Better Leader: Tim Duncan or David Robinson?

[Magua]

For my money, I don't see how it can't be Timmy. While David tried to lead through religious subjugation, Duncan's play did all the talking for him, and he single-handedly carried a franchise that previously had no backbone to 4 NBA titles.

Thoughts?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I agree but tbh David never had a consistent coach to work with, neither a FO with a clue. He was dealt a bad hand and had to work with assholes like Rodman, journeymen and total scrubs. He never had players as good as Tony and Manu next to him and had to drag the Vinny Del Negros and JR Reids of the world to 50+ win seasons. It wasn't David's ( lack of ) leadership that lead to multiple playoff exits.

Also, don't underestimate David's role in helping Duncan become the player and leader he is.

[alamo50]

Leadership in every meaning of the word = David Robinson.

[bigfan]

I think both guys are in the "lead by example" category. Sometimes I do wish Tim would go a bit "Coach Pop nuclear" on his teammates.

[lefty]

None of them

In 1999, it was Mario Elie

2003, they pussed out too; thanks for Captain Jax :D; no in 2003 I though Willis was the main leader

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

None of them

The true leader in disguise is Tony Parker, right ;)

[lefty]

The true leader in disguise is Tony Parker, right ;)
Speedy Claxton

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Was over the moon when we traded John Salmons for Speedy, envisioned him easily leading us to the title.

[Giuseppe]

Robinson is a followerPERIOD

[cheguevara]

Manu Ginobili

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Creating a thread to bash on religion needs to be done in the Club.

[Magua]

Creating a thread to bash on religion needs to be done in the Club.

Religion is not the subject of this thread. Leave your agenda at the door and get back on topic please.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

While David tried to lead through religious subjugation


Who's on the topic of basketball??


I was going to leave it alone but I hate how dumbasses throw that out there about DRob. If anything his faith made him a better leader.


Don't drop sh!t like that out in your post if you don't want a response to it.

[Magua]

Who's on the topic of basketball??


I was going to leave it alone but I hate how dumbasses throw that out there about DRob. If anything his faith made him a better leader.


Don't drop sh!t like that out in your post if you don't want a response to it.

His faith alienated teammates and cost the Spurs a title in 1995.

[ambchang]

His faith alienated teammates and cost the Spurs a title in 1995.

How so? Do you mind being more specific?

[DesignatedT]

Both lead by example, but Duncan is the more intimidating force in that manner, mainly because the resume he possesses.

[Strange Botwin]

Better leader basketball-wise: Tim Duncan in a runaway.

Better leader starting a religious school: David Robinson. Not even close.

[Bill_Brasky]

Why do people only mention David being religious? Every athlete ever has started off every post-game interview thanking god.

[lefty]

Why do people only mention David being religious? Every athlete ever has started off every post-game interview thanking god.
:lol But they don'T mean it

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

How so? Do you mind being more specific?

Mangua read that Rodman didn't like Robinson's preaching to him when they played together, and ran with it.




Robinson's professing his faith in God didn't alienate teammates. Rodman is just a dumbass who couldn't take responsibility for his own willingness to quit trying when the chips were down. Saying Robinson's preaching influenced him to quit trying, or however he put it, is a copout from a guy with no character.

Pay me millions of dollars a year to play ball, and the team captain can tell me whatever he wants about religion/stock tips/self-help books/the cooking channel/checkers, whatever. Rodman has no balls otherwise he'd of just owned up that he acted like a spoiled child and quit on his team that post season.

Show me examples where Robinson wasn't a good leader. If anything he helped provide Duncan with the some of the tools he'd need to be the ultimate all-around player he's been in his career. Duncan credits Robinson with a lot of great mentoring early in his career. Robinson is largely responsible for the Spurs even being in San Antonio. His teams were incredibly successful in spite of the team having limited depth or talent prior to Duncan's arrival. If Robinson wasn't a leader he'd of been a guy with great stats on bad teams. His teams were consistent winners in the years before Duncan and that shows he had support from his team. All of his success came in spite of questionable coaches, lots of player turnover, and again, a limited supporting cast.

This thread was created to bash Robinson for his faith, plain and simple. Manuregua opens a thread with a religious chip on his shoulder, but has no real basis for any sort of real argument regarding Robinson's leadership skills. Just a chance for him to bash from a passive-aggressive viewpoint. I saw it, and sadly let myself get sucked into it anyway.

As I said, he should have just posted another anti-religious Club thread because that's all he's got. This thread was just a poorly veiled stab at religion. Weak.

[rascal]

Robinson was responsible for saving the franchise in San Antonio. No Robinson no Spurs.

[ambchang]

The part I don't get is the teammates part, who was the other? Does Rodman count as two person now that he is borderline schizo?

And why would the sharing of faith be anything that would alienate a teammate? Out of dozens of teammates Robinson had, Rodman was pretty much the only person who acted up.

Jordan completely destroyed players like Dennis Hopson and Kwame Brown, is he a bad leader?

Kobe and Shaq divided the entire Lakers locker room, were they bad leaders?

Magic was blamed for getting his coach fired, was he a bad leader?

Bird was known to be a gigantic jerk, and even he admitted to McHale not giving his all during his career, was Bird a bad leader?

Isiah Thomas had a very public feud with Adrian Dantley that eventually got him shipped out, was he bad leader?

Why is spreading of faith not acceptable, and yet spreading of anti-faith acceptable? Is that not hypocritical?

[ivanfromwestwood]

i don't know about leader but on the court i think Robinson was a better all around player. rookie David Robinson would have killed rookie Tim Duncan. also lets not forget it was Robinson who played against "real" bigs in the 90's. did Duncan ever have a scoring title, quadruple double, 71 in a game? Drob>>>>>>Timmy D on every level.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

How so?
He chased his teammates around with a bible, that's how.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Mangua read that Rodman didn't like Robinson's preaching to him when they played together, and ran with it.




Robinson's professing his faith in God didn't alienate teammates. Rodman is just a dumbass who couldn't take responsibility for his own willingness to quit trying when the chips were down. Saying Robinson's preaching influenced him to quit trying, or however he put it, is a copout from a guy with no character.

Pay me millions of dollars a year to play ball, and the team captain can tell me whatever he wants about religion/stock tips/self-help books/the cooking channel/checkers, whatever. Rodman has no balls otherwise he'd of just owned up that he acted like a spoiled child and quit on his team that post season.

Show me examples where Robinson wasn't a good leader. If anything he helped provide Duncan with the some of the tools he'd need to be the ultimate all-around player he's been in his career. Duncan credits Robinson with a lot of great mentoring early in his career. Robinson is largely responsible for the Spurs even being in San Antonio. His teams were incredibly successful in spite of the team having limited depth or talent prior to Duncan's arrival. If Robinson wasn't a leader he'd of been a guy with great stats on bad teams. His teams were consistent winners in the years before Duncan and that shows he had support from his team. All of his success came in spite of questionable coaches, lots of player turnover, and again, a limited supporting cast.

This thread was created to bash Robinson for his faith, plain and simple. Manuregua opens a thread with a religious chip on his shoulder, but has no real basis for any sort of real argument regarding Robinson's leadership skills. Just a chance for him to bash from a passive-aggressive viewpoint. I saw it, and sadly let myself get sucked into it anyway.

As I said, he should have just posted another anti-religious Club thread because that's all he's got. This thread was just a poorly veiled stab at religion. Weak.
great essay bro

[ambchang]

He chased his teammates around with a bible, that's how.

And yet one flipped ... hmmm ... I guess that is pretty strong evidence it was that one single teammate rather than the issue with Robinson.

[Dex]

Robinson was responsible for saving the franchise in San Antonio. No Robinson no Spurs.

The same could be said for Gervin and, arguably, Duncan.

If Spurs don't win in '99, do they get a new arena? Do they stay in San Antonio? Who knows.

[joshdaboss]

i don't know about leader but on the court i think Robinson was a better all around player. rookie David Robinson would have killed rookie Tim Duncan. also lets not forget it was Robinson who played against "real" bigs in the 90's. did Duncan ever have a scoring title, quadruple double, 71 in a game? Drob>>>>>>Timmy D on every level.

ahahahahahaha Without Duncan, that asshole is ringless. He should be kissing Duncan's feet and giving thanks to Tim Duncan constantly, instead of God. Unless he believes they are the same person, of course.

[Calispursfan11]

LOL @ Magua from Last of the Mohicans. Awesome! LOL also at "religious subjugation" . Priceless!

[Calispursfan11]

I think Magua has troll potential.

[Magua]

Mangua read that Rodman didn't like Robinson's preaching to him when they played together, and ran with it.




Robinson's professing his faith in God didn't alienate teammates. Rodman is just a dumbass who couldn't take responsibility for his own willingness to quit trying when the chips were down. Saying Robinson's preaching influenced him to quit trying, or however he put it, is a copout from a guy with no character.

Pay me millions of dollars a year to play ball, and the team captain can tell me whatever he wants about religion/stock tips/self-help books/the cooking channel/checkers, whatever. Rodman has no balls otherwise he'd of just owned up that he acted like a spoiled child and quit on his team that post season.

Show me examples where Robinson wasn't a good leader. If anything he helped provide Duncan with the some of the tools he'd need to be the ultimate all-around player he's been in his career. Duncan credits Robinson with a lot of great mentoring early in his career. Robinson is largely responsible for the Spurs even being in San Antonio. His teams were incredibly successful in spite of the team having limited depth or talent prior to Duncan's arrival. If Robinson wasn't a leader he'd of been a guy with great stats on bad teams. His teams were consistent winners in the years before Duncan and that shows he had support from his team. All of his success came in spite of questionable coaches, lots of player turnover, and again, a limited supporting cast.

This thread was created to bash Robinson for his faith, plain and simple. Manuregua opens a thread with a religious chip on his shoulder, but has no real basis for any sort of real argument regarding Robinson's leadership skills. Just a chance for him to bash from a passive-aggressive viewpoint. I saw it, and sadly let myself get sucked into it anyway.

As I said, he should have just posted another anti-religious Club thread because that's all he's got. This thread was just a poorly veiled stab at religion. Weak.

Duncan taught Robinson how to win. The only thing Dave ever taught Tim was that Edge pro-gel gives you a close, comfortable shave.

[Sean Cagney]

Tim Duncan no question.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Tim Duncan no question.

^
This.

He's a quiet leader, but his play spoke volumes. TD is probably the best PF ever too...Robinson is not in the same area code as some of the best C's.

[lefty]

But in 1999, the real leader was Mario Elie

Robby has always been a pussy, and while Duncan was already our go to guy, he wasn't the presence Elie was

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Duncan taught Robinson how to win. The only thing Dave ever taught Tim was that Edge pro-gel gives you a close, comfortable shave.


Robinson always played on crap teams before teaming up with TD...I forgot.



Perhaps Robinson taught Duncan how to win, and TD just continued the legacy.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

But in 1999, the real leader was Mario Elie

Robby has always been a pussy, and while Duncan was already our go to guy, he wasn't the presence Elie was

Elie = Robert Horry.


Maybe Horry was our team leader...or Manu...or SJax...or Willis as someone suggested.

Perhaps neither Tim or David deserve credit for leading the Spurs to any of those championships. Perhaps they just benefitted from being surrounded by talent superior to the rest of the league, and veteran leaders who could get them over the hump.

I'm seeing all of this differently now. :tu

[lefty]

Elie = Robert Horry.


Maybe Horry was our team leader...or Manu...or SJax...or Willis as someone suggested.

Perhaps neither Tim or David deserve credit for leading the Spurs to any of those championships. Perhaps they just benefitted from being surrounded by talent superior to the rest of the league, and veteran leaders who could get them over the hump.

I'm seeing all of this differently now. :tu
Exactly

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

And yet one flipped ... hmmm ... I guess that is pretty strong evidence it was that one single teammate rather than the issue with Robinson.
Rodman's tenure with the Bulls is pretty strong evidence he wasn't the problem

[anonoftheinternets]

Rodman's tenure with the Bulls is pretty strong evidence he wasn't the problem

or that he learnt his lesson?

btw, this happned to be a :) convenient thread ... agenda anyone?

[Magua]

or that he learnt his lesson?

btw, this happned to be a :) convenient thread ... agenda anyone?

What lesson would that be? He was a winner before and after his Spurs days, and chances are he would've been a winner there too if not for Robinson's god-mongering

[anonoftheinternets]

What lesson would that be? He was a winner before and after his Spurs days, and chances are he would've been a winner there too if not for Robinson's god-mongering

maybe ... or he was normal (detroit days - was pretty sane and only cared abt bball) .. san antonio .. started to go a bit crazy... and then under threat of phil and the bulls ... reined himself in ... since if he failed in SA and then failed in CHI, back to back, he would mostly be on his way out of the nba.

Of course this is all just conjecture just like your opinion ...

[Leetonidas]

Rodman's tenure with the Bulls is pretty strong evidence he wasn't the problem

Gotta admit though it's pretty bitchmade to sabotage your own team rather than manning up and knocking D-Rob out or something. I'd respect that more imo tbh

[DMC]

A great leader knows how to develop his replacement by supporting him from the shadows. David allowed Tim to take the lead on both ends of the floor, and in doing so made Tim an MVP caliber player right out of college.

Some here have no idea about leadership as they've always been followers. Most won't understand leadership until they are well into their 30's.

[Magua]

A great leader knows how to develop his replacement by supporting him from the shadows. David allowed Tim to take the lead on both ends of the floor, and in doing so made Tim an MVP caliber player right out of college.

Some here have no idea about leadership as they've always been followers. Most won't understand leadership until they are well into their 30's.

^
:lol Coming from someone who follows Koolaid man into every thread he makes.

[Solid D]

This intent of this thread seems to have very little to do with interest in Timmy and Big Dave's leadership abilities.

[DMC]

^
:lol coming from someone who follows koolaid man into every thread he makes.
1/10

[ivanfromwestwood]

ahahahahahaha Without Duncan, that asshole is ringless. He should be kissing Duncan's feet and giving thanks to Tim Duncan constantly, instead of God. Unless he believes they are the same person, of course.
who said anything about who got who a ring? all i say is bring Duncans 150 lb rookie ass against Robinson monster rookie body and DRob would have killed Timmy in every part of the game. Timmys footwork would have been shit against DR defense. DRob could have won a dunk contest.. i still love Timmy but DR would have pulled a Neal on him.

[johnnySpurs]

I wonder how many people actually watched David play vs. how many just spout hearsay.

There's no point in comparing the two. Spurs fans are spoiled to have transitioned from one legendary, dominating, HOF big to another... especially via draft. It may be a while before we see a team as winning as we've seen in the DR or TD eras.

[Venti Quattro]

http://i.imgur.com/ujyvo.gif

[ambchang]

Another proof that basketball, like tennis, 100m dash, archery and such, is an individual sport.

[ambchang]

Let's list their teammates of each HoF centre during their prime:

Bill Russell - Cousy, Sam Jones, wait, the guy has 8 HoF on his team during his prime
Wilt - Jerry West, Billy Cunningham, Hal Greer, Luke Jackson, Chet Walker, Elgin Baylor (well, sort of ...), Gail Goodrich
Bill Walton - Maurice Lucas, Lionel Hollins
Kareem Abdul Jabbar - Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, James Worthy, Byron Scott, Bob Dandridge
Hakeem Olajuwon - Clyde Drexler, Ralph Sampson, Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell, Otis Thorpe
Shaquille O'Neal - Penny Hardaway, Horace Grant, Kobe Bryant, Robert Horry
Tim Duncan - Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, David Robinson, Bruce Bowen
David Robinson - Sean Elliott, Avery Johnson, Dennis Rodman, Terry Cummings, Rod Strickland

I mean, tough to say, they all have similar supporting casts. I mean, who wouldn't trade Sean Elliott for Kobe Bryant or Penny Hardaway? Dennis Rodman is obviously as good as Magic and Drexler. Terry Cummings is pretty much the same guy as Maurice Lucas, and Rod Strickland is a great teammate, like Jerry West or Gail Goodrich.

[Solid D]

I think they are both good leaders but in different ways. There is no doubt that the primary "leader" for the Spurs since the late '90s has been Gregg Popovich. He is an incredible leader of men. But getting back to David and Tim, David has been a leader in the community as well as on the basketball floor. I don't think he communicated as well on the floor as well as Timmy has grown to do. They have both been team Captains. With players like Avery "the Little General" on the floor, David's role wasn't to be the sole leader on the team. He also had Mario for a couple of years there. The same goes for Timmy...he hasn't always been the primary leader of the Spurs on the floor. There is no doubt, however that both have exhibited exemplary leadership with their fellow teammates. "On his own" (Popovich quote), David cut his vacation in Hawaii short to fly in to convince Tim to stay in SA back in July of 2000. That's a team leader. Duncan would do the same. They are both imperfect but good leaders. David has had some issues with some players, but then again, Timmy sometimes just flat ignores some of his fellow mates. Both Dave and Timmy have been very demanding of their teammates, just like Pop has been over the years. That's what good leaders do.

The real leader has been Pop, but in terms of serving as a great example for their teammates and fans, Timmy and The Admiral have both shined and have been franchise-savers. I don't see one being better than the other.

[jag]

Mangua read that Rodman didn't like Robinson's preaching to him when they played together, and ran with it.




Robinson's professing his faith in God didn't alienate teammates. Rodman is just a dumbass who couldn't take responsibility for his own willingness to quit trying when the chips were down. Saying Robinson's preaching influenced him to quit trying, or however he put it, is a copout from a guy with no character.

Pay me millions of dollars a year to play ball, and the team captain can tell me whatever he wants about religion/stock tips/self-help books/the cooking channel/checkers, whatever. Rodman has no balls otherwise he'd of just owned up that he acted like a spoiled child and quit on his team that post season.

Show me examples where Robinson wasn't a good leader. If anything he helped provide Duncan with the some of the tools he'd need to be the ultimate all-around player he's been in his career. Duncan credits Robinson with a lot of great mentoring early in his career. Robinson is largely responsible for the Spurs even being in San Antonio. His teams were incredibly successful in spite of the team having limited depth or talent prior to Duncan's arrival. If Robinson wasn't a leader he'd of been a guy with great stats on bad teams. His teams were consistent winners in the years before Duncan and that shows he had support from his team. All of his success came in spite of questionable coaches, lots of player turnover, and again, a limited supporting cast.

This thread was created to bash Robinson for his faith, plain and simple. Manuregua opens a thread with a religious chip on his shoulder, but has no real basis for any sort of real argument regarding Robinson's leadership skills. Just a chance for him to bash from a passive-aggressive viewpoint. I saw it, and sadly let myself get sucked into it anyway.

As I said, he should have just posted another anti-religious Club thread because that's all he's got. This thread was just a poorly veiled stab at religion. Weak.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110705203444/glee/images/3/38/Orson-welles-clapping.gif

[jag]

I think they are both good leaders but in different ways. There is no doubt that the primary "leader" for the Spurs since the late '90s has been Gregg Popovich. He is an incredible leader of men. But getting back to David and Tim, David has been a leader in the community as well as on the basketball floor. I don't think he communicated as well on the floor as well as Timmy has grown to do. They have both been team Captains. With players like Avery "the Little General" on the floor, David's role wasn't to be the sole leader on the team. He also had Mario for a couple of years there. The same goes for Timmy...he hasn't always been the primary leader of the Spurs on the floor. There is no doubt, however that both have exhibited exemplary leadership with their fellow teammates. "On his own" (Popovich quote), David cut his vacation in Hawaii short to fly in to convince Tim to stay in SA back in July of 2000. That's a team leader. Duncan would do the same. They are both imperfect but good leaders. David has had some issues with some players, but then again, Timmy sometimes just flat ignores some of his fellow mates. Both Dave and Timmy have been very demanding of their teammates, just like Pop has been over the years. That's what good leaders do.

The real leader has been Pop, but in terms of serving as a great example for their teammates and fans, Timmy and The Admiral have both shined and have been franchise-savers. I don't see one being better than the other.


Solid D. taking time out of his day to drop knowledge on everyone.

[Magua]

blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah

Good argument, duly noted.

[pjjrfan]

On the court Tim Duncan.
Off the court David Robinson. It's not a question of backbone for David, he just wasn't a basketball junky, gym rat whatever you want to call it but I would never define David's courage by his performances on a basketball court. There is a reason he is so highly regarded in and out of Basketball.

[xellos88330]

For my money, I don't see how it can't be Timmy. While David tried to lead through religious subjugation, Duncan's play did all the talking for him, and he single-handedly carried a franchise that previously had no backbone to 4 NBA titles.

Thoughts?

You are stupid.

[joshdaboss]

who said anything about who got who a ring? all i say is bring Duncans 150 lb rookie ass against Robinson monster rookie body and DRob would have killed Timmy in every part of the game. Timmys footwork would have been shit against DR defense. DRob could have won a dunk contest.. i still love Timmy but DR would have pulled a Neal on him.

The point is Robinson is shit compared to Duncan.

[Magua]

You are stupid.

Nice profile pic. Seriously.

[xellos88330]

Nice profile pic. Seriously.

I know it is. ;)

[le13]

Talking seriously,

David was the Team Leader in the mentality point of vue. Tim was and is the Franchise Player and best player and an example for all his teammates. He was and he is quite shy or reserved and this is a kind of "lack" to be a real team leader.

You can compare this duo with Rose-Noah. Noah is the team and spirit leader for the BULLS, Rose is the Franchise Player.

And as for today, Spurs do not have anymore a unique leader (As Robinson was).. The leadership is split between TD, TP and Manu..

[Magua]

Talking seriously,

David was the Team Leader in the mentality point of vue. Tim was and is the Franchise Player and best player and an example for all his teammates. He was and he is quite shy or reserved and this is a kind of "lack" to be a real team leader.

You can compare this duo with Rose-Noah. Noah is the team and spirit leader for the BULLS, Rose is the Franchise Player.

And as for today, Spurs do not have anymore a unique leader (As Robinson was).. The leadership is split between TD, TP and Manu..

I prefer team leaders who let their play do the talking. Tim did that in spades. David fell short in that department.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I prefer team leaders who let their play do the talking. Tim did that in spades. David fell short in that department.

lol

[Cane]

Whatever happened to John Basedow?

[Giuseppe]

I prefer team leaders who let their play do the talking. Tim did that in spades. David fell short in that department.

David was a girl born in a guy's body. It happens....Swords, a modern day example.

[kskonn]

I think they are both good leaders but in different ways. There is no doubt that the primary "leader" for the Spurs since the late '90s has been Gregg Popovich. He is an incredible leader of men. But getting back to David and Tim, David has been a leader in the community as well as on the basketball floor. I don't think he communicated as well on the floor as well as Timmy has grown to do. They have both been team Captains. With players like Avery "the Little General" on the floor, David's role wasn't to be the sole leader on the team. He also had Mario for a couple of years there. The same goes for Timmy...he hasn't always been the primary leader of the Spurs on the floor. There is no doubt, however that both have exhibited exemplary leadership with their fellow teammates. "On his own" (Popovich quote), David cut his vacation in Hawaii short to fly in to convince Tim to stay in SA back in July of 2000. That's a team leader. Duncan would do the same. They are both imperfect but good leaders. David has had some issues with some players, but then again, Timmy sometimes just flat ignores some of his fellow mates. Both Dave and Timmy have been very demanding of their teammates, just like Pop has been over the years. That's what good leaders do.

The real leader has been Pop, but in terms of serving as a great example for their teammates and fans, Timmy and The Admiral have both shined and have been franchise-savers. I don't see one being better than the other.

And this is why the orginizational machine has worked so well. So many teams suffer through star players running the franchise, when the coach can coach things work better.

[Strange Botwin]

Avery Johnson made David Robinson his bitch over the course of 10 years.

Avery tried that shit on Tim, and he was handed a one way ticket to Denver on a silver platter.

Nobody bosses MERLIN!

[ducks]

it took 2 years for duncan to trust tp
is that a real leader?

[Cane]

Whatever happened to John Basedow?

[ambchang]

My trolling backfired and now I look like a complete idiot

We already know that, don't be too hard on yourself.

[Magua]

I think we all can agree that Tim Duncan wins this comparison going away.

[wunderkindepiphany]

No one is better than the other; they're just different. Both were fantastic leaders for the Spurs in their time.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

For my money, I don't see how it can't be Timmy. While David tried to lead through religious subjugation, Duncan's play did all the talking for him, and he single-handedly carried a franchise that previously had no backbone to 4 NBA titles.

Thoughts?

We lost in 1995 because Rodman hyjacked the team, and Houston could double David because David had little support, while David had to single-cover Hakeem because of Kenny, Mad Max Mario Elie, Robert Horry and Sam Cassell. Remember those guys? It had FA to do with religion, and I'm an athiest (well, worshipper of the great Carbon Cycle, actually... :lol )


Leadership in every meaning of the word = David Robinson.

SPOT.

ON.


Was over the moon when we traded John Salmons for Speedy, envisioned him easily leading us to the title.

He did in a way. He was crucial in the latter part of the 2003 season and filled valuable minutes with gold when TP struggled. ;)


Creating a thread to bash on religion needs to be done in the Club.

:lmao


His faith alienated teammates and cost the Spurs a title in 1995.

:nope


Mangua read that Rodman didn't like Robinson's preaching to him when they played together, and ran with it.

Robinson's professing his faith in God didn't alienate teammates. Rodman is just a dumbass who couldn't take responsibility for his own willingness to quit trying when the chips were down. Saying Robinson's preaching influenced him to quit trying, or however he put it, is a copout from a guy with no character.

Show me examples where Robinson wasn't a good leader. If anything he helped provide Duncan with the some of the tools he'd need to be the ultimate all-around player he's been in his career. Duncan credits Robinson with a lot of great mentoring early in his career. Robinson is largely responsible for the Spurs even being in San Antonio. His teams were incredibly successful in spite of the team having limited depth or talent prior to Duncan's arrival. If Robinson wasn't a leader he'd of been a guy with great stats on bad teams. His teams were consistent winners in the years before Duncan and that shows he had support from his team. All of his success came in spite of questionable coaches, lots of player turnover, and again, a limited supporting cast.

This thread was created to bash Robinson for his faith, plain and simple. Manuregua opens a thread with a religious chip on his shoulder, but has no real basis for any sort of real argument regarding Robinson's leadership skills. Just a chance for him to bash from a passive-aggressive viewpoint. I saw it, and sadly let myself get sucked into it anyway.

As I said, he should have just posted another anti-religious Club thread because that's all he's got. This thread was just a poorly veiled stab at religion. Weak.

Yup.


Robinson was responsible for saving the franchise in San Antonio. No Robinson no Spurs.

Yup.


He chased his teammates around with a bible, that's how.

You sure that wasn't the Lil' General? Just reacquaint yourself with the dross we had on the roster that year and went 62-20 with, and could have won it all if Hakeem didn't play at his absolute finest and those Houston shooters ever cooled off:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/1995.html

And thyen remind yourself of the quality Houston had:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/1995.html

Swap the supporting casts and we win it all that year. :depressed

[Magua]

Blaming '95 on Rodman is laughable. He was fighting both the Rockets and religious persecution.

[Calispursfan11]

Blaming '95 on Rodman is laughable. He was fighting both the Rockets and religious persecution.

He was being persecuted or subjugated by D-Rob's bible? Usually persecution applies to being part of a persecuted religion. Rodman was not religious enough for D-Rob to persecute as I recall. So I think you mean subjugation like you said originally.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Blaming '95 on Rodman is laughable. He was fighting both the Rockets and religious persecution.

No, he wasn't fighting the Rockets at all. Not that this matters for your awful trolling, but just in case.

[ambchang]

Didn't realize spoken to is a form of persecution. I guess Magua is persecuting all of us with his/her below average trolling.

[Admiral]

Wow, there sure are a lot more douchebag Spurs fans since I was here last. Pathetic!

On the bright side, I am thrilled to see posts from two Spurs Talk legends - Ed Helicopter Jones and Solid D! Two of my absolute favorite posters of all time!

[DieHardSpursFan1537]

Duncan

[Solid D]

Sup, Admiral? Glad to see you bumpin' around in here stirring up the dust!

Another difference in Timmy and David and their leadership styles, remember the lockout in 1998-1999? David Robinson was out front, helping to serve as a voice for the players. That hasn't been Timmy's style of leadership.

http://l.yimg.com/iu/api/res/1.2/8QJqzBdvrvP6JUNk1WMXrw--/YXBwaWQ9eXZpZGVvO2NyPTA7ZHg9MDtkeT0wO2ZpPXVsY3JvcA--/http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2011/03/ipt/1300729383.jpg