Another Tim Duncan thread

[Leetonidas]

4× NBA Champion (1999, 2003, 2005, 2007)
3× NBA Finals MVP (1999, 2003, 2005)
2× NBA Most Valuable Player (2002–2003)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1998)
13× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2011)
9× All-NBA First Team (1998–2005, 2007)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2006, 2008–2009)
All-NBA Third Team (2010)
8× All-Defensive First Team (1999–2003, 2005, 2007–2008)
5× All-Defensive Second Team (1998, 2004, 2006, 2009–2010)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1998)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2000)
USBWA College Player of the Year (1997)
Naismith College Player of the Year (1997)
John Wooden Award (1997)
2× ACC Player of the Year (1996–1997)


As far as individual success goes, Duncan has more MVPs and Finals MVPs than Kobe Bryant, more playoff appearences, the only player in history to win at least 2 titles without an All-NBA player in that season, and the only player to be selected to All-NBA and All-Defense in his first 13 seasons.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-3

#3 Finals performance ever. Where's Kobe? :lol At #15 with his best while Merlin has two in the top 11. :toast

Discuss.

[Nathan89]

"Player of the decade". SI

[Giuseppe]

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Merlin: 4

Just checkin' assholes.

[Leetonidas]

Irrelevant. We've been over this. Tom Heinsohn and K.C. Jones as well as Robert Horry and Steve Kerr have as many or more titles than Bean. Being a role player doesn't afford you that status, sorry Cubby. So we're going on individual accomplishments to determine who is better, and for someone who is supposedly so much of a better individual player than Timmy, he sure is dominated in the individual accolades department. :toast

[GLAAD Committee]

4× NBA Champion (1999, 2003, 2005, 2007)
3× NBA Finals MVP (1999, 2003, 2005)
2× NBA Most Valuable Player (2002–2003)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1998)
13× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2011)
9× All-NBA First Team (1998–2005, 2007)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2006, 2008–2009)
All-NBA Third Team (2010)
8× All-Defensive First Team (1999–2003, 2005, 2007–2008)
5× All-Defensive Second Team (1998, 2004, 2006, 2009–2010)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1998)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2000)
USBWA College Player of the Year (1997)
Naismith College Player of the Year (1997)
John Wooden Award (1997)
2× ACC Player of the Year (1996–1997)

You forgot to mention he's a Level 59 Druid too, probably his proudest accomplishment

[Axe Murderer]

the only player in history to win at least 2 titles without an All-NBA player in that season

Hakeem Olajuwon says hi

[Leetonidas]

C'mon I'm sure he's a higher level than that.

[Leetonidas]

Hakeem Olajuwon says hi

I didn't realize Clyde Drexler wasn't a third-teamer that year :wow











(he was. lol bump)

[GLAAD Committee]

I'm impressed with the amount of Tim Duncan semen you've ingested. I'd like to welcome you as a card-carrying member of GLAAD:toast

[Leetonidas]

It wasn't easy. My stomach is still rather upset.

[Koolaid_Man]

Dont forget Dungeons and Dragons King

[djohn2oo8]

lol Lee is MAD

[Leetonidas]

I think seething is a better word :madrun

[Giuseppe]

Irrelevant. We've been over this. Tom Heinsohn and K.C. Jones as well as Robert Horry and Steve Kerr have as many or more titles than Bean. Being a role player doesn't afford you that status, sorry Cubby. So we're going on individual accomplishments to determine who is better, and for someone who is supposedly so much of a better individual player than Timmy, he sure is dominated in the individual accolades department. :toast

We never talked about this at 4-3 Merlin. Ipso facto:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Merlin: 4

is stand alone as well.

[Leetonidas]

Pretty sure you joined after the 2009 finals, so I never got a chance :cry

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Hakeem Olajuwon says hi
Tbh the impressive thing about 1994 Dream was that he basically, had the offensive responsibility Dirk had on last year's Mavs team AND the defensive responsibility of Tyson Chandler on last year's Mavs team.

1994 Hakeem might be the most impressive individual season ever.

[Killakobe81]

Sure there are Kobe/dunmcan fans that overarate BOTh players ...

But the spur fans need to slam Bryant to raise Duncan is pretty damn comical, damn nearly "criminal".

Some Kobe fans diminish shaq and Pau's contributions to Kobe's rings ...while duncan devotees overestimate those same players.

Duncan disciples act as though duncan had the Washington Generals as team-mates but upstairs argue that even though Kobe may have some advantages they would have the uber-competitive Manu over Kobe because he is more clutch and "classy" (of course) ...
And that Parker could be a star with an offense built around him ... I have read pretty much the above upstairs, though Manu and Parker have their detractors as well.

again BOTH players are all-timers, most consider Kobe the greater player but there are some folks inside b-ball (especialy those in to advance metrics) that prefer Tim.

Those on either side that act like it's not close ... are full of shit. But that being said ... Since Kobe has clearly been the better player since 2007 and the gap between their productivity has widened ... If it was (as I and many others thought beforethe past 4 seasons when i had Duncan ahead) how can Kobe NOT be the greater player now, when everything is looked at as a whole (career wise).

If someone on here, can make a serious non troll argument on here, I would love to hear it. duncan is still effective and efficent but we all know his last ASG nod or any other honor last year was bull-shit. Sure, Kobe didnt deserve all NBA defense either but his ALL-NBA and ASG start were both well deserved.

Posting duncan's accomplishments are very impressive but the last meaningful of those were earned in 2007 ...things have been declining at a more acclereated rate for duncan than it has for Kobe ever since ...

Since duncan's last ring:

Kobe has 2 rings
2 finals MVp's
3 finals appearances
Led his team to a headtohead playoff win over duncan's Spurs
2 all-star MVP's
He has not been left off 1st team all-NBA ...


Like i said many times ... BOTH are great. It's like picking between Bird and Magic but just like those 2 Bird stopped showing up in the finals in 1987 ... While Magic picked up 1 more ring, and two more finals appearances along with a couple MVP awards ....

Bird was on track to be the greater player but age/injuries derailed Bird just as it seems to have done to duncan. In 2007 duncan wa sthe better player not by a huge amount but clearly so. Now it's Kobe by a notch, and that notch is getting bigger. No disgarace there. Time just hit him sooner than Bryant.

[Killakobe81]

I say all the above conceding that Duncan has been the more consistent Finals performer dont get me wrong 2005 and 2007 were not his best work ...

But Kobe's has been even more uneven ...great games and really poor shoting ones ...

[Leetonidas]

I would take Kobe over Ginobili on the Spurs any day of the week. Tim + Kobe would have at least 10 rings.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I say all the above conceding that Duncan has been the more consistent Finals performer dont get me wrong 2005 and 2007 were not his best work ...

But Kobe's has been even more uneven ...great games and really poor shoting ones ...
I generally hate the Spurfan, ":cryHe coulda put up more numbers if he wanted to:cry" argument, but in 2007 I think Duncan coulda easily put up a monster finals stat line but they were playing such a shitty team he didn't care enough and let Parker take over knowing that would be enough. That series was more or less an embarrassment to the NBA when players on the Spurs would laugh about missing shots during the fuckin NBA finals because of how much of a joke the other team was.

[djohn2oo8]

I generally hate the Spurfan, ":cryHe coulda put up more numbers if he wanted to:cry" argument, but in 2007 I think Duncan coulda easily put up a monster finals stat line but they were playing such a shitty team he didn't care enough and let Parker take over knowing that would be enough. That series was more or less an embarrassment to the NBA when players on the Spurs would laugh about missing shots during the fuckin NBA finals because of how much of a joke the other team was.
Hope there's never another snoozefest like that one ever again.

[Leetonidas]

I generally hate the Spurfan, ":cryHe coulda put up more numbers if he wanted to:cry" argument, but in 2007 I think Duncan coulda easily put up a monster finals stat line but they were playing such a shitty team he didn't care enough and let Parker take over knowing that would be enough. That series was more or less an embarrassment to the NBA when players on the Spurs would laugh about missing shots during the fuckin NBA finals because of how much of a joke the other team was.
+1

lol 2007 Cavs

[Axe Murderer]

I didn't realize Clyde Drexler wasn't a third-teamer that year :wow











(he was. lol bump)

tbh i assumed you meant first team

[Leetonidas]

Hakeem wasn't even a first teamer that year bro. But naw I meant all-time I think if it wast first team it would be a lot more players.

[SpursDynasty85]

"Sure there are Kobe/dunmcan fans that overarate BOTh players ...

But the spur fans need to slam Bryant to raise Duncan is pretty damn comical, damn nearly "criminal".

Some Kobe fans diminish shaq and Pau's contributions to Kobe's rings ...while duncan devotees overestimate those same players.

Duncan disciples act as though duncan had the Washington Generals as team-mates but upstairs argue that even though Kobe may have some advantages they would have the uber-competitive Manu over Kobe because he is more clutch and "classy" (of course) ...
And that Parker could be a star with an offense built around him ... I have read pretty much the above upstairs, though Manu and Parker have their detractors as well.

again BOTH players are all-timers, most consider Kobe the greater player but there are some folks inside b-ball (especialy those in to advance metrics) that prefer Tim.

Those on either side that act like it's not close ... are full of shit. But that being said ... Since Kobe has clearly been the better player since 2007 and the gap between their productivity has widened ... If it was (as I and many others thought beforethe past 4 seasons when i had Duncan ahead) how can Kobe NOT be the greater player now, when everything is looked at as a whole (career wise).

If someone on here, can make a serious non troll argument on here, I would love to hear it. duncan is still effective and efficent but we all know his last ASG nod or any other honor last year was bull-shit. Sure, Kobe didnt deserve all NBA defense either but his ALL-NBA and ASG start were both well deserved.

Posting duncan's accomplishments are very impressive but the last meaningful of those were earned in 2007 ...things have been declining at a more acclereated rate for duncan than it has for Kobe ever since ...

Since duncan's last ring:

Kobe has 2 rings
2 finals MVp's
3 finals appearances
Led his team to a headtohead playoff win over duncan's Spurs
2 all-star MVP's
He has not been left off 1st team all-NBA ...


Like i said many times ... BOTH are great. It's like picking between Bird and Magic but just like those 2 Bird stopped showing up in the finals in 1987 ... While Magic picked up 1 more ring, and two more finals appearances along with a couple MVP awards ....

Bird was on track to be the greater player but age/injuries derailed Bird just as it seems to have done to duncan. In 2007 duncan wa sthe better player not by a huge amount but clearly so. Now it's Kobe by a notch, and that notch is getting bigger. No disgarace there. Time just hit him sooner than Bryant."
- KobeKilla81


#1, your wrong. @2007, Duncan pretty much defined his career and it was declared the Spurs were a dynasty and that Duncan was the backbone of that Dynasty. The Lakers had their dynasty, but it was honestly attributable to the most dominant player since MJ during those 3 years, SHAQ!

#2,Bird and Magic situation is completely different. Those guys came in to the NBA at the same time and as pretty much equal players. Kobe 1996 - 2000, was mediocre. He was young, skinny and not ready to be a tru all-star. You cannot compare those years, Duncan came into the league arguably a top10/5 player.

#3, from 2001-2007. Duncan & Kobe argument starts to stand some ground. Kobe was turning into an unstoppable offensive & defensive force but not at the dominant level a 7 footer with Duncans fundamentals could achieve. Kobe's ceiling was limited to his style of play. Kobe had no post game during this time, and never distributed the ball, unless it was a flashy pass to make himself look good. Duncan on the other hand one 3 championships, in which he was clearly still the leader of the group, while still allowing his fellow players to improve and be a part of the team. Kobe at the end of 2007, pretty much gave up, whined, and threw his whole team under the bus. Something Duncan never did and nobody could ever really see doing.

#4, Since 2007, Kobe finally started to shine. I was never a Kobe fan until in 2008, when he started to play like a true leader. He really impressed me with his ability facilitate the pace of a game. Before Kobe just did his thing. Now he was trying to facilitate the defense and offensive portion of the game. His talents were on full display when he was able to play not thinking whether to score or pass. He just let the game come to him. (What Duncan had been doing since he entered the league).

From what I see, I see a greater portion of years that Duncan has been the most dominant player, than what Kobe has shown. Kobe 2001 - 2011 vs Duncan's 1997 - 2007. I'll take Duncan's, not by a wide margine, but a clear margin because Kobe's 2007 - 2011 are the only ones that match any of Duncan's pre-2008 years.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Hakeem wasn't even a first teamer that year bro. But naw I meant all-time I think if it wast first team it would be a lot more players.
All 1st/2nd/3rd teams aside, I still think the best feat a player can ever accomplish I think is winning regular season MVP and finals MVP in the same season. Most all time greats have either never done it or only done it 1-2 times, the fact MJ did it 4 times is why he's in a tier of his own, and the fact Duncan did it in 2003 is why I still put him over Kobe.

[Leetonidas]

DoK with the goods

[Killakobe81]

"Sure there are Kobe/dunmcan fans that overarate BOTh players ...

But the spur fans need to slam Bryant to raise Duncan is pretty damn comical, damn nearly "criminal".

Some Kobe fans diminish shaq and Pau's contributions to Kobe's rings ...while duncan devotees overestimate those same players.

Duncan disciples act as though duncan had the Washington Generals as team-mates but upstairs argue that even though Kobe may have some advantages they would have the uber-competitive Manu over Kobe because he is more clutch and "classy" (of course) ...
And that Parker could be a star with an offense built around him ... I have read pretty much the above upstairs, though Manu and Parker have their detractors as well.

again BOTH players are all-timers, most consider Kobe the greater player but there are some folks inside b-ball (especialy those in to advance metrics) that prefer Tim.

Those on either side that act like it's not close ... are full of shit. But that being said ... Since Kobe has clearly been the better player since 2007 and the gap between their productivity has widened ... If it was (as I and many others thought beforethe past 4 seasons when i had Duncan ahead) how can Kobe NOT be the greater player now, when everything is looked at as a whole (career wise).

If someone on here, can make a serious non troll argument on here, I would love to hear it. duncan is still effective and efficent but we all know his last ASG nod or any other honor last year was bull-shit. Sure, Kobe didnt deserve all NBA defense either but his ALL-NBA and ASG start were both well deserved.

Posting duncan's accomplishments are very impressive but the last meaningful of those were earned in 2007 ...things have been declining at a more acclereated rate for duncan than it has for Kobe ever since ...

Since duncan's last ring:

Kobe has 2 rings
2 finals MVp's
3 finals appearances
Led his team to a headtohead playoff win over duncan's Spurs
2 all-star MVP's
He has not been left off 1st team all-NBA ...


Like i said many times ... BOTH are great. It's like picking between Bird and Magic but just like those 2 Bird stopped showing up in the finals in 1987 ... While Magic picked up 1 more ring, and two more finals appearances along with a couple MVP awards ....

Bird was on track to be the greater player but age/injuries derailed Bird just as it seems to have done to duncan. In 2007 duncan wa sthe better player not by a huge amount but clearly so. Now it's Kobe by a notch, and that notch is getting bigger. No disgarace there. Time just hit him sooner than Bryant."
- KobeKilla81


#1, your wrong. @2007, Duncan pretty much defined his career and it was declared the Spurs were a dynasty and that Duncan was the backbone of that Dynasty. The Lakers had their dynasty, but it was honestly attributable to the most dominant player since MJ during those 3 years, SHAQ!

#2,Bird and Magic situation is completely different. Those guys came in to the NBA at the same time and as pretty much equal players. Kobe 1996 - 2000, was mediocre. He was young, skinny and not ready to be a tru all-star. You cannot compare those years, Duncan came into the league arguably a top10/5 player.

#3, from 2001-2007. Duncan & Kobe argument starts to stand some ground. Kobe was turning into an unstoppable offensive & defensive force but not at the dominant level a 7 footer with Duncans fundamentals could achieve. Kobe's ceiling was limited to his style of play. Kobe had no post game during this time, and never distributed the ball, unless it was a flashy pass to make himself look good. Duncan on the other hand one 3 championships, in which he was clearly still the leader of the group, while still allowing his fellow players to improve and be a part of the team. Kobe at the end of 2007, pretty much gave up, whined, and threw his whole team under the bus. Something Duncan never did and nobody could ever really see doing.

#4, Since 2007, Kobe finally started to shine. I was never a Kobe fan until in 2008, when he started to play like a true leader. He really impressed me with his ability facilitate the pace of a game. Before Kobe just did his thing. Now he was trying to facilitate the defense and offensive portion of the game. His talents were on full display when he was able to play not thinking whether to score or pass. He just let the game come to him. (What Duncan had been doing since he entered the league).

From what I see, I see a greater portion of years that Duncan has been the most dominant player, than what Kobe has shown. Kobe 2001 - 2011 vs Duncan's 1997 - 2007. I'll take Duncan's, not by a wide margine, but a clear margin because Kobe's 2007 - 2011 are the only ones that match any of Duncan's pre-2008 years.

How can i take this seriously when you make an asinine statement like that? Kobe never distributed the ball?! Are you serious?! your response loses all credibility with that part alone. Kobe actually had as many or more assists in the seasons where he never passed the ball ...

Look it's easy to say that Kobe learned something magical after 2007 ...but truth is Kobe has always been an asshole, with a big ego who takes at least 2 or 3 bad shots a game. That doesnt make him any less of a great player but he sure makes things harder than it needs to be. But the oversimplification of Kobe and his game means you probably dont watch a lot of ball outside of the Spurs .. and buy into some of the same media crap many here claim ... overrate Kobe and underrates Duncan.

Duncan though diminished further than Bryant, would still win with the right supporting cast ...just as Kobe won when he had his. His leadership skills did not erode and neither did Kobe's flourish ...they just had better team-mates to lead.

And LOL including 2008 the decline had already begun ...

[Killakobe81]

Also LOL Kobe was skinny and not ready to shine but in 2001 ...he tore the Spurs a 2nd asshole ...

[NRHector]

Also LOL Kobe was skinny and not ready to shine but in 2001 ...he tore the Spurs a 2nd asshole ...

Ck9nyiwaTIg

[LkrFan]

Killakobe81 with the pure uncut, undebatable, undeniable goods. Here is the best part:


Since duncan's last ring:

Kobe has 2 rings
2 finals MVp's
3 finals appearances
Led his team to a headtohead playoff win over duncan's Spurs
2 all-star MVP's
He has not been left off 1st team all-NBA ...

Spur fans, get your ass in here and :downspin: this shiiiittt!!! :lol

[SpursDynasty85]

"How can i take this seriously when you make an asinine statement like that? Kobe never distributed the ball?! Are you serious?! your response loses all credibility with that part alone. Kobe actually had as many or more assists in the seasons where he never passed the ball ...

Look it's easy to say that Kobe learned something magical after 2007 ...but truth is Kobe has always been an asshole, with a big ego who takes at least 2 or 3 bad shots a game. That doesnt make him any less of a great player but he sure makes things harder than it needs to be. But the oversimplification of Kobe and his game means you probably dont watch a lot of ball outside of the Spurs .. and buy into some of the same media crap many here claim ... overrate Kobe and underrates Duncan.

Duncan though diminished further than Bryant, would still win with the right supporting cast ...just as Kobe won when he had his. His leadership skills did not erode and neither did Kobe's flourish ...they just had better team-mates to lead.

And LOL including 2008 the decline had already begun ...

Also LOL Kobe was skinny and not ready to shine but in 2001 ...he tore the Spurs a 2nd asshole ..." - KillaKobe81


Wish I knew how to post comments in here.. if you don't mind, can someone please teach me?

To your responses:

Sigh* your not reading the language.

I admit, I watched a lot of Spurs basketball. Hell they play 82 games a year. Do I need to watch more basketball than that? Don't be shallow and read into the last statement too much either, I watch basketball outside of Spurs.

But on the serious point. I admit I'm biased, and may not know about Kobe's performances as well as the next Laker's fan, but my points are valid. I took it to another level with the Kobe never distributed. I never said he never "Passed" the ball, but I consider "distributing" a very defined skill that only a few players in the NBA can consider themselves truly good at. Duncan is one of them. The man set his teammates, ALL of them, and not just one, to be successful on the majority of the plays where he touched the ball. It was so deadly efficient to watch the Duncan lead spurs play, that their efficiency caused everyone outside the Spur's fan base to hate them. Purely because they were too damn good. They did everything right. Played suffocating Defense, Played extremely efficient offense, and blew teams out the water.

You can shout out all the assist numbers you want, but this doesn't mean he was a distributor.

And your arguments about 2008 was in decline for Duncan. I said "pre-2008" years. Which doesn't include 2008. And 1996-2000 is when I stated Kobe was not truly ready to be a great player. I said 2001-2007, he was a great player, but it wasn't until 2008 he truly started to shine as a leader and a distributor.

You can say he had the skills during 2001 - 2007 to lead his team the way he did in 2008 and beyond, but he didn't. Plain and simple. You can blame it on his supporting cast, but if he was truly a team leader, he would not have stepped on Big Shaq Daddy's shoes to get his own way. He would have let Shaq do his thing and accomodate, because that was the best way to win. Duncan let his teammates shine through out his career, and doesn't give his place in history/stats/individual rewards a second thought. This is what made him such a great player from 1997 - 2007. Props to Robinson for showing him the way....

[Axe Murderer]

All 1st/2nd/3rd teams aside, I still think the best feat a player can ever accomplish I think is winning regular season MVP and finals MVP in the same season. Most all time greats have either never done it or only done it 1-2 times, the fact MJ did it 4 times is why he's in a tier of his own, and the fact Duncan did it in 2003 is why I still put him over Kobe.

I think that the 4 titles as the clear cut lead man alone puts Duncan over Kobe.

[Axe Murderer]

Hakeem wasn't even a first teamer that year bro.

:lol Or a second teamer, he was third team. That's pretty crazy, I had no idea until I looked it up:wow