Jasper, TX Death Row Inmate Drags State Along, Too!

[Fpoonsie]

No More Last Meals on Texas Death Row
Posted on September 22nd, 2011 1:18pm by Jason Heid

Apparently the large, uneaten meal* of the Death Row inmate convicted of that awful dragging death in Jasper in 1998 was the last straw.

State Sen. James Whitmire complained to the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, and a few hours later they agreed: no more specially ordered final meals. They can eat what all the prisoners eat.

The Texas Tribune report indicates there may be general agreement on the change:

Jim Harrington, director of the Texas Civil Rights Project, said he is opposed to the death penalty, but he agreed with Whitmire’s sentiment. “It is anomalous that you would do this for anybody in prison,” Harrington said. “To me, it sort of reflects sort of a guilty idea, some guilt that the person is going to be executed.”

link (http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2011/09/22/no-more-last-meals-on-texas-death-row/)

*the meal ordered?

The 44-year-old requested the following for his final meal, however, did not eat any of it, according to prison officials: two chicken fried steaks smothered in gravy with sliced onions; a triple meat bacon cheeseburger with fixings on the side; a cheese omelet with ground beef, tomatoes, onions, bell peppers and jalapenos; a large bowl of fried okra with ketchup; one pound of barbecue with half a loaf of white bread; three fajitas with fixings; a meat lovers pizza; three root beers; one pint of Blue Bell vanilla ice cream; and a slab of peanut butter fudge with crushed peanuts.

link (http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/article/Lawrence-Russell-Brewer-executed-in-1998-dragging-2182092.php)

[cantthinkofanything]

I would stuff myself until I die with Lobster, Shrimp, Oysters, and steak(no homo).

yeah...I bet you'd...oh wait, I see "(no homo)".

Nevermind.

[cantthinkofanything]

^ reminds me of the "man meat" scene...

x_aFtDUg4Ms

[Viva Las Espuelas]

And they got all that for one person????? smh

[vato loco]

that guy was mischievous till the end :lol

i don't see the big deal tho, it's a couple hundred dollars at most and executions aren't done on a regular basis so just let them have there last meal

[CubanSucks]

i don't see the big deal tho, it's a couple hundred dollars at most and executions aren't done on a regular basis so just let them have there last meal

why

[cantthinkofanything]

that guy was mischievous till the end :lol

i don't see the big deal tho, it's a couple hundred dollars at most and executions aren't done on a regular basis so just let them have there last meal

Fuck that. Why give these guys something to look forward to on their last day. I think they ought to strip them naked and strap their ass to the bars and parade the general population by the cell and give them each one minute to have at it.

[boutons_deux]

Executions cost about $1M, to say nothing of the 10 or 20 years ($20K+/month = $5M) the executed one has been kept in prison.

Just another TX bubba politician throwing red meat to his bubba constituents, "on principle".

[BlackSwordsMan]

Feed him a hot pocket the fuck is he gonna do about it

[cantthinkofanything]

Executions cost about $1M, to say nothing of the 10 or 20 years ($20K+/month = $5M) the executed one has been kept in prison.

Just another TX bubba politician throwing red meat to his bubba constituents, "on principle".

Society is built on principles you dumb motherfucker. He's on death row because of principles. It makes no sense to kill him but first give him his meal of choice. Take your ass back to the Political Forum where you can throw out your misplaced acronyms and catch phrases with impunity.

[bus driver]

Feed him a hot pocket the fuck is he gonna do about it

+1 :lmao

better yet, let him place an order for whatever he/she wants then show up with a hot pocket! who are they going to tell?

[vato loco]

it's barbaric to treat them like that

i'm not one of those hippies that are anti-death penalty but these death row inmates are going to pay for there crimes, the last meal isn't a reward since they're still going to be executed it's more about simply being humane to them.

[boutons_deux]

"Society is built on principles you dumb motherfucker"

USA is built on money, you dumb motherfucker. Only naive suckers think anything else matters.

[CubanSucks]

it's barbaric to treat them like that

i'm not one of those hippies that are anti-death penalty but these death row inmates are going to pay for there crimes, the last meal isn't a reward since they're still going to be executed it's more about simply being humane to them.

yep, cause the biggest thing on one's mind right before they're about to die is what they feel like eating. What a "humane" gesture

[CosmicCowboy]

Executions cost about $1M, to say nothing of the 10 or 20 years ($20K+/month = $5M) the executed one has been kept in prison.

Just another TX bubba politician throwing red meat to his bubba constituents, "on principle".

You are so full of shit. One Million?

Whatever the cost it's still cheaper than keeping him for life.

i say they ought to starve them the last couple of days. They always shit their pants when they die anyway and it's less to clean up.

[mavs>spurs]

You are so full of shit. One Million?

Whatever the cost it's still cheaper than keeping him for life.

i say they ought to starve them the last couple of days. They always shit their pants when they die anyway and it's less to clean up.

yeah take a basic criminal justice intro course and you'll learn that with appeals, court costs, and housing them for 20 years throughout the whole process before finally executing them it usually runs well over a million, i think sometimes several million but i forget the exact numbers. not to mention i think the drugs are expensive and add to the costs as well if i remember correctly. and no bubba, before you suggest it, we can't just shoot them all first thing because the constitution serves to protect peoples' right to a fair process and many people on death row or serving life sentences have later been proven innocent and freed.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You are so full of shit. One Million?

Whatever the cost it's still cheaper than keeping him for life.

:lmao no it isn't you stupid fuck. It really costs that much to execute someone, and life in prison really is cheaper. Do you have any actual knowledge on the topic or are you just regurgitating right wing bullshit that the death penalty is cheaper?

[benefactor]

I'd have Epic Meal Time make me something.

[Drachen]

You are so full of shit. One Million?

Whatever the cost it's still cheaper than keeping him for life.

i say they ought to starve them the last couple of days. They always shit their pants when they die anyway and it's less to clean up.

Yeah, study after study after study. Life imprisonment is cheaper than death row.

[redzero]

I'd have Epic Meal Time make me something.

\http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lprckxDY8r1qlcybno1_250.jpg

[Trainwreck2100]

You are so full of shit. One Million?

Whatever the cost it's still cheaper than keeping him for life.

i say they ought to starve them the last couple of days. They always shit their pants when they die anyway and it's less to clean up.

:lmao not knowing how much it costs to off a death row inmate

[Koolaid_Man]

it's barbaric to treat them like that

i'm not one of those hippies that are anti-death penalty but these death row inmates are going to pay for there crimes, the last meal isn't a reward since they're still going to be executed it's more about simply being humane to them.

let Kool play Warden....

I'd order them their last meal...

I'd also institute a last torture rite based on race.

For Whites I'd let a black man anally fuck a white lady straight in the ass and nut in her face live...right in front of his cell...while I'm eating the food he ordered...

For Blacks I'd have the KKK fully clothed in front of his cell screaming "White Power" while brandishing hangman nooses...

For Muslims I'd let a few pigs shit all over his cell...I'd also allow the pig in the execution chamber to witness the justice...


For Mexicans...I'd simply park a Lawn mower, weed eater, rake, and a Cerveza and fresh grass patches in front of his cell...

:toast

[Monostradamus]

let Kool play Warden....

I'd order them their last meal...

I'd also institute a last torture rite based on race.

For Whites I'd let a black man anally fuck a white lady straight in the ass and nut in her face live...right in front of his cell...while I'm eating the food he ordered...

For Blacks I'd have the KKK fully clothed in front of his cell screaming "White Power" while brandishing hangman nooses...

For Muslims I'd let a few pigs shit all over his cell...I'd also allow the pig in the execution chamber to witness the justice...


For Mexicans...I'd simply park a Lawn mower, weed eater, rake, and a Cerveza and fresh grass patches in front of his cell...

:toast

Muslims aren't a race you shitdick.

[Jimmy]

Jimmy hates cafeteria food.

[Koolaid_Man]

Muslims aren't a race you shitdick.

in my book they are :lol

[Ghost_of_Gashir]

in my book they are :lol

Tell em my nigga! Preach!

[ChuckD]

You are so full of shit. One Million?

Whatever the cost it's still cheaper than keeping him for life.

i say they ought to starve them the last couple of days. They always shit their pants when they die anyway and it's less to clean up.

Making shit up doesn't make it true.

Death penalty cost facts (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29552692/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/execute-or-not-question-cost/)

[vato loco]

yep, cause the biggest thing on one's mind right before they're about to die is what they feel like eating. What a "humane" gesture

that's y it's an option pendejo

if the inmate doesn't want the meal fine but if they choose to accept this last nice gesture why deny them it?wat's ur reason for denying them a simple meal if they're going to pay for there crimes and be executed regardless?

[vato loco]

let Kool play Warden....

I'd order them their last meal...

I'd also institute a last torture rite based on race.

For Whites I'd let a black man anally fuck a white lady straight in the ass and nut in her face live...right in front of his cell...while I'm eating the food he ordered...

For Blacks I'd have the KKK fully clothed in front of his cell screaming "White Power" while brandishing hangman nooses...

For Muslims I'd let a few pigs shit all over his cell...I'd also allow the pig in the execution chamber to witness the justice...


For Mexicans...I'd simply park a Lawn mower, weed eater, rake, and a Cerveza and fresh grass patches in front of his cell...

:toast

wat about chinks and other asians?

[CubanSucks]

that's y it's an option pendejo

if the inmate doesn't want the meal fine but if they choose to accept this last nice gesture why deny them it?wat's ur reason for denying them a simple meal if they're going to pay for there crimes and be executed regardless?

just cause their sentence is ending doesn't mean they should get anything special. Why a meal? Why not give them a night with a hooker of their choosing or give them an xbox with their game of choice? It's just a fucking meal. It doesn't make it any easier for them. And I guarantee you no human can enjoy a meal with the thought of their upcoming death in the back of their mind. It would take heroin to get that off their mind. I'm not saying it's bad that they have a last meal of their choice, but stop acting like they're taking away the last good experience of the prisoner's life

[CosmicCowboy]

Making shit up doesn't make it true.

Death penalty cost facts (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29552692/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/execute-or-not-question-cost/)

:lmao

Tell that to some of the anti-death penalty groups that supplied the "facts" for that article.

$90,000 MORE a year to house a death row inmate? :lol bullshit. You can't compare the cost to house an "average" inmate. They aren't going to throw stone cold killers into the general low security population even if they have life sentences.

So what if the appellate courts are bogged down with appeals...that doesn't raise the cost or justify the outrageous claims for millions more spent. Once the original trial is over the appeals are simply a battle of legal briefs that have to be read and ruled on by the judges. Most death penalty defenses are pro-bono or paid for by anti-death penalty organizations. That doesn't cost the state millions.

A new DNA test? big deal. THAT doesn't cost millions.

Where is all the extra cost?

[GoodOdor]

:lmao

Tell that to some of the anti-death penalty groups that supplied the "facts" for that article.

$90,000 MORE a year to house a death row inmate? :lol bullshit. You can't compare the cost to house an "average" inmate. They aren't going to throw stone cold killers into the general low security population even if they have life sentences.

So what if the appellate courts are bogged down with appeals...that doesn't raise the cost or justify the outrageous claims for millions more spent. Once the original trial is over the appeals are simply a battle of legal briefs that have to be read and ruled on by the judges. Most death penalty defenses are pro-bono or paid for by anti-death penalty organizations. That doesn't cost the state millions.

A new DNA test? big deal. THAT doesn't cost millions.

Where is all the extra cost?

You were talking out of your ass and got owned for it.

Just let it go bro.

Don't go the WC way of "the facts are wrong!!!11". Just let it go.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lmao CosmicCowboy acting like he knows more than the people who have done mountains of research about which costs more

[cantthinkofanything]

I just did some mental calculating and I agree that it's not that expensive to have someone on death row. My cost of living is well below $90,000 per year and that includes having a child, sending them to school, meals for three people, two car payments, etc. So there's no way it can cost more than $30,000 or so per year to house an inmate. The food is going to be cheap, the housing minimal. Some extra costs for the guards and everything but on a per prisoner level, it's inconsequential.
I think the numbers are inflated for budgetary reason.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao CosmicCowboy acting like he knows more than the people who have done mountains of research about which costs more

Use your head numbnuts.

What are the additional costs?

Please itemize.

[CosmicCowboy]

You were talking out of your ass and got owned for it.

Just let it go bro.

Don't go the WC way of "the facts are wrong!!!11". Just let it go.




Use your head numbnuts.

What are the additional costs?

Please itemize.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You were talking out of your ass and got owned for it.

Just let it go bro.

Don't go the WC way of "the facts are wrong!!!11". Just let it go.
:lmao

[cantthinkofanything]

Use your head numbnuts.

What are the additional costs?

Please itemize.

I agree. They are in one cell and aren't allowed much freedom. So there really isn't much cost at all to have them in there. Other than minimal cost for meals, clothing, and their prorated portion of the electricity, water, guards, etc.

Not calling them animals but it should be not too far out of line than the cost of keeping a pet.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao

When y'all are through jacking each other off try to answer the question.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Use your head numbnuts.

What are the additional costs?

Please itemize.
:lmao how much research have you done on this topic? I didn't know rednecks on a ranch knew more about the legal system than everyone else!

[GoodOdor]

KKKosmis/WC: "the facts are wrong!!!!!:(:(:(:(:("

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao how much research have you done on this topic? I didn't know rednecks on a ranch knew more about the legal system than everyone else!

I'm actually quite familiar with the system. Besides my personal research my son clerked for a 5th circuit Federal appeals court judge, was involved reviewing briefs and writing opinions in numerous death penalty appeals at the court level and as a pro bono attorney for the defendant after he went to work for a big firm in DC. I am very familiar with the process as we have had extensive conversations on the subject.

why don't you take a stab at answering the question numbnuts?

[GoodOdor]

the other research is wrong because I don't like it:(:(:(:( let me tell you this anecdote that shows I'm right!!!:(:(:(

[CosmicCowboy]

For guys that use the term "facts" you losers sure are slinging a lot of bullshit and ducking and dodging.

[Drachen]

If the article itself isn't enough, it seems to link to many different studies that it uses to support itself. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2011/09/22/death-and-taxes-the-real-cost-of-the-death-penalty/)

I hope Forbes is conservative enough for you to believe.

[bus driver]

according to this web site http://www.lao.ca.gov/laoapp/laomenus/sections/crim_justice/6_cj_inmatecost.aspx?catid=3

$47,102 a year for one inmate

[bus driver]

Florida is cheaper


12. How much does it cost to incarcerate an inmate for a year?

In Fiscal Year 2009-10, it cost $19,469 a year or $53.34 a day to feed, clothe, house, educate and provide medical services for an inmate at any state facility, and $15,498 to do so at a prison for adult males, which are the majority of individuals incarcerated in the Florida state prison system. For more inmate cost per day information, go to www.dc.state.fl.us/pub/annual/0910/budget.html.


http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/faq.html

[CosmicCowboy]

If the article itself isn't enough, it seems to link to many different studies that it uses to support itself. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2011/09/22/death-and-taxes-the-real-cost-of-the-death-penalty/)

I hope Forbes is conservative enough for you to believe.

Use you head


Citing Richard C. Dieter of the Death Penalty Information Center, Fox reported that studies have “uniformly and conservatively shown that a death-penalty trial costs $1 million more than one in which prosecutors seek life without parole.”

A Urban Institute study (downloads as a pdf) found that “[i]n Maryland death penalty cases cost 3 times more than non-death penalty cases, or $3 million for a single case” while a 2004 Report from Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury Office of Research that claimed “[i]n Tennessee, death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.”

Of course STATISTICALLY death penalty cases cost more, because they have to GO TO TRIAL.

Many of the life in prison convictions were PLEAD OUT, because the defendant didn't want to risk getting the needle. Take the threat of the death penalty away and they have no incentive to plea bargain and will go to court, thus COSTING MORE.

Again people. Use your heads.

[bus driver]

In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at
the highest security level for 40 years. (Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992).

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf

[Drachen]

Use you head



Of course STATISTICALLY death penalty cases cost more, because they have to GO TO TRIAL.

Many of the life in prison convictions were PLEAD OUT, because the defendant didn't want to risk getting the needle. Take the threat of the death penalty away and they have no incentive to plea bargain and will go to court, thus COSTING MORE.

Again people. Use your heads.

LOL, The quote that you used specifically use the word "TRIALS" "TRIALS" can you read your quotes?? TRIALS

[Drachen]

Use your head indeed.

[CosmicCowboy]

In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at
the highest security level for 40 years. (Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992).

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf

From the so called "Fact Sheet"


• In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at
the highest security level for 40 years. (Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992).

1992?

:lmao

Who said it? What was said in context? Was it an editorial or did it provide factual backup? Was it a quote from another of those anti-death penalty groups?

If it LOOKS like bullshit, SMELLS like bullshit, and TASTES like bullshit, it is probably bullshit.

[CosmicCowboy]

LOL, The quote that you used specifically use the word "TRIALS" "TRIALS" can you read your quotes?? TRIALS

It's still a trial even if they plead out, dumbass. It just happens in a day instead of a month.

[Drachen]

From the so called "Fact Sheet"



1992?

:lmao

Who said it? What was said in context? Was it an editorial or did it provide factual backup?

If it LOOKS like bullshit, SMELLS like bullshit, and TASTES like bullshit, it is probably bullshit.

LOL, he's been given all he has asked for and cant see past his confirmation bias.

Using the average long term inflation rate of 3.43%, then that 2.3 million figure would look like about 4.2M in todays dollars... better?

[Drachen]

It's still a trial even if they plead out, dumbass. It just happens in a day instead of a month.

No it is not, you specifically have to waive your right to a TRIAL if you plead out. Are you serious? That is why it is called a plea bargain and not a trial. This is elementary. Also, I would probably refrain from trying to make personal attacks on intelligence when you are clearly either inferior overall or just having an extremely bad day.

[CosmicCowboy]

LOL, he's been given all he has asked for and cant see past his confirmation bias.

Using the average long term inflation rate of 3.43%, then that 2.3 million figure would look like about 4.2M in todays dollars... better?

:lmao

talk about confirmation bias!

What is the context of the one sentence that was clipped out of the Dallas Morning News with no attempt to source the quote?

[Drachen]

:lmao

talk about confirmation bias!

What is the context of the one sentence that was clipped out of the Dallas Morning News with no attempt to source the quote?

No attempt to source the quote???



(Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992)

Do I need to make it bigger?

(Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992)

[resistanze]

:lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

No it is not, you specifically have to waive your right to a TRIAL if you plead out. Are you serious? That is why it is called a plea bargain and not a trial. This is elementary. Also, I would probably refrain from trying to make personal attacks on intelligence when you are clearly either inferior overall or just having an extremely bad day.

God you are an idiot. There is still a trial. There is still a defendant, defense attorney, prosecutor, and a judge. They read the charges. The judge acknowledges that the defense and the prosecution have agreed to a plea and the judge accepts the plea. The defendant then pleads guilty and the judge assesses the agreed upon sentence.

That is still a trial. It just takes an hour instead of a month.

[bus driver]

From the so called "Fact Sheet"



1992?

:lmao

Who said it? What was said in context? Was it an editorial or did it provide factual backup? Was it a quote from another of those anti-death penalty groups?

If it LOOKS like bullshit, SMELLS like bullshit, and TASTES like bullshit, it is probably bullshit.


i didnt call it a fact sheet, i was just putting it out there so numbers can be seen. as for your questions:

Who said it?Dallas Morning News
What was said in context? In the context of them doing research on the death penatly
Was it an editorial or did it provide factual backup?You read the fuckin article, i am not a teacher
Was it a quote from another of those anti-death penalty groups? The Dallas Morning News

[CosmicCowboy]

No attempt to source the quote???



(Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992)

Do I need to make it bigger?

(Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992)

Newspapers typically report the news, they don't make the news. I'm sure that they printed "Mr.X" from the "Y group" said that "executions cost blablablabla."

Like I said, your "fact sheet" clipped the sentence out of context and didn't source the quote.

Just because they report something someone said that doesn't automatically make tat statement true.

[Drachen]

Newspapers typically report the news, they don't make the news. I'm sure that they printed "Mr.X" from the "Y group" said that "executions cost blablablabla."

Like I said, your "fact sheet" clipped the sentence out of context and didn't source the quote.

Just because they report something someone said that doesn't automatically make tat statement true.

I think I remember you saying that you have been to college (I may be mistaken). When you wrote a paper and used a source (say a book for example) did you turn to the back of that book and find out the sources that they used and cite them too in your paper? For that matter, did you look up all of those sources turn to the back of those books/journals/articles/studies and cite everything that THEY used? No, you cite the place that YOU got the info from, anyone who would like to check your sources is free to do so.

Once again, I would probably stop trying to play the idiot card from such a position of weakness.

[CosmicCowboy]

I think I remember you saying that you have been to college (I may be mistaken). When you wrote a paper and used a source (say a book for example) did you turn to the back of that book and find out the sources that they used and cite them too in your paper? For that matter, did you look up all of those sources turn to the back of those books/journals/articles/studies and cite everything that THEY used? No, you cite the place that YOU got the info from, anyone who would like to check your sources is free to do so.

Once again, I would probably stop trying to play the idiot card from such a position of weakness.

:lmao

Lets make it simple since you clearly are confused. In this case your source (the link you posted) was the "Death Penalty Information Center"

It was not the Dallas Morning News.

If you had footnoted that your source was the Dallas Morning News you would have been wrong and would have rightfully been marked down by your Professor.

[Drachen]

:lmao

Lets make it simple since you clearly are confused. In this case your source (the link you posted) was the "Death Penalty Information Center"

It was not the Dallas Morning News.

If you had footnoted that your source was the Dallas Morning News you would have been wrong and would have rightfully been marked down by your Professor.


Lets make it simple since you are clearly confused. I didn't post this. I believe bus driver did. His source would have been the fact sheet. You stated that the fact sheet didn't source where that quote came from. They did, not only did they provide the periodical but also the exact issue.

[CosmicCowboy]

Lets make it simple since you are clearly confused. I didn't post this. I believe bus driver did. His source would have been the fact sheet. You stated that the fact sheet didn't source where that quote came from. They did, not only did they provide the periodical but also the exact issue.

The fact sheet listed where they saw the quote printed, not who said it. Very disingenuous and you clearly swallowed the hook.

[Drachen]

The fact sheet listed where they saw the quote printed, not who said it. Very disingenuous and you clearly swallowed the hook.

I take it back, maybe you didn't go to college, or if you did perhaps you didn't write a paper.

[Drachen]

I feel like I am arm wrestling a newborn.

Sure you win every time, but it's still unfulfilling because they don't understand.

[CosmicCowboy]

I take it back, maybe you didn't go to college, or if you did perhaps you didn't write a paper.

:lmao

Fucking Dumbass...

Example:

Lets say that my premise is that Barack Obama is a socialist.

Lets say that the New York times reported today that last night in the Republican debate that Ron Paul said that Barack Obama was a socialist.

In my 'Fact sheet" I list that on 9/23/2011 the New York Times printed that Barack Obama was a socialist.

See how this works?

[CosmicCowboy]

I feel like I am arm wrestling a newborn.

Sure you win every time, but it's still unfulfilling because they don't understand.

:lmao

You are too fucking stupid to even know when you are getting owned.

[bus driver]

Lets make it simple since you are clearly confused. I didn't post this. I believe bus driver did. His source would have been the fact sheet. You stated that the fact sheet didn't source where that quote came from. They did, not only did they provide the periodical but also the exact issue.

i did, but i figured he was trying to play jedi mind tricks

[CosmicCowboy]

i did, but i figured he was trying to play jedi mind tricks

Another short bus rider checks in.

[benefactor]

I feel like I am arm wrestling a newborn.

Sure you win every time, but it's still unfulfilling because they don't understand.
:lol

[bus driver]

Another short bus rider checks in.

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect

[Bill_Brasky]

Wow, CC is a fucking idiot.

[Pick of Destiny]

Wow, CC is a fucking idiot.

But the man can cook.

[CosmicCowboy]

Wow, CC is a fucking idiot.

considering the troll source, I'm far from crushed.

Any specific point you would like to refute dipshit?

[CuckingFunt]

considering the troll source, I'm far from crushed.

Any specific point you would like to refute dipshit?

I'm not sure why you're so convinced that the people on the other side of this argument are the ones who need to refute points or defend their argument. They've posted several published reports showing that it costs considerably more to try/convict/appeal/execute a death row case than it does to keep someone incarcerated for life. For years and years there have been studies done that consistently show this to be the case.

You're the one with your fingers in your ears screaming "la la la" because you don't like what the studies show. The burden of proof lies with you. The responsibility to refute specific points is yours. Go ahead and look for reputable studies confirming your suspicion that life imprisonment is the costlier option, if you really give a damn, and kindly share them with us. Until then your argument amounts to little more than a temper tantrum.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm not sure why you're so convinced that the people on the other side of this argument are the ones who need to refute points or defend their argument. They've posted several published reports showing that it costs considerably more to try/convict/appeal/execute a death row case than it does to keep someone incarcerated for life. For years and years there have been studies done that consistently show this to be the case.

You're the one with your fingers in your ears screaming "la la la" because you don't like what the studies show. The burden of proof lies with you. The responsibility to refute specific points is yours. Go ahead and look for reputable studies confirming your suspicion that life imprisonment is the costlier option, if you really give a damn, and kindly share them with us. Until then your argument amounts to little more than a temper tantrum.

#1 your studies all include the cost to keep them incarcerated until their execution as a "cost". That is bullshit and you know it. Your alternative is life in prison, so we would have incurred the cost of maximum security incarceration anyway, just for a lot more years.

It's zero sum when comparing the time spent before their execution.

So, lets define the additional expenses.

1) The cost of a lengthy capital trial instead of letting them plead guilty to get life in prison.

OK, I'll concede to you that a one month capital trial can be extremely expensive.

Now, take away the threat of the needle and how many of those murderers that take a plea to get life (saving the state the cost of a lengthy trial) now realize that they have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO LOSE by going to trial. Ultimately your trial cost would be much higher, not lower.

2) Appeal costs? OK...done by staff ADA's that are on salary. Judicial review of the appeal briefs? Judges and clerks are on salary. Wheres your extra cost?

3) The cost to execute them? Really?...totally insignificant compared to feed and house them for the rest of their lives.

If you can think of any other related costs please feel free to chime in.

Hey, if you oppose the death penalty that's fine. There are a lot of excellent arguments to be made against it and both sides have valid points.

My point is that distorting the economic numbers is not a valid argument.

[Drachen]

Who is that quote from or are you not even going to author to source?

[Drachen]

CF his response points to "no" he didn't read the studies

[CosmicCowboy]

Who is that quote from or are you not even going to author to source?

What quote?

[CuckingFunt]

#1 your studies all include the cost to keep them incarcerated until their execution as a "cost". That is bullshit and you know it. Your alternative is life in prison, so we would have incurred the cost of maximum security incarceration anyway, just for a lot more years.

It's zero sum when comparing the time spent before their execution.

So, lets define the additional expenses.

1) The cost of a lengthy capital trial instead of letting them plead guilty to get life in prison.

OK, I'll concede to you that a one month trial can be expensive.

Now, take away the threat of the needle and how many of those murderers that take a plea to get life (saving the state the cost of a lengthy trial) now realize that they have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO LOSE by going to trial. Ultimately your trial cost would be much higher, not lower.

2) Appeal costs? OK...done by staff ADA's that are on salary. Judicial review of the appeal briefs? Judges and clerks are on salary. Wheres your extra cost?

3) The cost to execute them? Really?...totally insignificant compared to feed and house them for the rest of their lives.

If you can think of any other related costs please feel free to chime in.

Hey, if you oppose the death penalty that's fine. There are a lot of excellent arguments to be made against it and both sides have valid points.

My point is that distorting the economic numbers is not a valid argument.

Okay.

And my point is that "those numbers look hinky to me" isn't much of an argument at all. Certainly not one that's going to stand up to the years worth of studies on the other side.

[CosmicCowboy]

Okay.

And my point is that "those numbers look hinky to me" isn't much of an argument at all. Certainly not one that's going to stand up to the years worth of studies on the other side.

I have just as much right to analytically question studies coming out of organizations like antideathpenalty.org, NCADP, .deathpenaltyinfo.org etc. as you would have if I posted some crap study from some right wing pro death nutjob blog.

I welcome you to refute ANY of the points I made about those hinky numbers.

[RichardLaymer]

CF, laying down the smack...the funkster...
CC, posting like he's on crack....
The CC....the richer....the cowster...getting phwned...

[CuckingFunt]

I have just as much right to analytically question studies coming out of organizations like antideathpenalty.org, NCADP, .deathpenaltyinfo.org etc. as you would have if I posted some crap study from some right wing pro death nutjob blog.

I welcome you to refute ANY of the points I made about those hinky numbers.

You haven't made any points, though. Not really.

The studies have shown that it costs more to execute a criminal than to incarcerate them for life, and one of your "points," verbatim, was:


3) The cost to execute them? Really?...totally insignificant compared to feed and house them for the rest of their lives.
That doesn't really give me, or anyone else, anything to refute. It's the rhetorical equivalent to "nuh uh."

Incidentally, if you were able to link me to a study from "some right wing pro death nutjob blog" that showed it was more expensive to hold a prisoner for life than to execute him, I'd gladly consider it critically and comment on its merit or lack thereof. My guess is you wouldn't be able to find those figures even if you looked. From a financial point of view, the deck has been pretty stacked against execution for decades, and as a result most organizations that support the death penalty (that I know of, and I don't claim complete/universal knowledge on the subject) tend to make their argument by obfuscating and/or distracting from those figures, rather than refuting them.

[CosmicCowboy]

The ONLY rational economic argument against the death penalty is the cost of the extended capital trial and the cost of appeals.

My point is, you take the carrot/stick bargaining position away from the DA's and you will have MORE lengthy trials, not fewer.

Lets say Blue gangbanger kills 2 Red gangbangers. They have eye witnesses, they have the gun, it's pretty much a slam dunk case.

However, it's really not a high profile case.

The ADA goes to the defense counsel and says...hey...we've got a winner here but the don't really want to waste a month on this case. We will take the Death Penalty off the table if your client goes ahead and pleads guilty we will give him life. He will be out in 35 years. If he goes to trial we are going for the needle.

That's a pretty persuasive argument and 9 times out of 10 they are gonna plea.

Now, take the death penalty off the table, same scenario.


The ADA goes to the defense counsel and says...hey...we've got a winner here but the don't really want to waste a month on this case. We will take the life off the table if your client goes ahead and pleads guilty we will knock 10 years off. He will be out in 30 years instead of the 35 years he would get if we find him guilty at trial.

going to extended trial is suddenly almost risk free. If you think our court systems are clogged now, just wait.

[CosmicCowboy]

You haven't made any points, though. Not really.

The studies have shown that it costs more to execute a criminal than to incarcerate them for life, and one of your "points," verbatim, was:


3) The cost to execute them? Really?...totally insignificant compared to feed and house them for the rest of their lives.
That doesn't really give me, or anyone else, anything to refute. It's the rhetorical equivalent to "nuh uh."

Incidentally, if you were able to link me to a study from "some right wing pro death nutjob blog" that showed it was more expensive to hold a prisoner for life than to execute him, I'd gladly consider it critically and comment on its merit or lack thereof. My guess is you wouldn't be able to find those figures even if you looked. From a financial point of view, the deck has been pretty stacked against execution for decades, and as a result most organizations that support the death penalty (that I know of, and I don't claim complete/universal knowledge on the subject) tend to make their argument by obfuscating and/or distracting from those figures, rather than refuting them.

Why won't you address any of the points I made? The ONLY additional expense is the cost of an extended trial and the appeals. Every single person involved in the process from the court reporter, to the ADA, the DA staff, the judges, etc. are ALL salaried and the cost of courtrooms etc. are already fixed.

Why don't you view the "studies" with as critical an eye as you view my post?

[CuckingFunt]

The ONLY rational economic argument against the death penalty is the cost of the extended capital trial and the cost of appeals.

My point is, you take the carrot/stick bargaining position away from the DA's and you will have MORE lengthy trials, not fewer.

Lets say Blue gangbanger kills 2 Red gangbangers. They have eye witnesses, they have the gun, it's pretty much a slam dunk case.

However, it's really not a high profile case.

The ADA goes to the defense counsel and says...hey...we've got a winner here but the don't really want to waste a month on this case. We will take the Death Penalty off the table if your client goes ahead and pleads guilty we will give him life. He will be out in 35 years. If he goes to trial we are going for the needle.

That's a pretty persuasive argument and 9 times out of 10 they are gonna plea.

Now, take the death penalty off the table, same scenario.


The ADA goes to the defense counsel and says...hey...we've got a winner here but the don't really want to waste a month on this case. We will take the life off the table if your client goes ahead and pleads guilty we will knock 10 years off. He will be out in 30 years instead of the 35 years he would get if we find him guilty at trial.

going to extended trial is suddenly almost risk free. If you think our court systems are clogged now, just wait.

Entirely speculative, of course. To the point of being as impossible to confirm as to refute.

Again, my point isn't that you're not entitled to your opinion here. Or that you're not entitled to question the (numerous) studies that exist on the subject. Or even that some of the questions you have may not actually be valid. My only point has ever been that you seem determined to have people take your argument seriously when in fact you haven't really said much of anything. You've said a lot of stuff might happen. And, sure, it might. But that's not really much to go on.

[CuckingFunt]

Why won't you address any of the points I made? The ONLY additional expense is the cost of an extended trial and the appeals. Every single person involved in the process from the court reporter, to the ADA, the DA staff, the judges, etc. are ALL salaried and the cost of courtrooms etc. are already fixed.

Why don't you view the "studies" with as critical an eye as you view my post?

I have viewed them critically. I just happen not to have the same problems with them that you seem to.

I've also looked critically at the fact that there don't seem to be any studies conducted anywhere with any bias that confirm your thoughts that life imprisonment would be more expensive than execution. You can't possibly be the first person to have asked these questions.

Ultimately, the financial implications barely even register in my list of reasons to oppose the death penalty. Human rights issues and the possibility of wrongful imprisonment take care of that for me all on their own. I've got absolutely nothing invested in being proven correct, or in those studies being infallible.

[CosmicCowboy]

Speculative???? LOL

Even dumbass gangbangers are smart enough to evaluate risk/reward in that scenario. Give em some credit for having finely tuned survival instincts.

But hey, you are right, it's speculative since we still have the death penalty and all the ant-death penalty folks will keep putting out their bullshit reports quoting each other and yelling down the opposition.

All the crap troll responses today was a good example.

Thanks for having a rational discussion even if we disagree. Thats OK.

Meanwhile, got places to go and things to do.

Have a great weekend. :)

[CosmicCowboy]

I have viewed them critically. I just happen not to have the same problems with them that you seem to.

I've also looked critically at the fact that there don't seem to be any studies conducted anywhere with any bias that confirm your thoughts that life imprisonment would be more expensive than execution. You can't possibly be the first person to have asked these questions.

Ultimately, the financial implications barely even register in my list of reasons to oppose the death penalty. Human rights issues and the possibility of wrongful imprisonment take care of that for me all on their own. I've got absolutely nothing invested in being proven correct, or in those studies being infallible.

Yeah, like I said previously there are plenty of good anti-death penalty arguments, I just don't consider "cost" to be one of them.

Have a great weekend.

[CuckingFunt]

Speculative???? LOL

(When you assume a particular result, that's kind of the definition of speculation. Just sayin'.)

[hehateme]

lets get back to the topic at hand...does the damn woman/man deserve that cheeseburger? Hell no..just like swords said give em a cold ass hard hot pocket, juice box and a fucking peace sign.

[Drachen]

Why won't you address any of the points I made? The ONLY additional expense is the cost of an extended trial and the appeals. Every single person involved in the process from the court reporter, to the ADA, the DA staff, the judges, etc. are ALL salaried and the cost of courtrooms etc. are already fixed.

Why don't you view the "studies" with as critical an eye as you view my post?

I will address the points you made.

Yes it does cost more to house a death row inmate than it does a lifer therefore that cost !=.

The only source of extra cost is not in added appeals process. There is a far greater up front cost.

You are welcome

[CosmicCowboy]

I will address the points you made.

Yes it does cost more to house a death row inmate than it does a lifer therefore that cost !=.


I call bullshit unless you can actually substantiate your claim.

Same number of days LWOP in Maximum Security Solitary = DR in Maximum Security Solitary.

The only source of extra cost is not in added appeals process. There is a far greater up front cost.

No shit Sherlock. I acknowledged that and fully addressed it.

Go google some more talking points dumbass.

[Drachen]

Actually, I have already posted a source for my claims (a conservative one at that) which, itself, has several sources. You are the one using personal conjecture along with a dash of anecdotal story telling to try and support your assertions. It shows too since you can't help but continually retreat to that refuge of the ignorant, name calling. I am not Manny, you cannot put me on tilt. I guess you may carry on with that strategy if it makes you feel better but I just felt inclined to let you know that you will get nowhere with it.

[DMC]

The problem is it's too expensive to kill someone. Make it cheaper. A .22 round to the base of the skull should do it. Do it right after the sentencing, plastic on the floor Goodfellas style.

It's not about saving money. It's about killing parasites and vermin.

Next time some of you find an infestation in your home, just round the critters up and put them in a cage, a tank, something, and feed them for the rest of their lives. Probably cheaper than an exterminator.

[Drachen]

actually, from what I read the drugs themselves (at least the ones texas uses) only cost about $83.

[DMC]

actually, from what I read the drugs themselves (at least the ones texas uses) only cost about $83.

The reason the process is so expensive is because people oppose it in the first place. How many appeals and years in a cell does a confessed killer need?

I would have served him his meal, but it would be on the tailgate of a truck he was being dragged behind. Catch up, fucker, and you can eat... whoops.. a culvert.