2005 Finals MVP

[Deuce Bigalow]

2005 NBA Finals

Manu Ginobili - 18.7 ppg on 63.6 TS%, 5.9 rpg, 4.0 apg

Tim Duncan - 20.6 ppg on 47.1 TS%, 14.1 rpg, 2.1 apg

[Deuce Bigalow]

Manu deserves it imo

[Nathan89]

Tbh,imho, no one cares about your opinion.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Tbh,imho, no one cares about your opinion.

im just putting it out there, not saying that you have to care

[ElNono]

How did the Lakeshow do that year?

im just putting it out there

[Deuce Bigalow]

How did the Lakeshow do that year?

im just putting it out there

horrible, too many injuries

[ElNono]

horrible, too many injuries

How many games Kobe missed?

Who did they play in the 1st round? I can't remember, tbh.

[Deuce Bigalow]

How many games Kobe missed?

Who did they play in the 1st round? I can't remember, tbh.

Kobe missed 16 games
Odom missed 18 games
Mihm (starting Center) missed 7 games
Butler missed 5 games

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2005.html

[HarlemHeat37]

Ginobili was undoubtedly the Spurs best offensive player during the series, and arguably their most impactful all-around player..claiming he should have been awarded the Finals MVP isn't far-fetched at all..

You could make a similar argument that Pau Gasol deserved the 2010 Finals MVP, although the argument would not be as strong, obviously..

[jesterbobman]

Considering Kobe's shooting, an argument for Gasol as 2010 Finals MVP is absolutely credible.

[ElNono]

Kobe missed 16 games

That's funny. Duncan also missed 16 games that season.

Who did the Lakeshow play in the 1st round? I can't remember, tbh.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Ginobili was undoubtedly the Spurs best offensive player during the series, and arguably their most impactful all-around player..claiming he should have been awarded the Finals MVP isn't far-fetched at all..

You could make a similar argument that Pau Gasol deserved the 2010 Finals MVP, although the argument would not be as strong, obviously..

Yeah I agree

2010 NBA Finals

Kobe Bryant - 28.6 ppg on 52.8 TS%, 8.0 rpg, 3.9 apg
Pau Gasol - 18.6 ppg on 55.6 TS%, 11.6 rpg, 3.7 apg

Pau has a case, considering the amount of assists he has compared to Kobe is impressive, but the 10 ppg difference is too much

[Deuce Bigalow]

That's funny. Duncan also missed 16 games that season.

Who did the Lakeshow play in the 1st round? I can't remember, tbh.

lol like you dont already know

[ElNono]

lol like you dont already know

Who did they play? lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

Who did they play? lol

they played the spurs..didnt u watch
lol

[Leetonidas]

What were the BPG for that series?

[ElNono]

they played the spurs..didnt u watch
lol

Certainly not the the Spurs... Spurs played Nuggets, Sonics, Suns, Pistons.

So how Kobe did in the 1st round? Who did your team play against?

crofl

[Deuce Bigalow]

What were the BPG for that series?

blocks
manu - 0
duncan - 2.1

steals
manu - 1.3
duncan - 0.4

[Deuce Bigalow]

Certainly not the the Spurs... Spurs played Nuggets, Sonics, Suns, Pistons.

So how Kobe did in the 1st round? Who did your team play against?

crofl

what the f?

kobe - 5 rings
spurs - 4 rings

why you talking?

[Sean Cagney]

Manu deserves it imo

Thats great. In all honesety yeah he could have won it I would not bitch over it, but either was a choice nobody could really bitch over. Manu was mad nice in those finals though, but how much of that lane was due to Tim being doubled or draped all over? He did more than just score. He outscored and rebounded both Wallaces in the first two games, and thats real.

[Trainwreck2100]

the vote was 6-4 for duncan to be the MVP IIRC

[ElNono]

what the f?

Who are the F? Is that who the Lakeshow play in the 1st round back then?

:lmao


why you talking?

I'm just putting it out there, you don't have to care, tbh

[joshdaboss]

Are you kidding me? If Duncan even puts up comparable offensive numbers, he automatically wins this debate, which he did. Manu does not even come close to sniffing Duncan's defensive impact.

[Leetonidas]

The only knock on Tim is him missing that putback in Game 5 which set the stage for Horry rapingPERIOD. He may have shot 47% (lol TS%?) but remember he had the best post defender and tandem in the league smothering him

[joshdaboss]

People are also forgetting Duncan was playing on 2 bad ankles and still put up those numbers.

[Deuce Bigalow]

People are also forgetting Duncan was playing on 2 bad ankles and still put up those numbers.

manu averaged 5 less minutes and still was the best player in the series

[joshdaboss]

manu averaged 5 less minutes and still was the best player in the series

Based on? Your opinion? ROFL

[Deuce Bigalow]

Based on? Your opinion? ROFL


Manu Ginobili - 18.7 ppg on 63.6 TS%, 5.9 rpg, 4.0 apg

Tim Duncan - 20.6 ppg on 47.1 TS%, 14.1 rpg, 2.1 apg

in 4.7 less mpg
and the big plays in the clutch

best player in the series

[Deuce Bigalow]

and do you know how bad 47.1 TS% is for a big man? its terrible

[dbreiden83080]

Duncan's play in the 2nd half of game 7 was the difference..

[Deuce Bigalow]

Duncan's play in the 2nd half of game 7 was the difference..

4th quarter of game 7

Manu - 11 points
Duncan - 5 points

game 7
Manu - 23 points on 13 shots
Duncan - 25 points on 27 shots

TS% of game 7
Manu - .757%
Duncan - .422%

[dbreiden83080]

4th quarter of game 7

Manu - 11 points
Duncan - 5 points

Manu - 23 points on 13 shots
Duncan - 25 points on 27 shots

TS% of game 7
Manu - .757%
Duncan - .422%

Have you watched the game or are you just visiting Basketball reference.com? After a terrible 1st half for the whole team Duncan came alive in the 3rd Qtr scoring i believe 12 of his 25 in the qtr.. Pistons were playing a lot of 1 on 1 with the 2 Wallaces, staying at home on the Spurs shooters.. When Duncan came alive Larry Brown starting doubling down hard and Duncan was finding the open man. At least 9 pts were scored on big wide open 3's late in the game as a result of the double team.. Manu and Bruce both hit 2 with no Pistons in sight.. Plus Tim had a bigger defensive presence the entire series.. He led the series in pts and rebounds as well.. And leadership.. Watch the finals DVD he is chewing out the guys on the bench demanding more and had that refuse to lose mentality..

[Deuce Bigalow]

Have you watched the game or are you just visiting Basketball reference.com? After a terrible 1st half for the whole team Duncan came alive in the 3rd Qtr scoring i believe 12 of his 25 in the qtr.. Pistons were playing a lot of 1 on 1 with the 2 Wallaces, staying at home on the Spurs shooters.. When Duncan came alive Larry Brown starting doubling down hard and Duncan was finding the open man. At least 9 pts were scored on big wide open 3's late in the game as a result of the double team.. Manu and Bruce both hit 2 with no Pistons in sight.. Plus Tim has a bigger defensive presence the entire series.. He led the series in pts and rebounds as well.. And leadership.. Watch the finals DVD he is chewing out the guys in the huddle demanding more and had that refuse to lose mentality..

lol cool, but manu was the best player in the series
duncan was the leader, but manu was the better player

and i did watch the games, remember game 5, 1/4 in freethrows and missing a WIDEOPEN put back layup in the 4th, and not scoring a single field goal in the last 10 minutes of that game, just 1 point on 1/4 freethrows

[dbreiden83080]

lol cool, but manu was the best player in the series
duncan was the leader, but manu was the better player

and i did watch the games, remember game 5, 1/4 in freethrows and missing a WIDEOPEN put back layup in the 4th, and not scoring a single field goal in the last 10 minutes of that game, just 1 point on 1/4 freethrows

Duncan was the foundation of the teams entire defense.. The 2 best defenders were Bruce and Tim.. Manu is a good defender but not at that level.. And he got wide open shots in game 7 thanks to guess who??

[Deuce Bigalow]

Duncan was the foundation of the teams entire defense.. The 2 best defenders were Bruce and Tim.. Manu is a good defender but not at that level.. And he got wide open shots in game 7 thanks to guess who??

manu went to the rim and hit all the big shots
it wasnt cause of tim lol
and duncans defense wasnt even that good, Sheed took it to him all the time

[Deuce Bigalow]

nobody could play any worse than duncan in the 4th and OT of game 5
he was bad
missed every shot, blocked, stripped, missed 3/4 of his freethrows, sheed hittin shots on him

[dbreiden83080]

manu went to the rim and hit all the big shots


Manu hit shots, Bruce hit shots, Tim hit shots and forced the action.. Tim basically did what Lebron was too scared to do.. Keep demanding the ball even when you are not shooting a great %.. He didn't back off. And that's why the Spurs won..

[dbreiden83080]

nobody could play any worse than duncan in the 4th and OT of game 5
he was bad
missed every shot, blocked, stripped, missed 3/4 of his freethrows

Everyone and i mean everyone sucked games 3 and 4 in detroit.. The whole team..

[Deuce Bigalow]

Everyone and i mean everyone sucked games 3 and 4 in detroit.. The whole team..

i just checked the numbers, and they were god awful

[Deuce Bigalow]

but theres no excuse for a big man shooting THAT bad
the dude plays in the post, >10 foot shots

30 points on 10/32 shooting in game 3-4

[dbreiden83080]

but theres no excuse for a big man shooting THAT bad
the dude plays in the post, >10 foot shots

Tim had a good finals.. Not close to the damage he did in 99 and 03 but he was facing the best defensive team in the league on 2 bad ankles in games like 100 plus on the season..

And they won.. So it's all good..

[Deuce Bigalow]

Tim had a good finals.. Not close to the damage he did in 99 and 03 but he was facing the best defensive team in the league on 2 bad ankles in games like 100 plus on the season..

And they won.. So it's all good..

just admit that ginobili was better

[dbreiden83080]

just admit that ginobili was better

Can't do it bro..

Good talk

[Deuce Bigalow]

Can't do it bro..

Good talk

you know in your heart manu was the mvp, dont lie to yourself

[Leetonidas]

but theres no excuse for a big man shooting THAT bad
the dude plays in the post, >10 foot shots

30 points on 10/32 shooting in game 3-4

Ben Wallace was a pretty good defender, Rasheed wasn't a slouch either

[Leetonidas]

Honestly both of them are my favorite players. Ginobili came up huge but I feel Duncan was more consistent throughout the series (as always). In the end I give it to Tim because he IS the Spurs but tbh it doesn't matter either one could've won it and I wouldn't have cared, and I doubt either of them would've cared they didn't win it either.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Ben Wallace was a pretty good defender, Rasheed wasn't a slouch either

its the defenders fault a 7 foot big man shot 31% in 2 games?

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

lol this guy still making threads. well i do have to admit you did make a good case this time but still most defence cant be put into a stat. offesnively they were matched but on D duncan practically held down the paint alone. plus duncan matching ppg while having the DPOY & sheed who is a very capable defender hounding him the whole time shows that he was the best player in the finals & like someone else already stated it wasnt an unanimous decision. manu had his votes.

[Leetonidas]

its the defenders fault a 7 foot big man shot 31% in 2 games?

Despite this being a troll topic/response, c'mon guy, Ben and Rasheed tag-teaming Duncan had a lot to do with his poor shooting percentages. If Spurs fans know and believe Duncan is/was/has been our best and most valuable player, why does it matter you believe? I'm assuming you're trying to discredit Duncan but as good as Manu is/was his defense cannot even touch the defensive anchorship of Tim Duncan.

[TMTTRIO]

Duncan outright deserved Finals MVP but sometimes I wonder how far would the Spurs have gotten if Manu didn't step up and was out of his mind good and crazy during those playoffs? Would Tony or another player have really stepped up to the plate and carried our team like that? We still barely got by the Pistons.

[ElNono]

its the defenders fault a 7 foot big man shot 31% in 2 games?

You should ask Kobe, who shot 38% in 5 games a year earlier against the same defense. :lol

lol 17% from downtown

[dunkman]

I think that Manu would have won the finals MVP, however he tried to win the series in game 6 for the Spurs. The problem is that the Pistons were able to stop him. Pop made adjustments for game 7, the ball went trough Duncan, and at some point he was able to make points while the Pistons were not able to score anymore, and Larry Brown ordered to double Duncan, the Pistons defense collapsed, which also allowed Manu to score in the fourth quarter. That's not showed in your stats.

Duncan played slowed down by injuries during the playoffs, though. It was still a close call for the finals MVP and Manu was in his prime that year.

[Jose Canseco]

Considering Kobe's shooting, an argument for Gasol as 2010 Finals MVP is absolutely credible.

Gasol suffered a similar drop in shooting in the 20101 Finals as well.

Kobe
Regular season: 45.6% FG
Playoffs before the Finals: 48.3% FG
NBA Finals: 40.5% FG

Pau
Regular season: 53.6% FG
Playoffs before the Finals: 56.5% FG
NBA Finals: 47.8% FG

It doesn't excuse the poor shooting of either. But the poor shooting wasn't a factor because the two leading candidates for Finals MVP both saw a noticeable drop in their shooting efficiency. The big difference in points was enough to secure the Finals MVP for Kobe.

[Jose Canseco]

Ginobili had a very strong argument for the 2005 NBA Finals MVP. He was probably the biggest difference maker for the Spurs throughout the series as a whole. However, just like Duncan, Ginobili had a few bad games as well. It wouldn't have been injustice to give Manu the MVP, but it wasn't wrong that Duncan won it either.

Duncan did have a really big impact late in the 3rd quarter and I believe through the opening minutes of the 4th quarter of game 7. It should be noted that the Pistons doubled him a few times only because their bigs got into foul trouble and Larry Brown stubbornly went small with Tayshaun Prince at PF. That's part of the stretch where Duncan went off. Larry Brown played his line-up wrong as if he were saving Rasheed and Dice for game 8. If they fouled out, then they foul out. At least it wouldn't have been stick Prince guarding Duncan at times.

Duncan had some horrible stretches during the Finals but he was still a beast defensively and on the boards. And he scored enough in a few of the games to put up enough offense to give him the nod. It was definitely close. I probably would have given it to Ginobili too.

[rmt]

4th quarter of game 7

Manu - 11 points
Duncan - 5 points

game 7
Manu - 23 points on 13 shots
Duncan - 25 points on 27 shots

TS% of game 7
Manu - .757%
Duncan - .422%

With his unique multidimensional talent, Duncan depleted and dissected the Pistons, collecting 25 points and 11 rebounds. He was the fulcrum of virtually every key play down the stretch.

"His complete game is so sound, so fundamnetal, so unnoticed at times, because if he didn't score, people think, 'Well, he didn't do anything,'" Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "But he was incredible and he was the force that got it done for us."

"You follow your leader," Spurs guard Tony Parker said. "Timmy is the leader of the team, and he just carried us tonight."

"He put his team on his shoulders and carried them to a championship," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "That's what the great players do."

"You could tell when he caught the ball, how much more physical he was, getting in position and bumping and grinding and getting shots and making sure he got toward the rim, so that when people came at him he was in good position to open up a teammate," Popovich said.

"A lot of the shots they made, open shots, came as a result of us having a hard time guarding him," Brown said. "That's why he's such a great player."

Brown said. "If you don't have your big people with the ability to play aggressively on Duncan, you've got no shot.'

http://web.archive.org/web/20090219212308/http://www.nba.com/games/20050623/DETSAS/recap.html

[Deuce Bigalow]

^
cool, doesnt mean he was the best player in the series
manu was

[rmt]

However, just like Duncan, Ginobili had a few bad games as well.

Duncan had some horrible stretches during the Finals but he was still a beast defensively and on the boards. And he scored enough in a few of the games to put up enough offense to give him the nod. It was definitely close. I probably would have given it to Ginobili too.

game 1
TD 24/17/2
MG 26/9/2

game 2
TD 18/11/1
MG 27/3/7

game 3
TD 14/10/4
MG 7/4/0
Manu didn't show up for game 3

game 4
TD 16/16/2
MG 12/4/3

game 5
TD 26/19/2
MG 15/6/9
This is the game that so many knock TD because he missed the game-winning layup (too concerned about time IMO).

game 6
TD 21/15/1
MG 21/10/3

game 7
TD 25/11/3
MG 23/5/4

[rmt]

^
cool, doesnt mean he was the best player in the series
manu was

And what about TD anchoring the defense (seeing as this series was a defensive battle)?

TD was up against both Wallaces/Dice. Manu vs Rip/Prince.

[Deuce Bigalow]

game 1
TD 24/17/2
MG 26/9/2

game 2
TD 18/11/1
MG 27/3/7

game 3
TD 14/10/4
MG 7/4/0
Manu didn't show up for game 3

game 4
TD 16/16/2
MG 12/4/3

game 5
TD 26/19/2
MG 15/6/9
This is the game that so many knock TD because he missed the game-winning layup (too concerned about time IMO).

game 6
TD 21/15/1
MG 21/10/3

game 7
TD 25/11/3
MG 23/5/4


Duncan in games 3-4:
30 points on 10/32 shooting
he didnt show up either

[Deuce Bigalow]

And what about TD anchoring the defense (seeing as this series was a defensive battle)?

TD was up against both Wallaces/Dice. Manu vs Rip/Prince.

you sure that duncan is even the best defender on his own team?

[ElNono]

you sure that duncan is even the best defender on his own team?

He was in 2005.

[Jose Canseco]

And what about TD anchoring the defense (seeing as this series was a defensive battle)?

TD was up against both Wallaces/Dice. Manu vs Rip/Prince.

Not really a strong argument tbh. That Pistons team was a jumpshooting team who ran its offense through its guards, and guards who did not really penetrate to the lane on slashes and dribble drives. And the Pistons' frontcourt had a bad offensive player in Ben Wallace and a three point happy jumpshooter in Rasheed. Now Duncan still controlled the glass really well in the series, but anchoring the interior defense against that particular Pistons team isn't as impressive say against a team that would have Shaq or a lot of penetrating guards. Bruce Bowen on both Rip and Chauncey late in games was more of a key defensively for the Spurs that series.

[rmt]

Duncan in games 3-4:
30 points on 10/32 shooting
he didnt show up either

So his 26 rebounds, 6 assists and 4 blocks in the 2 games don't count? Only scoring matters?

[z0sa]

So his 26 rebounds, 6 assists and 4 blocks in the 2 games don't count? Only scoring matters?

:lol that's all douche has argued in like 3 threads (LMAO assists>rebounds)

he's either extremely stupid or a very bad troll, probably both

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

So his 26 rebounds, 6 assists and 4 blocks in the 2 games don't count? Only scoring matters?
hes a kobe fan. only stat that matters to him is PPG.

[SpursDynasty85]

This is a legit argument in hindsight, but if you remember from 1999 - 2006, it will always be Duncan's team. He was the backbone of those teams. Even after 2006, he didn't shoot the ball as much, but it was his unselfishness that carried the spurs to Multiple 50+ win seasons.

No matter how much you deny it, When you think of 1999-2006 Spur's team you think "Timmy's team". When you think of 2000-2003 Lakers Teams you think "Shaq". Kobe has had a great 3 year run from 2008 - 2010, but he doesn't own any of the years before that.

[DeadlyDynasty]

We keep hearing how Dirk still has a few years of his prime left. I'm here to tell you all that his prime blew by us, and we're witnessing the decline right now.

His scoring is up - great. His scoring is up only because he's taking more shots. His jumper used to be consistently great and automatic. A 4 for 18 night was a blue moon shock. Nowadays, he's just another streaky shooter who from time to time can get dialed in and never miss. Nowadays, a 4 for 18 shooting night is "Dirk's stinker of the week".

He never drives anymore, and when he does, he's almost guaranteed to miss the layup. He never had much of a post game, but at least before he could get a low post hook shot or two in every game.

His rebounding is way down, and his defense is far worse. There was a point a couple year's ago when Dirk's defense was actually pretty decent, and anybody who actually watched him on D regularly would know this. But he's right back to being the piss-poor defender he used to be, only now it's not because he's not focused, it's because physically he can't do it anymore.

This isn't meant to shit on Dirk because he can't help that his body is deteriorating. I'm sure he's working just as hard, if not harder, on his game.

This is just a wakeup call to all Mavs fans that Dirk simply isn't the superhero he used to be, that he is past his prime, and that at this point he is best served being a secondary option. And that things are only going to get worse from here for Dirk. Hopefully Mark & Donnie pull their head out of their ass and see the same thing, and do something about it (yeah, right).