My greatest power forwards of all-time list.

[midnightpulp]

1. Tim Duncan.

2. Dirk Nowitzki. Now I know many Mav hating Spur fans will scoff at this selection, but which power forward in the modern era other than Duncan has been better in the playoffs? 7th highest playoff PER all-time, [yeah, yeah, I know "lol PER."] and one of the few players to average 25 and 10 over his playoff career.

3. Charles Barkley.

4. Kevin Garnett. Although not as consistent offensively as the players above, KG always brought a superlative defense presence and a smoldering on court intensity that few players in the history of the game have ever matched. KG can be a bitch sometimes, but that's also what makes him effective. He gets in your head and annoys you, much like Rodman or Laimbeer

5. Kevin McHale. 3 titles as the second option, but on any other team outside of the Lakers and Bulls of the 80s, he would've been the first option. Great fundamentals, possessing one of the best post-games of all-time.

6. .463. Pretty much here by default by virtue of playing 75 years and stat whoring like no one's business. Should've had a ring or two, and no, the reason he doesn't have a championship is not because he had to :cry face Jordan :cry. It's because he choked.

7 through 10 could be a variety of players. Pettit, Willis Reed, Shawn Kemp. Arguments could be made for Dennis Rodman, Bob McAdoo, etc.

So there's mine. Who's yours? I think the first six are set in stone, really. No legitimate arguments can be made to put one above the other. Maybe you can bring someone like a Pettit up and place him in the sixth slot, but it would be a tough sell, considering Pettit played in much weaker era.

[ElNono]

Where's Splitter, tbh?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'd have KG over Barkley, other than that :tu

Malone is one of the most overrated players of all time

[midnightpulp]

I'd have KG over Barkley, other than that :tu

Malone is one of the most overrated players of all time

I agree. I'm seriously considering bringing up Pettit and placing him in Malone's slot. I mean, weak, midget and honky filled era or not, Pettit beat Russell's Celtics, which is a hell of lot more impressive than losing to :cry Jordan's Bulls :cry.

[The Principal]

Here's my list. Top 5 PF.

1. Fucktard Johnson
2. Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio
3. Mr. Whipple from the Charmin Commercials
4. Doc Holliday
5. Captain Caveman (tie)
5. Evil Kenevil (tie)

[ElNono]

3. Mr. Whipple from the Charmin Commercials

Underrated, IMO. Good pick.

[FkLA]

Dirk being #2 is absolutely ridiculous :lol

So yall niggas are telling me that this championship completely wipes out his numerous previous shortcomings and takes him from probably not even being in the Top 5, to being #2?

What puts him over KG, the fact that he has a Finals MVP? Because lets be honest, when you take into account both defense and offense KG played just as big of a role in the Celtics winning in 08' as Dirk did in the Mavs winning this season.

1.TD
2.Malone
3.KG
4.Barkley/Dirk...unsure.

[midnightpulp]

Dirk is not even top five. I got Webber over Dirk.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:

[Axe Murderer]

So yall niggas are telling me that this championship completely wipes out his numerous previous shortcomings and takes him from probably not even being in the Top 5, to being #2?

why wouldnt it you fat beaner?

[FkLA]

Webber is really underrated imo. He along with TD and KG were the premier PFs during the early-mid 00s, and his Kings were the Lakers and Spurs biggest competition out West. Dirk was a tier below as were his Mavs. I wouldnt put him above Dirk now, but prior to Dirk ringing this year I probably wouldve. That nigga doesnt get the credit he deserves imho. If it wasnt for David Stern he would probably have a ring during the Shakobe and Duncan era, which is really impressive.

[FkLA]

why wouldnt it you fat beaner?

Because hes been, at best, an average defender and rebounder his entire career while the players above him have excelled in those areas? I always find it hilarious that yall niggas talk smack about Spurs fans being homers, yet every single Mavfan here always conveniently overlooks that part of Dirk's game and how it stacks up against other all-time great PFs. :lol

[midnightpulp]

Hes a poor passer, and shot blocker as well. One good playoff run will never erase an entire career of blunders.

Karl Malone's playoff career was nothing but blunders, but you're on that guy's dick. Is it because Dirk is white? Or because .463 played for the Lakers one season?

[midnightpulp]

Nope, I just know you guys hate Malone.

Barkley
Duncan... since you all insist on him being a PF
Malone
KG
CWebb

Lol. Damn. I pegged for you for a Malone fanboy.

[dirk4mvp]

:lmao putting Webber over Dirk while bringing up shortcomings

[nowhereman523]

Nope, I just know you guys hate Malone.

Barkley
Duncan... since you all insist on him being a PF
Malone
KG
CWebb

Dumbest list ever

[ElNono]

To his credit, CWebb dresses really well on his TV appearances.

[Axe Murderer]

Because hes been, at best, an average defender and rebounder his entire career while the players above him have excelled in those areas? I always find it hilarious that yall niggas talk smack about Spurs fans being homers, yet every single Mavfan here always conveniently overlooks that part of Dirk's game and how it stacks up against other all-time great PFs. :lol

I also find it hilarious that you conveniently overlook Dirk's Finals MVP and how it stacks up with the all time greats after Duncan

[dirk4mvp]

To his credit, CWebb dresses really well on his TV appearances.

yeah his obvious jealousy towards Dirk when he's brought up is awesome to watch.

[JayTheClown]

Dirk is not even top five. I got Webber over Dirk.

God damn:lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Anyone who has Webber near the top 5 PFs of all time should kill himself.

[TD 21]

Webber is underrated, because of the timeout and the lack of a championship. At his best, only Duncan, O'Neal, Garnett, McGrady and Bryant, were better than him. He doesn't have the length of Duncan and Garnett and wasn't the defensive presence they were, but offensively, he was the only other big who could do virtually everything.

But longevity matters, as do accomplishments and Nowitzki has him beat on both counts, which is why I give Nowitzki the edge. I had Nowitzki as the fifth best PF of all time before the championship and I have him there after it, because he didn't suddenly became a more complete player just because he has a championship.

1. Duncan, 2. Malone, 3. Garnett, 4. Barkley, 5. Nowitzki

I don't see how anyone could rank Nowitzki ahead of Malone, Garnett or Barkley. And no one ever did up until the past few months. But now, Nowitzki is benefiting from revisionist history to nearly the extent Bryant is.

It's most inexplicable that people could say he's better than Garnett, considering they played in the same era, had their primes intersect for a large stretch of that and no one, outside of some Mavs homers, ever claimed Nowitzki was on Garnett's level, let alone above him. Now, because Nowitzki has a championship as the undisputed go-to guy on his team, that's all forgotten? Garnett is vastly superior at everything, save for range shooting.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

IMO Duncan, Dirk and KG are the clear top 3 because of length (with Duncan as the #1 and it's close between Dirk and KG). Malone and Barkley wouldn't have been nearly as dominant if they were in an era with other long, athletic power forwards. Does anyone see a 6'4" PF winning MVP in today's NBA like Barkley did in the early 90's?

[DMC]

Hey midget, I fucked my first red head last weekend. Palm Springs of all places.

http://www.raising-redheads.com/images/Red-Head-Male.jpg

He wonders why you haven't called.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

That looks like someone Cully would have tied up in his basement

[mavs>spurs]

malone was da true legend tbh the prime malone would have pwned dirk or duncan with ease. dude turned a coat tailer in his late years, however, dude joined LA for minimum which definitely counts against him imho even though he didn't achieve that goal

[ElNono]

He missed the Finals in LA because he was injured (lol no, he was washed up and hitting on little mexican girls)

[Galileo]

1. Tim Duncan.

2. Dirk Nowitzki. Now I know many Mav hating Spur fans will scoff at this selection, but which power forward in the modern era other than Duncan has been better in the playoffs? 7th highest playoff PER all-time, [yeah, yeah, I know "lol PER."] and one of the few players to average 25 and 10 over his playoff career.

3. Charles Barkley.

4. Kevin Garnett. Although not as consistent offensively as the players above, KG always brought a superlative defense presence and a smoldering on court intensity that few players in the history of the game have ever matched. KG can be a bitch sometimes, but that's also what makes him effective. He gets in your head and annoys you, much like Rodman or Laimbeer

5. Kevin McHale. 3 titles as the second option, but on any other team outside of the Lakers and Bulls of the 80s, he would've been the first option. Great fundamentals, possessing one of the best post-games of all-time.

6. .463. Pretty much here by default by virtue of playing 75 years and stat whoring like no one's business. Should've had a ring or two, and no, the reason he doesn't have a championship is not because he had to :cry face Jordan :cry. It's because he choked.

7 through 10 could be a variety of players. Pettit, Willis Reed, Shawn Kemp. Arguments could be made for Dennis Rodman, Bob McAdoo, etc.

So there's mine. Who's yours? I think the first six are set in stone, really. No legitimate arguments can be made to put one above the other. Maybe you can bring someone like a Pettit up and place him in the sixth slot, but it would be a tough sell, considering Pettit played in much weaker era.

Elvin Hayes was the greatest power forward of all time.

[Girasuck]

People still think Duncan is a PF?

:rollin

[midnightpulp]

People still think Duncan is a PF?

:rollin

People still think the only reason Malone doesn't have a ring is because :cry he had to face Jordan :cry?

:rollin

[DMC]

People still think Duncan is a PF?

:rollin



:lmao Sloan run off by Deron Williams

[Killakobe81]

Webber is underrated, because of the timeout and the lack of a championship. At his best, only Duncan, O'Neal, Garnett, McGrady and Bryant, were better than him. He doesn't have the length of Duncan and Garnett and wasn't the defensive presence they were, but offensively, he was the only other big who could do virtually everything.

But longevity matters, as do accomplishments and Nowitzki has him beat on both counts, which is why I give Nowitzki the edge. I had Nowitzki as the fifth best PF of all time before the championship and I have him there after it, because he didn't suddenly became a more complete player just because he has a championship.

1. Duncan, 2. Malone, 3. Garnett, 4. Barkley, 5. Nowitzki

I don't see how anyone could rank Nowitzki ahead of Malone, Garnett or Barkley. And no one ever did up until the past few months. But now, Nowitzki is benefiting from revisionist history to nearly the extent Bryant is.

It's most inexplicable that people could say he's better than Garnett, considering they played in the same era, had their primes intersect for a large stretch of that and no one, outside of some Mavs homers, ever claimed Nowitzki was on Garnett's level, let alone above him. Now, because Nowitzki has a championship as the undisputed go-to guy on his team, that's all forgotten? Garnett is vastly superior at everything, save for range shooting.

agree with all this Except the snarky Kobe point ....save Barkley all those guys are better defenders and all of them kill him on the boards.


but Dirk did have the most amazing shooting season (and through Finals) I have ever seen. doesnt put him over those guys ... but Mj/kobe was never as money on jumpers consistently for as long as Dirk was last season.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I don't have a list for this category, but I'm open to considering one. First, I'm old school. When I learned the game ages ago the basics said you had a center, two forwards, and two guards. Splitting the latter two positions came much later. I first starting hearing the term power forward in the 70's, and can't honestly say when I remember the terms shooting guard and point guard were used regularly. so, when I think best forward, I have to think of players like Larry Bird, Dr. J, Elgin Baylor, and even LeBron James who were/are better forwards than many on a list of power forwards.

That all said, Kevin McHale is probably at least number 2, and Bird would have 0 titles without him. McHale was always active in the paint either clearing space or grabbing boards. I don't remember all his stats, but I do know the clinching game where the Lakers finally beat the Celtics in the finals in 1985, he beasted before fouling out.

You could argue McHale would have led the Spurs to the same 4 titles Tim won, not so much other power forwards on the list.

[Lincoln]

agree with all this Except the snarky Kobe point ....save Barkley all those guys are better defenders and all of them kill him on the boards.


but Dirk did have the most amazing shooting season (and through Finals) I have ever seen. doesnt put him over those guys ... but Mj/kobe was never as money on jumpers consistently for as long as Dirk was last season.

Crofl, not to be a dirk nuthugger but the stats are there....he has been shootin like that since the 08 Hornets series bro. Take a look

[Venti Quattro]

Another ring for Dirk undisputedly cements him at #2.

[Tuddy]

Including trips to the free throw line, Malone would have got at least 20000 points from Stockton. I can't think of any post moves he had down pat and facing up with jumper's was his only way to score in iso's

[JoeTait75]

So we're still pretending Tim Duncan is a power forward and not a center?

tbh I also think Webber is underrated. Obviously he had shortcomings as far as clutch play and leadership but he also had an array of great skills- shooting, rebounding, passing. In terms of passing big men he's there with anybody.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol anyone who glorifies Webber

[Axe Murderer]

:lol anyone who glorifies Webber

I agree with JoeTait and TD 21 (for the first time ever). Although it's funny for a guy that loves to bring up Dirk's shortcomings, for TD 21 to throw out the "c'mon guys let's ignore Webber's shortcomings for a second and admire what a great player he was:madrun"

But at his absolute peak Webber was a complete post player. The problem was that his peak didn't last too long

[JamStone]

1. Duncan
2. Barkley
3. KG
4. Dirk
5. Malone

It's difficult trying to weigh different factors, like the difference between real dominance offensively versus being a better all around player. I ranked Barkley because of his dominance because he even admits now that he wasn't a good defender. But his impact on the game overall lessens the fact that he was a subpar defender, especially when you consider how big a rebounder he was.

As for KG and Dirk, I do believe that this past season puts Dirk into a new light. And I think it's a good debate between the two. I wouldn't argue too much with people who place Dirk over KG. I do think Dirk's championship is more impressive than KG's considering supporting casts. But looking overall careers, I do give the edge to KG because during his prime he was not only an outstanding defender but a very, very good offensive player. Dirk is better offensively, more clutch, and has been more consistent offensively in the playoffs. I think it's close either way.

I agree with the notion that Malone stat whored, plus he was in a perfect offensive system that was catered to him stat whoring. But there's still something to be said of longevity and sustained great production. And I don't knock him too much for a .463 FG%. The best PF of all time won a Finals MVP shooting 41.9% from the field in the Finals.

As for Chris Webber, he seems to be a polarizing guy. He might be both underrated and overrated at the same time. He's nowhere near the top 5 among PFs all time. At best, he'll be in the conversation of the top 10. That's at best. I'd have to think about it more. He did consistently put up great numbers, and did it largely for good teams. He wasn't putting up 20/10 on Clippers teams that were always 30-52. So his stats were not meaningless. He was a choker, and particularly in big games. And he would routinely get outplayed by other great PFs. But he might have been the most complete offensive PF in my lifetime. He could do everything on the offensive end. Not a great defender and for all his natural talent, he lacked intangibles to the game that sometimes means the difference between winning and losing. Some people just hate him, and I understand it. He definitely has some Dirk envy. He's a silly little man for that. But his career is more impressive than the haters depict it. I would certainly rank him ahead of a guy like Shawn Kemp, as has been mentioned.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yeah that's just the point. If you're gonna criticize Dirk for being unclutch (which is pretty stupid to call the reigning finals MVP unclutch), you shouldn't be glorifying Chris fucking Webber :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I agree with the notion that Malone stat whored, plus he was in a perfect offensive system that was catered to him stat whoring. But there's still something to be said of longevity and sustained great production. And I don't knock him too much for a .463 FG%. The best PF of all time won a Finals MVP shooting 41.9% from the field in the Finals.
Tbh the best PF of all time put up those numbers against the best defensive team in recent memory.

Duncan woulda never gotten shut down by a 37 year old D:lolnnis R:loldman

[JamStone]

Tbh the best PF of all time put up those numbers against the best defensive team in recent memory.

Duncan woulda never gotten shut down by a 37 year old D:lolnnis R:loldman

So noted on the first point.

A 34-35 year old Tim Duncan might, on the second point.

[midnightpulp]

1. Duncan
2. Barkley
3. KG
4. Dirk
5. Malone

It's difficult trying to weigh different factors, like the difference between real dominance offensively versus being a better all around player. I ranked Barkley because of his dominance because he even admits now that he wasn't a good defender. But his impact on the game overall lessens the fact that he was a subpar defender, especially when you consider how big a rebounder he was.

As for KG and Dirk, I do believe that this past season puts Dirk into a new light. And I think it's a good debate between the two. I wouldn't argue too much with people who place Dirk over KG. I do think Dirk's championship is more impressive than KG's considering supporting casts. But looking overall careers, I do give the edge to KG because during his prime he was not only an outstanding defender but a very, very good offensive player. Dirk is better offensively, more clutch, and has been more consistent offensively in the playoffs. I think it's close either way.

I agree with the notion that Malone stat whored, plus he was in a perfect offensive system that was catered to him stat whoring. But there's still something to be said of longevity and sustained great production. And I don't knock him too much for a .463 FG%. The best PF of all time won a Finals MVP shooting 41.9% from the field in the Finals.

As for Chris Webber, he seems to be a polarizing guy. He might be both underrated and overrated at the same time. He's nowhere near the top 5 among PFs all time. At best, he'll be in the conversation of the top 10. That's at best. I'd have to think about it more. He did consistently put up great numbers, and did it largely for good teams. He wasn't putting up 20/10 on Clippers teams that were always 30-52. So his stats were not meaningless. He was a choker, and particularly in big games. And he would routinely get outplayed by other great PFs. But he might have been the most complete offensive PF in my lifetime. He could do everything on the offensive end. Not a great defender and for all his natural talent, he lacked intangibles to the game that sometimes means the difference between winning and losing. Some people just hate him, and I understand it. He definitely has some Dirk envy. He's a silly little man for that. But his career is more impressive than the haters depict it. I would certainly rank him ahead of a guy like Shawn Kemp, as has been mentioned.

But that was for a single series against perhaps the best defensive front line of all-time (only defensive front line I can think of that was better were '99 Duncan and Robinson, and perhaps Rodman, Laimbeer, Mahorn), while Malone shot that over his playoff career, most of which was played in an era that lacked the long, athletic power forwards (who are basically centers) of today.

Don't disagree with anything else. Good list :tu

[NRHector]

http://www.raising-redheads.com/images/Red-Head-Male.jpg

He wonders why you haven't called.

:lol

[JamStone]

But that was for a single series against perhaps the best defensive front line of all-time (only defensive front line I can think of that was better were '99 Duncan and Robinson, and perhaps Rodman, Laimbeer, Mahorn), while Malone shot that over his playoff career, most of which was played in an era that lacked the long, athletic power forwards (who are basically centers) of today.

Don't disagree with anything else. Good list :tu

I realize that. But that one series was .419% FG. And for that playoff season, he was at .464% FG.

I'm no Karl Malone fan. I do think he's overrated. But especially towards the second half of his career, he became more and more of a jumpshooting PF, with that extended free throw line midrange game. Interestingly enough, Dirk is coincidentally a .463% FG shooter in his playoff career as well. That wasn't a criticism of Dirk for those who ranked him high. And I assume it's because he's a jumpshooter, and that has to be part of the consideration. Malone was a jumpshooter too, just not a long range threat.

[FkLA]

The Finals MVP helps alot, but like TD21 said it still doesnt magically make Dirk a more complete player. He still doesnt stack up with Duncan, KG, Malone, and Barkley when it comes to the overall impact they had on the game. Dirk is a great offensive player, the fact that hes average at best in every other facet of the game yet still is unanimously in everyone's Top 5 list is testament to just how ridiculous that niggas offensive game is. But he's still just an offensive player and tbh I cant think of any other one-dimensional player that is glorified the way Dirk is, placing him any higher than #4 is ridiculous imho.

You also have to take eras into account, I know sometimes its weak to pull the Jordan card but he really did fuck it up for alot of great players. Malone and Barkley couldnt beat him, but lets be honest Dirk wouldve struggled to do so as well. Then when Jordan retires the GOAT PF takes over the league, so Malone aside from some chokes also happened to have some bad luck playing against several Top 10 players of all-time. The 11' Mavs on the other hand, not to take anything away from them since those niggas deserve it after being the Chokericks for so long, didnt really face any great/legendary teams...it was a relatively easy road, the Lakers are clearly on the decline and the Cheat are still trying to get their shit together before they start dominating the league.

[FkLA]

Also Malone stat whored some and the system was catered towards him and Stockton, but that system worked. The Jazz made the playoffs for what, like 20+ straight years? And that team was elite for a good portion of that time too, him and Stockton perfecting the pick-and-roll was the main reason so you have to give the nigga credit for that.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Also Malone stat whored some and the system was catered towards him and Stockton, but that system worked. The Jazz made the playoffs for what, like 20+ straight years? And that team was elite for a good portion of that time too, him and Stockton perfecting the pick-and-roll was the main reason so you have to give the nigga credit for that.
I worked in a similar way that Mike D'antoni's system worked. It was great at making the playoffs and losing.

[FkLA]

I worked in a similar way that Mike D'antoni's system worked. It was great at making the playoffs and losing.

Not even close imo. Defense was a big part of Sloan's system, its not like they were simply trying to outscore teams with the pick-and-roll. Those Jazz teams played the type of style that could win it at all and wouldve been good enough in a lot of eras, just not in the GOAT's era.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Defense was a big part of Sloan's system
This is classic revisionist history. Sloan was never a great defensive coach or anything. The Jazz were an above average defensive team but never an elite defensive team. Sloan's system was offense first.

The 1998 Jazz for example had the 17th best defensive rating in the NBA:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/1998.html

[FkLA]

This is classic revisionist history. Sloan was never a great defensive coach or anything. The Jazz were an above average defensive team but never an elite defensive team. Sloan's system was offense first.

The 1998 Jazz for example had the 17th best defensive rating in the NBA:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/1998.html

Not saying that those Jazz teams were the Spurs or Pistons defensively, obviously they lacked an interior defensive presence...but defense was a part of the system. It wasnt a complete afterthought like it was with D'Antoni's Suns. Those Jazz teams were good enough defensively to win, above average is good enough to win a title (just not against the GOAT):

09' Lakers-13th opp PPG, 6th Def Rating
10' Lakers-9th opp PPG, 4th Def Rating
11' Mavs-10th opp PPG, 8th Def Rating

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It went from being a "big part" of their system to being a "part" of their system. I can see the goal posts moving already.

That retarded G.O.A.T. argument only applies for the 1997 season and 1998 season. In 1997, they had the 9th best defensive rating, and in 1998 they had the 17th best defensive rating. It's revisionist history to say Jerry Sloan ever emphasized defense. You already backtracked on your original statement.

As far as the teams you listed, those teams you listed didn't whore the pick and roll (the most gimmicky play in basketball history) to score points. They had a dominant iso scorer who could get the team big shots when they needed them. Teams like the D'antoni Suns and the Sloan Jazz always choked in the 4th quarter because they were too reliant on the pick and roll. Jerry Sloan was a glorified Mike D'antoni and nothing more. Whore the PG and PF pick and rolling to inflate your regular season win total, then fall short in the playoffs against good defensive teams capable of defending the pick and roll.

[Ashy Larry]

The first title the Jazz lost to the Bulls was expected .......

The second one was a complete choke:

Pippen - bad back
Harper - shell of himself and sick during the series
Kukoc - lol

Mike shot brutally and carried them to that title.

Jazz with home court and all that going against the Bulls and still lose. Wasn't a good performance for the Mailman and Co.

[JoeTait75]

:lol anyone who glorifies Webber

I don't think I'm "glorifying" Webber. It just seems that the first things brought up in any discussion of Webber are negative, which is a little unfair. He was a great player and the failures of the early 2000's Kings aren't 100 percent on him, not even close.

[Lincoln]

Crofl at FkLA saying the 11 mavs playoff competition wasnt anything special

They were chosen by many experts to lose every playoff series and the amount of all stars Dallas had to play was ridiculous.

Lol as much as LA sucked, they were still the 2 time defending champions, had a top 5 PF and Kobe muthafucking Bryant. OKC had two athletic all stars and Miami had 2 of the best players in the game and a solid all star in Bosh. So :lmao :lmao at FkLA

[Koolaid_Man]

Crofl at FkLA saying the 11 mavs playoff competition wasnt anything special

They were chosen by many experts to lose every playoff series and the amount of all stars Dallas had to play was ridiculous.

Lol as much as LA sucked, they were still the 2 time defending champions, had a top 5 PF and Kobe muthafucking Bryant. OKC had two athletic all stars and Miami had 2 of the best players in the game and a solid all star in Bosh. So :lmao :lmao at FkLA


:lol say it again...:lol The more Mav fan denigrate Kobe the more watered down their title...:lmao So this is welcome news Lincoln...

[FkLA]

It went from being a "big part" of their system to being a "part" of their system. I can see the goal posts moving already.

That retarded G.O.A.T. argument only applies for the 1997 season and 1998 season. In 1997, they had the 9th best defensive rating, and in 1998 they had the 17th best defensive rating. It's revisionist history to say Jerry Sloan ever emphasized defense. You already backtracked on your original statement.

As far as the teams you listed, those teams you listed didn't whore the pick and roll (the most gimmicky play in basketball history) to score points. They had a dominant iso scorer who could get the team big shots when they needed them. Teams like the D'antoni Suns and the Sloan Jazz always choked in the 4th quarter because they were too reliant on the pick and roll. Jerry Sloan was a glorified Mike D'antoni and nothing more. Whore the PG and PF pick and rolling to inflate your regular season win total, then fall short in the playoffs against good defensive teams capable of defending the pick and roll.


Defense was an emphasis. The fact that they werent a dominant defensive team doesnt change that. They lacked that dominant interior presence on D, but it was still emphasized and like you said they were above average. So comparing it to D'Antoni's system, were defense was a complete afterthought and whos teams werent just not dominant defensively but were horrible...is retarded. Those Jazz teams were good enough, they ran through the West and gave the Bulls a good fight especially in 98'. Its not like they got completely dominated like the Suns year after year, these niggas actually had a legit chance at winning. It could even be argued that they beat themselves tbh, especially in 98' like Ashy said.



Crofl at FkLA saying the 11 mavs playoff competition wasnt anything special

They were chosen by many experts to lose every playoff series and the amount of all stars Dallas had to play was ridiculous.

Lol as much as LA sucked, they were still the 2 time defending champions, had a top 5 PF and Kobe muthafucking Bryant. OKC had two athletic all stars and Miami had 2 of the best players in the game and a solid all star in Bosh. So :lmao :lmao at FkLA

My nigga MD, the fact that the Mavs werent expected to win it all doesnt change the fact that none of those teams they beat were great/legendary teams. The Lakers were the defending champs but they were clearly on the decline and they werent even that dominant to begin with, even at their peak they werent on Jordan's Bulls or even the Shaq&Kobe's Laker's level. The Cheat just werent ready yet, the Mavs and the rest of the league will be fucked once they figure their shit out.

[nowhereman523]

Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Durant, Westbrook, Kobe, Pau. 7 of the top 10/15 players in the league right there. 7 up, 7 down, many of them in or around their peak.

Sweeping an intact defending champion in the 2nd round without homecourt, destroying a young team with 2 all-nba'ers in the WCF... Being insanely clutch against the most hyped team ever with a two time MVP, the best defense in the league, and prohibitive favorite in the finals. Only one all-star on the team, the second best player on the team injured, the star prospect injured all year, a starting PG that's almost 40, a backup PG that's 5'8", having Ian Mahinmi and Brian Cardinal and Deshawn Stevenson playing important minutes in the NBA finals.

Then list 3 harder championship roads. Then take that list, crumble it up, and throw it away, because it's worthless and wrong.

[Lincoln]

Not to mention JJ fucking Barea starting at SG for the Games 4, 5, and 6

:lmao 5'8 player starting at SG in the finals

[JoeTait75]

Again, underrating Dirk's supporting cast. Look, that was a deep, smart, experienced team. Lot of very good players. Role players, yes, but good players. Dirk didn't have to do it alone and I think he'd be the first to say that.

[DMC]

Crofl at FkLA saying the 11 mavs playoff competition wasnt anything special

They were chosen by many experts to lose every playoff series and the amount of all stars Dallas had to play was ridiculous.

Lol as much as LA sucked, they were still the 2 time defending champions, had a top 5 PF and Kobe muthafucking Bryant. OKC had two athletic all stars and Miami had 2 of the best players in the game and a solid all star in Bosh. So :lmao :lmao at FkLA

They were chosen by many Mavs fans here to lose as well.

I saaaaaiiiiiiiiiidddd.

[nowhereman523]

Again, underrating Dirk's supporting cast. Look, that was a deep, smart, experienced team. Lot of very good players. Role players, yes, but good players. Dirk didn't have to do it alone and I think he'd be the first to say that.

2-7 without Dirk, including when Butler was healthy.

[JoeTait75]

2-7 without Dirk, including when Butler was healthy.

So what?

[JoeTait75]

So that team was terrible without Dirk.

a.) Every team is going to be worse off without its best player.

b.) The supporting cast is tailored around Dirk. Doesn't mean it's a bunch of scrubs.

c.) Terrible teams with one good player end up like Minnesota with Garnett, or Cleveland with LeBron, or Orlando with Dewey Howard. They don't win NBA Championships in decisive fashion.

Also, it's funny how some of you run down Dirk's supporting cast yet talk about Caron Butler like he's the second coming of Christ. My guess is if Tuff Juice had been healthy he'd have been just another member of Dirk's "shitty" supporting cast.

[JoeTait75]

We didn't win it in a decisive fashion. Every series except the lakers series was a very tough battle that could have gone both ways. We had to fight our way back into many games from behind double digits...it took a lot of heart to fight back and win all those close games. lmao "in a decisive fashion"

Dallas went 16-7, won three elimination games on the road, went 7-1 in its last eight road games, swept the two-time defending champions- including a 36-point beatdown in the elimination game- and didn't play a seventh game. I'd call that decisive. Not '83 Sixers or '91 Bulls decisive, but decisive.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

lmao @ a supporting cast that doesn't even have a borderline all star being good

[JoeTait75]

lmao @ a supporting cast that doesn't even have a borderline all star being good

Do bad supporting casts win Championships?

[Jodelo]

a.) Every team is going to be worse off without its best player.

b.) The supporting cast is tailored around Dirk. Doesn't mean it's a bunch of scrubs.

c.) Terrible teams with one good player end up like Minnesota with Garnett, or Cleveland with LeBron, or Orlando with Dewey Howard. They don't win NBA Championships in decisive fashion.

Also, it's funny how some of you run down Dirk's supporting cast yet talk about Caron Butler like he's the second coming of Christ. My guess is if Tuff Juice had been healthy he'd have been just another member of Dirk's "shitty" supporting cast.

When Butler was healthy the Mavs were shitting all over the NBA.

[JoeTait75]

When Butler was healthy the Mavs were shitting all over the NBA.

And when he wasn't healthy they won the NBA Championship.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Do bad supporting casts win Championships?
So them winning a championship does something to change the fact Dirk was the only all star level player on his team? It was one of the worst supporting casts to ever win a championship, a past-his-prime Jason Terry is arguably the worst 2nd option on a championship team of all time.

[JoeTait75]

TBH you would think that a Cleveland fan would know about shitty supporting casts..but given how this special breed of fucktard actually thinks Lebron had a good supporting cast in Cleveland it proves that you know nothing.

You want to shit on Dallas's supporting cast to pump up Dirk. I understand.

I know while I watched the Mavericks beat every team in its path on the way to the NBA Championship I was thinking, "Man, these guys really suck!"

I might be a special breed of fucktard, but it doesn't take a genius to point to what Dallas did in the playoffs and say, "Scoreboard."

[Jodelo]

If a team has to play Stevenson, Barea, Cardinal and Mahinmi, you know that the supporting cast is awful!

[Lincoln]

The _Allas Mavericks disgust me more than any other team in pro sports history. I actually relocated my family down to Port Arthur because of that team. Ever since Jason Terry punched Michael Finley below the belt, I promised my wife I'd never set foot in that trashy city again. Well, it's been 4 years since then and I'm proud to say I kept my word.

Not only that but I get to root for a team with real class, and that's the San Antonio Spurs. There's a reason we got 4 rings, and those chokers led by _Irk will never see one.

[Axe Murderer]

The Mavs supporting cast just fit well around Dirk. That was the key. Outside of Chandler and maybe Terry, I don't see anybody on the team being able to be as productive on other teams.

I said before the playoffs that they would have to play like the 95 Rockets on offense to win the title. Play through Dirk and have a 2nd man by committee with other guys benefiting from open looks.

Guys like Stevenson/Cardinal only scored when they had open looks because of the double teams on Dirk. That took the pressure off them on offense and allowed them to fit their roles on defense and play to their potential

[ElNono]

after reading the chapter and analyzing the akatsuki leader's objectives, i gotta say i'm impressed by his business model. He's not just going to go out there and pwn everyone. He's actually going to gather allies, form armies, make money, and gradually build himself up into a viable business. Eventually, because he's got his little united nations of little ninja countries backing him, the akatsuki will end up on near equal footing with any of the five great ninja villages. Kinda like how bill gates built up microsoft from the ground up and turned it into a near super monopoly with ridiculous profit.

Meanwhile, orochimaru's chilling in caves still trying to keep up a facade of power although all he really has left is one bargaining chip(sasuke), a non-existant village, and ummm...kabuto. He had a business plan too...only it was a horrible failure because of fraud and mismanagement and ended up profiting him and him alone while leaving everyone else involved to suffer horribly when it failed. And even then, he ended up getting burned by his own short-sighted planning. Kinda like how enron was pretending all was well, while in reality, they were losing billions and their leaders were dumping its stock like crazy while encouraging employees not to panic because nothing was wrong at all. Orochimaru's ambition has little chance of being achieved, because he's got people on his ass already, little actual means to achieving it besides taking over sasuke(hey, even enron had a last grasp of possibly surviving before ultimately being shutdown)...but then what? He's still going to have people on his ass and it's just him and kabuto...and i suppose any sound that survived the invasion of konoha.

So what's my point?

Akatsuki can realistically achieve their goal because they seem to have sound strategy and a leader with a good head on their shoulders. I'm sure they'll build themselves up to the point where the goal is feasible and they're actually in high standing.

Meanwhile, i easily see orochimaru ending up like enron's ceo kenneth lay...

...dying alone on some mountain.

Sorry, if no one understands any of this crap. I just really liked that business model the al came up with.

[Lincoln]

¿

[Lincoln]

(^¿^)

[Venti Quattro]

(^¿^)

crofl

[FkLA]

Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Durant, Westbrook, Kobe, Pau. 7 of the top 10/15 players in the league right there. 7 up, 7 down, many of them in or around their peak.

Sweeping an intact defending champion in the 2nd round without homecourt, destroying a young team with 2 all-nba'ers in the WCF... Being insanely clutch against the most hyped team ever with a two time MVP, the best defense in the league, and prohibitive favorite in the finals. Only one all-star on the team, the second best player on the team injured, the star prospect injured all year, a starting PG that's almost 40, a backup PG that's 5'8", having Ian Mahinmi and Brian Cardinal and Deshawn Stevenson playing important minutes in the NBA finals.

Then list 3 harder championship roads. Then take that list, crumble it up, and throw it away, because it's worthless and wrong.

Which of those teams were legendary/great teams, did any of those teams compare to Jordan's Bulls that Barkley/Malone faltered against? If so which one?Thats my only point noone is saying the Mavs had an easy road you fucking homer, just that it was easier than what Malone/Barkley had to go through during their era. Only a complete imbecile full of homerism would claim that this era of basketball is more competitive than the 90s.

As far as supporting casts go, Jason Terry averaged 18 ppg on 48% shooting. People like to look at the fact that hes not a big name 2nd option instead of simply looking at his performance, which was very respectable for a 2nd option. The rest of the guys hit their shots as well...Dirk certainly made it easier for them by getting them open looks, but those niggas still had to hit those big shots and they did. Defensively, Dirk was the worst defender in that starting line-up. He had alot of help defensively, Dirk was great offensively but that nigga doesnt finally win one without the defensive effort of the rest of the guys. This whole notion that Dirk did it alone that yall homers try to spin is ridiculous...notice how almost any other non-Mav fan is able to see that :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

no way Mchale is better than Malone, other than that the list isnt bad
not in order, Duncan, KG, Dirk, Malone, and Petitt are top 5 PF alltime

[Killakobe81]

Dallas had a great supporting cast. Kinda like an offensive version of the 2004 Pistons. Dirk had one of the best shooting seasons I hve ever seen. anytime he shot regular season, playoffs are Finals I thought it was going in.

But considering they had the #2 highest payroll to act like it was Dirk, Terry and Tyson and some scrubs ...is pretty asinine. Marion, Butler, Kidd though past their peaks were legit all-stars at one point in their careers.

But someone made a great point before last season KG would get the nod over dirk ...so last season shouldnt make us overreact. that being said i love Dirk's game and think he took way to much heat for the playoff flops. Let's not overrate him, but give him the respect he deserved all along. Bening a champion secures him a spot ...amonmg the alltime great Pf's . Like Malone he still would be great without the ring ...but having one nudges jhim up just a bit ...but let's not get crazy.

[LnGrrrR]

I dont see why Mavs fans shit on Barea. He played damn well in the playoffs, and exposed the fact that Derek Fisher is actually 70 years old.

[Ice009]

I realize that. But that one series was .419% FG. And for that playoff season, he was at .464% FG.

If you recall Tim badly sprained his ankle about a month before the regular season ended by landing on Rasheed's foot in a regular season game. When the playoffs started I don't think his ankle was anywhere near 100%, then against the Sonics he sprained the other one in game 6 of that series, so going into the finals he might have been playing on two bad ankles. I really think Tim would have done better and wrecked everyone if he went in closer to 100% for the whole playoffs.

Anyway, I was ecstatic to get the win against the Pistons considering their frontline was one of the best defensively that I've seen, but I take those ankle sprains into consideration during those playoffs, because he was really playing great before spraining that one in that regular season game against the Pistons, which also caused him to miss a month of game time before entering the playoffs. I personally think his overall FG% was lower for the whole playoffs because his ankles weren't in great shape. He also wasn't in the best game shape possible and fortunately Manu was able to beast until Tim was able to adjust.

[Deuce Bigalow]

If you recall Tim badly sprained his ankle about a month before the regular season ended by landing on Rasheed's foot in a regular season game. When the playoffs started I don't think his ankle was anywhere near 100%, then against the Sonics he sprained the other one in game 6 of that series, so going into the finals he might have been playing on two bad ankles. I really think Tim would have done better and wrecked everyone if he went in closer to 100% for the whole playoffs.

Anyway, I was ecstatic to get the win against the Pistons considering their frontline was one of the best defensively that I've seen, but I take those ankle sprains into consideration during those playoffs, because he was really playing great before spraining that one in that regular season game against the Pistons, which also caused him to miss a month of game time before entering the playoffs. I personally think his overall FG% was lower for the whole playoffs because his ankles weren't in great shape. He also wasn't in the best game shape possible and fortunately Manu was able to beast until Tim was able to adjust.

injuries is your excuse?

kobe was banged up every postseason in 2008-2010 and still had a higher TS% and he is a 6'6" SG

[JoeTait75]

I dont see why Mavs fans shit on Barea. He played damn well in the playoffs, and exposed the fact that Derek Fisher is actually 70 years old.

Because apparently it's an insult to Dirk Nowitski to admit that there are other good players on the Dallas Mavericks.

[dirk4mvp]

Barea played decent enough at times in the playoffs, but for posters to say him being anything other than complete dogshit for the entire regular season is revisionist history at it's best. And let's not act like he didn't blow several point blank layups throughout the whole playoff run.

And FkLA is still sounding like a jealous faggot several months after 8 and the Mavs ringing. What a surprise :wow

[Nathan89]

Dallas had a great supporting cast. Kinda like an offensive version of the 2004 Pistons. Dirk had one of the best shooting seasons I hve ever seen. anytime he shot regular season, playoffs are Finals I thought it was going in.

But considering they had the #2 highest payroll to act like it was Dirk, Terry and Tyson and some scrubs ...is pretty asinine. Marion, Butler, Kidd though past their peaks were legit all-stars at one point in their careers.

But someone made a great point before last season KG would get the nod over dirk ...so last season shouldnt make us overreact. that being said i love Dirk's game and think he took way to much heat for the playoff flops. Let's not overrate him, but give him the respect he deserved all along. Bening a champion secures him a spot ...amonmg the alltime great Pf's . Like Malone he still would be great without the ring ...but having one nudges jhim up just a bit ...but let's not get crazy.

Meanwhile Lakers always have the top payroll and cough...cough some people want to act like Kobe is as good as Duncan.

Also Dallas had a lot of injuries that effectively eliminated 20+million of the payroll.

[Nathan89]

Dirk>Garnett, IMO. I'm not going to compare Dirk to players I haven't seen much of.

[Nathan89]

injuries is your excuse?

kobe was banged up every postseason in 2008-2010 and still had a higher TS% and he is a 6'6" SG

Hey everybody all injuries are the same.

[Ice009]

injuries is your excuse?

kobe was banged up every postseason in 2008-2010 and still had a higher TS% and he is a 6'6" SG

Yep a finger injury is a lot worse a bad ankle sprain, especially for the premier pivot man in the NBA that anchors both the offense and defense of his team. A guy that relies on his post moves to dominate would not be affected much by a badly sprained ankle. A guy who has a bigger frame to carry around, a guy who has to dominate on both offense and defense would not be affected by an ankle sprain at all, let alone an ankle sprain on each foot. Any and all injuries are the same, and they should never be bought up, right?

Yep, Kobe's finger injuries are exactly the same. Everyone on the planet knows about them, yet hardly anyone recalls Tim was injured going into those playoffs. It's funny that Kobe says he doesn't make excuses for injuries, but everyone knows about nearly every injury he's had the last few years.

JamStone mentioned field goal percentage and you bring up Kobe, who is average in that area when compared to some of the best SGs of all time.

[badfish22]

And FkLA is still sounding like a jealous faggot several months after 8 and the Mavs ringing. What a surprise :wow



seeing dallas win one would scar me for life especially the same yr we suffered 8

[joshdaboss]

Nowitzki over Garnett, let alone Malone? :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yep a finger injury is a lot worse a bad ankle sprain, especially for the premier pivot man in the NBA that anchors both the offense and defense of his team. A guy that relies on his post moves to dominate would not be affected much by a badly sprained ankle. A guy who has a bigger frame to carry around, a guy who has to dominate on both offense and defense would not be affected by an ankle sprain at all, let alone an ankle sprain on each foot. Any and all injuries are the same, and they should never be bought up, right?

Yep, Kobe's finger injuries are exactly the same. Everyone on the planet knows about them, yet hardly anyone recalls Tim was injured going into those playoffs. It's funny that Kobe says he doesn't make excuses for injuries, but everyone knows about nearly every injury he's had the last few years.

JamStone mentioned field goal percentage and you bring up Kobe, who is average in that area when compared to some of the best SGs of all time.

Kobe's knee has been banged up, especially in 2010 where he had it drained 3 times during the playoffs

and a finger injury for a perimeter player is big, and a knee injury for a player over 30 is big too

duncan was a 22/12 guy, lets not overrate him

[FkLA]

Why would I be jealous? :lol

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0s3TpeQWY10/TbRbnVv-kYI/AAAAAAAAABg/lMQ1nB7YKjA/s1600/Tim%252520Duncan%252520banners.jpg

[FkLA]

And what exactly about any of my posts in this thread are a display of jealousy? Leave it to Mav homers to get offended when someone ranks Dirk as the 4th-5th best PF of al-time.

I guess in order to stop being jealous I need to rank Dirk 2nd, say he had absolutely no help this year, and that the team's the Mavs got past this season were on the level of MJ's Bulls that Malone & Barkley faltered against. God damn you homers crack me up :lol

cue the 'youre just a butthurt fat beaner' go-to response...

[Venti Quattro]

Why would I be jealous? :lol

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0s3TpeQWY10/TbRbnVv-kYI/AAAAAAAAABg/lMQ1nB7YKjA/s1600/Tim%252520Duncan%252520banners.jpg

:lol U scarred

[dirk4mvp]

Why would I be jealous? :lol

zDHjhwUV2kQ

O3ahGXemoMk

[Killakobe81]

Not sure who it was that said MCHale is #2 and could do what Duncan did, is seriously overstating Mchale and underrating Tim's imprtance to the Spurs.

McHale's post moves are even better than Duncan's great ones, but except for Free throws and maybe mid range jumpers I can not think of ANYTHING else that Mchale does on the same level as Duncan. Neither could guard a swift power forward ...and though Mchale was a Malone level type solid post defender duncan has been ne of the best help defenders in teh post over the past 30 years. That is why Lebron, kobe etc have dunked on his ass so much ...but that same efoort is a big part of the 4 titles the Spurs have. don't get me wrong Mchale was great and you are right Celts needed him to win those rings ...
But to say Mchale could of been duncan ...doubtful. if you read Simmons book on basketball ...Bird expressed some frustration that Kevin did not have the drive to max out his talent. Mchale said he did not have the personality to shoot alone in a gym maniacally right after a tough loss or a win. IF the Celts won Kevein would rather enjoy a beer. Duncan, Kobe, MJ they have that drive the talented sidekicks like Worthy, Robinson and Mchale do not.

[Jodelo]

:depressed:depressed:depressed

[FkLA]

are those youtube vids somehow supposed to prove that Dirk is the 2nd best PF of all-time, that Dirk's supporting cast was complete shit, and that the four teams they beat on their way to a title were on the level of Jordan's Bulls??

Mav homers are hilarious :lol

[dirk4mvp]

lol scarred for life

[FkLA]

lol homers cant answer any of my questions :lol

1.is dirk the undisputed 2nd best PF of all-time?
2.was his supporting cast complete shit?
3.were any of the teams they beat on the level of jordan's bulls?

[Jodelo]

1. Yes
2. They played well but JJB, Stevenson, Cardinal and Mahinmi are scrubs
3. No

Still, everyone expected them to lose every series, and they won against teams with multiple all-stars (expect Portland), so yeah they had a tough road.

[LkrFan]

I didn't read this whole thread, but I got some trivia for y'all...

Name the only player in NBA history that had 8 all stars on his team and failed to win a gold medal for our country. :downspin:

[Ice009]

I didn't read this whole thread, but I got some trivia for y'all...

Name the only player in NBA history that had 8 all stars on his team and failed to win a gold medal for our country. :downspin:

How about you name all the pussies that pulled out of the team because they were scared to go. KG was one of them and Kobe was probably too scared to even put in his name, let alone go.

[LkrFan]

How about you name all the pussies that pulled out of the team because they were scared to go. KG was one of them and Kobe was probably too scared to even put in his name, let alone go.

Scared of playing. Are you serious? TD had 8 all stars on his team. 8!! How much more help does a guy need? :lol

By comparison, Kobe had one all star on his team and won back-to-back NBA championships (without Shaq BTW :toast). Yet he played with some of the same all stars TD had and won gold. :lol

[Ice009]

Scared of playing. Are you serious? TD had 8 all stars on his team. 8!! How much more help does a guy need? :lol

By comparison, Kobe had one all star on his team and won back-to-back NBA championships (without Shaq BTW :toast). Yet he played with some of the same all stars TD had and won gold. :lol

Yeah Richard Jefferson, Stephon Marbury, Allen Iverson in the starting lineup. Those are some real winners TD played with.

I seem to recall Team USA always outplaying the other team when TD was on the court, unfortunately they got stomped when TD was on the bench, and he was on the bench way too much with foul trouble. Don't know what he did to piss off the refs over there.

A lot of players skipped out on the team because they were worried about their safety and security in Athens. The same players that played the year before pulled out of the Olympics, so yes they were scared. A few came up with BS excuses, but make no mistake they were scared.

[LkrFan]

Yeah Richard Jefferson, Stephon Marbury, Allen Iverson in the starting lineup. Those are some real winners TD played with.

I seem to recall Team USA always outplaying the other team when TD was on the court, unfortunately they got stomped when TD was on the bench, and he was on the bench way too much with foul trouble. Don't know what he did to piss off the refs over there.

A lot of players skipped out on the team because they were worried about their safety and security in Athens. The same players that played the year before pulled out of the Olympics, so yes they were scared. A few came up with BS excuses, but make no mistake they were scared.

That year TD was not a tired old shit bag (yet). He should have played the whole game. But then again, FIBA refs aren't paid to cater to him: hence the "foul trouble" :lol

Riddle me this: how many gold medals does LO have, how many minutes did he log, and what position did he play when he won a gold medal for our country? I seem to recall him logging a ton of minutes for team USA. Are you saying LO > TD? Better yet: would Pop trade TD for LO right now? I bet he would if the salaries matched! :downspin:

[Axe Murderer]

lol homers cant answer any of my questions :lol

1.is dirk the undisputed 2nd best PF of all-time?
2.was his supporting cast complete shit?
3.were any of the teams they beat on the level of jordan's bulls?

scarred for life over a basketball team :lmao

[Ice009]

That year TD was not a tired old shit bag (yet). He should have played the whole game. But then again, FIBA refs aren't paid to cater to him: hence the "foul trouble" :lol

Riddle me this: how many gold medals does LO have, how many minutes did he log, and what position did he play when he won a gold medal for our country? I seem to recall him logging a ton of minutes for team USA. Are you saying LO > TD? Better yet: would Pop trade TD for LO right now? I bet he would if the salaries matched! :downspin:

I wouldn't trade Tim Duncan for Kobe Bryant. Certainly not then and not now either. Thanks.

[FkLA]

1. Yes

:lmao:lmao:lmao


2. They played well but JJB, Stevenson, Cardinal and Mahinmi are scrubs

JJ didnt play like a scrub, stop looking at names and start looking at performance. Stevenson played well as well...but I love how you bring up less important end of the bench guys to make your point, what a homer :lol

Is Chandler a scrub?Kidd?Terry?Marion? Was that entire $90 mill payroll full of scrubs other than Dirk?


3. No

Still, everyone expected them to lose every series, and they won against teams with multiple all-stars (expect Portland), so yeah they had a tough road.

No championship road is easy homer, obviously there will be good teams. I never said the Mavs played scrub teams, I said they didnt play any legendary/dominant teams that will be remembered years from now like Jordan's Bulls that Malone & Barkley faltered against. The Cheat might be that someday, but theyre not ready yet.

Also who expected them to lose every series? Yall niggas exaggerate shit so much to prop up Dirk lol, I hate the Mavs and even I expected them to get past both Portland and OKC. And again the unlikeliness of the Mavs championship has no correlation to how good Portland, LA, OKC, and the Cheat were.

[nevitt_&_smrek]

:lmao:lmao:lmao



JJ didnt play like a scrub, stop looking at names and start looking at performance. Stevenson played well as well...but I love how you bring up less important end of the bench guys to make your point, what a homer :lol

Is Chandler a scrub?Kidd?Terry?Marion? Was that entire $90 mill payroll full of scrubs other than Dirk?



No championship road is easy homer, obviously there will be good teams. I never said the Mavs played scrub teams, I said they didnt play any legendary/dominant teams that will be remembered years from now like Jordan's Bulls that Malone & Barkley faltered against. The Cheat might be that someday, but theyre not ready yet.

Also who expected them to lose every series? Yall niggas exaggerate shit so much to prop up Dirk lol, I hate the Mavs and even I expected them to get past both Portland and OKC. And again the unlikeliness of the Mavs championship has no correlation to how good Portland, LA, OKC, and the Cheat were.

Their fans won't like this, but the Mavs essentially picked a year where neither the Spurs or Lakers were at their best. The Mavs took advantage, went through the open door.

In addition, they played a Heat team that had the weight of expectations on its shoulders.

As for the Mavs-Heat: Mavs should have won in 2006, but blew it. Heat blew it in 2011, gave away gm 2 & probably gm 4. It all evened out.

[LkrFan]

I wouldn't trade Tim Duncan for Kobe Bryant. Certainly not then and not now either. Thanks.

Who's raising the bar that high? I was talking about Lamar Odom. His 14.4 ppg as a bench player beasts TD's 13.8 ppg as an "all star" and his 8.7 rpg virtually matches TD's 8.9 rpg. :lol

Now :downspin: that shit, ya dig? :lol

[stretch]

I said they didnt play any legendary/dominant teams that will be remembered years from now like Jordan's Bulls that Malone & Barkley faltered against.

id say that the Lakers were pretty dominant. they were reigning back-to-back champions, and were supposedly an improved team from previous years with the much improved play of Odom, and needed additions to the bench of Steve Blake and Matt Barnes, while suffering no significant losses or injuries (unless losing Vujacic or Farmar is considered significant :lmao).

there is only a small handful of back-to-back champions in NBA history (thus giving them a very arguable legendary status), and most people expected them to beat the piss out of the Mavs and probably complete the 3-peat, especially after what happened the last time the Mavs and Lakers played with the Mavs getting "punked"

dont forget the Mavs losing their 2nd best player on the team for the rest of the season in Butler, and still being able to win it all.




and fwiw, legendary status isnt given to you. you make your own legendary status. MJ did it by beating guys like Barkley and Malone. Had Barkley and Malone beaten him, him and the Bulls wouldnt nearly be as legendary as they were. and they certainly werent unbeatable, as there were several years where the Pistons owned the shit out of the Bulls just prior to their run, despite having the same general core of teammates, and several times they were pushed to 7 games by teams like the Pacers and Knicks, and still given very hard-fought series against teams like the Jazz, in which almost every single game they played in the two times they faced off were within 5 points. I think there was only 3 games out of the 12 they played that were more than a 5 point margin (the Bulls won 2 and the Jazz won 1). The Suns gave them a hard fought series as well. So those guys certainly had good enough teams and had their chances. They simply didn't make the best of their chances, while guys like MJ (or in the case of our discussion, Dirk) did.

[stretch]

Their fans won't like this, but the Mavs essentially picked a year where neither the Spurs or Lakers were at their best. The Mavs took advantage, went through the open door.

tbqh, the Spurs havent been particularly good for 4-5 years now, and wont be getting back there anytime soon, unless they pull off some Gasol-esque trade.

[DMC]

tbqh, the Spurs havent been particularly good for 4-5 years now, and wont be getting back there anytime soon, unless they pull off some Gasol-esque trade.
Haven't been good?

Yeah, they've missed the playoffs damn near every year since 2007 (4 years ago).

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

For the most part, Tim Duncan didn't play any legendary teams (outside of the Kobe and Shaq Lakers, that just like the 2011 Lakers, were imploding at the time of the series and having severe chemistry issues) en route to his 4 championships, but no way in fuck does that make his victories against non-legendary teams less impressive than Malone's defeats against legendary teams.

As stretch said in the post above mine, Dirk made the most out of the chance he had. Malone had plenty of chances to win a championship without going through Jordan, and in other situations choked against a team he had to beat to even face Jordan's Bulls.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606020SEA.html
Getting worked by Shawn Kemp in game 7 of the WCF has nothing to do with Jordan.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199905270POR.html
Shooting fuckin 18% (:lmao) in a must win game 6 against an inferior Portland team has nothing to do with Jordan


Karl Malone found ways to lose big playoff games regardless of who his opponent was. If it was simply Michael Jordan's Bulls in his way, he would have had a lot more than two trips to the finals in his 15+ year career with the Jazz.

Same can be said for Barkley. He did stupid things and found ways to lose games. Against the Rockets in 1995 when the Suns were up 3-1, he started drinking and playing 36 holes of golf the day before games. Against the Bulls in 1993, he made the retarded decision to leave his man and force Ainge to help off John Paxson. That's a retarded decision he coulda made at the worst time against any team. It's not like Michael Jordan was able to hypnotize him and make him do something dumb.

[FkLA]

id say that the Lakers were pretty dominant. they were reigning back-to-back champions, and were supposedly an improved team from previous years with the much improved play of Odom, and needed additions to the bench of Steve Blake and Matt Barnes, while suffering no significant losses or injuries (unless losing Vujacic or Farmar is considered significant :lmao).

there is only a small handful of back-to-back champions in NBA history (thus giving them a very arguable legendary status), and most people expected them to beat the piss out of the Mavs and probably complete the 3-peat, especially after what happened the last time the Mavs and Lakers played with the Mavs getting "punked"

These Lakers were never that dominant to begin with. Im pretty sure most people would agree that even just in the past 15 yrs aside from Jordan's Bulls...Duncan's Spurs, Shaq&Kobe's Lakers, and even the Pistons and Celtics that won titles were superior. They won back to back titles because during this era only Boston really stepped up as a legit team, and they had significant injuries both years LA won it all. They mightve beat Boston despite the injuries, but the point is prior to the Mavs stepping up this year and the Cheat forming the Big 3 the NBA was basically a 2 team league and in 09' and 10' one of those teams got hit hard by the injury bug.


For the most part, Tim Duncan didn't play any legendary teams (outside of the Kobe and Shaq Lakers, that just like the 2011 Lakers, were imploding at the time of the series and having severe chemistry issues) en route to his 4 championships, but no way in fuck does that make his victories against non-legendary teams less impressive than Malone's defeats against legendary teams.

As stretch said in the post above mine, Dirk made the most out of the chance he had. Malone had plenty of chances to win a championship without going through Jordan, and in other situations choked against a team he had to beat to even face Jordan's Bulls.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606020SEA.html
Getting worked by Shawn Kemp in game 7 of the WCF has nothing to do with Jordan.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199905270POR.html
Shooting fuckin 18% (:lmao) in a must win game 6 against an inferior Portland team has nothing to do with Jordan


Karl Malone found ways to lose big playoff games regardless of who his opponent was. If it was simply Michael Jordan's Bulls in his way, he would have had a lot more than two trips to the finals in his 15+ year career with the Jazz.

Same can be said for Barkley. He did stupid things and found ways to lose games. Against the Rockets in 1995 when the Suns were up 3-1, he started drinking and playing 36 holes of golf the day before games. Against the Bulls in 1993, he made the retarded decision to leave his man and force Ainge to help off John Paxson. That's a retarded decision he coulda made at the worst time against any team. It's not like Michael Jordan was able to hypnotize him and make him do something dumb.


The chemisty issues are were the comparison ends nigga. In 03' Kobe was still in his prime and Shaq was damn close to it, also Fish aside from being a
clutch mofo was also still a very respectable starting-caliber PG. Comparing the aging and declining 11' Lakers to that team is ridiculous. There were certainly chemisty issues and complacency during the season, but talent wise they still were still stacked and picked their game up in the post-season...the 11'Lakers werent capable of simply turning the switch on because Kobe is clearly past his prime and Fish is now a dead corpse out on the court.

And Im aware that Malone had his fair amount of chokejobs (as did Dirk), but he still had 2 Finals appearances which happened to be against MJ's Bulls. A team Dirk wouldve likely faltered against as well. The Cheat had their 3 all-stars but they were nowhere near as polished and savvy as the 90s Bulls. You cant just simply look at ring count and say Dirk rang and Malone didnt so Dirk>Malone...you have analyze their games and the eras they played in as well.

[FkLA]

Notice how basically everyone (other than homer Mavfan) whether it be Spurs, Cavs, Pistons, Lakers, or Boston fan is saying the exact same shit. How Dirk is certainly a Top 5 PF of all-time probably in the 4-5th rang and how his supporting cast (especially defensively) is really being underrated.

All of those fans cant be butthurt and jealous of the Mavs & Dirk can they? Maybe theyre just being unbiased, which is something Mavfan is incapable of doing when talking about anything Mav or Dirk related. :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yeah, the 03 Lakers were better than the 11 Lakers, and Tim Duncan's 2003 season was more impressive than Dirk's 2011 season, and that's one of the many reasons Duncan is considered better than Dirk. The point is that Dirk in 2011, like Duncan in 2003, took advantage of the opportunity a weak playoff field gave him. Malone had that same opportunity in 1999 and shot 18% in a game 7 against an inferior team. Last year, Dirk did everything he could to take advantage of what very well might be his last shot at a championship, something Malone never did.

As far as bad playoff games go, Dirk has his share of bad playoff games at the wrong time, but there isn't the kind of statistical drop off between his regular season numbers and post season numbers like there is with Malone. At some point, something clicked in Dirk that made him better and more hungry in the playoffs. Nothing ever clicked with Malone. He never stopped looking scared.

[rascal]

Elvin Hayes was the greatest power forward of all time.

Finally someone who remembers to not forget the old time greats.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Notice how basically everyone (other than homer Mavfan) whether it be Spurs, Cavs, Pistons, Lakers, or Boston fan is saying the exact same shit. How Dirk is certainly a Top 5 PF of all-time probably in the 4-5th rang and how his supporting cast (especially defensively) is really being underrated.

All of those fans cant be butthurt and jealous of the Mavs & Dirk can they? Maybe theyre just being unbiased, which is something Mavfan is incapable of doing when talking about anything Mav or Dirk related. :lol
For the record I basically have Dirk as a top 3 PF by default. I think both Barkley and Malone are wildly overrated stat whores.

[Deuce Bigalow]

These Lakers were never that dominant to begin with. Im pretty sure most people would agree that even just in the past 15 yrs aside from Jordan's Bulls...Duncan's Spurs, Shaq&Kobe's Lakers, and even the Pistons and Celtics that won titles were superior. They won back to back titles because during this era only Boston really stepped up as a legit team, and they had significant injuries both years LA won it all. They mightve beat Boston despite the injuries, but the point is prior to the Mavs stepping up this year and the Cheat forming the Big 3 the NBA was basically a 2 team league and in 09' and 10' one of those teams got hit hard by the injury bug.




The chemisty issues are were the comparison ends nigga. In 03' Kobe was still in his prime and Shaq was damn close to it, also Fish aside from being a
clutch mofo was also still a very respectable starting-caliber PG. Comparing the aging and declining 11' Lakers to that team is ridiculous. There were certainly chemisty issues and complacency during the season, but talent wise they still were still stacked and picked their game up in the post-season...the 11'Lakers werent capable of simply turning the switch on because Kobe is clearly past his prime and Fish is now a dead corpse out on the court.

And Im aware that Malone had his fair amount of chokejobs (as did Dirk), but he still had 2 Finals appearances which happened to be against MJ's Bulls. A team Dirk wouldve likely faltered against as well. The Cheat had their 3 all-stars but they were nowhere near as polished and savvy as the 90s Bulls. You cant just simply look at ring count and say Dirk rang and Malone didnt so Dirk>Malone...you have analyze their games and the eras they played in as well.


The lakers never even got the best record in the league in 2008-2010
in 2010, the 8th seed in the West won 50 games

[stretch]

You cant just simply look at ring count and say Dirk rang and Malone didnt so Dirk>Malone...you have analyze their games and the eras they played in as well.

we do

and dirk is still better

malone made a career off of john stockton getting him wide open shots over and over and over.

dirk made a career off getting his teammates wide open shots over and over and over, and getting any shot he wanted to get for himself in the process

[FkLA]

For the record I basically have Dirk as a top 3 PF by default. I think both Barkley and Malone are wildly overrated stat whores.

Malone stat-padded some especially towards the end of his career, sure. But how was Barkley a stat whore, is it because he put up those number and didnt win anything? So does that mean that prior to this past season Dirk was a stat whore as well??


we do

and dirk is still better

malone made a career off of john stockton getting him wide open shots over and over and over.

dirk made a career off getting his teammates wide open shots over and over and over, and getting any shot he wanted to get for himself in the process

First of all your statement about Malone making a career out of Stockton is retarded. Stockton helped but I didnt see any other Jazz players making all-nba teams and winning MVPs because they had Stockton setting up shots for them. The Mailman could play.

Secondly, is the game of basketball played on one side of the ball? Why conveniently not consider other aspects of the game, is it because Dirk is average at best in those other aspects?

[Stalin]

For last 12 years, _irk and the mavs, have been stacked every year, with the top payroll, and still made choking into an art for more than a decade. As soon as spurs and lakers fade, dirk gets lucky, and all of a sudden he's second to duncan all time at pf.

LOL get the fuck out of here son

[JoeTait75]

we do

and dirk is still better

malone made a career off of john stockton getting him wide open shots over and over and over.

dirk made a career off getting his teammates wide open shots over and over and over, and getting any shot he wanted to get for himself in the process

I agree Dirk > Malone simply based on their postseason resumes. Of course Dirk had a couple of series where he laid an egg (2006 Finals, 2007 vs. GS) but he also has signature series from multiple seasons. Series that will always be remembered as belonging to him. You'll hear people say, "Dirk took over that series," or "Dirk carried Dallas in that series."

Malone, on the other hand... does he have ANY series in which he's remembered for taking over? Hell, Stockton took the big shots for that team. I can't think of a single Utah playoff series from the '90s that will be thought of as "Karl Malone's series."

[Giuseppe]

For last 12 years, _irk and the mavs, have been stacked every year, with the top payroll, and still made choking into an art for more than a decade.

The bitter truth.

[LkrFan]

Mailman
KG
TD
Barkley
Dirk
Gasol
Prime Kemp

[endrity]

For last 12 years, _irk and the mavs, have been stacked every year, with the top payroll, and still made choking into an art for more than a decade. As soon as spurs and lakers fade, dirk gets lucky, and all of a sudden he's second to duncan all time at pf.

LOL get the fuck out of here son

The other teams with top payrolls included the Knicks and Blazers. What did that do for them? In fact you can argue that Cuban's desire to overspend reduced the flexibility of the roster and never allowed Dallas to bring in a second superstar because they didn't have the contracts to do so.

[Sportstudi]

The other teams with top payrolls included the Knicks and Blazers. What did that do for them? In fact you can argue that Cuban's desire to overspend reduced the flexibility of the roster and never allowed Dallas to bring in a second superstar because they didn't have the contracts to do so.

Thanks, just wanted to write the same about Cuban's desire of overpaying certain players. That surely impacted the payroll. You can't tell me that guys like Diop (especially after re-signing him) or Dampier were worth their money. About the current roster, despite having a couple of good games in the playoffs, I do think that also Terry is overpaid. Same for Haywood (who only had a few good games during the entire season). There are still other examples left you could make for Cuban overpaying a player or giving up too much in trades, diminishing the flexibility.

[endrity]

Glad to see that I am not the only one thinking Malone is way overrated. You can bitch all you want about having to face Jordan, but I remember him playing well in only two of those 12 Finals games and often playing hot potato with the ball in the final minutes.

Duncan aside, the only other player I think has a strong argument to be over Dirk is Barkley. Unlike KG and Malone, he carried his teams. He was a true franchise-type player, one that you could build around and get the ball to in the last minutes expecting him to win the game for you. More than Malone, Barkley has a true argument on having to face Jordan. Chuck was amazing in 93, and played an epic Finals, only to be topped by what I think was Jordan at his absolute peak.

So yes, I think it is:
1. Duncan
2. Barkley
3. Dirk

I am really not sure KG and Malone are automatic after that. Elvis Hayes has the career to claim one of those spots. McHale to a certain extent can as well.

But the one player who I think is criminally underrated is Bob Pettit. He was the only one to beat Russell's Celtics when they were at their best. Led the league as a scorer twice. If anyone has an argument for 4th spot and maybe higher, I think it's Pettit.

[LkrFan]

For last 12 years, _irk and the mavs, have been stacked every year, with the top payroll, and still made choking into an art for more than a decade. As soon as spurs and lakers fade, dirk gets lucky, and all of a sudden he's second to duncan all time at pf.

LOL get the fuck out of here son

:toast

[stretch]

First of all your statement about Malone making a career out of Stockton is retarded. Stockton helped but I didnt see any other Jazz players making all-nba teams and winning MVPs because they had Stockton setting up shots for them. The Mailman could play.

Secondly, is the game of basketball played on one side of the ball? Why conveniently not consider other aspects of the game, is it because Dirk is average at best in those other aspects?

no doubt he could play

just not as good as Dirk

proof? Dirk led his team to victory against a team with the 2 best players in the NBA in the Finals, and not having any serious #2 option to support him. Malone faced the best player in the NBA, and had what some people still argue was a more talented supporting cast, and still lost. Dirk faced arguably much tougher circumstances than Malone did, and still made the best of it, while Malone is known for pissing his many chances away, despite having what many people felt was a superior all-around team to the Bulls.

yeah, you can make the counter argument you always do of "dirk choked in the past!!!!!!!!!!! :cry :cry :cry" but the difference is, he still came through at least once for his team, when facing tough odds. Malone never did. Hell, Malone wasnt even the best player on his team. If I'm building a team, and had to build around one of those two, I take Stockton 10 times out of 10 before taking Malone.

[stretch]

I agree Dirk > Malone simply based on their postseason resumes. Of course Dirk had a couple of series where he laid an egg (2006 Finals, 2007 vs. GS) but he also has signature series from multiple seasons. Series that will always be remembered as belonging to him. You'll hear people say, "Dirk took over that series," or "Dirk carried Dallas in that series."

Malone, on the other hand... does he have ANY series in which he's remembered for taking over? Hell, Stockton took the big shots for that team. I can't think of a single Utah playoff series from the '90s that will be thought of as "Karl Malone's series."

+1000000000000000

Dirk may have had his bad series, but he also had some absolutely phenomonal series, and finally led them to the Championship. Malone doesnt have many series that were as amazing as Dirk, if any. And obviously he never got them that ring.

[stretch]

Glad to see that I am not the only one thinking Malone is way overrated. You can bitch all you want about having to face Jordan, but I remember him playing well in only two of those 12 Finals games and often playing hot potato with the ball in the final minutes.

Duncan aside, the only other player I think has a strong argument to be over Dirk is Barkley. Unlike KG and Malone, he carried his teams. He was a true franchise-type player, one that you could build around and get the ball to in the last minutes expecting him to win the game for you. More than Malone, Barkley has a true argument on having to face Jordan. Chuck was amazing in 93, and played an epic Finals, only to be topped by what I think was Jordan at his absolute peak.

So yes, I think it is:
1. Duncan
2. Barkley
3. Dirk

I am really not sure KG and Malone are automatic after that. Elvis Hayes has the career to claim one of those spots. McHale to a certain extent can as well.

But the one player who I think is criminally underrated is Bob Pettit. He was the only one to beat Russell's Celtics when they were at their best. Led the league as a scorer twice. If anyone has an argument for 4th spot and maybe higher, I think it's Pettit.

yeah, Barkley has a MUCH better argument than Malone ever will. Even then, I still say Dirk. Dude got that ring that Chuck never got, and his career still isn't over.

[stretch]

For last 12 years, _irk and the mavs, have been stacked every year, with the top payroll, and still made choking into an art for more than a decade. As soon as spurs and lakers fade, dirk gets lucky, and all of a sudden he's second to duncan all time at pf.

LOL get the fuck out of here son

yup, paying Dampier, Diop, and Terry a combined 35 mil a year means that the Mavs are stacked as fuck, simply because they have a high payroll. :rolleyes

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

yeah, Barkley has a MUCH better argument than Malone ever will. Even then, I still say Dirk. Dude got that ring that Chuck never got, and his career still isn't over.
I think in some respects the Barkley argument is tougher. While Malone is a greatly overrated defender and his defense basically consisted of throwing some elbows here and there, he's regarded as a good defender and has a few all NBA defensive appearances. As bad as Dirk has been at biggest weakness for a good portion of his career, Barkley was just as bad. Dirk has never made a huge defensive mistake that directly led to his team losing an important playoff game, while Barkley's "Act first, think later" defense led to Paxson having a finals winning wide open 3.

[stretch]

I think in some respects the Barkley argument is tougher. While Malone is a greatly overrated defender and his defense basically consisted of throwing some elbows here and there, he's regarded as a good defender and has a few all NBA defensive appearances. As bad as Dirk has been at biggest weakness for a good portion of his career, Barkley was just as bad. Dirk has never made a huge defensive mistake that directly led to his team losing an important playoff game, while Barkley's "Act first, think later" defense led to Paxson having a finals winning wide open 3.

good points

but if I had to choose between building a team around Barkley or Malone, I would take Barkley all day.

[endrity]

I agree Dirk > Malone simply based on their postseason resumes. Of course Dirk had a couple of series where he laid an egg (2006 Finals, 2007 vs. GS) but he also has signature series from multiple seasons. Series that will always be remembered as belonging to him. You'll hear people say, "Dirk took over that series," or "Dirk carried Dallas in that series."

Malone, on the other hand... does he have ANY series in which he's remembered for taking over? Hell, Stockton took the big shots for that team. I can't think of a single Utah playoff series from the '90s that will be thought of as "Karl Malone's series."

There are at least three series, '06 Spurs, '11 Lakers, '11 Heat where Dirk led his team to unexpected victories, the type of which Malone never came close to having. And by led, I mean he had some truly epic performances. That right there is the difference.

[stretch]

There are at least three series, '06 Spurs, '11 Lakers, '11 Heat where Dirk led his team to unexpected victories, the type of which Malone never came close to having. And by led, I mean he had some truly epic performances. That right there is the difference.

and he had some pretty legendary moments in the 06 series against Phoenix, and the 11 series against OKC. both were series in which Dallas was favored, but both also had games where things looked pretty much hopeless, and he came out of nowhere and bailed them out (50 point game against Phoenix, 15 point under 5 minute deficit against OKC). if they had lost those games, there was a solid chance they lose the series in both cases, especially against Phoenix as they would have went down 3-2.

[endrity]

and he had some pretty legendary moments in the 06 series against Phoenix, and the 11 series against OKC. both were series in which Dallas was favored, but both also had games where things looked pretty much hopeless, and he came out of nowhere and bailed them out (50 point game against Phoenix, 15 point under 5 minute deficit against OKC). if they had lost those games, there was a solid chance they lose the series in both cases, especially against Phoenix as they would have went down 3-2.

True, he was arguably better in those two series, but as you said, the Mavs were somewhat favoured in both series. The other three were against reigning champions, twice, and against the so-called two best players in the NBA.

p.s though few will remember it, I think Dirk's best series ever was '09 Denver. He went against a formidable defensive frontline and shredded them with 30+pts, 11 rebs, and 50%+ shooting. Second I think is '01 Minny. Dirk was still a young player establishing himself, KG wanted to have him one on one, and Dirk absolutely toyed with him, putting similiar statistics to the Denver series. Whenever someone says KG is sooo much better, they have to look at that series over and over.

[picc84]

1. Duncan
2. Barkley
3. KG
4. Dirk
5. Malone

It's difficult trying to weigh different factors, like the difference between real dominance offensively versus being a better all around player. I ranked Barkley because of his dominance because he even admits now that he wasn't a good defender. But his impact on the game overall lessens the fact that he was a subpar defender, especially when you consider how big a rebounder he was.


I ride with this list.

Also, Barkley was a subpar defender mostly in his Phx years and because he didn't try. In Philly he played more defense. He guarded 2-5 and was a menace in the passing lanes.

I don't see how anyone has a top 3 without Duncan, Barkley, and KG. Clearly the 3 most dominant and complete players at that position.

[endrity]

I ride with this list.

Also, Barkley was a subpar defender mostly in his Phx years and because he didn't try. In Philly he played more defense. He guarded 2-5 and was a menace in the passing lanes.

I don't see how anyone has a top 3 without Duncan, Barkley, and KG. Clearly the 3 most dominant and complete players at that position.

There are 2 franchise players on that list, and one of the best second bananas ever.

[Sportstudi]

True, he was arguably better in those two series, but as you said, the Mavs were somewhat favoured in both series. The other three were against reigning champions, twice, and against the so-called two best players in the NBA.

p.s though few will remember it, I think Dirk's best series ever was '09 Denver. He went against a formidable defensive frontline and shredded them with 30+pts, 11 rebs, and 50%+ shooting. Second I think is '01 Minny. Dirk was still a young player establishing himself, KG wanted to have him one on one, and Dirk absolutely toyed with him, putting similiar statistics to the Denver series. Whenever someone says KG is sooo much better, they have to look at that series over and over.

I agree with the series vs. Denver. I recall people here on this board writing on how much Kenyon Martin would own Dirk and shut him down. Yeah, right... Dirk took a dump on Martin and averaged 34.4 ppg, 11.6 rpg and 4 apg for the series despite having problems with his then fiancee being arrested at his home. Obviously Pau wasn't able to do the same this year... Too bad that the entire rest of the Mavs shit the bed against Denver.

[FkLA]

p.s though few will remember it, I think Dirk's best series ever was '09 Denver. He went against a formidable defensive frontline and shredded them with 30+pts, 11 rebs, and 50%+ shooting. Second I think is '01 Minny. Dirk was still a young player establishing himself, KG wanted to have him one on one, and Dirk absolutely toyed with him, putting similiar statistics to the Denver series. Whenever someone says KG is sooo much better, they have to look at that series over and over.

:lol

Dirk is a great offensive talent and there are very few guys that he hasnt burned, the fact that KG couldnt stop him doesnt make him a better and more complete player though. KG aside from putting up 22-23 ppg was a better rebounder and a far superior defensive player.

Also I dont see how you can call that nigga a 2nd banana. Yall Dallas homers love to bring up supporting casts to defend Dirk, well take a minute to look at KG's. A disgruntled Marbury and Wally Sczerbiak are probably the best players he had prior to 04', once he finally had some help in 04' with Spreewell&Cassell he managed to reach the WCF and was forced to play PG at times in that series vs LA bc of Cassell's injury. Who knows how far he goes with competent GMs and a higher payroll in Minny. Not to mention that he was actually the Cs best player in 08', regardless of who got the Finals MVP.

[picc84]

There are 2 franchise players on that list, and one of the best second bananas ever.

Only 2nd banana talent of that list is Malone. So i'm guessing thats who you're talking about.

[endrity]

Only 2nd banana talent of that list is Malone. So i'm guessing thats who you're talking about.

I am talking about the guy who never even dared to take a last second shot, and needed two All-Stars next to him to get that title.

[stretch]

Dirk is a great offensive talent and there are very few guys that he hasnt burned, the fact that KG couldnt stop him doesnt make him a better and more complete player though. KG aside from putting up 22-23 ppg was a better rebounder and a far superior defensive player.

lets put it this way

David Robinson was a much more complete player than Shaq, and its not even close. In a way, Shaq was a one-trick pony, in that he would simply overpower his opponents. But Shaq's one trick of extreme physical dominance, was still better then all of D-Robs very good tricks of versatility, which is why Shaq is always considered a greater player than Robinson, and is viewed by many as the greatest center to ever play (or at the very least, in the discussion), whereas you never hear Robinsons name in that discussion (except by homer spurfans).

KG is a much more complete player than Dirk. But Dirk's ability to raise the level of his teammates play, and to score at will on any defender, is superior to all of KG's various abilities in which he was superior to Dirk, such as being a stronger defender and rebounder.

[dirk4mvp]

Not a good example. There are spur fans that think Robinson actually is better than Shaq.

[Leetonidas]

Dirk > KG is not a question imo. KG proved for years he was Duncan's shadow and he couldn't step up in clutch time and be the man. He paired up with two of the better wing players of the last decade to win a title while Dirk won his with JET as his best wing player. KG, maybe 10 years ago, was easily the better player but today, not so much. Plus he's an annoying little shit stain that lies about the shit he talks to NBA players

[DMC]

Dirk > KG is not a question imo. KG proved for years he was Duncan's shadow and he couldn't step up in clutch time and be the man. He paired up with two of the better wing players of the last decade to win a title while Dirk won his with JET as his best wing player. KG, maybe 10 years ago, was easily the better player but today, not so much. Plus he's an annoying little shit stain that lies about the shit he talks to NBA players
Prime Dirk vs Prime KG, I would take KG any day of the week. It's not even close.

[stretch]

Prime Dirk vs Prime KG, I would take KG any day of the week. It's not even close.

apparently you prefer having dicks shoved up your ass then

[Jodelo]

Prime Dirk vs Prime KG, I would take KG any day of the week. It's not even close.

Good luck.

[FkLA]

lets put it this way

David Robinson was a much more complete player than Shaq, and its not even close. In a way, Shaq was a one-trick pony, in that he would simply overpower his opponents. But Shaq's one trick of extreme physical dominance, was still better then all of D-Robs very good tricks of versatility, which is why Shaq is always considered a greater player than Robinson, and is viewed by many as the greatest center to ever play (or at the very least, in the discussion), whereas you never hear Robinsons name in that discussion (except by homer spurfans).

KG is a much more complete player than Dirk. But Dirk's ability to raise the level of his teammates play, and to score at will on any defender, is superior to all of KG's various abilities in which he was superior to Dirk, such as being a stronger defender and rebounder.

Holy shit, yall homers never cease to amaze me :lol

You do know that for the majority of his career Dirk has been second tier right? During the early-mid 00s he was not anywhere close to the Top PFs in the game...Duncan, KG, and Webber were in a league of their own. He was also in nobody other than Mav homers top 5 list during that time frame --TD, Shaq, Kobe, Tmac, Kidd, KG, Webber, and AI were all better. So dont compare Dirk to Shaq, during his early years and prime Shaq was never second tier. Dirk's dominance doesnt even remotely come close to Shaq's. Not to mention Shaq despite being lazy had more of a defensive presence than Dirk ever did, and was also a better rebounder. A couple of elite years and one year at the top of the league doesnt bump him into #2 in the all-time PF list, not when he wasnt even #2 for most of the time during his own era.

Also yall niggas need to stop pointing out how weak his offensive help was this year to somehow prove that he doesnt need a good supporting cast...hes had more than sufficient offensive help during his career (Finley, Nash, Jamison, Walker, Howard, Terry, Butler, etc) that was never the problem. The problem was defense, and his inability to impact the game on that side of the ball. This year defensively his supporting cast was a great one. He was the worst defender in that starting line-up. Aside from that that 'weak' offensive supporting cast stepped up big on that end as well, Dirk had plenty of help.

[FkLA]

Fuck you can even throw in Jermaine O'Neal pre-injury as a PF that was better than Dirk during that time frame. Might even be able to make a case for Sheed. Dirk was barely in the Top 5 PFs during most of his own era, yet now hes supposed to hold the #2 spot of all-time? :lol

[Giuseppe]

apparently you prefer having dicks shoved up your ass then

Reminds me of DoK & I's courtship.

[DMC]

apparently you prefer having dicks shoved up your ass then
I give Dirk his props, but too many young'uns either don't know or have memory lapses.

Prime KG would fucking kill Dirk, totally destroy him. Dirk would get points, but remember that basketball is played on both ends of the floor.

Dirk has offense, nothing else.

[Axe Murderer]

Fuck you can even throw in Jermaine O'Neal pre-injury as a PF that was better than Dirk during that time frame. Might even be able to make a case for Sheed.

oh wow

[Monostradamus]

Fuck you can even throw in Jermaine O'Neal pre-injury as a PF that was better than Dirk during that time frame. Might even be able to make a case for Sheed. Dirk was barely in the Top 5 PFs during most of his own era, yet now hes supposed to hold the #2 spot of all-time? :lol

:lol "most of his own era"

You gotta be certifiably retarded to think 1999-2004 was Dirk's "era"

[nowhereman523]

Holy shit, yall homers never cease to amaze me :lol

You do know that for the majority of his career Dirk has been second tier right? During the early-mid 00s he was not anywhere close to the Top PFs in the game...Duncan, KG, and Webber were in a league of their own. He was also in nobody other than Mav homers top 5 list during that time frame --TD, Shaq, Kobe, Tmac, Kidd, KG, Webber, and AI were all better. So dont compare Dirk to Shaq, during his early years and prime Shaq was never second tier. Dirk's dominance doesnt even remotely come close to Shaq's. Not to mention Shaq despite being lazy had more of a defensive presence than Dirk ever did, and was also a better rebounder. A couple of elite years and one year at the top of the league doesnt bump him into #2 in the all-time PF list, not when he wasnt even #2 for most of the time during his own era.

Also yall niggas need to stop pointing out how weak his offensive help was this year to somehow prove that he doesnt need a good supporting cast...hes had more than sufficient offensive help during his career (Finley, Nash, Jamison, Walker, Howard, Terry, Butler, etc) that was never the problem. The problem was defense, and his inability to impact the game on that side of the ball. This year defensively his supporting cast was a great one. He was the worst defender in that starting line-up. Aside from that that 'weak' offensive supporting cast stepped up big on that end as well, Dirk had plenty of help.

You keep saying the same things, and, believe it or not, you're still wrong.

Dirk was all-nba his 3d year, and 1st team all nba starting 04-05. He hasn't had an all-star that wasn't an injury replacement on his team since Nash left. By 2004-05, he was finishing top 3 in MVP races while Garnett wasn't in the top 10, in 05-06, Garnett didn't even make an ALL-NBA team. I don't think one of the 4 best power forwards of all time would miss an ALL-NBA team in his prime. Dirk's been better since Garnett since 02-03. Deal with it.

[BlackSwordsMan]

I would choose dat dirk over dem shaq tbh

[stretch]

Fuck you can even throw in Jermaine O'Neal pre-injury as a PF that was better than Dirk during that time frame. Might even be able to make a case for Sheed. Dirk was barely in the Top 5 PFs during most of his own era, yet now hes supposed to hold the #2 spot of all-time? :lol

this pretty much screams out "i love to be anally probed by black men"


I give Dirk his props, but too many young'uns either don't know or have memory lapses.

Prime KG would fucking kill Dirk, totally destroy him. Dirk would get points, but remember that basketball is played on both ends of the floor.

Dirk has offense, nothing else.

um, prime KG got his ass handed to him by a young, developing Dirk. KG struggled heavily in the series trying to defend Dirk, and ended up getting his ass swept.

[Proxy]

Fuck you can even throw in Jermaine O'Neal pre-injury as a PF that was better than Dirk during that time frame. Might even be able to make a case for Sheed. Dirk was barely in the Top 5 PFs during most of his own era, yet now hes supposed to hold the #2 spot of all-time? :lol

How many times did KG lead Minny to the title?

[FkLA]

You keep saying the same things, and, believe it or not, you're still wrong.

Dirk was all-nba his 3d year, and 1st team all nba starting 04-05. He hasn't had an all-star that wasn't an injury replacement on his team since Nash left. By 2004-05, he was finishing top 3 in MVP races while Garnett wasn't in the top 10, in 05-06, Garnett didn't even make an ALL-NBA team. I don't think one of the 4 best power forwards of all time would miss an ALL-NBA team in his prime. Dirk's been better since Garnett since 02-03. Deal with it.


:lmao:lmao:lmao

I'll give you 05' as the year where it became really close, the edge to Dirk in 06-07, KG in 08', and Dirk since then. Again this nigga hasnt been the 2nd best during most of his own era yet now hes supposed to be 2nd all-time? GTFO with that homer shit.

2000
KG-1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defense, 2nd MVP voting
Dirk-none

2001
KG-2nd Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defense, 6th MVP voting
Dirk-3rd Team All-NBA

2002
KG-2nd Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defense, 12th MVP voting
Dirk-2nd Team All-NBA, 8th MVP voting

2003
KG-1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defense, 2nd MVP voting
Dirk-2nd Team All-NBA, 7th MVP voting

2004
KG-1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defense, MVP
Dirk-3rd Team All-NBA, 10th MVP voting

2005
KG-2nd Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defense, 11th MVP voting
Dirk-1st Team All-NBA, 3rd MVP voting

2006
KG-2nd Team All-Defense
Dirk-1st Team All-NBA, 3rd MVP voting

2007
KG-3rd Team All-NBA, 2nd Team All-Defense, 9th MVP Voting
Dirk-1st Team All-NBa, MVP

2008
KG-1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defense, 3rd MVP Voting
Dirk-2nd Team All-NBA, 11th MVP Voting

2009
KG-1st Team All-Defense
Dirk-1st Team All-NBA, 10th MVP Voting

[FkLA]

How many times did KG lead Minny to the title?

Zero, but he was the best player on the 08' Boston team that won it all. Look up those rosters for those Minny team too or better yet post them on here.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yeah Dirk being better than KG since sometime during the 2004-2005 season is def. arguable, but Idk how Dirk's been better than KG since 2002-2003 when KG won MVP during the 2003-2004 and led a shit supporting cast to 60 wins and the WCF.

[FkLA]

:lol "most of his own era"

You gotta be certifiably retarded to think 1999-2004 was Dirk's "era"

Well yea I guess your right, to call it Dirk's era the nigga would actually have to have been relevant during that time instead of being second-tier. Obviously meant to say during the era he played in, thanks for catching my mistake. :toast

Did go overboard with the Sheed and JO comment though, just giving yall homers a taste of your own medicine :lol

[FkLA]

Yeah Dirk being better than KG since sometime during the 2004-2005 season is def. arguable, but Idk how Dirk's been better than KG since 2002-2003 when KG won MVP during the 2003-2004 and led a shit supporting cast to 60 wins and the WCF.

That was actually the season they aquired Cassell and Spree and his supporting cast stopped being shit. Cassell was an all-star and Spree had a legit case for being on that team that year as well. Then Minn management fucked it up by refusing to pay Spree during the 'I need to feed my family' incident, or Spree became greedy however you wanna look at it. Casell was injured for that WCF too and KG was bringing the ball up the court for that series, so with a healthy Cassell who knows how far those niggas get especially with how dysfunctional LA was in 04'.

[Nathan89]

That was actually the season they aquired Cassell and Spree and his supporting cast stopped being shit. Cassell was an all-star and Spree had a legit case for being on that team that year as well. Then Minn management fucked it up by refusing to pay Spree during the 'I need to feed my family' incident, or Spree became greedy however you wanna look at it. Casell was injured for that WCF too and KG was bringing the ball up the court for that series, so with a healthy Cassell who knows how far those niggas get especially with how dysfunctional LA was in 04'.

Nevermind read the entire post.

[Proxy]

Zero, but he was the best player on the 08' Boston team that won it all. Look up those rosters for those Minny team too or better yet post them on here.

You mean, the 2008 Boston team that had three HOFers sign on together, a la 2011 Miami Heat, which we all consider pretty much cheating? That team?

KG's team is no excuse. Dirk stayed with the Mavs. He went through the champs, and defeated the cHeat. KG on the other hand, decided to be a part of a contending team that was cheaply assembled over the off season.

So no. Kg's ability to play defense does not make up for the fact that he's just as much a loser as Lebron and Bosh. His defense does not make up his inability to become the leader that Dirk was this recent season, or that TD ever was, or any of the other top PFs. He was AI at the PF with defense. When KG signed with Boston (and almost with LA), his actions admitted he wasn't good enough. Stats are out the window at this point, because you're comparing players at different tiers.

Dirk takes a team with no fellow all-stars, and wins. When was the last time we saw that?..... let me think.... oh yeah, Duncan's 03 Spurs.

[DMC]

How many times did KG lead Minny to the title?

During the years he played for Minny, the same number that Dirk led Dallas to the title.

[FkLA]

You mean, the 2008 Boston team that had three HOFers sign on together, a la 2011 Miami Heat, which we all consider pretty much cheating? That team?

KG's team is no excuse. Dirk stayed with the Mavs. He went through the champs, and defeated the cHeat. KG on the other hand, decided to be a part of a contending team that was cheaply assembled over the off season.

So no. Kg's ability to play defense does not make up for the fact that he's just as much a loser as Lebron and Bosh. His defense does not make up his inability to become the leader that Dirk was this recent season, or that TD ever was, or any of the other top PFs. He was AI at the PF with defense. When KG signed with Boston (and almost with LA), his actions admitted he wasn't good enough. Stats are out the window at this point, because you're comparing players at different tiers.

Dirk takes a team with no fellow all-stars, and wins. When was the last time we saw that?..... let me think.... oh yeah, Duncan's 03 Spurs.

Yes, that team. Finals MVP or not he was the best player on that team. He made that Boston defense.

And how can you not blame KG's teams? Just take a moment to look at those rosters or post them, the one year he did have two legit players in Cassell&Spree he reached the WCF and w/o the injury to Cassell who knows how much farther. That only lasted a year and Minny management/Spree managed to fuck the situation in Minny up again. Dirk's 'weak' supporting cast this year was better and deeper than any cast KG ever had in Minny, even that 04' cast outside of Cassell&Spree was below average.

Was Dirk more loyal? Sure, but Dirk was also in a better situation in Dallas with Cuban willing to throw money left and right. KG wasnt going anywhere in Minny with that limited small-market budget and incompetent management.

[DMC]

this pretty much screams out "i love to be anally probed by black men"



um, prime KG got his ass handed to him by a young, developing Dirk. KG struggled heavily in the series trying to defend Dirk, and ended up getting his ass swept.

lol

Tim Hardaway, Mike Finley, Steve Nash, Dirk, Nick Van Exel, Juwan Howard

vs

KG and Wally


Also, the All Star argument is a piss poor one. It's a popularity contest, where players are voted in by fans. Yao Ming doesn't even play and gets voted in.

[FkLA]

lol

Tim Hardaway, Mike Finley, Steve Nash, Dirk, Nick Van Exel, Juwan Howard

vs

KG and Wally

Its hilarious that prior to Spree&Cassell arriving Wally was the best player KG had ever played alongside (unless you want to include a young disgruntled Marbury or an aging Brandon)...yet his teams are no excuse for why KG lost, he simply wasnt as good as Dirk. :lol

[DMC]

Its hilarious that prior to Spree&Cassell arriving Wally was the best player KG had ever played alongside (unless you want to include a young disgruntled Marbury or an aging Brandon)...yet his teams are no excuse for why KG lost, he simply wasnt as good as Dirk. :lol


Dirk has been offensively good for longer than KG, but Dirk is average at best on defense. Why people don't consider the full game of a player instead of just the offensive stats is beyond me.

With KG, you basically had two players: one who could score the ball and one who could prevent points at the other end.

With Dirk, you have a scorer who cannot defend the paint. That's why Dallas had to bring in Tyson Chandler to guard the fucking rim because Dirk, a 7 footer, cannot.

[Proxy]

Yes, that team. Finals MVP or not he was the best player on that team. He made that Boston defense.

And how can you not blame KG's teams? Just take a moment to look at those rosters or post them, the one year he did have two legit players in Cassell&Spree he reached the WCF and w/o the injury to Cassell who knows how much farther. That only lasted a year and Minny management/Spree managed to fuck the situation in Minny up again. Dirk's 'weak' supporting cast this year was better and deeper than any cast KG ever had in Minny, even that 04' cast outside of Cassell&Spree was below average.

Was Dirk more loyal? Sure, but Dirk was also in a better situation in Dallas with Cuban willing to throw money left and right. KG wasnt going anywhere in Minny with that limited small-market budget and incompetent management.

If you're going to subtract and add credibility to the surrounding cast, owners included, then it goes both ways. If you want to subtract Dirk's legitimacy due to Cuban, then you have to subtract KG's due to Pierce and Ray.

Again, I don't see how everyone can bash Lebron and Bosh, but KG and Ray get away with it.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

That was actually the season they aquired Cassell and Spree and his supporting cast stopped being shit. Cassell was an all-star and Spree had a legit case for being on that team that year as well. Then Minn management fucked it up by refusing to pay Spree during the 'I need to feed my family' incident, or Spree became greedy however you wanna look at it. Casell was injured for that WCF too and KG was bringing the ball up the court for that series, so with a healthy Cassell who knows how far those niggas get especially with how dysfunctional LA was in 04'.
Tbh I still think it was a shit supporting cast

[DMC]

If you're going to subtract and add credibility to the surrounding cast, owners included, then it goes both ways. If you want to subtract Dirk's legitimacy due to Cuban, then you have to subtract KG's due to Pierce and Ray.

Again, I don't see how everyone can bash Lebron and Bosh, but KG and Ray get away with it.
Lebron was a contender in Cleveland. No one gives a shit about Bosh. Lebron had the ability to win it all if he could get some cohesion and some non-convict players to join him. Neither KG nor Ray nor Paul had that going for them.

Anyhow, Lebron is in his prime. KG was not.

Also, it's more about how he went to Miami than the fact that he did. Two superstars like James and Wade team up, that's nothing like KG and Ray Allen.

[Axe Murderer]

Finals MVP or not he was the best player on that team.

I think if you keep saying that over and over, with nothing to back it up, it'll eventually be true!

[badfish22]

seeing dallas win one would scar me for life especially the same yr we suffered 8

[stretch]

lol

Tim Hardaway, Mike Finley, Steve Nash, Dirk, Nick Van Exel, Juwan Howard

vs

KG and Wally

no, you said Prime KG would kill Dirk. but he didn't. in their head to head matchup, Dirk outplayed the living shit out of KG, especially when being guarded by him. KG had absolutely no answer for him, and never has consistently been able to do shit to stop Dirk.

[stretch]

lol

Tim Hardaway, Mike Finley, Steve Nash, Dirk, Nick Van Exel, Juwan Howard

vs

KG and Wally

and for whatever its worth, they also had Chauncey Billups. and for role players, they didnt exactly have complete shit, as Nesterovic, Peeler, and Trent were all giving decent bench minutes.

and obviously your dumb ass didnt realize that Hardaway nor Howard were on the Mavericks at that time :lmao

im not going to deny it, the Mavs had a better squad, but its not like it was just KG, Wally, and absolutely no help whatsoever after that. he had good enough of a team to not get swept like they did... that is, if KG was actually sooooooooooo much better than Dirk as you continue to claim. if he was that much better, they would have won at least one game, but they didnt.

[Monostradamus]

no, you said Prime KG would kill Dirk. but he didn't.

:lol Mav fan homerism at it's finest.

Dirk only dropped 30, 31, and 39 points in the 3 games that series. Prime KG dominated him, forcing Dirk into a weak ass 30 for 57 from the field. Dirk was also total shit on defense, getting a measly 47 rebounds in 3 games, to go along with a borderline nonexistant 9 steals and 4 blocks.

Meanwhile Prime KG shot a badass 24 of 56 from the field, and we all know 43% is as respectable a shooting percentage as there is for PF's. Meanwhile Prime KG's 5 blocks showed his absolute defensive dominance compared to Dirk's 4. Prime KG also had 5 steals, Dirk only had 9 :lol. But the most impressive thing is that KG killed Dirk in rebounding, and we all know rebounding wins games. To top it all off, Prime KG showed his ability to make plays in clutch situations, going 4 for 9 from the free throw line in the elimination game.

Add it all up and on paper Prime KG swept Dirk in that series.

[Monostradamus]

And before anyone says "Prime KG and Dirk didn't guard each other in that series :cry" I just want to say it's fucking stupid to think a dominant defensive force like Prime KG would ever be used to guard Raef Fucking LaFrentz.

[DMC]

and for whatever its worth, they also had Chauncey Billups. and for role players, they didnt exactly have complete shit, as Nesterovic, Peeler, and Trent were all giving decent bench minutes.

and obviously your dumb ass didnt realize that Hardaway nor Howard were on the Mavericks at that time :lmao

You also didn't realize it, which is why you had to post twice to mention it.


im not going to deny it, the Mavs had a better squad, but its not like it was just KG, Wally, and absolutely no help whatsoever after that. he had good enough of a team to not get swept like they did... that is, if KG was actually sooooooooooo much better than Dirk as you continue to claim. if he was that much better, they would have won at least one game, but they didnt.
No, they weren't good enough. They lost in the first round like 7 times in a row. That's not good enough to not get swept by prime Nash, Finley and Dirk (and anyone else you want to throw in there).

Anyone who's been around long enough to remember it knows that KG was in a shithole for years, but he was the highest paid player in the game, so he stuck around. It's his fault, for sure, but put KG on that Mavs team instead of Dirk and the Mavs probably at least make the WCF.

[DMC]

:lol Mav fan homerism at it's finest.

Dirk only dropped 30, 31, and 39 points in the 3 games that series. Prime KG dominated him, forcing Dirk into a weak ass 30 for 57 from the field. Dirk was also total shit on defense, getting a measly 47 rebounds in 3 games, to go along with a borderline nonexistant 9 steals and 4 blocks.

Meanwhile Prime KG shot a badass 24 of 56 from the field, and we all know 43% is as respectable a shooting percentage as there is for PF's. Meanwhile Prime KG's 5 blocks showed his absolute defensive dominance compared to Dirk's 4. Prime KG also had 5 steals, Dirk only had 9 :lol. But the most impressive thing is that KG killed Dirk in rebounding, and we all know rebounding wins games. To top it all off, Prime KG showed his ability to make plays in clutch situations, going 4 for 9 from the free throw line in the elimination game.

Add it all up and on paper Prime KG swept Dirk in that series.
Dirk didn't get respect for a reason: he was soft as fuck. He would kill you on offense, but was pretty much absent on defense. A 7 footer who can shoot the 3 is really really hard to stop on offense (and he shot it a lot back then), and he didn't do any work at the other end to tire himself out.

There's a reason he never won a ring until this year.

[Monostradamus]

and he didn't do any work at the other end

:tu as evidenced by 9 steals and 4 blocks in 3 games, something defensive force Prime KG managed to dominate with 5 and 5 of his own. Holding KG to 43% might be impressive, but we all know Dirk never guarded Prime KG, Dallas let their defensive stopper Raef LaFrentz do that.

[Monostradamus]

You also didn't realize it, which is why you had to post twice to mention it.

Yeah but you're the one who was around long enough to remember it. So how did you get that so wrong?

[FkLA]

I think if you keep saying that over and over, with nothing to back it up, it'll eventually be true!



2008
KG-1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defense, 3rd MVP Voting

yeaa im just completely pulling shit out of my ass when i say that :lol

Add to that that he was the 2nd leading scorer on the team in regular season (trailed Pierce by less than a point), leading scorer on the team in playoffs (beat Pierce by less than a point), anchor of the defense, leading rebounder, Top 3 in assist, blocks, and steals.

[FkLA]

and for whatever its worth, they also had Chauncey Billups. and for role players, they didnt exactly have complete shit, as Nesterovic, Peeler, and Trent were all giving decent bench minutes.

and obviously your dumb ass didnt realize that Hardaway nor Howard were on the Mavericks at that time :lmao

im not going to deny it, the Mavs had a better squad, but its not like it was just KG, Wally, and absolutely no help whatsoever after that. he had good enough of a team to not get swept like they did... that is, if KG was actually sooooooooooo much better than Dirk as you continue to claim. if he was that much better, they would have won at least one game, but they didnt.

Chauncey Billups :lol...real homerish of you to not mention that it was journeyman Chauncey who couldnt stick with a team, not all-star Chauncey.

Also fucking lol at somehow trying to prove that KG's cast wasnt absolute shit by mentioning Gary Trent and Anthony Peeler :lol



:tu as evidenced by 9 steals and 4 blocks in 3 games, something defensive force Prime KG managed to dominate with 5 and 5 of his own. Holding KG to 43% might be impressive, but we all know Dirk never guarded Prime KG, Dallas let their defensive stopper Raef LaFrentz do that.

LaFrentz was one of the better shot-blockers during that time tbh, and a better defender than Dirk ever was. One series doesnt change the fact that no GM in their right mind wouldve taken a prime Dirk over a prime KG. Even after Dirk 'dominated' KG that series, noone other than retarded Mav homers considered Dirk a better PF.

[DMC]

:tu as evidenced by 9 steals and 4 blocks in 3 games, something defensive force Prime KG managed to dominate with 5 and 5 of his own. Holding KG to 43% might be impressive, but we all know Dirk never guarded Prime KG, Dallas let their defensive stopper Raef LaFrentz do that.
A 7 footer can accidentally get 4 blocks in 3 games.

Raef had 5 blocks in game 1.

[badfish22]

There's a reason he never won a ring until this year.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Monostradamus]

A 7 footer can accidentally get 4 blocks in 3 games.

Raef had 5 blocks in game 1.

I guess KG's defensive dominance is why he managed to get one more than Dirk got on accident.

and :lmao at Raef LaFrentz being a good defender. Maybe when they make the Mt. Rushmore of defensive centers, they'll have a healthy debate on who is the fourth face to make it.......we all know Russell, Mutombo, and LaFrentz are locks.

[Monostradamus]

Even after Dirk 'dominated' KG that series

You don't need quotes. He did. It's a fucking statistical fact.

:lmao "Prime KG would dominate Prime Dirk"

Prime KG got ass raped by Still Developing Dirk.

[nowhereman523]

KG's so good historically that in his prime, he was left off an all-nba team.

[Axe Murderer]

Even after Dirk 'dominated' KG that series, noone other than retarded Mav homers considered Dirk a better PF.

It's true. Dominating somebody head to head certainly doesn't prove who the better player is or anything. Let's not get ahead of ourselves

[DMC]

I guess KG's defensive dominance is why he managed to get one more than Dirk got on accident.

and :lmao at Raef LaFrentz being a good defender. Maybe when they make the Mt. Rushmore of defensive centers, they'll have a healthy debate on who is the fourth face to make it.......we all know Russell, Mutombo, and LaFrentz are locks.

You seem to think there was Dirk and then there was KG, and no one else on the floor for either team.

There's a reason Dirk's career average for blocks is so low for a 7 footer.

KG's playoff average is just under 1.4 blocks per game.

Dirk's is under 1.

Dirk was not the reason KG didn't do well in that series. Tim had series were he didn't do as well as Dirk, yet no one but homers considers Dirk a better PG than Tim.

Dirk is far and away a better shooter than just about anyone in the league, if not the best. He's not a defensive presence in the paint however. No one called Tyson and Dirk the "twin towers" and for a reason.

Also, how can this not be Dirk's prime year? Didn't he win a ring this year?

When has Dirk ever been better than he his now?

The fact that he's hit his peak so late in his career is a testament to the fact that he's only a shooter.

Dirk's all defensive team nods? 0

KG's? 5 on the first team, 2 on the 2nd

Granted, Dirk's perimeter play isn't conducive to defensive stats, but you cannot have it both ways. His (and his team's) offense is also greatly affected by the fact he's an outside shooter.

Adding :lmao to your statement doesn't make it more true. Raef had more blocks than Dirk. If Raef sucks that bad, Dirk sucks even worse on defense.

[Axe Murderer]

Dirk was not the reason KG didn't do well in that series. Tim had series were he didn't do as well as Dirk, yet no one but homers considers Dirk a better PG than Tim.


But that was mainly due to Duncan falling out of his prime. Plus, it's not like Dirk has outplayed Duncan basically every time like he has with Garnett.

[DMC]

Yeah but you're the one who was around long enough to remember it. So how did you get that so wrong?
Nobody watched the Dallas games back then.

[DMC]

But that was mainly due to Duncan falling out of his prime. Plus, it's not like Dirk has outplayed Duncan basically every time like he has with Garnett.

Duncan's numbers per 36min last year were on par with his career other than points. Even then he was 3 fewer than the previous year.

Duncan has never been the scorer that Dirk has. Sure he's had moments, but his averages per season and playoffs don't match Dirk's. Duncan's prowess lies in his all around game, and that's where I argue that KG was better than Dirk in their primes.

I argue that Dirk didn't have a good defensive game in the Min series. Someone shows his blocks and I counter with Raef's blocks, at which time the same someone dismisses Raef's blocks as evidence he was a better defender than Dirk.

People are too apt to use Dirk's recent success to argue his early year greatness. It's revisionist history. The outcome of the games doesn't indicate either players' ability in relation to one another, since they did not face the same challenges.

When a player can fuel the offense AND anchor the defense, then we are talking. That's what KG did. Dirk did not.

[Axe Murderer]

There's no arguing that KG was more of a complete player than Dirk.

But ultimately you want the guy who is the more dominant player. David Robinson was a more complete player than Shaq was but you obviously (even though there's a lot of dumb beaners here that wouldn't) take Shaq over D-Rob because he was more dominant.

[Monostradamus]

I argue that Dirk didn't have a good defensive game in the Min series.

And of course you'd know this, because after all....


Nobody watched the Dallas games back then.

[Monostradamus]

If Raef sucks that bad, Dirk sucks even worse on defense.

And Prime KG still only shot 43% in the series against the twin towers of defensive suck. Because Prime KG was just so goddamn good.

So again,

-Dirk is guarded by dominant defender and all around basketball genius Prime KG.
-Prime KG is guarded by shit ass defenders.

In that scenario, it would be natural for one PF to shoot 43% and suck balls, and the other to drop 30+ every night while shooting over 50%.

If you want to talk about how Prime KG's shitty supporting cast was so bad Dallas should have swept by default, fine. Even so, please explain how Prime KG, going up against the defensive ineptitude of Dirk, LaFrentz, and Bradley, managed to suck dick offensively. And then further explain how Prime KG's defensive dominance allowed Dirk to take a big fat shit all over him in the series, meanwhile guys like Ryan fucking Bowen find ways to slow Dirk down.

[Monostradamus]

There's no arguing that KG was more of a complete player than Dirk.

But ultimately you want the guy who is the more dominant player. David Robinson was a more complete player than Shaq was but you obviously (even though there's a lot of dumb beaners here that wouldn't) take Shaq over D-Rob because he was more dominant.

tbh bad example because GNSF is retarded enough to take D-Rob over Shaq every day of the week, except on Sundays when D-Rob is busy chasing Rodman around with a Bible.

[DMC]

There's no arguing that KG was more of a complete player than Dirk.

It's not that KG was a more complete player than Dirk, but that KG's all around game was overall more effective to the team's success than Dirk's.

Like I said, the guy that can anchor both ends of the floor is my pick.

If Dirk had a good defensive game, that would obviously change things. Defense wins championships.


But ultimately you want the guy who is the more dominant player. David Robinson was a more complete player than Shaq was but you obviously (even though there's a lot of dumb beaners here that wouldn't) take Shaq over D-Rob because he was more dominant.
I would probably take Shaq over David. That's because Shaq could anchor the defense and score at will.

Would you take Durant over KG? Durant is a better scorer.

[DMC]

And Prime KG still only shot 43% in the series against the twin towers of defensive suck. Because Prime KG was just so goddamn good.

It balances out.

KG wasn't that great, but in comparison to Dirk, he was better overall. I weight defense more than offense.


So again,

-Dirk is guarded by dominant defender and all around basketball genius Prime KG.
-Prime KG is guarded by shit ass defenders.
Once again you are only using offense as a marker.


In that scenario, it would be natural for one PF to shoot 43% and suck balls, and the other to drop 30+ every night while shooting over 50%.
Offensive marker again


If you want to talk about how Prime KG's shitty supporting cast was so bad Dallas should have swept by default, fine. Even so, please explain how Prime KG, going up against the defensive ineptitude of Dirk, LaFrentz, and Bradley, managed to suck dick offensively. And then further explain how Prime KG's defensive dominance allowed Dirk to take a big fat shit all over him in the series, meanwhile guys like Ryan fucking Bowen find ways to slow Dirk down.You keep going back to Dirk's ability to score the ball. No one here has argued against that, certainly not me, and even KG cannot stop Dirk from scoring. No one can.

Dirk's offense is so good that he's considered to be a great player simply because of it. He's one of the few big men I recall who've won a Finals MVP and never been on an All NBA Defensive Team.

So for offense: Dirk

For Defense: KG

Since a team has to have both, I take KG. What he lacks in dominant offense he makes up for in defense to the point that you can put a Ray Allen and Paul Pierce around him and pretty much destroy the league. Also, you can get points from elsewhere, but no defense = no championship.

I don't think the scales of justice would tip nearly as bad if Dirk joined Ray Allen and Paul Pierce.

[Axe Murderer]

It's not that KG was a more complete player than Dirk, but that KG's all around game was overall more effective to the team's success than Dirk's.
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

A guy who never made it farther than the WCF as a lead guy was more effective than a guy who led teams to 2 Finals winning one?




Would you take Durant over KG? Durant is a better scorer.

No. When Durant actually leads a team to a title we can make that comparison

I understand that KG is a ######freak who was better at making athletic spearchucker plays in his prime while having fake intense looks on his face, but I'm gonna go with the guy who will put up even better stats and lead his team to the championship any day of the week

[DMC]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

A guy who never made it farther than the WCF as a lead guy was more effective than a guy who led teams to 2 Finals winning one?

You're moving the goalposts. Neither guy made it to the Finals that year.


No. When Durant actually leads a team to a title we can make that comparison
According to you, KG did not lead a team to a title so the comparison is valid.

Neither of you can avoid using these logical fallacies. One of you sets the condition, then the other violates it in support of the first.

KG's offense was better than Dirk's defense. Dirk's offense was not better than KG's defense. That is to say, Dirk did not stop KG from scoring and could not stop KG from scoring. No one can stop Dirk from scoring because of his size and technique. However, KG can get stops that Dirk cannot, and KG can score the ball fairly well. The edge for Dirk is only in offense, and it's not as great as the defensive edge that KG holds.

KG is probably the best defender in the last 10 years or so. Dirk is maybe 2nd or 3rd best in offense, if that.

All Defensive Teams do not predicate themselves on mean facial expressions and chest beating.


I understand that KG is a ######freak who was better at making athletic spearchucker plays in his prime while having fake intense looks on his face, but I'm gonna go with the guy who will put up even better stats and lead his team to the championship any day of the weekBetter offensive stats. Try to keep it honest.

[Monostradamus]

Once again you are only using offense as a marker.

No I'm not. Every time I mention Dirk's offense, it automatically means Prime KG's defense comes into question. If Prime KG was so superior defensively, how did Dirk drop 30+ every night shooting over 50% from the floor?

Conversely, if Prime KG had subpar defenders on him all series, how does that explain his shit ass shooting percentage, missed free throws, turnovers (12 TO's in a 3 games series :lmao), etc?

In the end, in that series, Dirk dominated at one end of the floor and, despite the stats saying otherwise, I'll humor you and say he was subpar on defense.

Meanwhile, Prime KG was dog shit at both ends of the floor, clearly indicated by his offensive numbers, plus the numbers put up by the man he was defending.

Mathematically it looks like this -

1 + 0 = 1

0 + 0 = 0

meaning 1>0

therefore, Still Developing Dirk dominated Prime KG

[FkLA]

There's no arguing that KG was more of a complete player than Dirk.

But ultimately you want the guy who is the more dominant player. David Robinson was a more complete player than Shaq was but you obviously (even though there's a lot of dumb beaners here that wouldn't) take Shaq over D-Rob because he was more dominant.

Why do yall retarded homers keep using that example? Shaq's dominance was much greater than Dirk's ever was, just offensively. On top of that Shaq was a defensive prescence inside, he blocked and altered alot of shots. He was also a superior rebounder. He has 3 2nd Team All-Defense selctions, and a 2nd place finish for DPOY. The nigga was lazy and couldve had alot more selections but regardless of that trying to put him in the same one-dimensional light as Dirk is just stupid and desperate. But maybe if you keep saying it enough with nothing to back it up it will come true!

[Monostradamus]

Since a team has to have both, I take KG. What he lacks in dominant offense he makes up for in defense to the point that you can put a Ray Allen and Paul Pierce around him and pretty much destroy the league. Also, you can get points from elsewhere, but no defense = no championship.

I don't think the scales of justice would tip nearly as bad if Dirk joined Ray Allen and Paul Pierce.

:lmao one title in 4 years and they "destroy" the league? You're reaching hard, brah.

[FkLA]

Also since when does one series determine who the better player is, god damn these homers latch on to anything to protect their beloved Dirk :lol...I guess B-Diddy was a better player and leader than Dirk since he and his Warriors completely pushed Dallas' shit in in 07'.

[Monostradamus]

Also since when does one series determine who the better player is, god damn these homers latch on to anything to protect their beloved Dirk :lol...I guess B-Diddy was a better player and leader than Dirk since he and his Warriors completely pushed Dallas' shit in in 07'.

If Dirk and Baron Davis played the same position and guarded each other in the series, your point might not be completely retarded.

If you want to say Baron Davis is better than Devin Harris, be my guest.

[FkLA]

Yall niggas need to stick to regulating and your crew battles cause your takes are absolute shit and dripping with Dirk's cum. Notice how mostly all non-Mav posters have said KG>Dirk. Youve had Spurs, Cs, Pistons, Cavs, and Lakers fans all give their take and basically everyone rates KG higher. But I guess all of them are wrong and butthurt, right ?

[Monostradamus]

btw all I'm arguing is the fuckin mongoloids who said Prime KG would "dominate" Prime Dirk head to head. It already happened and Still Developing Dirk kicked the living shit out of Prime KG in their head to head matchup (not even looking at the score of the game, just their individual matchup).

[Monostradamus]

Yall niggas need to stick to regulating and your crew battles cause your takes are absolute shit and dripping with Dirk's cum. Notice how mostly all non-Mav posters have said Dirk>KG. Youve had Spurs, Cs, Pistons, Cavs, and Lakers fans all give their take and basically everyone rates KG higher. But I guess all of them are wrong and butthurt, right ?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131901

lol 99 to 39

[DMC]

:lmao one title in 4 years and they "destroy" the league? You're reaching hard, brah.
That year they did destroy the league. They came through Texas and beat the fuck out of everyone including your precious Dirk.

[FkLA]

If Dirk and Baron Davis played the same position and guarded each other in the series, your point might not be completely retarded.

If you want to say Baron Davis is better than Devin Harris, be my guest.

I dont think I said B-Diddy was a better PF and leader dipshit. I said hes a better player and leader. Theyre both players, they dont have to play the same position to compare their impact on the game. So does that series and how brutally the Warriors and Davis pushed Dallas shit in, make him a better player and leader than Dirk?



http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131901

lol 99 to 39

homer :lmao:lmao:lmao

That's a who would you pick now poll made after the 2009 Finals. Even I said Dirk has been the better player since after the 2008 season. We're talking all-time though retard.

[nowhereman523]

Why did KG miss an all-nba team in his prime? If you wanna talk revisionist history, lets talk about all this nonsense that KG was ever a "dominant" player.

[nowhereman523]

And if no one was watching Dallas games back in 02-03, no one sure as hell was watching T-wolves games. You weren't watching the games, you're not gonna go by the clear cut results.. just let it go.

[DMC]

No I'm not. Every time I mention Dirk's offense, it automatically means Prime KG's defense comes into question. If Prime KG was so superior defensively, how did Dirk drop 30+ every night shooting over 50% from the floor?

Dirk has scored 30+ in games against many different teams in the playoffs, even when his team has been swept. Does that mean the opponent's defense was shitty?

You are still using Dirk's scoring as a marker.




Conversely, if Prime KG had subpar defenders on him all series, how does that explain his shit ass shooting percentage, missed free throws, turnovers (12 TO's in a 3 games series :lmao), etc?
You are pretending Dirk was defending KG.


In the end, in that series, Dirk dominated at one end of the floor and, despite the stats saying otherwise, I'll humor you and say he was subpar on defense.
The stats don't say otherwise if you take his entire team into account and do the same for Dirk. It wasn't one on one.


Meanwhile, Prime KG was dog shit at both ends of the floor, clearly indicated by his offensive numbers, plus the numbers put up by the man he was defending.
Raef was guarding KG. Dirk never guards the big man on the other teams because he cannot. This gives Dirk the freedom and mobility to roam and shoot over smaller defenders and this is why TC was required in Dallas before Dallas could get over the hump.

Meanwhile KG has a shitload of All NBA First Defensive Team selections and second team selections. He also has All NBA Team selections (9).

Dirk has one more All NBA Team selection than KG.

Is the selection committee that biased for that long?


Mathematically it looks like this -

1 + 0 = 1

0 + 0 = 0

meaning 1>0

therefore, Still Developing Dirk dominated Prime KGWhen you resort to the Culby response, you've already admitted defeat.

So if I point out to you that Dirk scored a ton of points against Denver but won only one game, you will point to Dirk's teammates as the reason, however when Dirk scores a ton of points and wins the game, it's the piss poor defense of the competition.

Also, if KG's defense is so poor, what's the big deal that Dirk scored?

[DMC]

Why did KG miss an all-nba team in his prime? If you wanna talk revisionist history, lets talk about all this nonsense that KG was ever a "dominant" player.

The same way Dirk missed the All Defense team his entire career.

[Axe Murderer]

Why do yall retarded homers keep using that example? Shaq's dominance was much greater than Dirk's ever was

Because Dirk was more dominant than Garnett. It's no wonder your dumbass goes to UTSA

[Axe Murderer]

You're moving the goalposts. Neither guy made it to the Finals that year.

We're comparing their careers



According to you, KG did not lead a team to a title so the comparison is valid.


No, I just think Garnett was better than Durant.




KG's offense was better than Dirk's defense. Dirk's offense was not better than KG's defense.

So?


KG is probably the best defender in the last 10 years or so. Dirk is maybe 2nd or 3rd best in offense, if that.

So?

[nowhereman523]

The same way Dirk missed the All Defense team his entire career.

Nice try homey. One of them only measures how good you are on one side of the ball. The other is a rough barometer for your stature as a player. KG called out Dirk, saying the 'black angel' was gonna pick him up 94 feet. How'd that work out for him?

Also, Dirk's never been swept. Nice try again.

My guess is that Dirk's gonna be on 4+ all NBA teams more than KG by the time he's hung them up. Cuz you know, he has always been selected to them as recognition for being one of the best power forwards in the game.

Don't buy the hype. Just cuz ppl never watched "prime" KG because he was never playing in any big games, doesn't mean his inflated stats on bad teams mean anything.

[FkLA]

Because Dirk was more dominant than Garnett. It's no wonder your dumbass goes to UTSA

Shaq's offensive dominance alone isnt what makes him a better player than Robinson dumbass. Its that coupled with the fact that he was a defensive presence inside by blocking and altering shots, and the fact that he was a dominant rebounder. Shaq even at his worst wasnt as one-dimensional as Dirk is, and he certainly wasnt as one-dimensional as Dirk when he was getting All-Defense nods and finishing 2nd for DPOY.

Dirk , he doesnt have any type of defensive presence and hes an average rebounder at best. His offensive dominance alone isnt enough to override KG's great all-around game. Theres a huge difference between your Drob/Shaq comparison and this KG/Dirk comparison, only a complete retard with Dirk's cum dripping down their mouth doesnt see the difference.

[Axe Murderer]

tell me more

[badfish22]

Give fkla a break. Hes been scarred for life.

[FkLA]

tell me more

You trolled me! No wonder youre a legend! Argument over, I guess that means Dirk>KG :depressed

[DMC]

Nice try homey. One of them only measures how good you are on one side of the ball. The other is a rough barometer for your stature as a player. KG called out Dirk, saying the 'black angel' was gonna pick him up 94 feet. How'd that work out for him?

Also, Dirk's never been swept. Nice try again.

My guess is that Dirk's gonna be on 4+ all NBA teams more than KG by the time he's hung them up. Cuz you know, he has always been selected to them as recognition for being one of the best power forwards in the game.

Don't buy the hype. Just cuz ppl never watched "prime" KG because he was never playing in any big games, doesn't mean his inflated stats on bad teams mean anything.
Because your opinion trumps the opinions of professionals and pundits all around the world.

[DMC]

Give fkla a break. Hes been scarred for life.
You're the most consummate cum guzzling legrider on this forum, and that's saying a lot.

[Axe Murderer]

Dirk>KG

:tu

Glad we agree!

[DMC]

We're comparing their careers


Tim is the greatest PF of all time. The rest are in his shadow so it's hard to tell the difference.



No, I just think Garnett was better than Durant.

Why? Let's see that double standard.


So?



So?
So I would take a prime KG over this year's Dirk (prime Dirk since he's just a scorer you can just pick a year).

[DPG21920]

You're the most consummate cum guzzling legrider on this forum, and that's saying a lot.

How many GNSF things can you come up with? Also, how embarrassed would you be if someone from the real world read what you just posted and realized this is how a grown adult spends his time?

The argument for KG or Dirk is a valid one, but you are so dumb you can't make it. This doesn't make you a bad human or anything, it simply means you shouldn't try and argue because you automatically lose.

[DMC]

How many GNSF things can you come up with? Also, how embarrassed would you be if someone from the real world read what you just posted and realized this is how a grown adult spends his time?

I didn't realize these people don't exist in the "real world".

What's wrong, little man syndrome got you down?

Someone says "GNSF" as if it's a status marker and then mentions "grown adult" in the same paragraph.


The argument for KG or Dirk is a valid one, but you are so dumb you can't make it. This doesn't make you a bad human or anything, it simply means you shouldn't try and argue because you automatically lose.And you are so enamored by me that you cannot avoid me, huh shorty?

Did I overlook you in the post you quoted? If so I apologize.

[FkLA]

:tu

Glad we agree!

You trolled me, and thus proved that Dirk was better...how could I not agree?

[DPG21920]

That doesn't make any sense. I can link to a post that you posted about me where I wasn't in the thread, does that make you enamored with me?

[DMC]

That doesn't make any sense. I can link to a post that you posted about me where I wasn't in the thread, does that make you enamored by me?
Yes, I am attracted to spinners.

[DPG21920]

That doesn't make any sense, just like your posts and dumb arguments. Keep coming up with terrible takes and being extremely not funny :tu

[BlackSwordsMan]

Hey we're all TLC lets stop fighting. :cry

[DMC]

That doesn't make any sense, just like your posts and dumb arguments. Keep coming up with terrible takes and being extremely not funny :tu
Because my number one agenda is to entertain you.

And you keep coon dogging me from thread to thread because I basically told you to go fuck yourself with your "don't post" tripe. That's much more BNSF like.

Whatever it is, something compels you to respond. You are not a good example of how to not be trolled.

[BlackSwordsMan]

:cry stop it!

[DPG21920]

That doesn't make sense. You aren't trolling. You're just dumb.

[badfish22]

You're the most consummate cum guzzling legrider on this forum, and that's saying a lot.

:lol I realize that I use other peoples shticks on the regular, I do it on purpose for the :lols.
But that's not near as bad as being a generic GNSF who constantly bitches about the RK yet uses ALL of their shtick. That's just shameless.
Grow up and start acting your age instead of just talking about it.

[DMC]

That doesn't make sense. You aren't trolling. You're just dumb.
You're so cute when you get all angry and Shirley Temple like... toss your hair again.

[DMC]

:lol I realize that I use other peoples shticks on the regular, I do it on purpose for the :lols.
But that's not near as bad as being a generic GNSF who constantly bitches about the RK yet uses ALL of their shtick. That's just shameless.
Grow up and start acting your age instead of just talking about it.
:lmao generic
:lmao looking for approval
:lmao RK

[DPG21920]

That doesn't make sense. You are the one that is getting mad calling people names and telling them to "go f themselves".

lol being old and senile and not able to figure out trolling

lol getting tolled

lol being old and posting like a GNSF online

lol too ashamed to show your grandchildren your posts on ST

lol having to respond to me and to justify your shittiness to me

lol can't stop responding and posting emoticons

lol having to reply to everyone of Kool's threads

lol thinking all trolls are Dok

lol ashamed of your actions on here

[DPG21920]

For as shitty as BadTakes is, DMC is so much worse.

He actually is the generic version of a GNSF which is shocking for a GNSF

I tell her not to post, she responds:

"Ummm, don't you know that posting in the thread telling me not to posts IS THE SAME THING :lmao :lol :lmao"

I tell her she can't stop responding, she says:

"You are just seeking attention, hey everyone look at me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lmao :lmao"

I clearly take advantage of her terrible intellect, she says:

"Get off my vagina bro :lol, you are obsessed with me :rollin :lmao"

DMC is like the really dumb mascot for GNSF and is the reason this board is struggling. DMC would be absolutely ashamed if anyone that was in his life that did not post on ST saw the type of posts he writes amiwrong?

[nowhereman523]

Because your opinion trumps the opinions of professionals and pundits all around the world.

Professionals already spoke. They voted Dirk to an all-nba team and left KG off it in his prime. You're really stretching dude. This conversation has left me more convinced than ever that it's not even close between the two.