Questions on military and capitalism

[LnGrrrR]

If capitalism is the best system of work devised, why is our military so fundamentally socialist in nature? (ie, having a wage scale, forced PT, forced medical treatment etc etc)

Would the military benefit from more capitalistic ideas/structures? Or is there something intrinsic to the military in which capitalism wouldn't work?

[Ignignokt]

If capitalism is the best system of work devised, why is our military so fundamentally socialist in nature? (ie, having a wage scale, forced PT, forced medical treatment etc etc)

Would the military benefit from more capitalistic ideas/structures? Or is there something intrinsic to the military in which capitalism wouldn't work?

Socialism just means that the workers own the means of production.

[Ignignokt]

Also, the wealth of nations was written around the same time the constitution was formulized. The founders rebelled against mercantillism and advocated individual freedom and some free enterprise, but they still believed that the proper role of govt was to protect life liberty and property.

The constitution sanctions the state to raise taxes for a military. So from the begining the issue was decided with out considering free enterprise solutions.

[Th'Pusher]

Also, the wealth of nations was written around the same time the constitution was formulized. The founders rebelled against mercantillism and advocated individual freedom and some free enterprise, but they still believed that the proper role of govt was to protect life liberty and property.

The constitution sanctions the state to raise taxes for a military. So from the begining the issue was decided with out considering free enterprise solutions.

Do you believe the capatilist system is the best system for work and if so, would you be in favor of introducing capitalism for the military?

[Ignignokt]

Do you believe the capatilist system is the best system for work and if so, would you be in favor of introducing capitalism for the military?

No, although capitalism could do things more efficiently, i don't think the free market should deal force.

There are things that need to be tied to objective law, like the police, courts and military. Institutions of retalliatory force should not be subjected to the whims of private individuals, otherwise you'd have a society ruled by whim, and you wouldn't have capitalism for long because the brutes would rule by force and there would be hardly any institutions for voluntary exchange.


I'm not a market anarchist, I believe the proper role of govt is to defend life liberty and property, the military fulfills said functions.

[Th'Pusher]

No, although capitalism could do things more efficiently, i don't think the free market should deal force.

There are things that need to be tied to objective law, like the police, courts and military. Institutions of retalliatory force should not be subjected to the whims of private individuals, otherwise you'd have a society ruled by whim, and you wouldn't have capitalism for long because the brutes would rule by force and there would be hardly any institutions for voluntary exchange.


I'm not a market anarchist, I believe the proper role of govt is to defend life liberty and property, the military fulfills said functions.

So you wouldn't take issue with government defendinding life by criminalizing abortion?

[ElNono]

To the OP:

What capitalistic ideas/structures did you have in mind, if any?

In a way, there are some capitalistic angles already in use. Private contractors are fairly widespread.

[ChuckD]

Militaries pre-date capitalism by thousands of years, so it's no surprise they don't model it.

[LnGrrrR]

To the OP:

What capitalistic ideas/structures did you have in mind, if any?

In a way, there are some capitalistic angles already in use. Private contractors are fairly widespread.

The most obvious one would be if pay were determined not only by your rank, but by how well you did during your annual report.

Another might be conferring some form of bonuses upon squadrons that don't spend up to the full amount of their budget each year (which to me is an egregious example of fraud, waste and abuse).

[Viva Las Espuelas]

"which to me is an egregious example of fraud, waste and abuse"

Go Socialism :tu

[coyotes_geek]

The most obvious one would be if pay were determined not only by your rank, but by how well you did during your annual report.

Another might be conferring some form of bonuses upon squadrons that don't spend up to the full amount of their budget each year (which to me is an egregious example of fraud, waste and abuse).

That sounds more like a union shop vs. right-to-work discussion than a capitalist vs. socialist one.

That being said, I'm all for pay-for-performance.

[boutons_deux]

Much of the military is privatized, thanks to Repugs and their rampant contracting.

Contracting for short term is sometimes OK, but the Global War on Terror (really an anti-crime project, not a official war) is now endless and the contracting costs are just another wealth transfer from taxpayers to the MIC.

[TeyshaBlue]

If capitalism is the best system of work devised, why is our military so fundamentally socialist in nature? (ie, having a wage scale, forced PT, forced medical treatment etc etc)

Would the military benefit from more capitalistic ideas/structures? Or is there something intrinsic to the military in which capitalism wouldn't work?

Already been done. Pirates.

Besides, who the hell wants a CEO with a fucking howitzer?:lol

[Nbadan]

A private army holds no loyalty, except to money...global capitalists get that much cheaper by using the public military to protect their economic interests..

[ElNono]

The most obvious one would be if pay were determined not only by your rank, but by how well you did during your annual report.

Wouldn't that politicize the report process?


Another might be conferring some form of bonuses upon squadrons that don't spend up to the full amount of their budget each year (which to me is an egregious example of fraud, waste and abuse).

Not a bad idea, but a double edged sword. Conceivably, there would be an incentive to cut corners in order to receive a bonus.

[Cane]

No I don't think military and capitalism would really work. Mostly because it'd be too expensive and its far cheaper to dangle medals and rank than it is to pay what their services/time/risk/etc are actually worth.

But in such a system would the Marines become some of the highest paid service people in the USA? After all they're the elite military branch and risk their lives in the field more than the chair force and others that stay in the rear with the gear.

[LnGrrrR]

Wouldn't that politicize the report process?

There already is some politics involved, at least in the AF. Each person has an annual performance report, and usually community involvement/volunteering/education are looked at on equal footing with the actual work accomplished. (Since you're "supposed" to be doing work anyways.)


Not a bad idea, but a double edged sword. Conceivably, there would be an incentive to cut corners in order to receive a bonus.

True that, but the current system (whereby squadrons still have money at the end of the year and race to spend it so their budgets aren't cut) is chockful of moral hazard as is.