Failed Gun Sting... all the way to Obama?

[Wild Cobra]

I didn't catch the whole interview, but a local radio talk show host was interviewing a guy who seems to have some facts on the Guns our government sold to Mexican drug cartels to trace. Seems it leads to our Secretary of States office, and maybe Hillary. Janet Napolitano was definitely involved, and speculation has it Obama was too.

How many heads may roll?

I haven't checked any facts yet, but maybe someone here is interested in doing so.

[DMC]

They couldn't have gotten the guns anywhere else.... guns are so hard to come by in South America.

[scott]

I haven't checked any facts yet, but maybe someone here is interested in doing so.

[ChumpDumper]

Wow!

Talk radio!

[ManuBalboa]

They already have a scapegoat. Nothing else is going to happen. Just business.

[boutons_deux]

"How many heads may roll?"

Note that the guys immediately responsible for this fiasco weren't fired, just re-assigned.

One you get above the poor whites, blacks, browns, there really is no more accountability for fuckups, crimes, malfeasance (eg: the banksters).

With no penalty, there is no motivation to be competent or legal.

[Trainwreck2100]

this nigga be trollin tbqh

[Spurminator]

:lmao

[FromWayDowntown]

Where's that picture of the boy and his dog praying together that timvp posts annually when Manu gets hurt?

[Bartleby]

WC bringing the full context goods.

[CosmicCowboy]

They already have a scapegoat. Nothing else is going to happen. Just business.

X2

I personally suspect that "Fast and Furious" was intentionally orchestrated to "prove" that US guns were involved in Mexico drug violence in an attempt to bend public pressure to strengthening gun laws and imposing additional gun bans.

When the BP Agent was killed with F&F guns (instead of Mexican druggies) it threw a huge wrench into their plans and they went into full bore cover up mode to bury their shit.

And yeah, I believe knowledge went to the highest level of the Justice Department and State (if not Obama) but it will never be proven.

[Wild Cobra]

And yeah, I believe knowledge went to the highest level of the Justice Department and State (if not Obama) but it will never be proven.
From what I heard, it's close to proving some connections.

Just have to wait and see.

[Wild Cobra]

I'll throw some speculative odds out there.

I'll say about a 30% chance Hillary knew.

I'll say about a 75% chance Obama new.

I'll say about a 95% chance Napolitano knew.

will any of them be brought down?

Maybe 50% chance of one or more cabinet member being caught.

[ElNono]

You got all that from local radio talk show?

[Wild Cobra]

You got all that from local radio talk show?
What is it with you?

The speculation is mine. Based on a few random thoughts of these people. I give Hillary credit for enough intelligence to not likely be part of this.

[ElNono]

What is it with you?

The speculation is mine. Based on a few random thoughts of these people. I give Hillary credit for enough intelligence to not likely be part of this.

Just asking. Don't get all butthurt about it.

[Wild Cobra]

Just asking. Don't get all butthurt about it.
Not butthurt. Just tired of you always harassing me.

[ChumpDumper]

Just to be clear, you don't know what you're talking about.

[FromWayDowntown]

Wild Cobra's speculation = always well-informed, wholly in context, and not in need of factual support

Anyone else's speculation = always biased, never in context, always in need of factual support

Questioning Wild Cobra's speculation = harassment

Wild Cobra questioning anyone else's speculation = ensuring balance

[Spurminator]

I personally suspect that "Fast and Furious" was intentionally orchestrated to "prove" that US guns were involved in Mexico drug violence in an attempt to bend public pressure to strengthening gun laws and imposing additional gun bans.

I personally think that's pretty far-fetched.

Tracking, sure... Planting guns with cartels because you're so ideologically anti-guns that you want to increase gun violence to prove a point? There's not enough money to be made with gun legislation for me to buy that theory.

[Agloco]

I haven't checked any facts yet, but maybe someone here is interested in doing so.

:lol

Classic.

[DMC]

Gun legislation is a tough one because there's opposition on both sides. Many Democrats are gun owners, especially Southern Dems.

[ElNono]

Not butthurt. Just tired of you always harassing me.

IOW, butthurt :lol

[boutons_deux]

100s went to jail for the S&L fiasco, dozens of LAWYERS went to jail for the filthy Repug Nixon's WH, but criminals and fuckups don't even get fired these days.

American Officials Enjoy Lives Without Shame

Once upon a time, there was a specific word to describe the misdeed of an officeholder or custodian of trust who had betrayed his or her duties: malfeasance.

That word, originating from ancient Latin, can be translated into modern English to mean a “bad doing.”

If you believe the old tales, malfeasance once was an offense that carried stiff penalties: public humiliation, social ostracism, and civil or criminal sanctions.

And in traditional cultures with shame, a disgraced official would resign—or worse.

No longer, it seems.

Three recent news headlines allege some pretty horrifying behavior and illustrate how shameless some American officials have become when it comes to breaking the rules or messing up and pretending that everything is still OK. They also prove that in modern America, if you have the right connections, it’s possible for screwups to continue their lives and careers with hardly a blip.

People are allowed to make mistakes. And I don’t believe in silly doctrines like zero-tolerance or police-state surveillance.

But individuals who have previously displayed poor judgment or a lack of oversight should not be placed in charge of investigations, and institutions with a culture of corruption occasionally must be rebooted from zero.

In a culture where shame is passé, we must ask often: Who is watching the watchers?

http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/american_officials_enjoy_lives_without_shame_20110 902/

[Oh, Gee!!]

ballistics show Obama hisself shooted off this here gun, and then gave it to a wetback to murder a pregant white lady

[CosmicCowboy]

HOLY SHIT! The FBI furnished the money to buy the "Fast and furious" guns?


Executive Branch - POLITICS
EXCLUSIVE: Third Gun Linked to 'Fast and Furious' Identified at Border Agent's Murder Scene
By William Lajeunesse
Published September 09, 2011

A third gun linked to "Operation Fast and Furious" was found at the murder scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, new documents obtained exclusively by Fox News suggest, contradicting earlier assertions by federal agencies that police found only two weapons tied to the federal government's now infamous gun interdiction scandal.
Sources say emails support their contention that the FBI concealed evidence to protect a confidential informant. Sources close to the Terry case say the FBI informant works inside a major Mexican cartel and provided the money to obtain the weapons used to kill Terry.

This undated photo provided by U.S. Customs and Border Protection shows U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian A. Terry. Terry was fatally shot north of the Arizona-Mexico border while trying to catch bandits who target undocumented immigrants, the leader of a union representing agents said Wednesday, Dec. 15, 2010.

Unlike the two AK-style assault weapons found at the scene, the third weapon could more easily be linked to the informant. To prevent that from happening, sources say, the third gun "disappeared."
In addition to the emails obtained by Fox News, an audio recording from a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agent investigating the Terry case seems to confirm the existence of a third weapon. In that conversation, the agent refers to an "SKS assault rifle out of Texas" found at the Terry murder scene south of Tucson.
The FBI refused to answer a detailed set of questions submitted to officials by Fox News. Instead, agency spokesman Paul Bresson said, "The Brian Terry investigation is still ongoing so I cannot comment." Bresson referred Fox News to court records that only identify the two possible murder weapons.
However, in the hours after Terry was killed on Dec. 14, 2010, several emails written to top ATF officials suggest otherwise.
In one, an intelligence analyst writes that by 7:45 p.m. -- about 21 hours after the shooting -- she had successfully traced two weapons at the scene, and is now "researching the trace status of firearms recovered earlier today by the FBI."
In another email, deputy ATF-Phoenix director George Gillett asks: "Are those two (AK-47s) in addition to the gun already recovered this morning?"
The two AK-type assault rifles were purchased by Jaime Avila from the Lone Wolf Trading Co. outside of Phoenix on Jan. 16, 2010. Avila was recruited by his roommate Uriel Patino. Patino, according to sources, received $70,000 in "seed money" from the FBI informant late in 2009 to buy guns for the cartel.
According to a memo from Assistant U.S. Attorney Emory Hurley, who oversaw the operation, Avila began purchasing firearms in November 2009, shortly after Patino, who ultimately purchased more than 600 guns and became the largest buyer of guns in Operation Fast and Furious.
Months ago, congressional investigators developed information that both the FBI and DEA not only knew about the failed gun operation, but that they may be complicit in it. House Government Reform and Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, R-Calif., and Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, fired off letters in July requesting specific details from FBI director Robert Mueller and Drug Enforcement Administration chief Michele Leonhart.
"In recent weeks, we have learned of the possible involvement of paid FBI informants in Operation Fast and Furious," Issa and Grassley wrote to Mueller. "Specifically, at least one individual who is allegedly an FBI informant might have been in communication with, and was perhaps even conspiring with, at least one suspect whom ATF was monitoring."
Sources say the FBI is using the informants in a national security investigation. The men were allegedly debriefed by the FBI at a safe house in New Mexico last year.
Sources say the informants previously worked for the DEA and U.S. Marshall's Office but their contracts were terminated because the men were "stone-cold killers." The FBI however stopped their scheduled deportation because their high ranks within the cartel were useful.
In their July letter, Issa and Grassley asked Mueller if any of those informants were ever deported by the DEA or any other law enforcement entity and how they were repatriated.
Asked about the content of the emails, a former federal prosecutor who viewed them expressed shock.
"I have never seen anything like this. I can see the FBI may have an informant involved but I can't see them tampering with evidence. If this is all accurate, I'm stunned," the former prosecutor said.
“This information confirms what our sources were saying all along -- that the FBI was covering up the true circumstances of the murder of Brian Terry," added Mike Vanderboegh, an authority on the Fast and Furious investigation who runs a whistleblower website called Sipsey Street.
"It also confirms that the FBI was at least as culpable, and perhaps more culpable, than the ATF in the (Fast and Furious) scandal, and that there was some guiding hand above both these agencies (and the other agencies involved) coordinating the larger operation," Vanderboegh said.
Asked about the new evidence, Terry family attorney Pat McGroder said, "The family wants answers. They'd like to put this to rest and put closure to exactly what happened to Brian."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/09/exclusive-third-gun-linked-to-fast-and-furious-identified-at-border-agents/#ixzz1XTo6qRSp

[ChumpDumper]

lol guiding hand

[Yonivore]

ballistics show Obama hisself shooted off this here gun, and then gave it to a wetback to murder a pregant white lady
I believe an investigation will eventually show Eric Holder signed off on the idiotic plan.

I also believe the whole plot was designed to feed the narrative that U.S. guns are fueling the violence in Mexico. A position with which Obama has been sympathetic.

[ChumpDumper]

I believe an investigation will eventually show Eric Holder signed off on the idiotic plan.

I also believe the whole plot was designed to feed the narrative that U.S. guns are fueling the violence in Mexico. A position with which Obama has been sympathetic.Are they still translating the documents in Iraq?

[boutons_deux]

"U.S. guns are fueling the violence in Mexico"

That's a fact.

proxy buyers are stocking up at gun stores and private dealers along the southwest border states and muling to MX or just to local drug operators.

The NRA, the guns and ammo industry, and 2nd Amendment whiner scam is all about the $$$, not about "rights" or "freedom" or "home/self defense".

I suppose there are some profoundly stupid, ignorant gun fetishists, Yoni?, who still believe Barry intends to take all their guns and ammo because he's going to install a Sharia govt. :lol

Remember the exhaustion of ammo inventory just after Barry was sworn in? That was all about the NRA and gun industry generating $$$, not based on any Barry fact or program.

[Wild Cobra]

"U.S. guns are fueling the violence in Mexico"

That's a fact.

proxy buyers are stocking up at gun stores and private dealers along the southwest border states and muling to MX or just to local drug operators.

The NRA, the guns and ammo industry, and 2nd Amendment whiner scam is all about the $$$, not about "rights" or "freedom" or "home/self defense".

I suppose there are some profoundly stupid, ignorant gun fetishists, Yoni?, who still believe Barry intends to take all their guns and ammo because he's going to install a Sharia govt. :lol

Remember the exhaustion of ammo inventory just after Barry was sworn in? That was all about the NRA and gun industry generating $$$, not based on any Barry fact or program.
Fact or not, you have to have a willing criminal in the USA with access to guns to sell them. The typical citizen can't get that many. The government can get ridiculous numbers.

It's simple. Don't commit a gun trade crime in America. The government doesn't like competition. Can't be putting these government agents out of work now, can we?

[boutons_deux]

"you have to have a willing criminal in the USA"

About 50K licensed gun dealers:

"The number of gun dealers in America has dropped by 194,998 since 1994 according to a new study released today by the Violence Policy Center (VPC). The study (see http://www.vpc.org/studies/dealers07.pdf) found that the number of Type 1 Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs) plummeted 79 percent: from 245,628 in 1994 to 50,630 in 2007"

http://www.vpc.org/press/0708ffl.htm

How many do you think are sometimes/frequently selling guns to proxy buyers? the same percentage of welfare people that do drugs 2%? that 1000 crooked gun dealers, then throw in the unlicensed private guns dealers.

It's overwhelmingly above all a fucking business, legal or illegal, not about 2nd Amendment crap.

[Wild Cobra]

"you have to have a willing criminal in the USA"

About 50K licensed gun dealers:

"The number of gun dealers in America has dropped by 194,998 since 1994 according to a new study released today by the Violence Policy Center (VPC). The study (see http://www.vpc.org/studies/dealers07.pdf) found that the number of Type 1 Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs) plummeted 79 percent: from 245,628 in 1994 to 50,630 in 2007"

http://www.vpc.org/press/0708ffl.htm

How many do you think are sometimes/frequently selling guns to proxy buyers? the same percentage of welfare people that do drugs 2%? that 1000 crooked gun dealers, then throw in the unlicensed private guns dealers.

It's overwhelmingly above all a fucking business, legal or illegal, not about 2nd Amendment crap.
Data without reason...

How many do you think purchased other dealers out?

How many do you think had failed businesses in this economy?

Then....

You assume they are illegally selling quantity. Sure, a few can get slipped by, but you think the feds are going to not notice quantities?

Maybe your rational is that the Feds made them fail due to competition, where the Feds sold more, and cut into their profits?

That's some pretty harsh allegations to make about the dealers with zero evidence.

[Wild Cobra]

LOL...

At least the city liberals can't take away all our freedoms in Oregon:

today only five states have more gun dealers than gas stations: Alaska; Idaho; Montana; Oregon; and, Wyoming.

[ElNono]

So you're backing down from your contention that civilians don't have access to that many weapons?

[Wild Cobra]

So you're backing down from your contention that civilians don't have access to that many weapons?
I guess we do in five states.

I never said we didn't have access. I think the government in some cases makes it too difficult to own a gun. I'll bet the biggest number of cuts were the "kitchen table dealers," of which most I bet were legal citizens not committing crimes, but to reduce the red tape for personal purchases.

Thing is with criminals, they will always find a way around the law. Laws and regulations create better criminals. Need to hit them hard when caught, and with illegal gun sales, maybe apply the death penalty.

[ElNono]

The typical citizen can't get that many.


I never said we didn't have access.

[ElNono]

Thing is with criminals, they will always find a way around the law.

Well, they wouldn't be criminals if they didn't go around the law in the first place, right?


Laws and regulations create better criminals.

Care to back this up?

[Wild Cobra]

Care to back this up?
Some things are truths of nature. It isn't only the Marines that "Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome." Just about any smart person can.

[ElNono]

Some things are truths of nature.

IOW, you can't back that up. Didn't think you could.

[Wild Cobra]

IOW, you can't back that up. Didn't think you could.
You want me to back up common sense?

[ElNono]

You want me to back up common sense?

Back up it's "common sense"

[CosmicCowboy]

In the fast and furious case the system worked as designed, it was the government that acted disfunctionally and marginally illegally. The gun dealer CALLED the ATF and notified them he suspected (but as an ordinary citizen with no investigative authority couldn't say for sure) his customer was making straw purchases and that they should check the guy out.