RIP: The Texas Economy is Overrated Myth

[DarrinS]

Very good blog entry. Lots of data, graphs, etc.

http://www.politicalmathblog.com/?p=1590

My favorite part:




My advice to anti-Perry advocates is this: Give up talking about Texas jobs. Texas is an incredible outlier among the states when it comes to jobs. Not only are they creating them, they're creating ones with higher wages.

[CosmicCowboy]

No shit. With all the illegal immigrants we need more elementary school principals.

[ElNono]

Do you really need that many charts and graphs to explain why Texas having a 8%+ unemployment rate is better than North Dakota at 3.2%?

Might aswell go with the official data:
http://www.bls.gov/ro6/fax/minwage_tx.htm

[CubanMustGo]

Roughly 39,000 out of the 302,000 new jobs created in Texas since the recovery began -- or 13 percent -- were in government. And 82 percent of those new government jobs were in local government. Texas's public sector has expanded by more than 2 percent in the past two years -- very nearly as fast as its private sector.
Another 39,500 -- just over 13 percent -- were in oil and gas extraction, or in support activities for mining, a category that includes oil-field services companies.
Even more -- 78,000, or 26 percent -- were in home health-care services or "ambulatory health-care services," while an additional 64,000, or 21 percent, were in "administrative and support services". Another 43,000, or 14 percent, were in "employment services."
And 24,000, or 7.9 percent, were in "food services and drinking places" -- restaurants and bars, essentially.

Together, those categories account for nearly 95 percent of the new jobs created in Texas.

The manufacturing sector, which nationwide has seen renewed growth in recent years (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/jobs-scene-manufacturing-prospects-picking-midwest-172504627.html), has lost 1,800 jobs in Texas over the same period.

Services (driven largely by a growing population), government (ditto), and jobs generated by skyrocketing oil prices, which Perry can't take credit for.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/texas-job-boom-under-perry-driven-government-energy-174054077.html?sec=topStories&pos=6&asset=&ccode=

[DarrinS]

Services (driven largely by a growing population), government (ditto), and jobs generated by skyrocketing oil prices, which Perry can't take credit for.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/texas-job-boom-under-perry-driven-government-energy-174054077.html?sec=topStories&pos=6&asset=&ccode=


This is the next talking point, now that McJobs myth is busted.

[ElNono]

This is the next talking point, now that McJobs myth is busted.

But it isn't busted.

[CosmicCowboy]

Manufacturing is MOVING to Texas. See Toyota, Caterpillar, etc.

[DarrinS]

But it isn't busted.

If it's not by now, you're not open to any new information.

[ElNono]

If it's not by now, you're not open to any new information.

I am. I just posted some information about McJobs.

[ElNono]

Manufacturing is MOVING to Texas. See Toyota, Caterpillar, etc.

It's just closer to the next step: Mexico... :lol

Seriously, props to Toyota for opening factories all around: Texas, Indiana and Mississippi.

[ElNono]

Disclaimer: I own a Toyota-built car. :lol

[DarrinS]

I am. I just posted some information about McJobs.

Yes. Do you know how they get that data?



Technical Note

The Bureau of Labor Statistics' data on minimum wage earners are derived from the Current Population Survey (CPS), a nationwide sample survey of households that includes questions enabling the identification of hourly-paid workers and their hourly wage rate. Data in this summary are annual averages.








Let's look at the data. Here's a link: Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates

Texas median hourly wage is $15.14... almost exactly in the middle of the pack (28th out of 51 regions). Given that they've seen exceptional job growth (and these other states have not) this does not seem exceptionally low.

But the implication here is that the new jobs in Texas, the jobs that Texas seems to stand alone in creating at such a remarkable pace, are low paying jobs and don't really count.

If this were true, all these new low-paying jobs should be dragging down the wages data, right? But if we look at the wages data since the beginning of the recession (click to enlarge, states are listed alphabetically)

And it turns out that the opposite is true. Since the recession started hourly wages in Texas have increased at a 6th fastest pace in the nation.

[ElNono]

He's building a strawman all by himself. Nobody is saying that 'low paying jobs ... don't really count'. They do count. But they're low paying jobs, as the Dept of Labour statistics clearly show.

And no, low paying jobs don't drag down wages. High unemployment (bigger supply of prospective employees) drag down wages.

Ranking 6th means shit when the nominal hourly wage growth in the nation since the recession has been marginal at best.

That's not new data. It's taking the data and building a giant straw.

The unemployment rate is STILL 8%+. The McJobs are still McJobs.

What I'm not surprised is that you ate all that hook, line and sinker though.

[ElNono]

1 in 12 people are without a job and the jobs we're creating are shit, but HEY, we're growing marginally faster!

[RandomGuy]

He's building a strawman all by himself. Nobody is saying that 'low paying jobs ... don't really count'. They do count. But they're low paying jobs, as the Dept of Labour statistics clearly show.

And no, low paying jobs don't drag down wages. High unemployment (bigger supply of prospective employees) drag down wages.

Ranking 6th means shit when the nominal hourly wage growth in the nation since the recession has been marginal at best.

That's not new data. It's taking the data and building a giant straw.

The unemployment rate is STILL 8%+. The McJobs are still McJobs.

What I'm not surprised is that you ate all that hook, line and sinker though.

Pretty much. You can always expect Darrin to be the last person in the world to realize that.

All you have to do is talk to him at any length and see the list of ad hominem and strawman logical fallacies.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4668020&postcount=2

[RandomGuy]

Sometimes, in my more paranoid moments, I honestly wonder if Darrin secretly isn't a leftie, whose only purpose here is to constantly say stupid shit to show how badly some conservatives reason and how illogically they view the world.

Sadly, I don't think it is an act.

[ElNono]

BTW, I'm not mocking Texas (a state I like to visit) or anything like that. They're not a 'miracle' economic state, but they're also far from the worst.

[RandomGuy]

BTW, I'm not mocking Texas (a state I like to visit) or anything like that. They're not a 'miracle' economic state, but they're also far from the worst.

None taken. It is what it is, and that appears to be little more than simple population growth, and a reflection of overall US trends towards McJobs.

Funnily enough, the liberal enclave of Austin does pretty well for itself. :lol

[coyotes_geek]

He's building a strawman all by himself. Nobody is saying that 'low paying jobs ... don't really count'. They do count. But they're low paying jobs, as the Dept of Labour statistics clearly show.

If there wasn't anyone trying to say that low paying jobs don't really count then 'yeah but they're low paying jobs' wouldn't be the pre-programmed auto response that it is anytime someone wants to mention job growth in Texas.

Jobs that underskilled, undereducated people can hold are not a bad thing, yet it's clearly being referenced as a negative against Perry. Not that job growth in Texas has been about Perry, but that's a separate conversation...........

[ElNono]

If there wasn't anyone trying to say that low paying jobs don't really count then 'yeah but they're low paying jobs' wouldn't be the pre-programmed auto response that it is anytime someone wants to mention job growth in Texas.

Jobs that underskilled, undereducated people can hold are not a bad thing, yet it's clearly being referenced as a negative against Perry. Not that job growth in Texas has been about Perry, but that's a separate conversation...........

The problem there has nothing to do with jobs, wages, job creation or growth though. The problem is the dilution of actual discussion into little snippets without substance (McJobs! Flip Flopper! Obamacare! Goodhair!).

[Agloco]

1 in 12 people are without a job and the jobs we're creating are shit, but HEY, we're growing marginally faster!

And I'm assured of getting my Mc-quarter pounder in a timely fashion. I vote status-quo tbh. :lol

[DarrinS]

And it turns out that the opposite is true. Since the recession started hourly wages in Texas have increased at a 6th fastest pace in the nation.

[DarrinS]

None taken. It is what it is, and that appears to be little more than simple population growth, and a reflection of overall US trends towards McJobs.

Funnily enough, the liberal enclave of Austin does pretty well for itself. :lol


Its completely logical for people to uproot from New York and California, and move clear across the country for Walmart and McDonalds jobs.

But hey, stay on message.



Take a trip down to Carizzo Springs.

http://www.ksat.com/video/28829702/index.html

[ElNono]

It's just as logical as having more population, making more (which translates into more taxpayers paying more taxes), with a budget hole that needs to be plugged with stimulus money.

Either you don't have said more population making more, or you have raising wasteful deficit spending (or you're in a combination somewhere in between with the latter outpacing the former).

Which one is it?

[baseline bum]

And I'm assured of getting my Mc-quarter pounder in a timely fashion. I vote status-quo tbh. :lol

Damn, that's gotta be the worst burger you can buy tbh. It's must be 60/40 beef or something. Strange, since the rest of the McDonalds burgers suck much less.

[ElNono]

And lol @ people uprooting from NY to go live there (link?)... other than retiring or winter Texan, there's no way in hell. The standard of living is somewhat cheaper, but the paycut is way more pronounced.

[Vici]

I wonder how many of those new jobs are going to stay. For my company, I know they are expanding here for now, but are planning to branch out throughout the rest of the country to tap a better, more qualified and smarter workforce.

[Vici]

And lol @ people uprooting from NY to go live there (link?)... other than retiring or winter Texan, there's no way in hell. The standard of living is somewhat cheaper, but the paycut is way more pronounced.

Most of the people in Austin are transplants. When I worked as a server while going to UT, about a third of all people I ID'd were from Cali.

[ElNono]

Most of the people in Austin are transplants. When I worked as a server while going to UT, about a third of all people I ID'd were from Cali.

Don't know about Cali, but the NY area sounds like BS, tbh.

[DarrinS]

And lol @ people uprooting from NY to go live there (link?)... other than retiring or winter Texan, there's no way in hell. The standard of living is somewhat cheaper, but the paycut is way more pronounced.

Two of my neighbors are CA transplants.

So when middle-class neighborhoods are being built, along with new schools, new strip malls, new office buildings, new movie theaters, new restaurants, new health clubs, new furniture stores, new home-improvement stores, new banks, new roads, etc. etc. etc., is it all to support the mass army of Walmart and fast food employees?

[ElNono]

Two of my neighbors are CA transplants.


And lol @ people uprooting from NY to go live there (link?)...


So when middle-class neighborhoods are being built, along with new schools, new strip malls, new office buildings, new movie theaters, new restaurants, new health clubs, new furniture stores, new home-improvement stores, new banks, new roads, etc. etc. etc., is it all to support the mass army of Walmart and fast food employees?

No other state builds middle-class neighborhoods, new schools, new strip malls, new office buildings, new movie theaters, new restaurants, new health clubs, new furniture stores, new home-improvement stores, new banks, new roads, etc. etc. etc?

Here's a reality check for you: 8% unemployment rate. About average for the country. There's no miracle, and you can't run away from it.

[DarrinS]

No other state builds middle-class neighborhoods, new schools, new strip malls, new office buildings, new movie theaters, new restaurants, new health clubs, new furniture stores, new home-improvement stores, new banks, new roads, etc. etc. etc?

I'm sure they do, but I'm just saying, as someone who routinely travels between SA and Austin, that there is a LOT of growth going on. And I see out-of-state plates constantly. Maybe they're all here to see the Alamo in 100 degree heat. No need to run from anything. Apparently, everyone's running to get here.

[DarrinS]

"Facts are perhaps difficult for the Democratic part"

:lmao

lCO7reJO8Qs

[ElNono]

I'm sure they do, but I'm just saying, as someone who routinely travels between SA and Austin, that there is a LOT of growth going on. And I see out-of-state plates constantly. Maybe they're all here to see the Alamo in 100 degree heat. No need to run from anything. Apparently, everyone's running to get here.

I travel quite a bit from here to Texas too, and I see plenty of out of state plates around these places too. The unemployment rate is still shit, here or there.

If you actually had people uprooting and permanently moving there, you would actually see less out-of-state plates, not more. That's logical.

[DarrinS]

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-economy/economy/records-us-migration-data-released/

[ElNono]

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-economy/economy/records-us-migration-data-released/

:lol How many of those are retirees? Let me guess, the overwhelming majority migrate to Florida... hmmm...

Never heard of the 'Florida miracle' (10.6% unemployment) or 'North Carolina miracle' (9.9% unemployment).

shit, New York unemployment is 8%, lower than any of those 2 states and Texas.

[boutons_deux]

Jimmy Ricky's job creation program:

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/fredgraph7.png

http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/08/16/296986/socialism-texas-style/

[boutons_deux]

21 Reasons Rick Perry's Texas Is a Complete Disaster

1. Texas leads the nation in the percentage of its population without health insurance (2010).

2. Only one state covered a smaller share of its poor population with Medicaid (PDF).

3. It's also number 1 in the percentage of children who lack insurance (2009).

4. Texas ranks dead last in the number of women who receive early prenatal care (2010).

5. It has the sixth highest rate of infectious diseases in America (2010).

6. It ranked 35th in the share of its children being immunized (2010)...

7. ...And 40th in overall health (2010).

8. Those numbers shouldn't come as a surprise – Texas had the ninth lowest level of health care spending per person (2010).

9. Texas ranked 36th in the nation in terms of its high school graduation rate (2010).

10. It has the lowest share of the population aged 25 and older holding a high-school diploma of any state (2008).

11. Its students have the sixth lowest SAT scores in the country (2008).

12. But Texas ranks fourth in terms of teen pregnancies (2005).

13. It's got the 16th highest crime rate (2010).

14. It ranks 17th in occupational fatalities (2010).

15. It's tied (with Missouri) for 19th in terms of the share of its citizens requiring food-stamps (2009).

16. It leads the nation in the amount of recognized carcinogens released into the air (2002).

17. Has the fourth highest amount of toxic chemicals in the environment (2002).

18. Texas’ per capita income growth was the eighth slowest of any state in the country between 1998 and 2008.

19. It ranks 47th median household net worth (averaged from 2007 to 2009).

20. Only seven states have a higher percentage of children in poverty (2010), and ...

21. ... Only nine states have a higher percentage of people of all ages living below the poverty line (2008).

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/152037

[boutons_deux]

Rick Perry And Sen. Grassley Promote Bizarre Myth About Non-Existent Tractor Regulation

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) about tractor regulations forcing farmers to jump through hoops:

He then proceeded to cite what he termed an “obscene, crazy” regulation. “If you are a tractor driver, if you drive your tractor across a public road, you’re going to have to have a commercial driver’s license. Now how idiotic is that?”

Perry said he had talked on Sunday night with U.S. Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa at a GOP dinner in Waterloo. Perry told Grassley he had heard in the previous two days that the federal government was going to put such a regulation in place.

“Your own United States senator, sitting there at the table, said, ‘That’s right.’ And I said, ‘What were they thinking, senator?’ And he said, ‘They weren’t.’ So that is the issue at hand here,” Perry said.

The only problem is this regulation simply doesn’t exist. “We are absolutely not requiring farmers” to obtain commercial licenses, said U.S. Department Of Transportation spokeswoman Candice Tolliver.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/08/16/296844/perry-tractor-regulation-myth/

====

Repugs, running on LIES and IGNORANCE.

[RandomGuy]

OVER the weekend, I predicted that Rick Perry will be a formidable candidate. Although many progressives are discounting him—see Kevin Drum's post on "Why Rick Perry Won't Win"—we can tell that many do take him seriously. The giveaway is that his announcement has inspired a rush of critical commentary about his record, particularly the vaunted "Texas Miracle" of job creation that will be central to Mr Perry's campaign in the primary and in the general election, should it come to that.

One of the major entries comes from Paul Krugman, in a column about the "Texas Unmiracle", which my colleague M.S. discussed yesterday. Mr Krugman writes:


...What you need to know is that the Texas miracle is a myth, and more broadly that Texan experience offers no useful lessons on how to restore national full employment.
It’s true that Texas entered recession a bit later than the rest of America, mainly because the state’s still energy-heavy economy was buoyed by high oil prices through the first half of 2008. Also, Texas was spared the worst of the housing crisis, partly because it turns out to have surprisingly strict regulation of mortgage lending.
Despite all that, however, from mid-2008 onward unemployment soared in Texas, just as it did almost everywhere else.

Texas's unemployment rate currently stands at 8.2%, which is a point below the national average, but nonetheless too high. That does complicate Mr Perry's claims to be some kind of economic magician, and more generally, as Mr Krugman suggests, some of the underlying factors and political decisions that have helped Texas through the recession can't be simply extrapolated to other states or scaled to the nation as a whole. However, I would suggest that in the rush to debunk Mr Perry, Democrats are being a little hasty. The Perry campaign is giving the startling statistic that since June 2009, 40% of the net new jobs created in America have been in Texas—a state with less than 10% of the nation's people. The Dallas Fed, earlier this month, reckoned that Texas created 261,700 jobs between June 2009 and June 2011, compared to 524,000 in the nation as a whole. Given the tremendous need for jobs in this country—and grinding unemployment is a horrible thing, not a minor inconvenience—it's a little disheartening to think that people are rushing to dismiss what has happened in Texas just because it's Texas and because Mr Perry, with his accent and his swagger, is the state's governor. So let's put politics aside. Pretend that Mr Perry doesn't exist, and that there's been a dummy stuffed with straw sitting in his office this whole time. What would have happened in Texas?

As Mr Krugman and others have noted, oil prices have helped buoy the economy. However, Texas is less dependent on oil and gas than it once was and the industry does not explain all or even most of the job creation. Another analysis from the Dallas Fed explains that between 1997-2010, a 10% increase in the price of oil would boost Texas GDP by 0.5%—and employment by a bit less, 0.36%, because oil is capital-intensive. Between 1970-1987, by contrast, a 10% uptick would boost the state GDP by 1.9%, and employment by 1%. According to Karr Ingram, an economist with the Texas Petroleum Institute, the Texas oil and gas industry added more than 28,600 jobs since June 2010, or about 13% of the state's net jobs in that span. It would also be fair to say that the oil and gas industry has impacts on Texas that are not captured in the traditional indicators. For example, Texas's longtime energy leadership has helped spur its interest in wind power, an industry where it now leads the nation. It may be counterintuitive, but there's a sense among state politicians that if Texas has the institutional expertise to do energy, that should extend to renewables, too. In any case, we can see that oil and gas are important to Texas job creation, but hardly the whole story.

Mr Krugman's comment about surprisingly strict mortgage lending refers to regulations that were put in place after the savings-and-loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s, which hit Texas pretty hard. The more general point is that in addition to Texas's natural resources, the state has a policy apparatus that predates Mr Perry and supports business—low taxes, generally few regulations (the mortgage lending being an exception), cheap labour, cheap land, etc. The state has also benefited from significant net population growth during the past decade, which has prompted job creation, including many of the service-sector "jobettes" that critics deride. Mr Krugman argues that population growth is down to "a high birth rate, immigration from Mexico, and inward migration of Americans from other states, who are attracted to Texas by its warm weather and low cost of living, low housing costs in particular." The comment about being attracted to Texas because of the warm weather suggests that Mr Krugman is on slightly shaky footing. It's a furnace right now. Some snowbirds come for the mild winters, but a lot of the in-migration is due to jobs—because companies have relocated here, because the military has expanded its footprint in Texas, or because people were looking at the unemployment rates and figured they would try their luck. It hasn't worked out for everyone, unfortunately. That's one reason why Texas's unemployment rate has jumped, too.

As for Mr Perry, since he does exist, what has he done? In his announcement speech he recited a four-part "recipe" for economic stewardship: low taxes, low regulation, tort reform, and "don't spend all the money." He actually hasn't cut that many taxes, partly because there wasn't much of a tax base to cut; Texas is one of the few states without an income tax, for example. His signature reform came in 2006, when he engineered a "swap" that lowered property tax rates—a constant complaint from homeowners—with the intention of offsetting those declines via an increase on the cigarette tax and a new margins tax on most businesses. Those new revenue streams haven't made up for the decline in property-tax receipts, so Republicans call this a net tax decrease and Democrats call it a structural deficit. More generally, what Mr Perry has done is resisted new taxes; here are a few counterexamples from Politifact. Similarly, he inherited a fairly minimal regulatory framework, but he does fight most new regulations, as in his lawsuit against the Environmental Protection Agency over its effort to regulate greenhouse gas emissions under the Clean Air Act.

Mr Perry can take credit for a major tort reform passed in 2003, and a follow up "loser pays" reform earlier this year. Another thing in his toolbox—he doesn't talk about this—is that in 2003 the legislature established the Texas Enterprise Fund, a "deal-closing fund" that gives the governor subsidies and incentives to use in his efforts to woo, or if you'd prefer, poach businesses from elsewhere. This seems to deviate from free-market orthodoxy and it has exposed him to charges of crony capitalism, but it has also helped his administration create jobs.

Now, clearly, the virtues of this approach are debatable. It may be that cutting taxes and regulations and services is a good way to attract business but a bad thing to do, on balance, because it leaves you less money for health care and education and infrastructure—areas where Texas lags the nation as a whole, and indeed, if nothing else, areas where the state must do better if it is going to have a worthwhile economy in the future. And I certainly don't mean to endorse Mr Perry's approach; personally, I have a lot of problems with it, although I do think the unemployment rate is a key measure of social welfare. But if we're talking strictly about job creation, Mr Perry has a good pitch. He deserves partial credit for Texas's job growth, just as he deserves partial blame for the state's stagnation on other metrics.

A fairly even handed treatment, and pretty accurate as far as I lookeed up. The article itself has a lot of links to supporting material, if anyone is interested, I didn't bother with all the hyperlinks, as there were so many.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/08/job-creation

[RandomGuy]

Here is a link to Politifact's Texas edition:

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/

[RandomGuy]

In addition to accusing the Fed Chairman of treason for doing his job (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/perry-warns-of-fed-treason-challenges-obama/2011/08/16/gIQABVScIJ_story.html), the one thing from Politifact that struck me was this turd:

Rick Perry says government wants to require commercial driver's licenses of anyone who drives a tractor across a road (http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/aug/16/rick-perry/rick-perry-says-government-wants-require-commercia/)

http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/rulings%2Ftom-false.gif

It amounts to a rumor, a "rural legend" that the good Governor sucked up as true and repeated without subjecting it to any common sense fact checking.

I thought Perry was going to be a bit stronger of a candidate, but the dude is putting his foot in his mouth at every opportunity.

[DarrinS]

A fairly even handed treatment, and pretty accurate as far as I lookeed up. The article itself has a lot of links to supporting material, if anyone is interested, I didn't bother with all the hyperlinks, as there were so many.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/08/job-creation


Good article. Thanks. :toast

[cheguevara]

21 Reasons Rick Perry's Texas Is a Complete Disaster

1. Texas leads the nation in the percentage of its population without health insurance (2010).

2. Only one state covered a smaller share of its poor population with Medicaid (PDF).

3. It's also number 1 in the percentage of children who lack insurance (2009).

4. Texas ranks dead last in the number of women who receive early prenatal care (2010).

5. It has the sixth highest rate of infectious diseases in America (2010).

6. It ranked 35th in the share of its children being immunized (2010)...

7. ...And 40th in overall health (2010).

8. Those numbers shouldn't come as a surprise – Texas had the ninth lowest level of health care spending per person (2010).

9. Texas ranked 36th in the nation in terms of its high school graduation rate (2010).

10. It has the lowest share of the population aged 25 and older holding a high-school diploma of any state (2008).

11. Its students have the sixth lowest SAT scores in the country (2008).

12. But Texas ranks fourth in terms of teen pregnancies (2005).

13. It's got the 16th highest crime rate (2010).

14. It ranks 17th in occupational fatalities (2010).

15. It's tied (with Missouri) for 19th in terms of the share of its citizens requiring food-stamps (2009).

16. It leads the nation in the amount of recognized carcinogens released into the air (2002).

17. Has the fourth highest amount of toxic chemicals in the environment (2002).

18. Texas’ per capita income growth was the eighth slowest of any state in the country between 1998 and 2008.

19. It ranks 47th median household net worth (averaged from 2007 to 2009).

20. Only seven states have a higher percentage of children in poverty (2010), and ...

21. ... Only nine states have a higher percentage of people of all ages living below the poverty line (2008).

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/152037

so Texas is like Mexico without the drug cartels and free healthcare

[clambake]

why would texas be building more schools?

[Agloco]

And I'm assured of getting my Mc-quarter pounder in a timely fashion. I vote status-quo tbh. :lol


Damn, that's gotta be the worst burger you can buy tbh. It's must be 60/40 beef or something. Strange, since the rest of the McDonalds burgers suck much less.

To be fair, I can also get my Angus burgers in a timely fashion if I so choose.