Should Kobe have given Paul Pierce his MVP after the '08 Finals?

[midnightpulp]

Here's how they matched up in the relevant games in that series:

Game 1:

Pierce - 22 points on 70%

Bryant - 24 points on 35%

Game 2:

Bryant - 30 points on 48%

Pierce - 28 points on 56%

Game 4 (by far the most important game in the series):

Bryant - 17 points on 32%

Pierce - 20 points on 46%

Game - 5

Bryant - 25 points on 38%

Pierce - 38 points on 46%

Game - 6 (the legendary 39)

Bryant - 22 points on 32% with 1 assist

Pierce - 17 points on 30% but had 10 assists to Bryant's 1.

If "The Mamba" had any honor, he would've walked over to Pierce and handed his MVP trophy to the man who completely outplayed him. Would've been the right thing to do.

[LkrFan]

This thread has butthurt all over it. Props. :lol

[midnightpulp]

:cry :cry :cry Pierce outplayed mah Kobe :cry :cry :cry

Oh, and Ewing still blows.

[Leetonidas]

lol dodging the question

[LkrFan]

Oh, and Ewing still blows.

Kobe won more LOBs than Spurs' franchise.

Kobe = :lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:

Spurs = :lobt:*:lobt::lobt::lobt:

[Leetonidas]

Kobe won more LOBs than Spurs' franchise.

Kobe = :lobt:*:lobt:*:lobt:**:lobt::lobt:

Spurs = :lobt:*:lobt::lobt::lobt:

fify

[LkrFan]

fify

:lol

[Koolaid_Man]

Here's how they matched up in the relevant games in that series:

Game 1:

Pierce - 22 points on 70%

Bryant - 24 points on 35%

Game 2:

Bryant - 30 points on 48%

Pierce - 28 points on 56%

Game 4 (by far the most important game in the series):

Bryant - 17 points on 32%

Pierce - 20 points on 46%

Game - 5

Bryant - 25 points on 38%

Pierce - 38 points on 46%

Game - 6 (the legendary 39)

Bryant - 22 points on 32% with 1 assist

Pierce - 17 points on 30% but had 10 assists to Bryant's 1.

If "The Mamba" had any honor, he would've walked over to Pierce and handed his MVP trophy to the man who completely outplayed him. Would've been the right thing to do.


Hey Midget my main man...:lol The Boston Fans Have Spoken....:lmao

YsXPZVPIjxE

[pass1st]

That's why he got a finals MVP, not a season MVP

[Giuseppe]

Pierce backin' up on Artest.

tee, hee.

[midnightpulp]

Pierce backin' up on Artest.

tee, hee.

Mesa throwin' grapefruits.

tee, hee.

[baseline bum]

No, he should have given that MVP to LeBron.

[lefty]

Lol Kobe pwned by nasty breath

[Giuseppe]

Mesa throwin' grapefruits.

tee, hee.


lmcontrollinao!!!

AZ Central, or, here.

tee, hee.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe - 26/5/5/3/0
Peirce - 22/5/6/1/0

The answer is no

[Deuce Bigalow]

and lol at your agenda, where's game 3?

here it is, game 3

Kobe - 36/7/1, 60%FG
Peirce - 6/6/3, 14%FG

[midnightpulp]

and lol at your agenda, where's game 3?

here it is, game 3

Kobe - 36/7/1, 60%FG
Peirce - 6/6/3, 14%FG

Game 3 was irrelevant, as most game 3s are for the team who goes up 2-0. When there was a chance to tie up the series, Kobe went into choke mode (as he often does when the pressure is actually on).

[Koolaid_Man]

just like that 99 ring was irrelevant

[AaronY]

This is like Romper Room.

[Giuseppe]

Artest,,,makin' Pierce flinch.

tee, hee.

[Giuseppe]

This is like Romper Room.

Or, 8.

tee, hee.

[midnightpulp]

Artest,,,makin' Pierce flinch.

tee, hee.

Mesa servin' breakfast to the Marlins instead of fastballs.

tee, hee.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Game 3 was irrelevant, as most game 3s are for the team who goes up 2-0. When there was a chance to tie up the series, Kobe went into choke mode (as he often does when the pressure is actually on).

wtf?
If LA lost that game they go down 0-3, which no team ever came back from
you dumbass

and chokes when the games on the line? lol, he is known as one of the clutchest players of alltime
sure looked like it here
Rzbnp-Dt7mI&feature=mfu

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe - 26/5/5/3/0
Peirce - 22/5/6/1/0

game 3
Kobe - 36/7/1, 60%FG
Peirce - 6/6/3, 14%FG

/ thread

[midnightpulp]

wtf?
If LA lost that game they go down 0-3, which no team ever came back from
you dumbass

and chokes when the games on the line? lol, he is known as one of the clutchest players of alltime
sure looked like it here
Rzbnp-Dt7mI&feature=mfu

Lol at posting highlights from Game 5 as an example, a game where Kobe, once again, got outplayed by Paul Pierce.

So Kobe outplayed Pierce in one fuckin' game. Big deal. Paul Pierce beat down that ass in every other game.

And he does choke. His stats in playoff close out games (on either side, whether the Lakers are on the verge of closing out or being closed out) are terrible.

Also, he shoots 30% on game winners. It was 25% (3 percent below the league average) before that lucky streak in '10.

So fuckin' clutch.

[midnightpulp]

Kobe - 26/5/5/3/0
Peirce - 22/5/6/1/0

game 3
Kobe - 36/7/1, 60%FG
Peirce - 6/6/3, 14%FG

/ thread

Why are you afraid to post their FG% in the top stat line?

[Deuce Bigalow]

these were the averages

Kobe - 26/5/5/3/0
Peirce - 22/5/6/1/0

Peirce kicked Kobe's ass?
lol

and Kobe has the most gamewinners of alltime, so yes clutch

[Deuce Bigalow]

Why are you afraid to post their FG% in the top stat line?

43 to 41

[Giuseppe]

Mesa servin' breakfast to the Marlins instead of fastballs.

tee, hee.


lmcontrollinao!!!

AZ Central, or, here.

tee, hee.

[AaronY]

Or, 8.

tee, hee.
Should I care what that refers to?

[midnightpulp]

these were the averages

Kobe - 26/5/5/3/0
Peirce - 22/5/6/1/0

Peirce kicked Kobe's ass?
lol

and Kobe has the most gamewinners of alltime, so yes clutch

Those stats are only moderately close because Kobe's meaningless game 3 was far superior to Pierce's, therefore skewing the results and making their respective performances seem close, when in fact, they weren't. In all the other games, Kobe was outplayed. Do you deny this?

And lol at most game winners. If you have the most attempts at something, there's a good chance you might also have the most "success" at it.

[Nathan89]

these were the averages

Kobe - 26/5/5/3/0
Peirce - 22/5/6/1/0

Peirce kicked Kobe's ass?
lol

and Kobe has the most gamewinners of alltime, so yes clutch

The statistical evidence says he's not.

[picc84]

Somebody say 39?

pJ0kx719ZKA&

How did Duncan go 3-14 (21%) in a must-win when he's shooting right at the rim?


Game 3 was irrelevant, as most game 3s are for the team who goes up 2-0.

So Lakers weren't even trying and they put 39 on the Spurs? Damn.

[Nathan89]

Should Kobe have given Paul Pierce his MVP after the '08 Finals?

[midnightpulp]

Somebody say 39?

pJ0kx719ZKA&

How did Duncan go 3-14 (21%) in a must-win when he's shooting right at the rim?



So Lakers weren't even trying and they put 39 on the Spurs? Damn.

Bad shooting night. It happens. You should be quite familiar with the concept after watching Kobe Bryant all these years. :lol

[Nathan89]

Difference is his teammates bail him out and he gets all the glory.

[midnightpulp]

Difference is his teammates bail him out and he gets all the glory.

To his credit, Kobe was pretty good in '01. Any star perimeter player should be when you have Danny Ferry, Steve Smith, and Terry Porter d-ing you up.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Those stats are only moderately close because Kobe's meaningless game 3 was far superior to Pierce's, therefore skewing the results and making their respective performances seem close, when in fact, they weren't. In all the other games, Kobe was outplayed. Do you deny this?

And lol at most game winners. If you have the most attempts at something, there's a good chance you might also have the most "success" at it.

lol you might be mentally impaired

[picc84]

Bad shooting night. It happens. You should be quite familiar with the concept after watching Kobe Bryant all these years. :lol

3-14 for a big man though? At least guards are shooting from distance, this nigga is literally under the rim bricking his team into 39. Thats like 3-40 from a guard :lol

:lol swept in his prime

:lol irrelevant game

:lmao 7-footer going 3-14

[Deuce Bigalow]

Somebody say 39?

pJ0kx719ZKA&

How did Duncan go 3-14 (21%) in a must-win when he's shooting right at the rim?



So Lakers weren't even trying and they put 39 on the Spurs? Damn.

:lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

104-90
88-81
111-72
111-82
http://alumni.cs.ucr.edu/%7Eplonjers/400px-Broom_icon.svg.png
:lol

[Giuseppe]

should i care what that refers to?

8

[midnightpulp]

3-14 for a big man though? At least guards are shooting from distance, this nigga is literally under the rim bricking his team into 39. Thats like 3-40 from a guard :lol

:lol swept in his prime

:lol irrelevant game

:lmao 7-footer going 3-14

No it's not, actually, but nice try :tu

And 3-14 was only one game. It was shitty, sure, but still, only a single game. On the other hand, Kobe's been known to shoot similar to that in a series.

And why are you laughing at Duncan getting swept? Last I checked, Kobe leads Duncan in that department, 3 to 2. That's another stat you should be very familiar with, considering it's identical to the number of Finals MVPs both players have.

[Deuce Bigalow]

No it's not, actually, but nice try :tu

And 3-14 was only one game. It was shitty, sure, but still, only a single game. On the other hand, Kobe's been known to shoot similar to that in a series.

And why are you laughing at Duncan getting swept? Last I checked, Kobe leads Duncan in that department, 3 to 2.That's another stat you should be very familiar with, considering it's identical to the number of Finals MVPs both player have.

Last time I checked Kobe leads Duncan in championships 5 to 4
and Duncan leads Kobe in losing a playoff series with HCA 5 to 2

[Leetonidas]

lol bringing up shit from a decade ago :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Last time I checked Kobe leads Duncan in championships 5 to 4
and Duncan leads Kobe in losing a series with HCA 5 to 2


Team accomplishments. Try to keep up and actually cite stats that are relevant to individual player comparisons.

Havlicek leads Kobe 8 to 5 in rings.

And lol at the meaningless HCA stat.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Team accomplishments. Try to keep up and actually cite stats that are relevant to individual player comparisons.

Havlicek leads Kobe 8 to 5 in rings.

And lol at the meaningless HCA stat.

stats? kobes numbers > duncans

[Leetonidas]

Yeah if you wanna talk player vs. player we have to go on individual success where Tim shits all over Kobe, lol @ 1 more ring when 3 of those are Shaq's :lmao


4× NBA Champion (1999, 2003, 2005, 2007)
3× NBA Finals MVP (1999, 2003, 2005)
2× NBA Most Valuable Player (2002–2003)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1998)
13× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2011)
9× All-NBA First Team (1998–2005, 2007)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2006, 2008–2009)
All-NBA Third Team (2010)
8× All-Defensive First Team (1999–2003, 2005, 2007–2008)
5× All-Defensive Second Team (1998, 2004, 2006, 2009–2010)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1998)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2000)
USBWA College Player of the Year (1997)
Naismith College Player of the Year (1997)
John Wooden Award (1997)
2× ACC Player of the Year (1996–1997)


As far as individual success goes, Duncan has more MVPs and Finals MVPs than Kobe Bryant, more playoff appearances, the only player in history to win at least 2 titles without an All-NBA player in that season, and the only player to be selected to All-NBA and All-Defense in his first 13 seasons.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-3

#3 Finals performance ever. Where's Kobe? At #15 with his best while Merlin has two in the top 11.


Let us proceed

[midnightpulp]

stats? kobes numbers > duncans

Not even close, kid.

There really isn’t any diplomatic way to this: Tim Duncan’s playoff performances essentially run circles over Kobe Bryant’s. Indeed, the Big Fundamental has five postseason performances that surpass Kobe Bryant’s best playoff run (2001-02, 2005-06, 2002-03, 2006-07, 2008-09) and also several other notable playoff performances. It’s not by accident that fans and people in the media shower Duncan with praise and peg him as the best power forward of all time; he has had an exceptional career.

http://www.warriorsworld.net/2011/02/20/kobe-duncan-debate-close/

Stop looking at only PPG. Five overall statistically better performances than Kobe's best one, but Kobe's numbers>Duncan? :lol

[LkrFan]

104-90
88-81
111-72
111-82
http://alumni.cs.ucr.edu/%7Eplonjers/400px-Broom_icon.svg.png
:lol

:lmao

[midnightpulp]

Anyhow, I'm done with Kobe/Duncan debate. It's not even really that close, imo. Let's stick to the topic of the thread: Should Kobe have given his Finals MVP to Paul Pierce?

Lkrfan, Deuce, Picc84, etc. Care to answer.

[LkrFan]

3/14 is TURRIBLE for a big man. You can NOT :downspin: that shit. Don't even fucking try it midget. :lol

[LkrFan]

Anyhow, I'm done with Kobe/Duncan debate. It's not even really that close, imo. Let's stick to the topic of the thread: Should Kobe have given his Finals MVP to Paul Pierce?

Lkrfan, Deuce, Picc84, etc. Care to answer.

Should the Sp*rs give back their 2011 regular season best record title to the 2011 8th seeded Grizz? If this was the great Tim Duncan's last playoff series, he went out "on bottom" :lol

*1st 1 seed to lose to 8th seed in best of 7. :downspin:

[Leetonidas]

6-24 is TURRIBLE for a 3rd grader

[midnightpulp]

3/14 is TURRIBLE for a big man. You can NOT :downspin: that shit. Don't even fucking try it midget. :lol

Indeed. If he had too many more performance like that, he probably wouldn't have better stats than Kobe and be behind in the Finals MVP count. Lucky for me, he didn't :tu

[Deuce Bigalow]

Not even close, kid.

There really isn’t any diplomatic way to this: Tim Duncan’s playoff performances essentially run circles over Kobe Bryant’s. Indeed, the Big Fundamental has five postseason performances that surpass Kobe Bryant’s best playoff run (2001-02, 2005-06, 2002-03, 2006-07, 2008-09) and also several other notable playoff performances. It’s not by accident that fans and people in the media shower Duncan with praise and peg him as the best power forward of all time; he has had an exceptional career.

http://www.warriorsworld.net/2011/02/20/kobe-duncan-debate-close/

Stop looking at only PPG. Five overall statistically better performances than Kobe's best one, but Kobe's numbers>Duncan? :lol

:lmao

Kobe's playoff numbers >>> Duncans

lol at Duncan's 22/11, 23/13 championship run stats, weak shit

[LkrFan]

Indeed. If he had too many more performance like that, he probably wouldn't have better stats than Kobe and be behind in the Finals MVP count. Lucky for me, he didn't :tu

He kicks Kobe's ass in Bronze medal counts though. :tu

[Leetonidas]

Should the Sp*rs give back their 2011 regular season best record title to the 2011 8th seeded Grizz? If this was the great Tim Duncan's last playoff series, he went out "on bottom" :lol

*1st 1 seed to lose to 8th seed in best of 7. :downspin:

Holy shit you really did start watching basketball two years ago :lmao :lmao :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Should the Sp*rs give back their 2011 regular season best record title to the 2011 8th seeded Grizz? If this was the great Tim Duncan's last playoff series, he went out "on bottom" :lol

*1st 1 seed to lose to 8th seed in best of 7. :downspin:

Not the topic of this thread. Make your own thread if you desire an answer to that question.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe's 30/5/6, 29/7/6, 29/6/6 championship playoff runs >> Duncan's

[LkrFan]

6-24 is TURRIBLE for a 3rd grader

6/24 in a championship winning effort (to go along with 15 rebs BTW) is >>>> 3/14 during the tale end of an ass reaming. :lol

[Nathan89]

Why are we comparing a guy who can't win without a top 5 player in the NBA to Tim Duncan?????

[Leetonidas]

Also we all know Duncan was clearly robbed of 2 blocks in Game 6 of the 2003 Finals so really he's the only player in NBA history to post a quad-double in the Finals. :wow Much more impressive than hanging 81 on a shitty Raptors team

[Leetonidas]

6/24 in a championship winning effort (to go along with 15 rebs BTW) is >>>> 3/14 during the tale end of an ass reaming. :lol

Oh so rebounds matter when Kobe grabs them but not when Tim is pulling down 17+ a game in the Finals?

[Leetonidas]

Kobe's 30/5/6, 29/7/6, 29/6/6 championship playoff runs >> Duncan's

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-3


ESPN, who usually love sucking Kobe's dick, admits the truth

[midnightpulp]

He kicks Kobe's ass in Bronze medal counts though. :tu

Is that your new weak default when you're getting owned? And yet that is still a team accomplishment. Looking at the Olympic stats for both players here, I see that Duncan's stats are superior to Kobe's. Not surprised, since that's the way it always has been,

Oh, and Ewing blows.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Why are we comparing a guy who can't win without a top 5 player in the NBA to Tim Duncan?????

I guess Jordan, Kareem, Magic suck then

[LkrFan]

Not the topic of this thread. Make your own thread if you desire an answer to that question.

Nah, I don't want to waste bandwidth. And what, no stats or witty come backs? I'll take that as a concession. :toast

TD's legend ended in a bitter loss to LA's JV teamPERIOD. :depressed

[Nathan89]

Also we all know Duncan was clearly robbed of 2 blocks in Game 6 of the 2003 Finals so really he's the only player in NBA history to post a quad-double in the Finals. :wow Much more impressive than hanging 81 on a shitty Raptors team

is this true?

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2011/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-3


ESPN, who usually love sucking Kobe's dick, admits the truth

playoff runs, do you know what that is?

anyways, duncan has that 03 finals, but Kobes 2009 and 2002 finals are better than Duncans other 3

[Nathan89]

I guess Jordan, Kareem, Magic suck then

Was Pippen a top 5 talent in the NBA?

[Leetonidas]

I guess Jordan, Kareem, Magic suck then

Jordan
Barkley
Malone
Olajuwon
O'Neal

5 players better than Scottie right off the top of my head from the 90s, try again without mentioning Jordan who Kobe will NEVER even come close to touching. Your Laker love boys I can't speak for

[LkrFan]

Oh so rebounds matter when Kobe grabs them but not when Tim is pulling down 17+ a game in the Finals?

That's right. A big man is supposed to grab 10+ rebs. Not a guard that doesn't "do any thing but play on the perimeter". I guess those 15 rebs kind of debunks that theory huh? Kind of like Kobe can't win without Shaq. Now it's Kobe can't win without a big man. :rolleyes

[Nathan89]

Did Pippen win the majority of the finals Mvp's?

[Leetonidas]

playoff runs, do you know what that is?

anyways, duncan has that 03 finals, but Kobes 2009 and 2002 finals are better than Duncans other 3

Do you realize that the Spurs played at a slower pace than the Lakers and Kobe had a much higher usage rate/more shot attempts?

[Leetonidas]

That's right. A big man is supposed to grab 10+ rebs. Not a guard that doesn't "do any thing but play on the perimeter". I guess those 15 rebs kind of debunks that theory huh? Kind of like Kobe can't win without Shaq. Now it's Kobe can't win without a big man. :rolleyes

If he hadn't missed 75% of his shots he wouldn't have needed to grab 15 rebounds

[midnightpulp]

playoff runs, do you know what that is?

anyways, duncan has that 03 finals, but Kobes 2009 and 2002 finals are better than Duncans other 3

Not what the stats say. But keep believing your own opinion, little guy :tu

[Spursfan092120]

Kobe - 26/5/5/3/0
Peirce - 22/5/6/1/0

The answer is no


and lol at your agenda, where's game 3?

here it is, game 3

Kobe - 36/7/1, 60%FG
Peirce - 6/6/3, 14%FG

http://www.morningtoast.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads//2011/06/stats.jpg

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe's top playoff runs when winning a championship
2009 - 30/6/5
2001 - 29/7/6
2010 - 29/6/6

what are Duncan's?

[Spursfan092120]

Jordan
Barkley
Malone
Olajuwon
O'Neal

5 players better than Scottie right off the top of my head from the 90s, try again without mentioning Jordan who Kobe will NEVER even come close to touching. Your Laker love boys I can't speak for

Still can't figure out if this Deuce guy is a troll, or just mentally retarded.

[Leetonidas]

PPG > all

[Deuce Bigalow]

Not what the stats say. But keep believing your own opinion, little guy :tu

Kobe's 2002 and 2009 Finals > Duncan's 99, 05, 07 Finals

[LkrFan]

Holy shit you really did start watching basketball two years ago :lmao :lmao :lmao

Name the other team (I know I know - misery loves company). But before you do, holla at me if that other team is the Lakers. :downspin:

[LkrFan]

PPG > all

Yep - that's why they say MJ is the GOAT. Highest career PPG in NBA history. Or am I wrong on that account too? :downspin:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe's top playoff runs when winning a championship
2009 - 30/6/5
2001 - 29/7/6
2010 - 29/6/6

what are Duncan's?

still waiting....

[Leetonidas]

Name the other team (I know I know - misery loves company). But before you do, holla at me if that other team is the Lakers. :downspin:

I'll give you a hint -- they just bukkaked and facefucked your Lakers a couple months back

[Leetonidas]

still waiting....

And 46% was the highest FG% he could muster :lmao

[Nathan89]

Damn game three really did make the numbers look close. In reality Pierce shitted all over Kobe. He really should just give him the MVP.

[midnightpulp]

That's right. A big man is supposed to grab 10+ rebs. Not a guard that doesn't "do any thing but play on the perimeter". I guess those 15 rebs kind of debunks that theory huh? Kind of like Kobe can't win without Shaq. Now it's Kobe can't win without a big man. :rolleyes

And now you're finally getting the point. The fact that big men "should" be grabbing 10 or more rebounds a game demonstrates the greater importance and impact they have on the court. A shooting guard's impact usually only goes as far as his scoring and playmaking, while premier bigs are tasked with scoring, rebounding, defending the paint, and playmaking. It's why Kobe couldn't win shit until the best frontline in the league came his way.

[Leetonidas]

24.7/15.4/5.3/3.3 shits on any of Kobe's playoff runs, easily. I'll take the almost 3 and a half blocks and 10 more rebounds over the .7 less assists and 5 more points (and about 5-7% less FG%) :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Kobe's 2002 and 2009 Finals > Duncan's 99, 05, 07 Finals

The stats still don't back up your retarded opinion. Keep fighting the good fight :tu

[Nathan89]

still waiting....

TS% shows Kobe hasn't been the best player on his team in the regular season or the playoffs in a championship year.

[Deuce Bigalow]

And 46% was the highest FG% he could muster :lmao

TS% of over 57%

a perimeter player shooting 46% is good

[midnightpulp]

Yep - that's why they say MJ is the GOAT. Highest career PPG in NBA history. Or am I wrong on that account too? :downspin:

And it would also suggest that Iverson is better than Kobe.

Lol PPG.

[Leetonidas]

lol TS% :lmao

And it's decent and that was his best. Perhaps if he didn't always choke massively in the Finals he'd have better percentages.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The stats still don't back up your retarded opinion. Keep fighting the good fight :tu

2009 Finals
32.4 PPG, 5.4 RPG, 7.4 APG
first player since Jerry West to average 32/7 in a finals series

2002 Finals
27/6/5 on 63%TS

[Deuce Bigalow]

lol TS% :lmao

And it's decent and that was his best. Perhaps if he didn't always choke massively in the Finals he'd have better percentages.

:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:
choking?

[Nathan89]

TS% shows Kobe hasn't been the best player on his team in the regular season or the playoffs in a championship year.

:lmao 2nd best player being compared to Tim Duncan

[Leetonidas]

:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:
choking?

http://dugger1981.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/shaq-retires.jpg

[Leetonidas]

funny how Lakerfan acts like Shaq was Rik Smits or something

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe>Duncan

Duncan and his mediocre 22/12 playoff runs lol

[Nathan89]

:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:
Choking?
6-24

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://dugger1981.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/shaq-retires.jpg

your point?

[midnightpulp]

For Deuce:

Duncan's '99 playoff PER: 25.1

Kobe's '02 playoff PER: 20.1

That's a huge disparity.

Duncan's '05 playoff PER: 24.9

Kobe's '09 playoff PER: 24.4

Duncan's '07 playoff PER: 27.4

Kobe's 10 playoff PER: 24.7

The stats don't back you up. Sorry.

[Deuce Bigalow]

6-24


10 4th quarter points in the 4th quarter of game 7 and 15 rebounds
:lol

[Nathan89]

You can't compare a the 2nd best player to Tim Duncan.

[Deuce Bigalow]

For Deuce:

Duncan's '99 playoff PER: 25.1

Kobe's '02 playoff PER: 20.1

That's a huge disparity.

Duncan's '05 playoff PER: 24.9

Kobe's '09 playoff PER: 24.4

Duncan's '07 playoff PER: 27.4

Kobe's 10 playoff PER: 24.7

The stats don't back you up. Sorry.

PER?
:lmao

lets give it up to the 2nd Greatest Player of Alltime, David Robinson*
*according to PER

[Leetonidas]

For Deuce:

Duncan's '99 playoff PER: 25.1

Kobe's '02 playoff PER: 20.1

That's a huge disparity.

Duncan's '05 playoff PER: 24.9

Kobe's '09 playoff PER: 24.4

Duncan's '07 playoff PER: 27.4

Kobe's 10 playoff PER: 24.7

The stats don't back you up. Sorry.

PER is worthless! But TS% isn't!!! :downspin::downspin:

[Deuce Bigalow]

You can't compare a the 2nd best player to Tim Duncan.

you cant compare a 22/12 guy to a 29/6/6 guy

[Leetonidas]

PER?
:lmao

lets give it up to the 2nd Greatest Player of Alltime, David Robinson*
*according to PER

David is 4th on the all-time PER list dumbshit

[Deuce Bigalow]

PER is worthless! But TS% isn't!!! :downspin::downspin:

posting FG% of a SG and C doesnt work, Kobe takes 3s, do you know what a 3 pointer is?

[Nathan89]

TS%
:lmao

You did it to yourself.

[Leetonidas]

posting FG% of a SG and C doesnt work, Kobe takes 3s, do you know what a 3 pointer is?

:lmao

Like it matters when Kobe's usual statline is something along the lines of 8-32 for 25 points

[Nathan89]

PER is worthless! But TS% isn't!!! :downspin::downspin:

TBH, I kinda like the implications of the TS%.

[Deuce Bigalow]

David is 4th on the all-time PER list dumbshit

Kareem, Magic, Hakeem, Kobe, Bird are not even top 10*

*according to PER

[Deuce Bigalow]

:lmao

Like it matters when Kobe's usual statline is something along the lines of 8-32 for 25 points

Kobe doesnt have games like that
and Kobe rarely even takes 30+ shots, he never had a series of 30+ FGA average

[Nathan89]

Can you imagine how many championships Duncan would have if he was the 2nd best player on the Spurs?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Can you imagine how many championships Duncan would have if he was the 2nd best player on the Spurs?

he won 2, 2005 and 2007

[Nathan89]

he won 2, 2005 and 2007

He was the MVP on both of those teams. He was the best player on the 2005 team. If he was a Kobe like player he would have won the MVP in 2007.

[midnightpulp]

PER?
:lmao

lets give it up to the 2nd Greatest Player of Alltime, David Robinson*
*according to PER

David is 4th all time in regular season PER. And besides, Robinson is one of the greatest regular season players of all time, which is ultimately meaningless when you don't follow through in the playoffs.

I've explained to you how PER is legitimate and you've yet to come up with a reasonable counter-argument other than "b-b-but player A has a higher PER than player B and we all know player B is bettah so PER is no good! :cry."

Jordan is number 1 all time in both playoff and regular season PER. And he's considered the GOAT, so....

[Deuce Bigalow]

He was the MVP on both of those teams. He was the best player on the 2005 team. He was a Kobe like player he would have won the MVP in 2007.

Manu was the best player in the 2005 Playoffs and Finals

Parker was the best player in the 2007 Finals

[Leetonidas]

2005? That's funny seeing as how Duncan beat Ginobili in your favorite stat category, PPG. Please explain to me how Ginobili's FG% and lower point totals makes him better that year (oh the irony) :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

David is 4th all time in regular season PER. And besides, Robinson is one of the greatest regular season players of all time, which is ultimately meaningless when you don't follow through in the playoffs.

I've explained to you how PER is legitimate and you've yet to come up with a reasonable counter-argument other than "b-b-but player A has a higher PER than player B and we all know player B is bettah so PER is no good! :cry."

Jordan is number 1 all time in both playoff and regular season PER. And he's considered the GOAT, so....

Kareem, Magic, Hakeem, Kobe, Bird are not even top 10*

*according to PER

[Leetonidas]

Again, Parker scored the most points - he was not the best player.

Fuck you're stupid.

[Nathan89]

Manu was the best player in the 2005 Playoffs and Finals

Parker was the best player in the 2007 Finals


He was the MVP on both of those teams. He was the best player on the 2005 team. If he was a Kobe like player he would have won the MVP in 2007.

Since you didn't read what I said.

Do you need me to explain the bold part? Or can you figure it out?

[Leetonidas]

It should also be noted that Kobe fails miserably in the WS department where Jordan is once again number 1 and Duncan is in the top 10, of course.

[Deuce Bigalow]

2005? That's funny seeing as how Duncan beat Ginobili in your favorite stat category, PPG. Please explain to me how Ginobili's FG% and lower point totals makes him better that year (oh the irony) :lol

2005 Playoffs
Duncan - 23.5 ppg on .526 %TS
Manu - 20.8 ppg on .652 %TS

the efficiency is way better, and the dudes a SG lol

2005 Finals
Duncan - 20.6 ppg on .471 %TS
Manu - 18.7 ppg on .636 %TS

a SG should not be shooting 12-16% better efficiency than a PF

[Leetonidas]

So efficiency matters when comparing Ginobili to Duncan but not Kobe to Duncan? :lmao

LAWL

[midnightpulp]

Kareem, Magic, Hakeem, Kobe, Bird are not even top 10*

*according to PER

I just have to face palm your retardation now.

Kareem and Hakeem would be expected to have a lower PER because they played a lot of seasons and their declining output at the end of their careers brought down their overall average, just like any other stat. Still, Hakeem is top 5 all-time in playoff PER. As for Bird and Magic, PER's one flaw is that it undervalues assists, so it might underrate them, but that said, when Bird was winning MVPs he also led the league in PER.

As for Kobe, I agree that he shouldn't be in the top 10, so no argument there.

[Nathan89]

It should also be noted that Deuce fails miserably in the cognitive department.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Again, Parker scored the most points - he was not the best player.

Fuck you're stupid.

he was the best player in the 2007 Finals, its not even a debate

[Deuce Bigalow]

I just have to face palm your retardation now.

Kareem and Hakeem would be expected to have a lower PER because they played a lot of seasons and their declining output at the end of their careers brought down their overall average, just like any other stat. Still, Hakeem is top 5 all-time in playoff PER. As for Bird and Magic, PER's one flaw is that it undervalues assists, so it might underrate them, but that said, when Bird was winning MVPs he also led the league in PER.

As for Kobe, I agree that he shouldn't be in the top 10, so no argument there.

:lol

the best player in the 2000s with 5 championships and 3rd alltime in playoff points not top 10? :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

there are 4 players in NBA History with 5 championships and multiple finals MVPs, can you name them?

[midnightpulp]

This is why true shooting percentage is massively flawed. In a nutshell, it would suggest that a player (A) who scored 18 points via the 3 pointer on 6 of 20 shooting has essentially the same percentage as the player (B) who went 9 for 20. What it doesn't account for is that player A gave the opposition 3 more possessions without a score than player B. If the opposition shoots 50%, player A gave back 3 more points than player B. And those extra points could wind up being the difference maker in a game.

But keep fighting the good fight with TS%, little guy.

[midnightpulp]

:lol

the best player in the 2000s with 5 championships and 3rd alltime in playoff points not top 10? :lol

Rings are a team accomplishment, though.

As for playoff points, if you play enough games, you're bound to pile up the points.

[Deuce Bigalow]

This is why true shooting percentage is massively flawed. In a nutshell, it would suggest that a player (A) who scored 18 points via the 3 pointer on 6 of 20 shooting has essentially the same percentage as the player (B) who went 9 for 20. What it doesn't account for is that player A gave the opposition 3 more possessions without a score than player B. If the opposition shoots 50%, player A gave back 1.5 more points than player B. And those extra points could wind up being the difference maker in a game.

But keep fighting the good fight with TS%, little guy.

2 pointers
50/100 (50%) = 100 points

3 pointers
35/100 (35%) = 105 points

player A
8/16 FG
0/0 3s
6/6 FTs
22 points

player B
7/16 FG
2/6 3s
6/6 FTs
22 points

efficiency should take into account 3-pointers (like TS% does) and even FT% is important too

[midnightpulp]

2 pointers
50/100 (50%) = 100 points

3 pointers
35/100 (35%) = 105 points

player A
8/16 FG
0/0 3s
6/6 FTs
22 points

player B
7/16 FG
2/6 3s
6/6 FTs
22 points

You're incredibly retarded. Whose troll are you, seriously? If this is you, BUMP. Well done.

In your first example, the 3 point shooter is giving an extra 15 possessions without a score to the opponent! If the other team shoots 50%, that's an additional 15 points. Do you understand why 3 point shooting teams never win shit, even good ones? Because even optimally, the 3 point shot is a low percentage shot, and the worst thing you can do is give the opponent possessions when you don't score.

And in the second example, player B is still giving up an extra possession.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You're incredibly retarded. Whose troll are you, seriously? If this is you, BUMP. Well done.

In your first example, the 3 point shooter is giving an extra 15 possessions without a score to the opponent! If the other team shoots 50%, that's an additional 15 points. Do you understand why 3 point shooting teams never win shit, even good ones? Because even optimally, the 3 point shot is a low percentage shot, and the worst thing you can do is give the opponent possessions when you don't score.

And in the second example, player B is still giving up an extra possession.


Player A takes 100 shots and scores 100 points
Player B takes 100 shots and scores 105 points

they took the same amount of possessions

[picc84]

And 3-14 was only one game.

One irrelevant game for the Lakers. They weren't even trying and they put 39 on your squad. Duncan went 3-14 against a team that wasn't even sweating it...thats gotta burn. :wow


It was shitty, sure, but still, only a single game.

He went out like that against Kobe in 08 (7-19? really Jim???). And lets not forget his 10-27 in game 7 against Detroit (11 rbs...kobe had more boards too? damn, timmy)...or his 4-15 in game 4 against shitty ass Cleveland and their decrepit frontline.

A 7-footer shooting that abysmally....thank god he had Manu, Horry, and Parker there to bail him out. :lol You don't see Hakeem, or Shaq throwing up bricks like that. Fuck, you don't even see Barkley doing that.

I'm saying though, Timmy is right at the rim? All he gotta do is reach up! All that height, for no reason. :lol


And why are you laughing at Duncan getting swept? Last I checked, Kobe leads Duncan in that department, 3 to 2. That's another stat you should be very familiar with, considering it's identical to the number of Finals MVPs both players have.

Jim was in his prime and the leader of the team. How do you let that happen...in your prime? As the leader?

I can understand tired old shitbag Jim last year getting his brakes beat off, and tired old shitbag Kobe taking it up the ass this year, but only one of them has been swept (with HC, and 39)....in his prime.

And this is supposed to be the greatest PF ever? Prime Dirk has some of the worst playoff collapses ever, but even he had enough pride to lead his team to one victory.

....

This nigga is at the rim. :lol

[Nathan89]

Kobe has never been the best player on the team throughout the playoffs or the regular season during a championship season.

If you don't trust me check the TS%.

Duncan has been the best player on his team during the playoffs and the regular season.(during championship seasons)

Kobe has never won a ring without a top 5 player on his team.

Duncan has won 4 rings without a top 10 player on his team.

Until these things change Kobe(2nd best player on his team) shouldn't be compared to Tim Duncan(best player on his team).

[picc84]

Anyhow, I'm done with Kobe/Duncan debate. It's not even really that close, imo. Let's stick to the topic of the thread: Should Kobe have given his Finals MVP to Paul Pierce?

Lkrfan, Deuce, Picc84, etc. Care to answer.

Why would kobe give a finals mvp to Pierce that he already had? :downspin:

If anything Pierce should have gave it to Ray Allen or KG.


Can you imagine how many championships Duncan would have if he was the 2nd best player on the Spurs?

He already has two championships as the 2nd best player on the Spurs. :lol His last two to be specific.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Duncan's game 7

25 points on 27 shots
11 rebounds
5 4th quarter points


Kobe's game 7

23 points on 24 shots
15 rebounds
10 4th quarter points

[Deuce Bigalow]

Why would kobe give a finals mvp to Pierce that he already had? :downspin:

If anything Pierce should have gave it to Ray Allen or KG.



He already has two championships as the 2nd best player on the Spurs. :lol His last two to be specific.

i know right, 2005 and 2007, Duncan was the 2nd best player

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe has never been the best player on the team throughout the playoffs or the regular season during a championship season.

If you don't trust me check the TS%.

Duncan has been the best player on his team during the playoffs and the regular season.(during championship seasons)

Kobe has never won a ring without a top 5 player on his team.

Duncan has won 4 rings without a top 10 player on his team.

Until these things change Kobe(2nd best player on his team) shouldn't be compared to Tim Duncan(best player on his team).


i guess Duncan is better than Magic and Kareem, is that what your telling me?
:lmao

Mr. mediocre 22/12 playoff run :lol

and Duncan was not the best player in 2005 and 2007

[midnightpulp]

One irrelevant game for the Lakers. They weren't even trying and they put 39 on your squad. Duncan went 3-14 against a team that wasn't even sweating it...thats gotta burn. :wow



He went out like that against Kobe in 08 (7-19? really Jim???). And lets not forget his 10-27 in game 7 against Detroit (11 rbs...kobe had more boards too? damn, timmy)...or his 4-15 in game 4 against shitty ass Cleveland and their decrepit frontline.

A 7-footer shooting that abysmally....thank god he had Manu, Horry, and Parker there to bail him out. :lol You don't see Hakeem, or Shaq throwing up bricks like that. Fuck, you don't even see Barkley doing that.

I'm saying though, Timmy is right at the rim? All he gotta do is reach up! All that height, for no reason. :lol



Jim was in his prime and the leader of the team. How do you let that happen...in your prime? As the leader?

I can understand tired old shitbag Jim last year getting his brakes beat off, and tired old shitbag Kobe taking it up the ass this year, but only one of them has been swept (with HC, and 39)....in his prime.

And this is supposed to be the greatest PF ever? Prime Dirk has some of the worst playoff collapses ever, but even he had enough pride to lead his team to one victory.

....

This nigga is at the rim. :lol

All those bad performances and Duncan still has the better playoff stats and more Finals MVPs than Kobe Bryant.

Must hurt to know that a player who's been swept with homecourt, went 10-27 in Game 7 of the Finals, and was bailed out time and time again is the more successful individual player than your boy.

You must feel like shit, homie.

[midnightpulp]

i guess Duncan is better than Magic and Kareem, is that what your telling me?
:lmao

Mr. mediocre 22/12 playoff run :lol

and Duncan was not the best player in 2005 and 2007

List for me all the players with 8 or more playoff appearances who have put up 23 and 12 on 50%, and we'll see if it is indeed mediocre.

Sorry again, dude, but 22.7, 12.4, 3.4 on 50% > 25.4, 5.0. 4.8 on 44%.

[Deuce Bigalow]

List for me all the players with 8 or more playoff appearances who have put up 23 and 12 on 50%, and we'll see if it is indeed mediocre.

Sorry again, dude, but 22.7, 12.4, 3.4 on 50% > 25.4, 5.0. 4.8 on 44%.

Kobe's first 2 years brought his average down
27.1/5/5 on 45% as a starter

Kobe's playoff runs during a championship, his best ones of 30/5/6, 29/7/6, 29/6/6 is better than Duncan's

[picc84]

All those bad performances and Duncan still has the better playoff stats and more Finals MVPs than Kobe Bryant.

Must hurt to know that a player who's been swept with homecourt, went 10-27 in Game 7 of the Finals, and was bailed out time and time again is the more successful individual player than your boy.

You must feel like shit, homie.

If you say so fam. What I know is, you start the thread popping off about 39 this, and fg% that....then when Duncans shit-stains come to light you want to start copping pleas. If you want to eat that cake you can't have the shit too.

And if you want to talk giving MVP's back, 3-14 should have gave his up in '02 when Kobe shut the door on his title dreams, for not the first and damn sure not the last time.

....

How you gonna be AT the rim and sabotaging your team? :lol

[midnightpulp]

Kobe's first 2 years brought his average down
27.1/5/5 on 45% as a starter

Kobe's playoff runs during a championship, his best ones of 30/5/6, 29/7/6, 29/6/6 is better than Duncan's

Wow. A whole 1.4 more points and .2 assists!

I can play that game too and say Duncan's last two years as a player past his prime brings down his overall average, But I don't make excuses.

And I already disproved your second point. Don't know why you keep restating it.

[LkrFan]

If he hadn't missed 75% of his shots he wouldn't have needed to grab 15 rebounds

Like all of those shots were his. That's funny though. :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wow. A whole 1.4 more points and .2 assists!

I can play that game too and say Duncan's last two years as a player past his prime brings down his overall average, But I don't make excuses.

And I already disproved your second point. Don't know why you keep restating it.

no you didnt

Duncan's championship runs
22/12/3
25/15/5
24/12/3
22/12/3

lol

3/4 of his title runs are mediocre

[midnightpulp]

If you say so fam. What I know is, you start the thread popping off about 39 this, and fg% that....then when Duncans shit-stains come to light you want to start copping pleas. If you want to eat that cake you can't have the shit too.

And if you want to talk giving MVP's back, 3-14 should have gave his up in '02 when Kobe shut the door on his title dreams, for not the first and damn sure not the last time.

What pleas? I totally acknowledged the fact that 3-14 in a game of that importance is shitty, and have further acknowledged all of Duncan's shitty performances. Try it sometime, it's something Kobe homers like yourself are fully incapable of doing without qualifying. "Waaahhh, b-b-but he 15 rebounds!" "Waaahhh, b-b-but he had no help and was playing with Smush and Kwame!"

And why would Duncan give his MVP back in '02 when he actually outplayed Kobe in that series?

See, here's a time where I can make a supporting cast excuse, but I won't, because I'm not a Kobe fan.

[Deuce Bigalow]

What pleas? I totally acknowledged the fact that 3-14 in a game of that importance is shitty, and have further acknowledged all of Duncan's shitty performances. Try it sometime, it's something Kobe homers like yourself are fully incapable of doing without qualifying. "Waaahhh, b-b-but he 15 rebounds!" "Waaahhh, b-b-but he had no help and was playing with Smush and Kwame!"

And why would Duncan give his MVP back in '02 when he actually outplayed Kobe in that series?

See, here's a time where I can make a supporting cast excuse, but I won't, because I'm not a Kobe fan.

*not in the 4th quarter

kobe outscored the Spurs team by himself and hit the gamewinner in game 4, and in game 3 he scored 11 points 5-5 shooting and got the win

[LkrFan]

And it would also suggest that Iverson is better than Kobe.

Lol PPG.

Bad comparison. Del Harris had Kobe in a seat belt his first 1.5 years in favor of HOF Eddie Jones (sarcasm). Meanwhile AI came in chucking it up since day one. But I'll take that comparison. Even though Kobe barely played his first two years, he still did his thang.

Drafted in the same year, here is where they rank all-time:

6.Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html) 27,868

17.Allen Iverson (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iversal01.html) 24,368

There is a 3,000 point gap between the two and they came in the same year with AI being their #1 scoring option from day one. :lol BTW, where is AI right now? Also, is AI going to the HOF? We know Kobe is 1st ballot. Next:downspin:

[LkrFan]

TS% shows Kobe hasn't been the best player on his team in the regular season or the playoffs in a championship year.

John Hollinger, is that you? :lol

[midnightpulp]

*not in the 4th quarter

kobe outscored the Spurs team by himself and hit the gamewinner in game 4, and in game 3 he scored 11 points 5-5 shooting and got the win

You mean game 4 where he shot an amazing 37 percent and scored 28 points on 27 shots? Yeah, let's ignore how shitty he played and focus on a game winner.

Great example, bro :tu

[LkrFan]

PER is worthless! But TS% isn't!!! :downspin::downspin:

Hey - that's MY schtick!! :(

[midnightpulp]

Bad comparison. Del Harris had Kobe in a seat belt his first 1.5 years in favor of HOF Eddie Jones (sarcasm). Meanwhile AI came in chucking it up since day one. But I'll take that comparison. Even though Kobe barely played his first two years, he still did his thang.

Drafted in the same year, here is where they rank all-time:

6.Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html) 27,868

17.Allen Iverson (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iversal01.html) 24,368

There is a 3,000 point gap between the two and they came in the same year with AI being their #1 scoring option from day one. :lol BTW, where is AI right now? Also, is AI going to the HOF? We know Kobe is 1st ballot. Next:downspin:

Airballing against Utah?

[Deuce Bigalow]

You mean game 4 where he shot an amazing 37 percent and scored 28 points on 27 shots? Yeah, let's ignore how shitty he played and focus on a game winner.

Great example, bro :tu

He outscored the Spurs team by himself in the 4th quarter, matching the Spurs whole 4th quarter point total in the final ~3:00 of the game

[LkrFan]

:lol

the best player in the 2000s with 5 championships and 3rd alltime in playoff points not top 10? :lol

...and 6th all time in points. He will pass Shaq sometime next year. :toast

[Deuce Bigalow]

there are 4 players in NBA History with 5 championships and multiple finals MVPs, can you name them?

someone can answer this?

[LkrFan]

Airballing against Utah?

Yep - as a 17 year old. :tu

[midnightpulp]

someone can answer this?

No one is answering your retarded question because, well, it's retarded.

I can cherry pick too.

How many players are there with at least 4 championships and 3 Finals MVPs?

*Hint, Kobe isn't one of them.

[Deuce Bigalow]

No one is answering your retarded question because, well, it's retarded.

I can cherry pick too.

How many players are there with at least 4 championships and 3 Finals MVPs?

*Hint, Kobe isn't one of them.

the problem is that Manu was the real deserving 05 Finals MVP

[midnightpulp]

the problem is that Manu was the real deserving 05 Finals MVP

Ahhh, how cute. Stamping your feet, wishing for things to be true when they aren't.

If Manu was the real Finals MVP, why weren't his stats better in that series? Also, get back to me when Manu is the primary defensive anchor for the Spurs.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Ahhh, how cute. Stamping your feet, wishing for things to be true when they aren't.

If Manu was the real Finals MVP, why weren't his stats better in that series? Also, get back to me when Manu is the primary defensive anchor for the Spurs.

2005 NBA Finals

Manu Ginobili - 18.7 ppg on 63.6 TS%, 5.9 rpg, 4.0 apg

Tim Duncan - 20.6 ppg on 47.1 TS%, 14.1 rpg, 2.1 apg

[midnightpulp]

2005 NBA Finals

Manu Ginobili - 18.7 ppg on 63.6 TS%, 5.9 rpg, 4.0 apg

Tim Duncan - 20.6 ppg on 47.1 TS%, 14.1 rpg, 2.1 apg

So Duncan averages 2 more points and 8 more rebounds and 2 less assists. And I believe he averaged 2.5 blocks more as well. And quit with the TS%, no one takes that shit seriously. Manu still shot better, but Duncan being far superior in rebounds, blocks, along with being the primary defensive presence, is more than enough to offset Manu's superior shooting.

Thanks for proving my point :tu

[picc84]

What pleas? I totally acknowledged the fact that 3-14 in a game of that importance is shitty, and have further acknowledged all of Duncan's shitty performances. Try it sometime, it's something Kobe homers like yourself are fully incapable of doing without qualifying. "Waaahhh, b-b-but he 15 rebounds!" "Waaahhh, b-b-but he had no help and was playing with Smush and Kwame!"

Can you quote me on those?

If not, why do I give a fuck what somebody else says. Can I just assume any time any spurfan poster here says something, he's speaking for you too?


And why would Duncan give his MVP back in '02 when he actually outplayed Kobe in that series?

:lmao

[Jodelo]

and chokes when the games on the line? lol, he is known as one of the clutchest players of alltime

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Leetonidas]

:lmao

Um Duncan's number's versus the Lakers in 2002 are pretty sick, a lot better than Kobe's, including 34 points and 24 rebounds in Game 5. :wow And beat him in the stat you guys love so much, PPG, 29 to 26.

[Giuseppe]

someone can answer this?

Yep-er-do, it was that last one, that 5th that sealed the deal. And you know what else?

Kobe knew it. Just as sure as the turnin' of the earth.

[Leetonidas]

someone can answer this?

I can do that too;

There's only one player in NBA history to win 4 titles and 3 Finals MVPs while winning multiple titles without a fellow All-NBA teammate. Can you name him?

Timmy's 4 > Kobe's 5*** easily.

[lefty]

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/psd-8-ball/images/default/8ball_0.jpg

[Giuseppe]

Timmy's 4 > Kobe's 5*** easily.

No.

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Leetonidas]

Giuseppe

[Gutter92]

lmao midnightpulp owning lakerfan in this thread


no big deal


Duncan's playoff/final stats > Kobe's

OMG GUYS KOBE AVERAGED 2 MORE PPG ON 10% WORSE SHOOTING, RACKED UP 8 LESS REBOUNDS BUT HE AVERAGED 2 MORE PPG OMG OMG

[Gutter92]

LOL 4 airballs vs the jazz...IN ONE HALF

[picc84]

Um Duncan's number's versus the Lakers in 2002 are pretty sick, a lot better than Kobe's, including 34 points and 24 rebounds in Game 5. :wow And beat him in the stat you guys love so much, PPG, 29 to 26.

Kobe had better series stats than Paul Pierce but that didn't stop your boy midnight from yanking the mvp out of his hands.

Everybody saw Kobe murder the Spurs in the 4th quarters while Tim repeatedly shrunk from the moment. :lol If Kobe gives his 08 back, Tim mails his 02 award straight to LA. Or neither does. Either way, stay consistent when you're trolling.

[lefty]

LOL 4 airballs vs the jazz...IN ONE HALF
That was pretty epic

And the Lakers had better shooters open


lol Kobe's shitty decision making
lol compared to Jordan
lol wearing number 8

[Gutter92]

has Duncan (even as a rookie, hell, as a college player?) ever had 2 airballs in 1 half? ever?

LMAO 4

[Giuseppe]

Duncan's playoff/final stats > Kobe's

OMG GUYS KOBE AVERAGED 2 MORE PPG ON 10% WORSE SHOOTING, RACKED UP 8 LESS REBOUNDS BUT HE AVERAGED 2 MORE PPG OMG OMG

It's that 1 less NBA Championship where your tired old shit bag Duncan ends up with the dirty end of the stick.

It happens.

[Leetonidas]

Kobe had better series stats than Paul Pierce but that didn't stop your boy midnight from yanking the mvp out of his hands.

Everybody saw Kobe murder the Spurs in the 4th quarters while Tim repeatedly shrunk from the moment. :lol If Kobe gives his 08 back, Tim mails his 02 award straight to LA. Or neither does. Either way, stay consistent when you're trolling.

You realize this thread is in the spirit of the Robinson should give his MVP to Hakeem thread right? I really don't care, I mean the MVP is a regular season award and imo Kobe should've gotten it in 2006 (CP3 was the MVP in 2008 tbh) but Pierce got the Finals MVP and that's really all that matters in the end, well the ring too. :toast

[lefty]

has Duncan (even as a rookie, hell, as a college player?) ever had 2 airballs in 1 half? ever?

LMAO 4
Duncan, in his 2nd season, led a team to a championship

In his 2nd season, Kobe was coming off the bench



Bryant :lmao

[picc84]

You realize this thread is in the spirit of the Robinson should give his MVP to Hakeem thread right? I really don't care, I mean the MVP is a regular season award and imo Kobe should've gotten it in 2006 (CP3 was the MVP in 2008 tbh) but Pierce got the Finals MVP and that's really all that matters in the end, well the ring too. :toast

When did I cosign the Hakeem/DRob thread?

Midnight created this one and he laid out his arguments....he (and his spur cohorts like yourself) should stay consistent within the confines of their own trolling, even if in response to it.

Either everybody keeps their awards, or they all give them back. Either everybody eats shit for 39, or nobody does. Thats all.

[Giuseppe]

Duncan, in his 2nd season, led a team to a championship

In his 2nd season, Kobe was coming off the bench



Bryant :lmao

That's why:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

is so sweet.

tee, hee.

[lefty]

That's why:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

is so sweet.

tee, hee.
Duncan 4

Kobe 0

[Giuseppe]

Duncan 4

Kobe 0

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[lefty]

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4
denial denial :hat

[LkrFan]

Duncan, in his 2nd season, led a team to a championship

In his 2nd season, Kobe was coming off the bench



Bryant :lmao

Kobe was 18 in his 2nd season. TD would not have even been drafted at that age. :toast

[lefty]

Kobe was 18 in his 2nd season. TD would not have even been drafted at that age. :toast
That's because he went to college

[LkrFan]

That's because he went to college

No, because he was not talented enough at that age. Let's say he comes out after his Freshmen year. Is he lottery pick? No.

Even though no other guard in NBA hx went straight to the pros, 17 year old Kobe went lotto. In retrospect Philly would have taken him #1 overall. There are 12 GMs that didn't pick Kobe that year that are still sick to their stomach. Philly is even worst because he used to practice with them at age 16. Yet they still took AI. How did that workout? :lol

Oh and Kobe would have gone to Duke had he gone to college. He would have had at least year to shit on TD in college, but he had to settle for doing it for over 14 years in the NBA - winning 5 rings during the Duncan era. :downspin:

[lefty]

No, because he was not talented enough at that age.
Actually, Kobe was too retarded to go to college

[LkrFan]

Actually, Kobe was too retarded to go to college

Link? I have knowledge that his SATs were good enough to get him in to Duke. :wakeup

[lefty]

Link? I have knowledge that his SATs were good enough to get him in to Duke. :wakeup
Yeah but it took him 50 attemps in order to get a good grade

[Nathan89]

No, because he was not talented enough at that age. Let's say he comes out after his Freshmen year. Is he lottery pick? No.

Even though no other guard in NBA hx went straight to the pros, 17 year old Kobe went lotto. In retrospect Philly would have taken him #1 overall. There are 12 GMs that didn't pick Kobe that year that are still sick to their stomach. Philly is even worst because he used to practice with them at age 16. Yet they still took AI. How did that workout? :lol

Oh and Kobe would have gone to Duke had he gone to college. He would have had at least year to shit on TD in college, but he had to settle for doing it for over 14 years in the NBA - winning 5 rings during the Duncan era. :downspin:

He wouldn't have won shit with those teams. There is no reason for them to have regrets.

Remember Kobe needs a top 5 talent to win.

[Nathan89]

:downspin:

[jacobdrj]

PP was the best wing in the game from 2001 until about 2008. He has done more with less (most of the time, that meant no surrounding NBA talent) than any other star, during that time period.

[LkrFan]

PP was the best wing in the game from 2001 until about 2008. He has done more with less (most of the time, that meant no surrounding NBA talent) than any other star, during that time period.

:lmao

[LkrFan]

:downspin:

I see u bruh. :downspin:

[ambchang]

No, because he was not talented enough at that age. Let's say he comes out after his Freshmen year. Is he lottery pick? No.

Even though no other guard in NBA hx went straight to the pros, 17 year old Kobe went lotto. In retrospect Philly would have taken him #1 overall. There are 12 GMs that didn't pick Kobe that year that are still sick to their stomach. Philly is even worst because he used to practice with them at age 16. Yet they still took AI. How did that workout? :lol

Oh and Kobe would have gone to Duke had he gone to college. He would have had at least year to shit on TD in college, but he had to settle for doing it for over 14 years in the NBA - winning 5 rings during the Duncan era. :downspin:

Duncan played Mourning when he was 16, and played to a draw (that would be 92) when Mourning was drafted #2 behind Shaq.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://hotmizzail.com/hoss/2p2/anim/facepalm01.gif @ these Spurs fans

Other than 03, Duncan's other 3 championship runs in the playoffs are mediocre
22/12/3, 23/12/3, 24/12/3 :lol

[Deuce Bigalow]

He wouldn't have won shit with those teams. There is no reason for them to have regrets.

Remember Kobe needs a top 5 talent to win.

2009
2010

Gasol was not top 10

[Nathan89]

2009
2010

Gasol was not top 10

According to a list of the top players in the game you game me he was in the top 5 both of those years.

To be exact he was- #1 in 2009 and #5 in 2010

TS% show this it is indisputable

[Nathan89]

Kobe has never been the best player on the team throughout the playoffs or the regular season during a championship season.

If you don't trust me check the TS%.

Duncan has been the best player on his team during the playoffs and the regular season.(during championship seasons)

Kobe has never won a ring without a top 5 player on his team.

Duncan has won 4 rings without a top 10 player on his team.

Until these things change Kobe(2nd best player on his team) shouldn't be compared to Tim Duncan(best player on his team).


i guess Duncan is better than Magic and Kareem, is that what your telling me?
:lmao

Mr. mediocre 22/12 playoff run :lol

and Duncan was not the best player in 2005 and 2007

Magic and Kareem have both led a team without a top 5 player on their team.
Kareem did it in 1980. Magic did it in 1988.

They also both led their team in TS% in the regular season or playoffs during a championship year.

Once again you can't compare Kobe(can't lead in TS% or win without a top 5 player) to Tim Duncan(who has done both). That is what I'm saying.

Kobe has yet to do what Kareem and Magic did.

[LkrFan]

Duncan played Mourning when he was 16, and played to a draw (that would be 92) when Mourning was drafted #2 behind Shaq.

And Kobe dropped 33 on MJ (the "GOAT") as a 19 year old. What's your point? My point is Kobe was busting professional basketball players' ass (aka 76ers) ever since he was 16. Not playing them to a draw.

Mourning. Is he top 50? He coattailed Shaq to his only ring. GTFO with that Mourning crap son. :downspin:

Duncan was not good enough to be a lotto pick fresh out of HS. Kobe wasPERIOD. :toast

[midnightpulp]

http://hotmizzail.com/hoss/2p2/anim/facepalm01.gif @ these Spurs fans

Other than 03, Duncan's other 3 championship runs in the playoffs are mediocre
22/12/3, 23/12/3, 24/12/3 :lol

And yet, those stats are superior to Kobe's. If Duncan's stats are "mediocre" then Kobe's are downright shitty.

I realize you're getting your troll on, but I can't think of any other player post-merger that averaged 20 and 12 on at least 50% shooting in a championship run other than Shaq and Kareem. On the other hand, if we consider 27, 5, and 5 on at least 45% shooting something of a gold standard line for perimeter players, then it's something that has been done far more times than 20 and 12 on 50%.

And it's why that quote of: "There's no diplomatic to say this, Tim Duncan's playoff performances essentially run circles around Kobe Bryant's" rings so true. :toast

I'll take 22/12/3/and 3 bpg on +50% from a big who is also your best defensive player over 28/6/6 on 45% shooting any day of the fuckin' week, especially in the playoffs where defense, specifically interior defense, wins championships and rebounds equal rings.

[midnightpulp]

And Kobe dropped 33 on MJ (the "GOAT") as a 19 year old. What's your point? My point is Kobe was busting professional basketball players' ass (aka 76ers) ever since he was 16. Not playing them to a draw.

Mourning. Is he top 50? He coattailed Shaq to his only ring. GTFO with that Mourning crap son. :downspin:

Duncan was not good enough to be a lotto pick fresh out of HS. Kobe wasPERIOD. :toast

I'm okay with that. Most likely gave Duncan a longer lifespan, without which, he probably wouldn't have better all-time stats and more Finals MVPs than Kobe.

It all worked out. Sure, Kobe's one up on the ring count, but we know three of those are Shaq's rings, anyhow.

[Giuseppe]

Sure, Kobe's one up on the ring count

Ipso facto:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[midnightpulp]

Kobe had better series stats than Paul Pierce but that didn't stop your boy midnight from yanking the mvp out of his hands.

Everybody saw Kobe murder the Spurs in the 4th quarters while Tim repeatedly shrunk from the moment. :lol If Kobe gives his 08 back, Tim mails his 02 award straight to LA. Or neither does. Either way, stay consistent when you're trolling.

Kobe having the better series stats is something of illusion because of the huge disparity in Game 3. It's like saying a player who happened to score 100 points in a game during a 4 game series, but was kept scoreless in all other games had the better stats than a player who averaged 20 points a game that scored 20 points in each game. Sure, the first player has the better average, but he didn't have the better series.

Despite his relatively poor shooting, Duncan had one of the better series of his career against the Lakers in '02. He locked down the paint and boarded like a madman. And lol at reducing everything to 4th quarters. Bottom line, Duncan had the better series, and there's no way you can spin that shit, despite Kobe playing good in a couple of 4th quarters.

And no, Duncan didn't shrink from anything.

[midnightpulp]

Ipso facto:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

I don't do rings in individual player comparisons.

So,

Duncan: 3

Rich Man's Latrell Spreewell: 2

[mavs>spurs]

Arguing with these idiots has become part of your OCD bro.

[midnightpulp]

Arguing with these idiots has become part of your OCD bro.

Sometimes I can't help myself.

They need to understand and accept the fact that Kobe Bryant is a snitchin' chucker who needs the best front line the league to actually have a decent shot at a championship.

[Giuseppe]

I don't do rings in individual player comparisons.

So,

Duncan: 3

Rich Man's Latrell Spreewell: 2

Well, on this Board we do.

Ipso facto:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[mavs>spurs]

Sometimes I can't help myself.

They need to understand and accept the fact that Kobe Bryant is a snitchin' chucker who needs the best front line the league to actually have a decent shot at a championship.

They don't need to understand anything, it's facts regardless of what 2 idiots think. This type of dumb shit is why this board sucks now and I barely ever read it anymore. I've found that it seriously dumbs me down when I post here.

[midnightpulp]

Well, on this Board we do.

Ipso facto:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

No, no we don't.

[midnightpulp]

They don't need to understand anything, it's facts regardless of what 2 idiots think. This type of dumb shit is why this board sucks now and I barely ever read it anymore. I've found that it seriously dumbs me down when I post here.

I feels ya.

[Giuseppe]

No, no we don't.

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

[Deuce Bigalow]

Magic and Kareem have both led a team without a top 5 player on their team.
Kareem did it in 1980. Magic did it in 1988.

They also both led their team in TS% in the regular season or playoffs during a championship year.

Once again you can't compare Kobe(can't lead in TS% or win without a top 5 player) to Tim Duncan(who has done both). That is what I'm saying.

Kobe has yet to do what Kareem and Magic did.

Duncan never led his team in TS%
and Kobe won 2 chips without a top 10 player

[Deuce Bigalow]

And yet, those stats are superior to Kobe's. If Duncan's stats are "mediocre" then Kobe's are downright shitty.

I realize you're getting your troll on, but I can't think of any other player post-merger that averaged 20 and 12 on at least 50% shooting in a championship run other than Shaq and Kareem. On the other hand, if we consider 27, 5, and 5 on at least 45% shooting something of a gold standard line for perimeter players, then it's something that has been done far more times than 20 and 12 on 50%.

And it's why that quote of: "There's no diplomatic to say this, Tim Duncan's playoff performances essentially run circles around Kobe Bryant's" rings so true. :toast

I'll take 22/12/3/and 3 bpg on +50% from a big who is also your best defensive player over 28/6/6 on 45% shooting any day of the fuckin' week, especially in the playoffs where defense, specifically interior defense, wins championships and rebounds equal rings.

give me 30/5/6, 29/7/6, 29/6/6 over 23/13/3 any day of the week

[midnightpulp]

give me 30/5/6, 29/7/6, 29/6/6 over 23/13/3 any day of the week

I wouldn't expect any less, because you're a fucktard.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I wouldn't expect any less, because you're a fucktard.

:blah

[Jodelo]

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

You are repeating yourself...

[Giuseppe]

You are repeating yourself...

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

merits repeating.

[Nathan89]

Duncan never led his team in TS%
and Kobe won 2 chips without a top 10 player

Yes, Duncan has.

Kobe hasn't won in rings without a top 5 player.

[lefty]

Kobe, Duncan, Pierce



Who gives a fuck, really


Jordan and Hakeem both shit on all of them

[Juggity]

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp221/The_Missourian/Flags/goalposts.gif
Deuce

[joshdaboss]

Anyone who's truly a student of the game knows this was Chris Paul's award.