not the keenness of our spirit ever be dulled. Let not the impacts of temporary events, of temporal matters of but fleeting moment—let not these deter us in our unconquerable purpose. With Thy blessing we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy… Thy will be done, Almighty God."

No would have sufficed.

[Blake]

Hmmm...

I never knew a practicing Christian that took the "Laws of Moses" to heart. Only the 10 commandment.

Do you?

I don't know any practicing Christian that takes all the laws from Moses to heart either.

They all seem to pick and choose the ones that fit their belief systems.

[Blake]

My God...

You cannot answer that simple question, which is a must, if Jehova were to say slavery must end.

What would the slaves do? What life would be better for them?

This is now the 4th or 5th time I am asking.

they would be free. Wouldn't that be enough?

if not, then wandering through a wilderness for 40 years living on God's welfare system should be more than enough.

[Blake]

The Israelites were a slave race for a majority of their existance prior ad 70. As Nietzsche pointed out, the israelis survived the gauntlet of persecution and slavery because they developed an altruist morality in which traits like "ambition" "pride" "beauty" 'blood lust" were seen as amoral and substituted those values which the egyptians, babylonians, every warrior nation in the world at those times held dear, with the anti values. The antithesis of those values were "selflesness" "humility" meak n poor" "peace loving" etc.

These values that were a refutation of the master values helped the jew survive. If you had ambition, greed, beauty, nobility, blood lust, and pride you were more likely to revolt against your master and you and your progeny would die.

This morality was different once the jude secured their own land. They fused the Master-slave morality and were a fierce people ruled by priests, or philosopher kings.

Slavery at that time was necessary amongst all peoples in that era because they saw it better to enslave a whole nation instead of commiting genocide at times. It was a tool to ensure that your enemy could not rise against you and obliterate you.

It worked at times and failed in others. But that form of slavery was done out of fear.

What the Arabs and later the Christians did with africa carried more immorality for the africans were no threat, and they sought to have cheap labor.

Not defending either side.

Just that you all are fighting for nothing.

point being that God gave the green light to slavery. :tu

[Capt Bringdown]

Here's an interesting take from a blogger at lefty Firedoglake:


Liberal smirking and responses to Rick Perry’s Prayer Meeting (http://my.firedoglake.com/iflizwerequeen/2011/08/08/liberal-smirking-and-responses-to-rick-perrys-prayer-meeting/)

The truth, like it or not, and the facts are that Rick Perry Prayed a very smooth and sophisticated prayer. The fact is that he looked as “presidential” as Obama ever did during 2008. Those who didn’t attend should read the transcript of Perry’s prayer. I was there and heard it myself. There was nothing in his prayer that would have offended anyone. In fact, Perry even said “let us pray for the president and his family.” He did not pound anyone. Perry was even slicker than Reagan who, like many liberals, sometimes tended to sarcasm–a dishonest way to communicate with others.

I read in HuffPost today and on NPR that they are making fun of Perry because he made C’s and D’s–again while this may be entertaining for intellectual liberals, the fact is that many, if not the majority, of Americans are fed up with Ivy league college graduates. They are likely to say: WE’ve had ivy league graduates in the White House for the past 20 years and look at the mess they have ALL made of things. I think we all realize that intelligence is about a lot more than getting good grades in school. Writers from HuffPost and NPR should know better than to point out report cards as an indicator of intelligence.


Perhaps some would be surprised to know that many on the Left regard Liberals with as much disdain as the right does?

[boutons_deux]

Anti-Government Spending Crusader Rick Perry Accepted More Than $80,000 In Farm Subsidies

ogger on Aug 8, 2011 at 7:35 pm

Falling into line with the Tea Party rhetoric against “out-of-control” government spending, Gov. Rick Perry (R-TX) is now supporting a move away from direct subsidies to the agriculture industry in favor of an incentives-driven model. But Perry himself has benefited from over $80,000 in farm subsidies over the years and publicly declared his support for farm subsidies when running for Texas Agriculture Commissioner in 1990. After his opponent accused him of wanting to terminate price supports for farmers, Perry was quick to deny the claim:

“[Former Commissioner Jim Hightower] says I support eliminating our farm program payments. That’s not true. I’ve participated in the program as a producer. My neighbors participate. I know what would happen to rural areas of Texas if these programs were discontinued. I do not support such an action.”

Perry certainly has benefited from the nation’s proclivity toward farm payouts; his 40-acre farm — which he finally sold in 1998 — brought him $72,687 in farm payments between 1987 and 1989 and even made him an additional $9,624 for leaving his land lying fallow. Perry’s father has also received $6,443 from cotton and wheat subsidies in 2002 and 2003.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/08/08/290830/perry-farm-subsidies/

[Blake]

Here's an interesting take from a blogger at lefty Firedoglake:


I read in HuffPost today and on NPR that they are making fun of Perry because he made C’s and D’s–again while this may be entertaining for intellectual liberals, the fact is that many, if not the majority, of Americans are fed up with Ivy league college graduates. They are likely to say: WE’ve had ivy league graduates in the White House for the past 20 years and look at the mess they have ALL made of things.


terrible take, tbh

[RandomGuy]

You're to ignorant of history to understand that 19th Century Capitalism allowed for the change of thought concerning child labor because of rising living standards, and that that period was a transitionary period from the harsh realities of agricultural societies to a vastly improving industrial society. The birth rate was exponentially better during the industrial age and we as americans and europe as a whole witnessed the biggest population explosion in the world.

Meanwhile, now that the 19th century industrial achievements has allowed us to coast on them and pass stifling regulation, we are experiencing the latter... A DECLINE in the standards of living.


19th century Captilism Improved the Living standards of the Indurstrialized World.

20th century Progressivism is slowly declining them.


You're on the losing side.


And lol, less regulations would force children to labor under the gun.

Birth rates didn't change at the beginning of the industrial era to be "exponentially" better.

The only thing that really changed was that doctors started washing their hands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis) and and capitalism had jack shit to do with that. That you can't tell the difference between birth rates and survival rates says volumes about your ability to take information and use it meaningfully.

Industrialisation actually drove *down* birth rates at a fairly rapid pace especially after effective birth control was introduced.

The rest of this is little more than post hoc propter hoc.

I find it more than a little bit funny that you mention birth rates, because it is precisely this trend that is causing no small part of the economic stagnation that you mistakenly have attributed to "progressivism".

Economics you might have some idea about, but your lack of knowledge in other areas means that you seem to be unable to put that knowledge into perspective.

The last thing about this, is that the most soicalistic countries, we have come to discover, are the only ones that have managed to keep their native birth rates up, as the free day care allows women to keep jobs, and that encourages them to have more kids.
http://homepage3.nifty.com/sociology/motion.html

Countries like Japan where they actively discourage paid day care, is a good example of what happens when you don't do things like that.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2011/08/japans-sexist-labour-market

Suck on that progressive policy.

[RandomGuy]

That's funny how the austrian school of economics can't be blamed for our credit rating downgrade, our deficit spending, dollar devaluation, but your keynesian school can.

Sucks to be a Keynesian corporatist dick sucker.

LOL Argentina lecturing americans on how to run an economy.

That might be true, if actual Keynsian economic polices were really followed.

What has actually happened is a strange half-ass mismash.

Sorry.

[RandomGuy]

Since we are re-visting it:

d0nERTFo-Sk

[RandomGuy]

The Israelites were a slave race for a majority of their existance prior ad 70. As Nietzsche pointed out, the israelis survived the gauntlet of persecution and slavery because they developed an altruist morality in which traits like "ambition" "pride" "beauty" 'blood lust" were seen as amoral and substituted those values which the egyptians, babylonians, every warrior nation in the world at those times held dear, with the anti values. The antithesis of those values were "selflesness" "humility" meak n poor" "peace loving" etc.

These values that were a refutation of the master values helped the jew survive. If you had ambition, greed, beauty, nobility, blood lust, and pride you were more likely to revolt against your master and you and your progeny would die.

This morality was different once the jude secured their own land. They fused the Master-slave morality and were a fierce people ruled by priests, or philosopher kings.

Slavery at that time was necessary amongst all peoples in that era because they saw it better to enslave a whole nation instead of commiting genocide at times. It was a tool to ensure that your enemy could not rise against you and obliterate you.

It worked at times and failed in others. But that form of slavery was done out of fear.

What the Arabs and later the Christians did with africa carried more immorality for the africans were no threat, and they sought to have cheap labor.

Not defending either side.

Just that you all are fighting for nothing.

Ah shit, I see we are also pulling the Nietzsche card. :lol

This keeps getting better.

[DarrinS]

That might be true, if actual Keynsian economic polices were really followed.

What has actually happened is a strange half-ass mismash.

Sorry.


Is there any country actually practicing Keynesian economic policies?

(will await RG to post the healthiest example of a country that uses anything resembling Kenesian economics)

[RandomGuy]

Is there any country actually practicing Keynesian economic policies?

(will await RG to post the healthiest example of a country that uses anything resembling Kenesian economics)

Not really, although states that set up "rainy day" funds come closest.

Personally, I think the Keynsian/Austrian thing is a bit limiting. To think that any ONE theory is THE theory to describe something as complex and dynamic, when reality could very well be a combination of both, or hell, neither, is foolish, IMO.

I think that modern understanding of just how irrational people can be really does work against Austrian school.

Freakonomics anyone?

[Ignignokt]

Birth rates didn't change at the beginning of the industrial era to be "exponentially" better.

The only thing that really changed was that doctors started washing their hands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis) and and capitalism had jack shit to do with that. That you can't tell the difference between birth rates and survival rates says volumes about your ability to take information and use it meaningfully.

Industrialisation actually drove *down* birth rates at a fairly rapid pace especially after effective birth control was introduced.

The rest of this is little more than post hoc propter hoc.

I find it more than a little bit funny that you mention birth rates, because it is precisely this trend that is causing no small part of the economic stagnation that you mistakenly have attributed to "progressivism".

Economics you might have some idea about, but your lack of knowledge in other areas means that you seem to be unable to put that knowledge into perspective.

The last thing about this, is that the most soicalistic countries, we have come to discover, are the only ones that have managed to keep their native birth rates up, as the free day care allows women to keep jobs, and that encourages them to have more kids.
http://homepage3.nifty.com/sociology/motion.html

Countries like Japan where they actively discourage paid day care, is a good example of what happens when you don't do things like that.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2011/08/japans-sexist-labour-market

Suck on that progressive policy.


Wow, i meant to say infant mortality rates. And yeah, capitalism had everything to do with that. The fact that you had more children being delivered by doctors was a product of capitalism. I don't see how you could miss that.

Maybe you were thinking that the monopoly man was personally delivering the babies as an example of capitalism affecting the infant mortality rates.

[Ignignokt]

Not really, although states that set up "rainy day" funds come closest.

Personally, I think the Keynsian/Austrian thing is a bit limiting. To think that any ONE theory is THE theory to describe something as complex and dynamic, when reality could very well be a combination of both, or hell, neither, is foolish, IMO.

I think that modern understanding of just how irrational people can be really does work against Austrian school.

Freakonomics anyone?

This is so ignorant, i don't even know where to begin.

WE just passed a huge stimulus during a recession, if that's not keynesianism, then i don't know what is.

[ElNono]

WE just passed a huge stimulus during a recession, if that's not keynesianism, then i don't know what is.

'huge' is debatable, when looking at spending over GDP on a historical basis (was 100+% of GDP back in WWII).

But it certainly is keynesian. No doubt about it.

What's also keynesian is to tone down the direct government intervention and pay down the debt accrued once the good times roll around. That hardly, if ever, happens.

Instead, when 'good times' come around, we go away from keynesianism and go into monetarism. Where we play with the money supply levers until we are back into a recession, interest rates go near or at zero, and monetarism has no more levers to play with.

[boutons_deux]

"WE just passed a huge stimulus during a recession"

goddammit, you're dumb.

Compared to the depth/size of the BGD, it wasn't enough, and it wasn't even all spent.

The stimulus should have been about $2T. Lots of serious economists knew it was going to be way too small. So Keynesian counter-cyclical spending wasn't disproven.

otoh, we are certainly going to see the pro-cyclical spending cuts worsen both unemployment and the depression, which is exactly what the Repugs want, so they can deepen/prolong their depression up to Nov 2012 and keep blaming all their shit on Barry.

[RandomGuy]

This is so ignorant, i don't even know where to begin.

WE just passed a huge stimulus during a recession, if that's not keynesianism, then i don't know what is.


goddammit, you're dumb.

Compared to the depth/size of the BGD, it wasn't enough, and it wasn't even all spent.

The stimulus should have been about $2T. Lots of serious economists knew it was going to be way too small. So Keynesian counter-cyclical spending wasn't disproven.


You beat me to it. The overall Keynsian consensus is that the stimulus was far too small even for the data they had at the time. Given what we know now, it was positively a fleck of spittle against a raging inferno.

Dayum. Ignogokt got taken to the woodshed by boutons?

*That* is saying something.

TROLL-FIGHT!!!!

[RandomGuy]

'huge' is debatable, when looking at spending over GDP on a historical basis (was 100+% of GDP back in WWII).

But it certainly is keynesian. No doubt about it.

What's also keynesian is to tone down the direct government intervention and pay down the debt accrued once the good times roll around. That hardly, if ever, happens.

Instead, when 'good times' come around, we go away from keynesianism and go into monetarism. Where we play with the money supply levers until we are back into a recession, interest rates go near or at zero, and monetarism has no more levers to play with.

Also beat me to explaining to Darrin why no country has actually put a working Keynsian model into place.

[RandomGuy]

I don't think any reasonable person disputes the idea that the laws of the time were for those time. The 10 commandments however are for all times.


So the Bible is the absolute word of God, except when it isn't.

:rollin

How do I tell the difference between what is still good and what isn't?


Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

How many rape victims are we going to force to marry their attackers?

I'm confused.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm sure the original language is quite different. Instead of "raping" it's probably "bonding."

[Blake]

I'm sure the original language is quite different. Instead of "raping" it's probably "bonding."

:lol

[boutons_deux]

Could Unspent Stimulus Money Be Used to Fend Off a New Recession?

So, it seems all the more surprising that the federal government still has $100 billion to $150 billion in stimulus money left to spend. That's about as much as the Making Work Pay tax credit that gave $800 apiece to middle-class families in 2009 and 2010. And it's twice as much as Congress gave to states to stabilize budgets and save education jobs.

http://www.propublica.org/article/could-unspent-stimulus-money-be-mobilized-to-fend-off-a-new-recession

=========

The answer to the silly question in headline's title is clearly NO.

[Agloco]

Could Unspent Stimulus Money Be Used to Fend Off a New Recession?

So, it seems all the more surprising that the federal government still has $100 billion to $150 billion in stimulus money left to spend.

I dont see what that does, except delay the inevitable.

The sooner this bubble is allowed to deflate, the sooner we all can work on re-inflating it. :lol

[boutons_deux]

"this bubble is allowed to deflate"

bubble? hey, stick with physics! :)

the housing/credit bubble is totally deflated, everywhere. Millions of home "renters" (the lien holders control the real estate) are underwater, like 33% of all of them.

[Agloco]

bubble? hey, stick with physics! :)


lol....good advice B. :toast

I was refering to debt burden, national and individual. Dunno what the terminology is for that.

[boutons_deux]

the credit suppliers mailed out in the 2000s Bs of cc's to sucker people, and people got suckered.

As a result, a couple years ago household debt was at a record high,partially due to households try to keep up with the conumserism while their real income has stagnated since St Ronnie took office.

The drop off in consumer spending (except at the wealthy end) has been due to financial insecurity, causing people pay down their debts rather than spend more.

[xrayzebra]

"this bubble is allowed to deflate"

bubble? hey, stick with physics! :)

the housing/credit bubble is totally deflated, everywhere. Millions of home "renters" (the lien holders control the real estate) are underwater, like 33% of all of them.

Stick with physics.....:lol

When you stick with reality.

[boutons_deux]

All Righty Then! XZ has a firm grasp on his REALITY! :lol

[xrayzebra]

All Righty Then! XZ has a firm grasp on his REALITY! :lol

Yep, I recognize an idiot Socialist when I read them.......and you be one.

When are you moving back to Europe, the place you love?

[Agloco]

The drop off in consumer spending (except at the wealthy end) has been due to financial insecurity, causing people pay down their debts rather than spend more.

Since 70% (or so) of the economy is consumer spending.............

Isn't that what we need to let the air out of before the disco balls can be restarted? It's all just a bunch of funny money and hot air at this point no?

[mouse]

Didn't this topic have something to do with the bible?

[mingus]

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


God didn't inspire every word in the Bible. It's widely accepted by both Jews and Christians that the (many) Biblical writers infused the text with their individual personalities and beliefs, separate from God. Some of the outlandish beliefs (like slavery) explain that.

The entire text is being thrown under the bus because of this. And it's unfortunate because the Bible vehemently speaks out against a lot of the stuff that is bringing down American society right now, like greed, materialism, and disintegration of the family.

[Drachen]

God didn't inspire every word in the Bible. It's widely accepted by both Jews and Christians that the (many) Biblical writers infused the text with their individual personalities and beliefs, separate from God. Some of the outlandish beliefs (like slavery) explain that.

The entire text is being thrown under the bus because of this. And it's unfortunate because the Bible vehemently speaks out against a lot of the stuff that is bringing down American society right now, like greed, materialism, and disintegration of the family.

Come on, it is easy to predict what the next counter will be. Maybe you could answer that counter proactively.

pssst. the counter is who gets to decide which parts are inspired by god and which parts are background blather which can be ignored. It would seem that if this was the view held by everyone, then only the direct quotes of Jesus would hold any weight

[boutons_deux]

"The entire text is being thrown under the bus because of this"

by whom?

When the Bible-thumpers insist God "wrote" the entire Bible and every word in literally true, they damage, destroy their own positions as seen by rational, open-minded adults who realize the value of the Bible isn't as a literal scientific, historical, cosmological reference.

[RandomGuy]

That's funny how the austrian school of economics can't be blamed for our credit rating downgrade, our deficit spending, dollar devaluation, but your keynesian school can.

Sucks to be a Keynesian corporatist dick sucker.

LOL Argentina lecturing americans on how to run an economy.



http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/08/img/holtz_eakin1.jpg


Using the most updated data, we can see that in 2009 there is actually about a $544 billion difference between what GDP would have been had it continued to contract as rapidly as it did during the fourth quarter of 2008 and what it actually was. As Holtz-Eakin points out, the total amount of fiscal stimulus during that year was $260 billion. This suggests the Recovery Act produced about $2.10 in economy activity for every $1.00 in spending or tax cuts. That’s a pretty good multiplier.

And if we apply the same methodology to the entire lifespan of the Recovery Act, not just to 2009, the multiplier becomes even more impressive. The total cost of the stimulus bill was about $800 billion, delivered over the course of two years. The difference between actual GDP through the first quarter of 2011 and what GDP would have been had it continued “falling off a cliff” is around $3.3 trillion—implying a multiplier of more than 4.

I would further point out that S & P's ultimate reasons for its downgrade was not a decrease in its faith of the USA to be able to economically sustain its debt.

The reason it decided to pull the trigger was the poisonous political atmosphere in Washington. That atmosphere can be very conclusively laid at the feet of the extremists in the GOP, who said, quite explicitly that they wanted to "blow up" the economy to acheive their political goals.

If that isn't a form of terrorism, I don't know what is.

[ElNono]

Come on, it is easy to predict what the next counter will be. Maybe you could answer that counter proactively.

pssst. the counter is who gets to decide which parts are inspired by god and which parts are background blather which can be ignored. It would seem that if this was the view held by everyone, then only the direct quotes of Jesus would hold any weight

Give him credit. At least he's not going into the 'bonding' vs 'raping' debate. :lol

[boutons_deux]

"The reason it decided to pull the trigger was the poisonous political atmosphere in Washington"

don't believer press releases. I'm sure they told investors ahead of time about the downgrade so the casino could place its bets. No doubt, the bettors pocketed $100Ms.

WC doesn't want us to be jealous of this productive, hard-working, honest bettors. :lol

[Drachen]

Give him credit. At least he's not going into the 'bonding' vs 'raping' debate. :lol

Jesus was a carpenter, presumably a reputable one... OF COURSE HE WOULD BE BONDED. That is what the whole thing was about! Dont you see!!