NBA Insider Request for article on Spurs

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Bucher has an article on "Trades that can help the Spurs"

Anyone able to post it?

[024]

Editor's note: Our series this week examines what would happen if five teams decided to start over by making seismic personnel shifts before the 2012-13 season; because of varying factors including age, salaries or expiring contracts, these five teams decide to begin anew. But such an exercise comes with some rules: (1) the owners get the hard salary cap they desire; and (2) exclude the 2012 NBA draft. Today we look at the Spurs.

Taking the draft out of the equation in rebuilding the San Antonio Spurs changes this from a speculative exercise to pure fantasy, seeing as how the Spurs have been a powerhouse for the last decade largely off of their ability to unearth talent late in the draft and then indoctrinate it in the San Antonio way. It's the same blueprint that has worked for most consistently successful small-market teams.

A Spurs makeover is also challenging because, in my mind, it means moving at least two parts of their three-man core -- Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker -- or else you're just equivocating. (I'm starting this exercise off by trusting that San Antonio made a wise choice in dealing George Hill for rookie small forward Kawhi Leonard, so I have him plugged in as my future 3.) And you don't have to be a Spurs fan to know how unappealing and gut-wrenching that would be for GM R.C. Buford or coach Gregg Popovich. They've already kept that nucleus longer than they should have because there just weren't options that could assure them of still contending; and let's face it, that's where the bar has been set for the Spurs.

But enough with the caveats. Here are a few avenues I'd explore in free agency and via trade in hopes of forging another run at title contention before we're listening to Duncan and Popovich make their Hall of Fame induction speeches.

Tim Duncan: "Tim-may" stays, largely because as a free agent entering the 2012 season, I can re-sign him to a deal more appropriate to his value and the restrictions of a $62 million hard cap. He is one of the few superstars I can think of who would take less and trust that the Spurs will invest what they save on his salary in talent that gives him a crack at another ring.

His relationship with Popovich is also the foundation upon which the Spurs' excellence has been built; if Pop can rag on Tim, as he often does, it lets everyone know they're accountable. For all that Duncan has lost athletically, he's still a gifted passing and shooting 7-footer who willingly shapes his game to accommodate his teammates, even lesser ones.
Try as the Spurs might, they have not been able to find an athletic stretch 4 to do for Duncan what Robert Horry did so well. Instead, they've used a compendium: Matt Bonner to space the floor with 3s, McDyess to defend, DeJuan Blair to rebound. But there's a young freakishly athletic 4 who desperately wants out of his current situation, and if I'm San Antonio I do everything to get him: the Atlanta Hawks' Josh Smith. If there's a catch-lightning-in-a-bottle opportunity, it's taking all the obvious physical talent Smith has and harnessing it under the tutelage of Popovich and Duncan. Since the Hawks are in need of both a point guard and veteran leadership, I would offer them Parker, a deal that would work straight up.

Another option, though slightly less attractive, is to see if the Kings would be willing to satisfy their need for a starting point guard -- forgive me for having doubts that either Tyreke Evans or Jimmer Fredette are the answer -- by dealing DeMarcus Cousins. I know, I know: it's a tremendous long shot because big men of Cousins' abilities are so extremely rare. But Cousins obviously has already rubbed more than a few people in Sacramento the wrong way and maybe, just maybe, the idea of having a steady experienced hand like Parker, whose speed and pedigree might be the perfect complement to the up-and-down talent of Evans, Donte Greene and the rest of the Kings' young, athletic core, compels Sacramento to pull the trigger.

Again, my objective is to get a young, athletic big who can help me get the most out of whatever Duncan has left. (DeJuan Blair, for all his relentless board-crashing, is clearly not the answer, because when his effort drops in the slightest, he's a non-factor.) I'd like to think that Cousins would recognize what a great mentor Duncan could be for him, much as David Robinson was for Duncan, and the chance to be next in line in the legacy of great San Antonio big men.

One solid advantage the Spurs have over the Los Angeles Lakers, Orlando Magic and Dallas Mavericks is that they're on the books for $44 million in player salaries in 2012, meaning they can be players in the free-agent market. If Duncan were willing to sign for $10 million or less, San Antonio would still have $8 million left in cap space to find a free-agent point guard to replace Parker. Several options should be available that could allow the Spurts to land a PG with money to spare. There's the Rockets' Goran Dragic, who Spurs fans well remember for his 23-point fourth-quarter burst in the AT&T Center two years ago that helped sweep the Spurs out of the second round. He's also Slovenian, and if anyone has been able to cultivate foreign guards, it's Popovich. The prospect of starting in San Antonio surely would appeal to Dragic over playing behind Kyle Lowry in Houston.

If, for some reason, Dragic has better offers, though, there are a few other free-agent options, Andre Miller, JJ Barea and Randy Foye being three. I don't want to downplay what Parker has meant to San Antonio, but I can find a serviceable point guard on the 2012 market faster than I can find a big man of Duncan's caliber and character.

That brings us to Ginobili. I'd be more than happy to bail on this exercise at this point and say my work is done, because an argument could be made that Ginobili has forged a deeper emotional bond with both Popovich and the Spurs' community than Duncan has. Duncan is the good son who always cleans his plate and brings home the solid report card; Manu is the one who you find out missed school but did so to save a family of four from terrorists. Bottom line: Pop wasn't just blowing smoke when he said the Spurs never would've won their last three championships without him.

But if I have to move two of the three, then Manu has to go. But where and for whom? Would the Hawks be willing to make a megadeal, adding Joe Johnson with Josh in exchange for the Spurs' starting backcourt and Richard Jefferson? Or could I deal Manu and Jefferson for Johnson alone, which, if nothing else, makes the Hawks just as good in the short term and relieves them of a Johnson contract that will become only more onerous? That leaves me free to dangle Parker in front of the Kings.

Or, can I pry away one of the Bulls' quality young bigs, Omer Asik or Taj Gibson, along with Kyle Korver and Ronnie Brewer for an aging Manu? (Probably not worth it for either side, but a Rose-Manu backcourt would be tantalizing for at least a year, and to be honest, I'm not sure that a 34-year-old SG reaps better building blocks than Gibson and Brewer for San Antonio at this stage.)

Or do I send him to Golden State, which is in need of a veteran who understands how a winning program works, for Monta Ellis, again going on the premise that I need to get younger and that my disciplined system will elevate a raw talent into something special? (This, admittedly, is probably too risky for Golden State, but if anyone can restore Andris Biedrins to the pick-and-roll threat he was with Stephen Jackson and Boom Dizzle, it's Manu. And I like having a big playmaking guard to utilize Curry as a spot-up shooter when he's overmatched.)

I could live with a new lineup of: PG Dragic, SG Johnson, SF Kawhi Leonard, PF Smith, C Duncan.

Or PG Miller, SG Ellis, SF Leonard, PF Smith, C Duncan.

Or even PG Barea, SG Johnson, SF Leonard, PF Duncan, C Cousins.

Would any of these be better than what the Spurs have been for the last decade? Probably not. Manu and Tim, in particular, are once-in-a-decade finds, and Parker is not far behind. The Spurs also have been built as much on consistency and familiarity as anything, and this is a grand departure from that. But every team has to stop patching and accept that it's time for four new tires at some point. That's where the Spurs are now. It's time to break out the tire iron and start cracking some lug nuts.
nothing that would help the spurs win a championship. just rebuilding ideas.

[hsxvvd]

I could live with a new lineup of: PG Dragic, SG Johnson, SF Kawhi Leonard, PF Smith, C Duncan.

Or PG Miller, SG Ellis, SF Leonard, PF Smith, C Duncan.

Or even PG Barea, SG Johnson, SF Leonard, PF Duncan, C Cousins.

Really? People actually pay for this shit?

Ellis & Cousins? :lol... yep, when I think Spurs... I think of an undersized pg with sticky fingers and an unmotivated, overweight sure to be career underachiever.

Why not keep Parker and Manu and sign Eddy Curry and Iverson on the cheap....:rolleyes

[wildbill2u]

IMO if you start with the premise that you have to blow up the big three, you have to start with Duncan. He is the least serviceable with eroding skills, aging faster and highest paid.

I don't know who we could get for him, but we've traded a player who was the franchise before (Gervin) to wring the last bit of value out of him. Could you get Josh Smith straight up for Duncan?

Once you break the psychological barrier of trading Timmy, you might be better off to stop trading any more of the big 3.

A lineup of Smith, Splitter, Leonard, Parker and Manu would be pretty damn tough.

I doubt that any trade with Duncan will happen.

[TimDunkem]

Ellis & Cousins? :lol... yep, when I think Spurs... I think of an undersized pg with sticky fingers and an unmotivated, overweight sure to be career underachiever.



To be honest- with a shitty lineup like; Miller, Ellis, Leonard, Smith, and Duncan- you'd need those points to come from somewhere. Having Ellis wouldn't be such a terrible thing in that situation.


Still, I agree - all those trades suck ass - Bucher's analysis on the Spurs is always terrible.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Thanks 024, appreciate it! :toast

[ChuckD]

IMO if you start with the premise that you have to blow up the big three, you have to start with Duncan. He is the least serviceable with eroding skills, aging faster and highest paid.

I don't know who we could get for him, but we've traded a player who was the franchise before (Gervin) to wring the last bit of value out of him. Could you get Josh Smith straight up for Duncan?

Once you break the psychological barrier of trading Timmy, you might be better off to stop trading any more of the big 3.

A lineup of Smith, Splitter, Leonard, Parker and Manu would be pretty damn tough.

I doubt that any trade with Duncan will happen.

Gervin wasn't traded for value, he was traded because he was a HUGE coke head at the time. It took him years of being estranged from the club, and then getting cleaned up before the fences were mended and they gave him the community relations job he now holds.

[mrose31]

Gervin wasn't traded for value, he was traded because he was a HUGE coke head at the time. It took him years of being estranged from the club, and then getting cleaned up before the fences were mended and they gave him the community relations job he now holds.

I don't know about now but I know in the 1998 when I worked at a dry cleaners I found a vile of coke in one of Gervins suits.

[sananspursfan21]

wow, i really wasted my time reading that

[bigfan]

Have to say this is drivel. I dont see any reason to ever move Duncan or Manu, period. As for Parker, if I could get a great 4 in a straight up trade Id consider it.

[scottspurs]

Bucher wishes

[Mel_13]

Taj Gibson and Ronnie Brewer as "building blocks".

:rollin

[Seventyniner]

Parker has by far the most trade value of not just the big 3, but the whole team. He's still a great scorer, a leader, and is on a reasonable contract with a non-guaranteed year at the end.

The Spurs would never get anything approaching fair value for Manu or Duncan.

Parker for Josh Smith is intriguing, but it leaves a gaping hole at PG; there's no way to tell how easy it would be to fill given the lack of a CBA.

[AFBlue]

With all the caveats throughout the article, I'm not even sure why he bothered to go forward with one (quota?). The only player I like throughout the entire article is Josh Smith, but the Parker-for-Smith straight up deal leaves a huge hole at PG and doesn't represent fair trade value for Parker. If they're willing to include Teague then maybe it's a conversation.

[DisciplinaryOffice]

Gervin wasn't traded for value, he was traded because he was a HUGE coke head at the time. It took him years of being estranged from the club, and then getting cleaned up before the fences were mended and they gave him the community relations job he now holds.

So, what you're saying is that the first step to trading Tim (and I'm not saying I'm a proponent of doing this) is to get him hooked on coke? Evil. And genius. Then the question becomes which team is mostly likely to bite on an aging 7-foot coke head, and what do they have to offer in return?

[Rob in Converse]

Have to say this is drivel. I dont see any reason to ever move Duncan or Manu, period. As for Parker, if I could get a great 4 in a straight up trade Id consider it.

If you could somehow negate the Knucklehead factor, TP for Cousins and Evans would make me happy

:flag:

[stephen jackson]

tp for josh smith straight up would be a great deal

thats seems most realistic... were not winning another title as is but with smith alongside timmy & manu thats way better than tp
gives us size and defense
adding hinrich for dyess is even better

[024]

the best idea bucher had was acquiring cousins. if zach randolph can turn things around, then so can cousins, especially since he's still young. bucher makes a lot of sense that cousins will probably be very motivated knowing that he may be next in line to succeed duncan and robinson. this is really the best rebuilding strategy. i doubt the spurs can luck out again in the lottery and find a big man as talented as cousins. the potential of a cousins/splitter front court has the ability to match the grizzlies'.

the tp for josh smith has been debated for years. i don't know how that would really improve the spurs as josh smith isn't very bright and the spurs will have a giant hole at PG.

[therealtruth]

As great as Josh Smith is athletically I really don't trust his basketball IQ. He's not even close to Horry in terms of BBIQ. Also he's a 3 masquerading as 4 because Atlanta doesn't have a real center. Their ideal lineup would be to move Horford to 4 and Smith to 3. Being undersized at the 4 is tougher in the West with the bigger frontcourts. Also unlike Horry he's not a great outside shooter.

Now I would have no problem trading Tony for a past first point guard ala Chris Paul, shifting Splitter into the starting lineup, and getting a backup 4/5. I think that would reap more benefits and is proven. The Spurs played their best basketball last season when Tony was looking to pass more. He was averaging 15 ppg and a career high 8+ apg. In the second half of the season and the playoffs the Spurs struggled when Tony tried scoring more and passing less. Jefferson went from a 20 point scoring threat to a zero threat.

[wildbill2u]

Gervin wasn't traded for value, he was traded because he was a HUGE coke head at the time. It took him years of being estranged from the club, and then getting cleaned up before the fences were mended and they gave him the community relations job he now holds.

I agree with your statement as to the reason WHY he was traded, but they WERE willing to trade him and did because his value to the team was way down. In their opinion, they traded the fan favourite and one-time superstar for what the could get for him.

Timmy could bring us some value still. I wouldn't like it, but at this point that's the only decision to make intellectually if you want to rebuild by blowing up the current big three.

If you need at least 3 first line elite players to win a championship now in the NBA, trading Timmy for another good player would be the easiest way to get there. Otherwise both Parker and Manu have to go and you probably wind up worse off than before--Timmy still fading fast and two replacements who may or may not be as good or will take too long to learn the system.

I think Timmy would retire before being traded, but you never know. His pride alone might lead him to try another few years.

[elemento]

Man Gervin was great, but are we comparing him to TD?

How many titles did we have before TD? We were the poor version of the Utah Jazz before TD. Classy organization that had some great players but could never win shit.

We should never trade TD. I don't give a damn if he can bring some value. He should and will retire as a Spur.

[wildbill2u]

I don't know about now but I know in the 1998 when I worked at a dry cleaners I found a vile of coke in one of Gervins suits.

The list of Spurs players who were seriously into coke during those years is a lot longer than just Gervin.

[mystargtr34]

Lol Ric Puker

[acoelho1]

I wouldn't entertain any trades for Manu. Just can't see him or TD wearing any other jersey. However, I feel differently about TP but don't think the Smith deal would make us any better. I would prefer a deal with Utah and a package around Al Jefferson.

[Ditty]

The only trade that really entertains me is Parker and Dice for Harris and Favors.

Harris isn't a huge downgrade from Parker, and could still help us compete while we get a great piece for the future in Favors who we could build this team around.

If this team decides to go into full rebuild mode, and if there is truely some interst for the Thunder want a low post scorer and defender in the paint.

Duncan for Harden,Aldrich, Jackson would be a solid start of a rebuild. Of course I doubt the Spurs will ever trade Duncan unless he requests it.

Ginobili will then wouldn't be serviceable, and maybe a young up and coming team like Minnesota could want him, while we get some young prospects back.

Splitter
Favors
Jefferson(hopefully can trade him somehow even if we have to use a 1st rounder to get rid of him)
Harden
Harris

Aldrich
Blair
Leonard
Anderson
Neal
Jackson
Joseph

Not even mentioning the prospects we could get from Minnesota from Manu.

Of course alot of this just assumptions, and hopefully next year will be the Spurs last season before unloading everyone like Bulls did in 98.

Have alot of salary cap room also, and alot of young solid prospects would be a pretty damn solid rebuild before even sucking, or tanking.

[ivanfromwestwood]

you guys are plain fucking retarded even thinking about trading duncan. we owe a great debt to tim for being such a cornerstone for over a decade of basketball where i felt every year we could have won. i would trade peter holt before i trade duncan.

[Shifty]

At first I jumped ahead at the lineups given at the end and thought this was one more BS article from a ESPN’s “insider”. Then when reading all the caveats and some of the explanations it didn’t seem as bad. You have to consider that he is only providing ideas if rebuilding is the way the FO wants to go. I’m sure we could end up way worse than his suggestions. Actually, we probably will at some point. This core has to end somehow, either retirement from TD, Manu or both, or trades. We could all agree we would rather have a lousy team and completely rebuild for a few years if we wait for them to retire as Spurs than probably having a mediocre team and start over 5 years later if we decide to trade them.

We have to accept we could never get equal value for any of the big3. His suggestions are actually better than what I think we would end up getting.

[TD 21]

I'd say what was he thinking, but that would suggest he was thinking at all. This is the second time in a couple of months that Bucher has come up with a litany of ridiculous trades involving the Spurs. Both times his primary objective was to acquire an athletic four, who can shoot and both times he's failed to mention what's probably the most likely possibility: Amir Johnson.

Johnson doesn't have the ball skills of Smith, but he works harder, plays within' himself, is significantly cheaper and probably won't cost the Spurs more than Blair, in terms of value. Jefferson/Blair for Johnson/Kleiza or Blair/McDyess for Johnson, works.

Let's presume for a moment that the former occurs (it's more likely, given that it doesn't increase payroll). Now let's presume that this three-way trade occurs: Spurs acquire Pietrus, Suns acquire Bell, Jazz acquire Kleiza. That would leave the Spurs with . . .

Johnson/Bonner
Pietrus/Leonard/Butler or Green
Duncan/Splitter
Ginobili/Anderson
Parker/Neal/Joseph

Sign Pargo, a half decent fifth big and bring over Richards, if possible, to round out the roster.

I'd prefer this to any of Bucher's proposals.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I'd say what was he thinking, but that would suggest he was thinking at all. This is the second time in a couple of months that Bucher has come up with a litany of ridiculous trades involving the Spurs. Both times his primary objective was to acquire an athletic four, who can shoot and both times he's failed to mention what's probably the most likely possibility: Amir Johnson.

Johnson doesn't have the ball skills of Smith, but he works harder, plays within' himself, is significantly cheaper and probably won't cost the Spurs more than Blair, in terms of value. Jefferson/Blair for Johnson/Kleiza or Blair/McDyess for Johnson, works.

Let's presume for a moment that the former occurs (it's more likely, given that it doesn't increase payroll). Now let's presume that this three-way trade occurs: Spurs acquire Pietrus, Suns acquire Bell, Jazz acquire Kleiza. That would leave the Spurs with . . .

Johnson/Bonner
Pietrus/Leonard/Butler or Green
Duncan/Splitter
Ginobili/Anderson
Parker/Neal/Joseph

Sign Pargo, a half decent fifth big and bring over Richards, if possible, to round out the roster.

I'd prefer this to any of Bucher's proposals.


That would be incredible if the Spurs could pull that off :tu

Nice post man

[Sean Cagney]

Man Gervin was great, but are we comparing him to TD?

How many titles did we have before TD? We were the poor version of the Utah Jazz before TD. Classy organization that had some great players but could never win shit.

We should never trade TD. I don't give a damn if he can bring some value. He should and will retire as a Spur.

Now thats what the fuck I am talking about.

[The ADMIRAL 50]

Man Gervin was great, but are we comparing him to TD?

How many titles did we have before TD? We were the poor version of the Utah Jazz before TD. Classy organization that had some great players but could never win shit.

We should never trade TD. I don't give a damn if he can bring some value. He should and will retire as a Spur.

Amen

[The ADMIRAL 50]

With all the caveats throughout the article, I'm not even sure why he bothered to go forward with one (quota?). The only player I like throughout the entire article is Josh Smith, but the Parker-for-Smith straight up deal leaves a huge hole at PG and doesn't represent fair trade value for Parker. If they're willing to include Teague then maybe it's a conversation.

Great call on the teague inclusion. this would have to be done as, as many people have pointed out, the trade creates an obvious hole at point guard and at least teague is servicable with good upside. that said, while right now josh smith is definitely the superior player, cousins has more potential and a higher ceiling. The smith trade would make us better in tims last years but cousins could potentially serve the franchise better in the long run.

[Seventyniner]

Great call on the teague inclusion. this would have to be done as, as many people have pointed out, the trade creates an obvious hole at point guard and at least teague is servicable with good upside. that said, while right now josh smith is definitely the superior player, cousins has more potential and a higher ceiling. The smith trade would make us better in tims last years but cousins could potentially serve the franchise better in the long run.

Good point about Smith/Cousins. Having Tim Duncan as a teacher could really turn Cousins around, but you never know; he might just be a headcase. I'm not sure the Spurs post-Duncan could handle a Rasheed or Z-Bo (pre-Memphis).