One Regular Season MVP and this Clown is the next best guy after Jordan?

[ezau]

As far as every knowledgeable basketball fan is concerned, Kobe's career was ended by JJ Barea when the Mavs swept the Fakers. :lol:lol

[LkrFan]

Psst! eazau!! MVP is a media award. :wakeup

:sleep

[midnightpulp]

Kobe's a fine player. Borderline top ten great, which is nothing to be ashamed of or scoff at. Would've loved the guy on the Spurs as Duncan's second option.

[Giuseppe]

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[midnightpulp]

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

Rings are a team accomplishment. I don't do team accomplishments when comparing individual players. And as far as the individual goes, it's still:

Duncan: 3

Glorified Latrell Spreewell: 2

[Killakobe81]

Rings are a team accomplishment. I don't do team accomplishments when comparing individual players. And as far as the individual goes, it's still:

Duncan: 3

Glorified Latrell Spreewell: 2

actually ...

2nd best SG to MJ >> than glorified Kevin Mchale :lol

[Koolaid_Man]

Kobe's a fine player. Borderline top ten great, which is nothing to be ashamed of or scoff at. Would've loved the guy on the Spurs as Duncan's second option.


how could that be possible...if you compare Kobe's first 3 titles ( the infamous 'side-kick' 3-peat) with Duncan's first 3 titles..you will find that Kobe as "second option" in LA was more effective than Duncan as first option in SA...walk with in silence for a minute midget man....pure silence...



Each succeeding year Kobe 'the 'side-kick'averaged 21.1 ; 29.4 ; & 26.6 ppg respectively in the playoffs during LA's 3 peat.

While Duncan averaged 23.2, 24.7, & 23.6 ppg respectively during the play-offs for his first 3 titles.


:lmao

[ezau]

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

Shellacked by the Mavs:lol:lol

[Baron Davιs]

in the last five times that the Mavs played against the cHeat in the Finals.

Series over, bitches:lol:lol

[joshdaboss]

Each succeeding year Kobe 'the 'side-kick'averaged 21.1 ; 29.4 ; & 26.6 ppg respectively in the playoffs during LA's 3 peat.

While Duncan averaged 23.2, 24.7, & 23.6 ppg respectively during the play-offs for his first 3 titles.


:lmao


PPG :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Giuseppe]

shellacked by the mavs:lol:lol

8

[Giuseppe]

Rings are a team accomplishment. I don't do team accomplishments when comparing individual players. And as far as the individual goes, it's still:

Duncan: 3

Glorified Latrell Spreewell: 2

Well, when it was:::

Duncan: 4

Kobe: 3

You did it.

And Daddy-O, we're doin' it now at:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

& sassafras, that's just the way it's gonna be.

Now,

Let us proceed...

[Isitjustme?]

lol thinking that calling someone "a glorified Kevin McHale" is some kind of burn just proves you know shit about basketball.

[Isitjustme?]

"He's just a glorified version of a first ballot Hall of Famer!"

Burn...

[cheguevara]

I don't know why motherfuckers keep talking shit about Bean Bryant. It's like talking shit about Marthin Luther King. The motherfuckers are long dead :lol

[Leetonidas]

Kevin McHale had some pretty sick post moves tbh

[mavs>spurs]

kobe ain't anymore the player he was tbh, duncan used to be damn good too but now hes just a role player because of aging. kobe isn't much better imho dude just doesn't accept the natural decline, dude cracks up great numbers of shots only to keep his stats looking decent. dude should learn to play w/ better efficiency like duncan does imho, a way that helps his team most

[Giuseppe]

dude should learn to play w/ better efficiency like duncan does imho, a way that helps his team most

I just hangs me hat on:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Venti Quattro]

Another Kobe vs Jordan thread...

[BlackSwordsMan]

let us proceed....
MJ 6
tired old shit bag 5

[Giuseppe]

let us proceed....
MJ 6
tired old shit bag 5

I'm a trend setter.

I set trends.

[lefty]

http://lakernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/barea-kobe-billboard-300x250.jpg
http://cdn.necolebitchie.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/vanessa-bryant-4.jpg
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/666346/118987490.jpghttp://dg.kscs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/zuleyka-rivera-1.jpg

[Venti Quattro]

let us proceed....
retired old shit bag 6
tired old shit bag 5

[ezau]

8

At least Duncan has won over Dirk in the playoffs. What about Kobe? :lol:lol

[ezau]

I just hangs me hat on:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

Swept by the Mavs:lol:lol

[Killakobe81]

Kobe is not the next best, unless you talking just SG ...

But he has been the best player SINCE MJ ...

[Giuseppe]

Swept by the Mavs:lol:lol

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Giuseppe]

At least Duncan has won over Dirk in the playoffs. What about Kobe? :lol:lol

...

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[DMC]

Kobe is not the next best, unless you talking just SG ...

But he has been the best player SINCE MJ ...
Coming from someone who's user name is Killakobe81, I don't know how much water that holds.

[Jeff Leppard]

That bucket has a hole in it.

[Ashy Larry]

Kevin McHale had some pretty sick post moves tbh

where I got alot of my moves from especially that up and under.


As far as the regular season MVP award goes, it's media driven. Kinda iffy. Really strange to think that Shaquille O'Neal has only one. That's pretty criminal.

[Ashy Larry]

At least Duncan has won over Dirk in the playoffs. What about Kobe? :lol:lol

Very true. What about head-to-head matchups? :toast


I mean based on that rational, Michael Spinks is better than Muhammad Ali because he defeated Larry Holmes and Ali didn't .........

[Killakobe81]

Coming from someone who's user name is Killakobe81, I don't know how much water that holds.

If that is the case, then about 75% of the posters upstairs have no credibilty ...

[Killakobe81]

lol thinking that calling someone "a glorified Kevin McHale" is some kind of burn just proves you know shit about basketball.

didnt say it was a "burn" my reply was meant to be stupid the fact, that you did not "get it" speaks to my intelligence, not yours. Sarcasm ...look it up.

And Mchale was great, just like Kobe and duncan. Spur fans are the ones that act like saying Kobe is better is some kind of "burn" on Timmy ...

Duncan is great just not as good as Kobe that is not an insult, just a fact. The fact that they are two of the best players ...if you that think duncan is better ...that is no insult either. You are wrong, but no insult. It's just like those that choose Bird over Magic, that is not an insult it's just not true.

[Killakobe81]

kobe ain't anymore the player he was tbh, duncan used to be damn good too but now hes just a role player because of aging. kobe isn't much better imho dude just doesn't accept the natural decline, dude cracks up great numbers of shots only to keep his stats looking decent. dude should learn to play w/ better efficiency like duncan does imho, a way that helps his team most

That style of playing sure did help against Phoenix, and Memphis ...dont think you should be using duncan or the spurs lack of playoff success as examples ... TBH.

[midnightpulp]

didnt say it was a "burn" my reply was meant to be stupid the fact, that you did not "get it" speaks to my intelligence, not yours. Sarcasm ...look it up.

And Mchale was great, just like Kobe and duncan. Spur fans are the ones that act like saying Kobe is better is some kind of "burn" on Timmy ...

Duncan is great just not as good as Kobe that is not an insult, just a fact. The fact that they are two of the best players ...if you that think duncan is better ...that is no insult either. You are wrong, but no insult. It's just like those that choose Bird over Magic, that is not an insult it's just not true.

Lol. It is not "a fact." If it was a fact, you'd be able to prove it, and you can't, since neither the stats nor the "eye test" show Kobe Bryant being the superior player to Tim Duncan.

Does Kobe have the better all around all-time regular season and playoff stats? No.

Does he have more individual hardware? No.

Is he the better defender. No. I know it's a hard comparison, since one is a big and one is a perimeter player, but throughout basketball history, big men have always had more of a defensive impact on the game, which is why Duncan is the clear choice. Any coach, GM, or armchair fan would even take a "good" defensive 7 footer over a great perimeter defender.

I don't mind it being your opinion that Kobe is a better player, but to unequivocally state that it's a "fact," a fact which you can't prove, is laughable.

[Killakobe81]

Lol. It is not "a fact." If it was a fact, you'd be able to prove it, and you can't, since neither the stats nor the "eye test" show Kobe Bryant being the superior player to Tim Duncan.

Does Kobe have the better all around all-time regular season and playoff stats? No.

Does he have more individual hardware? No.

Is he the better defender. No. I know it's a hard comparison, since one is a big and one is a perimeter player, but throughout basketball history, big men have always had more of a defensive impact on the game, which is why Duncan is the clear choice. Any coach, GM, or armchair fan would even take a "good" defensive 7 footer over a great perimeter defender.

I don't mind it being your opinion that Kobe is a better player, but to unequivocally state that it's a "fact," a fact which you can't prove, is laughable.

Obvioulsy it was opinion, nothing on here is realy a fact. Even MJ as GOAT is an "opinion" that people accept as fact. I was just getting a rise out of folk we cant prove anything for all the gaudy numbers Kobe has, duncan has better efficency numbers. Kobe has more rings but shaq is better than any of tim's team-mates ...

So there are no facts ...but to me, it's fairly obvious most places except here and on warriors world apparently ... LOL

[Killakobe81]

Lol. It is not "a fact." If it was a fact, you'd be able to prove it, and you can't, since neither the stats nor the "eye test" show Kobe Bryant being the superior player to Tim Duncan.

Does Kobe have the better all around all-time regular season and playoff stats? No.

Does he have more individual hardware? No.

Is he the better defender. No. I know it's a hard comparison, since one is a big and one is a perimeter player, but throughout basketball history, big men have always had more of a defensive impact on the game, which is why Duncan is the clear choice. Any coach, GM, or armchair fan would even take a "good" defensive 7 footer over a great perimeter defender.

I don't mind it being your opinion that Kobe is a better player, but to unequivocally state that it's a "fact," a fact which you can't prove, is laughable.

But there are stats that support Kobe, just like some support Duncan.

and LOL eye test would CLEARLY support Kobe so that to is pretty comical. An eyes test would probably support Malone over tim as well.

[midnightpulp]

But there are stats that support Kobe, just like some support Duncan.

and LOL eye test would CLEARLY support Kobe so that to is pretty comical. An eyes test would probably support Malone over tim as well.

How exactly?

The eye test is usually reserved for things like defense and playmaking and "game impact."

Duncan is a better defender than Malone and Kobe.

Duncan is a better playmaker than Malone, but behind Kobe, obviously, since guards are typically more versatile playmakers than bigs.

In his prime, Duncan was doubled and tripled on practically every possession. Karl Malone never drew the attention on the block like Duncan. Kobe receives his fair share of defensive attention, so I call this a wash.

Basketball IQ. In a vacuum, Kobe and Duncan are equals in this regard, but I give Duncan the edge because Kobe sometimes chooses the more difficult and spectacular play over the more simple and efficient one. Both are superior to Malone, anyhow.

So how does the eye test CLEARLY support Kobe and Malone? Oh, I know, cause both can fill up that PPG statistic!

[lefty]

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4
Celtic's Russell : 11

Let us proceed

[Killakobe81]

How exactly?

The eye test is usually reserved for things like defense and playmaking and "game impact."

Duncan is a better defender than Malone and Kobe.

Duncan is a better playmaker than Malone, but behind Kobe, obviously, since guards are typically more versatile playmakers than bigs.

In his prime, Duncan was doubled and tripled on practically every possession. Karl Malone never drew the attention on the block like Duncan. Kobe receives his fair share of defensive attention, so I call this a wash.

Basketball IQ. In a vacuum, Kobe and Duncan are equals in this regard, but I give Duncan the edge because Kobe sometimes chooses the more difficult and spectacular play over the more simple and efficient one. Both are superior to Malone, anyhow.

So how does the eye test CLEARLY support Kobe and Malone? Oh, I know, cause both can fill up that PPG statistic!

Hmm ...when both in their primes ...and played head to head most games ...

Kobe is the better ball handler

The more versatile defender

Better FT shooter

For his size the better rebounder

better dunker

better passer

better jumper

better midrange game

better in transition

Duncan is clearly the better post defender and scorer and had a better bank shot but Stevie Wonder, in a dark basement blindfolded at midnight could see that Kobe was the better player watch the playoffs in 1999-2002 or in 2008 mor etimes than not when going head2head Kobe has been the better player.

LOL eye test ... come on duncan is a great player but in an eye test Robinson in his prime leaps off the screen not tim. Tim does a lot of the subtle fundamental thing sthat leads to winning ball ...I dont dispute that.

But you take two neutral parties to watch the handful of playoffs between the teams and i bet most folks outside of SA will tell yoyu Kobe is the greater player ...

[DMC]

If that is the case, then about 75% of the posters upstairs have no credibilty ...
*crickets*

[DMC]

Hmm ...when both in their primes ...and played head to head most games ...

Kobe is the better ball handler

The more versatile defender

Better FT shooter

For his size the better rebounder

better dunker

better passer

better jumper

better midrange game

better in transition

Duncan is clearly the better post defender and scorer and had a better bank shot but Stevie Wonder, in a dark basement blindfolded at midnight could see that Kobe was the better player watch the playoffs in 1999-2002 or in 2008 mor etimes than not when going head2head Kobe has been the better player.

LOL eye test ... come on duncan is a great player but in an eye test Robinson in his prime leaps off the screen not tim. Tim does a lot of the subtle fundamental thing sthat leads to winning ball ...I dont dispute that.

But you take two neutral parties to watch the handful of playoffs between the teams and i bet most folks outside of SA will tell yoyu Kobe is the greater player ...

Stevie doesn't read SI. They picked Tim as the player of the decade. Guess they don't have it in braille.

[DMC]

...

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4
I saw something on TV that made me think of you and how I could possibly assist you in your pursuit of happiness.

Get some of that expanding foam from Home Depot, insert the straw attachment and stick it up your ass. Put about half a can in there. Once it expands, you might get a semi-fluff good enough for manual stimulation. Don't do it without opening a few windows first. The gas you will release will likely be toxic.

[midnightpulp]

Hmm ...when both in their primes ...and played head to head most games ...

Kobe is the better ball handler

The more versatile defender

Better FT shooter

For his size the better rebounder

better dunker

better passer

better jumper

better midrange game

better in transition

Duncan is clearly the better post defender and scorer and had a better bank shot but Stevie Wonder, in a dark basement blindfolded at midnight could see that Kobe was the better player watch the playoffs in 1999-2002 or in 2008 mor etimes than not when going head2head Kobe has been the better player.

LOL eye test ... come on duncan is a great player but in an eye test Robinson in his prime leaps off the screen not tim. Tim does a lot of the subtle fundamental thing sthat leads to winning ball ...I dont dispute that.

But you take two neutral parties to watch the handful of playoffs between the teams and i bet most folks outside of SA will tell yoyu Kobe is the greater player ...

Let's see, Spud Webb is a

better ball handler

more versatile defender

Better FT shooter

For his size the better rebounder

better dunker

better passer

better jumper

better midrange game

better in transition

than Shaquille O'Neal. Just because Kobe has more "skills," which I would expect a guard to have more of than a big, does not make him the better basketball player in a team context.

Oh, and you mean "watch the playoffs in 00-02" when Kobe was torching the likes of Danny Ferry, Steve Smith, Terry Porter, and Sean Elliott? And no, head2head playoff stats do not indicate Kobe has the better player "more times than not."

Here's their head-to-head numbers when they faced each other in the playoffs:

Duncan: 48%FG, 13rpg, 4.2apg, .73spg, 2.36bpg, 25.2ppg

Kobe: 47%fg, 5.3rpg, 4.6apg, 1.4spg, .23bpg, 27.2ppg

Sure, they split the categories 3 to 3, but Kobe homers often claim that "Kobe shit on Duncan," and in 2 of the 6 categories (rebounds and blocks), Duncan bests Kobe by 2 and 1/2 and 10 times, respectively. While Kobe only doubles up Duncan on steals.

Also, a Kobe Bryant led team has never beaten a prime Tim Duncan led team (we know Duncan wasn't in his prime in '08), while Duncan went through a prime Shaq and Kobe twice. That said, head to head matchups are meaningless to me. It's not like the two players in question were defending each other. Besides, when a team beats another team, it shouldn't be "Duncan beat Kobe" or "Jordan beat Magic," etc, etc. It should be "Team A beat Team B.

Real talk, I'm not Kobe hating. I just don't see any evidence that suggests he's been the better player than Duncan thus far. And I don't give a shit what the "analysts" and "media" say. Do I think he will eventually surpass Duncan? Probably. Duncan is pretty much a role player now, and Kobe still has 2 or 3 years left of elite level play.

[Killakobe81]

Stevie doesn't read SI. They picked Tim as the player of the decade. Guess they don't have it in braille.

Sporting News chose Kobe ... better magazine by the way I held on to that one long after I cancelled SI. SI does have better pictures though ...

[Killakobe81]

DuncanOWNSKobe

Really? how so ...please enlighten us ...TC?

head2head? Nope.

Rings? Nope.

Points? Nope.

ASG starter selections? Nope well oops I forgot he is hiding at PF so myabe yes ...

Longer peak? Nope

Better prime? Nope

[DMC]

Sporting what? but but but... bleacher report... and uhhh.... Bob's Fill Dirt and Backhoe Repair Service Annual Sports Gathering chose Kobe...

If a blind man could see it, why couldn't SI see it?

You have pomp and circumstance surrounding your hero, but Tim is in an unpopular city, on an unpopular team, and brought them from relative obscurity to a powerhouse. Kobe did nothing of the sort for LA. Shaq put them back on top and after Shaq, Pau took them there. Kobe's selfish play (Phil's words) got him the MVP with shitty shooting, but we all know Pau was the difference maker in those games.

Good player, yes of course, but no world shaker for LA. Magic did that already for them.

The fact that Tim is even compared to Kobe in this media driven market (or market driven media) is enough to cause even a casual observer to raise an eyebrow and want to look under the hood on this thing.

If Tim were in LA and Kobe in SA, Kobe would be TMac Rev 1.1 and Duncan would have 7 or 8 rings with Shaq (Shaq would have not left the team nor would Phil have quit the team).

So....

[Killakobe81]

Sporting what? but but but... bleacher report... and uhhh.... Bob's Fill Dirt and Backhoe Repair Service Annual Sports Gathering chose Kobe...

If a blind man could see it, why couldn't SI see it?

You have pomp and circumstance surrounding your hero, but Tim is in an unpopular city, on an unpopular team, and brought them from relative obscurity to a powerhouse. Kobe did nothing of the sort for LA. Good player, yes of course, but no world shaker for LA. Magic did that already for them.

The fact that Tim is even compared to Kobe in this media driven market (or market driven media) is enough to cause even a casual observer to raise an eyebrow and want to look under the hood on this thing.

If Tim were in LA and Kobe in SA, Kobe would be TMac Rev 1.1 and Duncan would have 7 or 8 rings with Shaq (Shaq would have not left the team nor would Phil have quit the team).

So....

LOL shaq and duncan on defense would be comical who gonna defend pnr?

[DMC]

Really? how so ...please enlighten us ...TC?

head2head? Nope.

Rings? Nope.

Points? Nope.

ASG starter selections? Nope well oops I forgot he is hiding at PF so myabe yes ...

Longer peak? Nope

Better prime? Nope

Duncan was never a side kick during a championship season

Kobe can attribute 5 rings to being a side kick. The years he was not a side kick, he shit the bed early on.

[Killakobe81]

I love how the woe is me small market spurs think the "flashy" SI is a better publication than SN ... which actually has more commentary from former players, coaches and scouts. Try reading one sometime ...a much better mag than SI ...real talk.

Much better football coverage than Peter King and his cronies give in SI same with bball ...

[DMC]

LOL shaq and duncan on defense would be comical who gonna defend pnr?


I don't know who pnr is.

Speak engrish son

Young TD and young Shaq on the floor at the same time = doom for any other team.

[DMC]

I love how the woe is me small market spurs think the "flashy" SI is a better publication than SN ... which actually has more commentary from former players, coaches and scouts. Try reading one sometime ...a much better mag than SI ...real talk.

Much better football coverage than Peter King and his cronies give in SI same with bball ...

That's just it though: for a small market player to get large media praise says a shit load more than the biggest market player getting the same praise.

Name one player in the last 30 years who's gotten the accolades TD has on a small market team, who's changed the fortunes of that team in such a profound manner.

[Killakobe81]

I don't know who pnr is.

Speak engrish son

Young TD and young Shaq on the floor at the same time = doom for any other team.

pnr = pick n role


No they would of never won 7 or 8 because shaq's ego is even bigger than Kobe's and he would of been crazy jealous of duncan. Nit every center is humble enough like David to cede his spotlight to a young Duncan ...ESPECIALLY Shaq.

If you think that shit would work for more than a season or two ... your ass don't know shit about shaq or basketball. Plus with duncan to do the big man work shaq would of been even more lazy on the boards and on defense ...

[Killakobe81]

Shit only time two towers resulted in a title (meaning the two best players were bigs) in the last 30 years was when the Spurs won in 1999 ...

[DMC]

pnr = pick n role

Tim and Dave did ok.


No they would of never won 7 or 8 because shaq's ego is even bigger than Kobe's and he would of been crazy jealous of duncan. Nit every center is humble enough like David to cede his spotlight to a young Duncan ...ESPECIALLY Shaq.

Nah, it was all Kobe. I will take the head coach's word over your opinion based on some internet reading.


If you think that shit would work for mor ethan a season or two ... yor ass don't lknow shit about shaq or basketball. Plus with duncan to do the big man work shaq would of ben even more lazy on the boards and on defense ...
Shaq wanted touches. Duncan aint greedy, don't give a shit about stats. Shaq would eat that up.

You seem to have this mental little snow globe that you think you can shake and see the alternate futures, but you don't know Tim and you don't know Shaq, and most of all you don't know Phil Jackson. Phil could actually lead the team if Tim was on it, and Shaq and Tim get along great.

[midnightpulp]

Really? how so ...please enlighten us ...TC?

head2head? Nope.

Rings? Nope.

Points? Nope.

ASG starter selections? Nope well oops I forgot he is hiding at PF so myabe yes ...

Longer peak? Nope

Better prime? Nope

Lol head to head. Steve Nash is 2-1 head to head against Kobe. So what? Read my reply earlier in this thread about how I feel about head to head.

Lol All Star Game selections. Yao made the all star game when he was injured for the year.

Lol points. Why didn't you list rebounds, FG%, and blocks?

More rings but yet still behind on the Finals MVP count, which is an actual individual award.

Better prime? Prove it. Let's take a look at the playoff stats, shall we? Nope, don't see anything that suggests Kobe had a better "prime." Even when he was running wild in '01, the year all you Kobe homers love to refer to, Duncan's '99 and '03 playoff campaigns statistically stomp that run.

And remember:

"There's no diplomatic way to this: Tim Duncan's playoff performances run circles around Kobe Bryant's."

[midnightpulp]

Let's see, Spud Webb is a

better ball handler

more versatile defender

Better FT shooter

For his size the better rebounder

better dunker

better passer

better jumper

better midrange game

better in transition

than Shaquille O'Neal. Just because Kobe has more "skills," which I would expect a guard to have more of than a big, does not make him the better basketball player in a team context.

Oh, and you mean "watch the playoffs in 00-02" when Kobe was torching the likes of Danny Ferry, Steve Smith, Terry Porter, and Sean Elliott? And no, head2head playoff stats do not indicate Kobe has the better player "more times than not."

Here's their head-to-head numbers when they faced each other in the playoffs:

Duncan: 48%FG, 13rpg, 4.2apg, .73spg, 2.36bpg, 25.2ppg

Kobe: 47%fg, 5.3rpg, 4.6apg, 1.4spg, .23bpg, 27.2ppg

Sure, they split the categories 3 to 3, but Kobe homers often claim that "Kobe shit on Duncan," and in 2 of the 6 categories (rebounds and blocks), Duncan bests Kobe by 2 and 1/2 and 10 times, respectively. While Kobe only doubles up Duncan on steals.

Also, a Kobe Bryant led team has never beaten a prime Tim Duncan led team (we know Duncan wasn't in his prime in '08), while Duncan went through a prime Shaq and Kobe twice. That said, head to head matchups are meaningless to me. It's not like the two players in question were defending each other. Besides, when a team beats another team, it shouldn't be "Duncan beat Kobe" or "Jordan beat Magic," etc, etc. It should be "Team A beat Team B.

Real talk, I'm not Kobe hating. I just don't see any evidence that suggests he's been the better player than Duncan thus far. And I don't give a shit what the "analysts" and "media" say. Do I think he will eventually surpass Duncan? Probably. Duncan is pretty much a role player now, and Kobe still has 2 or 3 years left of elite level play.

Would like your reply to this, Killa.

[Killakobe81]

Lol head to head. Steve Nash is 2-1 head to head against Kobe. So what? Read my reply earlier in this thread about how I feel about head to head.

Lol All Star Game selections. Yao made the all star game when he was injured for the year.

Lol points. Why didn't you list rebounds, FG%, and blocks?

More rings but yet still behind on the Finals MVP count, which is an actual individual award.

Better prime? Prove it. Let's take a look at the playoff stats, shall we? Nope, don't see anything that suggests Kobe had a better "prime." Even when he was running wild in '01, the year all you Kobe homers love to refer to, Duncan's '99 and '03 playoff campaigns statistically stomp that run.

And remember:

"There's no diplomatic way to this: Tim Duncan's playoff performances run circles around Kobe Bryant's."

My point head2head watch those games screw the points ...just watch the games ... Kobe was better.

[DMC]

Shit only time two towers resulted in a title (meaning the two best players were bigs) in the last 30 years was when the Spurs won in 1999 ...

Ok... what's your point? Dave wasn't even at full speed back then. Shaq and Tim back then would have destroyed the field. It would be easy to get shooting guards and PGs, they would want to be in LA. Who wouldn't want to play along side those bigs?

[Killakobe81]

Would like your reply to this, Killa.

Kobe is a ball hog but avaraged more assists ...

He won more series

He almost has the same FG%

Scored more points has a at least 2 game winners

But duncan was better?

LOL So Duncan was past his prime by 2008? I don't disagree but if that is the case ... so how can Duncan be player of the decade when his prime only includes 7 seasons of said decade?

while Kobe was in his prime for at least 8 of those and won titles in half the seasons. You spur fans trying so hard to argue against Kobe but now you are bringing hard evidence gainst timmy ...:nope :rollin

[DMC]

so how can Duncan be player of the decade when his prime only includes 7 seasons of said decade?



Because he's a bad motherfucker.

In his prime, he was the best in the league. That's 7 years. That equates to more than half the decade.

Who's been in their prime for 10 years? Kinda defeats the purpose of "prime", doesn't it?

[midnightpulp]

My point head2head watch those games screw the points ...just watch the games ... Kobe was better.

If you think Kobe outperformed Duncan in '99 and '03, you're out of your mind. And in '02 (yes, I know Kobe hit a game winner. Even though he shot like shit in that game, he still hit a game winner!) and '04, it was essentially a wash.

Kobe was magnificent in '01 and '08. He was a level above everybody else in those two series, just like Duncan was against the Lakers in '99 and '03.

[Killakobe81]

Because he's a bad motherfucker.

In his prime, he was the best in the league. That's 7 years. That equates to more than half the decade.

Who's been in their prime for 10 years? Kinda defeats the purpose of "prime", doesn't it?

LOL he was not the best for 7 years ...
1 season definitely
2 seasons probably
3 season strong maybe

Other than that ... LMFAO :rollin

[Killakobe81]

If you think Kobe outperformed Duncan in '99 and '03, you're out of your mind. And in '02 (yes, I know Kobe hit a game winner. Even though he shot like shit in that game, he still hit a game winner!) and '04, it was essentially a wash.

Kobe was magnificent in '01 and '08. He was a level above everybody else in those two series, just like Duncan was against the Lakers in '99 and '03.



Hey I don't wanna make it seem Im bashing Duncan so I will not continue here unless someone brings something new.

Duncan is a bad mo fo,
2nd best player of the last decade, (shaq was more dominant but faded fast)
GOAT PF ... (though really a center)

I would take him over every big I have seen EXCEPT: Hakeem and Kareem ...


SO despite Me thinking Kobe has a slight (but growing) edge on the alltime list, Duncan is a stud in my book.

[midnightpulp]

Kobe is a ball hog but avaraged more assists ...

He won more series

He almost has the same FG%

Scored more points has a at least 2 game winners

But duncan was better?

LOL So Duncan was past his prime by 2008? I don't disagree but if that is the case ... so how can Duncan be player of the decade when his prime only includes 7 seasons of said decade?

while Kobe was in his prime for at least 8 of those and won titles in half the seasons. You spur fans trying so hard to argue against Kobe but now you are bringing hard evidence gainst timmy ...:nope :rollin

When is one percent less "the same field goal" percentage? Lol.

And a guard averaged a whopping .4 more assists than a big man! Awesome! If anything, that stat should be in favor of Duncan, the whole "better for his size" retarded argument you came up with when comparing their rebounding.

"He" won more series? So he was out there playing by himself against the Spurs? In every series, even in '03, the Lakers were favored to win. So I don't see how Kobe beating the Spurs, or more accurately, the Lakers beating the Spurs, should work in favor of Kobe.

And yes, you can be the player of decade when your prime is 7 seasons, because remember:

"Tim Duncan's playoff performances run circles around Kobe Bryant's."

And this is backed up by cold hard stats, my man.

[DMC]

LOL he was not the best for 7 years ...
1 season definitely
2 seasons probably
3 season strong maybe

Other than that ... LMFAO :rollin

Guy has 2 regular season MVPs

He has 3 Finals MVPs

4 rings

Led the Spurs to being the winningest franchise in all of sports for the decade.

Tim Duncan has cemented his position as the best PF of all time.

Kobe will always be remembered for Colorado and being Shaq's sidekick, and for being another in the line of "not Jordan" players.

[midnightpulp]

Hey I don't wanna make it seem Im bashing Duncan so I will not continue here unless someone brings something new.

Duncan is a bad mo fo,
2nd best player of the last decade, (shaq was more dominant but faded fast)
GOAT PF ... (though really a center)

I would take him over every big I have seen EXCEPT: Hakeem and Kareem ...


SO despite Me thinking Kobe has a slight (but growing) edge on the alltime list, Duncan is a stud in my book.

It's cool, Killa. Just shooting the shit with you with some b-ball talk on a Friday night.

You know I've always endorsed you as a good poster, and when I do talk shit about Kobe, it's usually to irritate dumb fucks like Koolaid_Man.

[Killakobe81]

When is one percent less "the same field goal" percentage? Lol. And a guard averaged a whopping .4 more assists than a big man! Awesome! If anything, that stat should be in favor of Duncan, the whole "better for his size" retarded argument you came up with when comparing their rebounding.

"He" won more series? So he was out there playing by himself against the Spurs? In every series, even in '03, the Lakers were favored to win. So I don't see how Kobe beating the Spurs, or more accurately, the Lakers beating the Spurs, should work in favor of Kobe.

And yes, you can be the player of decade when your prime is 7 seasons, because remember:

"Tim Duncan's playoff performances run circles around Kobe Bryant's."

And this is backed up by cold hard stats, my man.

Learn to read ...

[midnightpulp]

Learn to read ...

Learn to respond to the argument in question instead of nitpicking trivial errors.

[Killakobe81]

It's cool, Killa. Just shooting the shit with you with some b-ball talk on a Friday night.

You know I've always endorsed you as a good poster, and when I do talk shit about Kobe, it's usually to irritate dumb fucks like Koolaid_Man.

All good Mid, Like i said in jest yesterday. To me the best analogy is Bird vs. Magic.

Magic has more rings but also more help (like Kobe)

Bird in his prime was more efficent, quiet less flashy (like Duncan) even though he is a shit talker like Kobe ...

Both are great you can make a case that either Kobe or Duncan was Player of the decade much like a case can be made for Bird or Magic in the 80's ...

[DMC]

All good Mid, Like i said in jest yesterday. To me the best analogy is Bird vs. Magic.

Magic has more rings but also more help (like Kobe)

Bird in his prime was more efficent, quiet less flashy (like Duncan) even though he is a shit talker like Kobe ...

Both are great you can make a case that wither Kobe or Duncan was Player of the decade much like a case can be made for Bird or Magic in the 80's ...

You could make a case for being female if you tucked your penis, but eventually the truth comes out.

Duncan is the best. That's my last offer.

[Jeff Leppard]

Don't Duncan and Bryant play two different positions and play completely different roles on their respective teams? All I know is, most people consider Duncan the best ever at his position while, unfortunately, Kobe is forever lodged behind the GOAT.


:cryDuncan isn't a power forward:cry

[ezau]

...

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

I smell skunk:lol:lol

[ezau]

didnt say it was a "burn" my reply was meant to be stupid the fact, that you did not "get it" speaks to my intelligence, not yours. Sarcasm ...look it up.

And Mchale was great, just like Kobe and duncan. Spur fans are the ones that act like saying Kobe is better is some kind of "burn" on Timmy ...

Duncan is great just not as good as Kobe that is not an insult, just a fact. The fact that they are two of the best players ...if you that think duncan is better ...that is no insult either. You are wrong, but no insult. It's just like those that choose Bird over Magic, that is not an insult it's just not true.

Good post:toast:toast

[ezau]

Sporting what? but but but... bleacher report... and uhhh.... Bob's Fill Dirt and Backhoe Repair Service Annual Sports Gathering chose Kobe...

If a blind man could see it, why couldn't SI see it?

You have pomp and circumstance surrounding your hero, but Tim is in an unpopular city, on an unpopular team, and brought them from relative obscurity to a powerhouse. Kobe did nothing of the sort for LA. Shaq put them back on top and after Shaq, Pau took them there. Kobe's selfish play (Phil's words) got him the MVP with shitty shooting, but we all know Pau was the difference maker in those games.

Good player, yes of course, but no world shaker for LA. Magic did that already for them.

The fact that Tim is even compared to Kobe in this media driven market (or market driven media) is enough to cause even a casual observer to raise an eyebrow and want to look under the hood on this thing.

If Tim were in LA and Kobe in SA, Kobe would be TMac Rev 1.1 and Duncan would have 7 or 8 rings with Shaq (Shaq would have not left the team nor would Phil have quit the team).

So....

If Duncan were in LA, Shaq would be the obvious second option:toast

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe's a fine player. Borderline top ten great, which is nothing to be ashamed of or scoff at. Would've loved the guy on the Spurs as Duncan's second option.

:lmao

kobe>duncan, TD would be #2

[Deuce Bigalow]

Guy has 2 regular season MVPs

He has 3 Finals MVPs

4 rings

Led the Spurs to being the winningest franchise in all of sports for the decade.

Tim Duncan has cemented his position as the best PF of all time.

Kobe will always be remembered for Colorado and being Shaq's sidekick, and for being another in the line of "not Jordan" players.

what? when did this happen?
:lol

and Manu was the real 2005 Finals MVP

[Nathan89]

I think it's safe to say that if the Spurs had Kobe instead of Duncan we would have never won a single title.

[Giuseppe]

^

+ it wouldn't be:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

tee, hee.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

what? when did this happen?
:lol

and Manu was the real 2005 Finals MVP

tied for most consecutive 50+ win season with 12, never missed the playoffs since entering the nba, 2nd most titles in last decade as well.

just like how gasol was the 2010 finals mvp.

now go to wikipedia & nba.com and post only ppg so you can try to make a point about kobe deserving the 2010 finals mvp.

[Giuseppe]

2nd most titles in last decade as well.

:lmao

[Deuce Bigalow]

tied for most consecutive 50+ win season with 12, never missed the playoffs since entering the nba, 2nd most titles in last decade as well.

just like how gasol was the 2010 finals mvp.

now go to wikipedia & nba.com and post only ppg so you can try to make a point about kobe deserving the 2010 finals mvp.

2010 Finals
Kobe - 28.6 ppg and 8.0 rpg
Gasol - 18.6 ppg and 11.6 rpg

Kobe and Gasol outrebounded the celtics starting 5 in game 7
gasol had more rebounds, but 8 rpg for a SG is great, and Kobe scored 70 more points in the series, deserved MVP

[Nathan89]

^

+ it wouldn't be:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

tee, hee.

So you agree.:flag:

[Deuce Bigalow]

I think it's safe to say that if the Spurs had Kobe instead of Duncan we would have never won a single title.

since the spurs actually had a team in 05-07, Spurs would win 5, maybe more with Kobe

[Nathan89]

:lmao

[DMC]

what? when did this happen?
:lol

and Manu was the real 2005 Finals MVP

On and off the court, the San Antonio Spurs stand out as the most dominant franchise of the '00s.



http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/04/best-teams-of-the-decade-business-sports-decade-teams.html



Somehow without raising much ado, Gregg Popovich (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/People/Sports+Coaches,+Team+Owners,+Execs,+Officials/NBA/Gregg+Popovich) works his 15th season, which now makes him the longest tenured coach in the NBA, never having sniffed a losing record. And Tim Duncan (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/People/Athletes/NBA/Tim+Duncan) plays his 14th season, with the Spurs owning the best winning percentage since he arrived of any team in any professional sport.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/lopresti/2011-02-17-san-antonio-spurs_N.htm




:lmao

[Deuce Bigalow]

2004-05
Kobe - 27.6 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 6.0 APG
Duncan - 20.3 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 2.7 APG

2005-06
Kobe - 35.4 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.5 APG
Duncan - 18.6 PPG, 11.0 RPG, 3.2 APG

2006-07
Kobe - 31.6 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 5.4 APG
Duncan - 20.0 PPG, 10.6 PPG, 3.4 APG

for those 3 years
steals, kobe averaged 1.5, Duncan 0.8
blocks, Kobe averaged 0.6, Duncan 2.3


thats just a 3 year strecth, Lakers would be better with Kobe instead of mediocre Gasol like Duncan

[Koolaid_Man]

since the spurs actually had a team in 05-07, Spurs would win 5, maybe more with Kobe


any nigga that plays Dungeon's and Dragons and calls himself Merlin takes a back seat to KobePERIOD! :lol

[DMC]

since the spurs actually had a team in 05-07, Spurs would win 5, maybe more with Kobe

Without Duncan, the Spurs never win one, not one.

[Deuce Bigalow]

On and off the court, the San Antonio Spurs stand out as the most dominant franchise of the '00s.



http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/04/best-teams-of-the-decade-business-sports-decade-teams.html



Somehow without raising much ado, Gregg Popovich (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/People/Sports+Coaches,+Team+Owners,+Execs,+Officials/NBA/Gregg+Popovich) works his 15th season, which now makes him the longest tenured coach in the NBA, never having sniffed a losing record. And Tim Duncan (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/People/Athletes/NBA/Tim+Duncan) plays his 14th season, with the Spurs owning the best winning percentage since he arrived of any team in any professional sport.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/lopresti/2011-02-17-san-antonio-spurs_N.htm




:lmao

Lakers
most championships
most finals
most playoff wins

Spurs
more regular season wins

:lol

[Koolaid_Man]

his gotdam name is Merlin

[Nathan89]

2004-05
Kobe - 27.6 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 6.0 APG
Duncan - 20.3 PPG, 11.3 RPG, 2.7 APG

2005-06
Kobe - 35.4 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.5 APG
Duncan - 18.6 PPG, 11.0 RPG, 3.2 APG

2006-07
Kobe - 31.6 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 5.4 APG
Duncan - 20.0 PPG, 10.6 PPG, 3.4 APG

for those 3 years
steals, kobe averaged 1.5, Duncan 0.8
blocks, Kobe averaged 0.6, Duncan 2.3


thats just a 3 year strecth, Lakers would be better with Kobe instead of mediocre Gasol like Duncan

You really don't know anything about basketball.

[DMC]

Lakers

most championships
most finals
most playoff wins
best player of the decade, best team of the decade

Stop moving the goalposts.

I was right when I said the Spurs were the winningest franchise in ALL OF SPORTS.

I never said they were the richest.

[DMC]

Led the Spurs to being the winningest franchise in all of sports for the decade.


what? when did this happen?



On and off the court, the San Antonio Spurs stand out as the most dominant franchise of the '00s.



http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/04/bes...ade-teams.html (http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/04/best-teams-of-the-decade-business-sports-decade-teams.html)



Somehow without raising much ado, Gregg Popovich (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/People/Sports+Coaches,+Team+Owners,+Execs,+Officials/NBA/Gregg+Popovich) works his 15th season, which now makes him the longest tenured coach in the NBA, never having sniffed a losing record. And Tim Duncan (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/People/Athletes/NBA/Tim+Duncan) plays his 14th season, with the Spurs owning the best winning percentage since he arrived of any team in any professional sport.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colum...io-spurs_N.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/lopresti/2011-02-17-san-antonio-spurs_N.htm)





Lakers
most championships
most finals
most playoff wins

Spurs
more regular season wins

:lol


Goalposts have been moved.

/game

[Deuce Bigalow]

Stop moving the goalposts.

I was right when I said the Spurs were the winningest franchise in ALL OF SPORTS.

I never said they were the richest.

Lakers

most championships
most finals
most finals wins
most playoff wins

you really are delusional If you think the Spurs were the team of the decade

[DMC]

Lakers

most championships
most finals
most finals wins
most playoff wins

you really are delusional If you think the Spurs were the team of the decade

You don't even think about what you're responding to, you just type in some stats and drivel and post it.

You suck as a troll. You're way too easy to defeat.

Look up these two words:

Team

Franchise


Get back to me when you do.

You see, a Tim Duncan cannot make a team "the team of the decade" because he doesn't control the spending. What he has done is help make the Spurs the Franchise of the decade, meaning they are the epitome of all over teams in pro sports, including that Hollywood fuck fest you worship.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You don't even think about what you're responding to, you just type in some stats and drivel and post it.

You suck as a troll. You're way too easy to defeat.

Look up these two words:

Team

Franchise


Get back to me when you do.

2000-2004 Lakers, shaq and kobe

3 championships
4 finals

3 championships, 4 finals > 3 championships, 3 finals

/thread

[DMC]

2000-2004 Lakers, shaq and kobe

3 championships
4 finals

3 championships, 4 finals > 3 championships, 3 finals

/thread

Shhh...

Team

Franchise

Decade

[Deuce Bigalow]

spurs never repeated one time lol and you think there the team of the deacde when the Lakers 3 peated? LOL

[DMC]

Hi I'm either a total retard or the worse troll Mouse ever made.

Shhh

Team

Franchise

Decade

[Deuce Bigalow]

it doesnt really matter what you say dude, it dosnt change the fact that the lakers had more championships, more finals, and more playoff wins in 2000-2009
its not even close

[DMC]

it doesnt really matter what you say dude, it dosnt change the fact that the lakers had more championships, more finals, and more playoff wins in 2000-2009
its not even close


Shhh

TFD

:lmao

[Giuseppe]

any nigga that plays Dungeon's and Dragons and calls himself Merlin

the tired old shit bag.

tee, hee.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in.

Many Lakers fans overrate Kobe, and many Kobe haters underrate him.

He was not a sidekick to Shaq during that 3 peat run, or at least it hasn't been proven with fact, only with opinion. Here's some fact to start with if anyone wishes to to try and finalize it, one way or the other.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5382088&postcount=73

From that example alone, the proof is Kobe was not a sidekick. Go to work Kobe lovers and haters, settle it with fact, then we can all shut up about it.

Want to know who the biggest sidekick in NBA championship history is?

Bill Russell.


The arguiment against Kobe is Shaq was the go to guy. How many times was Bill Russell the go to guy? How about none? He was primarily a defensive anchor, and any big man could have won as many titles with his stacked teams. Russell grabbed rebounds and sent an outlet pass and Cousy and Sharman ran the fast break. Havlicek and Sam Jones were no slouches either.

Here's some facts.

MJ is the greatest player in NBA history by majority opinion.
Kobe may be the best player since Jordan, again by opinion.
Duncan is probably a better player than Kobe, but it can't be proven either way, they play two different positions.
Kobe and Duncan will be gone in a few years and new players to love and hate will come along. Believe me, I can't wait. :)

[Nathan89]

Want to know who the biggest sidekick in NBA championship history is?

Bill Russell.


The arguiment against Kobe is Shaq was the go to guy. How many times was Bill Russell the go to guy? How about none? He was primarily a defensive anchor, and any big man could have won as many titles with his stacked teams. Russell grabbed rebounds and sent an outlet pass and Cousy and Sharman ran the fast break. Havlicek and Sam Jones were no slouches either.

Here's some facts.

MJ is the greatest player in NBA history by majority opinion.
Kobe may be the best player since Jordan, again by opinion.
Duncan is probably a better player than Kobe, but it can't be proven either way, they play two different positions.
Kobe and Duncan will be gone in a few years and new players to love and hate will come along. Believe me, I can't wait. :)

:rolleyes

[Venti Quattro]

5 rings, 2 Finals MVPs: more than enough to compensate for one regular season MVP. He's not done writing his career yet (okay, insert here spurfan jokes that he's done), and I fully expect him to have two more cracks at a 6th ring before he starts writing the end of his career.

Lots of people here are just butthurt that he's had such an accomplished career despite being a snitch, and having a rape case drop in his head. That's what you call hard work, determination and drive, folks.

[nevitt_&_smrek]

At least Duncan has won over Dirk in the playoffs. What about Kobe? :lol:lol

And your losing to the 8th seeded Grizzlies - so much to be proud of there.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://i49.tinypic.com/29z4nzs.jpg

[joshdaboss]

http://i49.tinypic.com/29z4nzs.jpg

How many without Shaq or Pau Gasol? ROFL

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Ask Phil Jackson if he would have rather had Duncan or Kobe on his team. I'm sure his answer will be the most efficient player of the decade, and not the SG who takes 65 shots to make 26 points.

[Venti Quattro]

Ask Phil Jackson if he would have rather had Duncan or Kobe on his team. I'm sure his answer will be the most efficient player of the decade, and not the SG who takes 65 shots to make 26 points.
He had Shaq, Bynum, Gasol, and Odom. Your argument is invalid.

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Forgot to mention in their primes, my mistake.

Btw, don't mention Bynum, Gasol, or Odom. I know you're not comparing them to Duncan, but they really are rubbish in contrast.

[namlook]

Rings are a team accomplishment. I don't do team accomplishments when comparing individual players.

So if you compare Duncan and Malone the rings mean nothing? Yeah right.

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

So if you compare Duncan and Malone the rings mean nothing? Yeah right.

If you compare Duncan and Malone, you get a superior dominant power forward, and a way above average power forward.

[ezau]

And your losing to the 8th seeded Grizzlies - so much to be proud of there.

I smell skunk.

[ezau]

Lakers

most championships
most finals
most finals wins
most playoff wins

you really are delusional If you think the Spurs were the team of the decade

Kobe and Gasol are both winless against Dirk in the playoffs. Just saying:lol:lol

[ezau]

:lmao

kobe>duncan, TD would be #2

Let Kobe win first against Dirk in the playoffs and then we'll talk.

[Venti Quattro]

:lol ezau
:lol hypocrite
:lol turncoat
:lol glory hunter
:lol bashing the Mavs to no end before they won
:lol now using the Mav card to insult the Lakers
:lol losing to an 8th seed

[Giuseppe]

Let Kobe win first against Dirk in the playoffs and then we'll talk.

Uh, uh. None of that crapola. We're talking now:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Giuseppe]

I smell skunk.

The Skunker!!!

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

since the spurs actually had a team in 05-07, Spurs would win 5, maybe more with Kobe
:lmaokobe would have won with over the hill horry, oberto, mohammed, elson, rasho. kobe couldnt do shit with brown and odom who both are better than everyone of the bigs i posted

with parker being a scoring PG he would have been useless with a ballhog like kobe. manu would have been able to play with kobe becasue hes a playmaker. bowen would have taken care of defense.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

You really don't know anything about basketball.
yea that was established about him when he first joined the site. believe it or not his first posts where worse than they are now.

[Giuseppe]

:lmaokobe would have won with over the hill horry, oberto, mohammed, elson, rasho. kobe couldnt do shit with brown and odom who both are better than everyone of the bigs i posted

with parker being a scoring PG he would have been useless with a ballhog like kobe. manu would have been able to play with kobe becasue hes a playmaker. bowen would have taken care of defense.

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

Stings, don't it?

tee, hee.

[Giuseppe]

Let us proceed...

[Ashy Larry]

Kobe and Gasol are both winless against Dirk in the playoffs. Just saying:lol:lol


Ali is winless against Holmes, so that makes Spinks greater than Ali. Pretty dumb ass theory there pal. People usually only throw in a third party when there's really no debate between the first two parties.

Lakers and Spurs have gone head-to-head eleven times: Lakers 8, Spurs 3

34-18 > 18-34


If you wanna go this route, at least use the Celtics. Just sayin' :toast

[Jelloisjigglin]

lol Kobe can't beat Dirk! Oh noesssss

[Ashy Larry]

How many without Shaq or Pau Gasol? ROFL


How many Jordan win without Pippen?

How many Magic win without Kareem?

How many Isiah win without Dumars?

How many Shaquille win without Bryant and Wade?

How many Bird win without Parish or McHale?

Erving didn't get an NBA title until Moses came.

How many Gasol win without Bryant ?

How many Robinson win without Duncan ?

How many Russell win without Havlicek and Cousy ???

You can go all day with that shit ........

[ElNono]

How many Bonner win without Oberto?

[Ashy Larry]

How many Bonner win without Oberto?

exactly

How many Magic win without Cooper .......

[nevitt_&_smrek]

How many Jordan win without Pippen?

How many Magic win without Kareem?

How many Isiah win without Dumars?

How many Shaquille win without Bryant and Wade?

How many Bird win without Parish or McHale?

Erving didn't get an NBA title until Moses came.

How many Gasol win without Bryant ?

How many Robinson win without Duncan ?

How many Russell win without Havlicek and Cousy ???

You can go all day with that shit ........

Without Parish/McHale, Bird led his team to the best record in 1980.
Erving led his team to 3 finals before Moses.
Magic led the Lakers to 63-win season & the Finals w/o Kareem (90, 91)

Of course, what the above means is that Bird, Magic, and Erving had teammates that were unheralded. But they were the best players on those teams. Robinson instantly transformed the Spurs into the realm of respectability when he joined the Spurs. 56 wins vs. 21 the year before. Shaq was also the common denominator for all of his team's successes. The scorer/wing next to him were mostly all interchangeable - sorry. He was that good.

Kobe was barely making the playoffs w/o Shaq or Gasol. Couldn't win a playoff round. It's not that he couldn't win a title. His teams weren't even close to contending, which suggests unequal partnership, so to speak.

To be fair, there's only so much a shooting guard can do, no matter how great he is as an individual. Even as great as Kareem was statistically, there was only so much even he could do. Kareem didn't even play with one all-star caliber player during his first few years with the Lakers. Didn't come close to playing with someone as good as Lamar Odom.

Full credit to Kobe for his recent repeat titles. Yes, Gasol was a big help. But Kobe won his way, those were his teams. As good as Gasol-Odom-(Bynum) were, they weren't peak Shaq.

[midnightpulp]

Without Parish/McHale, Bird led his team to the best record in 1980.
Erving led his team to 3 finals before Moses.
Magic led the Lakers to 63-win season & the Finals w/o Kareem (90, 91)

Of course, what the above means is that Bird, Magic, and Erving had teammates that were unheralded. But they were the best players on those teams. Robinson instantly transformed the Spurs into the realm of respectability when he joined the Spurs. 56 wins vs. 21 the year before. Shaq was also the common denominator for all of his team's successes. The scorer/wing next to him were mostly all interchangeable - sorry. He was that good.

Kobe was barely making the playoffs w/o Shaq or Gasol. Couldn't win a playoff round. It's not that he couldn't win a title. His teams weren't even close to contending, which suggests unequal partnership, so to speak.

To be fair, there's only so much a shooting guard can do, no matter how great he is as an individual. Even as great as Kareem was statistically, there was only so much even he could do. Kareem didn't even play with one all-star caliber player during his first few years with the Lakers. Didn't come close to playing with someone as good as Lamar Odom.

Full credit to Kobe for his recent repeat titles. Yes, Gasol was a big help. But Kobe won his way, those were his teams. As good as Gasol-Odom-(Bynum) were, they weren't peak Shaq.

:tu

[Ashy Larry]

Without Parish/McHale, Bird led his team to the best record in 1980.
Erving led his team to 3 finals before Moses.
Magic led the Lakers to 63-win season & the Finals w/o Kareem (90, 91)

Of course, what the above means is that Bird, Magic, and Erving had teammates that were unheralded. But they were the best players on those teams. Robinson instantly transformed the Spurs into the realm of respectability when he joined the Spurs. 56 wins vs. 21 the year before. Shaq was also the common denominator for all of his team's successes. The scorer/wing next to him were mostly all interchangeable - sorry. He was that good.

Kobe was barely making the playoffs w/o Shaq or Gasol. Couldn't win a playoff round. It's not that he couldn't win a title. His teams weren't even close to contending, which suggests unequal partnership, so to speak.

To be fair, there's only so much a shooting guard can do, no matter how great he is as an individual. Even as great as Kareem was statistically, there was only so much even he could do. Kareem didn't even play with one all-star caliber player during his first few years with the Lakers. Didn't come close to playing with someone as good as Lamar Odom.

Full credit to Kobe for his recent repeat titles. Yes, Gasol was a big help. But Kobe won his way, those were his teams. As good as Gasol-Odom-(Bynum) were, they weren't peak Shaq.


really solid post ......

[Nathan89]

Without Parish/McHale, Bird led his team to the best record in 1980.
Erving led his team to 3 finals before Moses.
Magic led the Lakers to 63-win season & the Finals w/o Kareem (90, 91)

Of course, what the above means is that Bird, Magic, and Erving had teammates that were unheralded. But they were the best players on those teams. Robinson instantly transformed the Spurs into the realm of respectability when he joined the Spurs. 56 wins vs. 21 the year before. Shaq was also the common denominator for all of his team's successes. The scorer/wing next to him were mostly all interchangeable - sorry. He was that good.

Kobe was barely making the playoffs w/o Shaq or Gasol. Couldn't win a playoff round. It's not that he couldn't win a title. His teams weren't even close to contending, which suggests unequal partnership, so to speak.

To be fair, there's only so much a shooting guard can do, no matter how great he is as an individual. Even as great as Kareem was statistically, there was only so much even he could do. Kareem didn't even play with one all-star caliber player during his first few years with the Lakers. Didn't come close to playing with someone as good as Lamar Odom.

Full credit to Kobe for his recent repeat titles. Yes, Gasol was a big help. But Kobe won his way, those were his teams. As good as Gasol-Odom-(Bynum) were, they weren't peak Shaq.

That's one small step for man, one giant leap for Lakerfan.

[midnightpulp]

really solid post ......

And the fact he mentioned about Kareem having subpar supporting casts with the Lakers until Magic arrived is one of the reasons I personally consider Kareem the GOAT. Give him a solid/all star perimeter player like Maravich, Gervin, David Thompson before the coke, and the Lakers win out the 70s, no question.

[Deuce Bigalow]

How many Jordan win without Pippen?

How many Magic win without Kareem?

How many Isiah win without Dumars?

How many Shaquille win without Bryant and Wade?

How many Bird win without Parish or McHale?

Erving didn't get an NBA title until Moses came.

How many Gasol win without Bryant ?

How many Robinson win without Duncan ?

How many Russell win without Havlicek and Cousy ???

You can go all day with that shit ........


How many has Duncan won without Robinson and Manu?

[lefty]

How many has Duncan won without Robinson and Manu?
How many has Kobe won without a legit big man?

[Nathan89]

How many has Duncan won without a top 10 player in the league?

4

[Giuseppe]

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Merlin: 4

[midnightpulp]

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Merlin: 4

Don Nelson.

[Giuseppe]

8

[Ashy Larry]

And the fact he mentioned about Kareem having subpar supporting casts with the Lakers until Magic arrived is one of the reasons I personally consider Kareem the GOAT. Give him a solid/all star perimeter player like Maravich, Gervin, David Thompson before the coke, and the Lakers win out the 70s, no question.

I have Cap either one or two. His resume is definitely on par with anyone's ...... he's often overlooked (funny to say) when it comes to the centers. People will go straight to Russell or Chamberlain and in some cases Shaquille and Olajuwon, but Jabbar was a beast from jump. Big O should always be in debt to him.

If he had a decent lineup around him in the 70s, I think they would have done some damage. 1977 was even a brutal year being swept by the Blazers and some thought with that team, the Lakers may have a chance.

[Ashy Larry]

How many has Kobe won without a legit big man?


How many has Mike won without a dominant small forward? We can do this all day. It really gets us nowhere.

[Deuce Bigalow]

How many has Kobe won without a legit big man?

who cares?
Has Kareem won without the GOAT PGs?
Has Magic won without a GOAT C?
hard-headed huh?

[DMC]

How many has Duncan won without Robinson and Manu?
Cheesedick argument.



Duncan won 1 without Manu and 2 without Robinson.


Duncan won 3 without Manu AND Robinson.


"but.. but... Duncan needed a big man to win"

Manu isn't a big man.


"but.. but... Manu is one of the greatest to ever play the game"

True..

We should be arguing Manu > Kobe

Tim is above that.

Cheesedick just doing what cheesedick does.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Cheesedick argument.



Duncan won 1 without Manu and 2 without Robinson.


Duncan won 3 without Manu AND Robinson.


"but.. but... Duncan needed a big man to win"

Manu isn't a big man.


"but.. but... Manu is one of the greatest to ever play the game"

True..

We should be arguing Manu > Kobe

Tim is above that.

Cheesedick just doing what cheesedick does.

:lol


Duncan won 0 without Manu and robinson

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

:rolleyes
Don't tell me you haven't seen how I have attacked the myth Bill Russell belongs as a top 10 player of all time, he doesn't. Link is in my signature and it is in Spurs fans interests to rank him lower because it moves Tim up higher.

Bill Russell joined the Celtics in 1956-57 with 3 key pieces already in place. Coach Red Auerbach, and the top 2 guards in NBA history at that time, Bob Cousy, and Bill Sharman. (Both all time NBA top 50 at 50 years players). Along with Bill came rookie, and territorial draft pick, Tom Heinsohn, another Hall of Famer.

Aierbach's first year as coach, with rookie Bob Cousy, got them into the playoffs, something they had failed to do 3 of their first 4 years of existence. They made the ECF 3 straight years, but lost, 1953-1955.

Stats:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cousybo01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sharmbi01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/heinsto01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/russebi01.html

Joining the following year was another top 50 at 50 years player, Sam Jones.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jonessa01.html

A few years later came John Havlicek, another top 50 at 50 years player:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/havlijo01.html

No team had the depth to oppose those Celtics. Mikan's Lakers might have, but George's career didn't last all that long, and he never played the Celtics in the playoffs, with or without Russell, although they came close a couple of times before Bill got there. Most of the success of that Celtics dynasty was due to Red Auerbach figuring out team basketball to utilize the depth they had. I am not even mentioning the other hall of famers that had roles on those Celtics teams. It was also an age of no free agency, you were basically stuck with the team you were on unless you sat out a year, and no one was willing to do that. A mercy trade was all you could hope for, and chances are, the Celtics didn't need new players, they had everything in place.

So, by the logic of Kobe detractors, Kobe didn't lead the 2000-2002 Lakers, Shaq did. Shaq was the main option, Kobe was number 2. Therefore Kobe is a sidekick. well, Bill Russell was never the main option in the Celtics offense, they had too many other options and many of them came in the fast break. Therefore, Bill Russell was a sidekick, and I invite anyone to debate this. Those Celtics wuld have won with any other big man, and most of you would have never heard of Bill Russell today.

If you want to see another example of how great a system Red Auerbach had, look at one other team, the 1971-72 Los Angeles Lakers. As much as many of you hate the Lakers today, they were beloved by nearly all back then, because of their constant bridesmaid status. Jerry West and Elgin Baylor were class players, and still worthy today of top 10 all time discussion, a place they once firmly held.

Ok, essentially, new Lakers coach Bill Sharman, who played and won under Auerbach, took Wilt Chamberalin and turned him into Bill Russell. Get rebounds, block shots, and toss outlet passes so Jerry West, Gail Goodrich, and Jim McMillian could run a fast break. That Lakers team scored, and scored a lot, and Chamberlain, a number one option his entire career, became a sidekick and won his second NBA title. Those Lakers set a one time NBA record of 69-13 in the regular season and won 33 consecutive games.

Check out Wilt's career stats, his last two seasons were played with Sharman as his coach, and he was a sidekick. He was good to play another 5 years at least, but he jumped to the ABA as a player coach and the old Lakers owner, Jack Kent Cooke went to court to keep him from playing. Wilt left basketball after coaching one year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html

If you want to think of Bill Russell as all that great, fine. But then you have to give Kobe his due as well, and his claimed side kick status is opinion only. The truth is, a full proof will likely show he wasn't a sidekick and I started it here:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5382088&postcount=73

[DMC]

:lol


Duncan won 0 without Manu and robinson


Duncan won 3 without Manu and Robinson.

[Giuseppe]

...but, he still trails Kobe 5-4.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Duncan won 3 without Manu and Robinson.

so?

Kobe won 5 without Shaq AND Gasol

[Nathan89]

so?

Kobe won 5 without Shaq AND Gasol

But he still hasn't won any without a top 10 player.

[Deuce Bigalow]

But he still hasn't won any without a top 10 player.

give me your top 10 in 2009 and 2010

[Nathan89]

give me your top 10 in 2009 and 2010

IMO, it's clear that Gasol was in the top 10. If you disagree with that it is you that should provide a list of 10 better players than him in 2009 and 2010.

Can't wait to see this list.

[Deuce Bigalow]

IMO, it's clear that Gasol was in the top 10. If you disagree with that it is you that should provide a list of 10 better players than him in 2009 and 2010.

Can't wait to see this list.

kobe
lebron
wade
howard
cp3
deron
melo
nash
amare
joe johnson
brandon roy
dirk

lol duncans not even top 15

[Nathan89]

12.kobe
1.lebron
2.wade
3.howard
4.cp3
5.deron
6.melo
7.nash
8.amare
9.joe johnson
10.brandon roy
11.dirk

lol duncans not even top 15

----2009------------2010
1.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Lebron better(higher TS%)
2.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)
3.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Howard better(higher TS%)
4.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)
5.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)
6.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)
7.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Nash better (higher TS%)
8.Same ( TS%)-----Amare better (higher TS%)
9.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)
10.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)
11.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)
12.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)

[Deuce Bigalow]

----2009------------2010
1.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Lebron better(higher TS%)
2.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)
3.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Howard better(higher TS%)
4.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)
5.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)
6.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)
7.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Nash better (higher TS%)
8.Same ( TS%)-----Amare better (higher TS%)
9.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)
10.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)
11.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)
12.Pau better(higher TS%)-----Pau better (higher TS%)

:lmao
lol dude

[Jelloisjigglin]

can someone please explain to me what TS% is? I honestly don't know.

[Deuce Bigalow]

can someone please explain to me what TS% is? I honestly don't know.

TS%: True Shooting Percentage - what a player's shooting percentage would be if we accounted for free throws and 3-pointers. True Shooting Percentage = (Total points x 50) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44)]

[Jelloisjigglin]

TS%: True Shooting Percentage - what a player's shooting percentage would be if we accounted for free throws and 3-pointers. True Shooting Percentage = (Total points x 50) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44)]

thanks a lot bro

[ElNono]

can someone please explain to me what TS% is? I honestly don't know.

It's the stat you use when you can't make your point with just shooting % :lol

[Venti Quattro]

can someone please explain to me what TS% is? I honestly don't know.

It's the shooting percentage of wishful thinkers

[Nathan89]

It's the shooting percentage of wishful thinkers

I only used the TS% because that's what he likes to use to decide who's better.

So in 2009 Pau was the best in the league and in 2010 Pau was the 5th best.(according to Deuce Bigalow)

:lmao Kobe can't win without a top 5 player on his team.

How many rings does Duncan have without a top 5 player?

4

How many rings does Kobe have without a top 5 player?

0

Me-"Kobe can't win without a top 10 player)
Deuce-"Show me your top 10 player for 2009 and 2010"
Me-"No you"
Deuce-" Here is 12 players"
Me-"Actually according to your TS% rating standard Pau was top 5 both years"

:lmao Deuce

[Stalin]

I only used the TS% because that's what he likes to use to decide who's better.

So in 2009 Pau was the best in the league and in 2010 Pau was the 5th best.(according to Deuce Bigalow)

:lmao Kobe can't win without a top 5 player on his team.

How many rings does Duncan have without a top 5 player?

4

How many rings does Kobe have without a top 5 player?

0

Me-"Kobe can't win without a top 10 player)
Deuce-"Show me your top 10 player for 2009 and 2010"
Me-"No you"
Deuce-" Here is 12 players"
Me-"Actually according to your TS% rating standard Pau was top 5 both years"

:lmao Deuce

nice pwnage bro, also ts is what you use, when defence doesnt favour your argument, duncans rebounding and defence > kobe beans

[Deuce Bigalow]

nice pwnage bro, also ts is what you use, when defence doesnt favour your argument, duncans rebounding and defence > kobe beans

tims defense > kobes
kobes offense >>> tims

[Deuce Bigalow]

I only used the TS% because that's what he likes to use to decide who's better.

So in 2009 Pau was the best in the league and in 2010 Pau was the 5th best.(according to Deuce Bigalow)

:lmao Kobe can't win without a top 5 player on his team.

How many rings does Duncan have without a top 5 player?

4

How many rings does Kobe have without a top 5 player?

0

Me-"Kobe can't win without a top 10 player)
Deuce-"Show me your top 10 player for 2009 and 2010"
Me-"No you"
Deuce-" Here is 12 players"
Me-"Actually according to your TS% rating standard Pau was top 5 both years"

:lmao Deuce


when a guard (manu in 05) has a way higher TS%, like 10+% over a 7 footer (duncan in 05) then it means something

[Stalin]

tims defense > kobes
kobes offense >>> tims

since efficient shooting >> chucking (lol 40% in the finals as second option)

more like

tims defense >>> kobes
kobes offense > tims

[Deuce Bigalow]

since efficient shooting >> chucking (lol 40% in the finals as second option)

more like

tims defense >>> kobes
kobes offense > tims

career TS% Regular season
Kobe - .556
Duncan - .552

career TS% Playoffs
Kobe - .542
Duncan - .550

and btw, Duncan shot below 50% in 3/4 of his Finals, for a big man lol
.419 in 2005, a career 47% finals FG%, not good for a big man

there efficiency are basically equal, but Kobe has way more points, and of course as a guard way more assists and better playmaking ability, and clutch shots made in his career
kobe offensively >>> tim offensively

[Nathan89]

when a guard (manu in 05) has a way higher TS%, like 10+% over a 7 footer (duncan in 05) then it means something


Come talk to me when Kobe can lead the team in TS% during the regular season or the playoffs during a championship year.

:lmao Comparing the 2nd best player on the team to Tim Duncan.

[Giuseppe]

Come talk to me when Kobe

You don't have to wait to come talk to Cubby. I talk to you.

I say:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Merlin: 4

[Deuce Bigalow]

Come talk to me when Kobe can lead the team in TS% during the regular season or the playoffs during a championship year.

:lmao Comparing the 2nd best player on the team to Tim Duncan.

Kobe is a 6'6" Shooting Guard
Duncan is a 7' Center-Power Forward

Kobe
2001 Playoffs - .555 TS%
2009 Playoffs - .564 TS%
2010 Playoffs - .567 TS%

Duncan
2005 Playoffs - .526 TS%
2007 playoffs - .556 TS%

2 of Kobe's championships runs are more efficient than half of Duncan's

[Nathan89]

Come talk to me when Kobe can lead the team in TS% during the regular season or the playoffs during a championship year.

:lmao Comparing the 2nd best player on the team to Tim Duncan.

[Nathan89]

Duncan is the man. Top dog on offense and defense for his entire career.

Kobe is a sidekick that can't ever lead the team in TS%.

[Giuseppe]

Duncan is the man. Top dog on offense and defense for his entire career.

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Merlin: 4

Stings, don't it?

Tougheth lucketh.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe is a 6'6" Shooting Guard
Duncan is a 7' Center-Power Forward

Kobe
2001 Playoffs - .555 TS%
2009 Playoffs - .564 TS%
2010 Playoffs - .567 TS%

Duncan
2005 Playoffs - .526 TS%
2007 playoffs - .556 TS%

2 of Kobe's championships runs are more efficient than half of Duncan's

[Deuce Bigalow]

Duncan never led the team in TS% during a championship run