lol stock market

[Venti Quattro]

lol crashing again

[Wild Cobra]

lol crashing again
Good...

I get to buy stocks cheaper for my retirement account.

[ElNono]

Good...

I get to buy stocks cheaper for my retirement account.

lol your retirement account

[cheguevara]

pretty much. Even if you luck out somehow a miracle happens and you don't lose 70% of your retirement stocks. They still will not gain much value in 10 years.

These days putting your retirement money on the stock market is almost as stupid as taking your retiment funds to Vegas and betting it all on 23 red.

[cheguevara]

btw I still have 40k of mine in the stock market. watching that shit sink like the titanic :(

[ElNono]

i7V8hgVU98w

[cheguevara]

lol

problem is even taking the money out and letting it sit in a bank is a bad idea cause of the dollar value. canadian money is looking good right about now.

[BlackSwordsMan]

when obama is kicked out of office next year it'll go back up

[cheguevara]

President Bachman will save the country!

[Pistons < Spurs]

Jul 21: 12,724
Aug 8: 10,810

[ElNono]

lol

problem is even taking the money out and letting it sit in a bank is a bad idea cause of the dollar value. canadian money is looking good right about now.

The real problem is that people want to offset way more than inflation on the market. They want to become millionaires through their micromanaging. It's very much like the casino.

[Ed Lover]

C'mon son

I'm not worrying until that shit falls below 9

It's correcting itself to where it should have been months ago. There's been no muthafuckin' reason it should have been above 12k with unemployment/housing/and the trade deficit being what it is, not to mention rampant government spending and the ever expanding budget deficit.

Nigga,that's why I've been in precious metals since 2008 son.

GOLD and PLATINUM bitches

[Agloco]

lol crashing again

The dreaded double dip coming?

[Wild Cobra]

The dreaded double dip coming?
Cycles are normal.

Why is everyone panicking?

[Agloco]

Cycles are normal.

Why is everyone panicking?

Have we ever had a double dip? I mean like gonig back to circa 6500 or so.....

[Wild Cobra]

Have we ever had a double dip? I mean like gonig back to circa 6500 or so.....
Maybe before I was watching the markets. Doesn't mean we won't recover.

Sure, the markets could fail. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are new here. I have at times stated in the past that we are doomed as a nation. I do hope I'm wrong, and part of that hope is still participating in stocks.

If we are doomed, I don't really know what a better investment option through my employer sponsored retirements accounts would be anyway.

I see it as we either win or lose, as a nation. What good is me hording cash going to be if we fail? I simply err on the side of optimism. Sure hate not to invested if it is the right thing to do.

As fucked up as things are becoming... and as I predicted years ago, I still have hope, that we will pull our collective heads out of our collective asses.

[ElNono]

Maybe before I was watching the markets. Doesn't mean we won't recover.

Sure, the markets could fail. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are new here. I have at times stated in the past that we are doomed as a nation. I do hope I'm wrong, and part of that hope is still participating in stocks.

If we are doomed, I don't really know what a better investment option through my employer sponsored retirements accounts would be anyway.

I see it as we either win or lose, as a nation. What good is me hording cash going to be if we fail? I simply err on the side of optimism. Sure hate not to invested if it is the right thing to do.

As fucked up as things are becoming... and as I predicted years ago, I still have hope, that we will pull our collective heads out of our collective asses.

I thought you didn't buy into the scare tactics... :lol
That sounds pretty much all doom and gloom.

[Wild Cobra]

I thought you didn't buy into the scare tactics... :lol
That sounds pretty much all doom and gloom.
If you don't remember the context I speak of, too bad.

[ElNono]

:lmao

[4>0rings]

Good...

I get to buy stocks cheaper for my retirement account.
Selling out the country for your own greed. :tu

[angrydude]

Nowadays, if you really want to make money in the stock market, you shouldn't hold anything for long, cause this shit will keep happening to you, wiping out all your gains.

cash is king

[DarrinS]

It was surreal watching Obama's speech today with a real time graphic of the stock market plunging right next to his head.

[DMX7]

when obama is kicked out of office next year it'll go back up

like it went back up when the Pelosi was kicked out of as House Speaker?


It was surreal watching Obama's speech today with a real time graphic of the stock market plunging right next to his head.

You must not have watched any of GWB's Press Conferences.

[DarrinS]

These days putting your retirement money on the stock market is almost as stupid as taking your retiment funds to Vegas and betting it all on 23 red.


I guess the millions of Americans with 401k plans are complete idiots.

[DMX7]

Many companies are reporting record earnings. This is just typical Wall Street panic. It doesn't bother me though. I may actually starting buying tomorrow.

[ElNono]

I guess the millions of Americans with 401k plans are complete idiots.

Well, they did read the fine print that said they could lose money too, right?
So, they willingly bet and lost. I can't really feel sorry for them, tbh.

[DarrinS]

Well, they did read the fine print that said they could lose money too, right?
So, they willingly bet and lost. I can't really feel sorry for them, tbh.


There's nothing wrong with investing in stocks, as long as you're in it for the long haul.

[Agloco]

Maybe before I was watching the markets. Doesn't mean we won't recover.

Sure, the markets could fail. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are new here. I have at times stated in the past that we are doomed as a nation. I do hope I'm wrong, and part of that hope is still participating in stocks.

Sorry, but I seem to have lost my rose-tinted specs. The shit has hit the fan, and the monkey ain't done flinging yet.

Not sure what to do though.......

[ElNono]

There's nothing wrong with investing in stocks, as long as you're in it for the long haul.

Maybe. I could agree with that in the past. I'm not sold the same rules apply anymore though.

I mean, I'm sure the market will rebound from this race to the bottom. I'm just not sure the rebound will be enough to offset the money lost + inflation over time. Especially if the economy is contracting.

Too many bullshit with nanotransactions and all that crap going on now, basically unregulated and half the people don't outright now what the impact is.
This isn't your grandpa's market.

[Drachen]

Maybe. I could agree with that in the past. I'm not sold the same rules apply anymore though.

I mean, I'm sure the market will rebound from this race to the bottom. I'm just not sure the rebound will be enough to offset the money lost + inflation over time. Especially if the economy is contracting.

Too many bullshit with nanotransactions and all that crap going on now, basically unregulated and half the people don't outright now what the impact is.
This isn't your grandpa's market.

I will be honest, it would seem like these nanotransactions would do nothing but smooth out the ups and downs. I guess that is not true.

[ElNono]

I will be honest, it would seem like these nanotransactions would do nothing but smooth out the ups and downs. I guess that is not true.

Follow the money. A lot of dough being invested in that right now. You only justify that if it's returning money. After the last flash crash, the impact is certainly measurable, and it isn't pretty, is it?

[DarrinS]

I lost about 5000 today. No big whoop. It's all the panicky fucktards that make it worse.

[SnakeBoy]

Not sure what to do though.......

For the long term, a diversified fund is still going to payoff. If your playing the market yourself do what everyone else is doing, buy gold (stocks) and wait for the bottom.

[Winehole23]

It's all the panicky fucktards that make it worse.Losing 5-10% and more in a single day tends to focus one's backers. Panicky fuckers indeed.

[Winehole23]

The S&P 500 shed 79.92 points, or 6.66 percent (http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2011/08/08/tms-falls-25-as-wall-street-tanks.html)

[Drachen]

Sorry, but I seem to have lost my rose-tinted specs. The shit has hit the fan, and the monkey ain't done flinging yet.

Not sure what to do though.......

Dunno, buy long term call options on blue chips?

[Wild Cobra]

I lost about 5000 today. No big whoop. It's all the panicky fucktards that make it worse.
Yep, as the idiots buy high and sell low, the wealthy buy low and sell high. Then the idiots complain about how unfair it it.

[boutons_deux]

The wealthy are in on HST, which accounts now for 60%+ of all trades, a sophisticated form of pump-and-dump.

[DarkReign]

I lost about 5000 today. No big whoop. It's all the panicky fucktards that make it worse.

Oh really? Thats why a certain someone I know losing upwards of 250k yesterday is no big deal. He's just a panicky fucktard?

After losing somewhere near $100k the day before.

[cheguevara]

Selling out the country for your own greed. :tu

it's the american way

[cheguevara]

There's nothing wrong with investing in stocks, as long as you're in it for the long haul.

tell that to the poor bastards that were due to retire in 2008,2009,2010

[Drachen]

tell that to the poor bastards that were due to retire in 2008,2009,2010

To be fair, he did say "as long as you are in it for the long haul". I personally agree.

[cheguevara]

the point is even in 'long haul' you have to take your money out sometime. And that sometime could be in a recession.

[Drachen]

the point is even in 'long haul' you have to take your money out sometime. And that sometime could be in a recession.

right, which is why it is advisable to begin transferring your retirement into less risky assets the closer you get to when you will need it.

It would be pretty dumb to keep money in the stock market up to the day that you are retiring. Unfortunately, the market had been doing relatively well up until around 2006-2007 so a lot of people were made bad financial decisions by keeping their money in the stock market in hopes that the party would continue.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I lost about 5000 today. No big whoop. It's all the panicky fucktards that make it worse.
This. When it rains on wallstreet it pours because of idiots who overreact to every tiny piece of news that has nothing to do with the companies they're investing in.

[ElNono]

right, which is why it is advisable to begin transferring your retirement into less risky assets the closer you get to when you will need it.

It would be pretty dumb to keep money in the stock market up to the day that you are retiring. Unfortunately, the market had been doing relatively well up until around 2006-2007 so a lot of people were made bad financial decisions by keeping their money in the stock market in hopes that the party would continue.

So you're saying that moving your retirement money from stocks to less risky assets in the past 5 years would be a bad financial decision? That's a fairly long time for people that are retiring and might need part or all their money.

Could you also define what 'relatively well' means in the context you put it?
Outpaced inflation 'well'? Made more than it lost 'well'? Made substantially more than it lost 'well'?

[Winehole23]

http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2011/08/who-has-got-margin-call.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BronteCapital+%28Bronte+Capit al%29

[Drachen]

So you're saying that moving your retirement money from stocks to less risky assets in the past 5 years would be a bad financial decision? That's a fairly long time for people that are retiring and might need part or all their money.

If you enter the storm, you are going to have to ride it out. If someone is sitting there in 2006 and plans on retiring in 2011, they should have very little exposure to the stock market. If they stayed in past 2007, then they should they have to stick it out, and make the best of things by buying low.



Could you also define what 'relatively well' means in the context you put it?
Outpaced inflation 'well'? Made more than it lost 'well'? Made substantially more than it lost 'well'?

2002-2007 = 87% increase in S&P.

[coyotes_geek]

down triple digits again. apparantely the market isn't too happy with what the fed said today.

[cheguevara]

The Federal Reserve pledged for the first time to keep its benchmark interest rate at a record low at least through mid-2013 in a bid to revive the flagging recovery after a worldwide stock rout.

The Federal Open Market Committee discussed a range of policy tools to bolster the economy and said it is “prepared to employ these tools as appropriate,” it said in a statement today in Washington. Three members of the FOMC dissented, preferring to maintain the pledge to keep rates low for an “extended period.”

The decision represents the biggest effort since November to spark the U.S. economy and revive confidence while stopping short of initiating a third round of large-scale asset purchases. Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and his colleagues acted after reports showed the economy was slowing and an unprecedented downgrade to the U.S. credit rating sent stocks tumbling from Sydney to New York.

The Fed offered a dimmer view of the economy than it did in the last statement in late June. “Economic growth so far this year has been considerably slower than the committee had expected,” it said. The Fed also said it expects a “somewhat slower pace of recovery over coming quarters,” adding that “downside risks to the economic outlook have increased.”

[ElNono]

If you enter the storm, you are going to have to ride it out. If someone is sitting there in 2006 and plans on retiring in 2011, they should have very little exposure to the stock market. If they stayed in past 2007, then they should they have to stick it out, and make the best of things by buying low.

Is it riding out a storm or outright gambling?
Sometimes you can't postpone your retirement indefinitely.


2002-2007 = 87% increase in S&P.

2001-2011 = 2% decrease in S&P (was +4% until the last hit)

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Ok. I didn't know where to post this and didnt want to start a thread. Plus, I haven't seen this addressed any where on here. If I'm mistaken, then please forgive me. With all this mess; market, credit ratings, etc, why is gas going down? It was at least a quarter more on Friday than it is today.

[coyotes_geek]

Ok. I didn't know where to post this and didnt want to start a thread. Plus, I haven't seen this addressed any where on here. If I'm mistaken, then please forgive me. With all this mess; market, credit ratings, etc, why is gas going down? It was at least a quarter more on Friday than it is today.

Speculation that a coming recession will reduce future demand for oil.

[ElNono]

Ok. I didn't know where to post this and didnt want to start a thread. Plus, I haven't seen this addressed any where on here. If I'm mistaken, then please forgive me. With all this mess; market, credit ratings, etc, why is gas going down? It was at least a quarter more on Friday than it is today.

Oil futures/contracts going down. There's speculation of a double-dip recession and the economy contracting further.

[coyotes_geek]

down triple digits again. apparantely the market isn't too happy with what the fed said today.

Scratch that. Apparantely the market loves it.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

So we could be further crippled if say an oil field was attacked or just blew up for no reason. That's great.

[ElNono]

So we could be further crippled if say an oil field was attacked or just blew up for no reason. That's great.

If you see something, say something...

[ElNono]

dp

[Wild Cobra]

Oh really? Thats why a certain someone I know losing upwards of 250k yesterday is no big deal. He's just a panicky fucktard?

After losing somewhere near $100k the day before.
The stock market isn't for the short term investor unless they know how to be a day trader. If your friend could not afford to lose it, then he shouldn't have had it there.

I'm not even keeping track of my current losses. I'm just smiling that every payday, I'll have hundreds of dollars of purchases buying even more shares as they drop farther in price. I'll be one happy camper when the prices recover.

[Wild Cobra]

down triple digits again. apparantely the market isn't too happy with what the fed said today.
I think it's more than that. With the loss of the uptick rule, I think short sellers are driving it down farther than would be natural.

If I got their memo, I would have traded some of my stocks for securities. Now that the drop started, I'll just leave them alone. Not good to follow the leader with stocks.

[ElNono]

Dude, the market rallied to close.

[Venti Quattro]

Cycles are normal.

Why is everyone panicking?


Many companies are reporting record earnings. This is just typical Wall Street panic. It doesn't bother me though. I may actually starting buying tomorrow.


I lost about 5000 today. No big whoop. It's all the panicky fucktards that make it worse.


Yep, as the idiots buy high and sell low, the wealthy buy low and sell high. Then the idiots complain about how unfair it it.


This. When it rains on wallstreet it pours because of idiots who overreact to every tiny piece of news that has nothing to do with the companies they're investing in.


The stock market isn't for the short term investor unless they know how to be a day trader. If your friend could not afford to lose it, then he shouldn't have had it there.

I'm not even keeping track of my current losses. I'm just smiling that every payday, I'll have hundreds of dollars of purchases buying even more shares as they drop farther in price. I'll be one happy camper when the prices recover.


I think it's more than that. With the loss of the uptick rule, I think short sellers are driving it down farther than would be natural.

If I got their memo, I would have traded some of my stocks for securities. Now that the drop started, I'll just leave them alone. Not good to follow the leader with stocks.

:tu Wild Cobra

:tu DMX7

:tu DarrinS

:tu DoK

And it's true, companies are racking in record earnings. For example, JP Morgan Chase & Co shouldn't be even be racking 5 bn per quarter but they have in two successive quarters now -- 5.5 bn in both quarters to be exact. The year is just halfway but they have already amassed 11 bn. A good portion of it is because of their huge savings with bad loans & bad credit appropriations, but still, most of their businesses have been doing really well. The street estimates the trajectory of NYSE:JPM at 20-22 bn for the fiscal year. I would be so surprised if they don't break the 20 bn barrier. Wells Fargo also recorded the highest earnings in history, and so is Apple racking record sales & profits.

It's just kind of annoying that stock prices are crashing due to slightly irrelevant pieces of information. Of course it will have SOME effects, but losing 10% of your market cap just because of that piece of news that is totally irrelevant to the way you do business is ridiculous. As shitty as Wall Street the movie was, at least they got it right when it said in the movie that "it's all about speculation".

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol those who panicked and sold, only to see it reb...fck that shit

[Spurminator]

Wheeeeeee!!!!

[cheguevara]

:lmao nice rebound

400+ points down in 1st hour

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao

[NASpurs]

French banks is like rubber necking at an accident right now.


Shares in French bank Societe Generale (SOGN.PA (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=SOGN.PA)) fell more than 21 percent, hitting a 2-1/2-year low and sharply underperforming the European banking sector.
SocGen was not immediately available for comment.


Other French banks also fell sharply, with BNP Paribas (BNPP.PA (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=BNPP.PA)) down more than 13 percent and Credit Agricole (CAGR.PA (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=CAGR.PA)) off more than 14 percent.

[MannyIsGod]

tell that to the poor bastards that were due to retire in 2008,2009,2010

If you were set to retire in a couple of years and you had a large amount of your money in the stock market then you made a huge huge huge mistake.

[MannyIsGod]

Ok. I didn't know where to post this and didnt want to start a thread. Plus, I haven't seen this addressed any where on here. If I'm mistaken, then please forgive me. With all this mess; market, credit ratings, etc, why is gas going down? It was at least a quarter more on Friday than it is today.

When the economy contracts people drive less and use less energy in general as they try to save money. Companies don't have to ship as much and energy use across the board goes down. Because demand is driven down the cost comes down as well. The futures are reacting to the impression that the economy is likely to slow down and the price will therefor drop.

As we at risk for the economy being hurt if there is some kind of large disaster that hurts our energy supply? Of course. But that isn't something unique to the current economic climate. Whether the economy is doing well or not we are always at risk to rising energy costs on a disaster that chokes off supply.

[coyotes_geek]

Down another 500 today.

[Winehole23]

Panicky fucktards, spoiling it for the rest of us.

[Winehole23]

:rolleyes

[coyotes_geek]

Pretty much, but I'm on the silver-lining "buying opportunity" bandwagon.

[TeyshaBlue]

I'm on the "I'll retire 10 fucking years after I'm dead" bandwagon.

[hater]

it's funny, ppl here act like they know the stock market. Why the hell are you here posting then and not having lunch with Warren Buffet? :lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

Down another 500 today.

Yesterday was two different markets based on 2 different things. #1 was the Fed confirming they think the economy is gonna suck for at least two more years and making the unprecedented statement they were going to continue to hold down rates for 2 years. Fed says nothing about QE3. Market goes to shit. #2 Goldman Sachs then sends a newsletter to it's clients while the market is dropping that says they think the Fed is gonna do QE3. People assume GS has inside info and market immediately skyrockets. After market closed people figured out GS was just blowing smoke out its ass and doesn't have inside info. Market opens today and continues to go to shit.

[hater]

don't forget someone flushed the toilet where Europe was floating

[coyotes_geek]

it's funny, ppl here act like they know the stock market. Why the hell are you here posting then and not having lunch with Warren Buffet? :lmao

People on the internet talking about things they're not experts on? Say it isn't so! :madrun

[Agloco]

The house of cards is falling.

[CosmicCowboy]

Meh, there will be a bottom. The world is not about to end.

[boutons_deux]

The world won't end for you.

but a comfortable, sustainable, pleasant life and retirement is now falling out of reach of millions of Americans, mostly through no fault of their own.

The greedy, predatory UCA has figured out they don't need Human-American employees, they don't need Human-American consumers. All the cheap employees AND consumer growth are in Asia.

That's the ugly, repulsive face of unregulated capitalism. It doesn't GAF about Human-Americans or America, or any country, only GAF about money.

[Wild Cobra]

What's all the panic? The markets are down what, about 10%?

[RandomGuy]

warren buffet's investment strategies are actually a thing of the past, his investment strategies wouldn't work anymore bc witht he amount of huge firms out there, it's impossible to identify any mispriced securities, the market is too efficient. the key to investing now days is holding on to it for the long run, and predicting future growth. my professor for investments is a phd, smart indian dude, and he will striaght up tell you that no individual investor can really beat the market consistently when it comes to stocks. there are other ways to invest now days that are a lot more safe and what he does is actually sells options. most of the best investors today only play with a little bit of money in the stock market for fun, they diversify the bulk of their money into mostly other things.

I would generally agree. It is hard to leverage information asymetry the way Buffett did when he was building his company. It doesn't work well after you get to the size that Berkshire has gotten to, either.

Unless of course your last name is Rajaratnam, then you can just trade off your contacts, until you get caught.

[ElNono]

What's all the panic? The markets are down what, about 10%?

What panic?

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol france latest domino affect, hope they tank...

[hater]

down 400+ again. tomorrow not looking good.

[SnakeBoy]

And I bought a 1000 shares of BoA Monday :depressed

[ElNono]

I was gonna bump this earlier, but was lazy... SB: you should've stayed with the gold, tbh

[SnakeBoy]

SB: you should've stayed with the gold, tbh

Oh I'm still with gold. Just decided to take a gamble on BoA. It'll pay off eventually...uh I think.

[coyotes_geek]

I keep having the temptation to take a gamble on BofA, but haven't given in yet.

[SnakeBoy]

I keep having the temptation to take a gamble on BofA, but haven't given in yet.

Well The Donald is doing it too and he's never wrong.

[coyotes_geek]

Hard to argue against a rich guy who isn't afraid to cough up his birth certificate.

[ElNono]

or a rich guy with a wig

[coyotes_geek]

and a smokin' hot daughter.

[Wild Cobra]

down 400+ again. tomorrow not looking good.
Yep, and my next 401k purchase will buy even more shares than the last time.

[Wild Cobra]

I was gonna bump this earlier, but was lazy... SB: you should've stayed with the gold, tbh
There will be a lot of angry people when the gold bubble bursts.

[Wild Cobra]

Oh I'm still with gold. Just decided to take a gamble on BoA. It'll pay off eventually...uh I think.
Besides, if you get too much gold, might not be able to jump ship fast enough when it's time. I hear people saying it is still going to substantially rise, but... what if they are wrong?

Good not to put all your eggs in one basket.

[ElNono]

There will be a lot of angry people when the gold bubble bursts.

It isn't a bubble. It will come down when demand comes down, at which point things should be better in the market/economy and you should be able to move there.

[Wild Cobra]

In the 70's, gold rose to above $800/oz. from below $50, just to fall to almost half it's peak in a very short time. It regained a value just over $700 in 1980 just to fall again to about $300. It averaged about $400 until 1996 and slowly dropped again to under $300. In 2000, it started a nominal rise through 2004, then started taking off like it did in the 70's.

It will crash at some point. Just no telling when.

[ElNono]

In the 70's, gold rose to above $800/oz. from below $50, just to fall to almost half it's peak in a very short time. It regained a value just over $700 in 1980 just to fall again to about $300. It averaged about $400 until 1996 and slowly dropped again to under $300. In 2000, it started a nominal rise through 2004, then started taking off like it did in the 70's.

It will crash at some point. Just no telling when.

What's your point?

There's two things affecting gold prices: demand/supply and currency value.
The economy being shit/good affects the first factor, the currency printing press (aka inflation) affects the other.

So, yeah, when the economy recovers and/or the dollar appreciates, then gold will go down. Not crash, but progressively lose some of it's value.

It's completely different from a bubble.

[Wild Cobra]

So, yeah, when the economy recovers and/or the dollar appreciates, then gold will go down. Not crash, but lose some of it's value.

It's completely different from a bubble.
Well, we disagree. The moment that other large financial assets become more appealing for the future, large owners of gold will move it as fast as they can. This always has a dramatic effect on the market pulled from.

[ElNono]

Well, we disagree. The moment that other large financial assets become more appealing for the future, large owners of gold will move it as fast as they can. This always has a dramatic effect on the market pulled from.

Sure, and in order for that to happen certain economic indicators need to be a certain way (interest rates, etc). The gains due to inflation though are not going to come down. I'm not going to give you a lesson in economics, you can do the research yourself.

Point is, there's nothing 'artificial' with gold pricing that would put in under the definition of a 'bubble'.

[Wild Cobra]

Point is, there's nothing 'artificial' with gold pricing that would put in under the definition of a 'bubble'.
That depends.

How has it's value changed compared to other precious metals?

I haven't looked, but that would be an indicator to your statement.

[ElNono]

That depends.
How has it's value changed compared to other precious metals?
I haven't looked, but that would be an indicator to your statement.

The inflation rate part has changed consistently. The demand/supply part obviously changes differently for each individually. It's not that complicated, and there's nothing artificial about it.

[Wild Cobra]

The inflation rate part has changed consistently. The demand/supply part obviously changes differently for each individually. It's not that complicated, and there's nothing artificial about it.
I would think the commercialized aspect prodding people to buy gold makes it artificial. People are caught up in the hype, driving prices higher than natural. Just like the house flipping hype.

Just my opinion. Not going to waste time diving into more facts about it since I don't invest in gold.

[ElNono]

Marketing for gold is a year-round occurrence at any given time. It's up to the investor to know when to put your money in it and when to take it away. Not much different than any other investment, tbh.

[Venti Quattro]

And I bought a 1000 shares of BoA Monday :depressed

BAC sucks, at least buy WFC or JPM. :lol

[SnakeBoy]

There will be a lot of angry people when the gold bubble bursts.

I have to agree with El Nono, the eventual decline in gold value won't be a sudden crash. The decline in gold value will be tied to economic recovery and that's not going to be a rapid process. Besides I just do gold stock so unloading it is just a click of the button away. Even the most conservative estimates now have gold reaching $2500 so I think I'm quite safe. Now there probably will be plenty of people (Beck listeners maybe) who have bought physical gold that will lose money because they've bought into the "gold is a currency and never loses it's value" sales pitch. They'll wait too long and then when they finally do try to sell they are going to be pissed to find that they can only get 85% spot price...if they're lucky.

[ElNono]

I have to agree with El Nono, the eventual decline in gold value won't be a sudden crash. The decline in gold value will be tied to economic recovery and that's not going to be a rapid process. Besides I just do gold stock so unloading it is just a click of the button away. Even the most conservative estimates now have gold reaching $2500 so I think I'm quite safe. Now there probably will be plenty of people (Beck listeners maybe) who have bought physical gold that will lose money because they've bought into the "gold is a currency and never loses it's value" sales pitch. They'll wait too long and then when they finally do try to sell they are going to be pissed to find that they can only get 85% spot price...if they're lucky.

Even in that case, it depends on what your objective is. If you're just trying to offset inflation, you'll most likely still be ahead even at 75% spot price.
If you're trying to actually make money off it, then sure, you have to be more careful when to switch.

[ElNono]

The problem with gold stock vs physical gold is that it's much easier to actually have an actual bubble with the stock than it is to have a bubble with physical gold. That 'trading speed/convenience' cuts both ways. It's just a matter of knowing what the risks are, etc.

[SnakeBoy]

True but the risks depend on the type of gold stock. I just stick with the physical indexed ETF's like SPDR GoldShares. Although some think these funds are driving the explosion in gold price

http://etfdailynews.com/2010/06/22/is-the-spdr-gold-etf-gld-about-to-cause-a-gold-price-explosion/


My investment strategy with any stocks is don't get greedy, take the money and run and don't look back. So my gold fever will break long before everyone elses.

[coyotes_geek]

BAC sucks, at least buy WFC or JPM. :lol

WFC & JPM are certainly more fundamentally sound. But, if you're looking to make a trader's play BAC has some attractiveness to it. They're more volatile and that volatility provides opportunity for those who can figure out when to jump on and off that roller coaster.

That being said, BAC is down another 3% in pre-market today, so caveat emptor. :)

[cheguevara]

down 80 points in 7 minutes :lol

[coyotes_geek]

down 80 points in 7 minutes :lol

One of the better starts of the last two weeks. :)

[ElNono]

True but the risks depend on the type of gold stock. I just stick with the physical indexed ETF's like SPDR GoldShares. Although some think these funds are driving the explosion in gold price

http://etfdailynews.com/2010/06/22/is-the-spdr-gold-etf-gld-about-to-cause-a-gold-price-explosion/


My investment strategy with any stocks is don't get greedy, take the money and run and don't look back. So my gold fever will break long before everyone elses.

That's good. Gold futures is another thing to stay away from.

[Nbadan]

BOA likes Rick Perry

40K7p3kZO9c

corrupt fucks...

[Wild Cobra]

BOA likes Rick Perry

40K7p3kZO9c

corrupt fucks...
That's right Propaganda Dan...

Move the slider of this video (http://www.c-span.org/flvPop.aspx?src=archive/c12/c12_081711_perry.flv) to 46:09. The guy approaches. Perry flat out ignores him and walks on.

Maybe it was staged by opponents, just to be used!

[Venti Quattro]

WFC & JPM are certainly more fundamentally sound. But, if you're looking to make a trader's play BAC has some attractiveness to it. They're more volatile and that volatility provides opportunity for those who can figure out when to jump on and off that roller coaster.

That being said, BAC is down another 3% in pre-market today, so caveat emptor. :)

lol down 8% today

[DMC]

Someone here said buy gold some time ago....


tick tick tick

[SnakeBoy]

lol down 8% today

Bought another 1000 shares today. Man I hope this works out.

[Venti Quattro]

Bought another 1000 shares today. Man I hope this works out.

Get out of that, scrah. You are going to lose a lot of money. BAC has mightily sucked since they acquired ML, and at least that's just off the top of my head. Ya they're down by higher percentage points because BAC's stock valuation is low compared to JPM, WFC and C. And I mean very low. Their market cap is half of what it was a couple of months ago.

Did you see their 2Q earning release? :lol

[ElNono]

BOA is only getting what they deserve. They racked up the percentage rate on their credit cards to insane rates right before the new credit card regulations came up, and I'm not surprised they're getting it in the ass. I had a 14% APR on a card from them, and it shoot up to 28% right before the new regulations. No missed payments, nothing.
Luckily I had little debt on it, paid it off and sent them packing. Fucking scammers.

[SnakeBoy]

Get out of that, scrah. You are going to lose a lot of money. BAC has mightily sucked since they acquired ML, and at least that's just off the top of my head. Ya they're down by higher percentage points because BAC's stock valuation is low compared to JPM, WFC and C. And I mean very low. Their market cap is half of what it was a couple of months ago.

Did you see their 2Q earning release? :lol

I view my etrade account as gambling money ( i.e. nothing I can't afford to lose) so I can take the risk. Besides I could lose everything I have put on BofA and still be up on the original $ I put into the account. I'm betting time and Uncle Ben are on my side with BofA...we'll see. I wouldn't recommend anyone put their retirement $ on BofA.


BOA is only getting what they deserve. They racked up the percentage rate on their credit cards to insane rates right before the new credit card regulations came up, and I'm not surprised they're getting it in the ass. I had a 14% APR on a card from them, and it shoot up to 28% right before the new regulations. No missed payments, nothing.
Luckily I had little debt on it, paid it off and sent them packing. Fucking scammers.

They did the same to me. I had a card with a $50k limit that I only used for some autobill payments. Paid it off each month. They cut my credit limit in half and jacked the interest rate. Then my wife wanted to make a large purchase and I thought I would see if they would do a low interest loan secured with cash since all my accounts were with them. When I went to talk to them they just said we're not doing loans period. So I cancelled the cc and closed all my accounts with them. This was in '09 or early '10.

Edit - so I moved my business to Broadway Bank. Asked them about the loan and they said no problem and gave me the loan (unsecured) at just under 1 over prime.

[Venti Quattro]

:lmao BAC

:lmao down when all the stocks are going up

[coyotes_geek]

So Steve Jobs resigned. With the market being as reactionary as it's been lately, I was expecting a little more panic selling of AAPL today.

[coyotes_geek]

Bought another 1000 shares today. Man I hope this works out.

Warren Buffett to your rescue..............

[CosmicCowboy]

So Steve Jobs resigned. With the market being as reactionary as it's been lately, I was expecting a little more panic selling of AAPL today.

I think that's already been priced on on the anticipation he would.

[RandomGuy]

True but the risks depend on the type of gold stock. I just stick with the physical indexed ETF's like SPDR GoldShares. Although some think these funds are driving the explosion in gold price

http://etfdailynews.com/2010/06/22/is-the-spdr-gold-etf-gld-about-to-cause-a-gold-price-explosion/


My investment strategy with any stocks is don't get greedy, take the money and run and don't look back. So my gold fever will break long before everyone elses.

"I can time the market better than anyone else"

Famous last words.

Gold falls $200 from Tuesday's record high (http://news.yahoo.com/gold-loses-more-shine-cme-margin-hike-062941582.html)

Odds are this is just some "froth" blowing off. I don't see it really falling to its historical price just yet.

Looks like the recent run up was in response to a potential QE3 by the Fed that looks like it didn't/won't materialize.

Over the longer run, I do see it falling a good chunk though. Best guess is within about 5 years.

Hopefully you will get your money out in time. Don't wait too long.

[CosmicCowboy]

Warren Buffett to your rescue..............



The news sent Bank of America [BAC 8.0218 1.0318 (+14.76%) ] shares sharply higher, and also pushed up U.S. stocks.

Berkshire Hathaway [BRK.A 106285.00 -65.00 (-0.06%) ] said Bank of America would sell it 50,000 preferred shares at $100,000 a piece. The preferred stock has a dividend of 6 percent and is redeemable at a 5 percent premium.

Hmmmm. I don't see how that helps the average stockholder. Looks like Berkshire was looking for a place to grab a 6% guaranteed return (damn hard to do in this market) with senior security (preferred shares) when and if the shit hits the fan.

I'd get the fuck out of BOA stock on the jump if I were you. They are still really vulnerable.

[RandomGuy]

Get out of that, scrah. You are going to lose a lot of money. BAC has mightily sucked since they acquired ML, and at least that's just off the top of my head. Ya they're down by higher percentage points because BAC's stock valuation is low compared to JPM, WFC and C. And I mean very low. Their market cap is half of what it was a couple of months ago.

Did you see their 2Q earning release? :lol

BAC is up 17% since the open today, as of now.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=BAC


I still think they have a lot of losses sitting around on their books that they aren't going to want to own up to.

[coyotes_geek]

I think that's already been priced on on the anticipation he would.

That certainly appears to be the case. I was just expecting a bigger hit given the perception that Steve Jobs IS Apple. I guess the people fostering that perception don't own the stock.


Hmmmm. I don't see how that helps the average stockholder. Looks like Berkshire was looking for a place to grab a 6% guaranteed return (damn hard to do in this market) with senior security (preferred shares) when and if the shit hits the fan.

I'd get the fuck out of BOA stock on the jump if I were you. They are still really vulnerable.

I think it helps the average stockholder in terms of stability for the common stock, but you're right that the interest and premiums for Buffett's shares will diminish returns for the common stock.

[RandomGuy]

Warren Buffett to your rescue..............

No shit. Buffet even looks at a stock it jumps.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bank-of-america-rallies-on-buffett-investment-2011-08-25?siteid=yhoof


NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Warren Buffett on Thursday tossed a $5-billion lifeline to beleaguered Bank of America Corp. that sent the stock charging higher and, of course, padded his own wallet in the process.

Following the announcement, shares of Bank of America /quotes/zigman/190927/quotes/nls/bac BAC +13.66% scored solid gains for their second straight day — a reversal following weeks of steep losses in the wake of the European sovereign debt crisis and rising jitters about a double-dip recession.

Shares of Bank of America rose 17.7% but are still down almost 40% since the beginning of the year. Investors have fled the stock amid concerns that the bank might need to raise capital as it works to heal itself from the bruising mortgage-loan debacle.

He's got him some preferred stock.

Not exactly something I would want to rush out and buy common stock for.

Keep in mind that if BOA goes tits up, he is going to get his money before any of the hoi polloi with common stock, although this does bode well for BOA's ability to raise capital. Getting some buy-in by Buffet is never a bad thing in that regard. Might not change the underlying fundamentals, but it sure as hell changes the perception. Ironically changing the perception might end up changing the underlying fundamentals, if the discounted cash makes a difference.

[Wild Cobra]

"I can time the market better than anyone else"

Famous last words.

Gold falls $200 from Tuesday's record high (http://news.yahoo.com/gold-loses-more-shine-cme-margin-hike-062941582.html)

One expert I heard speaking on the topic said gold would fall fast and hard when stocks were at optimum buying points.

Could this be his prediction starting to come true I wonder?

How about tomorrow?

[Venti Quattro]

BAC is up 17% since the open today, as of now.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=BAC

I still think they have a lot of losses sitting around on their books that they aren't going to want to own up to.
8 BN loss on a plateau where financial firms are starting to recover? Not a good sign of a healthy company. And now there are rumors of a merger with JPM, although they denied it already.

www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-24/bank-of-america-memo-says-jpmorgan-merger-talk-among-blogs-is-baseless-.html

[RandomGuy]

One expert I heard speaking on the topic said gold would fall fast and hard when stocks were at optimum buying points.

Could this be his prediction starting to come true I wonder?

How about tomorrow?

Gold is supposed to be the ultimate hedge against INflation, but if we face a prolonged period of no inflation or even DEflation, I wonder.

I believe it represents a flight to safety, as a lot of money is sitting around looking for something to do.

If that something to do is invest in stocks, we will see.

Gold was a pure "fear" play then got to a "greed" play when people saw it skyrocket up. That is not a recipe for sustained prices IMO, either.

[RandomGuy]

One expert I heard speaking on the topic said gold would fall fast and hard when stocks were at optimum buying points.

Could this be his prediction starting to come true I wonder?

How about tomorrow?

There are a LOT of lawyers representing investors rooting around for someone on whom to pin losses for the mortgage meltdown.

I have been doing some digging around in the title insurance end of it, and will probably get to see some of the legal wrangling first hand, as an interested observer.

[ElNono]

Gold will eventually come down when the economy spruces up a bit and the market recovers. The question you have to ask is if it offset the inflation during that time.

It would have to come all the way down to $1,400 to match February's price.

[DMC]

"I can time the market better than anyone else"

Famous last words.

Gold falls $200 from Tuesday's record high (http://news.yahoo.com/gold-loses-more-shine-cme-margin-hike-062941582.html)

Odds are this is just some "froth" blowing off. I don't see it really falling to its historical price just yet.

Looks like the recent run up was in response to a potential QE3 by the Fed that looks like it didn't/won't materialize.

Over the longer run, I do see it falling a good chunk though. Best guess is within about 5 years.

Hopefully you will get your money out in time. Don't wait too long.

Sold at 1900.00

lol

[hater]

uhoh back to the 10,000s today I'm afraid

[boutons_deux]

Madoff: Insider trading rife on Wall Street

"It is unfortunate, to say the least, that the financial services industry is so corrupt and stacked against the typical investor,"

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183569&page=4

===

If anybody knows how criminally corrupt the financial sector is, it's an corrupt criminal insider like Madoff.

[ElNono]

Insider trading rife on Wall Street

No surprises there

[SnakeBoy]

:lmao BAC

:lmao down when all the stocks are going up

:lol

[DMX7]

One expert I heard speaking on the topic said gold would fall fast and hard when stocks were at optimum buying points.


That's not a "prediction", that's just common sense.

[angrydude]

up down up down. it's getting to the point where you can almost predict it with certainty

HFTs bidding up the prices when no humans are trading. Then the humans come in and sell.

The stock market is broken.

[Venti Quattro]

One thing about AAPL is that Steve Jobs left it self-sustaning. They just have to go to that next product cycle, and they would be okay.

Still, Tim Cook needs to have that charisma that Jobs had -- or else he's toast like Steve Ballmer.

[boutons_deux]

"The stock market is broken."

.... by the financial sector so the financial sector could profit from the brokeness.

[Venti Quattro]

Crap, the stock market plummeted again, albeit just slightly.

[ManuBalboa]

Invest long term...make profit. It works.

[SnakeBoy]

Invest long term...make profit. It works.

Buy on the lows, sell on the highs. It's working for me. I expect we will be on this rollercoaster ride for quite awhile.

[Venti Quattro]

LOL financial stocks

LOL lawsuits

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Invest long term...make profit.



Buy on the lows, sell on the highs.
Wow guys thanks for the great advice! I'm surprised neither of you work for Goldman Sachs with such awesome investing knowledge!

[SnakeBoy]

Wow guys thanks for the great advice! I'm surprised neither of you work for Goldman Sachs with such awesome investing knowledge!

MB says play long, I say play short. Go ask all the experts you want and those are the 2 opinions you'll get. I've turned $20k into $31k since the Aug crash, maybe not good enough for Goldman Sachs but I'm happy.

Tbh, I'll be completely on the sidelines by the end of the week (probably tomorrow before Obama's speech). I'm guessing there's a significant Sept. crash around the corner, then I'll get back in if it occurs.

[ChumpDumper]

Wow guys thanks for the great advice! I'm surprised neither of you work for Goldman Sachs with such awesome investing knowledge!That's about all GS does except for falling for their own financial ripoff schemes.

[RandomGuy]

[Gold] Sold at 1900.00

lol

Yup. Gold and the swiss franc.

The Swiss central bank did a massive (for them) QE, and deflated their currency.

If anyone else follows, gold will go up farther, as people looking for a safe currency conclude there is no such thing.

Gold does not have a central bank that can do a QE and print money.

I still think gold is due for a pretty substantial fall, but it is looking like that is further and further in the future.

[Venti Quattro]

I think AUMs of investment management companies will go down significantly this quarter. Particularly affected will be those firms who heavily invest in the US. But maybe not, not if they could help it with fixed income and commodities.

[CosmicCowboy]

check out this crazy 5 day chart...

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^DJI+Interactive#chart3:symbol=^dji;rang e=5d;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on; ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

[Venti Quattro]

:lol RIMM
:lol NFLX

[CosmicCowboy]

I wouldn't count netflix out yet. They are also quietly moving into their own content production which long term should dramatically boost profits if they come up with some hits. They would control and profit from the process from start to finish.

[admiralsnackbar]

I wouldn't count netflix out yet. They are also quietly moving into their own content production which long term should dramatically boost profits if they come up with some hits. They would control and profit from the process from start to finish.

Not all that sure their venturing into production sways me that they'll fare better or worse as a consequence. I have no doubt they are still a great stock to own, though.

(Doesn't hurt that they have precious little by way of credible competition, I suppose.... Blockbuster has to have one of the most inept, complacent corporate cultures in business judging by their past 10-15 years.)

[MB20]

The sky is falling again today.

:sleep

[boutons_deux]

I'm sure there were plenty of bets on the fall that made millions.

[admiralsnackbar]

I'm sure there were plenty of bets on the fall that made millions.
That's pretty much how stock exchanges work, for better or worse.

[cheguevara]

could be under 10,000 by end of the week

[Viva Las Espuelas]

"headwinds"

[Drachen]

Not all that sure their venturing into production sways me that they'll fare better or worse as a consequence. I have no doubt they are still a great stock to own, though.

(Doesn't hurt that they have precious little by way of credible competition, I suppose.... Blockbuster has to have one of the most inept, complacent corporate cultures in business judging by their past 10-15 years.)

biggest competition would be amazon.

[SnakeBoy]

Tbh, I'll be completely on the sidelines by the end of the week (probably tomorrow before Obama's speech). I'm guessing there's a significant Sept. crash around the corner, then I'll get back in if it occurs.

:eyebrows

[Wild Cobra]

The stock market just roared just about an hour or so ago. It's still in the steep upward trend. What happened?
Maybe investors are believing Obama will lose, and want to get in the stork market before it shoots up really high?

Buy low, sell high... Set the trend to win, follow the trend to lose.

[coyotes_geek]

Market seems to feel better about things now that the Greece deal is done.

Well, this round of the Greece deal.......

[Drachen]

Maybe investors are believing Obama will lose, and want to get in the stork market before it shoots up really high?

Buy low, sell high... Set the trend to win, follow the trend to lose.

Once again, WC doesn't do any research and is wrong.


February retail numbers were released at about the same time that the federal reserve chairman gave his "testimony" that things were looking substantially better on the jobs front, but that the Federal reserve was going to hold tight on current monetary policy measures. In the financial sector specifically JP Morgan Chase announced that they had passed the stress tests and increased dividends by 20% at the same time, investors see this as a sign of strength in the financial sector at large.

Edit: It amazes me when people sitting at the access portal to all of the worlds information continue to remain willfully ignorant.

[ElNono]

Once again, WC doesn't do any research and is wrong.


February retail numbers were released at about the same time that the federal reserve chairman gave his "testimony" that things were looking substantially better on the jobs front, but that the Federal reserve was going to hold tight on current monetary policy measures. In the financial sector specifically JP Morgan Chase announced that they had passed the stress tests and increased dividends by 20% at the same time, investors see this as a sign of strength in the financial sector at large.

Edit: It amazes me when people sitting at the access portal to all of the worlds information continue to remain willfully ignorant.

No. It's people guessing what will happen 8 months from now.

[Drachen]

No. It's people guessing what will happen 8 months from now.

Cogent argument. Forgive me. I slink away having been vanquished.

[Drachen]

Which is the stronger bank, Wells or JPM Chase? Citi and BofA are shot to shit so they're out of the discussion.

I would do more research before giving you a definitive answer, but a gut response based on all of the things that I have read about the two over the last 2 years would be JPM. Like I said, verify that, but you have an answer.

[clambake]

did anyone jump on the stock tip i gave this forum? cmi?

[clambake]

how about you winehole? did you pull the trigger on it?

[coyotes_geek]

Which is the stronger bank, Wells or JPM Chase? Citi and BofA are shot to shit so they're out of the discussion.

Between those two I'd say JPM, but I'm still bearish on the whole financial sector.

[coyotes_geek]

Pretty good day for tech too. AAPL & IBM at new all-time highs.

[Wild Cobra]

Once again, WC doesn't do any research and is wrong.

Hey, I just took the chance to make a comment against the shithead. Sorry I didn't use Blue.

[TeyshaBlue]

Stork market? smh

[Drachen]

Hey, I just took the chance to make a comment against the shithead. Sorry I didn't use Blue.

WC makes some idiotic statement that he truely believes

WC is called out on the stupidity of the statement

WC gets angry and says he was joking

[spursncowboys]

I highly doubt you have not made as equal of idiotic statements as any other poster besides chump. But group speak here is in your favor so you probably don't get called out on it too often. This isn't a put down. Just with the idiotic notion in this forum that if you don't agree with an issue, you are unintelligent or below others.

[spursncowboys]

federal credit union bra

[clambake]

I highly doubt you have not made as equal of idiotic statements as any other poster besides chump. But group speak here is in your favor so you probably don't get called out on it too often. This isn't a put down. Just with the idiotic notion in this forum that if you don't agree with an issue, you are unintelligent or below others.

wc, somebody has a crush on you!

[Drachen]

I highly doubt you have not made as equal of idiotic statements as any other poster besides chump. But group speak here is in your favor so you probably don't get called out on it too often. This isn't a put down. Just with the idiotic notion in this forum that if you don't agree with an issue, you are unintelligent or below others.

I won't disagree with you SnC, I am in no way above making mistakes. However, I do my best to remain concious of this fact and remain vigilant against it. If you go back through my posts, not only will you see me back down from obviously wrong points (generally with some kind of "mea culpa" post), but you will likely find some where I came back later and said that I was obviously wrong (without prompting from other members). I will even write an entire post then backspace the whole thing and leave a thread because what I have to add is generally not valuable.


Point is, if it happens, and I am aware of it (through my own assessment or that of others), I try to correct it ASAP. For WC, though, it isn't a one-off thing, it is his MO. He doesn't post something that people disagree with and that is why they think he is stupid, he posts stupid things regularly and that is why people feel this way about him. FWIW, I feel the same way about CD as you do. The next time he adds something valuable to a conversation will be the first time in years (it seems). I assume he is fine with that and is satisfied just being antagonistic because he has been called out on it repeatedly (including by yours truely) and doesn't seem to have a problem.

[coyotes_geek]

AAPL is on course to reach 600 bn this year

They'll probably make that before the next earnings date.

[Drachen]

I give it until June. They're not going to make it to 600 with a month to spare.

When does the DJIA change components? I figure by now that Apple is going to be there.

The Dow changes components when they feel like it, but as I was looking for a more concrete answer for you, I found this interesting tidbit (a bit dated, but still interesting).

http://www.peridotcapitalist.com/2005/02/examining-changes-to-dow-30-components.html

[coyotes_geek]

I give it until June. They're not going to make it to 600 with a month to spare.

When does the DJIA change components? I figure by now that Apple is going to be there.

A week or two ago I'd have agreed with you. But $600B mkt cap = $643 a share and as I write this they're at $582. Another 10% run up from here gets them there and I certainly think that's doable.

[Drachen]

Interesting methodology...but a lot of experts say that the DJIA is not the best index and that the S&P 500 is better.

Is it good to go index investing now?

I want to say that this year will probably have a lot of volatility without a clear direction due to Europe, Iran, Election..... You can most certainly make money off of volatility (options investing for example), but I say all of this as an amateur so be sure to do your own research.

[coyotes_geek]

Interesting methodology...but a lot of experts say that the DJIA is not the best index and that the S&P 500 is better.

Is it good to go index investing now?

Definitely agree that the S&P 500 is a better index than the Dow.

And IMO it's always a good time to index invest. S&P 500 index funds still make up the largest portions of my retirement accounts.

[Drachen]

Definitely agree that the S&P 500 is a better index than the Dow.

And IMO it's always a good time to index invest. S&P 500 index funds still make up the largest portions of my retirement accounts.

I guess I should have clarified time horizon, yes I agree with you. Also, sp500 is better simply because it has almost all of the non-systemic risk diversified out based solely on the number companies represented (as opposed to the 30 in the Dow).

[MannyIsGod]

Maybe investors are believing Obama will lose, and want to get in the stork market before it shoots up really high?

Buy low, sell high... Set the trend to win, follow the trend to lose.

:lol

ANd people don't think WC is a troll?

[coyotes_geek]

Even by Apple standards, the stock has just been going nuts for about 3 months now.

[Wild Cobra]

:lol

ANd people don't think WC is a troll?

I have my moments.

[ElNono]

I was reading a bit ago that some investment companies are starting to remove apple numbers to do their analysis on the market...

[spursncowboys]

I won't disagree with you SnC, I am in no way above making mistakes. However, I do my best to remain concious of this fact and remain vigilant against it. If you go back through my posts, not only will you see me back down from obviously wrong points (generally with some kind of "mea culpa" post), but you will likely find some where I came back later and said that I was obviously wrong (without prompting from other members). I will even write an entire post then backspace the whole thing and leave a thread because what I have to add is generally not valuable.


Point is, if it happens, and I am aware of it (through my own assessment or that of others), I try to correct it ASAP. For WC, though, it isn't a one-off thing, it is his MO. He doesn't post something that people disagree with and that is why they think he is stupid, he posts stupid things regularly and that is why people feel this way about him. FWIW, I feel the same way about CD as you do. The next time he adds something valuable to a conversation will be the first time in years (it seems). I assume he is fine with that and is satisfied just being antagonistic because he has been called out on it repeatedly (including by yours truely) and doesn't seem to have a problem.Thanks for responding with an actual take. I sometimes write a post and hit post without reading it. Then when I reread it, it doesn't come across as how I meant it or doesn't express my feeling. There are many times, however, when WC makes good points but gets thrown to the side because he isn't in the in crowd.

[Big Empty]

I have my entire 401K in Citi. Im swinging for the fence hell I aint retiring for 32 more years at least so the only place to go is up. I had taken half of it out (of Citi) and put it in a money market as it shot back up from the 20's thinking ok, they are suppose to breeze past this stress test and buy back stock and even upgrade the dividend its gonna sky rocket back to 50 in no time. I put my trade in 30 minutes till the market closed putting the other half back into it and then an hour later they failed......my luck lol im not discouraged. The fed took into account that Citi was gonna buy back shares and increase the dividend or else the would be at a 5.9 vs a 4.9 (failed by .1). So either way its all good.

[Big Empty]

It gives me more time to load up on shares before it shoots into the 60's. I think itl get there by this time next year if the Euro peeps can get their shit together

[clambake]

Thanks for responding with an actual take. I sometimes write a post and hit post without reading it. Then when I reread it, it doesn't come across as how I meant it or doesn't express my feeling. There are many times, however, when WC makes good points but gets thrown to the side because he isn't in the in crowd.

wimpy soldier boy.

[ElNono]

Citi and BofA ain't going anywhere. If they need a bailout, they'll get a bailout.

[SnakeBoy]

Even by Apple standards, the stock has just been going nuts for about 3 months now.

I was scared of Apple at $400, should have jumped on it for awhile but now I'm not going near it. At some point alot of people are going to lose there ass on apple. I put some money on microsoft awhile back, I think they are going to make a serious run at apple over the next couple of years...assuming they don't drop the ball completely.

[SnakeBoy]

I have my entire 401K in Citi. Im swinging for the fence hell I aint retiring for 32 more years at least so the only place to go is up. I had taken half of it out (of Citi) and put it in a money market as it shot back up from the 20's thinking ok, they are suppose to breeze past this stress test and buy back stock and even upgrade the dividend its gonna sky rocket back to 50 in no time. I put my trade in 30 minutes till the market closed putting the other half back into it and then an hour later they failed......my luck lol im not discouraged. The fed took into account that Citi was gonna buy back shares and increase the dividend or else the would be at a 5.9 vs a 4.9 (failed by .1). So either way its all good.

If your long then I agree Citi is the one to put your money on. WFC & JPM are safer bets short but not nearly the upside of Citi. I've made some decent money playing BAC but just sold it a couple of weeks ago. I can't help but think BAC has another crash coming.

[SnakeBoy]

It all boils down to the Windows 8 imo tbh. If it really pans out for MSFT very well, then they are.

Well that's what I meant by if they don't drop the ball completely. They have a better vision of the future of tablets. I'm sure they'll have some bugs to work out but at a minimum they should cut into the android market pretty easily.

[coyotes_geek]

I was scared of Apple at $400, should have jumped on it for awhile but now I'm not going near it. At some point alot of people are going to lose there ass on apple. I put some money on microsoft awhile back, I think they are going to make a serious run at apple over the next couple of years...assuming they don't drop the ball completely.

Can't say I blame you for not buying in now. I've already got a position and think it's still got more room to run, so I'm not taking any money off the table just quite yet. But at these prices the decision to hold is a hell of a lot easier than the decision to buy. I'm certainly not putting any new money into it right now.

Microsoft is a good bet. I don't own any since I'm pretty tech-heavy with other holdings right now, but I like what they're doing.

[coyotes_geek]

Speaking of Apple...

Apple announces dividend and buyback (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/technology/apple-to-use-cash-for-stock-dividend-and-buyback.html?partner=yahoofinance)

[boutons_deux]

bipartisan enabling, but pushed hard and falsely by Repugs, of IPO fraud and removal of investor protections:

Fiscal Affairs: A Colossal Mistake of Historic Proportions: The "JOBS" Bill


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/simon-johnson/fiscal-affairs-a-colossal_b_1362060.html?view=print&comm_ref=false

[Winehole23]

The Justice Department has warned Apple (http://online.wsj.com/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=AAPL) Inc. AAPL +1.89% (http://online.wsj.com/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=AAPL) and five of the biggest U.S. publishers that it plans to sue them for allegedly colluding to raise the price of electronic books, according to people familiar with the matter.




Apple CEO Tim Cook speaks during Wednesday's iPad product launch.



Several of the parties have held talks to settle the antitrust case and head off a potentially damaging court battle, these people said. If successful, such a settlement could have wide-ranging repercussions for the industry, potentially leading to cheaper e-books for consumers. However, not every publisher is in settlement discussions.





The five publishers facing a potential suit are CBS (http://online.wsj.com/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=cbs) Corp.'s CBS +1.12% (http://online.wsj.com/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=CBS) Simon & Schuster Inc.; Lagardere (http://online.wsj.com/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=mmb) SCA's Hachette Book Group; Pearson (http://online.wsj.com/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=pso) PSO +0.57% (http://online.wsj.com/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=PSO) PLC's Penguin Group (USA); Macmillan, a unit of Verlagsgruppe Georg von Holtzbrinck GmbH; and HarperCollins Publishers Inc., a unit of News Corp. (http://online.wsj.com/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=NWSA), NWSA +1.40% (http://online.wsj.com/public/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=NWSA) which also owns The Wall Street Journal.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203961204577267831767489216.html

[Drachen]

aapl is safely in the $600 mark and the financial stocks' good performance is continuing.

There may be more pain coming, but I just saw that bank of America is trading at 50% book value! It may be worth another look if your time horizon is long. Oh BTW, Wells is at 1.4 times book and jpm is at .96 book.

[Big Empty]

All I know is so far I have a 38% unrealized return for Citi :). Im gonna place a sell stop at about 34 to protect some of the gain cause I can still see 50 in the near future

[Drachen]

Bank of America sunk so much when the dip last year happened so they're still bound to go up.

So WFC is overvalued and JPM just needs a little bit of calibration. .96 isn't a huge difference anyway

Well there is an old adage that claims to but a bank at half book and sell at double book. Firms aren't usually valued on there book value so saying JPM only needs slight calibration isn't exactly right either. Fwiw citi was at .63 or so. Full disclosure I bought some Jan 13 calls for a 17.50 strike when boa was still in the 7s. I don't expect it to get that high that quickly, but I wanted to go on a little ride up and passing the stress tests really helped. I will probably hold until the next earnings date to see if they try to increase their dividend again.

[Winehole23]

“If the Federal Reserve is seeking to drive banks out of the private sector and into the government-lending business, they are doing an excellent job”

[boutons_deux]

Pensions Find Riskier Funds Fail to Pay Off

Consider the contrast between the state retirement fund for Pennsylvania and the one for Georgia.

The $26.3 billion Pennsylvania State Employees' Retirement System has more than 46 percent of its assets in riskier alternatives, including nearly 400 private equity, venture capital and real estate funds.

The system paid about $1.35 billion in management fees in the last five years and reported a five-year annualized return of 3.6 percent. That is below the 8 percent target needed to meet its financing requirements, and it also lags behind a 4.9 percent median return among public pension systems.

In Georgia, the $14.4 billion retirement system, which is prohibited by state law from investing in alternative investments, has earned 5.3 percent annually over the same time frame and paid about $54 million total in fees. The two funds represent the extremes, with Pennsylvania in a group of pension systems with some of the highest percentages of investments in alternatives and Georgia in a group of 10 with some of the lowest, according to groupings of funds identified by the London-based research firm Preqin.

An analysis of the sampling presents an unflattering portrait of the riskier bets: the funds with a third to more than half of their money in private equity, hedge funds and real estate had returns that were more than a percentage point lower than returns of the funds that largely avoided those assets. They also paid nearly four times as much in fees.

While managers for the retirement systems say that a five-year period is not long enough to judge their success, those fees nevertheless add up to hundreds of millions of dollars each year for some of the country's largest pension funds. The $51.4 billion Pennsylvania public schools pension system, for instance, which has 46 percent of its assets in riskier investments, pays more than $500 million a year in fees. It has earned 3.9 percent annually since 2007.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/article;jsessionid=56120F776DCD02B43275AD747E57F19 A.w6?a=933646&f=19

======

Wall st sucking down Human-Americans' retirement funds with fees charged, win or lose.

[Venti Quattro]

JP Morgan and Wells Fargo kicked off earnings season for financial services. They have good quarterly results but their stock prices are down, which means....

P:lolper pr:lolfits

[Venti Quattro]

:lmao JPMorgan Chase
:lmao $2 bn trading loss
:lmao down 7%
:lmao London Whale

[coyotes_geek]

Only 7%? They've bounced back. :) They were down aroud 10% when I checked earlier.

[Venti Quattro]

That trader in London is dead. JPMorgan will be stupid to sack his fat ass. No company is ever going to think of hiring him again. He should just tend to cows in the pasture. :lmao

[coyotes_geek]

How'd you like to make that call? "Um, boss, yeah, I uh...............lost $2 billion dollars."

[RandomGuy]

How'd you like to make that call? "Um, boss, yeah, I uh...............lost $2 billion dollars."

"that's ok, kid, I'm sure our lawyers can crawl up your ass and help you find it"

[RandomGuy]

Remember, this isn't the only multi-billion dollar loss suffered by a large bank:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/BUSINESS/09/15/switzerland.bank.lost/index.html

[TeyshaBlue]

"that's ok, kid, I'm sure our lawyers can crawl up your ass and help you find it"

:lol:lol

[coyotes_geek]

Facebook IPO is Friday. Anyone going to try and touch that one?

Personally, I'm staying on the sidelines but am curious what others think.

[Venti Quattro]

Facebook IPO is Friday. Anyone going to try and touch that one?

Personally, I'm staying on the sidelines but am curious what others think.

Are they going up on NYSE Euronext or NASDAQ OMX?

[coyotes_geek]

nasdaq

[Winehole23]

http://www.minyanville.com/business-news/markets/articles/elliott-wave-s2526p500-spx-spy-elliott/8/13/2012/id/43093#ixzz23RTGKpmt

[ElNono]

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/08/06/chart-of-the-day-hft-edition/

[Winehole23]

saw that. have small investors fled the stock exchanges yet?

if not, it might be advisable to do so. QT is outta hand.

[boutons_deux]

On Wall Street, the Rising Cost of Faster Trades


http://mobile.nytimes.com/h/Ucndih5oE6gOFUJ7vdXy02Y8agrylPtMTKAtA6tgZPIj6z8drL T0U2XihV4isB4TLw9DDugoae6z-CXtlRiHaYOn36qwOGS3sfm_5X2dwO8qS7cVCqf2XDlKbeXlGWJ FMLBkmG-E.cr

For several years, the Wall Street wizards who built a faster, more fragmented stock market justified their creation by pointing to the benefits it yielded for investors in the form of lower trading costs.

But as the speed and complexity of the markets have continued to change at a rapid pace - with trade times now measured in millionths of a second - a growing number of studies and market participants suggest that those benefits to investors have stalled or even started to reverse.

Research from the broker Abel/Noser indicates that the total cost for an investor to get into and out of a single share of stock fell by more than half between 2000 and 2010, to 3.5 cents. Since then, though, the cost has leveled off and then ticked up in the most recent quarter to 3.8 cents, confirming a trend that has also been visible in recent data from Credit Suisse Trading Strategy and from Celent, a consulting firm specializing in financial markets.

The advantages of the nation's increasingly high-speed stock market are under the microscope after a number of recent trading malfunctions underscored the risks and instability that have come with the rapid changes. This month, one of Wall Street's most important trading firms, Knight Capital, lost $440 million in 45 minutes after installing faulty software designed to keep up with an evolving market.

As the battle to introduce more sophisticated technology continues, raising the specter of more problems like Knight's, the diminishing returns flowing back to investors are making even longtime proponents of innovation question whether the competition to make the market faster and more efficient is now doing more harm than good.

"They've reached the point where the competition is measured in microseconds and there are essentially no benefits to the public at that level," said Lawrence E. Harris, the former chief economist at the Securities and Exchange Commission, and now a professor at the University of Southern California.

High-speed trading firms have thrived in the computerized markets and now account for more than half of all stock trading, up from 26 percent in 2006, according to the Tabb Group, a financial markets research firm. But even many of them acknowledge that they are engaged in an arms race that is delivering diminishing returns.


http://mobile.nytimes.com/article?a=960083&f=19

:lol :lol :lol The LIE that high-speed trading is to help reduce costs for retail investors. That investment was for the financial sector to game the system in their own favor and trading on their own accounts.

[Venti Quattro]

:wow Apple

[Trainwreck2100]

dat iphone 5 speculation

[coyotes_geek]

Also rumors of a settlement w/ Samsung.

[TeyshaBlue]

Also rumors of a settlement w/ Samsung.

Not happening.

http://www.slashgear.com/apple-vs-samsung-break-down-as-jury-heads-to-verdict-20243364/

[TDMVPDPOY]

so how much is fb worth now? lmao wankers

[Winehole23]

Maybe the smart money isn’t really all that smart after all.For most of this year, the overwhelming majority of hedge funds have underperformed major stock benchmarks, a development that undermines the idea of mega-investors as market-beaters.



According to a report from investment bank Goldman Sachs [GS 104.67 http://media.cnbc.com/i/CNBC/CNBC_Images/componentbacks/watchlist_down.gif -0.65 (-0.62%) http://media.cnbc.com/i/CNBC/CNBC_Images/backgrounds/realtime_icon.gif] (http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/GS), only 11 percent of hedge funds outpaced the S&P 500 through August 3. The report analyzed 699 hedge funds with $1.2 trillion of gross equity positions.



The average hedge fund http://media.cnbc.com/i/CNBC/Sections/News_And_Analysis/_News/_CNBC_EXPLAINS/_IMAGES/CNBC_explains_icon1.gif (http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232/?video=3000027509&play=1) returned just 5 percent year-to-date, while the S&P 500 was up nearly 12 percent. Meanwhile, the average large-cap core mutual fund posted a 10 percent gain.



A mere ten percent of hedge funds posted returns greater than 15 percent, while a fifth of hedge funds posted an absolute loss year to date. (Related: Dumb Money: Hedge Funds Can't Even Beat Bond Funds (http://www.cnbc.com/id/48137300/?Dumb_Money_Hedge_Funds_Can_t_Even_Beat_Bond_Funds )).
http://www.cnbc.com/id/48740709

[CosmicCowboy]

:wow Apple

They are definitely getting MY upgrade when the 5 comes out...

[coyotes_geek]

I would like to take a moment to thank red team for my quick and easy 12% profit on those SWHC shares I bought yesterday morning. :tu

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I would like to take a moment to thank red team for my quick and easy 12% profit on those SWHC shares I bought yesterday morning. :tu

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Well I knew it'd be down today but from what conservatives were saying, I expected a crash. They must be pretty disappointed it's not down very much so far.

[CosmicCowboy]

Well I knew it'd be down today but from what conservatives were saying, I expected a crash. They must be pretty disappointed it's not down very much so far.

Your stupid is showing again.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Your stupid is showing again.
Neat. Thanks for the heads up.

[CosmicCowboy]

Neat. Thanks for the heads up.

Seriously dude...why would conservatives (who are typically investors) want the economy and stock market to crash?

[cantthinkofanything]

Well I knew it'd be down today but from what conservatives were saying, I expected a crash. They must be pretty disappointed it's not down very much so far.

don't be a fuckhead. At this point, everyone just wants this country to turn around and head in a positive direction. I don't give a fuck who is in the White House if he does a good job. I don't have a lot of confidence that he can get it done but I sure don't wish bad on the rest of the country just so I can have the hollow victory of "I told you so."

[DarrinS]

Well I knew it'd be down today but from what conservatives were saying, I expected a crash. They must be pretty disappointed it's not down very much so far.

Really?

[Spurminator]

I would like to take a moment to thank red team for my quick and easy 12% profit on those SWHC shares I bought yesterday morning. :tu

I seriously thought about selling everything yesterday and putting it into S&W, but I didn't have the balls. Kicking myself now.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Seriously dude...why would conservatives (who are typically investors) want the economy and stock market to crash?

The same reason Mitch McConell made a pact that Obama being a 1 term president was a higher priority than restoring the economy, I'm guessing.

The same reason they cry conspiracy theory after every positive jobs report comes out, I'm guessing.

I'm not sure why you identify with this group as I see you as more of a moderate who's not a partisan hack, comes up with opinions on his own, and just wants his best interests (which I don't have a problem with), but it's clear that Republicans in this country get a personal satisfaction seeing Obama fail, even if it means this country fails. I know you'll deny it, but it seems pretty clear to me.

For instance, they somehow wanna label Obama as bad for the markets when the S&P 500 has gone up close to 80% since he took office. It's as if they'd rather get sodomized by a rusty machete than admit how much the markets have turned around since Obama took office.

[coyotes_geek]

I seriously thought about selling everything yesterday and putting it into S&W, but I didn't have the balls. Kicking myself now.

I didn't make a huge play here since I was afraid that an Obama win was already priced in. Worked out nicely for me though, although it's still going up so it looks like I left some money on the table.

[cantthinkofanything]

The same reason Mitch McConell made a pact that Obama being a 1 term president was a higher priority than restoring the economy, I'm guessing.

The same reason they cry conspiracy theory after every positive jobs report comes out, I'm guessing.

I'm not sure why you identify with this group as I see you as more of a moderate who's not a partisan hack, comes up with opinions on his own, and just wants his best interests (which I don't have a problem with), but it's clear that Republicans in this country get a personal satisfaction seeing Obama fail, even if it means this country fails. I know you'll deny it, but it seems pretty clear to me.

For instance, they somehow wanna label Obama as bad for the markets when the S&P 500 has gone up close to 80% since he took office. It's as if they'd rather get sodomized by a rusty machete than admit how much the markets have turned around since Obama took office.

You think the stock market rising with low volume and low individual participation is a good thing? A positive sign?

[CosmicCowboy]

The same reason Mitch McConell made a pact that Obama being a 1 term president was a higher priority than restoring the economy, I'm guessing.

What exactly did Obama NOT get that would have "restored the economy"?

The same reason they cry conspiracy theory after every positive jobs report comes out, I'm guessing.

The jobs report is a fucked up measure no matter which party is in power. I doesn't include the long term unemployed and it doesn't include the under employed. Real unemployment and underemployment is closer to 20%-25%

I'm not sure why you identify with this group as I see you as more of a moderate who's not a partisan hack, comes up with opinions on his own, and just wants his best interests (which I don't have a problem with), but it's clear that Republicans in this country get a personal satisfaction seeing Obama fail, even if it means this country fails. I know you'll deny it, but it seems pretty clear to me.

I admit that I despise the guy and wish he hadn't been re-elected

For instance, they somehow wanna label Obama as bad for the markets when the S&P 500 has gone up close to 80% since he took office. It's as if they'd rather get sodomized by a rusty machete than admit how much the markets have turned around since Obama took office.

Flooding the market with QE1, QE2 and QE INFINITY may make the markets look good short term but do you REALLY think it is good for the economy long term? I seriously expect 2013 to be a fucked up year for the markets


:lmao

Talk about sticking to your blue team talking points...

[MannyIsGod]

Seriously dude...why would conservatives (who are typically investors) want the economy and stock market to crash?

The same reason they've wanted everything to fail for the past 4 years. To blame Obama.

[DarrinS]

The same reason they've wanted everything to fail for the past 4 years. To blame Obama.


Yeah, I want to lose money so that I can blame it on Obama. :rolleyes

[Wild Cobra]

I would like to take a moment to thank red team for my quick and easy 12% profit on those SWHC shares I bought yesterday morning. :tu
And still climbing over the day!

[CosmicCowboy]

The same reason they've wanted everything to fail for the past 4 years. To blame Obama.

Obama isn't running for reelection.

[boutons_deux]

"why would conservatives (who are typically investors) want the economy and stock market to crash"

players bet anything and everything up and down, called "hedging".

the fiscal cliff theatre and Euro markets dropping hours before Wall St opened played a bigger role than the election