Next Great Center

[Leetonidas]

:cry serious basketball discussion you guys :cry

So I've been thinking how our most "dominant" center today is a guy with virtually no offensive game besides throwing it down or weak hook shots and Howard has been for quite awhile now.

With Yao Ming guaranteed to never get the chance again and the 2nd best center in the NBA being up for debate (Bogut? Bynum? Noah? Duncan? Cousins perhaps? Too bad Oden will always be injured), do you think/when do you think we'll see another center who can anchor a defense and dominate whoever is defending him? Let's face it, if Howard had the post game of Tim Duncan, Orlando may have a title by now. He is a monster on defense but it really seems like working in the post, practicing your footwork down there, or just generally not being a bitch and shooting jumpers on the perimeter seems like a lost art these days.



I don't follow NCAA or Euroleague (lol greece), so for those of you that do, is there any prospect who looks like he could take the reigns of best center in the league in the future? I can't be the only one who is tired of watching Dwight Howard win DPOY year after year while getting sucked off as the best and most dominant center in the league.

[DMC]

The game has changed so much that the center itself is a lost art. Power forwards can do the work of the center.

Unless someone is grossly huge and cannot operate outside the paint, there's no need for a dominant center.

[Axe Murderer]

Enes Kanter is the only up and coming guy that I can think of that has any legit chance at being the next great center.

If I had to choose anybody, I would say Oden

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

One thought about Howard, the talk of him having a post game is ridiculous. He has the hands of a blacksmith and while he's athletic he has no fluidity in his moves, they're too mechanical and forced. He's not a natural back to the basket player and never will have a Duncan or Olajuwon type post game.

And potentially the next great center is Andre Drummond. I don't see anyone currently in the NBA or someone who was just drafted being a dominant center, Drummond has all the physical ability needed and already has a lot of tools at his disposal.

[DPG21920]

Depends on how you define "great". If you are talking about the next Shaq or Wilt, then it might not happen for a long time, but there are some talented centers coming up like JONAS VALANČIŪNAS. I haven't seen him play hardly at all, but from what I have seen, he looks to be a solid prospect.

Dwight, for all of his knocks, is still a great player. When you are that impactful on defense and can still score at such a high clip against NBA level defense that is solely focused on you, you are doing something right.

[DeadlyDynasty]

^
This. Dwight is not your prototypical post player on offense but he's still a great center. His defense changes the game and he's so athletically gifted that he can score 25-30/night regardless of his lack of post moves.

If you were starting a team from scratch, he'd be the 1st or 2nd guy taken, imho.

[DPG21920]

Definitely. While it's not a beautiful thing or fluid, like DOK said, it's still very effective and he has shown considerable improvement from a diversification stand point on offense. By far, his weakest skill is passing. If he could work on that, it would help tremendously and it would help him really make the leap into the truly elite category.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Pretty much. Shaq was not a good passer early on in his career either, but he really came into his own under Phil and developed into a great passer--an aspect of his game that I still think goes underrated. 1999-2002 Shaq was the most dominant force in the NBA that I've seen in my lifetime. Could've been even longer had he kept in shape.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Definitely. While it's not a beautiful thing or fluid, like DOK said, it's still very effective and he has shown considerable improvement from a diversification stand point on offense. By far, his weakest skill is passing. If he could work on that, it would help tremendously and it would help him really make the leap into the truly elite category.
That's a good point, he's terrible at reading where the double team is coming from and passing out of it, but a lot of players (like Dirk) take years to develop that skill.

I also think how muscular he is hurts him on offense. When you get as big as he did so quickly it basically destroys whatever finesse or touch you had.

[ALVAREZ6]

The game has changed so much that the center itself is a lost art. Power forwards can do the work of the center.

Unless someone is grossly huge and cannot operate outside the paint, there's no need for a dominant center.

Bingo

[pass1st]

A dying breed, like the SG position.

[baseline bum]

Drummond is probably the best center prospect since Oden, and is compared a lot to Amare Stoudemire because of his length and athleticism. He has legit center size though (however, he's not the shotblocker Amare was at that age). Here's a mixtape of Drummond

DYlnK-kQuHA

Two things the mixtape doesn't show are: (1) Drummond is a really good passer in the halfcourt (2) Drummond can get lazy and play down to competition.

[baseline bum]

Isaiah Austin (I think nephew of Ike Austin) is an interesting prospect who has been pegged at the 5 by a lot of people (I don't see him at the C myself), and I think he's already 7' after his junior year. He'll be at Baylor year after next.

QSVCss90BRM

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Baylor is where top tier talent goes to die.

[Jodelo]

Bogut is a really good center, just hope he can stay healthy for several years in a row to reach his potential.

[LeBald Crabs]

Five years from now Valanciunas will be a top3 center in NBA. Book it imho.

[Jose Canseco]

I think there's an argument for Andrew Bynum. As weak as the center position is in the league right now, Bynum has the size and scoring ability that shows as much promise as any other center in the league. Getting consistent touches behind Kobe and Pau has been tough and he's not in the caliber of great centers of the past yet, but I don't really see many other young centers with more promise.

Bogut is a top 5 center in the league. I think he's really good. But next to who are considered really great centers, he pales in comparison. There are a few young guys who may end up being pretty good centers. Oden if he can ever stay healthy. I like JaVale McGee's size and athleticism but he's far from being even a good center just yet. Someone mentioned Joakim Noah. If he learned a consistent post game, I would put him in the discussion. I think Brook Lopez disappointed this past season. His rebounding became inexcusable for a 7 footer. And he regressed overall.

It's really tough to say. There really aren't a lot of young players or even prospects you look at the way you looked at Shaq or Hakeem or Ewing and said it's all but a guarantee that they'll be really good players in the NBA. There just aren't those kinds of centers in the game anymore.

[JMarkJohns]

Drummond plays on half a tank. Insane talent, but not the heart needed to be consistently great. Could be wrong, but I've seen him play down too often vs. players he should be scoring 40 on without a second thought to think it's just going to flip and always be on.

To be honest, I liked Andrew Bynum more as a HS prospect. Better size, strength and he played hard more often. Not the elite athleticism, though, and Drummond is damn good around the basket, so, with the right college coach (Calhoun makes a ton of sense to me), he could have the fire lit and the skills developed to become great.

Austin is a 7-footer who fancies himself as a perimeter player ala Garnett. We'll see. I like his attitude beyond that. Good agility. Not the offensive game yet of Garnett. Closer to a more polished Tyson Chandler or Marcus Camby at the moment.

[baseline bum]

Drummond plays on half a tank. Insane talent, but not the heart needed to be consistently great. Could be wrong, but I've seen him play down too often vs. players he should be scoring 40 on without a second thought to think it's just going to flip and always be on.

To be honest, I liked Andrew Bynum more as a HS prospect. Better size, strength and he played hard more often. Not the elite athleticism, though, and Drummond is damn good around the basket, so, with the right college coach (Calhoun makes a ton of sense to me), he could have the fire lit and the skills developed to become great.

Austin is a 7-footer who fancies himself as a perimeter player ala Garnett. We'll see. I like his attitude beyond that. Good agility. Not the offensive game yet of Garnett. Closer to a more polished Tyson Chandler or Marcus Camby at the moment.

I was disappointed Drummond didn't try to graduate this year. He really needs to get his ass kicked a bit by a good college coach, and I fear he'll go straight to the NBA after graduating next year. The fact that he still hasn't picked a college yet really makes me think he'll go that route though. I really hope he doesn't end up another Eddy Curry. It's frustrating to watch him go invisible for stretches of games that he should be dominating on both sides of the floor.

[baseline bum]

Speaking of bigs, have you seen much of Nerlens Noel? He looks like an intriguing defensive prospect.

[DPG21920]

I agree with Jamstone, but obviously Bynum's health is a concern along with his attitude. He has a lot of talent on both ends, but his injuries may have already stripped some of his athleticism.

Like I said, it depends on how you define great. If it's in the context of today's talents, then there could be a few, but if you are comparing to all time greats, it seems like there are a few Amare-like players coming up and that's not exactly considered great in my book. That is very good though.

[JMarkJohns]

I have heard that the new CBA will more than likely have a two-year rule, so not sure that will happen, but it could. I'm really struggling to find a good comparison of Drummond. Your comparison to Curry is pretty good. Way more athletic, but just as likely to go below his averages than above them. If Drummond goes to Connecticut or Georgetown, he'll do better. If he goes to NC, I'm not sure... Ol' Roy is too friendly, I think. Pitino and Louisville makes some sense as well. Not sure about K and Duke.

You are correct, though. He needs to stop being treated with kid gloves and start getting screamed at and benched. If his pride kicks in and he responds, he'll be a force. Size, Strength and athleticism are all at elite/close-enough levels to really make an impact on the offensive end and on the boards. I've never seen anything that suggests he'll be an elite shot-blocker. I don't think he has the timing aspect down. Maybe footwork can improve, but probably only marginally.

His problem is same as Kwame Brown's... he's long been the biggest, strongest, and often times, most athletic player on the court, and never needed to play "up" at all times to succeed. These types typically develop bad habits that are seldom remedied. I mean, we just mentioned Curry, Chandler, Brown... both similar. Derrick Favors is as well. Cousins is unique because I don't think he plays hard, but plays angry, which works until it derails.

Drummond definitely needs a coach who's going to hold him accountable and put immense pressure on him. Without it he'll have a rather listless Chris Wilcox-type of career and never really make an impact.

[JMarkJohns]

I agree with Jamstone, but obviously Bynum's health is a concern along with his attitude. He has a lot of talent on both ends, but his injuries may have already stripped some of his athleticism.

Has Jamstone posted in this thread? Jose and I mentioned Bynum...


Like I said, it depends on how you define great. If it's in the context of today's talents, then there could be a few, but if you are comparing to all time greats, it seems like there are a few Amare-like players coming up and that's not exactly considered great in my book. That is very good though.

HS just is too easy for big men. Half their stats come against players physically inferior and incapable of competing. One player I can speak as an authority on is Angelo Chol. He's an Arizona Wildcat incoming freshman from San Diego. He recently just set the state record for blocks, and finished his high school career with totals in the top-5 all-time nationally. At 6-9, 220 pounds he's not so big and strong that he's overly imposing, but he's a very good athlete, so that helps a lot. However, his wingspan is ridiculous, and close to 90% of his high school games he was pitted against 6-6 and under types where he was essentially superhuman with everything factored in.

Now, Chol plays hard, so it stands to reason that he should improve as he progresses through college, but how many bigs just figure they can do enough by doing the bare minimum? Way too many. Even in the AAU seasons when they are finally matched up against other elite bigs, so little attention is paid to defense that nothing done is a true indication of their potential.

With the new generation of Amare-types, it leads to 6-9+ players who are thrilled to score 30 and content to grab 8 rebounds and who thinks good defense is 2+ blocks per game. The impact overall is still, as you put it, very good, and I would agree that it's tough to label a player "great" overall when your world-class athlete PF is merely pulling down 8-9 rebounds a game. The tough thing about bringing Amare into this is he worked his ass off to develop an offensive game that rivals many of the modern greats, which is one of the primary concerns about most of the potentially "great" centers like Howard, Bynum or Oden... these three have the rebounds, blocks and defense down, but they can't seem to become that foundational player that can carry a team like Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson or Shaq.

The concern is just as much offensive development as it is defensive, it's just some bizarro indictment where nobody can seemingly put it all together and nobody quite knows why. In cases like Drummond it is pretty obvious it's an issue of motivation and challenge. Problem is, in HS, he's not challenged enough, and therefore isn't motivated, and the coaches aren't holding him accountable. What are they gonna do, bench the #1 player in the country/in the tournament/on their team?

[baseline bum]

I have heard that the new CBA will more than likely have a two-year rule, so not sure that will happen, but it could. I'm really struggling to find a good comparison of Drummond. Your comparison to Curry is pretty good. Way more athletic, but just as likely to go below his averages than above them. If Drummond goes to Connecticut or Georgetown, he'll do better. If he goes to NC, I'm not sure... Ol' Roy is too friendly, I think. Pitino and Louisville makes some sense as well. Not sure about K and Duke.

You are correct, though. He needs to stop being treated with kid gloves and start getting screamed at and benched. If his pride kicks in and he responds, he'll be a force. Size, Strength and athleticism are all at elite/close-enough levels to really make an impact on the offensive end and on the boards. I've never seen anything that suggests he'll be an elite shot-blocker. I don't think he has the timing aspect down. Maybe footwork can improve, but probably only marginally.

His problem is same as Kwame Brown's... he's long been the biggest, strongest, and often times, most athletic player on the court, and never needed to play "up" at all times to succeed. These types typically develop bad habits that are seldom remedied. I mean, we just mentioned Curry, Chandler, Brown... both similar. Derrick Favors is as well. Cousins is unique because I don't think he plays hard, but plays angry, which works until it derails.

Drummond definitely needs a coach who's going to hold him accountable and put immense pressure on him. Without it he'll have a rather listless Chris Wilcox-type of career and never really make an impact.

I think Drummond is a much better player than Curry though, so that gives me some hope for him. Curry seemed like he was just a dunker and the guy always had weight problems. Drummond at least knows how to pass the ball and can put it on the floor a bit. The release on his jumper is really low though; it's definitely not an NBA shot. I always have doubts about guys who are just dunkers even if they throw up huge stats after seeing BJ Mullens crash and burn. With HS kids it's always such a crapshoot.

As for Kwame, do you think MJ broke him, or was he destined for spectacular failure? It always cracks me up to go back to the nbadraft.net page for him and see him listed as a 109 on a scale where 100 is often a #1 pick. :lol

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/kwame-brown

[TD 21]

No one capable of cracking the top ten of Russell, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, Malone, Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, O'Neal, Duncan and Howard.

Two are capable of being in the next ten: Bynum and Oden. Bynum is the only current center not named Howard with the potential to perennially average 20 ppg, 10 rpg, 2 bpg. Oden, even if healthy and with further development, I can't see as a 20 ppg scorer, but I could see him challenging Howard for the rebounding/shot blocking titles and the DPOY award.

If Bynum maintains or exceeds his play from the second half of last season next season and Duncan further declines, he could surpass him as the second best center in the league. But right now, it's still Duncan. Don't let a six game sample size against a bad match-up fool you.

[JMarkJohns]

Definitely a crap shoot...

One example that I still have zero idea how it worked out is how the 6-8, 260 Al Jefferson was able to become a 20-10 player at his NBA peak, but the 6-11, 270 Randolph Morris has merely bounced around...

Both were highly skilled low-post players who had great footwork, positioning and instincts for classic C play. Neither were great athletes, but each made up for it by knowing more, playing in control and playing hard. I saw Morris destroy the much more athletic Dwight Howard in HS. The odd part is it was the shorter, slightly heftier PF who succeeded with the traditional skillset rather than the traditionally heighted/weighted C. What the hell? Crapshoot... All it is.

If Drummond goes to a player-friendly school for a year or two, he may be too far gone to ever dominate in the NBA. He needs to learn to care all the time very soon.

[endrity]

Valenciunas, the guy has star written all over him.

[DPG21920]

Jamstone = Jose

Tyson = Kool

These are things we know.

[DPG21920]

:lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I think as far as being dominant, the Oden ship has sailed. IMO, the best case scenario for him is a defensive specialist who can play the role Tyson Chandler played last year on the Mavs, but even then I don't see Greg Oden having the basketball IQ or personality to be the leader Chandler is.

Even when Oden was healthy, I never saw potential for offensive dominance.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

With the new generation of Amare-types, it leads to 6-9+ players who are thrilled to score 30 and content to grab 8 rebounds and who thinks good defense is 2+ blocks per game. The impact overall is still, as you put it, very good, and I would agree that it's tough to label a player "great" overall when your world-class athlete PF is merely pulling down 8-9 rebounds a game.
I, find it remarkably easy to label a player great when he's the difference between a team being 2 games from the NBA finals and a team being in the lottery.

Doesn't surprise me tho, because it's a culture in the state of Arizona to do everything humanely possible to minimize Amare's impact.

[djohn2oo8]

Bynum. Just a matter of whether or not the gun powder in his knees are reduced or not.

[baseline bum]

This is sad when the most promising answers are Glass-Knee Drew and Sam Bowie Part 2.

[TD 21]

I think as far as being dominant, the Oden ship has sailed. IMO, the best case scenario for him is a defensive specialist who can play the role Tyson Chandler played last year on the Mavs, but even then I don't see Greg Oden having the basketball IQ or personality to be the leader Chandler is.

Even when Oden was healthy, I never saw potential for offensive dominance.

To revise what I said earlier: Oden, even if healthy, won't challenge Howard (and Love for rebounding) for rebound/block shot titles and the DPOY award, because he'll probably never play enough games or log enough minutes to be seriously considered. Nonetheless, if healthy, he could push to be the best rebounder/shot blocker in the league.

History shows that roughly every five years or so, an all time great big man comes along. Because of how the game has evolved, that will probably become closer to ten years or so. It's been seven years and counting since the last one. But eventually, we will see someone who's, if not in the class of O'Neal and Duncan, at least in the class of Howard. It's inevitable.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

im still waiting to see how greg monroe will turn out. Hes a PF/C center like duncan & could be a surprise star.

[Leetonidas]

Greg Monroe is a player I thought had the potential to be a 20/10 guy in this league. Hopefully he gets there, but nothing about his game really screams "dominating." People say the game has changed and evolved without centers but I think that's because there are no centers to build around these days

[JMarkJohns]

I, find it remarkably easy to label a player great when he's the difference between a team being 2 games from the NBA finals and a team being in the lottery.

Doesn't surprise me tho, because it's a culture in the state of Arizona to do everything humanely possible to minimize Amare's impact.

Amare is a great offensive player. His overall impact is very high, but his inability/unwillingness on the glass and down low certainly undercuts his status as overall "great" a bit.

[djohn2oo8]

To revise what I said earlier: Oden, even if healthy, won't challenge Howard (and Love for rebounding) for rebound/block shot titles and the DPOY award, because he'll probably never play enough games or log enough minutes to be seriously considered. Nonetheless, if healthy, he could push to be the best rebounder/shot blocker in the league.

History shows that roughly every five years or so, an all time great big man comes along. Because of how the game has evolved, that will probably become closer to ten years or so. It's been seven years and counting since the last one. But eventually, we will see someone who's, if not in the class of O'Neal and Hakeem, at least in the class of Howard. It's inevitable.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Amare is a great offensive player. His overall impact is very high, but his inability/unwillingness on the glass and down low certainly undercuts his status as overall "great" a bit.
Yeah, Amare was a shit rebounder. I'm sure that's why the Suns were a worse rebounding team last year than they ever were with Amare.

They showed so much promise on defense and on the glass without that cancerous spook last year!

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Given that Amare is 3rd all time in total rebounds as a Sun and 10th all time in rebounds per game as a Sun, all the Suns fans who whine incessantly about how he wasn't a better rebounder (:cry) must think the Suns are a pretty shit rebounding team in their 43 year history.

It's weird, when overrated honkies like Alvan Adams are mediocre rebounders, Suns fans don't seem to care, but they seem to think all black NBA players 6'10" and over should average 15 rebounds a game.

[JMarkJohns]

Don't exaggerate for me. I can do well enough on my own. Fact of the matter is that the Suns have been a pretty mediocre rebounding and defensive team for much of their history.

Adams is before my time, but I was vocal about Chambers and Gugliotta not rebounding up to their position (or as needed/able), and, just so it's not a black/white thing, have recently been critical of Lopez and Frye (both mixed race) as well.

Amare's impact on the Suns is undeniable. Anyone who belittles is wrong. Overall, Amare's impact on the greater game is a little less due to his inconsistencies as a rebounder, shot-blocker and inabilities as a defender. I also blame whitey D'Antoni for fostering a culture where Amare didn't have to care and improve.

I've said it while he was a Sun, and I'm saying it now.

I'm also not a bitter Suns fan who's upset he left the beloved organization. I don't blame/begrudge him at all for bolting Sarver. Not one bit.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It's def. a black/white thing in this city.

When a white guy (Nash) sucks at defense, Suns fans say, "Hey tries so hard (:cry), he's just not meant to be a defender!"

When a black guy (Amare) sucks at defense, Suns fans say, "That no good lazy piece of shit could be a defensive player of the year candidate if he tried :madrun! Thank you Sarver for not offering that bum a max contract!"

That's^ not some coincidence.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Amare averaged 9.0 rebounds per game as a PF. How much of a difference would the 2-3 more rebounds people expected from him have made?

[JMarkJohns]

In the city... not my posts. I've been critical of both, plus the coaching (white or black) that doesn't/didn't hold 'em accountable.

You are correct with the overriding sentiment, although I still maintain that the most overrated defensive position is PG. However, the argument can be made that the constant flood of slashers to the basket was more than most reasonable "shotblockers/defenders" could handle, but this also extends just beyond Nash and Amare's defense and encompasses the team as a whole. Even the teams better defenders were susceptible to matador defense and untimely lapses.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

True. I'll never understand how Raja Bell and Shawn Marion were considered shutdown defenders when Ginobili and Parker basically got to the rim at will against them.

[lefty]

Bogut is a really good center, just hope he can stay healthy for several years in a row to reach his potential.
I agree

[JMarkJohns]

Amare averaged 9.0 rebounds per game as a PF. How much of a difference would the 2-3 more rebounds people expected from him have made?

Rebounding isn't just the hard numbers. Rebounding is much more the journey than the destination. It's about being in the right position, always putting a body on someone to minimize their ability to track down the ball, even if you are out of position to get the rebound, it's about always going hard. Watch a player like Noah on the boards. He doesn't get every rebound, but he damn sure as an impact on just about all of them, through tipping, through boxing out, through hustle, etc...

Maybe you're out of the play half the time, but just playing smart, hard and in position can keep 2/3 offensive rebounds out of your opposition's hands, and maybe give your team an extra 2/3 chances at offensive rebounds, all of which is entirely independent and in addition to the extra 2/3 rebounds playing smart, hard and in position adds to your own stats. Ultimately, maybe it's worth 10 points. How many games are decided by less than that?

[JMarkJohns]

True. I'll never understand how Raja Bell and Shawn Marion were considered shutdown defenders when Ginobili and Parker basically got to the rim at will against them.

Marion was an athlete with great defensive stats and Bell was a bully (or wannabe) who did what it took to look tough. In a game driven by stats and perception, I understand it, and while they were better defenders than not, they weren't all-defensive. Both were average at best on-ball defenders. Thomas was the only actual defender who could be counted on, and he barely played.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

When Amare got to play power forward, he did everything you described. Asking him to body up a center several inches taller than him weighing 20+ pounds more than him wasn't realistic. As far as Noah goes, he has a motor you're either born with or you're not. His ability to put that much effort in on every play isn't something you can develop. Plenty of dominant big men (Shaq and Duncan just to name a few) took plenty of plays off.

Amare also has an extremely frail lower body and is maybe 6'9" with platform shoes on. The reason he was out of position so often is largely because it's easy for centers he was going up against to muscle him out of position.

[lefty]

Valenciunas, the guy has star written all over him.
Yup, he has great potential

[JMarkJohns]

I'm not blaming Amare for everything, but like I said, perception is part of the opinion and I've seen plenty of plays where Amare is standing free, out of position, nobody boxed out, and not even jumping on a play not that far from him.

Again, the organization, coaching and system factors in, as, like you said, he was demanded to carry a team by playing out of position for most of his career, and, his dipshit owner balked every chance he got at putting/keeping a reasonable C on the roster to help balance out Amare's downside. I could fuckin' spit in Sarver's face for selling off Gortat all those years ago. I said it then and it's proven now, Gortat was exactly the C perfect for helping to offset Amare's rebounding woes, while having the offense to keep up with D'Antoni.

Amare is to be credited more than he ever has been for his comeback from two career-threatening injuries. Lesser players (Googs/Penny) simply quit and collect their paydays.

I'm also pissed at not being able to draft Noah. Goddamn Atlanta. Amare/Noah owns. Fuck!

[JMarkJohns]

While I haven't heard too many grumbles about Duncan, it should be noted that many people have chided Shaq throughout his career for being an indifferent rebounder too often, and for not putting up 14/15 per numbers and settling for 10-11 per.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Don't remind me of how perfect Amare and Gortat would be. Gortat was the missing ingredient they always needed, a tough center who wasn't afraid to call his lazy ass teammates out.

[Stalin]

^ Gortat is polish, scro. You might be overestimating him.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Tbh I'm Polish and Russian, some Polish people know how to put in det work :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

wattaboiut the younger gasol bro at memphis...he seems legit

[djohn2oo8]

wattaboiut the younger gasol bro at memphis...he seems legit

Lol no..above average at best

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

wattaboiut the younger gasol bro at memphis...he seems legit

hes certainly starter material but prob will never be an allstar.

[JMarkJohns]

Drummond to Prep School. If the rule doesn't change, he's definitely going to enter next year's draft.

[frodo]

in the 20th century the game favored big men but it's changed alot if you persist to play a center-oriented game you may as well assign your scouts to europe, euro league got some hardcore niggas there tbh

[Giuseppe]

The league has declared war on centers. They won't let them loiter the paint, so they've grown happy feet and cannot refine their game. They're permanently compromised.

[baseline bum]

Drummond to Prep School. If the rule doesn't change, he's definitely going to enter next year's draft.

I don't get this at all. I thought there were concerns about him graduating on time, but I saw an article saying he did. Are his SAT's horrible or something? Does he or his family think he's not NCAA material? This decision is ridiculous if there isn't an SAT problem.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Drummond to Prep School. If the rule doesn't change, he's definitely going to enter next year's draft.
I thought Drummond was in the class of 2012, how is he gonna enter the 2012 draft?

[baseline bum]

I thought Drummond was in the class of 2012, how is he gonna enter the 2012 draft?

He has graduated. He's taking a postgrad year in HS.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

Cousins will be a stud and has center size and is skilled

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

He has graduated. He's taking a postgrad year in HS.
:lmao high school 5 year plan

[baseline bum]

:lmao high school 5 year plan

I really hope this guy's SAT was shit, because the other explanation is he wanted to play with his AAU friend. How do you graduate from one high school and then transfer to another? :lmao

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9623/dren.jpg

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I know a kid who did that, but in his case he wasn't nearly good enough to be going D-1 and didn't have the money for college.

Why Drummond is doing it who fuckin knows.

[jacobdrj]

DeAndre Jordan?

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

DeAndre Jordan?

he has the potential but doubt he has the discipline or motor to reach superstar status.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

Roy Hibbert?

[JMarkJohns]

Drummond to UConn, now, this season, last minute... Big time pickup. Crazy.

Best college for him to go to, IMO, as Calhoun, in on the downslope, coaches up big men.

[baseline bum]

Nice!



http://twitter.com/#!/AndreDrummond03/status/107234694764040192
It's official I'm heading to the university of connecticut to be a husky this year! Do I hear #repeat (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23repeat) #huskyfam (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23huskyfam) @aoriakhi34 (http://twitter.com/aoriakhi34)

[baseline bum]

Supposedly UConn is out of scholarships, so is he paying his way, or what? Still, who cares about $10,000 for a year of school when you're going to be making millions in a year? I'm really happy for Drummond to be going there; I think this will be much better for his future.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

If there is an NBA season, the Suns should tank hard for this guy. I don't even want them winning a game.

[JMarkJohns]

Supposedly he's paying his own way. Also, I'm still hearing there's a pretty strong likelihood of a 2-year rule. Have to see, though... might end up and a "concession" of the owners to the players.

[baseline bum]

If there is an NBA season, the Suns should tank hard for this guy. I don't even want them winning a game.

So much talent in this 2012 draft... unless I was a fan of the Heat, Mavs, Bulls, Thunder, or Lakers, I'd want my team tanking too.

[baseline bum]

Supposedly he's paying his own way. Also, I'm still hearing there's a pretty strong likelihood of a 2-year rule. Have to see, though... might end up and a "concession" of the owners to the players.

I think the players are going to give on the two big things (hard cap and guaranteed contracts), and the 2 year rule will end up a stumbling block the owners won't fight for after getting what they wanted most. It would be nice if there was an ABA still for young players to circumvent that garbage though.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

So much talent in this 2012 draft... unless I was a fan of the Heat, Mavs, Bulls, Thunder, or Lakers, I'd want my team tanking too.

i know but even if your teams pick is in the low 20's your still gonna get a good pick that would normaly be a late lottery pick in a reg draft.

[baseline bum]

Oh man, if Calhoun can get this guy playing hard every possession... hopefully it happens now that he'll be playing real competition.

mXB6vc5Z_A4

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Best big man prospect since Dwight Howard (before anyone says Greg Oden, he even when healthy doesn't have 1/10th of the fluidity Drummond does on a basketball court, you'd never see Oden pushing the ball and leading fast breaks).

[DPG21920]

Next Hakim Warrick or Amare?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I think he's Amare only taller, stronger, more skill, but has an even bigger problem of half assing it for stretches and not making as big an impact as he can. It's also yet to be seen if he can enter the NBA and have show almost no fear or timidness attacking the rim the way Amare did his rookie year.

[DPG21920]

Eh, I know it didn't happen over night, but I don't think he has more skill than Amare and Amare's jumper is wet. The release on Drummond's jumper is way too low and his mechanics aren't great.

It will be interesting to see how he progresses.

[Monostradamus]

Supposedly UConn is out of scholarships, so is he paying his way, or what? Still, who cares about $10,000 for a year of school when you're going to be making millions in a year? I'm really happy for Drummond to be going there; I think this will be much better for his future.


Supposedly he's paying his own way. Also, I'm still hearing there's a pretty strong likelihood of a 2-year rule. Have to see, though... might end up and a "concession" of the owners to the players.

Looks like they're gonna make some scrub give up his scholarship for a year in order to make room. And according to the link, Drummond can't pay his own way because he's considered a recruited athlete - I have no clue about any of this so maybe someone who knows about this can clarify.

http://www.chron.com/news/article/UCONN-MEN-Michael-Bradley-exploring-giving-up-2146675.php

[Monostradamus]

Eh, I know it didn't happen over night, but I don't think he has more skill than Amare and Amare's jumper is wet. The release on Drummond's jumper is way too low and his mechanics aren't great.

It will be interesting to see how he progresses.

tbh watching that mixtape, that's the one negative I got from it. His shot looks like shit, but if it goes in who cares I guess.

[DPG21920]

Ya, but with a release that low, not only is he susceptible to being stripped, but blocked. He will struggle to get his own shot off if that doesn't improve. Obviously, he has a ton of talent, so that can happen, just like Amare.

I never get overly excited about prospects tbh, especially big men. The last one I was excited about was Oden. I actually think many of the big men in this last class look better than Drummond (but they have been playing pro so they should be further along).

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Eh, I know it didn't happen over night, but I don't think he has more skill than Amare and Amare's jumper is wet. The release on Drummond's jumper is way too low and his mechanics aren't great.

It will be interesting to see how he progresses.
True Amare's jumper is better, when I said more skilled version I was more saying coming into the NBA he's more skilled than Amare. Obviously Amare after 8 years in the NBA is more skilled than Drummond is right now. Drummond also has a bigger frame that's capable of playing center.

The big question is whether or not Drummond's focus and intensity level will improve once he realizes that he needs to play hard on both ends to have an impact in the NBA where everyone around him isn't at a huge physical disadvantage. That video is a shining example of why big men who go right from high school to the NBA have an extremely tough transition.

[ElNono]

IMO that nigga Lincoln has all it takes to be det great next center, tbh

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

And thank god Kemba Walker went to the NBA.

NC:lol:lol = f:lmaocked if Kemba and Drummond are on the same team next year

[baseline bum]

And thank god Kemba Walker went to the NBA.

NC:lol:lol = f:lmaocked if Kemba and Drummond are on the same team next year

NC:lol:lol already = f:lmaocked with Barnes, Henson, McAdoo, Marshall, Zeller, and Hairston on one team tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

True :lol. While we're at it...

A year from now NC:lol:lol = f:lmaocked with Ashley, Jerrett, Tarc, Chol, Turner, and Nick Johnson on one team tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

A few weeks ago Derrick Williams had a status on FB about how he woulda stayed in college if he knew there'd be a lockout in the NBA, which is kinda frustrating given that everyone and their mother knew there'd be a lockout this year. I wonder what desperate money grubbing dickhead convinced him there wouldn't be a lockout hoping they'd freeload off him once he got his contract.

what could have been :cry:cry:cry

[Isitjustme?]

mXB6vc5Z_A4

Looks like he has no post game whatsoever. He'll fit right in with today's big men.

[G-Dawgg]

I definately think that if Bynum could shake his nagging knee injury that he's young enough, and has the size, and skills at his age to eventually become the best center in the league...

As much as I hate the Lakers, I do honestly believe this.

[Killakobe81]

When Amare got to play power forward, he did everything you described. Asking him to body up a center several inches taller than him weighing 20+ pounds more than him wasn't realistic. As far as Noah goes, he has a motor you're either born with or you're not. His ability to put that much effort in on every play isn't something you can develop. Plenty of dominant big men (Shaq and Duncan just to name a few) took plenty of plays off.

Amare also has an extremely frail lower body and is maybe 6'9" with platform shoes on. The reason he was out of position so often is largely because it's easy for centers he was going up against to muscle him out of position.

Shaq took plays off GTFO!!!

and duncan took plays off = blasphemy (LOL)