When Schools Are The Police

[ElNono]

"The Washington Post has an article on school systems with their own police forces (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/in-texas-schools-a-criminal-response-to-misbehavior/2011/08/04/gIQA5EG9UJ_story.html). It focuses on Texas, which has the highest number of 'School Police Departments,' of which there are so many they have their own trade association. Highlights: 1) Houston fourth-grader stood on a stool so he could see the judge. He pleaded guilty. To a scuffle on a school bus. 2) 275,000 juvenile tickets in fiscal 2009, to students as young as 5. 3) Austin middle school student ticketed after she sprayed herself with perfume when classmates said she smelled. 4) a 17-year-old was in court after he and his girlfriend poured milk on each other. 'She was mad at me because I broke up with her,' he said. I waiting for the Alamo Heights Special Airborne Brigade and SEAL TEAM CROCKETT."

[Wild Cobra]

"The Washington Post has an article on school systems with their own police forces (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/in-texas-schools-a-criminal-response-to-misbehavior/2011/08/04/gIQA5EG9UJ_story.html). It focuses on Texas, which has the highest number of 'School Police Departments,' of which there are so many they have their own trade association. Highlights: 1) Houston fourth-grader stood on a stool so he could see the judge. He pleaded guilty. To a scuffle on a school bus. 2) 275,000 juvenile tickets in fiscal 2009, to students as young as 5. 3) Austin middle school student ticketed after she sprayed herself with perfume when classmates said she smelled. 4) a 17-year-old was in court after he and his girlfriend poured milk on each other. 'She was mad at me because I broke up with her,' he said. I waiting for the Alamo Heights Special Airborne Brigade and SEAL TEAM CROCKETT."
Is this another example where the state with the 2nd largest population has more than the state with the largest population?

Is it really that relevant?

[ElNono]

Is this another example where the state with the 2nd largest population has more than the state with the largest population?
Is it really that relevant?

Did you read the article? What are your thoughts on the subject of criminalization of student discipline?

BTW, while the article focuses on Texas, it hardly singles it out.

[Wild Cobra]

Did you read the article? What are your thoughts on the subject of criminalization of student discipline?

BTW, while the article focuses on Texas, it hardly singles it out.
I think the school systems have been going overboard in many ways. I don't like it. But an article that tries to sell a point by having to say "which has the highest number of 'School Police Departments," in the second largest state, just doesn't appeal to me.

[ElNono]

I think the school systems have been going overboard in many ways. I don't like it. But an article that tries to sell a point by having to say "which has the highest number of 'School Police Departments," in the second largest state, just doesn't appeal to me.

The linked article doesn't mention that, IIRC.

lol @ only reading what drives your confirmation bias

[Wild Cobra]

The linked article doesn't mention that, IIRC.

lol @ only reading what drives your confirmation bias
LOL...

No, I didn't read the article. It was your words that I though you were quoting from it!

I wasn't going to waste my time with it, partially for the reason I stated.

Another example of the highest number being in the 2nd most populous state rather than the first.

So fucking what...

[ElNono]

No, I didn't read the article.

That's patently obvious.


It was your words that I though you were quoting from it!

I didn't write those cliff notes either.


I wasn't going to waste my time with it, partially for the reason I stated.

Another example of the highest number being in the 2nd most populous state rather than the first.

So fucking what...

You're missing the point of the article you didn't read.

[Bender]

"...waiting for the Alamo Heights Special Airborne Brigade and SEAL TEAM CROCKETT."
the kid has got a sense of humor.

[TeyshaBlue]

LOL...

No, I didn't read the article. It was your words that I though you were quoting from it!

I wasn't going to waste my time with it, partially for the reason I stated.

Another example of the highest number being in the 2nd most populous state rather than the first.

So fucking what...

So fucking what?
Try this: If you cant be bothered to read the article, then shut the fuck up.
Simple, really.

[Winehole23]

What they're doing with the JP's in some places is official oppression. Fucking bullshit.

[boutons_deux]

Criminalizing students is part of the unstoppable police state that UCA is becoming.

Everybody's a suspect, is guilty, they just haven't caught you, yet.

[Wild Cobra]

So fucking what?
Try this: If you cant be bothered to read the article, then shut the fuck up.
Simple, really.
You mean because I didn't read the article, I cannot reply to what was still written in the post?

I responded to the words in the post idiot, not the article.

I responded to this:

It focuses on Texas, which has the highest number of 'School Police Departments,' of which there are so many they have their own trade association.
If you can't keep up, then you should shut the fuck up.

[CosmicCowboy]

Texas schools are clearly getting too much money if they can afford their own police forces.

[Wild Cobra]

Texas schools are clearly getting too much money if they can afford their own police forces.
Why's that in blue. It's a serious statement!

[Oh, Gee!!]

Texas schools are clearly getting too much money if they can afford their own police forces.

maybe they're spending what little money they have on a police force when they should be spending it on teachers and equipment and stuff

[CosmicCowboy]

Oh, it's somewhat tongue in cheek when the same ones that bitch we aren't giving the schools enough money bitch that they are spending excessively on security.

[Oh, Gee!!]

it's not contradictory to claim that schools need more money and that schools should spend what money they do get on education and not a police force.

[CosmicCowboy]

it's not contradictory to claim that schools need more money and that schools should spend what money they do get on education and not a police force.

It is when those of us that say they have enough money they just need to spend it better get skewered in here for "not carin about the chillin".

[Oh, Gee!!]

It is when those of us that say they have enough money they just need to spend it better get skewered in here for "not carin about the chillin".

if "spending it better" means intelligent design textbooks, then you should get skewered.

[CosmicCowboy]

if "spending it better" means intelligent design textbooks, then you should get skewered.

meh...more like a high school doesn't need to cost 100 million dollars and an "athletic director" doesn't need to make a quarter million a year.

[Oh, Gee!!]

meh...more like a high school doesn't need to cost 100 million dollars and an "athletic director" doesn't need to make a quarter million a year.

i'll agree with that

[Wild Cobra]

maybe they're spending what little money they have on a police force when they should be spending it on teachers and equipment and stuff
I don't know about other states, but in Oregon, teachers are paid quite well.

How much annual do they make for working 9-10 months a year?

[Wild Cobra]

it's not contradictory to claim that schools need more money and that schools should spend what money they do get on education and not a police force.
The best way to make schools work again is to bring back corporal punishment.

There's more than enough money, and no amount of money can stop disruptive kids, and those who have no form of punishment when necessary.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I don't know about other states, but in Oregon, teachers are paid quite well.

How much annual do they make for working 9-10 months a year?

how is that relevant to a discussion about whether TX schools pay too much on police forces? and spending more on teachers doesn't always mean paying teachers more. it could also mean staffing more teachers to reduce class size or adding new subjects or departments that will give students a well-rounded education.

[ElNono]

The best way to make schools work again is to bring back corporal punishment.

If you were raised with that system in place, it clearly didn't work.

[Wild Cobra]

how is that relevant to a discussion about whether TX schools pay too much on police forces? and spending more on teachers doesn't always mean paying teachers more. it could also mean staffing more teachers to reduce class size or adding new subjects or departments that will give students a well-rounded education.
Yet, the biggest problem to learning is classroom discipline.

Fix the root problems first.

[Oh, Gee!!]

The best way to make schools work again is to bring back corporal punishment.

There's more than enough money, and no amount of money can stop disruptive kids, and those who have no form of punishment when necessary.

I'm open-minded to that possibility

[Borat Sagyidev]

The best way to make schools work again is to bring back corporal punishment.

There's more than enough money, and no amount of money can stop disruptive kids, and those who have no form of punishment when necessary.

I disagree, i think the best way to make schools work again is to teach them things that not all things involve an imaginary man in the sky. If that entails corporal punishment for parent who do so, so be it.

You could bring back corporal punishment, but we'd still have fools running around talking about how dinosaur and humans were once living together in harmony.

[TeyshaBlue]

Yet, the biggest problem to learning is classroom discipline.

Fix the root problems first.

Not really. Classroom discipline is a symptom, not a cause. You're not addressing the root problem by busting kid's asses.

[TeyshaBlue]

BTW, as an ex teacher of 10 years, I see a use for corporal punishment, but at the same time, I've seen it used incredibly poorly over the years.

[ElNono]

Corporal punishment is the excuse du jour... I'm sure when they came up with this idea of cops, tickets and courts for kids they also thought it was going to work real well. Until it's abused, then you're back at the drawing board.

[cantthinkofanything]

Corporal punishment is the excuse du jour... I'm sure when they came up with this idea of cops, tickets and courts for kids they also thought it was going to work real well. Until it's abused, then you're back at the drawing board.

No punishment is going to work as long as the kids' parents don't give a shit what they do.

[ploto]

No punishment is going to work as long as the kids' parents don't give a shit what they do.


:tu. Used to be if someone got in trouble at school, he or she got in even more trouble at home. Now if a kid gets in trouble at school, the parent comes and yells at the school.

[Wild Cobra]

Not really. Classroom discipline is a symptom, not a cause. You're not addressing the root problem by busting kid's asses.
OK, the root problem is the parents not teaching their children how to behave. Is that right?

Now I stick to my original statement as for being the root problem within the school. I will maintain that if schools could use effective discipline, so many problems would go away.

[Wild Cobra]

No punishment is going to work as long as the kids' parents don't give a shit what they do.
This is true. It goes back to my remnarks in other threads that the problems are in the social groups kids grow up in. Friends, family, community...

[Wild Cobra]

:tu. Used to be if someone got in trouble at school, he or she got in even more trouble at home. Now if a kid gets in trouble at school, the parent comes and yells at the school.
Well, there are so many more examples of the parents having the right to be pissed, with these zero tolerance rules. But yes, there are parents who do cause a ruckus for the wrong things.

[Nbadan]

:tu. Used to be if someone got in trouble at school, he or she got in even more trouble at home. Now if a kid gets in trouble at school, the parent comes and yells at the school.

Which is one of the real reason they need cops in schools.....schools are not only teaching kids curriculum ....without responsible parents to set examples at home, schools teach kids how to be responsible functioning adults, and that's worth everything to society....

[Nbadan]

If the kid is acting up so much that he gets a ticket its more of a wake-up call to mom and dad that this kid needs some sort of help....its too easy for parents to ignore the kids problems otherwise and dump them on the school...

[Wild Cobra]

If the kid is acting up so much that he gets a ticket its more of a wake-up call to mom and dad that this kid needs some sort of help....its too easy for parents to ignore the kids problems otherwise and dump them on the school...
If things are that bad, shouldn't the parents be charged for child abuse?

[Nbadan]

If things are that bad, shouldn't the parents be charged for child abuse?

Ha! Are you serious? Your serious,right?

[Wild Cobra]

Ha! Are you serious? Your serious,right?
Look at lesser things that parents get charged for abuse over...

OK, maybe not abuse. How about contributing to the delinquency of a minor?

[Nbadan]

Look at lesser things that parents get charged for abuse over...

OK, maybe not abuse. How about contributing to the delinquency of a minor?

a lot of these kids are being raised by grandma and grandpa because mom and dad are hooked on drugs or in prison...now you wanna charge granny too?

although I agree that legal guardians have to be better examples for their kids, but that's a matter of adult education classes, not fines and prison...

[LnGrrrR]

WC, the anti-authoritarian, thinks that we should authorize corporal punishment for schools.

You're a weird libertarian.

[Wild Cobra]

WC, the anti-authoritarian, thinks that we should authorize corporal punishment for schools.

You're a weird libertarian.
Just because I'm not an anarchist?

[LnGrrrR]

Just because I'm not an anarchist?

No, because you're a poor libertarian. You support authority in areas where you willfully ignore the arguments against it (for instance, in this case, teachers hitting children too forcefully, teachers hitting children instead of verbally warning them, etc etc). If you support a cause, you are more than willing to assign authority to figures without thinking through the drawbacks.

You do it in other areas as well, such as torture.

Edit: In your view, anyone that doesn't support something you agree with is either an anarchist, or a socialist. Only you have the secret to giving everyone the right amount of authority they need, and you trust that everyone whom you choose to give to authority to will use it in only the most just way they can.

[Wild Cobra]

No, because you're a poor libertarian. You support authority in areas where you willfully ignore the arguments against it (for instance, in this case, teachers hitting children too forcefully, teachers hitting children instead of verbally warning them, etc etc). If you support a cause, you are more than willing to assign authority to figures without thinking through the drawbacks.

You do it in other areas as well, such as torture.

Edit: In your view, anyone that doesn't support something you agree with is either an anarchist, or a socialist. Only you have the secret to giving everyone the right amount of authority they need, and you trust that everyone whom you choose to give to authority to will use it in only the most just way they can.
LOL...

You don't even try to understand my viewpoint.

[ElNono]

lol @ you having a viewpoint