It's smarter to overpay for Beltre than Cliff Lee

[Monostradamus]

:lmao

[JamStone]

But at least Beltre was worth his contract this season and didn't dog it. He earned his paycheck.

Would have been better to sign both.

[Monostradamus]

He earned his paycheck.

For 120 games. So he earned 75% of what the Rangers paid him.

[stretch]

overpaying wasnt the issue :rolleyes

lee had a better offer in both New York and Texas than he got in Philly. he took less to go there.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yeah it's not like they chose Beltre over Lee. Lee loved Philly for whatever reason and took less money to go there.

[Monostradamus]

Yeah it's not like they chose Beltre over Lee. Lee loved Philly for whatever reason and took less money to go there.

only after texas lowballed him a few times and refused to offer him a 7th year. Then he called the Phillies and negotiated with them. At that point it was too late. He was committed to Philly and wouldn't hear any more offers. If Texas had blown him away with an offer right off the bat, he would have signed immediately.

[yavozerb]

only after texas lowballed him a few times and refused to offer him a 7th year. Then he called the Phillies and negotiated with them. At that point it was too late. He was committed to Philly and wouldn't hear any more offers. If Texas had blown him away with an offer right off the bat, he would have signed immediately.

Philly signed lee for 5 yrs and 120 mill.
Rangers offered 6 yrs at 138 mil.

I thought 6 yrs was too much to begin with and you wanted to give lee a 7th yr, you are truly dumber than I first thought...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Giving Lee a 7th year woulda been worth it for Texas given that they don't have a true ace on their staff.

Certainly a 7 year contract for Lee woulda been better than the contract they offered B:lolltre

[Jose Canseco]

I'd agree with that for the most part. The risk of Lee not being worth his salary in years 6 and 7 is offset by actually having him on the pitching staff for the next several years, with guys like Hamilton and Kinsler and Cruz in their primes. The team is set up to win right now. Cliff Lee on the Rangers for the next 4-5 years would be worth him eating up a 6th and 7th year of salary in his old age.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'd agree with that for the most part. The risk of Lee not being worth his salary in years 6 and 7 is offset by actually having him on the pitching staff for the next several years, with guys like Hamilton and Kinsler and Cruz in their primes. The team is set up to win right now. Cliff Lee on the Rangers for the next 4-5 years would be worth him eating up a 6th and 7th year of salary in his old age.
Jose Canseco, with the steroid goods, per usual.


With the exception of the NFL since there's a hard salary cap (so namely the NBA and MLB), a team that's set up to win right now shouldn't be fretting over offering an extra year to one of its best players. If you want to have that player for the next 3-5 years while you're a contender, you're gonna also have to give a 6th and 7th year which might suck but is necessary to give your team the best shot right now.

[yavozerb]

Beltre for 86 mil. over 5 yrs with an option for a 6th
Lee for 130+ mil over 6 yrs...

Lee did not want to pitch in the AL in my opinion..

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

There are only so many true aces out there, and you need 1 at the very least to win a world series (nearly all teams that have won it all recently have 2-3 aces tho). They coulda found production similar to Beltre's elsewhere, they're gonna need some luck if they ever want an ace who can fill Lee's shoes.

[ducks]

lee loss today 5 runs not so good

[yavozerb]

Lee is 0-3 with a 7+ ERA in his last 3 postseason starts, ouch......

[Jose Canseco]

Beltre 0-for-7 in these first two playoff games......

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

^:lmao:lmao:lmao

[yavozerb]

Beltre 0-for-7 in these first two playoff games......

:lol, How many of those games did the Rangers win? Phillies spotted Lee 4 runs and they still lost...Lee is getting paid almost 750K$ per start and will report back later this week :lol

[Jose Canseco]

It was nonetheless a silly post by you. You're going to go to three games that include 2 subpar outings by Lee. Go back to include the first 3 playoff games last year. And even with the two poor outings against St. Louis and San Fran, Lee has a 3.46 ERA and 0.89 WHIP and 56 K to 4 BB these two post seasons. And he's gone at least 6 innings in all but 1 of those 6 starts. Again that INCLUDES the two poor outings.

If you're going to be selective in your game sample, it works both ways for Beltre. How much money did the Rangers pay Beltre to go hitless in 2 playoff games?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Jose Canseco, BULLYING NIGGAS

[yavozerb]

It was nonetheless a silly post by you. You're going to go to three games that include 2 subpar outings by Lee. Go back to include the first 3 playoff games last year. And even with the two poor outings against St. Louis and San Fran, Lee has a 3.46 ERA and 0.89 WHIP and 56 K to 4 BB these two post seasons. And he's gone at least 6 innings in all but 1 of those 6 starts. Again that INCLUDES the two poor outings.

If you're going to be selective in your game sample, it works both ways for Beltre. How much money did the Rangers pay Beltre to go hitless in 2 playoff games?

:lol, at the 0-7 take...Beltre is a major reason why the Rangers are even in the postseason. Let me ask you this, take away Beltre from the Rangers and take away Lee from the Phils and in your HONEST opinion who would be missed more? Not sure if you have even seen any Ranger games this season but Beltre provides much more to his team than simply offense, its a fact..

[yavozerb]

^:lmao:lmao:lmao


Jose Canseco, BULLYING NIGGAS

Do you even have a take or do you just follow JC around slobbering on everything he says? just wondering

[Jose Canseco]

:lol, at the 0-7 take...Beltre is a major reason why the Rangers are even in the postseason. Let me ask you this, take away Beltre from the Rangers and take away Lee from the Phils and in your HONEST opinion who would be missed more? Not sure if you have even seen any Ranger games this season but Beltre provides much more to his team than simply offense, its a fact..

It does not surprise me at all that you didn't realize that the 0-for-7 post was directly mocking your use of Lee's last 3 playoff starts to suggest anything about Cliff Lee, while ignoring what he did the 3 games prior to the World Series last year.

I'll answer your question honestly, then you can answer mine. If you take Beltre off of the Rangers, they would have still been in the playoffs this season because the AL West was winnable with or without Beltre and Nelson Cruz became a monster, Napoli a revelation, Michael Young a renaissance, and Kinsler still put up a 30/30 season. Would it have been closer with the Angels? Sure, perhaps. I think the Rangers would still have won the division. And I'll say the same thing with Cliff Lee and the Phillies. Because of the rest of their pitching staff, the Phillies would have likely still been in the playoffs. Worley pitching the way he did really helped. But the Phillies wouldn't have ran away the division and the NL the way they did. I'm not at all saying Beltre wasn't important to the Rangers' success at all this year. But you trying to minimize Cliff Lee's importance to the Phillies success this year is even more ridiculous. That's my honest response.

Moreover, you do realize the Rangers' game 1 starter of the playoffs gave up 8 runs in game 1 right?

Now for my question. Do the Rangers make it to the World Series last season without Cliff Lee?

[yavozerb]

It does not surprise me at all that you didn't realize that the 0-for-7 post was directly mocking your use of Lee's last 3 playoff starts to suggest anything about Cliff Lee, while ignoring what he did the 3 games prior to the World Series last year.

I'll answer your question honestly, then you can answer mine. If you take Beltre off of the Rangers, they would have still been in the playoffs this season because the AL West was winnable with or without Beltre and Nelson Cruz became a monster, Napoli a revelation, Michael Young a renaissance, and Kinsler still put up a 30/30 season. Would it have been closer with the Angels? Sure, perhaps. I think the Rangers would still have won the division. And I'll say the same thing with Cliff Lee and the Phillies. Because of the rest of their pitching staff, the Phillies would have likely still been in the playoffs. Worley pitching the way he did really helped. But the Phillies wouldn't have ran away the division and the NL the way they did. I'm not at all saying Beltre wasn't important to the Rangers' success at all this year. But you trying to minimize Cliff Lee's importance to the Phillies success this year is even more ridiculous. That's my honest response.

Moreover, you do realize the Rangers' game 1 starter of the playoffs gave up 8 runs in game 1 right?

Now for my question. Do the Rangers make it to the World Series last season without Cliff Lee?

Of course Lee made the Rangers a better team last season and odds are they probably would not have made it without his help. My whole point of posting in this thread indicate that it was Lee who did want to Texas and not the other way around. I never wanted to see a 6+ year contract for a 34 year old arm who probably only has 2-3 more seasons at most of ace type numbers. Honestly, I could care less about beltre's 0-7 hitting since the team as a whole will pick each other on offense, but he is truly needed at 3b on defense more so. Now that I answered your questions answer mine, have you followed the Rangers at all this season?

[Jose Canseco]

No I do not follow the Rangers, but I'm fully aware of how good a fielder Beltre is, especially compared to the current version of Michael Young. He's been a great defender for a long time.

As for Lee and a 6 year contract, let's get the facts straight first. Lee was 32 years old at the end of last season. He would be 37 entering the 6th year of a contract starting this season. At any rate, it's obvious they wouldn't have been paying Lee to put up Cy Young caliber seasons in the 5th or 6th or even 7th year of a contract. They'd be paying him for the next 3-4 years to be dominant and then hopefully still pretty good at the tail end. And if you look at other quality lefty starters, for example guys like Andy Pettitte, Tom Glavine, and Kenny Rogers, that's more than a reasonable expectation. Especially if Lee could help the Rangers win a World Series and get them deep in the playoffs a handful of times, it would be worth it, even if he isn't worth his salary in the 6th season.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Do you even have a take or do you just follow JC around slobbering on everything he says? just wondering
I have nothing to add, he's taking you to the cleaners without my help

[yavozerb]

I have nothing to add, he's taking you to the cleaners without my help

:lmao, thanks for making my point...

[Veterinarian.]

:lmao

[Veterinarian.]

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[Mel_13]

Looks like it was smart to overpay Beltre.

[stretch]

lol

i will still say that overpaying for Lee would have been the smarter choice, as mono says

but getting Beltre isn't too far behind, definitely not as bad as mono is saying. however, that could change if he goes on to have several shit seasons after this. then again, that could have been the same if it was Lee. as long as the Rangers win a WS in here somewhere, I'd say its definitely worth it.

[yavozerb]

lol

i will still say that overpaying for Lee would have been the smarter choice, as mono says

but getting Beltre isn't too far behind, definitely not as bad as mono is saying. however, that could change if he goes on to have several shit seasons after this. then again, that could have been the same if it was Lee. as long as the Rangers win a WS in here somewhere, I'd say its definitely worth it.

Agreed..I could care less who got the big $, as long as the Rangers keep winning.:toast

[Axe Murderer]

crofl

wish my Adrian Beltre troll wasn't banned

[Monostradamus]

lol jizzing your pants over one game.

when the Rangers get curbstomped in the WS by Philly we'll see who was worth overpaying for.

[Veterinarian.]

Lol thinking rangers number one option was beltre and not lee

[yavozerb]

lol jizzing your pants over one game.

when the Rangers get curbstomped in the WS by Philly we'll see who was worth overpaying for.
Dont worry your day will come if the Rangers do not win a WS title, until then STFU cause you sound dumber and dumber with each comment..

Lol thinking rangers number one option was beltre and not lee

Just wondering where is was said that Beltre was the #1 option..

:

[Monostradamus]

Lol thinking rangers number one option was beltre and not lee

who thinks that? The Rangers obviously made a push for Lee before looking at Beltre. They just made a shitty, limp dicked push, lost Lee, then panicked and threw way too much money at Beltre.

[stretch]

the more and more I look at it, I would still definitely say it is an acceptable tradeoff.

basically instead of getting an aging ace in Lee, they got 2 great bats and 2 great defensive players in Beltre and Napoli, while paying what I believe is actually less for both than they would have for Lee. and if they had gotten Lee, its highly unlikely they get either one of them.

along with that, it gave the Rangers a chance to develop their younger pitchers such as Ogando, Harrison, and Holland, something that may not have been able to happen for all 3 guys if Lee stayed. Obviously its paid off, as Ogando has developed his alternate pitches, giving him versatility to both be a starter, or a lockdown bullpen guy. Harrison and Holland both are looking like guys with great potential to possibly even be ace material, which is going to come in handy, because I'm wondering exactly how much CJ is going to demand in order to stay, and if its going to be worth keeping him, as opposed to replacing him with some younger guys who are actually more talented pitchers than him.

[yavozerb]

the more and more I look at it, I would still definitely say it is an acceptable tradeoff.

basically instead of getting an aging ace in Lee, they got 2 great bats and 2 great defensive players in Beltre and Napoli, while paying what I believe is actually less for both than they would have for Lee. and if they had gotten Lee, its highly unlikely they get either one of them.

along with that, it gave the Rangers a chance to develop their younger pitchers such as Ogando, Harrison, and Holland, something that may not have been able to happen for all 3 guys if Lee stayed. Obviously its paid off, as Ogando has developed his alternate pitches, giving him versatility to both be a starter, or a lockdown bullpen guy. Harrison and Holland both are looking like guys with great potential to possibly even be ace material, which is going to come in handy, because I'm wondering exactly how much CJ is going to demand in order to stay, and if its going to be worth keeping him, as opposed to replacing him with some younger guys who are actually more talented pitchers than him.

I cannot see the Rangers bringing back CJ with the lack of sp's in the market this coming offseason. In my opinion Feliz will be made a SP and will join a young staff of Holland, Harrison, Ogando, and Lewis. I also believe the Rangers will make a big splash with a 1b signing of either Puljos or Fielder since Young's contract comes off the backs after next season.

[Spursfan092120]

Jeez....this thread needs to die. Lee took less money to go to Philly...he wanted nothing to do with the AL...he wanted to go back to the Phillies. It had nothing to do with money...overpaying wouldn't have mattered...we took what we could get, and he just hit 3 HRs in a clinching playoff game. I'll take it.

[Axe Murderer]

Jeez....this thread needs to die. Lee took less money to go to Philly...he wanted nothing to do with the AL...he wanted to go back to the Phillies. It had nothing to do with money...overpaying wouldn't have mattered...we took what we could get, and he just hit 3 HRs in a clinching playoff game. I'll take it.

Seriously, these two deals had no effect on each other. It's stupid that this has become a "either Beltre or Lee" argument

[Monostradamus]

Seriously, these two deals had no effect on each other. It's stupid that this has become a "either Beltre or Lee" argument

So you're saying if the Rangers offered a 7th year and got Cliff Lee, they'd also have gotten Beltre?

[stretch]

So you're saying if the Rangers offered a 7th year and got Cliff Lee, they'd also have gotten Beltre?

I know they pursued both at the same time, but I don't think they would have gotten both. At least at the contract terms that were neccesary to get each of them.

[Axe Murderer]

i still don't believe Lee would've signed with Texas even if offered a 7th year deal. He turned down a contender (Texas) who offered more money and years than another contender (Philly). Not to mention he turned down the Yanks, who actually did offer the 7 year deal he was looking for in Texas. Just sounds to me like he wanted to be in Philly no matter what.

If given the choice of Beltre, with his deal, or Lee with the 7 year deal, I'd agree to take Lee any day of the week. I just think Lee's a lying faggot who led the team on the whole time

[Monostradamus]

How do you know he wouldn't have taken 7 years with Texas? It was never offered, which is my big problem.

As far as Philly goes, Lee didn't even go to them asking for their best offer until after Texas refused to offer a 7th year. I don't think he ever wanted to go to New York, but I think he seriously would have considered Texas if a 7th year was on the table. He wasn't in love with the idea of playing in Texas, but the security of a 7 year deal appeared to be enough to keep him in town. Texas knew they had to offer 7 years, and refused, and that's when Lee decided he'd be happier in Philly with less money.

[yavozerb]

Time to move on Mono..The Rangers are playing just as good if not better than last season when Lee was on the staff and the phillies are doing what teams who pay 170+ mil for a roster should do and that is have a chance to win a WS..

[Axe Murderer]

How do you know he wouldn't have taken 7 years with Texas? It was never offered, which is my big problem.


My whole point was that it wouldn't have mattered IMO. Lee was just talking out his ass.

Either way we both agree that overpaying for Lee is better than overpaying for Beltre which is all that matters

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I agree with mono that offering Lee a 7th year woulda been the smart thing to do but it's hard to say what he woulda done. He wanted to be in Philly (he was in tears when Philly traded him for Halladay) and IMO would have reached out to them regardless.

[stretch]

I agree with mono that offering Lee a 7th year woulda been the smart thing to do but it's hard to say what he woulda done. He wanted to be in Philly (he was in tears when Philly traded him for Halladay) and IMO would have reached out to them regardless.

I remember even listening to the radio, and there had been rumors from the get go that a 3rd team was in the mix making offers as well, but no one knew exactly who it was, just that it was a team Lee REALLY liked and wanted to be a part of. Philly was in the mix the entire time, they just went about it very quietly. He knew the entire time that he was going to sign with Philly. He was just using NY and Texas to milk out as big of a contract as he could with Philly.

[Fabbs]

Lee went 10-1 down the stretch this year and the one loss was 3-0. He only gave up 2 earned in 6 innings that game. That kind of run is Jered Weaver-like.

The 5-4 playoff game he lost to St L, after his 4th inning crack up i would have pulled him at the very 1st sign of trouble in the 5th. Like the double he gave up. Gone. Charlie Manuel is a proven dumb ass who choked away the 2009 World Series to the Skunkies and has blown plenty of other playoff games.

The 7 year contract given to Lee? Yeah that's whacked.

[Bill_Brasky]

Rangers never had a shot at landing Lee. Their offer was better than the Phillies and he was just a little faggot who wanted to be in the NL.

[Veterinarian.]

Oh

[Spursfan092120]

:lol Cliff Lee sitting at home
:lol homerun off the knees
:lol 1 more game

[Monostradamus]

:lmao Rangers fans who only started posting in this forum a year ago.

Who was starting season threads back when the Rangers sucked ass? Oh yeah, me.

[yavozerb]

:lmao Rangers fans who only started posting in this forum a year ago.

Who was starting season threads back when the Rangers sucked ass? Oh yeah, me.

You are also the the same dip shit who said Baltre was a bad signing and Ranger fans would regret him being on the team...I think you need to change your name again so people wont realize what a big dumb ass you are..:toast

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol bandwagon fan