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lefty
10-01-2011, 05:45 PM
Don't get excited, Kool and Luva

MJ still shits on Kobe :lmao



Good read


Hot Air

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The Case Against Michael Jordan
By Michael Crowley

JANUARY 25, 1999: In an America so saturated with cynicism, so devoid of idealism, so lacking in real heroes, the mythology and propaganda surrounding the retirement of Michael Jordan from basketball last week was an awesome thing to behold.

Jordan's exit was more than a sports story. It was a news moment infused with broader cultural meaning. CNN carried his press conference live. His shining bald crown graced the front page of the New York Times and virtually every other major American newspaper. Perhaps only the Starr Report has led to as many special-insert newspaper sections. When a White House event overlapped with Jordan's press conference, even Bill Clinton noted that "most of the cameras are somewhere else."

Michael Jordan has, of course, become much more than just a basketball player. He is an icon, the representation of a national ideal. He may be the only true American hero -- indeed, as perhaps the most famous man alive, he may be the only true global hero. (In a recent survey of Chinese students, for example, Jordan tied with Zhou Enlai as "the world's greatest man.") We presume him to be an object of worship and emulation. The old Gatorade slogan "Be Like Mike" may be out of circulation, but the message remains. Given this degree of benign celebrity -- fueled not only by Jordan's mind-bending skill and six NBA championships but also by the global ubiquity that comes from endorsing the monolithic likes of Coke, McDonald's, and Nike (not to mention from Space Jam, his $450 million-grossing movie) -- it was no stretch for the New York Times to venture that Jordan is "arguably the most significant athlete of this century."

So what, exactly, does Jordan's sound and fury truly signify? And is it as wonderful as everyone has concluded? To me, the answers are: not much, and no. That's why, if I am not quite glad to see him go, I'm not particularly sad, either. Jordan's supernatural basketball talents are, of course, unassailable -- even if the debate over whether he is The Best Ever has been settled prematurely. He has given me a thousand moments of aesthetic awe. He made my favorite sport exponentially more popular. He has earned his success through honest hard work. And yet I have always had my reservations about Michael Jordan -- Jordan the Chicago Bull, Jordan the man, Jordan the multinational corporation.

None of these Jordans has ever stood for much worth celebrating beyond pure personal achievement. On the court, Jordan was hardly a paragon of sportsmanship. He could be dirty, petulant, and selfish. Yet the league cast him in a cartoonish superhero role that tarnished the integrity of the game. As a person, despite his cosmic stardom, Jordan is a dull Everyman. There has always been a coldness to his manner and a blandness to his words. His pathological competitive drive was at times unnerving. And despite his mighty influence, Jordan remained egocentric, uninterested in changing the world that lay at his feet. Either he felt no higher obligations, or he simply didn't want to risk his lucrative endorsement contracts. This, finally, is the most important, and most regrettable, meaning of Michael Jordan. He represents the worst of America today: rampant individualism, profit without conscience, and a numbing culture of sanitized corporate homogeneity.

When considering Michael Jordan, it's impossible not to reflect on the only other athlete to have achieved this degree of stardom and influence: Muhammad Ali. To compare the two is to realize how plain Jordan's persona is, and how different the 1990s are from the 1960s.

In his 1960s prime, Ali was more than a physical specimen, a success story, a winner. He was a personality. His legacy endures because the world was as compelled by his spirit as by his fists. Ali was an imaginative, freewheeling comedian -- a rapper before there was rap. He was eminently unpredictable, wonderfully chaotic, utterly unrestrained. The contrast is even more striking when one remembers that Ali was as much a political phenomenon as an athletic one. He was a converted Muslim -- hence the change from his given name, Cassius Clay -- who spoke out against racism in America. When drafted, he refused to go to Vietnam with an explanation of famously pithy simplicity: "I ain't got no quarrel with them Vietcong."

Obviously, many of the values Ali represented were products of the unhinged decade in which he rose to fame: his expressive personality, his racial and religious consciousness, his politics. "The Beatles' blend of R&B and Liverpool pop, and Clay's blend of defiance and humor," writes David Remnick in his 1998 Ali biography, King of the World (Random House), "was changing the sound of the times, its temper; set alongside the march on Washington and the quagmire in Vietnam, they would, in their way, become essential pieces of the sixties phantasmagoria."

If Ali's persona dramatically overshadows Jordan's, perhaps that's what we should expect. Maybe Michael Jordan reflects our times no less than Ali reflected his own. Just as Ali was a vessel for the social chaos and spiritual liberation of his day, so Jordan symbolizes the political apathy and cultural shallowness of ours. Ali was a 1960s archetype in that he was a passionate and incendiary rebel. Michael Jordan is a 1990s archetype in that he is a value-neutral brand name.

In thinking about what kind of basketball player Michael Jordan was, it's useful to begin at the end. Slow-motion replays of the last shot of Jordan's career, the buzzer-beating, championship-winning swish against the Utah Jazz in the NBA finals last spring, were unavoidable on television last week. To the Jordan-worshipping world, that shot represents all that is good and great about the man: here is the noble competitor in the clutch, rising to victory as his faked-out defender slips haplessly to the floor. Writing in the New Yorker this week, Remnick called it "a move so exquisite that even his defender stumbled in mystification."

But a closer look reveals that something a bit less majestic had taken place: Jordan got away with a foul. Driving to the basket to set up his jump shot, Jordan gave a subtle shove to the Utah defender, Byron Russell, with his free hand. It was Jordan's push-off, not a lightning-fast move, that caused Russell to slip and left Jordan with an open shot.

That push-off became a signature of Jordan's later years, when his speed and leap had waned a bit, when he needed a little extra help to get a clear look. It is a patently illegal tactic. But Jordan, whose star power was so valuable to the NBA, clearly received special treatment from the referees. They turned a blind eye to his cunningly discreet infractions even as they whistled his opponents for any hint of a foul.

Just as there are dual interpretations of Jordan's last shot, there are dual interpretations of his NBA career. To some, he was the consummate competitor and sportsman. To me, he symbolized a corrupting star system in the NBA that blurs the line between sports and entertainment, gives special treatment to a few superstars, and replaces the thrill of uncertainty with a predictable script.

Though he plays aggressively, in his 13 years in the league Jordan fouled out of just 10 games -- and none since 1992. "The way the game is officiated is basically a caste system," Jordan's longtime teammate Steve Kerr told New Jersey's Bergen Record in 1995. "If this were India, guys like Michael and Alonzo [Mourning] would be members of the Gandhi family and guys like me would be peasants. That's the way the NBA works. Michael and Alonzo get calls. Me and [journeyman center] Joe Wolf don't."

The result was that Jordan's natural advantages were artificially supplemented. I don't doubt that, without the help of referees, Jordan would still have dominated basketball. But his star treatment always seemed to taint the game's legitimacy, not to mention the way it lent a certain tedious inevitability to his title drives.

Jordan may be gone, but his legacy will endure in some unfortunate ways. Maybe neither he nor the league intended it, but the Jordanization of the NBA -- which, to be fair, began years ago with stars like Larry Bird and Magic Johnson -- has inflated the value of the individual at the expense of the time-honored team ideal.

"In tennis or golf or boxing, the mystique is the individual," Jordan's agent, Michael Falk, told the New Yorker last summer, "whereas, no matter how great Bill Russell or Bob Cousy was, it was the Celtics dynasty -- it was always institutional. Michael changed all that." It may have been wonderful for a time. But now Jordan is gone, and the NBA is filled with undisciplined young showoffs -- the Allan Iversons, the Kevin Garnetts, the Antoine Walkers -- trying in vain to succeed him. "I think the league saw my example," Jordan writes in his recent coffee-table autobiography, For the Love of the Game (Crown), "and thought it could slide other players into the slot I created." It's hard to believe the game won't be impoverished as a result.

One of the most radical Jordan critics I know argues that the cult of MJ has done nothing less than place pro basketball "somewhere between college basketball and pro wrestling. They have good-guy teams and bad-guy teams, good-guy players and bad-guy players. Even on other teams' courts, Jordan's the good guy. People cheer him."

Not me. I never understood how New York fans (like myself, I must disclose) could applaud the man who stifled so many Knicks title drives. I remember one 1996 game between the Knicks and Jordan's Chicago Bulls at Madison Square Garden in Manhattan. It was a vital game for New York, but the Garden swarmed with fans who'd paid to see Michael. One of them was sitting in my row -- a young boy, perhaps 11, wearing a replica Jordan jersey. As Chicago took an early lead, the boy gleefully cheered Jordan's every basket and obnoxiously taunted his Knick defenders. But the tide quickly turned, and New York rampaged to a blowout win. By the time Jordan skulked to the bench, after a mediocre performance, tears were streaming down the disconsolate boy's cheeks. They were the tears of a child at a loss to understand something that's not supposed to happen. It had probably never occurred to him that the good-guy wrestler can get stomped and hurled out of the ring.

Jordan's exit from basketball last week didn't prompt balanced journalism so much as hagiography. The Boston Globe compared him to William Shakespeare. And the author David Halberstam, after following the Bulls for several months, has concluded that Jordan "is the most charismatic player ever in his sport."

But Halberstam, like so many other worshipful writers, has lost perspective. Charles Barkley, Magic Johnson, Jason Williams -- heck, even Dennis Rodman -- all were more colorful, more engaging, and more imaginative than Jordan. Indeed, all the lyrical praise has only underscored what a bore Jordan is. For someone who had reached a pinnacle in his life experience, he always seemed a little vacant. Jordan never showed any real sense of humor or imagination. He spoke in clichés and hollow jock jargon. He didn't even have especially deep insights about the game itself. At his brief farewell press conference last week, Jordan was typically banal, using some variation of the word challenge 20 times.

Jordan is worse than just boring, though. While his public-relations machine has built up an all-American image of a kind and easygoing guy who loves golf and his kids and pursued the American dream, that façade is a partial truth at best. A more accurate description would consider that Jordan has a titanic ego, that he is capable of real meanness, that he is almost pathologically obsessed with competition and winning. His fanatical will to succeed is not so much charming as disturbing.

Needless to say, Michael Jordan could have been a worse role model. He never got in fights, didn't invent any stupid victory jigs, never tried to strangle his coach. He has a stable family life (even if his love story has been idealized: in fact, Jordan married at a cheapo Las Vegas chapel 10 months after his first child was born, and after his wife-to-be was preparing to slap him with a paternity suit).

But he certainly hasn't always been the cartoon superhero marketed to us by his corporate patrons and the NBA. Jordan's dark side was most famously memorialized in Sam Smith's 1992 book The Jordan Rules: The Inside Story of a Turbulent Season with Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls (Pocket Books), which depicted him as selfish, arrogant, obsessed with statistics, and disparaging to his teammates. That image was reinforced as recently as last spring, when, late in game one of the 1998 NBA Finals, Jordan shouted at Bulls forward Scottie Pippen for not passing him the ball -- after Pippen had made a game-tying three-pointer.

Despite his humble Everyman image, Jordan can't suppress his ego. He refers to himself in the third person. He is known for talking arrogant trash on the court. He once called his teammates "my supporting cast." He even skipped an honorary team appearance at the White House in 1991 without giving an explanation. (He is vain, too: even his famous shaved-head look was a convenient response to premature baldness.)

And despite his gracious veneer, His Airness is also famously thin-skinned. Any slight or criticism is cause for massive retaliation, as Sports Illustrated learned after it published an article in 1993 calling on him to abandon his ill-fated stint as a baseball player. For years, Jordan refused to talk to the magazine; SI editors are apparently convinced that a still-resentful Jordan intentionally leaked word of his retirement last week just after the magazine had gone to press.

"If you challenge him," Toronto Raptors coach and former player Darrell Walker told the Toronto Star last year, "he can be a very vindictive person." There's even some evidence that Jordan has cowed the media into submission. When a California woman filed a paternity suit against him last summer, for instance, only two print-media outlets -- Time magazine and the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel -- ran the story.

On the court, too, sometimes Jordan's competitive drive seemed alarmingly excessive. As his former coach Doug Collins once said, "He wants to cut your heart out and then show it to you." His teammate Luc Longley described Jordan to Halberstam with one word: predator. That insatiable need to win explains the one real blotch on Jordan's squeaky-clean reputation: a taste for high-stakes gambling. In 1992, Jordan admitted to paying $165,000 in poker and golf debts to a pair of unsavory characters, one of whom was later murdered. The following year, Jordan was seen lingering late at an Atlantic City casino the night before a major playoff game. And a former golfing partner wrote a book claiming that Michael had lost $1.25 million on the links in 10 days. (A penitent Jordan admitted betting with the man but said the figures had been exaggerated.) Rumors still linger that Jordan's debts were a factor in his startling first "retirement" in 1993 -- some suggest that the league insisted he lay low for a while.
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Koolaid_Man
10-01-2011, 05:51 PM
I've already staked out my position...He didn't face a prime Kobe...that's the only case against him...

ju_rG3DtBnM

lefty
10-01-2011, 05:56 PM
Kool


I was expecting you

Koolaid_Man
10-01-2011, 06:05 PM
Kool


I was expecting you


that's what your mom said...

LkrFan
10-01-2011, 06:08 PM
that's what your mom said...

Zing! :lol

lefty
10-01-2011, 06:09 PM
that's what your mom said...
sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo funny :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

lefty
10-01-2011, 06:10 PM
Zing! :lol
I was a great comeback, wasn't it

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Booharv
10-01-2011, 06:31 PM
Wow, he doesn't have a great personality.

Dets a sick burn if ever I saw one.

Juggity
10-01-2011, 06:33 PM
Article writer seems a little butthurt

Stalin
10-01-2011, 06:42 PM
yes, sounds like a butthurt knick fan

lefty
10-01-2011, 06:43 PM
Article writer seems a little butthurt
Yeah he is a bit overzealous in some parts of the article

But Jordan was an asshole (still is)

BlackSwordsMan
10-01-2011, 07:18 PM
im not reading all that shit

Koolaid_Man
10-01-2011, 07:57 PM
im not reading all that shit


would you eat it...:lol

joshdaboss
10-01-2011, 11:53 PM
To me, this is a whole nother level of bitterness. Like Jordan fucked his wife or something.

Killakobe81
10-02-2011, 12:32 AM
Jordan is arguably the GOAT ...but definitely the best two way player I have ever seen when motivated defensively.
But most of the shit haters put on Kobe: ego, selfishness, adultery etc ALl apply to MJ as well. Mj is the OG and Kobe is a copy. in some small ways Kobe is better in a lot of others MJ is far superior.

I just dont get why people that hate on Kobe for the reasons I stated love Mj so much ...

Plus Kobe has been far more publicly involved in charity and even some politics. Kobe is no Jim Brown I wish he would do more, but he aint Tiger or MJ either. Who hide behind their corporate personas and dont take a stand on shit.

Remember "Republicans, buy Jordan's too ..."

lefty
10-03-2011, 09:11 AM
J

I just dont get why people that hate on Kobe for the reasons I stated love Mj so much ...


For some reason, MJ can pull it off :lol

Giuseppe
10-03-2011, 09:18 AM
& because Bryant got what he wanted AFTER he raped.

That's powerful on both sides of the want.

Killakobe81
10-03-2011, 10:02 AM
For some reason, MJ can pull it off :lol

You may be right. Mj in his day was the definition of cool, Kobe is cool but his does come off more arrogant. But yet remember it was Mj who was "frozen" out of his first ASG ...

But for me being an asshole, which both MJ and Kobe "appear to be" ...that means jack-shit to me. They are both ballers and I appreciate them both. I was not an MJ fan in his prime. I rooted for the sonics as my 2nd favorite team ...and so wanted Kemp and GP (who i modeled my game after) to beat the 72 win Bulls. But, i actually preferred the post baseball version of MJ, because his skill and will had to win out, because he could not dominate physically anymore ...at least not like before. So i get that not everyone is going to root for or like Kobe, because I rooted against Kobe.

I just dont get why people get wrapped up in the personal stuff. That is the kind of shit females say. Shit I have heard various women say this recently about sports:

"I hate Floyd/Kobe/Lebron he is just soooo arrogant"

"I like Peyton Manning/Blake Griffin/Pacman, they seem so humble"

I dont give a shit who is humble who is not. All I ask from my athletes is that they dedicate themselves to their craft. And when they have the better team, they win more than they lose. All of those guys do that.

As a guy who roots for the "U", UCLA (alumnus), Lakers and Cowboys (and admired GP, Running Rebels etc.) I accept that great athletes are often egotistical pricks. Not all can be be David and Tim humble. Most great athletes aren't wired that way ...hence the MJ HOF speech ... LOL

cantthinkofanything
10-03-2011, 10:13 AM
You may be right. Mj in his day was the definition of cool, Kobe is cool but his does come off more arrogant. But yet remember it was Mj who was "frozen" out of his first ASG ...

But for me being an asshole, which both MJ and Kobe "appear to be" ...that means jack-shit to me. They are both ballers and I appreciate them both. I was not an MJ fan in his prime. I rooted for the sonics as my 2nd favorite team ...and so wanted Kemp and GP (who i modeled my game after) to beat the 72 win Bulls. But, i actually preferred the post baseball version of MJ, because his skill and will had to win out, because he could not dominate physically anymore ...at least not like before. So i get that not everyone is going to root for or like Kobe, because I rooted against Kobe.

I just dont get why people get wrapped up in the personal stuff. That is the kind of shit females say. Shit I have heard various women say this recently about sports:

"I hate Floyd/Kobe/Lebron he is just soooo arrogant"

"I like Peyton Manning/Blake Griffin/Pacman, they seem so humble"

I dont give a shit who is humble who is not. All I ask from my athletes is that they dedicate themselves to their craft. And when they have the better team, they win more than they lose. All of those guys do that.

As a guy who roots for the "U", UCLA (alumnus), Lakers and Cowboys (and admired GP, Running Rebels etc.) I accept that great athletes are often egotistical pricks. Not all can be be David and Tim humble. Most great athletes aren't wired that way ...hence the MJ HOF speech ... LOL

like to hear yourself talk much?

Killakobe81
10-03-2011, 01:03 PM
like to hear yourself talk much?

What did this comment contribute to this thread? Am I "wordy"? yes guilty as charged. You don't like, don't read. I dont contribute here for your benefit. But thanks for the kind words ...

DUNCANownsKOBE
10-03-2011, 01:15 PM
like to hear yourself talk much?
:lmao:lmao I've never seen a more gargantuan amount of irony before this post

cantthinkofanything
10-03-2011, 02:22 PM
What did this comment contribute to this thread? Am I "wordy"? yes guilty as charged. You don't like, don't read. I dont contribute here for your benefit. But thanks for the kind words ...

tl/dr