Wealthy Americans Turning To Europe For Medical Treatment

[ElNono]

"Fox Sports' Jay Glazer reports that prior to undergoing recent neck surgery, Indianapolis Colts quarterback Peyton Manning flew to Europe for stem-cell therapy (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/32060270) that's used overseas but not yet in the United States. Earlier this year, Fortune reported that prior to his liver transplant, Apple CEO Steve Jobs took an unpublicized flight to Switzerland to undergo an unusual radiological treatment (http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/01/18/steve-jobs-went-to-switzerland-in-search-of-cancer-treatment/) which was not available in the U.S. Some Americans are willing to go abroad to seek what they can't find at home in hopes of improving — or saving — their lives, and health providers are eager to respond. 'It moves fast, this industry,' said the director of Medical Tours International (http://www.spinalcordinjuryzone.com/news/2300/more-americans-seek-treatment-overseas) in 2007. 'They think, 'Look at all these sick, rich patients.''"

[101A]

"Fox Sports' Jay Glazer reports that prior to undergoing recent neck surgery, Indianapolis Colts quarterback Peyton Manning flew to Europe for stem-cell therapy (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/32060270) that's used overseas but not yet in the United States. Earlier this year, Fortune reported that prior to his liver transplant, Apple CEO Steve Jobs took an unpublicized flight to Switzerland to undergo an unusual radiological treatment (http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/01/18/steve-jobs-went-to-switzerland-in-search-of-cancer-treatment/) which was not available in the U.S. Some Americans are willing to go abroad to seek what they can't find at home in hopes of improving — or saving — their lives, and health providers are eager to respond. 'It moves fast, this industry,' said the director of Medical Tours International (http://www.spinalcordinjuryzone.com/news/2300/more-americans-seek-treatment-overseas) in 2007. 'They think, 'Look at all these sick, rich patients.''"


Desperate people do desperate things. The more money you have, the more you can entertain the desperation (and people can take advantage of it). If either of the treatments actually helped the respective conditions, than his is, indeed, news. Otherwise, it is not.

[MannyIsGod]

Desperate people do desperate things. The more money you have, the more you can entertain the desperation (and people can take advantage of it). If either of the treatments actually helped the respective conditions, than his is, indeed, news. Otherwise, it is not.

I know that athletes are doing this more frequently and it is indeed having results. I wouldn't come even close to classifying Peyton Manning as desperate. More like able.

[boutons_deux]

"If either of the treatments actually helped the respective conditions, than his is, indeed, news. Otherwise, it is not."

do you apply the same criteria to, eg, FDA-approved "cancer business" treatments?

[ElNono]

Desperate people do desperate things. The more money you have, the more you can entertain the desperation (and people can take advantage of it). If either of the treatments actually helped the respective conditions, than his is, indeed, news. Otherwise, it is not.

I was under the impression that stem-cell is a proven treatment that's saving lives, with still plenty of room to grow.

Examples:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Health/successful-stem-cell-trachea-transplant/story?id=11308383

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8576493.stm

The US should be leading the pack here, but alas, it seems that you have to head to Europe for that kind of treatment.

[boutons_deux]

US "Christian" Taleban assholes are retarding/blocking stem cell research, pandered to by enabling Repugs.

Why don't they GAF about fertilized embryos, aka "humans", discarded by fertility clinics?

[ElNono]

Actually, I don't even think it has to do with embryonic cells, which are also banned in Germany, a country that's a leader in stem cell research and therapy.

The problem seem to be with this:

Still, it’s possible that even though RSI is doing what many other doctors routinely do (develop a new therapy for use in their own practice) that the federal government could try to bring them to court. The FDA seems to have taken the stance that all stem cells (whether used autologously or not) are drugs. As such, they would need FDA approval, and would likely only be developed by large pharmaceutical companies.

From here (http://singularityhub.com/2010/03/09/colorado-doctors-skirt-fda-jurisdiction-to-provide-human-stem-cell-therapies-video/)

[George Gervin's Afro]

Desperate people do desperate things. The more money you have, the more you can entertain the desperation (and people can take advantage of it). If either of the treatments actually helped the respective conditions, than his is, indeed, news. Otherwise, it is not.

If this would have been the other way around we would have had the darrins , wc, jacksommerset's of the world proclaiming that this is more proof that socialized medicine/ Obamacare doesn't work..blah,blah,blah


When you have the money you can go wherever you want too for treatment...

[ElNono]

This might be another reason:

Athersys Secures Stem Cell Patents and Stock Swells (http://singularityhub.com/2010/02/12/athersys-secures-stem-cell-patents-and-stock-swells/)

Although it looks like their EU patents are not stopping progress there.

[Vici]

Desperate people do desperate things. The more money you have, the more you can entertain the desperation (and people can take advantage of it). If either of the treatments actually helped the respective conditions, than his is, indeed, news. Otherwise, it is not.

The only thing desperate about Peyton Manning is your claim that he is desperate.

[ElNono]

More info on the FDA's position and why people fly overseas for stem cell therapy:

http://www.marymeetsdolly.com/blog/index.php?/archives/839-Why-are-Americans-going-abroad-for-adult-stem-cell-treatments.html

[boutons_deux]

Capitalists/investors as patent trolls buy up IP from universities, research groups, with the intention extorting $Bs from sick people.

iow, scumbag ethics of profit-driven "death panels" and "just how the free market finds the best solution" (to enrich the capitalists, no matter what costs others incur).

[DarrinS]

Rich people going to other countries to get treatment that is controversial, experimental, or illegal in the US?

Shocking

[ElNono]

I think it's pretty shocking... kinda like middle-class american families buying their meds from Canada whenever possible.

[DarrinS]

I think it's pretty shocking... kinda like middle-class american families buying their meds from Canada whenever possible.


Lots of regs here, that's true.

[jacobdrj]

Am I supposed to be shocked by this or something? American medicine has always leaned towards the conservative... We had the know-how and knowledge to do skin grafts from the Nazi's after WW2, but we wouldn't use it until the Korean War because of ethical concerns with how the medical knowledge was acquired (Experiments on unwilling living humans).

There are some Euro countries with much more lax ethical standards (not necessarily Nazi level, but you and I would think twice about it), not to mention different medical liability laws that allow for small sovereign states to progress with medical technology and techniques much more quickly than in the US.

Those super rich Americans can afford to take risks and are gambling that just because something is less tested, new and has magically awesome results, that it won't have other side effects that may have been addressed with proper rigorous the FDA approval process...

[boutons_deux]

"American medicine has always leaned towards the conservative"

bullshit, in the last few decades, the leaning has been above all raking in the dough, doctors, organizations, device mfrs, and above all BigPharma.

FDA's primary role is not to protect Human-Americans but to be police goons for protecting and increasing the profits of the medical establishment, which has compromised FDA fatally.

FDA approval is "tested"? BigPharma and device mfrs have paid $10Bs over the past couple decades to "settle" lawsuits for deaths and maiming.

[Agloco]

Earlier this year, Fortune reported that prior to his liver transplant, Apple CEO Steve Jobs took an unpublicized flight to Switzerland to undergo an unusual radiological treatment (http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/01/18/steve-jobs-went-to-switzerland-in-search-of-cancer-treatment/) which was not available in the U.S.

It's a treatment for metastatic disease usually although it can be used to acheive local control in primary cases where the tumor tends to be resistant to EBRT. ONe can think of it as a targeted systemic radiotherapy modality, although that description can be a bit misleading.

Here is a link to an abstract for one of many American studies:

http://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016(09)00018-2/abstract

In the case of pancreatic neuroendocrine cancer (which Jobs had resected in 2004), short range beta emitters (usually Y-90 or Lu-177) are attached to a hormone (octreotide) which deliveres its payload at the receptor sites. Being quite familiar with the treatment I can tell you if this is a recurrence, that is what he recieved in Basel. Unfortunately, recurrences are not rare in PNT.


Desperate people do desperate things. The more money you have, the more you can entertain the desperation (and people can take advantage of it). If either of the treatments actually helped the respective conditions, than his is, indeed, news. Otherwise, it is not.

The 5-year survival rates for recurrent/metastatic neuroendocrine cancers have more than doubled since 2004, so yes this is indeed news and not desperation as you put it. We can say the same for stem cell treatments in certain instances as well. I won't claim to know exactly what Manning had done or what the exact nature of his injury was, but his trip was quite likely not borne of desperation.

If anyone is interested in more information, technical or not, related to these radiologic or stem cell treatments I'd be happy to oblige.

[Agloco]

"American medicine has always leaned towards the conservative"

bullshit, in the last few decades, the leaning has been above all raking in the dough, doctors, organizations, device mfrs, and above all BigPharma.

FDA's primary role is not to protect Human-Americans but to be police goons for protecting and increasing the profits of the medical establishment, which has compromised FDA fatally.

FDA approval is "tested"? BigPharma and device mfrs have paid $10Bs over the past couple decades to "settle" lawsuits for deaths and maiming.

lol B actually has a morsel of good insight here. There's definitely a conflict of interest where the FDA is concerned.

[101A]

It's a treatment for metastatic disease usually although it can be used to acheive local control in primary cases where the tumor tends to be resistant to EBRT. ONe can think of it as a targeted systemic radiotherapy modality, although that description can be a bit misleading.

Here is a link to an abstract for one of many American studies:

http://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016(09)00018-2/abstract (http://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016%2809%2900018-2/abstract)

In the case of pancreatic neuroendocrine cancer (which Jobs had resected in 2004), short range beta emitters (usually Y-90 or Lu-177) are attached to a hormone (octreotide) which deliveres its payload at the receptor sites. Being quite familiar with the treatment I can tell you if this is a recurrence, that is what he recieved in Basel. Unfortunately, recurrences are not rare in PNT.



The 5-year survival rates for recurrent/metastatic neuroendocrine cancers have more than doubled since 2004, so yes this is indeed news and not desperation as you put it. We can say the same for stem cell treatments in certain instances as well. I won't claim to know exactly what Manning had done or what the exact nature of his injury was, but his trip was quite likely not borne of desperation.

If anyone is interested in more information, technical or not, related to these radiologic or stem cell treatments I'd be happy to oblige.

I actually would...my dad died after a (very short) battle with pancreatic cancer in 2004.

[CavsSuperFan]

If any of these medical procedures were necessary or beneficial they would be covered under the Obama plan….

[jacobdrj]

I didn't mean to imply that the FDA was God's gift to consumers... But the regulation is there...

It is said that were aspirin up for FDA approval today, it would be rejected, for the same reason Celebrex was pulled off shelves a few years ago... Unchecked, it is some pretty powerful stuff...

[boutons_deux]

"If any of these medical procedures were necessary or beneficial they would be covered under the Obama plan…."

Obamacare doesn't decide what gets covered.

The insurance companies and Medicare/Medicaid do, and they only pay for FDA-approved stuff.

[Agloco]

If any of these medical procedures were necessary or beneficial they would be covered under the Obama plan….

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/not%20sure%20if%20serious/grand/arnold_not_sure_if_serious_gif.gif

[Agloco]

I actually would...my dad died after a (very short) battle with pancreatic cancer in 2004.

Very sorry to hear. Do you know what kind of pancreatic cancer it was? There are different treatments depending on the aggressiveness and subtype of disease. Please PM me if you'd care to discuss in private.

[ElNono]

Sorry to hear that 101.

PNT is not the same as the more well-known pancreatic cancer that killed guys like patrick swayze, etc.

The radiotherapy that Jobs underwent is being offered in Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands, India, etc. The FDA actually conducted the first clinical trial here in the US last year, IIRC. It might still be some ways until it's available in the US.

[boutons_deux]

"It might still be some ways until it's available in the US."

often MANY years, (esp if it's going to disrupt somebody's profit stream).

[Yonivore]

I thought socialist health care systems were supposed to equalize the playing field? Why are all these wealthy Americans able to waltz into Europe's single-payer system and get preferential treatment while European citizens continue to complain about the waits and the denials of service?

And, hey! Aren't we being told Obamacare will result in an equalization of care?

Yeah.

[DMC]

They have to wait until Martha Stewart buys a shit load of the stock before they can approve it.

[ElNono]

I thought socialist health care systems were supposed to equalize the playing field? Why are all these wealthy Americans able to waltz into Europe's single-payer system and get preferential treatment while European citizens continue to complain about the waits and the denials of service?

Who said they get preferential treatment? Who is complaining about waits and denials?

[Agloco]

I thought socialist health care systems were supposed to equalize the playing field? Why are all these wealthy Americans able to waltz into Europe's single-payer system and get preferential treatment while European citizens continue to complain about the waits and the denials of service?

Waits and denial of service generally apply those procedures which have high patient throughput (radiologic imaging, general medicine/surgery, etc.) SHRT is not one of those modalities. Should any European citizen require targeted radiotherapy, it's readily available.

[boutons_deux]

"Why are all these wealthy Americans able to waltz into Europe's single-payer system and get preferential treatment while European citizens continue to complain about the waits and the denials of service"

It ain't free, who said they were getting treated by the national health system/doctors?

There are plenty of private clinics and doctors in all countries that have national health systems. And rich Euros get treated there, so I'm sure rich Americans will, too.

I expect getting treated by private docs/clinics in Europe is still cheaper than USA. US docs make 2x what docs make in other countries, the drugs and devices and supplies are bought "single buyer" and delivered much cheaper than in US, where the Human-American suckers basically subsidize cheap US drugs in other countries. It was the dubya Repugs who made rule forbidding VA/medicare/medicaid operating as single buyer, guaranteeing Human-Americans will continue to be fleeced for medical care.

You're an ignorant nativist/chauvinist, PussyEater

[Vici]

It amazes me that those who oppose universal health care don't know that there are still private doctors. Doctors get their free education and in return have to work a certain amount of time under the universal system then work in private practice. Absolutely no different than the way our military works.

[Wild Cobra]

I was under the impression that stem-cell is a proven treatment that's saving lives, with still plenty of room to grow.

Examples:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Health/successful-stem-cell-trachea-transplant/story?id=11308383

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8576493.stm

The US should be leading the pack here, but alas, it seems that you have to head to Europe for that kind of treatment.
Wow...

You want it both ways.

When we fast track procedures, and people sue... who's side are you on? Now you blame them for not fast tracking something?

[Wild Cobra]

lol B actually has a morsel of good insight here. There's definitely a conflict of interest where the FDA is concerned.
That's what happens when we make agencies to protect us. We loose our freedom to choose for ourselves.

I have no problem with them protecting us from others, but when we want to participate in such things, they remove our choice, unless we cross borders.

[boutons_deux]

"That's what happens when we make agencies to protect us"

That's what happens when agencies that have the power and charter to protect us from Corporate-Americans get captured/financed by C-As.

And nobody has the power to stand up to C-As and purge their corruption from all levels of govt, and one of the most corrupt/captured is your sacred military.

[ElNono]

Waits and denial of service generally apply those procedures which have high patient throughput (radiologic imaging, general medicine/surgery, etc.) SHRT is not one of those modalities. Should any European citizen require targeted radiotherapy, it's readily available.

Socialism!

[ElNono]

Wow...

You want it both ways.

When we fast track procedures, and people sue... who's side are you on? Now you blame them for not fast tracking something?

Why are people not suing in Europe over these procedures?

[Wild Cobra]

Why are people not suing in Europe over these procedures?
Because they don't have the same legal system we do.

[ElNono]

Because they don't have the same legal system we do.

They don't? :lol

What legal system do they have?